Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 05:58:PM

Title: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 05:58:PM


 Adam makes the point that if Sheila did have a shower after the massacre then where did her blood stained clothes end up after her shower ?

 This has got me thinking - what clothes was Sheila wearing that evening ?

 And whatever happened that night - where did those clothes end up ?

 Can anyone shed any light on this ?

 
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 05:59:PM

 Adam makes the point that if Sheila did have a shower after the massacre then where did her blood stained clothes end up after her shower ?

 This has got me thinking - what clothes was Sheila wearing that evening ?

 And whatever happened that night - where did those clothes end up ?

Can anyone shed any light on this ?

Jeremy
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 06:01:PM
This has got me thinking - what clothes was Sheila wearing that evening ?

Light blue nightdress



And whatever happened that night - where did those clothes end up ?


On her body.



Can anyone shed any light on this ?


Done.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:07:PM
Light blue nightdress


On her body.


Done.

I know she was found in a light blue night dress in the morning ...

But surely she was not wearing the night dress at supper time the evening before ?

My question is what clothes was she wearing at suppertime the evening before ?

And what happened to those clothes ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 06:09:PM

 Adam makes the point that if Sheila did have a shower after the massacre then where did her blood stained clothes end up after her shower ?

 This has got me thinking - what clothes was Sheila wearing that evening ?

 And whatever happened that night - where did those clothes end up ?

 Can anyone shed any light on this ?





A pair of damp leggings/jeggings hanging over the bannister and a top with her drawers soaking in a bucket. Before she'd bathed/showered later,then her nightdress.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:09:PM
Jeremy

If Jeremy had done it then he would not have taken Sheilas clothes away with him - would he ?

If Sheila did it then Jeremy was not there to take Sheilas clothes was he ?

So where did Sheilas clothes end up ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:11:PM




A pair of damp leggings/jeggings hanging over the bannister and a top with her drawers soaking in a bucket. Before she'd bathed/showered later,then her nightdress.

Do you think she was wearing those leggings and that top at supper the evening before ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 06:11:PM
If Jeremy had done it then he would not have taken Sheilas clothes away with him - would he ?

If Sheila did it then Jeremy was not there to take Sheilas clothes was he ?

So where did Sheilas clothes end up ?

In the room she was staying in, together with her other personal possessions maybe?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 06:12:PM
Are there some clothes on the second bed in her bedroom? I can't see close enough.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:14:PM
Are there some clothes on the second bed in her bedroom? I can't see close enough.

Yes
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:15:PM
In the room she was staying in, together with her other personal possessions maybe?

Most households have a system for dirty clothes ...

What was the system at the Farm ?

Did each bedroom have a basket for dirty clothes ?

Are any clothes or basket visible in photos of Sheilas room ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:16:PM
.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:17:PM
Yes

Thank you ...

What clothes are in the photo ?

Can anyone tell what they are ?

Was these the clothes Sheila was wearing at supper the evening before ?

Personally I cannot see June letting dirty clothes sit around the house for more than 24 hours ...

I might be wrong about that - but that is my impression of June ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 06:17:PM
Most households have a system for dirty clothes ...

What was the system at the Farm ?

Did each bedroom have a basket for dirty clothes ?

Are any clothes or basket visible in photos of Sheilas room ?

I've no idea, but Sheila and the boys were staying for a few days, presumably they arrived with spare clothes and toiletries etc?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:21:PM
Have you got a link to the photo you are referring to  please ?

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=34126)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 06:23:PM
In the room she was staying in, together with her other personal possessions maybe?

Mike T may know

I'm surprised none of Bambers supporters appear to have bothered to ask him directly in order to establish what clothes Sheila was wearing that night round the dinner table

But NOT surprised Bamber has kept schtum  ::)

Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:25:PM
I've no idea, but Sheila and the boys were staying for a few days, presumably they arrived with spare clothes and toiletries etc?

I am sure they turned up with enough clothes for the whole trip ....

I am assuming the clothes in the photo had been worn and needed washing ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 06:25:PM
Do you think she was wearing those leggings and that top at supper the evening before ?






Yes I do. It's not really the done thing to wear nightwear at the dinner/supper table.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:27:PM
Mike T may know

I'm surprised none of Bambers supporters appear to have bothered to ask him directly in order to establish what clothes Sheila was wearing that night round the dinner table

But NOT surprised Bamber has kept schtum  ::)

I too am wondering if Jeremy has ever been asked what clothes Sheila was wearing when he last saw her ?

If not maybe he should be asked ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:28:PM
I too am wondering if Jeremy has ever been asked what clothes Sheila was wearing when he last saw her ?

If not maybe he should be asked ?

The guy in the clothes shop made a description of what she worse that day - if I remember rightly?  :-\
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:29:PM





Yes I do. It's not really the done thing to wear nightwear at the dinner/supper table.

I agree it is very unlikely Sheila was wearing a nightdress at supper at the Farm ...

The question is - was she wearing the leggings and top ?

Or was she wearing the clothes seen in the photo on the bed ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 06:29:PM
I too am wondering if Jeremy has ever been asked what clothes Sheila was wearing when he last saw her ?

If not maybe he should be asked ?

We could have another walletgate on our hands. He still hasn't had the common courtesy to set the record straight with Caroline. Don't hold your breath Sherlock
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:31:PM
We could have another walletgate on our hands. He still hasn't had the common courtesy to set the record straight with Caroline. Don't hold your breath Sherlock

Perhaps someone who writes to him can ask?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 06:34:PM
Perhaps someone who writes to him can ask?

An INNOCENT man would have addressed this long before now, as you know Caroline

I'm in no doubt someone will have already spoken to him about it and it's probably why you STILL get so much flack for  ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 06:37:PM
I too am wondering if Jeremy has ever been asked what clothes Sheila was wearing when he last saw her ?

If not maybe he should be asked ?

Bit late in the day for that Sherlock he' ll say he can't remember
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 06:39:PM
I am sure they turned up with enough clothes for the whole trip ....

I am assuming the clothes in the photo had been worn and needed washing ...

I don't know about that. They weren't staying long so they wouldn't necessarily wash their clothes there, or use that many.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 06:39:PM
I too am wondering if Jeremy has ever been asked what clothes Sheila was wearing when he last saw her ?

If not maybe he should be asked ?

What relevance to you attach to what she wore during the day?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:40:PM
The guy in the clothes shop made a description of what she worse that day - if I remember rightly?  :-\

What clothes shop ?

Had she been shopping that day ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2017, 06:41:PM
An INNOCENT man would have addressed this long before now, as you know Caroline

I'm in no doubt someone will have already spoken to him about it and it's probably why you STILL get so much flack for  ::)

They can shoot as much flack as they like ........ I KNOW the truth and they can't handle it!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 06:42:PM
I don't know about that. They weren't staying long so they wouldn't necessarily wash their clothes there, or use that many.

I was thinking the same. Why wouldn't she just take things home to wash?

Then again, there were some items in soak.  :-\
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 06:42:PM
Thank you ...

What clothes are in the photo ?

Can anyone tell what they are ?

Was these the clothes Sheila was wearing at supper the evening before ?

Personally I cannot see June letting dirty clothes sit around the house for more than 24 hours ...

I might be wrong about that - but that is my impression of June ...

Not sure where you are going with this Sherlock?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: guest154 on October 08, 2017, 06:44:PM
I was thinking the same. Why wouldn't she just take things home to wash?

Then again, there were some items in soak.  :-\

" What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening." I'm not sure it's important, but it's something that I've not seen brought up before, is a little interesting and "new" so got to give it that. I always assumed it was the bucket items.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 06:50:PM
I was thinking the same. Why wouldn't she just take things home to wash?

Then again, there were some items in soak. :-\

That was a bit different, but it's still a bit odd.

Maybe she was intending to take things home to wash - nobody will ever know really.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:54:PM
Not sure where you are going with this Sherlock?

There was a lot of blood all over the farm house ....

There was a fair amount of blood on the Bible ...

There was at least a "smear" of blood on at least one of Sheilas fingers ...

The above should be facts agreed by every body ....


I believe Sheila had a shower at some point that evening or night ....

Why take dirty clothes off and put a clean night dress on if she had not had a shower first ?

So I want to work out at what point she had a shower - was it :

1) Before supper ?

2) Before the shootings ?

3) After 4 of the shootings ?


Also even if it appears to lead nowhere or to be irrelevant I think every unanswered question in this case should be answered - the nearer to having all the facts the nearer the truth we will be ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 06:58:PM
There was a lot of blood all over the farm house ....

There was a fair amount of blood on the Bible ...

There was at least a "smear" of blood on at least one of Sheilas fingers ...

The above should be facts agreed by every body ....


I believe Sheila had a shower at some point that evening or night ....

Why take dirty clothes off and put a clean night dress on if she had not had a shower first ?

So I want to work out at what point she had a shower - was it :

1) Before supper ?

2) Before the shootings ?

3) After 4 of the shootings ?


Also even if it appears to lead nowhere or to be irrelevant I think every unanswered question in this case should be answered - the nearer to having all the facts the nearer the truth we will be ...

Why a shower and not a bath?

Not that I know whether she had either.  :-\
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 06:58:PM
What clothes shop ?

Had she been shopping that day ?

She'd been into Tiptree that afternoon with her mother and the boys. Her mother wanted to buy trousers for them. They went to a small, now defunct haberdashers where the owner described Sheila as being disinterested.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 06:59:PM
There was a lot of blood all over the farm house ....

There was a fair amount of blood on the Bible ...

There was at least a "smear" of blood on at least one of Sheilas fingers ...

The above should be facts agreed by every body ....


I believe Sheila had a shower at some point that evening or night ....

Why take dirty clothes off and put a clean night dress on if she had not had a shower first ?

So I want to work out at what point she had a shower - was it :

1) Before supper ?

2) Before the shootings ?

3) After 4 of the shootings ?


Also even if it appears to lead nowhere or to be irrelevant I think every unanswered question in this case should be answered - the nearer to having all the facts the nearer the truth we will be ...

Although far from conclusive if it was the clothes in soak she was wearing then it makes it more likely it was Sheila - if it was the clothes on the bed then I think it makes it less likely ...

This is because if the clothes on the bed had obvious blood stains then that would have been noticed and they would have been presented in evidence ...

So my assumption is that the clothes on the bed did not have blood stains on them ...

And the ones in soak possibly did ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 07:00:PM
There was a lot of blood all over the farm house ....

There was a fair amount of blood on the Bible ...

There was at least a "smear" of blood on at least one of Sheilas fingers ...

The above should be facts agreed by every body ....


I believe Sheila had a shower at some point that evening or night ....

Why take dirty clothes off and put a clean night dress on if she had not had a shower first ?

So I want to work out at what point she had a shower - was it :

1) Before supper ?

2) Before the shootings ?

3) After 4 of the shootings ?


Also even if it appears to lead nowhere or to be irrelevant I think every unanswered question in this case should be answered - the nearer to having all the facts the nearer the truth we will be ...

I'd speak to Mike T if I were you he's bound to have established your points decades ago. He'll probably have a letter or will be able to tell you from memory
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 07:00:PM
Although far from conclusive if it was the clothes in soak she was wearing then it makes it more likely it was Sheila - if it was the clothes on the bed then I think it makes it less likely ...

This is because if the clothes on the bed had obvious blood stains then that would have been noticed and they would have been presented in evidence ...

So my assumption is that the clothes on the bed did not have blood stains on them ...

And the ones in soak possibly did ...

I don't think there was a full outfit in soak.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:00:PM
Why a shower and not a bath?

Not that I know whether she had either.  :-\

Does any one know if there even was a bath in the Farm ?

I have heard evidence there was a shower ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 07:01:PM
There was a lot of blood all over the farm house ....

There was a fair amount of blood on the Bible ...

There was at least a "smear" of blood on at least one of Sheilas fingers ...

The above should be facts agreed by every body ....


I believe Sheila had a shower at some point that evening or night ....

Why take dirty clothes off and put a clean night dress on if she had not had a shower first ?

So I want to work out at what point she had a shower - was it :

1) Before supper ?

2) Before the shootings ?

3) After 4 of the shootings ?


Also even if it appears to lead nowhere or to be irrelevant I think every unanswered question in this case should be answered - the nearer to having all the facts the nearer the truth we will be ...

Why do you think she must have had a shower that night? There's no reason why her clothes would be dirty, or why she shouldn't just take them off and put on a nightdress. Maybe she had a shower in the morning, or maybe she didn't have one that day.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 07:02:PM
Does any one know if there even was a bath in the Farm ?

I have heard evidence there was a shower ...

Again, Mike T's your man for this
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 07:02:PM
Does any one know if there even was a bath in the Farm ?

I have heard evidence there was a shower ...

Yes, upstairs at the end of the landing.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:02:PM
Although far from conclusive if it was the clothes in soak she was wearing then it makes it more likely it was Sheila - if it was the clothes on the bed then I think it makes it less likely ...

This is because if the clothes on the bed had obvious blood stains then that would have been noticed and they would have been presented in evidence ...

So my assumption is that the clothes on the bed did not have blood stains on them ...

And the ones in soak possibly did ...

FFS! How many more times! There were TWO PAIRS of bloodied knickers in soak. How does that make her a murderer.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 07:03:PM
Does any one know if there even was a bath in the Farm ?

I have heard evidence there was a shower ...

I would have thought there would be a bath. A lot of people didn't even have a shower in the '80s.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:03:PM
I'd speak to Mike T if I were you he's bound to have established your points decades ago. He'll probably have a letter or will be able to tell you from memory

Hopefully he will enlighten us in this very thread if he is in a position to ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 07:04:PM
Yes, upstairs at the end of the landing.

Cheers Hartley forgot you'd be able to answer this
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 07:06:PM
Hopefully he will enlighten us in this very thread if he is in a position to ...

You could always PM him otherwise
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:08:PM
I agree it is very unlikely Sheila was wearing a nightdress at supper at the Farm ...

The question is - was she wearing the leggings and top ?

Or was she wearing the clothes seen in the photo on the bed ?






I would have said leggings and a top----------for ease of hurtling around. Both  items were washed through or left soaking.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:21:PM
She'd been into Tiptree that afternoon with her mother and the boys. Her mother wanted to buy trousers for them. They went to a small, now defunct haberdashers where the owner described Sheila as being disinterested.

Would June have allowed Sheila to go shopping with her wearing leggings ?

I imagine she would have had to look reasonable for a shopping trip with June ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 08, 2017, 07:35:PM
Cheers Hartley forgot you'd be able to answer this

There is a floor plan showing the bathroom in the photo library.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:37:PM
Would June have allowed Sheila to go shopping with her wearing leggings ?

I imagine she would have had to look reasonable for a shopping trip with June ?

Could it be that she didn't take a dress with her? She wasn't wearing leggings, anyway. She was wearing Capri pants.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 07:39:PM
Leggings in the '80s were usually accompanied by a long top - they weren't like the leggings these days.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 07:40:PM
Would June have allowed Sheila to go shopping with her wearing leggings ?

I imagine she would have had to look reasonable for a shopping trip with June ?
She was wearing pedal pushers and black pumps. June had begun to accept Sheila as she was, possibly after a talk with the local vicar about the family problems, which is why she was planning an allowance for her to lead her own life in London more independently.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:45:PM
Would June have allowed Sheila to go shopping with her wearing leggings ?

I imagine she would have had to look reasonable for a shopping trip with June ?





Sheila may have worn a dress or skirt when out shopping and changed into more comfortable clothes on their return.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 07:46:PM




Sheila may have worn a dress or skirt when out shopping and changed into more comfortable clothes on their return.

Does it really matter?  :-\
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:47:PM
The black pumps would have been what SJ took away with him. Never to be seen again.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:47:PM
Leggings in the '80s were usually accompanied by a long top - they weren't like the leggings these days.

Is that the type of top found soaking along with the leggings ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:50:PM
Does it really matter?  :-\






Sod off !
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 07:50:PM
Is that the type of top found soaking along with the leggings ?

I didn't know there were any soaking leggings or tops.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:50:PM




Sheila may have worn a dress or skirt when out shopping and changed into more comfortable clothes on their return.

The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:51:PM





Sod off !

Language, please :o :o :o
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:52:PM
The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!

I assume that's in a witness statement some where ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:52:PM
The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!







Whatever. They were last seen damp and hanging over the bannister.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:53:PM
The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!

Could the leggings found in soak be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?

Could any of the clothes on the bed in the photo be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:54:PM
I didn't know there were any soaking leggings or tops.

There weren't. The 2 pairs of trousers in the other bucket were the boys'. There were leggings hanging over the banister but whether they were still wet is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 07:55:PM
Language, please :o :o :o







That was to David for pulling me up when everyone else was going on about what Sheila wore. Why single me out ? So I told him to sod off. Obnoxious twerp.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:55:PM
I assume that's in a witness statement some where ?

Certainly
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:56:PM
The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!

What time did they visit the shop roughly ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 07:57:PM






Whatever. They were last seen damp and hanging over the bannister.

Leggings -other than having two legs- bear no resemblance to peddle pushers/Capri pants.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:58:PM
The shop keeper said she was wearing peddle pushers/Capri pants!!!
Could the leggings found in soak be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?

Could any of the clothes on the bed in the photo be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?


Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 07:59:PM
Leggings -other than having two legs- bear no resemblance to peddle pushers/Capri pants.

Even in the opinion of a man ?

(I am assuming the shop assistant was male)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 08:00:PM


That was to David for pulling me up when everyone else was going on about what Sheila wore. Why single me out ? So I told him to sod off. Obnoxious twerp.

It applies to everyone. The topic is rather pointless don't you think?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:01:PM
What time did they visit the shop roughly ?

Off the top of my head, I'd say around 3pm. I say this because afterwards they visited an old lady who was a friend of Junes, for tea, I believe. Tea would be taken at 4pm. It's a little ritual which is still adhered to by the elderly genteel.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:02:PM
It applies to everyone. The topic is rather pointless don't you think?






Don't bloody well tell me------tell the author !
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:04:PM
Leggings -other than having two legs- bear no resemblance to peddle pushers/Capri pants.

I have googled it and today in 2017 you can buy "peddle pusher leggings" and "capri leggings"

So unless things were different in 1986 then surely what was seen hanging up was what Sheila was wearing on the shopping trip ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:04:PM
Could the leggings found in soak be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?

Could any of the clothes on the bed in the photo be described as peddle pushers/capri pants ?

I don't recall that there were any of Sheila's clothes -other than the knicks- in soak. The trousers were the boys. However, I'm not 100% certain.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:05:PM
Off the top of my head, I'd say around 3pm. I say this because afterwards they visited an old lady who was a friend of Junes, for tea, I believe. Tea would be taken at 4pm. It's a little ritual which is still adhered to by the elderly genteel.

I was brought up with the tea ritual  ;)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:08:PM
It applies to everyone. The topic is rather pointless don't you think?

Every detail however small regarding the last known movements of the deceased are normally considered potentially relevant.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:08:PM
I have googled it and today in 2017 you can buy "peddle pusher leggings" and "capri leggings"

So unless things were different in 1986 then surely what was seen hanging up was what Sheila was wearing on the shopping trip ?

I was wearing leggings in 1986. I'm the same height as Sheila and at the time around the same weight. my leggings fell just short of my ankle. Sometimes I wore them with stilettos. Sometimes I wore them with boots. Capri pants, from memory and not something I ever wore, were more calf length.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:10:PM
I was brought up with the tea ritual  ;)






So was I,surrounded by antimacassars and aspidistras.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:12:PM
I was wearing leggings in 1986. I'm the same height as Sheila and at the time around the same weight. my leggings fell just short of my ankle. Sometimes I wore them with stilettos. Sometimes I wore them with boots. Capri pants, from memory and not something I ever wore, were more calf length.

They sound very similar though ...

Easily the sort of thing a male shop assistant could describe them as ?

By the way I am guessing their tea took at least an hour ?

So they did not leave the lady until say 5 pm - getting home at about maybe 5.30 pm ?

Do you know what time supper started in the Farm that evening ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:15:PM
I was brought up with the tea ritual  ;)

It was adhered to very strictly by rather grand Great Aunts and Uncles. I can still recall the tinkling sound of fine bone china cups being set down on their saucers and breaking the silence.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:18:PM





So was I,surrounded by antimacassars and aspidistras.

My "grand mother" that I used to enjoy the tea ceremony with in my child hood was an expert and an author on plants funnily enough ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 08:20:PM
Every detail however small regarding the last known movements of the deceased are normally considered potentially relevant.

I'm talking about the shopping trips with June  ::)

Anyway, Sheila was wearing her watch, earing's and a neckless at the time of massacre. That may be of interest to you because its rather odd for people to wear those while asleep.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:21:PM
My "grand mother" that I used to enjoy the tea ceremony with in my child hood was an expert and an author on plants funnily enough ...

Anyway my conclusion is that Sheila was wearing the "leggings" that were hanging up on the shopping trip and until at least roughly 5.30 pm that afternoon ....

Does anyone disagree with that based on the evidence ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:24:PM
My "grand mother" that I used to enjoy the tea ceremony with in my child hood was an expert and an author on plants funnily enough ...






I never knew any grandparents,they were all dead before I was born,but my great aunts lived this way.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 08:26:PM
I'm talking about the shopping trips with June  ::)

Anyway, Sheila was wearing her watch, earing's and a neckless at the time of massacre. That may be of interest to you because its rather odd for people to wear those while asleep.

What about her ring?

SH's victim also had her watch on which led to the same conclusions you are making now with Sheila

Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:28:PM
I'm talking about the shopping trips with June  ::)

Anyway, Sheila was wearing her watch, earing's and a neckless at the time of massacre. That may be of interest to you because its rather odd for people to wear those while asleep.

Personally I do not think Sheila slept that night ....

My memory is that in 1985 most people took their watches off at least ...

I think if she had been asleep she would have been shot in the head in her sleep ....

Her bed did not look like it had been slept in ...

Plus how could anyone including Jeremy get into the Farm without the dog/s going crazy ?

Every thing seems to point towards her not being asleep at any point ...





Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:30:PM
What about her ring?

SH's victim also had her watch on which led to the same conclusions you are making now with Sheila

Where was her ring ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 08, 2017, 08:30:PM
I'm not sure about her bed. The covers have been pulled up towards the pillow which might suggest she didn't get out of bed, but then some people just slip out from under the covers I guess. The eiderdown is also falling off the bottom of the bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:32:PM
They sound very similar though ...

Easily the sort of thing a male shop assistant could describe them as ?

By the way I am guessing their tea took at least an hour ?

So they did not leave the lady until say 5 pm - getting home at about maybe 5.30 pm ?

Do you know what time supper started in the Farm that evening ?

The male shop owner would have been no 'fashionista'. He was a little man who owned a haberdashery shop which stocked a few items of clothes.

It's likely that the boys would have been given their meal first, then bathed and put to bed. 7pm?

Adults supper 9-9.30? to give them longer to get the harvest in.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 08:33:PM
Where was her ring ?

On her finger
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:38:PM
Personally I do not think Sheila slept that night ....

My memory is that in 1985 most people took their watches off at least ...

I think if she had been asleep she would have been shot in the head in her sleep ....

Her bed did not look like it had been slept in ...

Plus how could anyone including Jeremy get into the Farm without the dog/s going crazy ?

Every thing seems to point towards her not being asleep at any point ...

As the murders were meant to look as if Sheila had committed them, she couldn't have been shot whilst in bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:40:PM
As the murders were meant to look as if Sheila had committed them, she couldn't have been shot whilst in bed.








Why not ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Roch on October 08, 2017, 08:41:PM
She had earrings in.  One of them was ripped from her ear.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:43:PM
Oh dear. Where did it end up ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:44:PM







Why not ?

Coz I'd guess that, given the choice, she'd be with her boys, rather than go back to bed to end it all.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Roch on October 08, 2017, 08:46:PM
Oh dear. Where did it end up ?

It seems to have vanished some point after her PM
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 08:49:PM
Coz I'd guess that, given the choice, she'd be with her boys, rather than go back to bed to end it all.






Then she should have been with her boys ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 08:52:PM





Then she should have been with her boys ?

How could she when Jeremy shot her in the master bedroom. Perhaps she was trying to get to them.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 08:57:PM
She had earrings in.  One of them was ripped from her ear.

How do we know this ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 08, 2017, 09:01:PM
How could she when Jeremy shot her in the master bedroom. Perhaps she was trying to get to them.






Where was she when he was fighting with his dad ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 09:10:PM





Where was she when he was fighting with his dad ?

It was a very large, solid house with high ceilings. I don't know if sound would have carried even if her room was above the kitchen. She may have been unaware. She may have checked on the boys -prior to them being shot- she MAY then have gone in to her mother.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 09:11:PM
How could she when Jeremy shot her in the master bedroom.

I cant wait for Jane J to back this up with evidence.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 09:29:PM
I cant wait for Jane J to back this up with evidence.
It's either Sheila or Jeremy because of the alleged telephone call. If you can figure out how a young woman who was walking stiffly at Vaulty Manor, with no seeming movement in her head or trunk at half past three ,was reported as "vague and distant" in the Tiptree shop with smudged lipstick on her teeth some time later, was described as "like a zombie" by Pamela at 10:00pm could turn into Wonderwoman then I'd like to hear it.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 09:38:PM
It's either Sheila or Jeremy because of the telephone call. If you can figure out how a young woman who was walking stiffly at Vaulty Manor, with no seeming movement in her head or trunk at half past three ,was reported as "vague and distant" in the Tiptree shop with smudged lipstick on her teeth some time later, was described as "like a zombie" by Pamela at 10:00pm could turn into Wonderwoman then I'd like to hear it.

Do you have a link to the Tiptree shop keepers statement ?

Or at least his name please ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 09:41:PM
Do you have a link to the Tiptree shop keepers statement ?

Or at least his name please ...
His name is Barry Parker. I also noted in the book that June's aunt Connie Lugg had told fellow bible class member Audrey Childs that June wouldn't be attending that Tuesday night because of the arrival of Sheila and the twins.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Roch on October 08, 2017, 09:43:PM
It's either Sheila or Jeremy because of the telephone call. If you can figure out how a young woman who was walking stiffly at Vaulty Manor, with no seeming movement in her head or trunk at half past three ,was reported as "vague and distant" in the Tiptree shop with smudged lipstick on her teeth some time later, was described as "like a zombie" by Pamela at 10:00pm could turn into Wonderwoman then I'd like to hear it.

Steve... might that not be a pre-psychotic stage?  A kind of brooding build up to an unforeseen explosion of rage and determination?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 09:45:PM
Steve... might that not be a pre-psychotic stage?  A kind of brooding build up to an unforeseen explosion of rage and determination?
Well that's possible but then you have to consider her physical frailty vis-a-vis having to race downstairs to reload after the discharge of the first ten bullets.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 09:47:PM
Steve... might that not be a pre-psychotic stage?  A kind of brooding build up to an unforeseen explosion of rage and determination?

No, indeed not. Lookout is now convinced that she wasn't psychotic.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 09:48:PM
Steve... might that not be a pre-psychotic stage?  A kind of brooding build up to an unforeseen explosion of rage and determination?

I see this as perfectly possible - people can change dramatically during psychotic attacks - and nearly all the shots were actually from less than 2 foot ... and it is not impossible she took some cocaine after dinner which would have enhanced her physical reactions etc ...

With the element of surprise on her side would she have had to be that on the ball to pull it off anyway ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 09:50:PM
Well that's possible but then you have to consider her physical frailty vis-a-vis having to race downstairs to reload after the discharge of the first ten bullets.

Why would she have had to race if the children were asleep - June was badly injured and so was Neville ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: JackieD on October 08, 2017, 09:53:PM
It's either Sheila or Jeremy because of the alleged telephone call. If you can figure out how a young woman who was walking stiffly at Vaulty Manor, with no seeming movement in her head or trunk at half past three ,was reported as "vague and distant" in the Tiptree shop with smudged lipstick on her teeth some time later, was described as "like a zombie" by Pamela at 10:00pm could turn into Wonderwoman then I'd like to hear it.

She had a gun and was known to go in and out of rages
We've been over this a thousand times
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 09:54:PM
Why would she have had to race if the children were asleep - June was badly injured and so was Neville ?

Because she was a mother. Because there was horror all around her and she'd have needed to see that her children weren't touched or frightened by it.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 09:57:PM
She had a gun and was known to go in and out of rages
We've been over this a thousand times

Prove she had a gun. There was a gun there, certainly. Conveniently left there by Jeremy, however, there's no one who can say, with any truth that Sheila had it, nor do we have documented the "rages" you have her going in an out of.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 09:59:PM
She had a gun and was known to go in and out of rages
We've been over this a thousand times

I don't recall you EVER having posted about this before

Where is it stated Sheila went "in and out of rages?"

Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 10:01:PM
I don't recall you EVER having posted about this before

Where is it stated Sheila went "in and out of rages?"

With Freddie in Maida Vale ?

And it was not the first time that Neville had been called to calm her down ...

To be fair ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:06:PM
With Freddie in Maida Vale ?

And it was not the first time that Neville had been called to calm her down ...

To be fair ...

She was psychotic -don't tell Lookout, though- so that can hardly be called a rage. More fear, I'd say.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 10:08:PM
Why would she have had to race if the children were asleep - June was badly injured and so was Neville ?
No Nevill made his way downstairs somehow..
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 10:14:PM
She was psychotic -don't tell Lookout, though- so that can hardly be called a rage. More fear, I'd say.

Freddie was in fear throughout the incidence ...

So he must have been experiencing it as anger coming from Sheila ...

He supplied her with cocaine ...

Most cocaine addicts go into fits of rage at times anyway ...

Even Julie probably did as well when hers ran out ...

its normally the day after the rages start ....
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 08, 2017, 10:18:PM
It's either Sheila or Jeremy because of the alleged telephone call. If you can figure out how a young woman who was walking stiffly at Vaulty Manor, with no seeming movement in her head or trunk at half past three ,was reported as "vague and distant" in the Tiptree shop with smudged lipstick on her teeth some time later, was described as "like a zombie" by Pamela at 10:00pm could turn into Wonderwoman then I'd like to hear it.

You don't need to be wonderwoman to shoot people in the first place.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:25:PM
Freddie was in fear throughout the incidence ...

So he must have been experiencing it as anger coming from Sheila ...

He supplied her with cocaine ...

Most cocaine addicts go into fits of rage at times anyway ...

Even Julie probably did as well when hers ran out ...

its normally the day after the rages start ....

Certainly Freddie would have been out of his depth.

There is no suggestion that she ever tried to attack him

There is no suggestion that she was an addict

Where is it said that Julie was an addict

You're making sweeping statements.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: JackieD on October 08, 2017, 10:26:PM
I don't recall you EVER having posted about this before

Where is it stated Sheila went "in and out of rages?"

Jeremy told me
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 10:27:PM
Jeremy told me

Of course he did  ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:29:PM
Jeremy told me


Well, I guess that settles it. When all else fails, just say "Jeremy told me"!!! ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 10:31:PM
Certainly Freddie would have been out of his depth.

There is no suggestion that she ever tried to attack him

There is no suggestion that she was an addict

Where is it said that Julie was an addict

You're making sweeping statements.

She told her psychiatrist that she got her cocaine from Freddie ...

Cocaine users are nearly always addicts ie regular users ....

Freddie was in fear he would be attacked - but you are right - he was not ....
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 10:32:PM
Jeremy told me

Did he tell you what clothes she had on at the dinner table

Did you ever bother to ask

Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 10:34:PM
Jeremy told me

did you ever ask him why he wore Sheila's clothes

And why he burned his parents clothing in the fire pit
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:36:PM
She told her psychiatrist that she got her cocaine from Freddie ...

Cocaine users are nearly always addicts ie regular users ....

Freddie was in fear he would be attacked - but you are right - he was not ....

I don't deny that, however...............

...............it's a huge leap from recreational to addict............

...........and if Freddie thought he may be witnessing something he'd contributed to, it's reasonable to think he'd have been scared.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:44:PM
did you ever ask him why he wore Sheila's clothes

And why he burned his parents clothing in the fire pit

Yeah, he has an androgynous look about him.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 08, 2017, 10:45:PM
I don't deny that, however...............

...............it's a huge leap from recreational to addict............

...........and if Freddie thought he may be witnessing something he'd contributed to, it's reasonable to think he'd have been scared.
It is a fact that some people only need to use cocaine once to become addicted while others never become addicted. It also depends to a certain extent how it's taken, crack cocaine, which is smoked/inhaled is particularly highly addictive and causes dangerous behaviour.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: JackieD on October 08, 2017, 10:49:PM
did you ever ask him why he wore Sheila's clothes

And why he burned his parents clothing in the fire pit

I asked him loads
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 10:50:PM
Yeah, he has an androgynous look about him.

I was interested in the jumper

It has been stated in two different books ,that after the murders,JB and BC spent alot of time at Sheilas flat.People stated that he was using his sisters clothes,ie:tight jeans and jumpers.When JB got arrested at the flat,the white arran jumper he is seen wearing in the photos was Sheilas.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:55:PM
It is a fact that some people only need to use cocaine once to become addicted while others never become addicted. It also depends to a certain extent how it's taken, crack cocaine, which is smoked/inhaled is particularly highly addictive and causes dangerous behaviour.

But no one has yet provided evidence that Sheila was an addict. We can speculate for ever. We can turn her from a recreational drug user to someone who turned to prostitution to feed her habit -if we want to make her responsible for the murders- but speculation is all it will ever be.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 08, 2017, 10:59:PM
I was interested in the jumper

Hmmm. I know that not all things written in books are true, but this one works for me. Shall we say, it has the ring of truth about it?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 11:05:PM
It is a fact that some people only need to use cocaine once to become addicted while others never become addicted. It also depends to a certain extent how it's taken, crack cocaine, which is smoked/inhaled is particularly highly addictive and causes dangerous behaviour.

Sheila told her psychiatrist that she had smoked cocaine ...

Another indicator it was more likely problematic use rather than very light recreational ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 11:08:PM
Hmmm. I know that not all things written in books are true, but this one works for me. Shall we say, it has the ring of truth about it?

I wondered if Jackie, Roch, David or anyone else may know?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 11:11:PM
Sheila told her psychiatrist that she had smoked cocaine ...

Another indicator it was more likely problematic use rather than very light recreational ...

WHEN did she say this? What was the date? How long before the murders?

What's the difference between problematic and recreational?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 08, 2017, 11:14:PM
It has been stated in two different books ,that after the murders,JB and BC spent alot of time at Sheilas flat.People stated that he was using his sisters clothes,ie:tight jeans and jumpers.When JB got arrested at the flat,the white arran jumper he is seen wearing in the photos was Sheilas.

Anyone?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 08, 2017, 11:29:PM
WHEN did she say this? What was the date? How long before the murders?

What's the difference between problematic and recreational?
I think that's true. It would be the second stay at St. Andrews in March 1985.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 08, 2017, 11:53:PM
WHEN did she say this? What was the date? How long before the murders?

What's the difference between problematic and recreational?

It is in one of her psychiatrists 4 statements ...

Problematic I would class as regular and more damaging ie more negative consequences ...

Even once is however still a problem ...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 08:28:AM
I don't know why it's important what clothes Sheila was wearing before she was killed.

She obviously went to bed around 10pm, as stated by PB. Putting on her nightie.

Nevill & June went to bed shortly afterwards & were found in their nightwear. The twins had gone to bed beforehand.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:46:AM
It is in one of her psychiatrists 4 statements ...

Problematic I would class as regular and more damaging ie more negative consequences ...

Even once is however still a problem ...

Yes, he speaks of her drug taking but he says nothing which indicates that he thought she was addicted. I would see as being "problematic" anything being taken in vast amounts on a daily basis. I have no sense of this with Sheila. Indeed, autopsy revealed only "traces" of cannabis and nothing about her behaviours, whilst at WHF, is suggestive of withdrawal symptoms.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 09, 2017, 09:14:AM
I don't know why it's important what clothes Sheila was wearing before she was killed.

She obviously went to bed around 10pm, as stated by PB. Putting on her nightie.

Nevill & June went to bed shortly afterwards & were found in their nightwear. The twins had gone to bed beforehand.

Would it be significant if JB reported that Sheila was in her nightdress when he said he left the farm shortly after 10pm?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 09:18:AM
Would it be significant if JB reported that Sheila was in her nightdress when he said he left the farm shortly after 10pm?

He didn't. But watch this space...
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 10:08:AM
Would it be significant if JB reported that Sheila was in her nightdress when he said he left the farm shortly after 10pm?






Sheila had on her day clothes. I "enquired" 3/4 years ago.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 09, 2017, 02:45:PM
I don't know why it's important what clothes Sheila was wearing before she was killed.

She obviously went to bed around 10pm, as stated by PB. Putting on her nightie.

Nevill & June went to bed shortly afterwards & were found in their nightwear. The twins had gone to bed beforehand.

Did DB state that she was told that Sheila had gone to bed ?

Or did DB state that she was told Sheila was going to go to bed soon ?

How do you know Neville and June went shortly after ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 09, 2017, 02:51:PM
Would it be significant if JB reported that Sheila was in her nightdress when he said he left the farm shortly after 10pm?

If Sheila was still wearing the leggings at say 10pm then I would then think it likely that she showered after 10pm - if Sheila was in her night dress already at 10PM I would think it more likely she had showered between 5.30pm and 10pm ...

I think it likely that she showered just before putting the night dress on - whatever time that was ....
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 02:51:PM
Did DB state that she was told that Sheila had gone to bed ?

Or did DB state that she was told Sheila was going to go to bed soon ?

How do you know Neville and June went shortly after ?

It was Pamela Boutflour who said Sheila was going to bed. June told her this when she spoke on the phone to her.

Well it was 10pm. People do go bed around that time after a hard day at work. Nevill & June were found in their nightwear. June shot in bed, Nevill by the bed.

Figure it out.

Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 09, 2017, 02:54:PM

Who did you enquire to ?







Sheila had on her day clothes. I "enquired" 3/4 years ago.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 03:08:PM
If Nevill or Sheila (or both) were found in footwear & a dressing gown then it would suggest they had both been up for several minutes.

There is no possibility both of them spent several minutes engaging with each other & moving around WHF bare footed & just in pyjamas/nightdress.

Grown men & women would have some decorum.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 05:01:PM
WHEN did she say this? What was the date? How long before the murders?

What's the difference between problematic and recreational?
Don't believe crack cocaine is ever recreational, it is highly addictive.  However, I have no idea whether Sheila or Jeremy smoked it.
Would be interested to know where sherlock read that she did.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 05:07:PM
Don't believe crack cocaine is ever recreational, it is highly addictive.  However, I have no idea whether Sheila or Jeremy smoked it.
Would be interested to know where sherlock read that she did.

Was crack obtainable in the 70's/80's? It's not something I recall hearing about, but then I supposes I wouldn't, I didn't move in such circles.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 09, 2017, 05:09:PM
If Sheila was still wearing the leggings at say 10pm then I would then think it likely that she showered after 10pm - if Sheila was in her night dress already at 10PM I would think it more likely she had showered between 5.30pm and 10pm ...

I think it likely that she showered just before putting the night dress on - whatever time that was ....

She had a bandage over a wound/graze didn't she?

I wonder if it would have been possible to identify how long the bandage had been applied. Was it newly applied prior to retiring for the night?
Or it could dispel the shower theory altogether, if it had been applied for a number of hours.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 05:31:PM
Was crack obtainable in the 70's/80's? It's not something I recall hearing about, but then I supposes I wouldn't, I didn't move in such circles.
Nor me Jane.  I'm not sure when it first came into public awareness but I'm sure people have smoked cocaine for generations and crack is cocaine that is smoked so I would guess it has always been around. :-\  Really nasty stuff.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 05:34:PM
Nor me Jane.  I'm not sure when it first came into public awareness but I'm sure people have smoked cocaine for generations and crack is cocaine that is smoked so I would guess it has always been around. :-\  Really nasty stuff.

Cocaine was the drug of choice for the aristocracy in the 1920's. Edward VIII was said to have been addicted to it. I thought crack was a more recent mutation.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 06:08:PM
Cocaine was the drug of choice for the aristocracy in the 1920's. Edward VIII was said to have been addicted to it. I thought crack was a more recent mutation.
From what I can make out the term 'crack' and the particular way of cutting cocaine to form what was called crack seems to have first been discovered in the Toxteth area of Liverpool 8 in about 1981 around the time of the Toxteth riots. 
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 06:17:PM
From what I can make out the term 'crack' and the particular way of cutting cocaine to form what was called crack seems to have first been discovered in the Toxteth area of Liverpool 8 in about 1981 around the time of the Toxteth riots.

OK. I had other things on my mind in 1981 ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 06:21:PM
If Sheila was still wearing the leggings at say 10pm then I would then think it likely that she showered after 10pm - if Sheila was in her night dress already at 10PM I would think it more likely she had showered between 5.30pm and 10pm ...

I think it likely that she showered just before putting the night dress on - whatever time that was ....

Ever wondered when Jeremy had a shower? He seems to have neglected mentioning it in his list of stuff he did after returning home that evening?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 06:26:PM
OK. I had other things on my mind in 1981 ;D ;D
And me!!   ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 06:28:PM
Ever wondered when Jeremy had a shower? He seems to have neglected mentioning it in his list of stuff he did after returning home that evening?

Was there anything to prevent him from showering at WHF after the murders? Any blood residue left behind could have been blamed on Sheila. There seems to be a question mark over whether the shower had been used and several have claimed her hair was wet, although I don't believe it was and it's never been confirmed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 06:29:PM
Don't believe crack cocaine is ever recreational, it is highly addictive.  However, I have no idea whether Sheila or Jeremy smoked it.
Would be interested to know where sherlock read that she did.
The author Carol Ann Lee interviewed Dr. Hugh Cameron Ferguson in 2013, where he explained that Sheila admitted to taking cannabis and cocaine "in a social context".
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 06:29:PM
If Sheila was still wearing the leggings at say 10pm then I would then think it likely that she showered after 10pm - if Sheila was in her night dress already at 10PM I would think it more likely she had showered between 5.30pm and 10pm ...

I think it likely that she showered just before putting the night dress on - whatever time that was ....

Why would she be wearing her watch? Most people take their watch off to shower, and they don't put it back on when they put nightwear on.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 06:49:PM
Was there anything to prevent him from showering at WHF after the murders? Any blood residue left behind could have been blamed on Sheila. There seems to be a question mark over whether the shower had been used and several have claimed her hair was wet, although I don't believe it was and it's never been confirmed.

That's not what I meant. After a hard day on the farm it should have been one of the first things he mentioned, but he didn't, he remembered TV programmes and having a snack but doesn't mention having a shower. Usually you have a shower before going to bed, if he didn't go to bed ........
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 06:51:PM
That's not what I meant. After a hard day on the farm it should have been one of the first things he mentioned, but he didn't, he remembered TV programmes and having a snack but doesn't mention having a shower. Usually you have a shower before going to bed, if he didn't go to bed ........
Yes that is suspicious Caroline, suggesting that he was concentrating so hard on his television programmes alibi that he forgot the basic stuff.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 06:52:PM
Was there anything to prevent him from showering at WHF after the murders? Any blood residue left behind could have been blamed on Sheila. There seems to be a question mark over whether the shower had been used and several have claimed her hair was wet, although I don't believe it was and it's never been confirmed.






I think the drains were checked. That's on the forum somewhere.

As for Sheila's hair,it looked washed on the pic,shiny as opposed to looking lank------unless it was grease ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 06:54:PM
I don't think most people have a shower before going to bed - they have one in the morning. They could do either really, and there's no reason to suppose that anyone had a shower that evening/night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 09, 2017, 06:54:PM





I think the drains were checked. That's on the forum somewhere.

As for Sheila's hair,it looked washed on the pic,shiny as opposed to looking lank------unless it was grease ?

Like she'd stepped out of a l'oreal advert NOT just murdered her family - I agree!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 06:54:PM
That's not what I meant. After a hard day on the farm it should have been one of the first things he mentioned, but he didn't, he remembered TV programmes and having a snack but doesn't mention having a shower. Usually you have a shower before going to bed, if he didn't go to bed ........

Ah, getcha! Yes, he'd have been particularly sweaty and smelly after being cooped up in the tractor cab all day. It had been quite a hot one, I believe.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 06:56:PM
I don't think most people have a shower before going to bed - they have one in the morning. They could do either really, and there's no reason to suppose that anyone had a shower that evening/night.

After working on the farm all day? Come on Lookout! You're always going on about Sheila and the shower - what about Jeremy?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 06:58:PM
He could have had a shower at WHF before he left ? Or even at his own home on his return at 10pm.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:00:PM





I think the drains were checked. That's on the forum somewhere.

As for Sheila's hair,it looked washed on the pic,shiny as opposed to looking lank------unless it was grease ?

Unless you've seen a different picture, I fail to see anything wet about her hair. I would expect wet hair to cling, similar to greasy hair, but the hair fanning out round her head looks full and abundant. I guess it depends what you mean by "washed". Could easily have been within the previous 24 hours.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:00:PM
After working on the farm all day? Come on Lookout! You're always going on about Sheila and the shower - what about Jeremy?

Lookout?

It's not like he was planning to go out or anything, so why would he have a shower?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:02:PM
Lookout?

It's not like he was planning to go out or anything, so why would he have a shower?

Do you only have a shower when you do out? Why should Sheila have had a shower?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:03:PM
Lookout?

It's not like he was planning to go out or anything, so why would he have a shower?

Coz he'd have been sweaty and smelly...................and that's without committing 5 murders.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:03:PM
Lookout?

It's not like he was planning to go out or anything, so why would he have a shower?

Yes, I was answering Lookout's post.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 09, 2017, 07:04:PM
Has anyone uncovered anything in relation to Sheila's Aaron jumper and why he was supposedly wearing it after he'd falsely claimed she had murdered their family?

Did he wear it as a souvenir?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:05:PM
Coz he'd have been sweaty and smelly...................and that's without committing 5 murders.

What is generally normal behaviour for most of the population, never seems to be for Jeremy - you noticed that?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:06:PM
Has anyone uncovered anything in relation to Sheila's Aaron jumper and why he was supposedly wearing it after he'd falsely claimed she had murdered their family?

Did he wear it as a souvenir?

Where did you read it was Sheila's jumper?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:06:PM
Unless you've seen a different picture, I fail to see anything wet about her hair. I would expect wet hair to cling, similar to greasy hair, but the hair fanning out round her head looks full and abundant. I guess it depends what you mean by "washed". Could easily have been within the previous 24 hours.






Her hair would have dried naturally in the warmth of the farmhouse,plus it was short hair.
What do you think I mean,washed ? As in at the same time as showering.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:08:PM
Do you only have a shower when you do out? Why should Sheila have had a shower?

I didn't say Sheila had a shower. I don't see why any of them had to have a shower that night. Why couldn't they have had a shower in the morning? If Jeremy went home at 10pm(?) why would he have a shower if he was only going to watch TV? If he's the killer, why would he have a shower that night?

Do you think that people only shower at night?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:08:PM





Her hair would have dried naturally in the warmth of the farmhouse,plus it was short hair.
What do you think I mean,washed ? As in at the same time as showering.

So Sheila had a shower and did Nevil but not Jeremy?  ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:08:PM
Coz he'd have been sweaty and smelly...................and that's without committing 5 murders.

So what? Maybe he had a shower in the mornings.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:08:PM
What is generally normal behaviour for most of the population, never seems to be for Jeremy - you noticed that?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Most definitely. The rules which apply to you, me and the rest of society, Jeremy seems to be exempted from.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:09:PM
Yes, I was answering Lookout's post.

I thought I made that post.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:10:PM
I thought I made that post.

So you did - answer is still the same! Who goes to bed filthy?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:11:PM
I don't get this obsession with having a shower in the evening. Do none of you people have a shower in the morning?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:11:PM
So you did - answer is still the same! Who goes to bed filthy?

Why would anyone be filthy? Even if they were, they could plan to have a shower in the morning. I don't see the point in having one at night.

Do you have one at night and in the morning?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:12:PM
I don't get this obsession with having a shower in the evening. Do none of you people have a shower in the morning?

Yes, but not if I had been working on a farm all day!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:13:PM
So Sheila had a shower and did Nevil but not Jeremy?  ;D






The indication that someone had showered at WHF was the misplaced showerhead which I assumed Sheila had been the last one to have used it.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:13:PM
Why would anyone be filthy? Even if they were, they could plan to have a shower in the morning. I don't see the point in having one at night.

Do you have one at night and in the morning?

No, had I been working on the farm, I'd have one at night so wouldn't need one in the morning or are you saying people should have a shower after being to bed but not after a days hard work?  ???
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:13:PM





Her hair would have dried naturally in the warmth of the farmhouse,plus it was short hair.
What do you think I mean,washed ? As in at the same time as showering.

It depends how one defines short. There seems to be a cloud of very thick hair around her head. All her pictures show a luxuriant mass. Crowning glory, in fact.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:14:PM





The indication that someone had showered at WHF was the misplaced showerhead which I assumed Sheila had been the last one to have used it.

Assumed why?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:15:PM
Though what washing/showering habits has to do with anything I don't know.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 09, 2017, 07:15:PM
What is generally normal behaviour for most of the population, never seems to be for Jeremy - you noticed that?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

'Cos he's hero worshipped up on that pedestal http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8482.msg403423.html#msg403423
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:16:PM
Though what washing/showering habits has to do with anything I don't know.

They have plenty to do with the case when discussing Sheila and even Nevil!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:17:PM
Yes, but not if I had been working on a farm all day!

Maybe he didn't think there was any point having a shower that time of night. Does it matter anyway?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:17:PM
They have plenty to do with the case when discussing Sheila and even Nevil!
[/quote






Such as what ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:18:PM
It depends how one defines short. There seems to be a cloud of very thick hair around her head. All her pictures show a luxuriant mass. Crowning glory, in fact.

That's because she's lying down and her hair spread out. You can't tell what it would look like if she wasn't lying down.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:18:PM
Why would anyone be filthy? Even if they were, they could plan to have a shower in the morning. I don't see the point in having one at night.

Do you have one at night and in the morning?

He would be filthy and smelly. It was dry. The tractor would throw up dust which would stick to his sweaty body. He had to be up at around 4am at harvest time. I'd have thought it made sense for MANY reasons to shower before he went to bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:19:PM
He would be filthy and smelly. It was dry. The tractor would throw up dust which would stick to his sweaty body. He had to be up at around 4am at harvest time. I'd have thought it made sense for MANY reasons to shower before he went to bed.

He probably wore an overall. Why do you care if he had a shower or not? I thought you thought he was planning to be up all night killing his family and then going to the farm with the police.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:21:PM
That's because she's lying down and her hair spread out. You can't tell what it would look like if she wasn't lying down.

But it would need hair of a particular length and density to do that. Trust me, I could probably tell you to the last HAIR what it would look like if she wasn't laying down.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:22:PM
I don't really think he'd have been bothered about that,somehow after 17 hours all he'd have wanted was a beer or two and a spliff,then bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:24:PM
I don't really think he'd have been bothered about that,somehow after 17 hours all he'd have wanted was a beer or two and a spliff,then bed.

I feel perfectly certain that after a 17 hour day, and carrying out 5 murders he'd be gagging for "a beer or two and a spliff"
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:24:PM
But it would need hair of a particular length and density to do that. Trust me, I could probably tell you to the last HAIR what it would look like if she wasn't laying down.

What particular length? It's quite short on top. I would say it was a like a layered bob. She didn't like her hair at the time apparently. You can see what kind of hair density she had from other photos.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:28:PM
What particular length? It's quite short on top. I would say it was a like a layered bob. She didn't like her hair at the time apparently. You can see what kind of hair density she had from other photos.

Again, it depends hugely on how you're defining "short". If the skull is long, a layered bob is going to have infinitely longer layers than on a shorter skull. Therefore, the hair will look longer.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:29:PM
I feel perfectly certain that after a 17 hour day, and carrying out 5 murders he'd be gagging for "a beer or two and a spliff"









He didn't even have the energy to bring in the last trailer as his father did it.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:29:PM
Again, it depends hugely on how you're defining "short". If the skull is long, a layered bob is going to have infinitely longer layers than on a shorter skull. Therefore, the hair will look longer.

Does it matter?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:31:PM
Does it matter?

I was addressing the question you asked of me.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 07:33:PM








He didn't even have the energy to bring in the last trailer as his father did it.

He was awake enough to ring Julie at 10pm. Although can't remember what they spoke about for 20 minutes.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:33:PM
He probably wore an overall. Why do you care if he had a shower or not? I thought you thought he was planning to be up all night killing his family and then going to the farm with the police.

That's the point, he omitted that he had a shower - because he didn't because he didn't go to bed that night!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:34:PM








He didn't even have the energy to bring in the last trailer as his father did it.

Poor boy.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:34:PM
That's the point, he omitted that he had a shower - because he didn't because he didn't go to bed that night!

He might not have had a shower anyway. I don't know why you think everyone must have a shower late at night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 07:37:PM
He might not have had a shower anyway. I don't know why you think everyone must have a shower late at night.

Kaldin many people go to bed then shower in the morning before they go off to work I guess sometimes a person can be too tired to bother at night everyone is different in their habits.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:38:PM
He might not have had a shower anyway. I don't know why you think everyone must have a shower late at night.

 A) Because it would give them a few extra minutes in bed, if they'd got to be up around 4am.

 B) It would save them getting the sheets filthy.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:38:PM
Kaldin many people go to bed then shower in the morning before they go off to work I guess sometimes a person can be too tired to bother at night everyone is different in their habits.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying. I don't know why people think it's only acceptable to have a shower at night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:39:PM
A) Because it would give them a few extra minutes in bed, if they'd got to be up around 4am.

 B) It would save them getting the sheets filthy.

He wouldn't get the sheets filthy. How do you know he got up at 4am?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 07:39:PM
That's the point, he omitted that he had a shower - because he didn't because he didn't go to bed that night!







Whether you believe he went to bed or not there were still people alive at the farmhouse during the time that his father rang him. Or don't you believe that either ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:40:PM
Exactly! That's what I've been saying. I don't know why people think it's only acceptable to have a shower at night.

I don't recall having made that claim. I prefer to shower in the morning, but I wouldn't get between the sheets if I was as dirty as Jeremy would have been.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 07:41:PM
Exactly! That's what I've been saying. I don't know why people think it's only acceptable to have a shower at night.

In Bamber's case he is more likely to have showers after work. He had worked a long day in the summer. Doing a physical job.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:43:PM
I don't recall having made that claim. I prefer to shower in the morning, but I wouldn't get between the sheets if I was as dirty as Jeremy would have been.

How do you know he was dirty, and how do you know what he would have done?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:43:PM
Kaldin many people go to bed then shower in the morning before they go off to work I guess sometimes a person can be too tired to bother at night everyone is different in their habits.

Have you any idea how much dust is flung in the air during a harvest? Are you saying that covered in that much grime, he would have just got into bed and have a shower in the morning? There are lots of farmers here, some I know pretty well, I think I'll do a small survey and find out how many would be prepared to slip between the sheets covered in dust and sweat.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:43:PM
In Bamber's case he is more likely to have showers after work. He had worked a long day in the summer. Doing a physical job.

Of course! It's common sense!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:43:PM
In Bamber's case he is more likely to have showers after work. He had worked a long day in the summer. Doing a physical job.

Maybe he couldn't be bothered. Maybe he had a shower, maybe he didn't. What difference does it make?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:44:PM
Have you any idea how much dust is flung in the air during a harvest? Are you saying that covered in that much grime, he would have just got into bed and have a shower in the morning? There are lots of farmers here, some I know pretty well, I think I'll do a small survey and find out how many would be prepared to slip between the sheets covered in dust and sweat.

Why would they care? They'd be asleep.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:45:PM
He wouldn't get the sheets filthy. How do you know he got up at 4am?

It was harvest. It's customary to have all hands on deck. Harvesting is dusty work. Sweat combined with dust makes dirt. It runs down a sweaty face in rivulets. Tell me, are you enjoying being deliberately obdurate? Or have you made it your mission to throw every thread off course?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:46:PM
Why would they care? They'd be asleep.

Because when people are dirty, they generally wash - maybe you don't so don't find it strange?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 07:47:PM
Though what washing/showering habits has to do with anything I don't know.

Lookout Jeremy may have had a shower he may not don't recall the police saying he was rather dirty and smelly when he met up with them fact is none of us know only he knows ask him next time you write to him.  I seem to remember we discussed the fact his bathroom was devoid of towels and seem to think it was said after he used them they went into the washing machine and the clean ones were in the airing cupboard but I am quite vague on the outcome of the forums discussion at the time.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:47:PM
It was harvest. It's customary to have all hands on deck. Harvesting is dusty work. Sweat combined with dust makes dirt. It runs down a sweaty face in rivulets. Tell me, are you enjoying being deliberately obdurate? Or have you made it your mission to throw every thread off course?

I guess when Bamber is involved harvesting is all marshmallow and powder puffs!   ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:49:PM
It was harvest. It's customary to have all hands on deck. Harvesting is dusty work. Sweat combined with dust makes dirt. It runs down a sweaty face in rivulets. Tell me, are you enjoying being deliberately obdurate? Or have you made it your mission to throw every thread off course?

Are you enjoying obsessing about whether Jeremy had a shower or not? You can't possibly know if he did or if he didn't, and why is it relevant anyway?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 07:50:PM
Bamber would have had a shower after returning at around 3am. After putting his clothes in the washing machine.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:50:PM
I guess when Bamber is involved harvesting is all marshmallow and powder puffs!   ::)

Or he's so hallowed that the things which touch the rest of us adversely fail to touch him.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:51:PM
Are you enjoying obsessing about whether Jeremy had a shower or not? You can't possibly know if he did or if he didn't, and why is it relevant anyway?

You've certainly obsessed over enough things recently - it sounds like we've hit a nerve! Just calm down  ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:52:PM
Because when people are dirty, they generally wash - maybe you don't so don't find it strange?

What is wrong with you? Most people I know have a shower in the morning. If you don't, that's up to you, but it's not abnormal to not have a shower at night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:53:PM
You've certainly obsessed over enough things recently - it sounds like we've hit a nerve! Just calm down  ::)

I wasn't addressing you, I was addressing Jane, who got obnoxious with me. Are you her spokesperson now?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:53:PM
Are you enjoying obsessing about whether Jeremy had a shower or not? You can't possibly know if he did or if he didn't, and why is it relevant anyway?

Feel free to contribute to another thread. There's no point in you contributing to something you feel is irrelevant, is there?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:53:PM
Feel free to contribute to another thread. There's no point in you contributing to something you feel is irrelevant, is there?

Feel free to mind your own business. If I want to post on this thread, I will.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 07:54:PM
Have you any idea how much dust is flung in the air during a harvest? Are you saying that covered in that much grime, he would have just got into bed and have a shower in the morning? There are lots of farmers here, some I know pretty well, I think I'll do a small survey and find out how many would be prepared to slip between the sheets covered in dust and sweat.

Caroline I am quite aware what happens on farms I live on one.  The point I was making not everyone showers at night some in the morning my comments were general not aiming at farmers.  I am sure if Jeremy was covered in dust he would have showered the fact he did not mention it does not mean he did not have one.  Perhaps he had one before he killed his family but it would have made more sense for him to have one after he murdered them if indeed he did murder them.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:54:PM
Lookout Jeremy may have had a shower he may not don't recall the police saying he was rather dirty and smelly when he met up with them fact is none of us know only he knows ask him next time you write to him.  I seem to remember we discussed the fact his bathroom was devoid of towels and seem to think it was said after he used them they went into the washing machine and the clean ones were in the airing cupboard but I am quite vague on the outcome of the forums discussion at the time.

Jeremy gave a detailed description of what he did when he returned home and before going to bed, including what he watched on TV but made no mention of having showered. After a long day on the farm (unless you're a scruffy bugger), anyone in their right mind would have a shower before getting into bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 07:55:PM
Feel free to mind your own business. If I want to post on this thread, I will.

Do you agree with Sherlock that Bamber smoked a joint after Nevill's 'mysterious' call ?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 07:56:PM
Feel free to mind your own business. If I want to post on this thread, I will.

Then stop whinging about it being irrelevant.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 07:57:PM
Caroline I am quite aware what happens on farms I live on one.  The point I was making not everyone showers at night some in the morning my comments were general not aiming at farmers.  I am sure if Jeremy was covered in dust he would have showered the fact he did not mention it does not mean he did not have one.  Perhaps he had one before he killed his family but it would have made more sense for him to have one after he murdered them if indeed he did murder them.

Well we are talking about farmers and not in general and EUREKA! Yes he would have showered AFTER killing the family which is WHY he didn't mention it as part of his routine! THAT is the point.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:58:PM
Do you agree with Sherlock that Bamber smoked a joint after Nevill's 'mysterious' call ?

I don't know if he did or he didn't.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Adam on October 09, 2017, 07:59:PM
A shower is only relavant after Bamber committed the massacre. It is certain he would have a shower, but will never admit to having one.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 07:59:PM
Well we are talking about farmers and not in general and EUREKA! Yes he would have showered AFTER killing the family which is WHY he didn't mention it as part of his routine! THAT is the point.

He might not have mentioned it as part of his routine because it wasn't part of his routine to have a shower at night!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:00:PM
I wasn't addressing you, I was addressing Jane, who got obnoxious with me. Are you her spokesperson now?

WOW! It seems this point has touch a nerve - this always happens - Quite funny really. Not sure what hold this guy has but .........  :o Bet David turns up any second!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:00:PM
I doubt it. If she was ever obsessing over someone having a shower, it would be none other than her one and only Caroline.

 ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:00:PM
WOW! It seems this point has touch a nerve - this always happens - Quite funny really. Not sure what hold this guy has but .........  :o Bet David turns up any second!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You and your little gang seem to speak for each other all the time - do you not have minds of your own?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:01:PM
I doubt it. If she was ever obsessing over someone having a shower, it would be none other than her one and only Caroline.
KNEW IT!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:01:PM
You and your little gang seem to speak for each other all the time - do you not have minds of your own?

Oh GROW UP!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:01:PM
Then stop whinging about it being irrelevant.

Well it's not - he could have been in the habit of having a shower in the morning. Why are you so obsessed about it anyway?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:02:PM
Oh GROW UP!

Haha! That's rich coming from you.  :))
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:02:PM
Well it's not - he could have been in the habit of having a shower in the morning. Why are you so obsessed about it anyway?

Like you were OBSESSED about the bible cover?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:03:PM
Like you were OBSESSED about the bible cover?

That was relevant, and there was a photo of it which needed explaining.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:04:PM
Why are you answering for Jane again Caroline?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:06:PM
Haha! That's rich coming from you.  :))

Not really - you're acting like a 3 year old. Anyone working on a farm all day would have a shower and you know it. You went on and on about the bible cover and ended up being wrong, the same with the rifle angles - now you're arguing over this. I was perfectly polite to you but if you want want to start that BS. then I give ans good as I get!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:06:PM
Why are you answering for Jane again Caroline?

Why are you asking stupid questions Kaldin?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 08:07:PM
Well it's not - he could have been in the habit of having a shower in the morning. Why are you so obsessed about it anyway?
It's just one more omission worth commenting on: psychologically he was attempting to deceive with his alibi, which he had detailed in his mind, but forgot the shower he should have had when he came home. It buttresses Julie's evidence that he hadn't been to bed that night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:08:PM
It's just one more omission worth commenting on: psychologically he was attempting to deceive with his alibi, which he had detailed in his mind, but forgot the shower he should have had when he came home. It buttresses Julie's evidence that he hadn't been to bed that night.

Thanks Steve - it's pretty bloody obvious what the point is if you have half a brain!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:08:PM
Not really - you're acting like a 3 year old. Anyone working on a farm all day would have a shower and you know it. You went on and on about the bible cover and ended up being wrong, the same with the rifle angles - now you're arguing over this. I was perfectly polite to you but if you want want to start that BS. then I give ans good as I get!

You're the one who's answering for other posters, and you don't even know who you're speaking to some of the time.

It's just nonsense to assume that Jeremy would have had a shower that time of night, but you keep on and on insisting that he must have had one. Don't bother to threaten me - I'm not a shrinking violet myself.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:09:PM
It's just one more omission worth commenting on: psychologically he was attempting to deceive with his alibi, which he had detailed in his mind, but forgot the shower he should have had when he came home. It buttresses Julie's evidence that he hadn't been to bed that night.

It's not an omission if he didn't have a shower! Who says he should have had one?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:09:PM
Well it's not - he could have been in the habit of having a shower in the morning. Why are you so obsessed about it anyway?

You're carrying on the debate. Your obsession must be as great -or MORE great- than anyone else's.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:10:PM
You're the one who's answering for other posters, and you don't even know who you're speaking to some of the time.

It's just nonsense to assume that Jeremy would have had a shower that time of night, but you keep on and on insisting that he must have had one. Don't bother to threaten me - I'm not a shrinking violet myself.

No, you're another idiot! It's common sense that a farm worker would have a shower. You're no fence sitter!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:12:PM
No, you're another idiot! It's common sense that a farm worker would have a shower. You're no fence sitter!

Oh please - you know I'm not an idiot.  ^-^

Why does saying that Jeremy didn't necessarily have a shower mean I'm not a fence sitter? Are we judging his guilt or innocence on whether he showers at night or not now?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:12:PM
You're carrying on the debate. Your obsession must be as great -or MORE great- than anyone else's.

Are you speaking for yourself or for Caroline now? It's difficult to tell.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 08:13:PM
Blimey,I've only had a cup of tea and a sandwich and it's started------------again. ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 08:14:PM
The author Carol Ann Lee interviewed Dr. Hugh Cameron Ferguson in 2013, where he explained that Sheila admitted to taking cannabis and cocaine "in a social context".
Sherlock suggested that Sheila had smoked cocaine, I haven't seen any evidence of this myself however I thought it worth pointing out that smoking cocaine is nothing like smoking cannabis.  It is not a social drug and users are likely to binge on it often in solitude, taking hit after hit as each one only lasts 30 minutes.  The highs are massively intense but short lived.... about 30 mins.  It is a killer causing strokes and heart attacks.  A thoroughly nasty drug which causes a hangover of rage and out of control behavour.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:15:PM
Are you speaking for yourself or for Caroline now? It's difficult to tell.

Another one  who makes the discussion  about posters and not the post - usually the more obsessed members do that. It's a diversion from the topic, usually happens when you strike a chord!  ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:15:PM
You're the one who's answering for other posters, and you don't even know who you're speaking to some of the time.

It's just nonsense to assume that Jeremy would have had a shower that time of night, but you keep on and on insisting that he must have had one. Don't bother to threaten me - I'm not a shrinking violet myself.

Just what IS the point of your presence here, on this thread or any other. You don't actually seem to care one way or the other about a shower -I believe you did something very similar re the bible cover- but I'm willing to bet that if we insisted that he'd have been so tired he'd gone to bed dirty, you'd have insisted he'd have showered before he went to bed.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:16:PM
Another one  who makes the discussion  about posters and not the post - usually the more obsessed members do that. It's a diversion from the topic, usually happens when you strike a chord!  ::)

Haha! You and your two mates spend hours discussing other posters.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:16:PM
Blimey,I've only had a cup of tea and a sandwich and it's started------------again. ::)

Yes, go back and take a look at the thread - Kaldin threw the first stone but I git a pile of bricks here with name on them!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 08:17:PM
Blimey,I've only had a cup of tea and a sandwich and it's started------------again. ::)

Hahaha Lookout please don't sneak off for a three course meal ;D ;D :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 09, 2017, 08:18:PM
Haha! You and your two mates spend hours discussing other posters.

Do stop trolling.  :))
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 08:18:PM
Sheila snorted the cocaine as opposed to smoking it as somewhere it mentions " lines of cocaine " at a party.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:20:PM
Haha! You and your two mates spend hours discussing other posters.
You thought you would take the piss from the beginning of this discussion. It's clear you were being sarcastic and goading. You've done it since you can back - albeit in a subtle manner. Like I said, you're no fence sitter.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:21:PM
What exactly are some people saying here?

Oooh, Jeremy had a shower and didn't mention it - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Or

Oooh, Jeremy didn't have a shower at night - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Are you people for real?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:22:PM
You thought you would take the piss from the beginning of this discussion. It's clear you were being sarcastic and goading. You've done it since you can back - albeit in a subtle manner. Like I said, you're no fence sitter.

Don't tell me what I thought. You're the one being absurd - insisting that someone would have had a shower is ridiculous.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:22:PM
What exactly are some people saying here?

Oooh, Jeremy had a shower and didn't mention it - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Or

Oooh, Jeremy didn't have a shower at night - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Are you people for real?

WoW! True colours!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 08:22:PM
Sheila snorted the cocaine as opposed to smoking it as somewhere it mentions " lines of cocaine " at a party.
Yes it doesn't exactly name her as being involved though.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:23:PM
Yes, go back and take a look at the thread - Kaldin threw the first stone but I git a pile of bricks here with name on them!

No I didn't. I was merely discussing the issue of a shower or no-shower, and you and Jane got all arsy.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:23:PM
WoW! True colours!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well which is it Caroline?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 08:24:PM
Sherlock suggested that Sheila had smoked cocaine, I haven't seen any evidence of this myself however I thought it worth pointing out that smoking cocaine is nothing like smoking cannabis.  It is not a social drug and users are likely to binge on it often in solitude, taking hit after hit as each one only lasts 30 minutes.  The highs are massively intense but short lived.... about 30 mins.  It is a killer causing strokes and heart attacks.  A thoroughly nasty drug which causes a hangover of rage and out of control behavour.
That's interesting Maggie. Are people able to function fully during this cocaine binge?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 08:24:PM
Hahaha Lookout please don't sneak off for a three course meal ;D ;D :)) :)) :))






It was just a snack as I had my tea at 5,so fancied a cheese sandwich  :)) :)) :)) :)) honest. x
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 09, 2017, 08:25:PM
Yes it doesn't exactly name her as being involved though.






Saved by the bell-----thanks Steve.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:27:PM
What exactly are some people saying here?

Oooh, Jeremy had a shower and didn't mention it - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Or

Oooh, Jeremy didn't have a shower at night - he must be guilty of murdering five people!

Are you people for real?

It just goes to show how little you've involved yourself if you have to ask the question. The case is highly emotive. MOST of us have strong opinions. MOST passions run high. Yours seem quite non existent. Whatever is being said, you seem to find it amusing to argue the opposite.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:27:PM
Don't tell me what I thought. You're the one being absurd - insisting that someone would have had a shower is ridiculous.

Anyone who does a dirty job would shower at night. You're the one being ridiculous or maybe your hygien is just questionable! 
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 09, 2017, 08:27:PM





It was just a snack as I had my tea at 5,so fancied a cheese sandwich  :)) :)) :)) :)) honest. x

Which reminds me, I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of the claims you made earlier lookout

You said you write to Bamber so it's obvious it was him who told you lies

Why are you backing a liar?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:28:PM
Don't tell me what I thought. You're the one being absurd - insisting that someone would have had a shower is ridiculous.

And insisting that they wouldn't, isn't?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:28:PM
It just goes to show how little you've involved yourself if you have to ask the question. The case is highly emotive. MOST of us have strong opinions. MOST passions run high. Yours seem quite non existent. Whatever is being said, you seem to find it amusing to argue the opposite.

It appears to be what some of you are saying. If it's not what you're saying, what is the relevance of his showering habits?

Are you suggesting I should just say I agree with someone even if I disagree with them?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:29:PM
And insisting that they wouldn't, isn't?

I didn't insist that they wouldn't, I said that they might not, or they might have one in the morning.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:29:PM
Well which is it Caroline?

Steve hit the nail on the head, while you're busy trying to be Billy Big Bollocks you've totally missed the point!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 08:29:PM
That's interesting Maggie. Are people able to function fully during this cocaine binge?
Think not really as they are so high they'e flying on a different planet as far as far as I know the dangerous time is after the binge when the mood plummets and instability and rage takes over.  That is the time such people are most likely to be dangerous.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:30:PM
Anyone who does a dirty job would shower at night. You're the one being ridiculous or maybe your hygien is just questionable!

Who says so? Why do you think they wouldn't have a shower the next morning?

You see who's chucking the abuse around? It's you.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:30:PM
Steve hit the nail on the head, while you're busy trying to be Billy Big Bollocks you've totally missed the point!

He hit nothing on the head, except perhaps you.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:30:PM
It's just one more omission worth commenting on: psychologically he was attempting to deceive with his alibi, which he had detailed in his mind, but forgot the shower he should have had when he came home. It buttresses Julie's evidence that he hadn't been to bed that night.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:31:PM


There's no "should" about it. Not everyone wants to leap into the shower at 10pm.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:33:PM
He hit nothing on the head, except perhaps you.

Yes he did, he understood the point, you didn't and just keep insisting that dirty people get into clean beds until the morning when they have a shower before they go out to work and get dirty again! Like - that makes sense?  ::)
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:34:PM
There's no "should" about it. Not everyone wants to leap into the shower at 10pm.

No they like to get into a clean bed covered in farm dust and shower in the morning just before leavig again to get covered in dust! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 08:34:PM
It just goes to show how little you've involved yourself if you have to ask the question. The case is highly emotive. MOST of us have strong opinions. MOST passions run high. Yours seem quite non existent. Whatever is being said, you seem to find it amusing to argue the opposite.
I have to say I am with kaldin Jane, I am not emotionally involved in this case anymore.  My only hope is that JB is where he should be because if he is innocent it is beyond tragic.
If he's guilty and he's in prison why should I care?  He deserves to be where he is. :-X
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:34:PM
Yes he did, he understood the point, you didn't and just keep insisting that dirty people get into clean beds until the morning when they have a shower before they go out to work and get dirty again! Like - that makes sense?  ::)

In what way did he understand the point? He's talking about what Jeremy "should" have done - ie, have a shower. There's no "should" about it.

Some people feel that they'd prefer a shower when they get out of bed - makes them feel fresher for the day. I don't know why you find that so weird.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:36:PM
In what way did he understand the point? He's talking about what Jeremy "should" have done - ie, have a shower. There's no "should" about it.

Some people feel that they'd prefer a shower when they get out of bed - makes them feel fresher for the day. I don't know why you find that so weird.

I think you understand the point well.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:36:PM
No they like to get into a clean bed covered in farm dust and shower in the morning just before leavig again to get covered in dust! ;D ;D ;D

They might think there's no point having a shower at night if they're going to be asleep, and they'd rather have one in the morning when they can appreciate it more. If he's getting covered in dust every day it makes little difference when he has a shower - it's down to personal preference.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:37:PM
I think you understand the point well.

I understand it, I just don't agree with it, and I don't know why you think it's so logical.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 08:38:PM
In what way did he understand the point? He's talking about what Jeremy "should" have done - ie, have a shower. There's no "should" about it.

Some people feel that they'd prefer a shower when they get out of bed - makes them feel fresher for the day. I don't know why you find that so weird.
Since he was not reported as having smelled by Police one assumes he had showered at some point. Was it in his statement?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 09, 2017, 08:38:PM
Caroline I am quite aware what happens on farms I live on one.  The point I was making not everyone showers at night some in the morning my comments were general not aiming at farmers.  I am sure if Jeremy was covered in dust he would have showered the fact he did not mention it does not mean he did not have one.  Perhaps he had one before he killed his family but it would have made more sense for him to have one after he murdered them if indeed he did murder them.

Did his house even have a shower?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:38:PM
I didn't insist that they wouldn't, I said that they might not, or they might have one in the morning.

Had it been any other time than Harvest, you'd have a valid point, BUT you've argued that there was no reason -having worked the best part of a 17 hour day- why he'd be either dirty, dusty, sweaty, smelly -possibly blood spattered- whilst a balance of probabilities suggests he'd be likely to be all these things.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2017, 08:38:PM
They might think there's no point having a shower at night if they're going to be asleep, and they'd rather have one in the morning when they can appreciate it more. If he's getting covered in dust every day it makes little difference when he has a shower - it's down to personal preference.

Normality goes out of the window in Bamber land! That's some hold!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:41:PM
Had it been any other time than Harvest, you'd have a valid point, BUT you've argued that there was no reason -having worked the best part of a 17 hour day- why he'd be either dirty, dusty, sweaty, smelly -possibly blood spattered- whilst a balance of probabilities suggests he'd be likely to be all these things.

Well there isn't a particular reason if he got home at 10pm. Perhaps he couldn't be bothered, perhaps he preferred to watch the TV, or whatever. Who was there to care if he was dusty or not?

He wouldn't be blood spattered when he got home at 10pm would he?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 08:42:PM
I sense things may be getting personal.

Can posters please stick to the debate rather than attacking the poster.  cheers
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:42:PM
Since he was not reported as having smelled by Police one assumes he had showered at some point. Was it in his statement?

Now I've heard everything.  ;D

Maybe he had a shower the morning of 6th August!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:43:PM
I have to say I am with kaldin Jane, I am not emotionally involved in this case anymore.  My only hope is that JB is where he should be because if he is innocent it is beyond tragic.
If he's guilty and he's in prison why should I care?  He deserves to be where he is. :-X

All of which makes rather more sense than Kaldin dragging out something they appear to have absolutely no interest in other than amusement value.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 09, 2017, 08:44:PM
Now I've heard everything.  ;D

Maybe he had a shower the morning of 6th August!
But he had been harvesting all day. Julie's nickname for him was Stinko.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 08:45:PM
All of which makes rather more sense than Kaldin dragging out something they appear to have absolutely no interest in other than amusement value.
Maybe he just feels he needs to make a point, can't see that he's doing any harm. :-\
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 08:45:PM
Did his house even have a shower?

Hello Hartley that is a very good point and one I cannot answer but maybe some on the forum can I honestly cannot remember this point ever being raised.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:48:PM
But he had been harvesting all day. Julie's nickname for him was Stinko.

So maybe he didn't care about having a shower after work.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:50:PM
Did his house even have a shower?

Yes, it was downstairs. My friends have one at the back of what they call "the gun room". It's used by the guns when they come back from shoots.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 08:50:PM
But he had been harvesting all day. Julie's nickname for him was Stinko.

Hello steve
never heard that before is it written in her diary.  It is so strange I live on a farm (dairy at that) and when any of the guys come in for coffee they never smell otherwise I would sit them outside and they can picnic :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:52:PM
Yes, it was downstairs. My friends have one at the back of what they call "the gun room". It's used by the guns when they come back from shoots.

In Jeremy's house? Did it have a gun room?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: susan on October 09, 2017, 08:53:PM
In Jeremy's house? Did it have a gun room?

Kaldin I always thought Jeremy had a small cottage like a two up and two down Hartley may help us here.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 08:54:PM
Kaldin I always thought Jeremy had a small cottage like a two up and two down Hartley may help us here.

It doesn't look like a house which would have a gun room, it's just a little semi.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 09, 2017, 08:56:PM
In Jeremy's house? Did it have a gun room?

No, it didn't. I was talking about WHF. I misread H's question.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 09:22:PM
By the way, Jeremy said that he got up at 7am on 6th August, so why would he have to get up at 4am on 7th August?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 09, 2017, 09:27:PM
I can't imagine not showering after a day of work on the farm. Bamber was quite detailed in what he did after leaving.  Although his story always seemed set in stone and he was only willing to give across information or answers that he wished to. He was telling the truth as much as he possibly could do, without giving the game away. Later on down the line, there was a lot of "No comments" - which I've always found out of place.


You seem charming, I can see we're going to get on well. ;D

Do you actually work on a farm? Perhaps he was tired, or couldn't be bothered.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: guest154 on October 09, 2017, 09:29:PM
Do you actually work on a farm? Perhaps he was tired, or couldn't be bothered.

Or perhaps he showered. I wasn't there, so I have no clue. And it isn't even that interesting. I can only say it would be strange TO ME if he didn't.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: maggie on October 09, 2017, 09:42:PM
I have locked this thread until I have time to sort it out.
Maybe it's time you all changed the subject.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: sherlock on October 10, 2017, 01:01:PM


So she must have showered after about 10pm then ....
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: lookout on October 10, 2017, 01:05:PM
So she must have showered after about 10pm then ....







Well after I'd say.In fact after she'd killed everyone and before she ate a snack.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Stephanie on October 10, 2017, 01:07:PM
So she must have showered after about 10pm then ....

We will probably never know

Many murderers take the secrets of their crimes to the grave. Jeremy Bamber is no different. He may confess one day, who knows, though unlikely. He needs the attention his notoriety brings him. It's his fuel that just keeps on giving  ::)

Silly man could have been out by now if he'd confessed and reformed himself. The fact he didn't further supports he's a psychopath. They don't think that far ahead.  ::)


Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Steve_uk on October 11, 2017, 09:04:PM
We will probably never know

Many murderers take the secrets of their crimes to the grave. Jeremy Bamber is no different. He may confess one day, who knows, though unlikely. He needs the attention his notoriety brings him. It's his fuel that just keeps on giving  ::)

Silly man could have been out by now if he'd confessed and reformed himself. The fact he didn't further supports he's a psychopath. They don't think that far ahead.  ::)
I'm not sure that's true.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 14, 2017, 04:22:PM
By the way, I found a reference to bathing in one of Jeremy's interviews. He said "Rang Julie, I watched some TV, I think I bathed but I don't remember ..."

It seems he didn't have a shower in the house, and he might have bathed, or he might not.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37772;image
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Hartley. on October 14, 2017, 04:26:PM
By the way, I found a reference to bathing in one of Jeremy's interviews. He said "Rang Julie, I watched some TV, I think I bathed but I don't remember ..."

It seems he didn't have a shower in the house, and he might have bathed, or he might not.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37772;image

Haha good find.

I wasn't convinced there was a shower in his house.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Kaldin on October 14, 2017, 04:27:PM
Haha good find.

I wasn't convinced there was a shower in his house.

 ;D
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 08, 2018, 10:32:PM
Ever wondered when Jeremy had a shower? He seems to have neglected mentioning it in his list of stuff he did after returning home that evening?

Well, I knew I had heard mention of a bath or a shower - thanks to Myster from Red, we now have Jeremy's own words talking about having a bath on the night of the murders. Something he neglected to mention in his statements at the time - even though he went into detail about what he watched on TV - a bath would add nothing to his alibi but the times of TV programmes would.

https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/tracks
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2018, 11:02:AM
By the way, I found a reference to bathing in one of Jeremy's interviews. He said "Rang Julie, I watched some TV, I think I bathed but I don't remember ..."

It seems he didn't have a shower in the house, and he might have bathed, or he might not.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37772;image

This is a cassic case of someone arguing against a vaild point then shifting the goal posts. Bath or shower makes no bloody difference whatsoever! The point is he remembered specific TV programmes which because they have a start and end time, add to his alibi but he can't remember whether or not he had a bath? Come on!  ::) - He was pretty sure 25 years later when Eric Allinson interviewed him! He didn't mention having a bath at the time because he didn't have one because he didn't go to bed and only added it later when he realised it's something he would normally do.
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 09, 2018, 06:02:PM
This is a cassic case of someone arguing against a vaild point then shifting the goal posts. Bath or shower makes no bloody difference whatsoever! The point is he remembered specific TV programmes which because they have a start and end time, add to his alibi but he can't remember whether or not he had a bath? Come on!  ::) - He was pretty sure 25 years later when Eric Allinson interviewed him! He didn't mention having a bath at the time because he didn't have one because he didn't go to bed and only added it later when he realised it's something he would normally do.

As you have already acknowledged "he can't remember whether or not he had a bath" hence he did mention having a bath only that he was not sure of it. In the same post you have already twisted this into him not mentioning a bath at all. The claim upon which your argument is dependent on is false.

This false claim of yours then requires us to assume that what is not mentioned simply never happened and on-top of that assume that he wont go to bed without having a bath.  This is not even an argument. Its an attempt to conjure something out of nothing.


Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 09, 2018, 09:04:PM
As you have already acknowledged "he can't remember whether or not he had a bath" hence he did mention having a bath only that he was not sure of it. In the same post you have already twisted this into him not mentioning a bath at all. The claim upon which your argument is dependent on is false.

This false claim of yours then requires us to assume that what is not mentioned simply never happened and on-top of that assume that he wont go to bed without having a bath.  This is not even an argument. Its an attempt to conjure something out of nothing.

I didn't acknowledge that! He said that but 25 yyears later he claims he did. Why don't you try reading things properly and use some common sense! Of course he would remember if he had a bath or not and to claim otherwise is complete stupidity!
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: David1819 on October 10, 2018, 04:52:PM
I didn't acknowledge that! He said that but 25 yyears later he claims he did. Why don't you try reading things properly and use some common sense! Of course he would remember if he had a bath or not and to claim otherwise is complete stupidity!

you've lost your marbles
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Jane on October 10, 2018, 05:27:PM
Of course, if there never was an answer machine pre murders, what form of scotch mist did police remove in the alleged form of 5(?) tapes...................and how is it that one phone has suddenly become two?
Title: Re: What clothes was Sheila wearing in the evening ...
Post by: Caroline on October 10, 2018, 06:47:PM
you've lost your marbles

This is what you always do when you have no reply. Bamber didn't mention having a shower/bath when he came home from work - because he didn't have one. He didn't have one then because he stuff to do.