Daily Mirror Exclusive: Bambi Killer 19/10/2019

[Jane]

Why would adopted children be any different? 

Kaldin, as the saying goes, we have to walk in another's shoes to know how it feels to be them. Can you explain to me how it feels to NOT be adopted?

I think it's possible that ALL adopted children feel special. However, "special" is a huge spectrum ranging from adored at one end to being 'necessary' at the other and some overlapping around the middle. There are those would be parents who simply long for a child out of the basic need to be parents and will allow their child to develop in it's own way. These, imo, regardless of their income, probably make the best parents. Then there are the 'would be's' who believe a child will hold together a shaky relationship!!!! There are also those who want children for dynastic purposes and with scant regard for the child's wishes, encourage, guide, lead, push, coerce, force, blackmail them down the path they would have expected of their biological child. Whilst I'm not entirely suggesting such is deliberate, I AM suggesting there to be an element of entitlement, an expectation of gratitude, of pay-back. As few would be honest enough to voice such feelings out loud, currency, wrapped up to look like unfailing generosity, is frequently the carrot. Unless the child in question has it's own innate leanings towards the specified lifestyle, OR is prepared to subjugate it's own preferences to the wishes of it's parents, this can be a dilemma. Certainly, most won't resort to murder to gain, what they MAY feel they've earned -I believe a sense of entitlement has been leveled at Jeremy- but MANY may wish they were anywhere other than feeling trapped by duty.

[Kaldin]

Are you suggesting that Nevill and June adopted the children in order to have someone to carry on the family business?

It's really not clear to me how Jeremy felt about farming, or about working for his father. It's also not clear how he viewed Sheila - whether he thought of her as a sister or merely as someone who was in the way of his inheritance.

I just think that however Jeremy viewed his family, wanting the money isn't a sufficient motive for shooting all of them in cold blood.

[Jane]

Are you suggesting that Nevill and June adopted the children in order to have someone to carry on the family business?

It's really not clear to me how Jeremy felt about farming, or about working for his father. It's also not clear how he viewed Sheila - whether he thought of her as a sister or merely as someone who was in the way of his inheritance.

I just think that however Jeremy viewed his family, wanting the money isn't a sufficient motive for shooting all of them in cold blood.

I can't rule it out of the question, Kaldin. I'm not suggesting that they'd have done differently with biological children, but the whole point is that neither were and their own inclinations seem either to have been dismissed or not considered.

I think we must go back to when they were told of their adoption. They were quite old enough to recall it in later life. I can't imagine it didn't have a huge impact on them (I must add here, that my own mother claimed to have been told, by the adoption society, that "if you bring it!!! up like your own, it!!! will get to be like you!!!!) and it may just be that it was then that they began to realize that there might be other choices than the roads they were following? Was this the point at which Sheila started to disintegrate? -much is made of HER emotional and mental state. Are we really to believe Jeremy was unscathed?- I don't believe Sheila wanted to follow her mother's lifestyle choices anymore than Jeremy wanted to farm. Why do I believe Jeremy didn't want to farm? Do you not find it strange that he never attended Agg college? Have you never wondered why, during his forays to Australasia, he never tried any form of farming to gain some experience, instead, preferring to do bar work and maybe a few more dubious ways of earning? Have you never wondered why he preferred to work in a Little Chef on the A12, serve pizzas and colas in Sloppy Joe's, or work in a friend's wine bar rather than help out on the farm?

How did Jeremy and Sheila regard each other? I think it MAY have changed when their adoptions were revealed -imagine feeling entirely alone. That there was no one in your world who was related to you by blood- and there's the added point that on was told at a different time from the other meaning that one was holing an uncomfortable secret that couldn't be shared. I think there was probably some kudos for Jeremy when he could boast to others that his sister was a 'top' model, but I'll bet he wasn't as happy to share her attempts at secretarial work or hairdressing. I think he saw her as a financial encumbrance to his parents and I imagine he resented every penny they spent on her, allowing her to live in freedom -and I strongly believe she was trying to hold on to it at all costs, refusing parental offers of setting her up in business near to them- whilst he saw himself as having to work on the farm to assist with helping her to live her chosen lifestyle. Sibling rivalry, but they WEREN'T siblings. The only thing they shared was the fact that they were adopted into the same family. I think "the ties which bind" could have been very fragile.

[Kaldin]

Farming might not have been a passion for Jeremy, but did he really hate it that much? I suspect he didn't much like working for his father and would rather have been in charge telling others what to do. However, does that really amount to a feeling that there was no choice but to kill his entire family to get out of farming? There's no info as to whether he ever discussed his future with his father, or suggested any alternatives - like running the caravan park. Unless Nevill was a really unbending sort of person, surely he'd want his son to be happy.

As for Sheila, it's not known what causes schizophrenia. It's possible there was a genetic connection and that there was some kind of emotional trigger later on. I'm not convinced it would be caused by her upbringing though. I would think that some kind of depression would be more likely in that case.

[Jane]

Farming might not have been a passion for Jeremy, but did he really hate it that much? I suspect he didn't much like working for his father and would rather have been in charge telling others what to do. However, does that really amount to a feeling that there was no choice but to kill his entire family to get out of farming? There's no info as to whether he ever discussed his future with his father, or suggested any alternatives - like running the caravan park. Unless Nevill was a really unbending sort of person, surely he'd want his son to be happy.

As for Sheila, it's not known what causes schizophrenia. It's possible there was a genetic connection and that there was some kind of emotional trigger later on. I'm not convinced it would be caused by her upbringing though. I would think that some kind of depression would be more likely in that case.

I don't know that it's a question of Nevill being "unbending". I think it's more likely that he couldn't envisage any other way of life for Jeremy, than the one which he, Nevill, loved.

Re Sheila. It's not impossible that she was genetically disposed. She certainly had enough emotional triggers to choose from.

[lookout]

Sheila would have began her illness by sadly not initially showing the signs of PND as this is why it goes undiagnosed in hundreds of women until some years later. Undiagnosed and therefore untreated, it can and does lead to paranoia in a lot of cases and the longer it's left untreated the more difficult it becomes to manage. It's not unusual for the sufferer to turn to drugs and/or alcohol to mask how they're feeling and if this practice is overdone it exacerbates the original problem that the patient wasn't aware they already had until it becomes noticeable in others around them.
Depression would have been the onset of Sheila's illness.

[Kaldin]

I think there is a difference between neurosis and psychosis. A depressed person will often have terrible thoughts and beliefs, but they are generally aware that they're not really rooted in reality, and that it's not normal. A person with schizophrenia has less grasp on reality.

[Jane]

Sheila would have began her illness by sadly not initially showing the signs of PND as this is why it goes undiagnosed in hundreds of women until some years later. Undiagnosed and therefore untreated, it can and does lead to paranoia in a lot of cases and the longer it's left untreated the more difficult it becomes to manage. It's not unusual for the sufferer to turn to drugs and/or alcohol to mask how they're feeling and if this practice is overdone it exacerbates the original problem that the patient wasn't aware they already had until it becomes noticeable in others around them.
Depression would have been the onset of Sheila's illness.

Whilst you keep pushing PND, it's just as likely that the problem -depression- started when she was told of her adoption and soon after being sent to boarding school, there being nothing said of any previous behavioral problems. When are you suggesting this alleged PND set in? She was pregnant numerous times from the first termination in her teens, subsequent miscarriages, another termination and the eventual birth of twins. I can fully appreciate untreated depression/psych traumas resulting in any manner of mental disorders -and it's more than possible for suffers to self medicate when they feel low and not realizing that they're depressed- but I can't, as readily accept that mental disorders lead to depression.

[Kaldin]

Mental disorders can indeed lead to depression. Having something like schizophrenia can lead to depression, but can depression lead to schizophrenia?

Whatever Sheila had, it was serious enough for her to be hospitalised a few times. People with schizophrenia don't necessarily hurt or kill others, but as the delusions can be unpredicable, anything could happen. Sheila was on medication which should have controlled it, but I'm not sure to what extent.

[Jane]

Mental disorders can indeed lead to depression. Having something like schizophrenia can lead to depression, but can depression lead to schizophrenia?

Whatever Sheila had, it was serious enough for her to be hospitalised a few times. People with schizophrenia don't necessarily hurt or kill others, but as the delusions can be unpredicable, anything could happen. Sheila was on medication which should have controlled it, but I'm not sure to what extent.

Hardly a scientific study, I know, but the few schizophrenics I've known can only be described as troubled, which, of itself isn't necessarily depression. I can recall an aunt being diagnosed, and hospitalized, with, what they named as, a 'suspicion complex', ie she saw her 25 year old 'child's' father standing across from her house looking no different from when she'd last seen him, and swore that my father had been in her house because she could smell cigarettes. For the rest of her life she'd become fixated on strange ideas that there was no shifting her from. However, and with hindsight, I don't think anyone mentioned schizophrenia. The only medication she was on was for asthma.

[David1819]

Mental disorders can indeed lead to depression. Having something like schizophrenia can lead to depression, but can depression lead to schizophrenia?

Whatever Sheila had, it was serious enough for her to be hospitalised a few times. People with schizophrenia don't necessarily hurt or kill others, but as the delusions can be unpredicable, anything could happen. Sheila was on medication which should have controlled it, but I'm not sure to what extent.

More info on that here.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9527.0.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8439.0.html

[Caroline]

I think there is a difference between neurosis and psychosis. A depressed person will often have terrible thoughts and beliefs, but they are generally aware that they're not really rooted in reality, and that it's not normal. A person with schizophrenia has less grasp on reality.

The medication she was taking controls those thoughts. I have witnessed someone on Haloperidol and they simply couldn't function and they were on a low dose.

[Kaldin]

More info on that here.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9527.0.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8439.0.html

Thank you. I gather she had injections, so there was no question of her missing doses. I'm just wondering how well it controlled her symptoms.

[Caroline]

Thank you. I gather she had injections, so there was no question of her missing doses. I'm just wondering how well it controlled her symptoms.

No one mentions her having any symptoms and those that are mentioned were before the injections. She was found to still have a moderate dose of the drug in her system at autopsy.

[Reader]

. . . to arrive at the Tollesbury Road junction

The Tollesbury Road junction with which other road? Mike tesko posted a video of a previous journey he drove along most of Jeremy's route. Despite stopping to make some comments, his trip took only about 7 3/4 minutes if I remember correctly. He wasdn't going particularly slowly for the rest of the journey, but I doubt that he averaged as much as 45 mph.