Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:48:PM

Title: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:48:PM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 05, 2018, 07:12:PM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...
This will probably remain a mystery. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,580.0.html
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 06, 2018, 02:41:AM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...

This could be another reason why the upstairs bathroom light was found on when they arrived.  She used it to wash her hands and/or put this plaster on.

If Jeremy had a recent injury like this one we wouldn’t hear the end of it.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 07, 2018, 03:10:PM
This could be another reason why the upstairs bathroom light was found on when they arrived.  She used it to wash her hands and/or put this plaster on.

If Jeremy had a recent injury like this one we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 03:41:PM
So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)

But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 07, 2018, 04:03:PM
So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)

Nothing far fetched given her mental state. Don’t have to literally be “just before” either.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 07, 2018, 05:01:PM
Nothing far fetched given her mental state. Don’t have to literally be “just before” either.

Or at all - means nothing and she was on medication.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 07, 2018, 05:58:PM
But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..

Why did Sheila stalk Nevill and wait for him to realise the other had been shot Mike ?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 06:34:PM
Why did Sheila stalk Nevill and wait for him to realise the other had been shot Mike ?

Adam, I am as convinced as I can be, that Neville Bamber was not present inside the farmhouse when June and her two grandchildren were shot to bits, and killed...

In this narrative, Sheila would have easily been able to dispatch her two young sons, and her adoptive mother..

If Sheila was the shooter, that just left her to deal with Neville Bamber, which was a different proposition, altogether...

She had to set a trap, and wait for Neville not only to return to the farmhouse at around midnight, or later, but she had to make sure that whenever he stumbled upon her handy work, that he could not raise the alarm immediately! In this respect, I believe that Sheila unplugged the bedroom telephone as part of her strategy, so that when Neville discovered the awful truth that he could not raise the alarm from the main bedroom, but that he would need to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to alert, Jeremy and the police...

One thing looks a certainty and that was that in order to discover the awful truth concerning the loss of life in the case of his wife (June) and his two grandchildren (Daniel and Nicholas), Neville had to be upstairs in either bedroom, and that the shooter lay in wait for him at that time, to make his way toward one or the other two phone points in the farmhouse (upstairs office or kitchen). All Sheila had to do was conceal herself behind her own bedroom door, or the latched door at the top of the spiral stair case, and wait for the moment that Neville came back out onto the top landing from the main bedroom!

Of course, timing would have played a vital role in whether or not Neville was able to avoid or escape the interest of the shooter, and based on what is now known it appears that Neville was provisionally successful in making his way all the way down to the kitchen, arguably only being shot once on his way down the main stairs!

Once downstairs in the kitchen, and with Neville alerting Jeremy and the police by 3.26am, it then became an issue of an armed Sheila versus a wounded Neville Bamber - I don't buy into the claim that there was any struggle between Sheila and Neville over the possession of the loaded .22 anshuzt rifle. This is because, any struggle that took place in the kitchen invariably involved a fight over the possession of the 12 bore shotgun, which scratched the kitchen mantelpiece...

Exactly when such a struggle took place, is another issue..

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 06:57:PM
But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..

Please don't ignore the available evidence which places Sheila's body (a dead female) elsewhere, other than on the main bedroom floor, recorded in the police files - a female body in the Laundry room sighted through the Laundry room window before the firearms team entered the premises! The dead female found in the kitchen upon entry by the firearm officers, at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, the fact that by 7.45am only two bodies had been found, one dead male, one dead female, the two deaths being referred to back in the  control room as  a murder, and a suicide, and of course, the fact that by 8.10am, only a further three bodies found upstairs, at a time when all five bodies had been confirmed as being dead, two bodies downstairs, three bodies upstairs. Sheila's body upstairs on the far side of the bed (8.44am), Sheila's body laid on top of the bed with a Bible on her chest (9.05am), to her body ending up on the main bedroom floor by 9.30am...

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:04:PM
We can't keep letting Essex police off the hook with the excuse that they made mistake after mistake!!!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:05:PM
We can't keep letting Essex police off the hook with the excuse that they made mistake after mistake!!!

Honest law abiding cops don't make the kind of mistakes Essex police keep claiming that they made!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:06:PM
The keystone cops would have done a much better job than that handled by Essex police!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:12:PM
The keystone cops would have done a much better job than that handled by Essex police!

I have never before been involved in or known about so many exhibits having exhibit references altered from this to that, or the fact that a police investigation had at least two (but possibly several other) crime reference numbers associated with or to it!

But..

This has occurred in the prosecution of Jeremy Bamber as the killer of his family, in particular the murder of his sister!!

Something is very seriously wrong here, and it doesn't stop with Essex police. Since the CPS, the Judiciary, the Home Secretary, and the appellate court are all deeply involved in this deception - none of them are fit for purpose, the lot of them all common low life criminals, in other words a modern day version of the Nazi's...

Awful, despicable mob!!!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 07, 2018, 07:53:PM
Adam, I am as convinced as I can be, that Neville Bamber was not present inside the farmhouse when June and her two grandchildren were shot to bits, and killed...

In this narrative, Sheila would have easily been able to dispatch her two young sons, and her adoptive mother..

If Sheila was the shooter, that just left her to deal with Neville Bamber, which was a different proposition, altogether...

She had to set a trap, and wait for Neville not only to return to the farmhouse at around midnight, or later, but she had to make sure that whenever he stumbled upon her handy work, that he could not raise the alarm immediately! In this respect, I believe that Sheila unplugged the bedroom telephone as part of her strategy, so that when Neville discovered the awful truth that he could not raise the alarm from the main bedroom, but that he would need to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to alert, Jeremy and the police...

One thing looks a certainty and that was that in order to discover the awful truth concerning the loss of life in the case of his wife (June) and his two grandchildren (Daniel and Nicholas), Neville had to be upstairs in either bedroom, and that the shooter lay in wait for him at that time, to make his way toward one or the other two phone points in the farmhouse (upstairs office or kitchen). All Sheila had to do was conceal herself behind her own bedroom door, or the latched door at the top of the spiral stair case, and wait for the moment that Neville came back out onto the top landing from the main bedroom!

Of course, timing would have played a vital role in whether or not Neville was able to avoid or escape the interest of the shooter, and based on what is now known it appears that Neville was provisionally successful in making his way all the way down to the kitchen, arguably only being shot once on his way down the main stairs!

Once downstairs in the kitchen, and with Neville alerting Jeremy and the police by 3.26am, it then became an issue of an armed Sheila versus a wounded Neville Bamber - I don't buy into the claim that there was any struggle between Sheila and Neville over the possession of the loaded .22 anshuzt rifle. This is because, any struggle that took place in the kitchen invariably involved a fight over the possession of the 12 bore shotgun, which scratched the kitchen mantelpiece...

Exactly when such a struggle took place, is another issue..

Thanks Mike.

If Sheila was waiting for Nevill to return, when did Nevill make his phone calls ?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 09:32:AM
Thanks Mike.

If Sheila was waiting for Nevill to return, when did Nevill make his phone calls ?

Between 3.15am (to Jeremy) and 3.30am ( to the police)...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 08, 2018, 01:08:PM
Between 3.15am (to Jeremy) and 3.30am ( to the police)...

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:42:PM
I understand that June and Sheila had been involved in an altercation earlier in the day on the last day they both lived on planet earth, Sheila thumped June and gave her a black eye, and during the incident Sheila fell against a piece of furniture and grazed herself. Jeremy told me about the black eye that his mum had, first noticed by him when he returned to the farmhouse at around supper time. He didn't know how his mum (June) received the black eye, but he told me he believed she got it during a squabble of sorts with Sheila earlier in the day. He didn't know that Sheila had got a graze on her body, or that this was covered by a plaster, until he subsequently received a copy of the pathologists hand written notes..

You only have to take into account what the farm secretary said when she spoke to Neville Bamber at about 9.30pm on that last Tuesday evening, where she says she got the impression because of Neville's abrupt tone of voice, that she had called at a bad time, and that she might have interrupted some sort of an argument amongst the family at that time! Link this to what Pamela Boutflour stated in her witness statement where she tells of her sister June mentioning that Sheila had been behaving oddly, and that June had intended to bring Sheila and the twins round for tea on the following day, so that Pamela could take a close look at Sheila! In addition, not to be overlooked was the fact that Tuesday evening was June Bambers weekly Bible class, which for some reason June gave a miss...

Jeremy had told of a one sided debate between his parents and Sheila concerning Sheila's inability to look after her two children and herself properly, and that there was talk about trying to get Sheila some help involving carers, or foster parents, and talk about sending Sheila to a rest home in the Bournemouth area, etc...

I have looked at what everyone has said and insofar as the farm secretary feeling that Neville Bamber was a bit abrupt when she spoke to him at 9.30pm, that Tuesday evening, I think this could have been because of the problems they (the parents) were having with Sheila, but also because Jeremy left the farmhouse at about the same time, and the fact that Neville had to take the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed..

I sense that Neville might have been annoyed that Jeremy couldn't do that last run!

I have never asked Jeremy, why he told the farm workers in the fields, that Neville Bamber would be along to collect the last trailor load of rape seed!

Then...

There is the fact that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the tractor overnight (the South African) - my query, is if Neville Bamber took the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed, how come Ralph Neville ended up with the said tractor?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:56:PM
I guess, Neville Bamber walked it back to white house farm, and for whatever reason let Ralph Neville take the tractor and trailor to take back to Osea Road Caravan Park, despite the fact that his mobile home (vehicle) was parked up near the barns at whf overnight?

On the following morning, Ralph Neville drove the tractor and trailor up Pages Lane intending to deposit the harvest of rape seed, only to be turned away..

Within the hour, Ralph Neville was the hitchhiker who was thumbing a lift to the nearest port, intending to flee the UK! He left behind his mobile home, parked up at the scene. He told the local resident who gave him a lift from nearby Goldhanger that he had been staying with a farming family who had all been found shot dead...

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:58:PM
I guess, Neville Bamber walked it back to white house farm, and for whatever reason let Ralph Neville take the tractor and trailor to take back to Osea Road Caravan Park, despite the fact that his mobile home (vehicle) was parked up near the barns at whf overnight?

On the following morning, Ralph Neville drove the tractor and trailor up Pages Lane intending to deposit the harvest of rape seed, only to be turned away..

Within the hour, Ralph Neville was the hitchhiker who was thumbing a lift to the nearest port, intending to flee the UK! He left behind his mobile home, parked up at the scene. He told the local resident who gave him a lift from nearby Goldhanger that he had been staying with a farming family who had all been found shot dead...
From a personal viewpoint, I think there could be a link between Ralph Neville and the shooting dead of the family, maybe he was Sheila's accomplice?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:00:PM
From a personal viewpoint, I think there could be a link between Ralph Neville and the shooting dead of the family, maybe he was Sheila's accomplice?

Maybe, he was the scruffy looking hunched man, who according to Kim Sengupta ( journalist for Daily Express back in the day) was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after police first arrived there?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 06:02:PM
I understand that June and Sheila had been involved in an altercation earlier in the day on the last day they both lived on planet earth, Sheila thumped June and gave her a black eye, and during the incident Sheila fell against a piece of furniture and grazed herself. Jeremy told me about the black eye that his mum had, first noticed by him when he returned to the farmhouse at around supper time. He didn't know how his mum (June) received the black eye, but he told me he believed she got it during a squabble of sorts with Sheila earlier in the day. He didn't know that Sheila had got a graze on her body, or that this was covered by a plaster, until he subsequently received a copy of the pathologists hand written notes..

You only have to take into account what the farm secretary said when she spoke to Neville Bamber at about 9.30pm on that last Tuesday evening, where she says she got the impression because of Neville's abrupt tone of voice, that she had called at a bad time, and that she might have interrupted some sort of an argument amongst the family at that time! Link this to what Pamela Boutflour stated in her witness statement where she tells of her sister June mentioning that Sheila had been behaving oddly, and that June had intended to bring Sheila and the twins round for tea on the following day, so that Pamela could take a close look at Sheila! In addition, not to be overlooked was the fact that Tuesday evening was June Bambers weekly Bible class, which for some reason June gave a miss...

Jeremy had told of a one sided debate between his parents and Sheila concerning Sheila's inability to look after her two children and herself properly, and that there was talk about trying to get Sheila some help involving carers, or foster parents, and talk about sending Sheila to a rest home in the Bournemouth area, etc...

I have looked at what everyone has said and insofar as the farm secretary feeling that Neville Bamber was a bit abrupt when she spoke to him at 9.30pm, that Tuesday evening, I think this could have been because of the problems they (the parents) were having with Sheila, but also because Jeremy left the farmhouse at about the same time, and the fact that Neville had to take the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed..

I sense that Neville might have been annoyed that Jeremy couldn't do that last run!

I have never asked Jeremy, why he told the farm workers in the fields, that Neville Bamber would be along to collect the last trailor load of rape seed!

Then...

There is the fact that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the tractor overnight (the South African) - my query, is if Neville Bamber took the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed, how come Ralph Neville ended up with the said tractor?
This is a mixture of fact intertwined with fiction. There's no doubt that Sheila and June had had differences of opinion in the past, but Sheila had rarely if ever raised objections to her mother's face, preferring to parry any attack by confiding in others. A physical assault by either of them would be unprecedented; indeed this had been part of the trouble in the upbringing of both Jeremy and Sheila as they were left to their own devices by parents who never reacted to any bad behaviour on their part.

It's perfectly possible that faced with the reality of day to day living with Sheila her parents realized that looking after herself, let alone two growing boys was too much of a strain on their daughter and Nevill may have been angry that the workload was falling on his wife that week, hence June's suggestion that Sheila stay in a Bournemouth hotel and the ill-feeling in the house that evening. One also recalls Julie's statement that it was Jeremy himself who broached the subject of adoption of the twins in an attempt to sow discord amongst those gathered in the kitchen on the Tuesday evening.

As far as the bible class is concerned Audrey Childs made a witness statement to the fact that June had already told her aunt Connie Lugg that she would not be attending that night.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:03:PM
It is somewhat puzzling that Neville Bamber went to the fields after 9.30pm that Tuesday evening, intent on collecting the last trailor load of rape seed, but that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the same overnight?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:12:PM

As far as the bible class is concerned Audrey Childs made a witness statement to the fact that June had already told her aunt Connie Lugg that she would not be attending that night.

Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:15:PM
Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...

From recollection, Sheila had been insisting the employee should get off her land, get away from her farm, and stop spying on her, etc, etc, etc, she was swearing and cursing...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 06:22:PM
Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...

There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books. As far as the other members of the bible class is concerned maybe they just weren't kept in the loop.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 08, 2018, 08:54:PM
There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books.

Andrew Hunter has.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 09:51:PM
There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books. As far as the other members of the bible class is concerned maybe they just weren't kept in the loop.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 09:58:PM
Andrew Hunter has.
He jumped on the bandwagon like George Galloway, Eric Allison, Peter Tatchell and others.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 10:19:PM
He jumped on the bandwagon like George Galloway, Eric Allison, Peter Tatchell and others.

It doesn't matter what any of them say, there is no mystery - Bamber himself has stated that June's aunt Connie Lugg told the bible class that June wouldn't be there because Sheila and the twins were visiting. They 'ALL' knew.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 05:35:AM
A number of police action reports contained in the police file  tell of class members being puzzled by June Bambers absence from Bible class that Tuesday evening!