Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?  (Read 155650 times)

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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1230 on: November 16, 2019, 04:15:PM »

He wasn't acquitted, anyway.

No, but she wouldn't have known that in advance.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1231 on: November 16, 2019, 04:16:PM »

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1232 on: November 16, 2019, 04:28:PM »

Online ngb1066

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1233 on: November 16, 2019, 04:31:PM »
So why, if she's guilty, did she come back to England to give evidence -albeit, she wasn't called?

Her attendance was required at the appeal by order of the Court of Appeal on the application by JB's legal team.  It would have been very difficult for her not to turn up.

Online ILB

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1234 on: November 16, 2019, 04:37:PM »
Her attendance was required at the appeal by order of the Court of Appeal on the application by JB's legal team.  It would have been very difficult for her not to turn up.
ngb, why did she have to attend, for what purpose? This wasn't a trial was it, Jeremy Bambers guilt had been proven 17 years previously. I have never heard of previous witnesses at a trial being called at appeals to give evidence. As we're always led to believe that appeals are heard when new evidence comes to light. Why did Jeremy's team request an attendance order ?
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Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1235 on: November 16, 2019, 04:40:PM »
Her attendance was required at the appeal by order of the Court of Appeal on the application by JB's legal team.  It would have been very difficult for her not to turn up.


Thank-you for the clarification, NGB. Unless her flight was paid for -which may have imposed some restrictions- I suppose she could have used the time to visit relatives and saved what could have been an appalling waste of money whoever footed the bill.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1236 on: November 16, 2019, 04:45:PM »
Her attendance was required at the appeal by order of the Court of Appeal on the application by JB's legal team.  It would have been very difficult for her not to turn up.

Ah, thank you. I didn't know if she was required to attend or not.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1237 on: November 16, 2019, 04:48:PM »
ngb, why did she have to attend, for what purpose? This wasn't a trial was it, Jeremy Bambers guilt had been proven 17 years previously. I have never heard of previous witnesses at a trial being called at appeals to give evidence. As we're always led to believe that appeals are heard when new evidence comes to light. Why did Jeremy's team request an attendance order ?

Her story was part of the appeal though. Ground 4 dealt with the timing of the call to Julie, and ground 5 dealt with her credibility,

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1238 on: November 16, 2019, 05:23:PM »
Julie was called to the appeal, but didn't have to testify in the end.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1239 on: November 16, 2019, 05:23:PM »
I do wonder what Jeremy thinks of Julie. His spokesperson doesn't mention her much, and Jeremy's anger seems to be reserved for the police and his relatives.

If he's guilty, he must have been hopping mad that he was convicted and that she got got away with it. Like I said, I think he perceived her to be some kind of accomplice. She got away with the burglary, the cheque fraud, and the drug dealing. Not only that, but she got paid a lot of money by the NOTW. She went on to travel the world, and got herself a nice husband, family, and job.

If he's innocent, how must he feel about her story? She helped put him in prison all this time!

He doesn't say much about her but he has referred to her as 'Julie Mugshot'.
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Online ngb1066

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1240 on: November 16, 2019, 06:46:PM »
ngb, why did she have to attend, for what purpose? This wasn't a trial was it, Jeremy Bambers guilt had been proven 17 years previously. I have never heard of previous witnesses at a trial being called at appeals to give evidence. As we're always led to believe that appeals are heard when new evidence comes to light. Why did Jeremy's team request an attendance order ?

Before the appeal was heard there were various applications to the Court of Appeal in relation to evidence to be presented and witnesses to attend.  This second appeal was essentially based upon new evidence.  Although the CCRC had only referred the case on very limited grounds, the defence, as they were entitled to do, added a number of additional grounds.  One aspect they wish to raise was the firm information received by the defence long after the original trial that Julie Mugford had concluded a deal with the News of the World before the trial, contrary to what she had informed the trial judge via the police during the trial.  The defence wanted to challenge Julie Mugford about this in cross examination.
 
At the start of the appeal the defence applied for an order that JM's solicitor should be ordered to disclose documents relating to the contract with the News of the World.  For some reason the Court refused this application.  The prosecution had obtained a fresh statement from JM about the NOW deal shortly before the appeal hearing.  Because of the refusal of the application it would not have been possible for the defence to challenge what JM said in that statement.  She was therefore not called to give evidence at the appeal.

There is now new firm evidence about this and I do know that if the 2012 CCRC application had succeeded a fresh application would have been made to the Court of Appeal for JM to attend, as this time she could have been cross examined on the matter.

   

Online ngb1066

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1241 on: November 16, 2019, 06:47:PM »

Thank-you for the clarification, NGB. Unless her flight was paid for -which may have imposed some restrictions- I suppose she could have used the time to visit relatives and saved what could have been an appalling waste of money whoever footed the bill.

Her flight and other expenses were paid from public funds.


Online ILB

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1242 on: November 16, 2019, 06:50:PM »
Before the appeal was heard there were various applications to the Court of Appeal in relation to evidence to be presented and witnesses to attend.  This second appeal was essentially based upon new evidence.  Although the CCRC had only referred the case on very limited grounds, the defence, as they were entitled to do, added a number of additional grounds.  One aspect they wish to raise was the firm information received by the defence long after the original trial that Julie Mugford had concluded a deal with the News of the World before the trial, contrary to what she had informed the trial judge via the police during the trial.  The defence wanted to challenge Julie Mugford about this in cross examination.
 
At the start of the appeal the defence applied for an order that JM's solicitor should be ordered to disclose documents relating to the contract with the News of the World.  For some reason the Court refused this application.  The prosecution had obtained a fresh statement from JM about the NOW deal shortly before the appeal hearing.  Because of the refusal of the application it would not have been possible for the defence to challenge what JM said in that statement.  She was therefore not called to give evidence at the appeal.

There is now new firm evidence about this and I do know that if the 2012 CCRC application had succeeded a fresh application would have been made to the Court of Appeal for JM to attend, as this time she could have been cross examined on the matter.

 
thank you for clarifying that. Can I ask, off the record your opinion on the chances of a third appeal for Jeremy Bamber? I have always felt the strongest aspect of the case against him was the silencer evidence...
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Online ILB

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1243 on: November 16, 2019, 07:00:PM »
Before the appeal was heard there were various applications to the Court of Appeal in relation to evidence to be presented and witnesses to attend.  This second appeal was essentially based upon new evidence.  Although the CCRC had only referred the case on very limited grounds, the defence, as they were entitled to do, added a number of additional grounds.  One aspect they wish to raise was the firm information received by the defence long after the original trial that Julie Mugford had concluded a deal with the News of the World before the trial, contrary to what she had informed the trial judge via the police during the trial.  The defence wanted to challenge Julie Mugford about this in cross examination.
 
At the start of the appeal the defence applied for an order that JM's solicitor should be ordered to disclose documents relating to the contract with the News of the World.  For some reason the Court refused this application.  The prosecution had obtained a fresh statement from JM about the NOW deal shortly before the appeal hearing.  Because of the refusal of the application it would not have been possible for the defence to challenge what JM said in that statement.  She was therefore not called to give evidence at the appeal.

There is now new firm evidence about this and I do know that if the 2012 CCRC application had succeeded a fresh application would have been made to the Court of Appeal for JM to attend, as this time she could have been cross examined on the matter.

 
if mugford lied to justice drake about the notw aspect. Why did she not face criminal proceedings?
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?
« Reply #1244 on: November 16, 2019, 08:19:PM »
Julie wasn't on her way out at the time of the shootings. In fact, I'd say that Jeremy was pretty devoted to her. After all, she lived in London, but he made the effort to see her, and he seemed quite dependent on her in some ways. It's a mystery to me why he ended the relationship.
To add to #1176 he was still on the rebound from Suzette, mentioning her to Andy and Karen Bishop during the Eastbourne trip. He told Charles Marsden he was going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move into Moreshead Mansions with Brett and Virginia. He thought he could buy off Julie with the offer of a wine bar.