Jeremy Bamber Forum

OTHER HIGH PROFILE CASES => Other high profile cases => Topic started by: mike tesko on February 23, 2011, 11:38:PM

Title: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 23, 2011, 11:38:PM
The case of Madeleine McCann
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on February 25, 2011, 07:59:PM
Sad beyond belief not knowing if shes alive or dead!

Poor little girl must have been so frightened and confused!

Lots of sympathy for parents they must be racked with guilt! But id never leave my daughter in an hotel room alone they are lucky the other two children wernt taken also!

Find it strange a child can dissapear without trace nobdy will ever know what happened to her now.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on February 26, 2011, 04:31:PM
An extraordinary case.

I spent hundreds of hours tracking this with the help of some guys in Portugal.

I always work in to out on my assumptions, that is to say the closest route, insider knowledge and location to the crime. At one stage I came across some info that pointed towards the involvement of the parents. I emailed the relevant documentation to Leicestershire Constabulary.

The parents were totally to blame anyway, in as much that they left the children alone night after night - not to mention dropping them off at every available opportunity in the daytime, and perhaps, in doing so, created an opportunity for someone with knowledge of this.

I do not believe international gangs were involved in any way.

The police in Portugal believed, and still do believe, that the break-in to the apartment was fabricated by the McCanns.

I would be very interested to hear anyone's views on this - especially those of Mike Tesko who has taken some very good shots of the area.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 26, 2011, 04:34:PM
An extraordinary case.

I spent hundreds of hours tracking this with the help of some guys in Portugal.

I always work in to out on my assumptions, that is to say the closest route, insider knowledge and location to the crime. At one stage I came across some info that pointed towards the involvement of the parents. I emailed the relevant documentation to Leicestershire Constabulary.

The parents were totally to blame anyway, in as much that they left the children alone night after night - not to mention dropping them off at every available opportunity in the daytime, and perhaps, in doing so, created an opportunity for someone with knowledge of this.

I do not believe international gangs were involved in any way.

The police in Portugal believed, and still do believe, that the break-in to the apartment was fabricated by the McCanns.

I would be very interested to hear anyone's views on this - especially those of Mike Tesko who has taken some very good shots of the area.
----------------------------------------------

I spent a week at the resort, and took hundreds of pictures...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 26, 2011, 05:04:PM
Ghost of Maddie

"God bless her soul"...

She is gone, never to be returned...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 26, 2011, 05:20:PM
I hope I am wrong, but the angel known as Maddie is with god...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on February 26, 2011, 05:21:PM
Mike are we ok to start threads on any other cases now???
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 26, 2011, 05:25:PM
Mike are we ok to start threads on any other cases now???
-----------------------

Yes, of course, go ahead, let the discussions begin, any case, anywhere, anytime. I am all ears...

Remember to name the case you are wanting to talk about, and start a new category...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Elizabeth on February 26, 2011, 07:25:PM
Sadly, no i don't think that little Maddie is still alive. Not after all this time  :'(.

I feel awful for writing this (in case the parents are not involved in any way), but after viewing most (if not all) of the interviews the McCann's gave to the media, i can't help but think that something fishy is going on. Gerry McCann, in particular, has acted very strange at times, and they both have said some peculiar things which just don't quite sit right. You only need know the basics of body language to get the strong impression that they know much more about what happened on that night  than they are letting on. It is a terribly sad case.

Mike, could you explain more about that picture you posted. I am not quite sure what we are supposed to be seeing.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 26, 2011, 07:51:PM
Sadly, no i don't think that little Maddie is still alive. Not after all this time  :'(.

I feel awful for writing this (in case the parents are not involved in any way), but after viewing most (if not all) of the interviews the McCann's gave to the media, i can't help but think that something fishy is going on. Gerry McCann, in particular, has acted very strange at times, and they both have said some peculiar things which just don't quite sit right. You only need know the basics of body language to get the strong impression that they know much more about what happened on that night  than they are letting on. It is a terribly sad case.

Mike, could you explain more about that picture you posted. I am not quite sure what we are supposed to be seeing.
-------------------------

Image of child to left / middle of picture, by edge of mattress on floor of derelict building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on February 26, 2011, 08:00:PM
For Elizabeth,

I agree with you about the body language of the McCanns - especially that of Gerry.

One of the things I heard at the time, was that Maddies body had been disposed of before the McCann's raised the alarm.

The theory that she died in the apartment cannot be discounted.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Reader on February 27, 2011, 12:57:AM
Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Elizabeth on February 27, 2011, 01:09:AM
Thanks for that, Mike!  :(

For Sparkfilms: Yes, it does look increasingly likely that Maddie never even left that apartment. Especially when you take into account the evidence the cadaver dogs picked up there. For a long time i believed their official story and it never once crossed my mind that they could be involved. It was just unthinkable! Now though i am starting to think otherwise...like many others do. As for the wider conspiracy theories discussed on other internet sites, i am not quite ready to believe those. The realisation that they may have caused the accidental death of Maddie, then lied to the public all this time, is hard enough to stomach as it is.

Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?
Possibly, yes. It would certainly help matters.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 27, 2011, 01:45:PM
Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?
-----------------------

I have to be honest, if the McCanns took a lie detector test, and passed it, I would question my logic about this case...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on February 27, 2011, 04:35:PM
Mike Tesko, at scene where Maddie vanished from, in May 2007:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on February 27, 2011, 06:37:PM
The McCann's took something akin to a lie detector test when they answered a series of questions in Portugal accordingly....

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I may be one or two out, but this is pretty much how it was.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: zeppler53 on February 28, 2011, 09:59:PM
An extraordinary case.

I spent hundreds of hours tracking this with the help of some guys in Portugal.

I always work in to out on my assumptions, that is to say the closest route, insider knowledge and location to the crime. At one stage I came across some info that pointed towards the involvement of the parents. I emailed the relevant documentation to Leicestershire Constabulary.

The parents were totally to blame anyway, in as much that they left the children alone night after night - not to mention dropping them off at every available opportunity in the daytime, and perhaps, in doing so, created an opportunity for someone with knowledge of this.

I do not believe international gangs were involved in any way.

The police in Portugal believed, and still do believe, that the break-in to the apartment was fabricated by the McCanns.

I would be very interested to hear anyone's views on this - especially those of Mike Tesko who has taken some very good shots of the area.
I totally agree with you.The whole thing was engineered by someone,and the finger definitely points their way.Who in their right mind would have left kids in an apartment on their own,especially in a strange country.The way the McCanns acted in the days following the supposed abduction was questionable.I think the fact that they were both doctors was the reason they got such unbridled support from the british goverment,and have often wondered what the reaction would have been if it was lesser people.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lucy70 on March 01, 2011, 08:01:PM
Have read a little about this case and one of the only facts that seems to be consistently reported on is that the parents never went out and physically searched for Madelaine at any time after she was reported missing.  As a parent myself I find this fact to be really weird as I know that I would definitely be out there looking for however long it took if that was my child. Just find it kinda freaky that they never did and have to ask why that would be??
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on March 01, 2011, 08:24:PM
Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?

Why would anybody be swayed either way by a lie detector test? They are notoriously unreliable and are not admissible in court - at least not in a UK court. I'm afraid I get annoyed when anybody mentions them as though they add some form of "scientific" evidence to a case one way or another - they don't, and are therefore best ignored completely.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on March 01, 2011, 08:44:PM
I wondered at the time if Maddie had been kidnapped for ransom, but when the case went global so quickly the kidnapper(s) panicked and disposed of Maddie. It was said that a small boat went out to sea late one night, not long after her disappearance.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: zeppler53 on March 02, 2011, 01:12:AM
I wondered at the time if Maddie had been kidnapped for ransom, but when the case went global so quickly the kidnapper(s) panicked and disposed of Maddie. It was said that a small boat went out to sea late one night, not long after her disappearance.
Kidnap,Abduction,Murder,not a chance,at least not by a stranger.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on March 04, 2011, 10:50:PM
I have been to the resort, and stayed at the same hotel complex, I am not trying to defend what the McCanns did, but I can see why they thought it was safe to leave their children unsupervised inside their apartment, whilst they wined and dined, a hundred or so yards away, at the tapas bar...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on March 06, 2011, 10:27:PM
Side entrance (concrete steps) leading up to apartment 5a, where Maddie disappeared from on 3rd May 2007...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on March 08, 2011, 08:38:PM
The Church at PDL, Portugal - a "favorite haunt" of the McCann Parents...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mb1 on March 17, 2011, 02:08:AM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on March 28, 2011, 08:08:PM
I have been to the resort, and stayed at the same hotel complex, I am not trying to defend what the McCanns did, but I can see why they thought it was safe to leave their children unsupervised inside their apartment, whilst they wined and dined, a hundred or so yards away, at the tapas bar...

It would have made no difference whether they had dined on the premises or in a nearby establishment, the outcome would have been the same.  Nobody asked an intruder to enter their apartment and abduct their daughter.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on March 29, 2011, 10:51:PM
I have been to the resort, and stayed at the same hotel complex, I am not trying to defend what the McCanns did, but I can see why they thought it was safe to leave their children unsupervised inside their apartment, whilst they wined and dined, a hundred or so yards away, at the tapas bar...

It would have made no difference whether they had dined on the premises or in a nearby establishment, the outcome would have been the same.  Nobody asked an intruder to enter their apartment and abduct their daughter.

I read that book by that portugese copper... the one that was plastered over the tabloid front pages enjoying "boozey" lunches.  I must admit, I went 80/20 against the McCann's.  I'm not sure of the technical legal reasons for the book getting banned but they pulled it back round a bit to 70/30 when that happened.  But there was a lot of speculation in that book so maybe i'm being unfair. I'm starting to have doubts that they could bluff it out to the extent and levels that they have campaigned.  It's another puzzler this one.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 01, 2011, 11:00:PM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
--------------------

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:33:AM
Anyone posting images of mine which they have edited will be removed...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 03:34:AM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
--------------------

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...


That is absolute rubbish Mike and what's more you know it!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:36:AM
The church at PDL was / is a favorite haunt of the McCann parents, and I believe that the child was buried in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church...

This building, and these grounds were not searched by the police dogs during the investigation...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:37:AM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
--------------------

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...


That is absolute rubbish Mike and what's more you know it!
--------------------

Its rubbish that the parents claim they know nothing about what really happened to their daughter...

Anyway, whats your rubbish theory?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 03:37:AM
So how do you know that?   Were you with them?  Now you are being simply silly!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:39:AM
Once that derelict building and its grounds are searched, it will be officially identified as the place where they disposed of the body...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 03:40:AM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
--------------------

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...


That is absolute rubbish Mike and what's more you know it!
--------------------

Its rubbish that the parents claim they know nothing about what really happened to their daughter...

Anyway, whats your rubbish theory?

Why would that be exactly?  They know she was in bed when they checked and then she was gone when they went back some time later.  What else were they expected to do?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 03:42:AM
Once that derelict building and its grounds are searched, it will be officially identified as the place where they disposed of the body...

All areas have been searched Mike, your assertion to the contrary is just nonsense. Maddy isn't buried anywhere and it is disingenuous for you to say she is when you haven't the slightest proof of this.  What you believe and what is fact are two different things Mike I am afraid.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:46:AM
Mike, please could you offer further explanation of the following JPegs:

1220601
1290492/93/94
1290-537/527

Always thought the odd detail was Kate looking 'coiffed' and wearing different earrings every day. I was intrigued by the earrings. It meant she spent time every day carefully choosing what to put in her ears whilst her daughter was missing.

That's my only direct comment! Some people are libel happy...
--------------------

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...


That is absolute rubbish Mike and what's more you know it!
--------------------

Its rubbish that the parents claim they know nothing about what really happened to their daughter...

Anyway, whats your rubbish theory?

Why would that be exactly?  They know she was in bed when they checked and then she was gone when they went back some time later.  What else were they expected to do?
------------------

Yes, she was gone by the time Kate went back to the apartment, but the parents and some of their friends knew about it, and what happened. Where do you want to start, at what stage do you want to start talking about this case? My theory is not rubbish, its been well researched and investigated. The parents have not told the truth, and at one stage even Kate was saying that the police would find Maddie's body in a drain down by the coastline / shore...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:47:AM
Once that derelict building and its grounds are searched, it will be officially identified as the place where they disposed of the body...

All areas have been searched Mike, your assertion to the contrary is just nonsense. Maddy isn't buried anywhere and it is disingenuous for you to say she is when you haven't the slightest proof of this.  What you believe and what is fact are two different things Mike I am afraid.
------------------

You wait and see...

Parents will have to face the music at some point, I'm afraid...

This is the drain where Kate told an interpretor that the police would find Maddie's body:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:52:AM
Why would Kate be saying that Maddie's body would be found in this drain?

Where did she get that information from?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 03:56:AM
Here are some more views of the drain where Kate said the body of Maddie would be found:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:00:AM
Look what building is in the background - its the church at PDL, a favorite haunt of the McCann parents...

Now, why would Kate be telling an interpreter that her daughters body would be found in this drain, if she did not know or believe that her body had been / was there at and by that stage?

Did she just make it up?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:03:AM
Or...

Do you think Kate was referring to another drain, in the area not a horizontal drain, but one of several vertical drains on that part of the shoreline?

I will post photographs of these additional vertical drains in due course, but for the time being I would like to familiarize everyone with the general layout of the area surrounding this horizontal drain near to the church...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 04:13:AM
Mike, the parents are supposed to be very religous. Dont you think they would have given her a decent burial, and certainly not of put her down a drain.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:17:AM
Mike, the parents are supposed to be very religous. Dont you think they would have given her a decent burial, and certainly not of put her down a drain.
-----------------

Her remains are not down the drain - this drain was searched by the police and their dogs, and by volunteers, but I mention it because that is where Kate told the interpreter that they would find Maddie's body...

Now my point is, why would she have been suggesting this / that?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:21:AM
Lets look back in the direction of the viewpoint where the horizontal drain where Kate said the body of Maddie would be found:-

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:24:AM
The church is on the left of the road, and the car hire shop where the McCanns later hired the car that became a focus for the Portuguese investigation is located just out of shot, on the right hand side...

Viewpoint where Horizontal drain is located is down at the bottom of the hill towards sea...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:26:AM
Another view:-

The location of the derelict building that I have been talking about is situated on the right of this road that leads down to the viewpoint, and located directly opposite the church at PDL...

It was inside the church that the McCann parents appeared to find sanctuary - within a stones throw of the derelict building and its grounds, and of course,m the drains which are dotted around the coastline, not too far away...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:29:AM
It was in this direction, that Kate told an interpretor that Maddie's body would be found in the drain...

Acting on this information, the police searched the drain and found no body there...

But was kate referring to a different drain?

How many drains are / were there in that area, or along that part of the shoreline?

Certainly one  huge horizontal drain there, and several vertical drains, which became of interest to me when  I visited the scene...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 04:40:AM
Any thereories of how Maddie died
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:42:AM
Any thereories of how Maddie died
-------------------

Yes, of course, don't most people?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:45:AM
Here are a few images of the derelict building that I believe became the focus for where / how the body of Maddie was disposed of:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:48:AM
The church is directly across the road from this derelict building...

If you were stood inside the derelict building, and you looked out through the window, directly across the street is the church, as shown by the following views:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:54:AM
It was inside this derelict building that I took a photograph which I call or refer to as "the ghost of Maddie":-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:59:AM
If you were stood inside the church, and you looked back through its doors, you would see the derelict building across the road:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 05:00:AM
Most people may have a theory, but I dont have a clue. If it was an accident, which I assume it was surely the parents would have said. These things can happen on holiday when your guard is down. Yes it was stupid to leave the children alone, but they must have thought it safe, as they were close by.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:03:AM
Most people may have a theory, but I dont have a clue. If it was an accident, which I assume it was surely the parents would have said. These things can happen on holiday when your guard is down. Yes it was stupid to leave the children alone, but they must have thought it safe, as they were close by.
-------------------

Parents have been criticized for leaving their children in their apartment, but so did the other group members who had children - but the others did not leave the door to their apartment open and unlocked...

Why would you go out and leave your children in the apartment, alone at night and leave the door unlocked?

Who knew that the door to the apartment was left unlocked?

Kate?

Jerry?

Who else / and when?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:08:AM
You would not believe how much rotting vegetation and piles of rubbish there was / is strewn about behind the walls of the derelict building that I have drawn everyones attention to...

Its the kind of place where you could easily conceal or hide the body of a small child, at least temporarily...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:10:AM
Yes, the parents were very religious, and the church / derelict building across the road / and the drains in the are are all linked to Maddie's disappearance that night...

at least in my view...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:12:AM
By the time Kate got around to confessing to the interpreter that the body of Maddie would be found in the drain near the viewpoint - it of course had already been moved and concealed in the grounds of the derelict building across the road from the church...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:23:AM
Church at PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 10:10:AM
The horizontal drain, the derelict building and the church at PDL, are situated and located very close to one another - Movement of a body, or people between one or other under the cover of darkness would be a relatively simple exercise to complete...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 12:04:PM
Lovely snaps Mike but that's where the reality ends in what you posted.  I wonder does the fact that yesterday was 1st April have anything to do with such nonsense??   ;) ;)

(http://www.artie.com/april_fools/arg-april-fool-207x165-url.gif)

Fact:  There is no evidence of any sort that Maddy is dead.  On the other hand there is every possibility that she is alive and well and was indeed abducted from her parents apartment.

Kate never confessed to anyone about Maddy's death, any mention of a drain (if such ever took place in the first place) is pure speculation and being used out of all context.

Nice try though !!  :)  :)

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: grahame on April 02, 2011, 12:58:PM

Image, 1290527 - is the location where I believe the remains of Maddie McCann were / are buried...
Why didn't you did them up then?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: grahame on April 02, 2011, 01:00:PM
The McCann's took something akin to a lie detector test when they answered a series of questions in Portugal accordingly....

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I may be one or two out, but this is pretty much how it was.
What questions were they asked?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:31:PM
Lovely snaps Mike but that's where the reality ends in what you posted.  I wonder does the fact that yesterday was 1st April have anything to do with such nonsense??   ;) ;)

(http://www.artie.com/april_fools/arg-april-fool-207x165-url.gif)

Fact:  There is no evidence of any sort that Maddy is dead.  On the other hand there is every possibility that she is alive and well and was indeed abducted from her parents apartment.

Kate never confessed to anyone about Maddy's death, any mention of a drain (if such ever took place in the first place) is pure speculation and being used out of all context.

Nice try though !!  :)  :)
------------------------

The only April fool is you, because Kate did tell an interpreter that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in a drain near to the viewpoint...

A witness statement exists from the interpreter, explaining that once |Kate confided in him, that he reported the matter to the police in Portugal...

Get your facts right...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 04:34:PM
The substance of the reply is irrelevant since it is the physiological reaction by the body that the detector responds to.

A "no comment" reply can consequently still provide a negative or a positive result to which the tester can respond appropriately.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 04:35:PM
Maddie is dead, even Kate believed she was dead, hence why she told the interpreter that her body was being hidden and concealed in the drain down by the viewpoint...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 04:47:PM
Maddie is dead, even Kate believed she was dead, hence why she told the interpreter that her body was being hidden and concealed in the drain down by the viewpoint...

If Kate is aware that Maddy is dead why prolong the issue as they have done.  Best thing would be to go away quietly since they would have nothing to gain.

The McCann's obviously don't believe this for a minute contrary to what you state Mike on the basis of what some Portuguese interpreter was supposed to have heard.  I am well versed in relation to Portuguese and Spanish interpreting and I certainly would not trust anything which is interpreted as being anywhere near to the meaning to that originally stated. Many English words have no equivalent in Portuguese and Spanish which means that interpreters have to compensate by introducing words which are alien to the original comment.

Kate probably said that if she is dead she could be in a drain or something to that effect, the possibilities are boundless.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 05:56:PM
Maddie is dead, even Kate believed she was dead, hence why she told the interpreter that her body was being hidden and concealed in the drain down by the viewpoint...

If Kate is aware that Maddy is dead why prolong the issue as they have done.  Best thing would be to go away quietly since they would have nothing to gain.

The McCann's obviously don't believe this for a minute contrary to what you state Mike on the basis of what some Portuguese interpreter was supposed to have heard.  I am well versed in relation to Portuguese and Spanish interpreting and I certainly would not trust anything which is interpreted as being anywhere near to the meaning to that originally stated. Many English words have no equivalent in Portuguese and Spanish which means that interpreters have to compensate by introducing words which are alien to the original comment.

Kate probably said that if she is dead she could be in a drain or something to that effect, the possibilities are boundless.
-------------------

Kate did say that Maddie was dead, and she told the police interpreter that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint - see Amarrals book for confirmation...

The Portuguese police searched the very drain that Kate told the interpreter about soon after she disclosed this information...

The interpreter spoke very good English and would have had no problem interpreting what Kate said to him - as far as I know, when Kate spoke to the interpreter, she did not speak in Portuguese tongue, but plain English...

I can't see how the interpreter misunderstood anything that Kate told him, if she spoke the words in simple and straight forward English, and the interpreter could speak English fluently...

"Maddie is dead, and her body is in the drain down near the viewpoint" - what more could Kate have said that could have been so misleading to the interpreter?

The interpreter said that Kate was very distressed when she called him on the telephone and started to speak to him about these matters...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:09:PM
Kate did say that Maddie was dead, and she told the police interpreter that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint - see Amarrals book for confirmation...

The Portuguese police searched the very drain that Kate told the interpreter about soon after she disclosed this information...

The interpreter spoke very good English and would have had no problem interpreting what Kate said to him - as far as I know, when Kate spoke to the interpreter, she did not speak in Portuguese tongue, but plain English...

I can't see how the interpreter misunderstood anything that Kate told him, if she spoke the words in simple and straight forward English, and the interpreter could speak English fluently...

"Maddie is dead, and her body is in the drain down near the viewpoint" - what more could Kate have said that could have been so misleading to the interpreter?

I don't think we can what Amarrals says with much confidence since all he is interested in is the money.  He is entitled to his version just as the McCann's are entitled to theirs. I know which one I would believe.

In relation to interpreting you obviously haven't experienced how words and phrases can be misinterpreted in the real world.

Eg. The addition of the little word 'if' makes the meaning of the whole sentence completely different.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 06:22:PM
Kate did say that Maddie was dead, and she told the police interpreter that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint - see Amarrals book for confirmation...

The Portuguese police searched the very drain that Kate told the interpreter about soon after she disclosed this information...

The interpreter spoke very good English and would have had no problem interpreting what Kate said to him - as far as I know, when Kate spoke to the interpreter, she did not speak in Portuguese tongue, but plain English...

I can't see how the interpreter misunderstood anything that Kate told him, if she spoke the words in simple and straight forward English, and the interpreter could speak English fluently...

"Maddie is dead, and her body is in the drain down near the viewpoint" - what more could Kate have said that could have been so misleading to the interpreter?

I don't think we can what Amarrals says with much confidence since all he is interested in is the money.  He is entitled to his version just as the McCann's are entitled to theirs. I know which one I would believe.

In relation to interpreting you obviously haven't experienced how words and phrases can be misinterpreted in the real world.

Eg. The addition of the little word 'if' makes the meaning of the whole sentence completely different.
------------------

If Kate was not speaking Portuguese when she telephoned the interpreter up, and said that Maddie was dead, and that the police would find her body in the drain, I do not think there can be much doubt about what Kate said, or what she meant...

As far as I know, Kate has never denied that she did not say these things to the police interpreter - Kate refused to answer any questions when taken in for interviewing...

So, because she has not officially denied saying those things, I choose to believe that she did say them, and that this gives something of an insight into her mind, and that she must have had possession of some information about whether or not, Maddie was dead or alive by that stage...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:30:PM
What she said or didn't say is pure speculation and nothing can be taken from it either way. I have found from experience with dealing with foreigners in legal issues that the spoken word is never interpreted properly.  As I have already said, there are some words which do not translate from english to Spanish or Portuguese.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 06:39:PM
What she said or didn't say is pure speculation and nothing can be taken from it either way. I have found from experience with dealing with foreigners in legal issues that the spoken word is never interpreted properly.  As I have already said, there are some words which do not translate from english to Spanish or Portuguese.
----------------

I think when Kate said, that Maddie was dead, and her body was in the drain near the viewpoint, that there would n't have been much wrong with the spoken English used by Kate, and spoken to the interpreter, it was so clear cut, that the police went to the drain in question, and checked out what Kate had told the interpreter...

So, what could Kate have actually said to make the interpreter think she had said that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in that drain ( I speak English, so please give me your explanation in English)...?


Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:48:PM
Kate could have said the moon is made of cheese and they would have believed her.

It isn't ....is it ??   ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 06:49:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:50:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?

Why would Kate tell a complete stranger such a thing?   It just doesn't add up.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 06:52:PM
Kate could have said the moon is made of cheese and they would have believed her.

It isn't ....is it ??   ;D
-----------------------

I know that, but why did Kate phone the police interpretor up in the middle of the night, and tell him that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint?

Lets also look at this from  a different point of view, or perspective, that area where that horizontal drain is situated and located, became a Favorite haunt of both McCann parents, as well as St Vincents Church - across the road from the grounds of the derelict building where the remains of Maddie were / are disposed of...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 06:55:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?

Why would Kate tell a complete stranger such a thing?   It just doesn't add up.
--------------------------

The police interpreter was not a stranger to Kate, he was well known to her, and she had his telephone number, so that she could contact him at a moments notice, and on that occasion whilst Jerry was away on business, Kate called the interpreter and said what she said...

It left the Portuguese police in no doubt at all from that point onwards, that Kate knew that Maddie was dead...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:56:PM
Kate could have said the moon is made of cheese and they would have believed her.

It isn't ....is it ??   ;D
-----------------------

I know that, but why did Kate phone the police interpretor up in the middle of the night, and tell him that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint?

Lets also look at this from  a different point of view, or perspective, that area where that horizontal drain is situated and located, became a Favorite haunt of both McCann parents, as well as St Vincents Church - across the road from the grounds of the derelict building where the remains of Maddie were / are disposed of...

There are no remains and if there were, they certainly were not disposed of where you indicate.

I assume you have no children of your own Mike since you don't seem to understand what is involved here.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 06:58:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?

Why would Kate tell a complete stranger such a thing?   It just doesn't add up.
--------------------------

The police interpreter was not a stranger to Kate, he was well known to her, and she had his telephone number, so that she could contact him at a moments notice, and on that occasion whilst Jerry was away on business, Kate called the interpreter and said what she said...

It left the Portuguese police in no doubt at all from that point onwards, that Kate knew that Maddie was dead...

So why phone him in any event if Jerry was away on business?

If Kate was hell bent on confessing as you are trying to imply, why do it to a Portuguese cop anyway?  Doesn't add up at all!

She probably dreamt that Maddy may have slipped down a drain and that is why she was asking them to search the outfall.  The daft cop probably thought she was saying she was dead and in the drain....happens all the time.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:01:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?

Why would Kate tell a complete stranger such a thing?   It just doesn't add up.
--------------------------

The police interpreter was not a stranger to Kate, he was well known to her, and she had his telephone number, so that she could contact him at a moments notice, and on that occasion whilst Jerry was away on business, Kate called the interpreter and said what she said...

It left the Portuguese police in no doubt at all from that point onwards, that Kate knew that Maddie was dead...

So why phone him in any event if Jerry was away on business?
-------------------------

She phoned him because she could not live with the truth about what they had done, and she was a breaking point - the only reason she pulled herself together afterwards was because they didn't find Maddie's body there, it had been moved to its present location without the others telling her about it...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:02:PM
Kate contacted the interpreter during the early hours of the morning, by telephone, and admitted to him that Maddie was dead, and her body would be found in the drain - I choose to believe that until Kate gives her own account and explanation...

I would like to hear from Kate's own mouth, in her own words, what she says she said to the interpreter, on that occasion?

Why would Kate tell a complete stranger such a thing?   It just doesn't add up.
--------------------------

The police interpreter was not a stranger to Kate, he was well known to her, and she had his telephone number, so that she could contact him at a moments notice, and on that occasion whilst Jerry was away on business, Kate called the interpreter and said what she said...

It left the Portuguese police in no doubt at all from that point onwards, that Kate knew that Maddie was dead...

So why phone him in any event if Jerry was away on business?

If Kate was hell bent on confessing as you are trying to imply, why do it to a Portuguese cop anyway?  Doesn't add up at all!
-----------------------

You should direct your question at Kate, and I would be very interested in her answer...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:04:PM
Here are some more photographs that I took in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL - to this day it still has not been properly searched and excavated:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:05:PM
Here are some more photographs that I took in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL - to this day it still has not been properly searched and excavated:-

How would you possibly know that?

According to your logic, the McCanns set about excavating ground in the middle of the night in order to bury their dead child.  Ever tried to excavate concrete with a spade?

I must say, they must be magic!!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:11:PM


She phoned him because she could not live with the truth about what they had done, and she was a breaking point - the only reason she pulled herself together afterwards was because they didn't find Maddie's body there, it had been moved to its present location without the others telling her about it...

Ever hear of a sniffer doggy?   They find human remains.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:12:PM
Here are some more photographs that I took in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL - to this day it still has not been properly searched and excavated:-

How would you possibly know that?

According to your logic, the McCanns set about excavating ground in the middle of the night in order to bury their dead child.  Ever tried to excavate concrete with a spade?

I must say, they must be magic!!
----------------------------------

I never said they started to excavate the ground on the night of Maddies so called disappearance, you said that not me...

The truth of the matter is that Jerry carried off Maddie and concealed her body in another horizontal drain located further along the coastline near to where small fishing boats are  moored up each evening, and later moved to the derelict building...

Later still, with use of the hire car that was hired from the premises just up the road from the church / derelict building, they disposed of evidence by taking it away in the boot of the hire car...

The hire car was often parked up across the road from the church, and adjacent to the derelict building - providing an ideal opportunity to carry away evidence from the scene in the boot...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:14:PM


She phoned him because she could not live with the truth about what they had done, and she was a breaking point - the only reason she pulled herself together afterwards was because they didn't find Maddie's body there, it had been moved to its present location without the others telling her about it...

Ever hear of a sniffer doggy?   They find human remains.
-------------------------

Police dogs did not search the drain where Jerry took and concealed Maddie's body on the night of her disappearance, nor did those dogs search the derelict building opposite the church at PDL - they only searched waste land along that part of the coast...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:16:PM
Kate could have said the moon is made of cheese and they would have believed her.

It isn't ....is it ??   ;D
-----------------------

I know that, but why did Kate phone the police interpretor up in the middle of the night, and tell him that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in the drain near the viewpoint?

Lets also look at this from  a different point of view, or perspective, that area where that horizontal drain is situated and located, became a Favorite haunt of both McCann parents, as well as St Vincents Church - across the road from the grounds of the derelict building where the remains of Maddie were / are disposed of...

There are no remains and if there were, they certainly were not disposed of where you indicate.

I assume you have no children of your own Mike since you don't seem to understand what is involved here.
-----------------------

You wait until the police find those remains in the grounds of that derelict building, we'll see what you have to say about it then...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:18:PM
Does anybody recognize any of the clothing found at the scene?

To whom did these articles of clothing belong to and why did someone discard them in a plastic bag inside the building?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 07:19:PM
Mike I respect your opinion, but I think you are a mile away.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:21:PM
Some more images taken from inside the grounds of the derelict building:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:22:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.

A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:27:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.
---------------------

The truth about what really happened to Maddie McCann is coming out very soon, you wait and see, and when  it does, remember these words that you keep speaking...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:28:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.

A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.
---------------------

No sniffer dogs searched this derelict building or its grounds...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:30:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.

A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.
---------------------

No sniffer dogs searched this derelict building or its grounds...


Of course they did, that would be one of the first places they searched.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:32:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.
---------------------

The truth about what really happened to Maddie McCann is coming out very soon, you wait and see, and when  it does, remember these words that you keep speaking...

I don't think so unless she is found safe and well which I hope she is. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 07:43:PM
Mike you are a diamond, full of c. How do you spell carbon, Oh I know
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:44:PM
On another point, I assume you have never excavated ground in Portugal. If you had you would know that you can barely get down a few inches without meeting solid resistance. Why do you think the Portuguese and Spanish inter their dead in specially constructed vaults in cemeteries.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:46:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.

A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.
---------------------

No sniffer dogs searched this derelict building or its grounds...
---------------------------

They did not search that building or its grounds, and there were many other derelict buildings which were not searched, and still have not been searched - so I don't know where you are getting your facts from - please direct me to any evidence that shows or proves that sniffer dogs searched these premises and when?

The dates and times these premises were supposedly searched and checked may be important, so please try and get your facts right...

Sniffer dogs only followed trail from apartment down in the general direction of th Spar supermarket...




Of course they did, that would be one of the first places they searched.

The whole town was searched as a matter of procedure. I am surprised that you didn't know this?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:47:PM
On another point, I assume you have never excavated ground in Portugal. If you had you would know that you can barely get down a few inches without meeting solid resistance. Why do you think the Portuguese and Spanish inter their dead in specially constructed vaults in cemeteries.
------------------------------

If you were paying attention, you would note the presence of the metal bar that was used to dig the grave where the remains of Maddie were / are buried...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:49:PM
On another point, I assume you have never excavated ground in Portugal. If you had you would know that you can barely get down a few inches without meeting solid resistance. Why do you think the Portuguese and Spanish inter their dead in specially constructed vaults in cemeteries.
------------------------------

If you were paying attention, you would note the presence of the metal bar that was used to dig the grave where the remains of Maddie were / are buried...

And there was me thinking you knew something about the case.    ::)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:50:PM
You don't really have a clue about being a parent have you Mike?   No decent parent would do such a thing to their child in the manner you describe.

A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.
---------------------

No sniffer dogs searched this derelict building or its grounds...
---------------------------

They did not search that building or its grounds, and there were many other derelict buildings which were not searched, and still have not been searched - so I don't know where you are getting your facts from - please direct me to any evidence that shows or proves that sniffer dogs searched these premises and when?

The dates and times these premises were supposedly searched and checked may be important, so please try and get your facts right...

Sniffer dogs only followed trail from apartment down in the general direction of th Spar supermarket...




Of course they did, that would be one of the first places they searched.

The whole town was searched as a matter of procedure. I am surprised that you didn't know this?
......

The grounds of the derelict building were not searched after they moved Maddie's body there, from the horizontal drain along the coastline...

You need to tell me when they searched the derelict building, give me the date and time...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:52:PM
It was searched shortly after the abduction and again later when specialised dogs were brought in.  Could have been searched again by many others just like you did!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 02, 2011, 07:54:PM
Mike, B o double l o c ks
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:55:PM
Lovely snaps Mike but that's where the reality ends in what you posted.  I wonder does the fact that yesterday was 1st April have anything to do with such nonsense??   ;) ;)

(http://www.artie.com/april_fools/arg-april-fool-207x165-url.gif)

Fact:  There is no evidence of any sort that Maddy is dead.  On the other hand there is every possibility that she is alive and well and was indeed abducted from her parents apartment.

Kate never confessed to anyone about Maddy's death, any mention of a drain (if such ever took place in the first place) is pure speculation and being used out of all context.

Nice try though !!  :)  :)
------------------------

The only April fool is you, because Kate did tell an interpreter that Maddie was dead, and that her body would be found in a drain near to the viewpoint...

A witness statement exists from the interpreter, explaining that once |Kate confided in him, that he reported the matter to the police in Portugal...

Get your facts right...

Hearsay old boy!     ...merely hearsay and in a foreign language to-boot!!    ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:55:PM
Mike, B o double l o c ks

Aprils fools day was yesterday.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:57:PM
It was searched shortly after the abduction and again later when specialised dogs were brought in.  Could have been searched again by many others just like you did!
-----------------------

No it wasn't...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 07:58:PM
It was searched shortly after the abduction and again later when specialised dogs were brought in.  Could have been searched again by many others just like you did!
-----------------------

No it wasn't...


Prove it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 07:58:PM
They dug the hole in the grounds of the derelict building and they put Maddie's remains in there...

It was easy sneaking across the road from the church in the middle of the night...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 08:00:PM
It was searched shortly after the abduction and again later when specialised dogs were brought in.  Could have been searched again by many others just like you did!
-----------------------

No it wasn't...


Prove it?
------------------

It can be proven, by reference to the search records, on the Portuguese files...

The police and their dogs did not search the derelict building across the road from St Vincents church at all...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 08:03:PM
It was searched shortly after the abduction and again later when specialised dogs were brought in.  Could have been searched again by many others just like you did!
-----------------------

No it wasn't...


Prove it?
------------------

It can be proven, by reference to the search records, on the Portuguese files...

The police and their dogs did not search the derelict building across the road from St Vincents church at all...

Nice try but as I said before, not likely that they missed an area.

The cops are not in the habit of keeping records of every pothole and cranny that they search so proving this one way or another is a non starter.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 08:24:PM
Maddie's remains will be found in this building and its grounds...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 08:33:PM
What both?   has it been dismembered then too ?

Maddie is alive and well and nothing you can say will ever change that.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 08:36:PM
What both?   has it been dismembered then too ?

Maddie is alive and well and nothing you can say will ever change that.
-----------------------------

She is not alive, they killed her...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 08:58:PM
So now they killed her and it wasn't an accident?

I thought you knew what you were talking about Mike but now I am having serious reservations.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 09:01:PM
So now they killed her and it wasn't an accident?

I thought you knew what you were talking about Mike but now I am having serious reservations.
------------------------

I do know what I am talking about...

She is dead, and they got rid of the body - if it was an accident then why did they get rid of the body and introduce a false story about Maddie being abducted from the apartment, whilst they were out dining with their friends?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 09:07:PM
So now they killed her and it wasn't an accident?

I thought you knew what you were talking about Mike but now I am having serious reservations.
------------------------

I do know what I am talking about...

She is dead, and they got rid of the body - if it was an accident then why did they get rid of the body and introduce a false story about Maddie being abducted from the apartment, whilst they were out dining with their friends?

Why on earth would a decent couple like the McCann's want to go on holiday with friends and then kill their eldest child.  Fantasy is what that is Mike!

What possible motive could they have?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 02, 2011, 09:10:PM
So now they killed her and it wasn't an accident?

I thought you knew what you were talking about Mike but now I am having serious reservations.
------------------------

I do know what I am talking about...

She is dead, and they got rid of the body - if it was an accident then why did they get rid of the body and introduce a false story about Maddie being abducted from the apartment, whilst they were out dining with their friends?

Why on earth would a decent couple like the McCann's want to go on holiday with friends and then kill their eldest child.  Fantasy is what that is Mike!

What possible motive could they have?
------

They helped get rid of the body after Maddie died, suggesting that they played some role in her death...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 02, 2011, 09:27:PM
In answer to the poll - no, Madeleine is not alive. In my opinion she died either from two reasons - sedation gone wrong (the most likely) or that she was hit/pushed/shoved too hard probably by Kate through stress/exasperation/exhaustion.

I believe the abduction was simulated and Madeleine's poor body was hidden because the Post Mortem would have shown up the sedation drugs or evidence of abuse, or both.

I think the Tapas group all know what happened, with the exception of Diane Webster. They are in on it because they were also sedating their kids, if found out, they would lose their medical careers and have their children taken into care.

As for where Madeleine is, I believe they put her out to sea and her body will never be found.

To be frank, I can't bear the sight of Kate or Gerry, I find them despicable. I hold much hope that they'll be bought to justice one day, and I believe this will happen eventually.




 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 02, 2011, 10:23:PM
In answer to the poll - no, Madeleine is not alive. In my opinion she died either from two reasons - sedation gone wrong (the most likely) or that she was hit/pushed/shoved too hard probably by Kate through stress/exasperation/exhaustion.

I believe the abduction was simulated and Madeleine's poor body was hidden because the Post Mortem would have shown up the sedation drugs or evidence or abuse, or both.

I think the Tapas group all know what happened, with the exception of Diane Webster. They are in on it because they were also sedating their kids, if found out, they would lose their medical careers and have their children taken into care.

As for where Madeleine is, I believe they put her out to sea and her body will never be found.

To be frank, I can't bear the sight of Kate or Gerry, I find them despicable. I hold much hope that they'll be bought to justice one day, and I believe this will happen eventually.

Well at least that dispels Mike's theory that she is buried in a corner of a disused garden.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: arlosmum on April 03, 2011, 09:46:AM
Have a read of the McCann files.com. (sorry, can't do the link thingy)
The Forbidden Investigation gives a really good account of what happened, according to the Portugese police officer in charge, at the time.
It's quite harrowing, in places, but well worth looking at.
He retired early after he was removed from the case. Probably due to Diplomatic pressure from England.
I have to say, he has convinced me, particularly with regard to the Smith family, and what they saw.......
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:48:AM
In answer to the poll - no, Madeleine is not alive. In my opinion she died either from two reasons - sedation gone wrong (the most likely) or that she was hit/pushed/shoved too hard probably by Kate through stress/exasperation/exhaustion.

I believe the abduction was simulated and Madeleine's poor body was hidden because the Post Mortem would have shown up the sedation drugs or evidence or abuse, or both.

I think the Tapas group all know what happened, with the exception of Diane Webster. They are in on it because they were also sedating their kids, if found out, they would lose their medical careers and have their children taken into care.

As for where Madeleine is, I believe they put her out to sea and her body will never be found.

To be frank, I can't bear the sight of Kate or Gerry, I find them despicable. I hold much hope that they'll be bought to justice one day, and I believe this will happen eventually.

Well at least that dispels Mike's theory that she is buried in a corner of a disused garden.
--------------------

You mark my words, they concealed the body of Maddie in one of the two horizontal drains along that part of the coast, and then moved her remains into the grounds of the derelict building, and from there evidence was carried off in the boot of the hire car, from that location...

Scoff all you like - the McCanns know what they did, and they know Maddie is dead..
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 12:53:PM
Not only have I studied this case in depth, but I have visited the scene and carried out an intense investigation of my own, which has led me to conclude that the parents and others knew and know what actually happened to Poor little Maddie McCann...

She is dead...

She ain't ever going to be found alive...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 02:27:PM
<snip> the parents and others knew and know what actually happened to Poor little Maddie McCann...

She is dead...

She ain't ever going to be found alive...

Yes, I'm certain of it too :(.

One of the biggest giveaways for me was Kate and Gerry's immediate anger and discrediting of the EVRD dogs. Just imagine your own child had disappeared, if you know they couldn't have wondered off  - and Kate and Gerry did say that about Madeleine in the immediate aftermath - (and around 12-24 hours later Kate also said "a paedophile has got her"), then upon hearing that the EVRD dogs found blood and cadaver odour in the apartment (and these dogs are AMAZINGLY clever, and animals don't lie), wouldn't you be terribly upset and break down at this because there's now something tangible painting a picture of what happened to your child? The McCann's didn't, all they did was scoff and sneer, and say the dogs are rubbish. This has always been the McCann's weakness you see - they don't know how to do real emotions - and this is why so many people look at this story and think there's something just not right about the whole thing. Here's an example:

This picture was taken shortly after Kate and Gerry said they believed Madeliene had been taken by a paedophile/s. It was also on the day of what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://mccannexposure.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/4648211.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/exclusive-brian-kennedy-mccanns-multi-millionaire-benefactor/&usg=__dgvni5Mb4wwHA-uFirHAZwVyZOg=&h=340&w=512&sz=27&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=G9c1ztU5PdbH9M:&tbnh=139&tbnw=163&ei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkate%2Band%2Bgerry%2Bmccann%2Bchurch%2Bmadeline%2527s%2Bbirthday%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Ds%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D621%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=108&vpy=137&dur=1190&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=203&ty=75&oei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0


I don't know about the derelict building aspect Mike, can you explain it a bit further please?





Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 04:29:PM
<snip> the parents and others knew and know what actually happened to Poor little Maddie McCann...

She is dead...

She ain't ever going to be found alive...

Yes, I'm certain of it too :(.

One of the biggest giveaways for me was Kate and Gerry's immediate anger and discrediting of the EVRD dogs. Just imagine your own child had disappeared, if you know they couldn't have wondered off  - and Kate and Gerry did say that about Madeleine in the immediate aftermath - (and around 12-24 hours later Kate also said "a paedophile has got her"), then upon hearing that the EVRD dogs found blood and cadaver odour in the apartment (and these dogs are AMAZINGLY clever, and animals don't lie), wouldn't you be terribly upset and break down at this because there's now something tangible painting a picture of what happened to your child? The McCann's didn't, all they did was scoff and sneer, and say the dogs are rubbish. This has always been the McCann's weakness you see - they don't know how to do real emotions - and this is why so many people look at this story and think there's something just not right about the whole thing. Here's an example:

This picture was taken shortly after Kate and Gerry said they believed Madeliene had been taken by a paedophile/s. It was also on the day of what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://mccannexposure.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/4648211.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/exclusive-brian-kennedy-mccanns-multi-millionaire-benefactor/&usg=__dgvni5Mb4wwHA-uFirHAZwVyZOg=&h=340&w=512&sz=27&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=G9c1ztU5PdbH9M:&tbnh=139&tbnw=163&ei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkate%2Band%2Bgerry%2Bmccann%2Bchurch%2Bmadeline%2527s%2Bbirthday%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Ds%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D621%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=108&vpy=137&dur=1190&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=203&ty=75&oei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0


I don't know about the derelict building aspect Mike, can you explain it a bit further please?
--------------------------

Thanks for joyous picture of the McCann parents - Jerry was also seen to be laughing on the balcony of their apartment on the morning after Maddie supposedly went missing...

I will be giving a more in-depth account of why I think the remains of Maddie were disposed of in the grounds of the derelict building in due course. But first I was intending to give everyone a clear picture of the surrounding area, where the church, the horizontal drain and the derelict building is located / situated, as well as views of the coastline which also includes the site for the other horizontal drain...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 04:52:PM
<snip> the parents and others knew and know what actually happened to Poor little Maddie McCann...

She is dead...

She ain't ever going to be found alive...

Yes, I'm certain of it too :(.

One of the biggest giveaways for me was Kate and Gerry's immediate anger and discrediting of the EVRD dogs. Just imagine your own child had disappeared, if you know they couldn't have wondered off  - and Kate and Gerry did say that about Madeleine in the immediate aftermath - (and around 12-24 hours later Kate also said "a paedophile has got her"), then upon hearing that the EVRD dogs found blood and cadaver odour in the apartment (and these dogs are AMAZINGLY clever, and animals don't lie), wouldn't you be terribly upset and break down at this because there's now something tangible painting a picture of what happened to your child? The McCann's didn't, all they did was scoff and sneer, and say the dogs are rubbish. This has always been the McCann's weakness you see - they don't know how to do real emotions - and this is why so many people look at this story and think there's something just not right about the whole thing. Here's an example:

This picture was taken shortly after Kate and Gerry said they believed Madeliene had been taken by a paedophile/s. It was also on the day of what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://mccannexposure.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/4648211.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/exclusive-brian-kennedy-mccanns-multi-millionaire-benefactor/&usg=__dgvni5Mb4wwHA-uFirHAZwVyZOg=&h=340&w=512&sz=27&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=G9c1ztU5PdbH9M:&tbnh=139&tbnw=163&ei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkate%2Band%2Bgerry%2Bmccann%2Bchurch%2Bmadeline%2527s%2Bbirthday%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Ds%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D621%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=108&vpy=137&dur=1190&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=203&ty=75&oei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0


I don't know about the derelict building aspect Mike, can you explain it a bit further please?
--------------------------

Thanks for joyous picture of the McCann parents - Jerry was also seen to be laughing on the balcony of their apartment on the morning after Maddie supposedly went missing...

I will be giving a more in-depth account of why I think the remains of Maddie were disposed of in the grounds of the derelict building in due course. But first I was intending to give everyone a clear picture of the surrounding area, where the church, the horizontal drain and the derelict building is located / situated, as well as views of the coastline which also includes the site for the other horizontal drain...

Oh I could write reams about the inappropriate behavior of Kate and Jerry, their downright bizarre comments, the inconsistancies of the Tapas group, the outrageousness of the fund (which is of course a fighting fund, it was even admitted early on by someone in their team, that the money was going to be mostly used to pay legal costs, rather than actual searching!).

Thanks for the pictures Mike, looking forward to your next postings on this.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 04:57:PM
<snip> the parents and others knew and know what actually happened to Poor little Maddie McCann...

She is dead...

She ain't ever going to be found alive...

Yes, I'm certain of it too :(.

One of the biggest giveaways for me was Kate and Gerry's immediate anger and discrediting of the EVRD dogs. Just imagine your own child had disappeared, if you know they couldn't have wondered off  - and Kate and Gerry did say that about Madeleine in the immediate aftermath - (and around 12-24 hours later Kate also said "a paedophile has got her"), then upon hearing that the EVRD dogs found blood and cadaver odour in the apartment (and these dogs are AMAZINGLY clever, and animals don't lie), wouldn't you be terribly upset and break down at this because there's now something tangible painting a picture of what happened to your child? The McCann's didn't, all they did was scoff and sneer, and say the dogs are rubbish. This has always been the McCann's weakness you see - they don't know how to do real emotions - and this is why so many people look at this story and think there's something just not right about the whole thing. Here's an example:

This picture was taken shortly after Kate and Gerry said they believed Madeliene had been taken by a paedophile/s. It was also on the day of what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://mccannexposure.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/4648211.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/exclusive-brian-kennedy-mccanns-multi-millionaire-benefactor/&usg=__dgvni5Mb4wwHA-uFirHAZwVyZOg=&h=340&w=512&sz=27&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=G9c1ztU5PdbH9M:&tbnh=139&tbnw=163&ei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkate%2Band%2Bgerry%2Bmccann%2Bchurch%2Bmadeline%2527s%2Bbirthday%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Ds%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D621%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=108&vpy=137&dur=1190&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=203&ty=75&oei=4HeYTaXUKs-Dswb_nuHLCA&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0


I don't know about the derelict building aspect Mike, can you explain it a bit further please?
--------------------------

Thanks for joyous picture of the McCann parents - Jerry was also seen to be laughing on the balcony of their apartment on the morning after Maddie supposedly went missing...

I will be giving a more in-depth account of why I think the remains of Maddie were disposed of in the grounds of the derelict building in due course. But first I was intending to give everyone a clear picture of the surrounding area, where the church, the horizontal drain and the derelict building is located / situated, as well as views of the coastline which also includes the site for the other horizontal drain...

Oh I could write reams about the inappropriate behavior of Kate and Jerry, their downright bizarre comments, the inconsistancies of the Tapas group, the outrageousness of the fund (which is of course a fighting fund (it was even admitted early on by someone in their team, that the money was going to be mostly used to pay legal costs, rather than the "search"!).

Thanks for the pictures Mike, look forward to your next postings on this.
---------------------

I was intending to show the area in the immediate locality of the church / drain / and derelict building, and access to it, from the coastline where the second horizontal drain is situated, and from the apartment where Maddie supposedly vanished from? Its not something which I can do quickly, it might take me some time to build that picture up, so that everyone is aware of what I am talking about, especially when it comes to my reasons for believing that the remains of Maddie are / were buried in the grounds of that derelict building, and how the hire car was used to carry off vital clues for disposal elsewhere...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 05:13:PM
Mike........Do you believe that Madeleine is still buried in the garden of the derelict house?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 05:15:PM
Mike........Do you believe that Madeleine is still buried in the garden of the derelict house?
------------------

I believe that her remains are there, yes - but maybe not her clothing, which I believe was taken away in the boot of the hire car...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 05:31:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 05:35:PM
There isn't the slightest evidence of any sort that Maddie is dead, not a single piece of anything tangible.  Hearsay and rumour on one hand and silly theories count for nothing.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 05:57:PM
A properly trained sniffer dog can find human remains very easily.

There isn't the slightest evidence of any sort that Maddie is dead, not a single piece of anything tangible.  <snip>

From the case files:

OPERATION TASK CANINE DEPLOYMENTS 1-8 AUGUST 2007

On the instruction of The PJ Director, The Portuguese police kept all search
records concerning the deployment of the search dogs. All dog searches were
recorded by video.

The following searches were conducted:

Five apartments at a complex in Praia Da Luz.
Mr. Murat's property at Pria Da Luz.
Mr. McCann's Villa at Pria Da Luz ( Present occupancy).
Articles of clothing from Mr. McCann's residence.
Western beach Pria da Luz.
Eastern Beach Pria Da Luz.
10 Vehicles screened at Portimao.
CANINE SEARCHES AT FIVE APARTMENTS AT PRIA DA LUZ.

All five apartments were searched using the EVRD. The only alert indications
were at apartment 5a, the reported scene.

The EVRD alerted in the:

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

My observation of the dog's behaviour in this instance was that the dog's
behaviour changed immediately upon opening the front door to the apartment.
He will normally remain in the sit position until released and tasked to search.
On this occasion he broke the stay and entered the apartment with an above
average interest. His behaviour was such that I believed him to be 'in scent'
and I therefore allowed him to free search without direction to allow him to
identify the source of his interest. He did so alerting in the rear bedroom.

I released him from this and tasked him to continue to search. He did so
alerting in an area to the rear of the sofa in the lounge.

The dog's behaviour for these alerts led me to the following opinions:

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area
being identified. This is the alert given by him when there is no tangible
evidence to be located only the remaining scent.

The second alert was one where a definitive area was evident. The CSI dog
was therefore deployed who gave specific alert indications to specific areas
on the tiled floor area behind the sofa and on the curtain in the area that was
in contact with the floor behind the sofa. This would indicate to the likely
presence of human blood.

The forensic science support oficers were then deployed to recover items for
laboratory analysis.

There were no alert indications from the remaining properties. I did however
see the dog search in the kitchen waste bins. These contained meat
foodstuffs including pork and did not result in any false alert response.

CANINE SEARCH OF MR MURAT'S PROPERTY.

The property was subjected to a search for human remains or blood stained
articles. The outside of property was stripped of vegetation and after the
ground being probed was searched by the EVRD dog. The inside of the
property was then searched by the dog. There were no alert indications and
no human remains were located.

CANINE SEARCH OF MR McCANN'S VILLA, PRESENT OCCUPANCY.

The villa interior, garden, and all property within were searched by the EVRD.
The only alert indication given was when the dog located a pink cuddly toy in
the villas lounge. The CSI dog did not alert to the toy when screened
separately.

BOXES OF CLOTHING 1 PROPERTY FORM MR McCANN'S RESIDENCE.

At a suitable venue numerous boxes of clothing 1 property taken from the
McCann present residence were screened using both the EVRD and the CSI
dog. The venue was screened by both dogs prior to introducing clothing /
property. Neither gave an alert indication. The screening then took place with
the contents of each box being placed around the room in turn. The process
was recorded by video and written records were taken by PJ officers.

The only alert indication was by the EVRD on clothing from one of the boxes. I
am not in possession of the details as these were recorded by the PJ ofíicers
present.

CANINE VEHICLE SEARCHES.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao. The vehicles, of which I did not know the owner details, were
parked on an empty floor with 20-30 feet between each. The vehicle
placement video recording and management of the process was conducted
by the PJ. The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

Statement of Martin Grime, the dog handler in the case:

I have 35 years experience in the training of dogs both within the police
service and in the public sector.

I specialise in the development and training of specialist search dogs to
include narcotics, explosives, currency, human remains, blood and semen.

I am the Special Advisor to The U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau
of Investigation, in relation to their Canine Forensic Program.

I am a U.K.A.C.P.O. (Association of Chief Police Officers, England and wales)
accredited police dog training instructor. Iam a Subject Matter Expert in
forensic canine search and on the N.P.I.A. (National Policing Improvement
Agency) Expert Advisers database.

I advise Domestic and International Law enforcement agencies on the
operational deployment of Police Dogs in the role of Homicide investigation.

I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable evidence by the use
of dogs and facilitate training.

I am regularly deployed to homicide cases within my portfolio and form a
'Specialist Canine Homicide Search Team' including the S.A.M dog teams
from Dyfed Powys and USA.

I have trained and handle two operational specialist search dogs:
'Eddie' is a 7-year-old English Springer spaniel dog who is trained as an
Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (EVRD).

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:08:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 06:11:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your arguments are weak but there is no need for name calling just because someone doesn't agree with you and your hair-brained theory.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:11:PM
There isn't the slightest evidence of any sort that Maddie is dead, not a single piece of anything tangible.  Hearsay and rumour on one hand and silly theories count for nothing.
-----------------

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Maddie is still alive - not a single piece of anything tangible.

Any parent who lost a child in circumstances as alleged by the McCanns and their friends would bend over backwards to co-operate with the police, but not the McCanns, oh no, they chose to say noting... 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:13:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.
-----------------------

As far as I know the dogs did not enter the derelict building or its grounds, and so your point is defunct...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:14:PM
You wait until they find Maddie's remains there...

We'll see what you have got to say at that point...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 06:16:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's not how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 06:18:PM
The McCann's were quite right to say nothing after the police made the fatal mistake of accusing them.  After all, Mr Portuguese policeman was removed from the case for incompetence. What more can I say.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 06:19:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's now how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.

So they aren't infallible then?  Apparently the handler doesn't think so thus his comments.

I am afraid that in the absence of any tangible evidence to the contrary it can only be assumed that Maddie was indeed abducted and hopefully is alive and well.  This nonsense about moving the body and burying it again is pure fantasy.

On another point raised by Mike, there would have been no blood in any event if all that had happened to Maddie was that she had been overdosed. Another false trail foo pah!! 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 06:29:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's now how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.

So they aren't infallible then?  Apparently the handler doesn't think so thus his comments.

I am afraid that in the absence of any tangible evidence to the contrary it can only be assumed that Maddie was indeed abducted and hopefully is alive and well.  This nonsense about moving the body and burying it again is pure fantasy.

No, the dogs alerts can't be used alone, but with other evidence they can are used to secure convictions.

I don't understand how you can seem to be so sure that Madeleine is alive and well, the overwhelming statistics tell us that an abducted child will be dead within hours of going missing, or held and subjected to unthinkable horrors as we've seen in recently reported cases. The idea that Madeleine is living a lovely happy life with wonderful parents is so unlikely it's pretty much ridiculous.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:30:PM
The McCann's were quite right to say nothing after the police made the fatal mistake of accusing them.  After all, Mr Portuguese policeman was removed from the case for incompetence. What more can I say.
------------------

He wasn't incompetent...

And in any event, if he was removed as you put it, then why didn't the parents speak to another Portuguese police officer and co-operate with them? Your just making things up, because the truth about what really dud happen to poor little Maddie will soon be out in the open...

The parents lied about so many things...

I mean, fancy suggesting that the steel shutter to the bedroom window had been forced up and open from the outside, leaving no tool marks there?

How was that done then?

Please enlighten me...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:32:PM
It would have been impossible for anyone to open those steel shutters from the outside, even if the window behind th shutter was open - it can't be done, it would be physically impossible for anyone to do that from outside the window without damaging the shutter and lock mechanism...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 06:33:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's now how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.

So they aren't infallible then?  Apparently the handler doesn't think so thus his comments.

I am afraid that in the absence of any tangible evidence to the contrary it can only be assumed that Maddie was indeed abducted and hopefully is alive and well.  This nonsense about moving the body and burying it again is pure fantasy.

No, the dogs alerts can't be used alone, but with other evidence they can are used to secure convictions.

I don't understand how you can seem to be so sure that Madeleine is alive and well, the overwhelming statistics tell us that an abducted child will be dead within hours of going missing, or held and subjected to unthinkable horrors as we've seen in recently reported cases. The idea that Madeleine is living a lovely happy life with wonderful parents is so unlikely it's pretty much ridiculous.

Not at all Rose, there are many cases where children have been abducted and have come forward in later years.  We can only hope that Maddie is such a child and will come home some day.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 06:35:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's now how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.

So they aren't infallible then?  Apparently the handler doesn't think so thus his comments.

I am afraid that in the absence of any tangible evidence to the contrary it can only be assumed that Maddie was indeed abducted and hopefully is alive and well.  This nonsense about moving the body and burying it again is pure fantasy.

No, the dogs alerts can't be used alone, but with other evidence they can are used to secure convictions.

I don't understand how you can seem to be so sure that Madeleine is alive and well, the overwhelming statistics tell us that an abducted child will be dead within hours of going missing, or held and subjected to unthinkable horrors as we've seen in recently reported cases. The idea that Madeleine is living a lovely happy life with wonderful parents is so unlikely it's pretty much ridiculous.

Not at all Rose, there are many cases where children have been abducted and have come forward in later years.  We can only hope that Maddie is such a child and will come home some day.
-----------------

Yes, I too would like to think that poor little Maddie is going to be found alive and well, but it is not going to happen...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 06:36:PM
Oh yes so plausible and so utterly impossible.

What Mike proposes is that the McCann's carried out all these activities under the noses of an entire village who were looking for an abducted child.  Not only did they hide her then collect her and bury her but they disposed of her clothing in a hire car and all this while they were under the scrutiny of the world's press and the Portuguese police. 

Really Mike is that the best you can do with this hair brained theory??   ;D
------------------

Stop being an idiot...


Why don't you admit it. Even the dog handler had to admit that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.

It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.  This in itself means absolutely nothing and certainly is not evidence that she is dead.

I know your theory is weak but there is no need for name calling.

Sandy, that's now how the EVRD dogs work, they are trained to pick up cadaver and blood, and that is what they found.

So they aren't infallible then?  Apparently the handler doesn't think so thus his comments.

I am afraid that in the absence of any tangible evidence to the contrary it can only be assumed that Maddie was indeed abducted and hopefully is alive and well.  This nonsense about moving the body and burying it again is pure fantasy.

No, the dogs alerts can't be used alone, but with other evidence they can are used to secure convictions.

I don't understand how you can seem to be so sure that Madeleine is alive and well, the overwhelming statistics tell us that an abducted child will be dead within hours of going missing, or held and subjected to unthinkable horrors as we've seen in recently reported cases. The idea that Madeleine is living a lovely happy life with wonderful parents is so unlikely it's pretty much ridiculous.

Not at all Rose, there are many cases where children have been abducted and have come forward in later years.  We can only hope that Maddie is such a child and will come home some day.

I do hope for that too Sandy, but having studied the files for two years, I just can't see it at all. :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 07:26:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 07:28:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!

Would you blame them?  ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 07:34:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!
----------------

Yes, Cadaver dog and blood hound found evidence in boot of hire car which was suggestive that Maddie's remains, or the clothing which she wore at the time of her alleged disappearance, were carried away to some other spot or location, after the Mccann s hired the hire car...

Neighbors who lived next door to the apartment where the McCanns stayed at that time, reported to the police that they could smell a foul stench coming from the boot area of the hire car when it was parked up...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 07:36:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!

Would you blame them?  ;)

Yes actually.I know that if it were me and I knew I was innocent,I would have nothing to be frightened of.I would have stayed and concentrated on finding my child.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 07:44:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!
----------------

Yes, Cadaver dog and blood hound found evidence in boot of hire car which was suggestive that Maddie's remains, or the clothing which she wore at the time of her alleged disappearance, were carried away to some other spot or location, after the Mccann s hired the hire car...

Neighbors who lived next door to the apartment where the McCanns stayed at that time, reported to the police that they could smell a foul stench coming from the boot area of the hire car when it was parked up...

The sniffer dog results were non conclusive and were supposed to have been continued in the UK. This never happened which renders the whole thing suspect.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 07:47:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!

Would you blame them?  ;)

Yes actually.I know that if it were me and I knew I was innocent,I would have nothing to be frightened of.I would have stayed and concentrated on finding my child.

She did the right thing because if she had stayed she would have been wrongly imprisoned as many are in Portugal and Spain on fabricated evidence in cases presided over by corrupt judges.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 07:51:PM
I didnt know that Maddie had been in the hire car.I thought the McCanns hired the people carrier after Maddie had gone missing.Was it not true that blood was found up the walls and the room had to be repainted? The thing I found most odd is that the McCanns stated that they were going to stay in Portugal as long as possible,but as soon as they were made suspects,they hopped on the first plane home!

Would you blame them?  ;)

Yes actually.I know that if it were me and I knew I was innocent,I would have nothing to be frightened of.I would have stayed and concentrated on finding my child.

She did the right thing because if she had stayed she would have been wrongly imprisoned as many are in Portugal and Spain on fabricated evidence in cases presided over by corrupt judges.
--------------------

Why did Kate leave the other two children in the apartment after she found Maddie was gone?

Why did she run back to the tapas bar to break the news to everybody, and leave her other two children at the mercy of any would be abductors? It don't make sense to me...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 07:56:PM
The other two kids were sleeping soundly so for all Kate knew, Maddie had wandered off somewhere nearby.  No mystery there.

I would have done the same thing which included taking the long way round on my way back to the bar checking all the time in case she was nearby.  I am quite sure that Kate didn't automatically decide Maddie had been taken but i am also quite sure that that reality sunk in pretty quick.

Anyway, we have several witnesses who saw a person carrying a child in the vicinity a short time later, this can only been deemed extremely suspicious in the circumstances.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:03:PM
The other two kids were sleeping soundly so for all Kate knew, Maddie had wandered off somewhere nearby.  No mystery there.

I would have done the same thing which included taking the long way round on my way back to the bar checking all the time in case she was nearby.  I am quite sure that Kate didn't automatically decide Maddie had been taken but i am also quite sure that that reality sunk in pretty quick.

Anyway, we have several witnesses who saw a person carrying a child in the vicinity a short time later, this can only been deemed extremely suspicious in the circumstances.
-----------------------------

Wandered off - are you kidding me?

What with the curtains blowing open and the bedroom door slamming shut and the shutter at th window raised, and you expect me to believe that Kate must have thought that Maddie had just wandered off - do me a favor...

So, Maddie opened the bedroom window and raised the steel shutter and opened the window by sliding it to one side, and she climbed out of that window and wandered off, when the patio door was open, and the other door on the roadside of the building could have easily been opened by anyone from the inside?

All she had to do was go to the patio veranda and shout and scream from the top of her voice that Maddie was gone to alert the others but what did she do, she went to the tapas bar and told them Maddie was gone and that "They had taken her"...

Who was "they", do you think?



Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:06:PM

Anyway, we have several witnesses who saw a person carrying a child in the vicinity a short time later, this can only been deemed extremely suspicious in the circumstances.
-----------------------

One of the sightings by Jane tanner was a hoax, and the other was a sighting of Jerry carrying off Maddie in the vicinity of the local medical center, by the Smith contingent, en route to the horizontal drain in the vicinity of the place where small fishing boats are moored up at night...

I will be posting pictures that I took of this area shortly...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:11:PM

Wandered off - are you kidding me?

What with the curtains blowing open and the bedroom door slamming shut and the shutter at th window raised, and you expect me to believe that Kate must have thought that Maddie had just wandered off - do me a favor...

So, Maddie opened the bedroom window and raised the steel shutter and opened the window by sliding it to one side, and she climbed out of that window and wandered off, when the patio door was open, and the other door on the roadside of the building could have easily been opened by anyone from the inside?

All she had to do was go to the patio veranda and shout and scream from the top of her voice that Maddie was gone to alert the others but what did she do, she went to the tapas bar and told them Maddie was gone and that "They had taken her"...

Who was "they", do you think?

Yes, wandered off...that's what kids do sometimes.  I can remember this happening to my own child once in Majorca.  All sorts of things go through your mind but your first instinct is to search hoping that they will be somewhere nearby and have not been abducted.

Why would she shout and scream if Maddie was nearby and end up looking like a right pillock?  You have obviously never been in that position and have not thought this scenario through very thoroughly.
Kate wasn't to know who had opened the shutter or the window. Maybe one of the others had done it to let some air into the room. Have you ever been to a hot arid country where air conditioning is a necessity?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:12:PM

Anyway, we have several witnesses who saw a person carrying a child in the vicinity a short time later, this can only been deemed extremely suspicious in the circumstances.
-----------------------

One of the sightings by Jane tanner was a hoax, and the other was a sighting of Jerry carrying off Maddie in the vicinity of the local medical center, by the Smith contingent, en route to the horizontal drain in the vicinity of the place where small fishing boats are moored up at night...

I will be posting pictures that I took of this area shortly...

So Jerry carried Maddie in his arms yet the sniffer dogs didn't find the scent on him or his clothes...your havin a laurgh!! ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 08:27:PM
Kate was adamant herself that Maddie hadnt wandered off somewhere.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:29:PM
Kate was adamant herself that Maddie hadnt wandered off somewhere.

Yes, later naturally.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:33:PM

Anyway, we have several witnesses who saw a person carrying a child in the vicinity a short time later, this can only been deemed extremely suspicious in the circumstances.
-----------------------

One of the sightings by Jane tanner was a hoax, and the other was a sighting of Jerry carrying off Maddie in the vicinity of the local medical center, by the Smith contingent, en route to the horizontal drain in the vicinity of the place where small fishing boats are moored up at night...

I will be posting pictures that I took of this area shortly...

So Jerry carried Maddie in his arms yet the sniffer dogs didn't find the scent on him or his clothes...your havin a laurgh!! ;D
----------------------

Ask the Smith contingent about that, and ask them if they were having a laurgh as you put it....

It was Jerry they saw carrying off Maddie that night, as for the clothing he was wearing at that time, you tell me what he did with it? Why would Sniffer dogs pay any attention to Jerry and the clothing he was wearing that night, considering he was the parent of the missing child - her scent would / might be on his clothing in any event?

Do you know who these clothes belonged to?

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:35:PM
Kate was adamant herself that Maddie hadnt wandered off somewhere.
-------------------

window open, steel shutter raised and curtains blown open and bedroom door slammed shut - and still the other two children did not stir from their sleep in their cots...

Does anyone have any idea who the other person was at the apartment when Kate apparently made her remarkable discovery that Maddie was gone?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:37:PM
Which members of the tapas group wore these clothes whilst on holiday there?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:40:PM
The Smith evidence is highly suspect for all sorts of reasons...I for one wouldn't believe a word of it.

The dogs were cadaver trained so anyone moving a dead body would have the scent on them as well.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:42:PM
Kate was adamant herself that Maddie hadnt wandered off somewhere.
-------------------

window open, steel shutter raised and curtains blown open and bedroom door slammed shut - and still the other two children did not stir from their sleep in their cots...

Does anyone have any idea who the other person was at the apartment when Kate apparently made her remarkable discovery that Maddie was gone?

Wrong again Mike.  The curtains would only blow when the bedroom door was opened creating a through draught.  Children don't awaken easily, you would know that if you had any.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:42:PM
The Smith evidence is highly suspect for all sorts of reasons...I for one wouldn't believe a word of it.

The dogs were cadaver trained so anyone moving a dead body would have the scent on them as well.
-------------------

Cadaver dogs were not brought into the case until a long time afterwards...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:45:PM
Cadaver dogs in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3AmjQgS1KI
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:47:PM
Kate was adamant herself that Maddie hadnt wandered off somewhere.
-------------------

window open, steel shutter raised and curtains blown open and bedroom door slammed shut - and still the other two children did not stir from their sleep in their cots...

Does anyone have any idea who the other person was at the apartment when Kate apparently made her remarkable discovery that Maddie was gone?

Wrong again Mike.  The curtains would only blow when the bedroom door was opened creating a through draught.  Children don't awaken easily, you would know that if you had any.
--------------------------

Wrong - I have got kids and I have got grandkids...

wrong again, curtains did not blow open when Kate initially opened the bedroom door and looked in, the bedroom door slammed shut and the curtains blew wide open when Kate was setting the door before going back to the tapas bar - what actually caused the bedroom door to slam shut and the curtains to blow wide open, was because at that precise time, someone either left the apartment, or came into the apartment via the roadside door, thus creating or generating a vacuum that slammed the bedroom door shut etc...

I know that this is / was true because I carried out experiments with the doors and windows at the apartment where I stayed whilst on holiday there...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 08:48:PM
The Smith evidence is highly suspect for all sorts of reasons...I for one wouldn't believe a word of it.

The dogs were cadaver trained so anyone moving a dead body would have the scent on them as well.

so was Jane Tanners evidence.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:50:PM
Does anyone know who the clothing in the attached photographs belonged to, or was worn by?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:52:PM
Every apartment is different and every situation different since weather condition invariable change. With the best will in the world you couldn't possible have recreated the same circumstances as occurred with Kate McCann that night.

When the bedroom door was closed the curtains would never move. This is Portugal we are talking about here and in Summer.  High humidity, dry air and calm.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 08:53:PM
Does anyone know who the clothing in the attached photographs belonged to, or was worn by?

no..........but I take it that you do? 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 08:54:PM
Does anyone know who the clothing in the attached photographs belonged to, or was worn by?

no..........but I take it that you do?

It's not Jerry's anyway!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:57:PM
Every apartment is different and every situation different since weather condition invariable change. With the best will in the world you couldn't possible have recreated the same circumstances as occurred with Kate McCann that night.

When the bedroom door was closed the curtains would never move. This is Portugal we are talking about here and in Summer.  High humidity, dry air and calm.
--------------------

How odd then that whilst making a TV documentary at the scene, that Kate speaks about how she looked into the bedroom and saw the two children in their cots but did not look to see if Maddie was in her bed, and just as she was about to set the door before returning to the tapas bar, the bedroom curtains blew wide open and the door slammed shut which caused her to re-open the bedroom door and turn the light on and discover Maddie gone...

Now why would Kate be lying to the TV cameras about what she says happened at that time?


Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 08:57:PM
Does anyone know who the clothing in the attached photographs belonged to, or was worn by?

no..........but I take it that you do?

It's not Jerry's anyway!!   ;D ;D
--------------------

How would you know that?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 09:07:PM
Why on earth would Jerry McCann want to discard a bunch of clothes in some foreign slum and walk back to his apartment wearing his underpants?

We don't even know where these pictures were taken.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:09:PM
Why on earth would Jerry McCann want to discard a bunch of clothes in some foreign slum and walk back to his apartment wearing his underpants?

We don't even know where these pictures were taken.
-------------------

Who said he discarded those clothes that night?

What do you think happened to Jerry's tennis holdall that the police were interested in?

What do you think Jeremy did with it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:12:PM
Look at these clues, found in the derelict building:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:14:PM
Jane Tanner claims she saw a faceless man carrying off Maddie, before Kate raised the alarm...

I wonder where she got that idea from?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 09:31:PM
Jane Tanners full interview with Leicestershire Police.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id222.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 03, 2011, 09:42:PM
The thing is... those dogs are not trained to find a specific person's items of clothing or live sent.  They are trained to find cadaver sent.  It's not just some mutt found wandering the streets, given a person's sock to sniff and then put on their trail.  These animals are highly trained.

 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 09:43:PM
Jane Tanner has very interesting memory recall - the description she gave of bundleman one year after her original description was very much more vivid and detailed than her first. Memory just doesn't work like that. Needless to say - she declined to attend a reconstruction. If a little girl you knew went missing and you were good friends with her Mum, wouldn't you want to do everything you possibly can to help? Reconstructions have proven to be vital in uncovering the truth many times. Jane Tanner is a bloody liar.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:46:PM
Does anyone have any idea what BAYGON insecticide might be used for?

More to the point, what would somebody be using BAYGON insecticide inside that derelict building, across the road from the church that was a favorite haunt of the McCanns?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 09:49:PM
Does anyone have any idea what BAYGON insecticide might be used for?

More to the point, what would somebody be using BAYGON insecticide inside that derelict building, across the road from the church that was a favorite haunt of the McCanns?

According to Wiki: . It is an insecticide used for extermination and control of many household pests and is very effective for crickets, roaches, ants, carpenter ants, spiders, silverfish and others.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:49:PM
You might use BAYGON insecticide to try to preserve the body of a small child, from being devoured by insects whilst it is being concealed or buried, by applying it to the bag, or covering that the body is / was wrapped inside during concealment......
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 09:54:PM
Religious fanatic?

Here, look at the way these utensils were crossed over to form the Christian cross...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:01:PM
There were other clues which led me to suspect that this derelict building could be of a place of significance, connected to the disappearance of Maddie, for example, a number of chalked crosses that were marked on a door, the exact number of which matched large stones placed along the side of a recently dug grave / hole in the grounds of the derelict building which gave a view of the churches clock tower...

Whoever dug this grave / hole, would have had sight of the clock on the church tower...

Whoever dug this grave / hole, used a metal bar to create a grave / hole deep enough to place the remains of a small child's body...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 10:05:PM
In the days after the disapperance when the media were updating daily, there was a BBC report which mentioned that Gerry had taken a defective freezer to the dump.

Who in God's name does that on holiday?! The two places the McCann's stayed in were holiday rentals, surely any freezer would have been the responsibility of the holiday firm/landlord only.

Mike, about the Baygon thing - I've learned that there are no depths the McCanns's won't stoop too, however as Doctors I think they would be very clued up on what happens to a body after death. I'm positive Madeleine was moved because of the EVRD signals on the hire car, and the bizarre pre-emptive comments about meat juices from the supermarket leaking into the boot. And the neighbour who thought it strange that they kept leaving their car boot open during the night.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:07:PM
In the days after the disapperance when the media were updating daily, there was a BBC report which mentioned that Gerry had taken a defective freezer to the dump.

Who in God's name does that on holiday?! The two places the McCann's stayed in were holiday rentals, surely any freezer would have been the responsibility of the holiday firm/landlord only.

Mike, about the Baygon thing - I've learned that there are no depths the McCanns's won't stoop too, however as Doctors I think they would be very clued up on what happens to a body after death. I'm positive Madeleine was moved because of the EVRD signals on the hire car, and the bizarre pre-emptive comments about meat juices from the supermarket leaking into the boot. And the neighbour who thought it strange that they kept leaving their car boot open during the night.
--------------------

Yes, I am with you on those points...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:11:PM
The stones which mark the grave / hole in the grounds of the derelict building appear to have been brought into the grounds from an area along the coastline, in the general area of the second horizontal drain...

As though they were placed there as markers of some kind...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 03, 2011, 10:11:PM
In the days after the disapperance when the media were updating daily, there was a BBC report which mentioned that Gerry had taken a defective freezer to the dump.

Who in God's name does that on holiday?! The two places the McCann's stayed in were holiday rentals, surely any freezer would have been the responsibility of the holiday firm/landlord only.

Mike, about the Baygon thing - I've learned that there are no depths the McCanns's won't stoop too, however as Doctors I think they would be very clued up on what happens to a body after death. I'm positive Madeleine was moved because of the EVRD signals on the hire car, and the bizarre pre-emptive comments about meat juices from the supermarket leaking into the boot. And the neighbour who thought it strange that they kept leaving their car boot open during the night.
--------------------

Yes, I am with you on those points...

Interesting..................was the freezer ever checked out?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:13:PM
In the days after the disapperance when the media were updating daily, there was a BBC report which mentioned that Gerry had taken a defective freezer to the dump.

Who in God's name does that on holiday?! The two places the McCann's stayed in were holiday rentals, surely any freezer would have been the responsibility of the holiday firm/landlord only.

Mike, about the Baygon thing - I've learned that there are no depths the McCanns's won't stoop too, however as Doctors I think they would be very clued up on what happens to a body after death. I'm positive Madeleine was moved because of the EVRD signals on the hire car, and the bizarre pre-emptive comments about meat juices from the supermarket leaking into the boot. And the neighbour who thought it strange that they kept leaving their car boot open during the night.
--------------------

Yes, I am with you on those points...

Interesting..................was the freezer ever checked out?
-----------------------

Oddly enough, there was a discarded freezer on the coastline close to where the second horizontal drain is situated / located...

I took pictures, obviously, which I will be posting in due course...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 10:17:PM
In the days after the disapperance when the media were updating daily, there was a BBC report which mentioned that Gerry had taken a defective freezer to the dump.

Who in God's name does that on holiday?! The two places the McCann's stayed in were holiday rentals, surely any freezer would have been the responsibility of the holiday firm/landlord only.

Mike, about the Baygon thing - I've learned that there are no depths the McCanns's won't stoop too, however as Doctors I think they would be very clued up on what happens to a body after death. I'm positive Madeleine was moved because of the EVRD signals on the hire car, and the bizarre pre-emptive comments about meat juices from the supermarket leaking into the boot. And the neighbour who thought it strange that they kept leaving their car boot open during the night.
--------------------

Yes, I am with you on those points...

Interesting..................was the freezer ever checked out?

I don't believe it was, Lady chelmsey. I'll go back to the files and see what I garner. Will take a while but I'll report back. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:18:PM
Drain and Grave sites are situated in view of church clock tower...

Kate and Jerry had a favorite spot on the rocks close to the horizontal drain...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 10:26:PM
If you look closely there is even a little memorial to St Jude built into the wall.  ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:28:PM
If you look closely there is even a little memorial built into the wall.
--------------------------

Mock all you like - as far as I am concerned this is where the remains of little Maddie ended up...

It was the closest they could bury her to consecrated ground...

Maddie is there in the grounds of that derelict building, and they put her there (eventually)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 10:29:PM
Aye...and the moon is made of cheese!   :-*
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:35:PM
Location of the second Horizontal drain along the coastline

some of the stones which the killer lined the grave / hole with inside the grounds of the derelict building, came from this site...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:40:PM
Just along the coast, was the church clock tower, and the other horizontal drain, and the derelict building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:45:PM
The sighting of the man who was carrying Maddie, by the Smith contingent who left Kellys bar, on the evening that Maddie supposedly went missing, was / is important, not least because it placed Jerry walking with Maddie in his arms in the general direction of the second horizontal drain...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:50:PM
Who was it that carried those large stones from the location of the other horizontal drain near to the small fishing boats, and laid them out along the side of the grave / hole that was dug in the grounds of the derelict building, across the road from the church, and up the road from the first horizontal drain? What was the purpose of carrying those individual stones, from this place to that? What sort of a bag or holdall was used in the movement of these stones?

Does anyone know what happened to Jerry's tennis holdall?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 10:54:PM
Here are some images which show discarded freezers along the coastline where the second horizontal drain is situated / located, and the small fishing boats:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 03, 2011, 11:07:PM
One of the strangest photographs I took in the grounds of the derelict building:-

I still do not understand how this image was photographed, it baffles me...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 11:11:PM
What sort of a bag or holdall was used in the movement of these stones?

Does anyone know what happened to Jerry's tennis holdall?

Yes, indeed. Remember David Payne's little Freudian slip about how there wasn't a bag big enough to hide a tennis racket in.  :o

And the amazing one he said in his statement while describing the scene he saw as Madeleine and the twins were getting ready for bed: 'they were dressed in white, like angels, they looked so at peace'.  :o

ETA: I agree about the suspicious bag stuff Mike, I think it was used to move Madeleine though, rather than stones. Interesting photo's btw. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 03, 2011, 11:51:PM
Proves absolutely nothing though...just wild theories.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Wild Rose on April 03, 2011, 11:56:PM
I'm not trying to prove it, I'm not a policewoman, I'm just discussing it.

They're not all that wild either - your view that Madeleine is perfectly fine and being looked after is to my mind more wild in light of the info in the files.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 04, 2011, 07:24:PM
i cant see how the mcanns could possible be involved in the abduction of there daughter.

how would tourist be able to dispose of a body they dident know the area.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on April 04, 2011, 08:59:PM
i cant see how the mcanns could possible be involved in the abduction of there daughter.

how would tourist be able to dispose of a body they dident know the area.

Unless they were so brazen that they took a rented apartment's fridge to the dump - is that really true? If so, anything is possible...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 04, 2011, 09:01:PM
Can the whole dead or alive question not just be wrapped up by the dogs?  Turn the equation on its' head...

How likely is it that the dogs got it wrong?

It's not very likely is it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on April 04, 2011, 10:06:PM
It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.

I thought the point was that she wasn't in the car - didn't they hire that car after she disappeared?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: sandy on April 04, 2011, 10:11:PM
The dog tests are prone to all sorts of outside variables.  The results can only be used as a tool along with other evidence and circumstances in order to put together some sort of case.

As the dog handler stated himself that no tangible or evidential consequences can be derived from the results.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 04, 2011, 10:14:PM
It is quite understandable that the dog would react to a scent which emanated from Maddie since it was Maddie they were tracking.  She was in the apartment and she was in the hire car.

I thought the point was that she wasn't in the car - didn't they hire that car after she disappeared?

That's right.  And also, dogs not trained to find scent of a person.  It's not like Sir Henry Baskerville's boot being pinched to get a rabid hound on his trail.  The dogs are cadaver dogs.  Highly trained for that specific purpose.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 05, 2011, 02:43:AM
I havent read much on this case yet,but I did find Diane Websters statement fascinating.She states that on the night of maddies disappearance,that she felt that the twins had been drugged because they slept through everything - including being carried out into the cold night to be brought to her apartment.She was under the impression that the abductor must have drugged them all.In that case why didnt the abductor take all three children? Its all a bit odd.Mike T...........what is your theory on this?Do you think the McCanns were drugging the children in order for them to stay asleep,and Maddie was accidently overdosed?Or do you think that due to the blood specks found that it was something more sinister?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on April 05, 2011, 03:17:PM
They were probably administered with a mild medication to keep them calm.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Suzie on April 05, 2011, 09:50:PM
Mike, I find your theory's a bit way out there.
 Are you saying they moved her around with the police, press and locals all watching their every move.
 The press were relentless. Don't you think someone would have noticed if they were moving things around and digging holes?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 05, 2011, 09:56:PM
Mike, I find your theory's a bit way out there.
 Are you saying they moved her around with the police, press and locals all watching their every move.
 The press were relentless. Don't you think someone would have noticed if they were moving things around and digging holes?

Wasn't the early stages of the investigation a bit like white house farm case?  That's how it was portrayed in the british media.  'lazy foreigner cops not taking things seriously'.  Mind you, I'm not so sure that actually was the case.  That Amaral is no fool. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Suzie on April 05, 2011, 10:20:PM
Mike, I find your theory's a bit way out there.
 Are you saying they moved her around with the police, press and locals all watching their every move.
 The press were relentless. Don't you think someone would have noticed if they were moving things around and digging holes?

Wasn't the early stages of the investigation a bit like white house farm case?  That's how it was portrayed in the british media.  'lazy foreigner cops not taking things seriously'.  Mind you, I'm not so sure that actually was the case.  That Amaral is no fool.
Still, even if that was the case, within hours their every move was watched and according to Mike her body was initially put in a disused drain then later moved, when?

You changed your name ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 05, 2011, 10:49:PM
Mike, I find your theory's a bit way out there.
 Are you saying they moved her around with the police, press and locals all watching their every move.
 The press were relentless. Don't you think someone would have noticed if they were moving things around and digging holes?

Wasn't the early stages of the investigation a bit like white house farm case?  That's how it was portrayed in the british media.  'lazy foreigner cops not taking things seriously'.  Mind you, I'm not so sure that actually was the case.  That Amaral is no fool.
Still, even if that was the case, within hours their every move was watched and according to Mike her body was initially put in a disused drain then later moved, when?

You changed your name ;)

I did look in to the case, I read Amaral's book etc.  Cant remember whether they were watched intitally or only part-way in to the investigation. 'Dolly' didn't suit me  ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Suzie on April 05, 2011, 10:55:PM
I thought that book was banned? Did the McCann's not go to court about it?
Dolly, Oh I think It might have ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 05, 2011, 11:29:PM
I thought that book was banned? Did the McCann's not go to court about it?
Dolly, Oh I think It might have ;D

Yeah they got it banned.  Not sure of exact reasons.  Think it was because there wwas no proof that she was not still alive (given that the dogs cannot be used as proof alone).
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bigal25 on April 06, 2011, 02:58:PM
It seems strange that there are so many experts after the event on here. I agree it was stupid of Madeleine's perents to leave her alone whilst they dinned with friends but are some of you seriously suggesting they killed her????
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 06, 2011, 03:55:PM
did,nt kill her, but were responsible for her death.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on April 06, 2011, 03:58:PM
Just think two doctors administring sleeping potion to Maddie.Career over.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 06, 2011, 04:33:PM
i cant see that theres any evedence to accuse the mcanns of anything other than being stupid.

but then they will have to live with that the rest of there lives.

wasnt the investigating officer in this case accused of beating a confession out of a mother into murdering her daughter in a earler simlar case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 06, 2011, 06:09:PM
It seems strange that there are so many experts after the event on here. I agree it was stupid of Madeleine's perents to leave her alone whilst they dinned with friends but are some of you seriously suggesting they killed her????

I know I keep banging on about the dogs.  But....  How likely is it that specialist dogs handled by a specialist dog handler, just happen to indicate that a body was likely stored in several places in an apartment, linked to a missing child.... and be wrong?  If being wrong is a very unlikely probability, then I think they're damned from the outset.  The bairn died somehow, and it was covered up... somehow.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on April 06, 2011, 10:17:PM
As I said,I dont know a lot about this case,but these things bother me-:

Why did the parents lie and say there had been a break-in when there hadnt?

Why didnt the parents bat an eyelid that the twins seemed to be sleeping a little too heavily,and yet the tapas friends found that odd?

Why did the parents never do any physical searching themselves? Left it to everyone else.

Why was Kate so insistant that Maddie had been taken,declaring that she knew her daughter hadnt walked off somewhere? How could she know that for sure? Is it because a drugged child cannot walk off?

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 07, 2011, 12:44:PM
what the dogs picked up would very much depend on what sent they were given to track.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 07, 2011, 03:02:PM
Mike, I find your theory's a bit way out there.
 Are you saying they moved her around with the police, press and locals all watching their every move.
 The press were relentless. Don't you thinj the horizontal drain, anticipating that if police stumballed upon Maddies body there...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 07, 2011, 07:31:PM
what the dogs picked up would very much depend on what sent they were given to track.

I think Cadaver dogs scent death.  I think they are trained on body farms like in the U.S.  There are other dogs that scent minute traces of human blood.  The dogs are specifically trained.   I dont think it can be argued that the dogs were given an item of Maddie's clothing, for example.  They would have picked up her scent all over the apartment.  The dogs were from a South Yorkshire specialist team.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on April 07, 2011, 08:13:PM
what the dogs picked up would very much depend on what sent they were given to track.








These two dogs, Eddie and Keela, are not tracker dogs in that they are not trained to follow the scent of a person.  Keela has been trained to detect only human blood even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.  The other dog, Eddie, has been trained to detect human remains and cadaver odour.  They have been used in hundreds of cases.  Obviously, they can't denote who the person was and are just a tool to be used alongside all other evidence.

The interesting thing about them being used in this case is that they alerted to two places in the holiday apartment -both of them behind the sofa, with just Eddie alerting at the wardrobe in the parents' bedroom.  He also alerted at the flower bed outside.

Other places they alerted to were an item of Madeleine's clothing, the cuddle cat, Kate's trousers, the luggage area of the hire car and the car keys.

Kate's response was that she had worn the trousers to work the previous week leading up to the holiday, where she was present at six deaths of patients during her work as a part-time GP, and that she had also taken the soft toy to work with her.   The smell in the boot of car was put down to 'dirty nappies'.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 08, 2011, 12:19:PM
couldent the smell of blood be explined by the presnce of say sanintry towls.

i think if you a dog into most houses it would be able to smell blood.

as for smelling death what does death smell like.

i dident know it had a smell.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on April 08, 2011, 01:04:PM
couldent the smell of blood be explined by the presnce of say sanintry towls.

i think if you a dog into most houses it would be able to smell blood.

as for smelling death what does death smell like.

i dident know it had a smell.

Well, I think we are talking about recently deceased corspes here.  There may be no discernable smell left in the area where the corpse was originally deposited, to the human nose.  Dogs obviously have a sense of smell far in excess of human sensory abilities.  And these particular dogs are trained around corpses and rewarded for their discovery by their handlers. There will be minute traces of certain organic chemicals where a corpse has been stored.  Like a sort of minute trace recognition, that a dog would pick up on but a human would not.   
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on April 08, 2011, 08:59:PM
I think that the lungs begin to give off a certain odour as soon as they stop working, hence flies being attracted to the nostrils quite soon after death.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 08, 2011, 11:31:PM
i cant see hoe the mcanns could have dumped a body without the police or somebody else noticeing.

wouldent the police have looked all over the apartment in the first place.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on April 11, 2011, 01:22:PM
I believe those who hold the McCann's culpable allege that Maddie was removed from the apartment by Jerry as it was he who was apparently seen carrying a child down the street towards the beach.

He is supposed to have recovered the body later and buried her in a garden near the church. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on April 11, 2011, 09:18:PM
I believe those who hold the McCann's culpable allege that Maddie was removed from the apartment by Jerry as it was he who was apparently seen carrying a child down the street towards the beach.

He is supposed to have recovered the body later and buried her in a garden near the church.

So you've read Mike's posts in this thread then?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 11, 2011, 09:55:PM
so if the body was burnt in a near come the police didn't find any trace of this.

who saw Jerry mcann carrying a child down towards the beach

if this witness was reliable wouldn't the mcanns have been charged.

after the disappearance the entire world and as his wife were watching the mcanns every move.

wouldn't have been very easy for them to have disposed of body without being noticed
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 07, 2011, 03:26:PM
The key period in the solving of this case, is what took place between the parents, and their friends, between about 9.20pm, and 10pm, that evening. Who was present at the tapas bar, who left and went to the apartments, and who did not return to the tapas bar at around the time Kate returned to break the news that Maddie had been taken?

She was not abducted by any stranger, in my opinion...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 07, 2011, 03:45:PM
and who saw the mcanns going out who ever did it would of had to have be watching them for a fair while
it somone else who stayed there or somone who worked there.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 07, 2011, 03:59:PM
This was an inside job, not one carried out by any outsider...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 07, 2011, 04:30:PM
dident another little girl go missing very near by that area and the police blamed the mother for it even going so far as to beat a confession out of her.

i think it was the same cop who investigated this case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 08, 2011, 11:05:PM
In Kate McCanns account about how Gerry had lowered the shutter of the bedroom window after finding Maddie gone, and how he had gone outside and raised up the steel shutter - this could not have happened, because the shutter at the bedroom window is fitted with a safety device to prevent anyone opening the shutter from outside the room. In order to open the shutter, you need to be inside the bedroom and you need to be manipulating a strap on the right hand side of the window which you need to pull away from the wall slightly and drag downwards - this will raise the steel shutter on the outside of the bedroom window. As far as is known, the steel shutter at the bedroom window, was not faulty and was in perfect working order at the time of the alleged disappearance of Maddie from apartment 5a...

I am returning to Portugal next week...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 08, 2011, 11:22:PM
oh i dont know that mike how did you get to see the statement.

is it public can anyone look at it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 08, 2011, 11:29:PM
oh i dont know that mike how did you get to see the statement.

is it public can anyone look at it.
----------------

Case has been serialized in the Sun Newspaper from Saturday - it mentions it in Saturdays edition, and continues tomorrow in the Sun...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 08, 2011, 11:35:PM
dont think im haveing pop at you mike but are you saying your source for all this newspaper.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 13, 2011, 03:20:PM
Congratulations to David Cameron for instructing a comprehensive review in the Madeleine McCann disappearance.  Maybe this time round it will be substantiated that Maddy was indeed kidnapped by a person or persons unknown and that the McCann's have no culpability in her abduction as suggested by members of this forum.

(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01309/SNA1301AZ-280_1309468a.jpg)

The Sun Article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3578232/PM-David-Cameron-reopens-Maddie-McCann-files.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz1MCQymLmW)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 15, 2011, 09:51:AM
Congratulations to David Cameron for instructing a comprehensive review in the Madeleine McCann disappearance.  Maybe this time round it will be sunstantiated that Maddy was indeed kidnapped by a person or persons unknown and that the McCann's have no culpability in her abduction as suggested by members of this forum.

(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01309/SNA1301AZ-280_1309468a.jpg)

The Sun Article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3578232/PM-David-Cameron-reopens-Maddie-McCann-files.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz1MCQymLmW)

This is another one of those cases which is a huge enigma.  When I read that Amaral book, I went about 80/20 against the McCanns in terms of their culpability or knowledge of what happened.  I still dont know what to make re their dismissal of the cadaver and blood dogs, especially the hire car.   But to be so brazen as to force a Scotland Yard enquiry by appealing to the highest authority in the country just does not make them look guilty at all.  Can any of you remember when it had been suggested that U.S. satellite technology could potentially be used to examine what happened that evening? 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 15, 2011, 10:07:AM
Amaral's book... 'Truth of the Lie' if anyone is interested and hasn't already read it...

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on May 15, 2011, 11:08:AM
those children should NOT have been left on their own. had an adult been with them maddie would still be here, simple as that.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 15, 2011, 12:51:PM
Congratulations to David Cameron for instructing a comprehensive review in the Madeleine McCann disappearance.  Maybe this time round it will be sunstantiated that Maddy was indeed kidnapped by a person or persons unknown and that the McCann's have no culpability in her abduction as suggested by members of this forum.

(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01309/SNA1301AZ-280_1309468a.jpg)

The Sun Article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3578232/PM-David-Cameron-reopens-Maddie-McCann-files.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz1MCQymLmW)

This is another one of those cases which is a huge enigma.  When I read that Amaral book, I went about 80/20 against the McCanns in terms of their culpability or knowledge of what happened.  I still dont know what to make re their dismissal of the cadaver and blood dogs, especially the hire car.   But to be so brazen as to force a Scotland Yard enquiry by appealing to the highest authority in the country just does not make them look guilty at all.  Can any of you remember when it had been suggested that U.S. satellite technology could potentially be used to examine what happened that evening?

I very much agree Rochford, what the hell was all that about?

It beggars belief that Amaral and the Portuguese police could get it so wrong but it happens. I wonder were they trying to take the easy way out and blame the parents?  Would that get them off the hook?

Kate and Gerry are bloody lucky not to be serving a prison sentence in Portugal at this time.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 15, 2011, 12:53:PM
those children should NOT have been left on their own. had an adult been with them maddie would still be here, simple as that.

Pleeeeeeaaase......do you have children Andrea and if you do, did you never ever leave them on their own?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chochokeira on May 15, 2011, 01:09:PM
Congratulations to David Cameron for instructing a comprehensive review in the Madeleine McCann disappearance.  Maybe this time round it will be substantiated that Maddy was indeed kidnapped by a person or persons unknown and that the McCann's have no culpability in her abduction as suggested by members of this forum.

(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01309/SNA1301AZ-280_1309468a.jpg)

The Sun Article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3578232/PM-David-Cameron-reopens-Maddie-McCann-files.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz1MCQymLmW)


I agree with you, John, my view is that if there were grounds to charge the McCanns that would have happened by now.  The McCanns are innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. I am appalled by the witch hunt and vendetta against this couple. Those who claim that McCanns' responses and manner suggest their guilt should try to imagine how haunted and guilty they might appear to be if, following their child's disappearance, they were made the subject of a world wide internet witch hunt partly led by disturbed individuals with their own agendas.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 15, 2011, 01:33:PM
Congratulations to David Cameron for instructing a comprehensive review in the Madeleine McCann disappearance.  Maybe this time round it will be substantiated that Maddy was indeed kidnapped by a person or persons unknown and that the McCann's have no culpability in her abduction as suggested by members of this forum.

(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01309/SNA1301AZ-280_1309468a.jpg)

The Sun Article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3578232/PM-David-Cameron-reopens-Maddie-McCann-files.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz1MCQymLmW)


I agree with you, John, my view is that if there were grounds to charge the McCanns that would have happened by now.  The McCanns are innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. I am appalled by the witch hunt and vendetta against this couple. Those who claim that McCanns' responses and manner suggest their guilt should try to imagine how haunted and guilty they might appear to be if, following their child's disappearance, they were made the subject of a world wide internet witch hunt partly led by disturbed individuals with their own agendas.

I find posts by people like Mike who try to say that Maddy is buried in some corner of a garden and go on to post photographs of such a site to be wholly unhelpful.  Such comments add nothing to this debate.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 15, 2011, 02:03:PM
John, what's your opinion on the dogs?  I think Amaral and the PJ genuinely believed that the mcCanns knew more than they were letting on.  But Amaral was cut adrift, initially for political reasons... but then his book was banned from publication / general sale... by a portugese court, at the request of the McCann's. 

The McCann's are obviously highly intelligent people... but to carry off a lie of such magnitude seems beyond the realms of credibility.  Mind you, our mate Jeremy... also appears to have mindbending powers of manipulation  ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 15, 2011, 03:25:PM
The issue with the cadaver dogs is rather strange. Most likely they detected a false scent of some sort which got everyone all excited.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Alias on May 16, 2011, 04:51:PM
those children should NOT have been left on their own. had an adult been with them maddie would still be here, simple as that.

Pleeeeeeaaase......do you have children Andrea and if you do, did you never ever leave them on their own?

That small children should never EVER be left unattended at any time. There was a babysitter service at the hotel the McCanns were staying at - they could have used that, had a pleasant night with their friends and Maddie would still be here.
They have to pay with what must be almost unbearable grief the rest of their lives for a very poor decision.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 16, 2011, 09:45:PM
Very, very true, abs, the McCanns have paid so dearly for their mistake. If I'm honest, I don't know many mums who haven't left a sleeping baby in the car while they've maybe nipped into school with an older child, something like that. It's a terrible gamble. But from what is being reported, Kate and Gerry seemed to leave their much-wanted, IVF children too often, or place them in various "clubs" while they went running, played tennis.............if they wanted a "grown-up" holiday, where they could socialise with their pals most nights, maybe they should have left the children at home, this once, with family. I'm possibly being unfair, but I alternate between feeling utter despair for them, and huge anger that they thought that they could leave 3 children sleeping, and occasionally pop in and check that their shapes were still under the blankets. But I so wish that they could find closure, and some sort of peace.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 17, 2011, 03:23:PM
Im so paranoid about anything happening to my daughter that if shes in bed at night i wont even sit out on our back garden unless i have baby moniter on (and shes 5!!!)

I always remember that little girl who was abducted out of her bathroom whilst her mum was on the phone or something and it made me worry so much!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 17, 2011, 03:36:PM
Very, very true, abs, the McCanns have paid so dearly for their mistake. If I'm honest, I don't know many mums who haven't left a sleeping baby in the car while they've maybe nipped into school with an older child, something like that. It's a terrible gamble. But from what is being reported, Kate and Gerry seemed to leave their much-wanted, IVF children too often, or place them in various "clubs" while they went running, played tennis.............if they wanted a "grown-up" holiday, where they could socialise with their pals most nights, maybe they should have left the children at home, this once, with family. I'm possibly being unfair, but I alternate between feeling utter despair for them, and huge anger that they thought that they could leave 3 children sleeping, and occasionally pop in and check that their shapes were still under the blankets. But I so wish that they could find closure, and some sort of peace.

I think they just got into the habit of doing what they did Shona and possibly created a false sense of security. They didn't ask an intruder to abduct their daughter but as you state, they are paying a terrible price for it now.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: grahame on May 17, 2011, 07:38:PM
Very, very true, abs, the McCanns have paid so dearly for their mistake. If I'm honest, I don't know many mums who haven't left a sleeping baby in the car while they've maybe nipped into school with an older child, something like that. It's a terrible gamble. But from what is being reported, Kate and Gerry seemed to leave their much-wanted, IVF children too often, or place them in various "clubs" while they went running, played tennis.............if they wanted a "grown-up" holiday, where they could socialise with their pals most nights, maybe they should have left the children at home, this once, with family. I'm possibly being unfair, but I alternate between feeling utter despair for them, and huge anger that they thought that they could leave 3 children sleeping, and occasionally pop in and check that their shapes were still under the blankets. But I so wish that they could find closure, and some sort of peace.

I think they just got into the habit of doing what they did Shona and possibly created a false sense of security. They didn't ask an intruder to abduct their daughter but as you state, they are paying a terrible price for it now.
Wow! John, I can't believe I am agreeing with you?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 17, 2011, 10:15:PM
I think the cadaver dogs were just having a bad day...(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-animal-028.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons.php)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on May 19, 2011, 12:25:AM
Mike - what news from your recent trip to Portugal?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 19, 2011, 02:53:AM
I wonder what his next fantasy will be?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: chelmsey on May 19, 2011, 10:52:AM
Has he gone to Portugal for a holiday? The McCanns are due over there at any time now to promote their book.I take it that Mikes choice of dates for his trip is not coincidental?   ;)

I just hope he doesnt bump in to the McCanns.................god could you imagine?   :o
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 19, 2011, 06:28:PM
Here's one of Mike on holiday in Portugal...

(http://i.imgur.com/SiAzd.jpg)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on May 19, 2011, 06:38:PM
Here's one of Mike on holiday in Portugal...

(http://i.imgur.com/SiAzd.jpg)

Did you go with him then?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 02:06:PM
Cancelled holiday to Portugal, because it coincided with return to Portugal of McCanns, and the opening of the review by Metropolitan police into the case. Instead went to Turkey, just got back this morning...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 02:09:PM
I will be making the information I gathered as part of my investigation into this case, available to the Metropolitan police review in due course, including all the photographic evidence I gathered whilst there, and the conclusions I came to, and arrived at...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 03:13:PM
I firmly believe that the remains of Maddie will be found in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL...

Only time will tell...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 03:32:PM
Gerry McCann knows more than he is letting on...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 03:38:PM
I believe that if the mattress that was present inside the derelict building is / was examined for DNA, it will prove or establish that Maddie was there inside that building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 20, 2011, 04:01:PM
Some people in Portugal believe that Gerry McCann dumped Maddie's body without Kate's knowledge.

There were a number of eye witness reports of someone of Gerry's description carrying Maddie away from the apartment - additional to the the family from Ireland. Certainly one from a waiter nearby - translated into 7 languages if my memory serves me well.

I'm not sure if the following Google search is still live....'Black bin liner McCann'.

The marriage between the McCann's may have been ( and remains ) something of a sham.

Welcome home Mike!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 04:01:PM
DNA evidence, clue?

Concealed clothing found in the grounds of the derelict building could hold DNA clues connected with the disappearance of Maddie McCann...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 04:06:PM
Some people in Portugal believe that Gerry McCann dumped Maddie's body without Kate's knowledge.

There were a number of eye witness reports of someone of Gerry's description carrying Maddie away from the apartment - additional to the the family from Ireland. Certainly one from a waiter nearby - translated into 7 languages if my memory serves me well.

I'm not sure if the following Google search is still live....'Black bin liner McCann'.

The marriage between the McCann's may have been ( and remains ) something of a sham.

Welcome home Mike!
--------------

Hi Ya...

Key time period for me, is between about 8:55pm, and 10pm...

There is something not quite right about the movements of Gerry, and his friends. between the tapas bar, and apartment block 5...

The key to solving this crime rests with these characters...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 04:07:PM
Bones found inside grounds of Derelict building could hold DNA clues in Maddie disappearance
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 20, 2011, 04:29:PM
Mike, do you think there was an agreement by Gerry and Jane Tanner to come up with the smokescreen of someone seen carrying a child away? The Tapas 9 seemed reluctant to agree to any form of re-construction. Seemed to me that Jane Tanner changed her story each time that she told it - somewhat akin to Ms Mugford.

On another point entirely...came across 2 dead bodies in a single dog walk here in Colchester on Tuesday evening...police in attendance at each scene. One white male hanging from a tree....followed 30 minutes later by a body under a blanket outside a flat - 'gunshot wounds to the stomach'....and all the locals saying 'you don't expect that kind of thing around here'....as per usual....still  no confirmation of identity of either victim...second believed male also.

Colchester has a very high suicide rate with very few reported in the media.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 04:53:PM
Mike, do you think there was an agreement by Gerry and Jane Tanner to come up with the smokescreen of someone seen carrying a child away? The Tapas 9 seemed reluctant to agree to any form of re-construction. Seemed to me that Jane Tanner changed her story each time that she told it - somewhat akin to Ms Mugford.

On another point entirely...came across 2 dead bodies in a single dog walk here in Colchester on Tuesday evening...police in attendance at each scene. One white male hanging from a tree....followed 30 minutes later by a body under a blanket outside a flat - 'gunshot wounds to the stomach'....and all the locals saying 'you don't expect that kind of thing around here'....as per usual....still  no confirmation of identity of either victim...second believed male also.

Colchester has a very high suicide rate with very few reported in the media.
-----------------------

Funny you should mention Jane Tanner, I find her evidence very suspect - in the serialized McCann parents story in the sun recently, Kate speaks about Jane Tanner's description of Maddie's pajamas, as being some sort of proof that Jane did see a man carrying off, the child, but what if Tanner was involved in the disappearance? She would have also known what Pajamas Maddie was wearing at the time she was taken?

Jane Tanner could have been part of the events which led up to Maddie disappearing from apartment 5a, in my opinion...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:00:PM
I will be making the information I gathered as part of my investigation into this case, available to the Metropolitan police review in due course, including all the photographic evidence I gathered whilst there, and the conclusions I came to, and arrived at...

It's a pity you missed the McCann interview on Sky TV Mike, they really are such a lovely couple.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 05:03:PM
I will be making the information I gathered as part of my investigation into this case, available to the Metropolitan police review in due course, including all the photographic evidence I gathered whilst there, and the conclusions I came to, and arrived at...

It's a pity you missed the McCann interview on Sky TV Mike, they really are such a lovely couple.
--------------

Yes, I would have liked to have seen that...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:05:PM
I firmly believe that the remains of Maddie will be found in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL...

Only time will tell...

Utter nonsense Mike, your basis for that belief is pure fantasy.  Why do you post such nonsense, what have the McCann's ever done to you?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:07:PM
Some people in Portugal believe that Gerry McCann dumped Maddie's body without Kate's knowledge.

There were a number of eye witness reports of someone of Gerry's description carrying Maddie away from the apartment - additional to the the family from Ireland. Certainly one from a waiter nearby - translated into 7 languages if my memory serves me well.

I'm not sure if the following Google search is still live....'Black bin liner McCann'.

The marriage between the McCann's may have been ( and remains ) something of a sham.

Welcome home Mike!

Is that the same Gerry McCann who was sat having his evening meal in the nearby Tapas bar?

Maybe he has a doppelgänger?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 20, 2011, 05:08:PM
Funny how Jane Tanner's 'egg man' gradually grew into that photo identikit...with brown shoes glowing in the darkness no less!

Funny also that she may not even have been anywhere near 5a at the time she quotes....certainly not seen by Gerry's tennis compatriot at the time....nor come to think of it, by Gerry himself!

No wonder the re-construction was a problem.

Something else...did you know that the Secret Service in Portugal worked on the case from around Day 2 or 3? They may have been tracking the McCann's.

Gerry does at least seem to have some kind of alibi around this time....by way of the street conversation.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 20, 2011, 05:15:PM
with all that media and police attention from day 1

the mcans couldn't have done anything without being caught

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:17:PM
You know nugnug I will have to agree with you on that one. Could this be the rebirth of a wonderful relationship?   (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angelic013.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 05:17:PM
I firmly believe that the remains of Maddie will be found in the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL...

Only time will tell...

Utter nonsense Mike, your basis for that belief is pure fantasy.  Why do you post such nonsense, what have the McCann's ever done to you?
-----------------------

You call it what you will, wait and see - you haven't been there, you don't know...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 05:20:PM
Once the grounds of the derelict building are thoroughly searched, and items found there are forensically examined for DNA, the truth about what happened to Maddie will eventually be revealed for the world to see...


Lets us not forget that soon after Maddie went missing that the parents used to visit this church in the middle of the night, a derelict building only a matter of yards away, where the body of a poor little child victim could easily be disposed of in complete seclusion:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 05:35:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:39:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 05:53:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
----------------------

police records and visual examination, see the photographs later and make your own mind up...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 05:56:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
----------------------

police records and visual examination, see the photographs later and make your own mind up...

So you are privy to police records in Portugal now?  ...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 08:02:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
----------------------

police records and visual examination, see the photographs later and make your own mind up...

So you are privy to police records in Portugal now?  ...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
------------------

Stop being an idiot - of course I have had access to some police records like anyone else who has read the Maddie case files. Why is it that all you appear to do is try to cause trouble, as though your some sort of superhuman being who knows everything? Now if you want to talk or debate then fine, but otherwise get lost...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Paul on May 20, 2011, 08:09:PM
Here's one of Mike on holiday in Portugal...

(http://i.imgur.com/SiAzd.jpg)

Did you go with him then?

Made me laugh! +1
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 08:54:PM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
----------------------

police records and visual examination, see the photographs later and make your own mind up...

So you are privy to police records in Portugal now?  ...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
------------------

Stop being an idiot - of course I have had access to some police records like anyone else who has read the Maddie case files. Why is it that all you appear to do is try to cause trouble, as though your some sort of superhuman being who knows everything? Now if you want to talk or debate then fine, but otherwise get lost...

Charming...is that the attitude that advocates for Jeremy Beagle Bamber should be promoting?

Funny how everyone who disagrees with you is causing trouble?

Why am I not surprised?    (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad056.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 09:04:PM
Nice snaps but what do they tell us other than the sun shines brightly in Portugal?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 20, 2011, 09:14:PM
Mike you cant call people names just because they challenge your opinion!

If you think it needs searching grab a spade and dig away, take Jackie with you i could do with a break from her copy and paste posts!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 09:18:PM
Mike you cant call people names just because they challenge your opinion!

If you think it needs searching grab a spade and dig away, take Jackie with you i could do with a break from her copy and paste posts!
--------------

Lets get the facts right, anyone starts making the kind of remarks these people keep making, I am entitled to say whatever I want to them. Its not a case of anyone agreeing with what I say or not, its the comments and the way these people make them which will always get the same kind of response from me - simple, anybody can say anything and believe in anything, no need to make insulting comments about anyone, unless those people take the first step - anyway I don't particularly care what anyone thinks of me...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 20, 2011, 09:34:PM
I hope the McCann's get their child back sooner than later and put this nonsense to rest once and for all.  You would think some people didn't want a happy ending the way they go on?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 10:41:PM
I hope the McCann's get their child back sooner than later and put this nonsense to rest once and for all.  You would think some people didn't want a happy ending the way they go on?
---------------------

We would all like to think that it will have an happy ending but it won't turn out like that sadly, because Maddie is in the spirit world...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 11:31:PM
Place where McCanns hired hire car was across the street from the church, and next door to the derelict building - making it convenient for the perpetrators to move the body and evidence from place to place in the boot of the hire car. Fact that hire car was parked up in street outside the church and near to the hire shop and derelict building did little to raise anyones suspicions...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 20, 2011, 11:34:PM
To whom do the clothes found in the derelict building belong to, which member of the "tapas 9" group?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 21, 2011, 01:23:AM
Mike, did you bring any samples back (e.g. soil or clothing) that could be tested for DNA?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: CHRIS T on May 21, 2011, 07:29:AM
My week long attendance in PDL looking into the circumstances of this case, led me to the grounds of a derelict building opposite the church, which became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - I will be posting all the photographs I took (shortly) whilst carrying out a brief examination of the scene, on that occasion. It soon became clear that this place had not been throughly searched as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann. It has still not yet been throughly searched, despite me drawing the attention of the Portuguese police to this site and the clues I discovered there...

How would you know if it had been searched Mike?
----------------------

police records and visual examination, see the photographs later and make your own mind up...

So you are privy to police records in Portugal now?  ...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
------------------

Stop being an idiot - of course I have had access to some police records like anyone else who has read the Maddie case files. Why is it that all you appear to do is try to cause trouble, as though your some sort of superhuman being who knows everything? Now if you want to talk or debate then fine, but otherwise get lost...

Charming...is that the attitude that advocates for Jeremy Beagle Bamber should be promoting?

Funny how everyone who disagrees with you is causing trouble?

Why am I not surprised?    (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad056.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Why do you have to be so sarcastic, rude, insulting and condescending, in almost all of your posts to other members on here, John? It is really beginning to piss people off! In case you hadn't noticed, there are many individuals out there who are suspicious of the account/story the McCann's have given, and continue to give, regarding the disappearance of their daughter, (and for very good reason). It does not mean that those who have a hard time buying the McCann's official story do not want to see a happy ending in this case, on the contrary, all they want to see is justice done for little Maddie, whoever is behind her disappearance.

I for one respect Mike T for the work he is doing in this case (as i do regarding all he has done, and continues to do for Jeremy Bambers). I don't see anything at all wrong with his attitude (shame we can't say the same about yours), and he is respectful to members at all times. The only time he is not, is when it is called for.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 21, 2011, 08:28:AM
John is clearly an aka for Daphne.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 10:08:AM
Im so paranoid about anything happening to my daughter that if shes in bed at night i wont even sit out on our back garden unless i have baby moniter on (and shes 5!!!)

I always remember that little girl who was abducted out of her bathroom whilst her mum was on the phone or something and it made me worry so much!

That happened just over the water from my town.  Thank God the little mite was found.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 21, 2011, 10:33:AM
Im so paranoid about anything happening to my daughter that if shes in bed at night i wont even sit out on our back garden unless i have baby moniter on (and shes 5!!!)

I always remember that little girl who was abducted out of her bathroom whilst her mum was on the phone or something and it made me worry so much!

That happened just over the water from my town.  Thank God the little mite was found.

Yes thank god!

Too many nutcases around now for our kids to be safe anywhere!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tonyb on May 21, 2011, 10:34:AM
Place where McCanns hired hire car was across the street from the church, and next door to the derelict building - making it convenient for the perpetrators to move the body and evidence from place to place in the boot of the hire car. Fact that hire car was parked up in street outside the church and near to the hire shop and derelict building did little to raise anyones suspicions...
  Isn't that the car the police impounded to examine? I'll be the first to admit I don't know or if it's been brought up earlier but if a body had of been in the car there would be trace evidence?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 10:44:AM
Place where McCanns hired hire car was across the street from the church, and next door to the derelict building - making it convenient for the perpetrators to move the body and evidence from place to place in the boot of the hire car. Fact that hire car was parked up in street outside the church and near to the hire shop and derelict building did little to raise anyones suspicions...
  Isn't that the car the police impounded to examine? I'll be the first to admit I don't know or if it's been brought up earlier but if a body had of been in the car there would be trace evidence?

According to the dogs there was.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 10:46:AM
Upon my return to the Uk, after my week long stay in PDL, I sent the photographs I took of the derelict building and its grounds, including the bones, and the clothing, to the Portuguese police, asking them to carry out a proper investigation of the site, and for them to seize the clothing, which I believe was worn by one of the persons involved in the disappearance of Maddie from apartment 5a...

They confirmed receipt of my email and attachments to them...

Items of clothing found there, may contain crucial DNA evidence, belonging to the perpetrator, and Maddie - sizes for each garment and the labels upon them will obviously provide fundamental clues as to the identity of the individual concerned, as well as possible clues as to where those items were purchased from, by way of credit cards, or whatever...

What struck me, when I examined the clothing was that there were individual strands of light colored hair attached to the jumper / pullover, which could possibly have been a link to Maddie...

The bones I discovered at the site, need to be examined to establish whether they are human, and for DNA, if they are...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 10:51:AM
Hire car...

This was rented by the McCanns at the local car hire shop in PDL, opposite the church and next door to the derelict building - it would not have looked out of place being parked up in the street outside the hire shop after it was hired by the McCanns...

It could so easily have been parked up at night adjacent to the derelict building so that at an opportune moment, things could have been taken or placed into the boot, between it and the derelict building or vice Versa...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 01:31:PM
Mike... I'm assuming you have read 'Truth of the Lie' by Amaral.  Do you have an opinion on his arguments?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 02:59:PM
Mike... I'm assuming you have read 'Truth of the Lie' by Amaral.  Do you have an opinion on his arguments?
------------

Yes, I have read, "truth of the lie", and I think he made some very good points that expose the myth that Maddie was abducted by a stranger from apartment 5a, in between about 9:05pm and 10pm that evening whilst her parents were wining and dining at the nearby tapas bar. I with Amaral, in his view that members of the tapas bar helped to dispose of the body, or knew something about Maddie's disappearance, more than they were letting on...

Although he concludes as a result of the cadaver / bloodhound dogs, that Maddie's body was concealed at the apartment behind the settee in the lounge, or in the main bedroom in a space between the side of the bed, and a cupboard, and in the garden beneath the patio veranda, I have had time to reflect a little, and I am now of the opinion that Maddies body would not necessarily have had to be there, it could have been clothing worn by either Maddie or the person or persons who were responsible for moving Maddies body at a later stage - for example, clothing, or a bag, or anything that could have been used to wrap up Maddie's remains whilst it was being moved from one place to another could have been placed out of sight temporarily, in the places or locations where the dogs gave a positive reaction and this is what the dogs picked up on?

The same argument could be made for the way the dogs reacted at the boot of the hire car - things could have been carried in the boot that was either worn, or used during the displacement of the body at a later time to its current location...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 03:22:PM
Mike... I'm assuming you have read 'Truth of the Lie' by Amaral.  Do you have an opinion on his arguments?
------------

Yes, I have read, "truth of the lie", and I think he made some very good points that expose the myth that Maddie was abducted by a stranger from apartment 5a, in between about 9:05pm and 10pm that evening whilst her parents were wining and dining at the nearby tapas bar. I with Amaral, in his view that members of the tapas bar helped to dispose of the body, or knew something about Maddie's disappearance, more than they were letting on...

Although he concludes as a result of the cadaver / bloodhound dogs, that Maddie's body was concealed at the apartment behind the settee in the lounge, or in the main bedroom in a space between the side of the bed, and a cupboard, and in the garden beneath the patio veranda, I have had time to reflect a little, and I am now of the opinion that Maddies body would not necessarily have had to be there, it could have been clothing worn by either Maddie or the person or persons who were responsible for moving Maddies body at a later stage - for example, clothing, or a bag, or anything that could have been used to wrap up Maddie's remains whilst it was being moved from one place to another could have been placed out of sight temporarily, in the places or locations where the dogs gave a positive reaction and this is what the dogs picked up on?

The same argument could be made for the way the dogs reacted at the boot of the hire car - things could have been carried in the boot that was either worn, or used during the displacement of the body at a later time to its current location...

I bought in to his arguments to.  I can see your point about items having been in contact with maddie postmortem.  Those dogs pretty much sealed my opinions against the McCann's and their associates having some knowledge what happened.  I cant understand how anyone can write them off.  But i cant understand how the McCann's could take the stance that they since have.  If they do know what actually happened, stirring up further high level enquires would amount to a brazenness difficult to comprehend. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 04:01:PM
Mike... I'm assuming you have read 'Truth of the Lie' by Amaral.  Do you have an opinion on his arguments?
------------

Yes, I have read, "truth of the lie", and I think he made some very good points that expose the myth that Maddie was abducted by a stranger from apartment 5a, in between about 9:05pm and 10pm that evening whilst her parents were wining and dining at the nearby tapas bar. I with Amaral, in his view that members of the tapas bar helped to dispose of the body, or knew something about Maddie's disappearance, more than they were letting on...

Although he concludes as a result of the cadaver / bloodhound dogs, that Maddie's body was concealed at the apartment behind the settee in the lounge, or in the main bedroom in a space between the side of the bed, and a cupboard, and in the garden beneath the patio veranda, I have had time to reflect a little, and I am now of the opinion that Maddies body would not necessarily have had to be there, it could have been clothing worn by either Maddie or the person or persons who were responsible for moving Maddies body at a later stage - for example, clothing, or a bag, or anything that could have been used to wrap up Maddie's remains whilst it was being moved from one place to another could have been placed out of sight temporarily, in the places or locations where the dogs gave a positive reaction and this is what the dogs picked up on?

The same argument could be made for the way the dogs reacted at the boot of the hire car - things could have been carried in the boot that was either worn, or used during the displacement of the body at a later time to its current location...

I bought in to his arguments to.  I can see your point about items having been in contact with maddie postmortem.  Those dogs pretty much sealed my opinions against the McCann's and their associates having some knowledge what happened.  I cant understand how anyone can write them off.  But i cant understand how the McCann's could take the stance that they since have.  If they do know what actually happened, stirring up further high level enquires would amount to a brazenness difficult to comprehend.
---------------------

If the hire car was used to move the remains of Maddie from one place to the other, in the boot of the hire car, or to carry items used in the removal, displacement and disposal of her remains, the dogs would have reacted in the way they did, without the body necessarily having physically been in the boot...

As I say...

if the hire car had been parked up outside in the street near the car hire shop, church and derelict building, it would not have raised any eyebrows, or suspicion because the hire car would normally be parked up in that part of the street on the occasions it was waiting to be hired...

Let us remind ourselves also, that the church became a favorite haunt of the McCann parents - they were given a key to the church doors so that they could go there in the middle of the night, a feature which upset the local residents/ parishioners...

Just across the street, was the derelict building, with its isolated grounds...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 04:06:PM
Significance of the Smith family sighting:-

Gerry McCann  was identified as the person seen carrying a child who could have been Maddie, in close proximity to "LUZdoc", and may have been an attempt by him to get medical assistance, but it was closed at the time of the alleged sighting...

The LUZdoc building is situated down towards the coastline, in the general direction where the Smith contingent were confronted by the man who could have been Gerry McCann...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 21, 2011, 04:14:PM
Significance of the Smith family sighting:-

Gerry McCann  was identified as the person seen carrying a child who could have been Maddie, in close proximity to "LUZdoc", and may have been an attempt by him to get medical assistance, but it was closed at the time of the alleged sighting...

The LUZdoc building is situated down towards the coastline, in the general direction where the Smith contingent were confronted by the man who could have been Gerry McCann...

He has a doppelgänger then as he couldn't be in two places at once? 

It was said that the child could have been MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following. It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.'
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 04:22:PM
Significance of the Smith family sighting:-

Gerry McCann  was identified as the person seen carrying a child who could have been Maddie, in close proximity to "LUZdoc", and may have been an attempt by him to get medical assistance, but it was closed at the time of the alleged sighting...

The LUZdoc building is situated down towards the coastline, in the general direction where the Smith contingent were confronted by the man who could have been Gerry McCann...

He has a doppelgänger then as he couldn't be in two places at once? 

It was said that the child could have been MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following. It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.'
--------------------------

There is no proof that Gerry McCann was sat at the tapas bar restaurant at the time the Smith family saw the man carrying off Maddie, the CCTV machine in the bar was not working that night, at least that is what I understand from reading the Maddie files. The stories given by different members of the tapas 9 do not add up, about the movements of everybody, timings are out, and reasons for being absent from the bar are not clear, in all cases...

Smith family say that they left Kellys bar, at about 9:30pm, it does not mean that it was 9:30pm, and in any event there would be some delay between leaving Kellys bar and the spot where they were confronted by the man carrying the child who could have been Maddie...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 21, 2011, 04:29:PM
In an interview with the Drogheda Independent the Smiths state that they remembered passing a man walking towards the beach with a child in his arms.
 
Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes they cannot be more specific than that. 'We are annoyed at how vague our description is,' said the family member.

From the horses mouth...why did they not return to Portugal for the reconstruction?

Drogheda Independent article (http://www.drogheda-independent.ie/frontpage/drogheda-family-hit-out-over-madeleine-case-clue-coverage-1060695.html)

The Smith's sighting (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 04:34:PM
In an interview with the Drogheda Independent the Smiths state that they remembered passing a man walking towards the beach with a child in his arms.
 
Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes they cannot be more specific than that. 'We are annoyed at how vague our description is,' said the family member.

From the horses mouth...why did they not return to Portugal for the reconstruction?

Drogheda Independent article (http://www.drogheda-independent.ie/frontpage/drogheda-family-hit-out-over-madeleine-case-clue-coverage-1060695.html)



[url=http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html]The Smith's sighting (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html[The Smith's sighting[/url)
-----------------------

Sighting took place on a street near to "LUZdoc", in the general direction of the beach away from apartment 5a...

On Gerry's own version of events it was not long after 10 O'clock that he went out looking for Maddie in the streets...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 04:40:PM
I think the Smith sighting at around 10pm, is more significant and reliable than the earlier Jane Tanner sighting, which I believe was concocted with a view to diverting attention away from the truth about what actually took place...

The Met. need to take a very close look at Jane Tanner, and her partner, and what they got up to that evening? Their movements between the tapas bar and the apartment block where Maddie was tucked up in bed, needs to be scrutinized very closely...

And the movements of Russell O'Brien, in particular...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:01:PM
It would take about 6 / 7 minutes to walk directly down to the beach from apartment 5a, and about 10 minutes if someone walked the route to where the Smith Contingent saw the man carrying off the child believed to have been Maddie...

A footpath to the beach in that general direction gave access to the second horizontal drain, where Maddie's body could have been originally and temporarily concealed, close to where small fishing boats are moored up at night...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:03:PM
Derelict building and its grounds and the church, are only a short way from this second horizontal drain...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:08:PM
There were three access points to get into the derelict building and its grounds:-

(1) through front door which was locked, so someone would need a key to get in by this route

(2) through small gate at front side of building

(3) Over wall adjacent to pub, at rear of premises...

Use of hire car parked in street outside derelict building would be the perfect foil for anyone wanting to move the body or its remains or items (used in the movement of the body) to or from the building...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 21, 2011, 05:10:PM
It wasn't Gerry McCann and nobody identified him carrying any child that night.  If what the Smiths are saying is gospel and I for one believe them, they witnessed an abductor carrying Maddy to a car that night and to a clean get-away since the Portuguese cops failed to put a proper extended search perimeter in place.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:11:PM
A coastal footpath runs from the location of the second horizontal drain near the small fishing boats, to the concrete steps and footpath at the side of the pub and access to the grounds of the derelict building - which could have been used when Maddie's body was transferred to its last resting place...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:13:PM
It wasn't Gerry McCann and nobody identified him carrying any child that night.  If what the smiths are saying is gospel and I for one believe them, they witnesses an abductor carrying Maddy to a car and a get away.
-------------

I think the Smith sighting is the closest anybody is going to get to the truth out of the current information available, the Met. might uncover more information...

Why would any would be abductor carry Maddie all that way to put her in a car and risk being spotted along the route he took from apartment 5a? He would surely have had a car closer to the place were the abduction was to take place, not on the other side of town...

In my opinion...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 21, 2011, 05:16:PM
Maybe he didn't want his car to be seen.   ::)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 05:55:PM
Maybe he didn't want his car to be seen.   ::)
-------------------

Gerry McCann and the other members of the tapas group did not have a car at that time...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 21, 2011, 05:58:PM
We are discussing the abductor, not Gerry McCann!  The abductor would have had his car parked nearby just in case someone like the Smith's would have thought to take his registration number.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 06:07:PM
We are discussing the abductor, not Gerry McCann!  The abductor would have had his car parked nearby just in case someone like the Smith's would have thought to take his registration number.

John, have you read Amaral's book, 'Truth of the Lie'?  The link is on this thread.  Obviously I know your standpoint... but I wondered if you had already considered Amaral's arguments in coming to your standpoint.  He comes across as no fool and he has the policing  / investigative experience from the portugese perspective.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 06:12:PM
We are discussing the abductor, not Gerry McCann!  The abductor would have had his car parked nearby just in case someone like the Smith's would have thought to take his registration number.
----------------

If there was an abductor it was one of the tapas group...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 21, 2011, 06:29:PM
Does anyone believe that Murat actually had any involvement? Him and his (dutch I think) friend? There was alot of communication between them that evening,and Murats rubbernecking was odd.I always wondered about a link between Murat and Russell OBrien (one of the tapas group).And Russell was not at the tapas restuarant that evening as his child was apparantly sick? Probably way off here arnt I?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 06:31:PM
Lets look at the sightings of Jane Tanner and the Smith Contingent - none of them saw any would be abductor wearing any gloves, no fingerprints or unidentified DNA was ever found at or in apartment 5a, in particular in the vicinity of the bedroom window, with the metal shutter that could not be opened from the outside (contrary to what the McCanns claim)...

So...

we have a would be abductor who does not wear any gloves, and he leaves no fingerprints anywhere at the scene from where Maddie vanished off the face of the earth?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 21, 2011, 06:34:PM
Was the cuddle cat ever forensically tested do you know? Because the McCanns say that the abductor took the toy from Maddie and placed it on a shelf.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 21, 2011, 06:46:PM
I really dont know what to make of this case!

On one hand i think the Mcanns and their friends know much more than they are letting on!

On the other hand if they are involved why Push for a case review where evidence could possibly be found high lighting their involvement.

My initial thoughts wheni heard about this case was that she had been harmed accidently and they have covered up but surely someone would have cracked under pressure by now.

Kate mcann looks tortured no doubt about it but is it guilt over leaving maddy that night or guilt over something else.

Regardless that whole group behaved badly leaving their kids like they did.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 21, 2011, 06:46:PM
Did Jane Tanner Lie?

(1) http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t286-jane-tanner-liar
(2) http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1888-the-day-when-jane-tanner-sobbed-and-told-all-to-the-sun

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 21, 2011, 07:16:PM
Tried looking for a link to the book the detective wrote but cant find one!!

Can anybody point me in the right direction please??
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 21, 2011, 09:11:PM
Tried looking for a link to the book the detective wrote but cant find one!!

Can anybody point me in the right direction please??

This is it:

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 21, 2011, 10:12:PM
No trace or evidence of an abductor.

Claims that the window shutter was somehow forced open are false.

Police in Portugal never bite on the abduction line at the time or since.

Maddie may have left the apartment of her own accord.

She was known for her sleepwalking back home.

Maddie was most likely sedated with the sleepwalking in mind.

******* useless parenting.

******* stupid people, Gerry in particular.

I would be looking at the inner circle of the 'Tapas 9' before anyone or anything else.

Last person or persons to see the little girl alive?

Who knows?

Maybe O'Brien.

Maybe Tanner.

I think Maddie died that night and possibly in 5a.

Her body is nearby or in the sea.

The local refuse was dumped at sea at around 3am - I had all this checked out at the time.

British police did not believe in the abduction either, hence the dogs etc.

Kate McCann used medical terminology at the time that indicated death.

The priest would have confirmed this but went awol.

Accidental death and hiding the body ticked most boxes in Portugal and the UK.

It still does.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 21, 2011, 10:38:PM
if the McCann were hiding her body would they of alerted the police to the fact she was missing.

they would have to be mad to do that.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 22, 2011, 02:12:AM
Most logical nuggy, it would have served their purpose to have waited until the morning and then pretended to have found her cot empty then.

+1 missy
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 22, 2011, 11:21:AM
Am in the process of reading Kates book. Was a little shocked to learn that Gerry managed to get some sleep in the early hours of Maddies disappearance.I would have thought that the adrenalin would be enough to keep anyone from sleeping?Just dont think that I could have sat in the apartment full stop.Id have been searching all through the night.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 22, 2011, 04:56:PM
Tried looking for a link to the book the detective wrote but cant find one!!

Can anybody point me in the right direction please??

This is it:

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/

Thankyou!!

Just reading it now!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 22, 2011, 06:36:PM
if the McCann were hiding her body would they of alerted the police to the fact she was missing.

they would have to be mad to do that.
---------------------

unless they were sure that the body was so well concealed elsewhere that they were confident the police would not find it, or associate it to them in the early stages...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 22, 2011, 08:56:PM
In Kates book,she is sticking with her story that the abductor must have exited through the window as it was wide open and the shutters were up.Now Im really confused,because I thought that this was found not to be the case after-all? The McCanns are adamant that someone may have been watching the apartment prior to Maddies disappearance,watching the McCanns comings and goings to ascertain thier routine.Surely then,the abductor would know that they were using the patio door and not locking it behind them? Why then would you use a window as an escape route,when there was the choice of two doors as exits?Is there a clear photograph of the childrens bedroom window avaliable? I would have imagined that it would be very hard to exit a window with a sleeping child in your arms?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 22, 2011, 09:12:PM
I would believe Kate McCann every time, her commitment to her lost daughter is heart-warming.

Anyone who thinks that the McCanns could have moved a body or achieved anything else suspicious under the noses of the world's media are somewhat deluded...conspiracy theories are like chaff...they blow away in the wind after a while and all we are left with is the truth.

Someone posted yesterday that Gerry McCann was seen by the Smith family carrying a child down the street on the night that Maddie disappeared...what a load of tosh...I think the Smith family know what they saw and it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 22, 2011, 09:21:PM
this is a strange experience for me john for once i am in complete agreement with you.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 22, 2011, 09:24:PM
this is a strange experience for me john for once i am in complete agreement with you.

You are cheating nuggy, I told you that first yesterday!  A strange feeling isn't it?   ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 22, 2011, 09:52:PM
I would believe Kate McCann every time, her commitment to her lost daughter is heart-warming.

Anyone who thinks that the McCanns could have moved a body or achieved anything else suspicious under the noses of the world's media are somewhat deluded...conspiracy theories are like chaff...they blow away in the wind after a while and all we are left with is the truth.

Someone posted yesterday that Gerry McCann was seen by the Smith family carrying a child down the street on the night that Maddie disappeared...what a load of tosh...I think the Smith family know what they saw and it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann!
----------------------

The McCann story about the shutters at the bedroom window being forced open from the outside is hogwash - it would have been impossible for anyone to open the steel shutter from outside the bedroom window of apartment 5a as claimed by them, they are liars. You have to be inside the bedroom and operate a strap on the right hand side of the window in order to operate the steel shutter to go up or down...

Nobody has been able to raise the steel shutter at that bedroom window from the outside, since the time of Maddie's alleged abduction, so how could any would be abductor have do so on the night in question?

Why don't the McCanns go back and do a reconstruction that is filmed to show how Gerry McCann allegedly was able to raise that steel shutter at that bedroom window from outside as he claimed he did on the night of the purported disappearance of his daughter?



Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 22, 2011, 10:00:PM
I would believe Kate McCann every time, her commitment to her lost daughter is heart-warming.

Anyone who thinks that the McCanns could have moved a body or achieved anything else suspicious under the noses of the world's media are somewhat deluded...conspiracy theories are like chaff...they blow away in the wind after a while and all we are left with is the truth.

Someone posted yesterday that Gerry McCann was seen by the Smith family carrying a child down the street on the night that Maddie disappeared...what a load of tosh...I think the Smith family know what they saw and it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann!
----------------------

The McCann story about the shutters at the bedroom window being forced open from the outside is hogwash - it would have been impossible for anyone to open the steel shutter from outside the bedroom window of apartment 5a as claimed by them, they are liars. You have to be inside the bedroom and operate a strap on the right hand side of the window in order to operate the steel shutter to go up or down...

Nobody has been able to raise the steel shutter at that bedroom window from the outside, since the time of Maddie's alleged abduction, so how could any would be abductor have do so on the night in question?

Why don't the McCanns go back and do a reconstruction that is filmed to show how Gerry McCann allegedly was able to raise that steel shutter at that bedroom window from outside as he claimed he did on the night of the purported disappearance of his daughter?

Not at all Mike, I have the very same shutters on my villa in Spain and as long as the two horizontal safety snibs are deployed at the bottom they can be lifted up from the outside or the inside without using the strap.

There is absolutely nothing to stop the shutters being lifted from the outside when the locks are not deployed. Anyone who knows about such things will also know that the snibs are seldom used leading to corrosion making them difficult to use if anyone were ever to try.

Apparently whoever tried to lift them didn't know much about their operation.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 22, 2011, 11:18:PM
I would believe Kate McCann every time, her commitment to her lost daughter is heart-warming.

Anyone who thinks that the McCanns could have moved a body or achieved anything else suspicious under the noses of the world's media are somewhat deluded...conspiracy theories are like chaff...they blow away in the wind after a while and all we are left with is the truth.

Someone posted yesterday that Gerry McCann was seen by the Smith family carrying a child down the street on the night that Maddie disappeared...what a load of tosh...I think the Smith family know what they saw and it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann!
----------------------

The McCann story about the shutters at the bedroom window being forced open from the outside is hogwash - it would have been impossible for anyone to open the steel shutter from outside the bedroom window of apartment 5a as claimed by them, they are liars. You have to be inside the bedroom and operate a strap on the right hand side of the window in order to operate the steel shutter to go up or down...

Nobody has been able to raise the steel shutter at that bedroom window from the outside, since the time of Maddie's alleged abduction, so how could any would be abductor have do so on the night in question?

Why don't the McCanns go back and do a reconstruction that is filmed to show how Gerry McCann allegedly was able to raise that steel shutter at that bedroom window from outside as he claimed he did on the night of the purported disappearance of his daughter?

Not at all Mike, I have the very same shutters on my villa in Spain and as long as the two horizontal safety snibs are deployed at the bottom they can be lifted up from the outside or the inside without using the strap.

There is absolutely nothing to stop the shutters being lifted from the outside when the locks are not deployed. Anyone who knows about such things will also know that the snibs are seldom used leading to corrosion making them difficult to use if anyone were ever to try.

Apparently whoever tried to lift them didn't know much about their operation.
--------------------------

no such locks exist on the shutters in apartment 5a, I visited the same apartment blocks in PDL and took photographs showing the mechanism which operated the steel shutter at the window of apartment 5a, there is no such devices that you speak about, you are obviously seriously mistaken about them being the same shutters you speak about...

I will post my photographs some time tomorrow, to put your mind at rest...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: John on May 22, 2011, 11:27:PM
no such locks exist on the shutters in apartment 5a, I visited the same apartment blocks in PDL and took photographs showing the mechanism which operated the steel shutter at the window of apartment 5a, there is no such devices that you speak about, you are obviously seriously mistaken about them being the same shutters you speak about...

I will post my photographs some time tomorrow, to put your mind at rest...

That will be interesting as they are a standard feature on such shutters.

The bars are fitted on the bottom of the shutter, one on each side and fit into holes drilled in the vertical U-section in which the shutters run. A simple but effective locking mechanism.

When the windows are open the shutters can be closed but set in such a way that plenty of air can still enter the room whilst maintaining security.  The McCann's possibly didn't see the locking device which does not surprise me.

(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/423263083/roller_shutter.jpg)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 09:28:AM
no such locks exist on the shutters in apartment 5a, I visited the same apartment blocks in PDL and took photographs showing the mechanism which operated the steel shutter at the window of apartment 5a, there is no such devices that you speak about, you are obviously seriously mistaken about them being the same shutters you speak about...

I will post my photographs some time tomorrow, to put your mind at rest...

That will be interesting as they are a standard feature on such shutters.

The bars are fitted on the bottom of the shutter, one on each side and fit into holes drilled in the vertical U-section in which the shutters run. A simple but effective locking mechanism.

When the windows are open the shutters can be closed but set in such a way that plenty of air can still enter the room whilst maintaining security.  The McCann's possibly didn't see the locking device which does not surprise me.

(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/423263083/roller_shutter.jpg)
... Device for deactivating window shutter at 5a, is located on right hand side of window, inside bedroom, and cannot be operated by anyone outside the room - since, the strap which deactivates the security device on the steel window shutter of 5a, needs to be pulled diagonally away from the vertical face of the bedroom wall and pulled downwards in order to raise the shutter on the outside of the window, a feat which cannot be achieved by someone standing outside the room on the other side of the closed shutter. According to the McCanns the bedroom window, curtains, and the steel shutter was closed, when they left 5a to go galavanting off to the tapas bar - the window shutter was also still noted to be in the closed position by Russel O'Brien when at just before 9 O'clock he claims to have put his ear to the bedroom steel shutter of 5a, en route to the tapas bar. In addition, Gerry McCann checked 5a at about 9.05pm, and according to him everything was still in order by that stage - the window, curtains and window shutter were all still closed by that stage. It must follow, that someone opened the curtain, window and the shutter, at sometime after Gerry left 5a at about 9.05pm (if McCanns genuinely had nothing to do with the disappearance of Maddie)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 23, 2011, 10:00:AM
left to go galavanting off to the tapas bar   ;D    that line tickled my sad sense of humour.
Is the photograph of the window in question,or just an identical one?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 02:07:PM
Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien and David Payne, movements between tapas bar and apartment block, will now come under intense scrutiny...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 02:31:PM
A boating accident which almost cost Russel O'Brien his life on the very evening that Maddie disappeared - could focus in the Met review of the case, since it led to some ill feeling later that evening between him and Gerry McCann over  game of tennis, and another matter, at about 9.0pm...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 02:59:PM
The ill feeling boiled over between the pair, after  O'Brien turned up at the tapas bar at about 9pm, proclaiming that all was well back at 5a - causing Gerry to storm off to the apartment to check it for hlmself...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 03:42:PM
How bizarre that Gerry should be so suspicious and wary of O'Brien at around 9pm, yet half an hour later, he was entrusting the safety and well-being of the McCann children, and telling him that the patio door was left unlocked, and access gained to 5a via it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 23, 2011, 03:53:PM
How bizarre that Gerry should be so suspicious and wary of O'Brien at around 9pm, yet half an hour later, he was entrusting the safety and well-being of the McCann children, and telling him that the patio door was left unlocked, and access gained to 5a via it?

Is O'Brien the bloke who has had allegations of innapropriate comments / conversation made against him in Amaral's book?  I will check this my self later on when I'm not at work.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 23, 2011, 03:59:PM
The Gerry McCann / Russell O'Brien thing is very interesting.

O'Brien had access to Maddie, did he not?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 23, 2011, 06:05:PM
the mcanns had the chioce of when to alert the athrotys.

if they had anything to do with it they would have delayed reporting it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 23, 2011, 06:20:PM
The entire case rests on what Jane Tanner said she saw.

If truthful, then maybe it was an abduction, or could she and O'Brien even have been involved somehow themselves?

Their witness statements just do not add up.

I still think this is very close to members of the Tapas 9.

Police never grilled them enough.



Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 23, 2011, 06:34:PM
I'm pretty sure its connected with a similar disappearance in Portugal

investigated by the same cops.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 23, 2011, 06:45:PM
How bizarre that Gerry should be so suspicious and wary of O'Brien at around 9pm, yet half an hour later, he was entrusting the safety and well-being of the McCann children, and telling him that the patio door was left unlocked, and access gained to 5a via it?

Is O'Brien the bloke who has had allegations of innapropriate comments / conversation made against him in Amaral's book?  I will check this my self later on when I'm not at work.

I believe that person was David Payne
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 23, 2011, 06:50:PM
How bizarre that Gerry should be so suspicious and wary of O'Brien at around 9pm, yet half an hour later, he was entrusting the safety and well-being of the McCann children, and telling him that the patio door was left unlocked, and access gained to 5a via it?

Is O'Brien the bloke who has had allegations of innapropriate comments / conversation made against him in Amaral's book?  I will check this my self later on when I'm not at work.

I believe that person was David Payne

Thankyou.  I put the link to the book on this thread for you, further up.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 23, 2011, 07:00:PM
How bizarre that Gerry should be so suspicious and wary of O'Brien at around 9pm, yet half an hour later, he was entrusting the safety and well-being of the McCann children, and telling him that the patio door was left unlocked, and access gained to 5a via it?

Is O'Brien the bloke who has had allegations of innapropriate comments / conversation made against him in Amaral's book?  I will check this my self later on when I'm not at work.

I believe that person was David Payne

Thankyou.  I put the link to the book on this thread for you, further up.


Ooh yes you did thankyou!! im part way through it! its very interesting!

The sniffer dog evidence is especially interesting! i think they are so clever! i have a spaniel he could sniff out a dog treat in an acre of land hes that keen with his nose!

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 07:40:PM
the mcanns had the chioce of when to alert the athrotys.

if they had anything to do with it they would have delayed reporting it.
---------------------------------

there would have come a point when they would have to report it, and that was at about 10pm, when Kate declared publicly to all those present at the tapas bar, that Maddie was gone, and that "they" had taken Maddie...

at about 10pm was as good a time as any to break the news whilst the parents were allegedly out dining at the tapas bar...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 23, 2011, 07:45:PM
Agreed had they left it till morning to report it then it would have looked more suspicious
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 07:53:PM
Roadside door of apartment 5a, from where Maddie disappeared in 2007

I took this picture in 2010, whilst spending a week at the resort investigating this case:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 08:00:PM
Lets take a look around the outside of the apartment block to familiarize ourselves with the site:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 09:22:PM
The aforementioned photographs show views around the outside of the neighboring block of apartments from where Maddie went "Missing" in 2007, and the junction where Jane Tanner allegedly saw the man carrying off a child...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 23, 2011, 09:26:PM
Obviously we all have our own opinions on this case.I love to hear other peoples theories and do respect them.However,being a mum myself,I genuinely believe that Kate knows nothing.Am still undecided about Gerry.From almost day one,Russell and Jane played heavily on my mind.Both of them appear to have been active around the area of The McCanns apartment at the crucial time.I believe their own apartment was only next door but one?I have always had this nagging gut feeling that OBrien and Tanner handed Maddie over to someone.I think that Tanners supposed sighting was dreamt up to focus the investigation away from the tapas group.I really do believe that OBrien is at the root of it all.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 23, 2011, 09:35:PM
Obviously we all have our own opinions on this case.I love to hear other peoples theories and do respect them.However,being a mum myself,I genuinely believe that Kate knows nothing.Am still undecided about Gerry.From almost day one,Russell and Jane played heavily on my mind.Both of them appear to have been active around the area of The McCanns apartment at the crucial time.I believe their own apartment was only next door but one?I have always had this nagging gut feeling that OBrien and Tanner handed Maddie over to someone.I think that Tanners supposed sighting was dreamt up to focus the investigation away from the tapas group.I really do believe that OBrien is at the root of it all.
---------------------

I took photographs of all their apartment doors, next to each other, and all around the block where the McCanns and the friends were staying which will be subject of my next posting of photographs, shortly...

If you take the McCanns out of the equation altogether - it leaves Tanner, O'Brien. Mathew Oldfield and Payne as the most likeliest of suspects...

Not to be overlooked is that in the days leading up to Maddie's disappearance, O'Brien was spending more and more time jogging around the resort with Gerry's wife, Kate - and his partner, Tanner may have  been getting distressed about how close this relationship was developing. Precisely why O'Brien chose to try to get close to Kate, may have been a contributing factor in why Maddie went missing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Alias on May 23, 2011, 10:08:PM
First of all, welcome back, Mike. Hope you had a great trip to Turkey!  :)

I don't know too much about the McCann case. It has been in the media here, of course, but not nearly as much as in England I think I can safely conclude.
However, the McCann couple was on the NEWS (TV) here yesterday announcing their book. They really get a lot of exposure. Sadly there are so many other missing children and few of them receive nearly the amount of attention as Madeleine McCann.
The parents are very media savvy! I have to say that I was put off by something I read somewhere (don't remember where - just that it was on the internet). It was a kind of diary that Gerry was publishing, I think day by day while he and his wife were travelling Europe to gather attention to the case. His tone to me was almost offensive, as if he was basking in the limelight, enjoying the attention. Just felt it was off.

I hope Maddie will be found soon. Whether it be dead or alive. Personally I think she is dead. Everyone needs to move on - I can't imagine what all this is doing to the little twins.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 23, 2011, 10:20:PM
Mike, your knowledge on this case is fascinating.I do really think that I may have read the McCanns wrong though.I have trouble with the idea that they would keep pushing authorites to help find Maddie if they were responsible for her disappearance.They have welcomed the Met inquiry with relief and gratefulness.We are very much in agreement regarding the other tapas friends though.Alarm bells started ringing for me when I first heard about OBriens child alledgedly being sick and he was said to have bathed her and washed the sheets.Jane told that the child had been off colour for a couple of days.Who on earth would leave a sick child alone in an apartment?What if the child had choked on her own vomit?I believe that Maddie was smuggled out wrapped in the sheet that OBrien then had to wash to remove the forensic evidence,and handed over to someone.I hope the Met dig deep regarding OBrien.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 23, 2011, 10:24:PM
i would of thought they take a much lower profile if they had something to hide.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 23, 2011, 11:38:PM
Im inclined to think you may be right! More happened that night than we are led to believe!

Just not sure of the mcanns involvement!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 04:38:AM
Why would members of the tapas group need to be colluding over the times they checked the rooms, before they contacted the police about Maddies disappearance that night?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 24, 2011, 09:09:AM
Matthew got very distressed during the portugese police interviews.Gerry heard him screaming,shouting and crying and found out later it was because the police were accusing him of handing Maddie out of the window to someone,when he did the 9.30pm check.I believe the police were very near the mark there.But am not overly convinced that they accused the right person.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 24, 2011, 10:33:AM
Hi to everyone..

I came across this site looking for more info on this case as I believed or more like hoped this case would have came to the ending that we all prayed for, Maddies safe return. I feel now that I am ready to say that the poor girl is now dead and so I need some form of reasoning for myself.

I have seen much made of the demeanour of the McCanns post Maddies disappearance and as I have never been able to satisfy myself with their behavior some of what has been put forward on here is very interesting.
The thing is though that this behavior i.e Gerry's laughing on the porch the day after and such is harder to explain in both regards when we take into account he is either a father clinging onto hope that his daughter has vanished but may still be found, or he was an accomplice or aide in the death,disposal and interment of the remains. To the former I feel this behavior maybe reasoned with but to the later I feel way too much pressure to act this way when at any moment someone could verify that they had saw Gerry with Maddie at an important time that night.

Quote
.I do really think that I may have read the McCanns wrong though.I have trouble with the idea that they would keep pushing authorities to help find Maddie if they were responsible for her disappearance.They have welcomed the Met inquiry with relief and gratefulness

I can't help feeling that the only people culpable at this stage are Gerry & Kate and the fact that the longer they keep this case in the public eye the longer they have immunity from the repercussions of their actions that night. The extensive lobbying of the Government keeps up the political and diplomatic pressure on the PJ and again allows them freedom from prosecution. The longer they are seen to be searching for Maddie the more chance the UK and European people will see it as their own form of redemption for what they did, so I really feel this searching for Maddie will continue until her remains are found, then question have to be asked.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 24, 2011, 12:27:PM
Hi Jason,so you feel that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of their daughter?Both of them or just Gerry? What do you feel happened,they overdosed Maddie with sedative theory?Even Kate has admitted that she believes Maddie was drugged.But by whom I wonder?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 24, 2011, 02:40:PM
Quote
Hi Jason,so you feel that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of their daughter?Both of them or just Gerry? What do you feel happened,they overdosed Maddie with sedative theory?Even Kate has admitted that she believes Maddie was drugged.But by whom I wonder?

Thx Tyler..

The possibilities are numerous but until more is effectively known about Gerry and Kate then its hard to pinpoint whether one or both can be considered to have been part of it.
I believe the medical notes relating to the pair were never forwarded to the PJ and the insight they might have created is great, did Kate suffer post natal depression?, did she cope with 3 young kids?(we know she felt Maddie was a handful) could Gerry have acted alone in the sedation plot due to his wife's inability to cope? The two younger twins did not wake up during the commotion that evening were they sedated?
It seems way too much diplomatic pressure was brought to bare on the PJ that so many questions were just not asked and too many lines of enquiry faltered because of it.

There is however no way that Gerry himself could of commit ed any act and got to this point without the help of almost all those in that party at some point, were they doing it through design or through their loyalty to a friend, did they feel that something sinister had happened or were they innocent by dumb association!!

I have to continue reading whats available to answer these question myself but its nice to know others feel the same.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 24, 2011, 03:01:PM
 I have looked at Tanners statements about seeing a man carrying a child...and using statement analysis I have no doubts at all that her claims to see a man possibly abducting Maddie are fabricated.
I do not think it is a mental health issue of hers leading her to fabricate this bit of false evidence so conclude she is party to covering up a criminal act.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 24, 2011, 04:54:PM
Hi Smiffy..

I agree Tanners descriptions were so varied in his height,clothing,and hair style/colour that they were no use at all to the PJ, If we do take the fact the the Smith families statements do outline the fact that a man existed if you believe their feeling later on in that it was Gerry they had seen then what Tanner may well have been describing was Gerry himself.

I must admit personally that the Smiths statements are probably one of the main reasons why I now feel Maddie is dead as I take them to be diligent and credible witnesses who having never been properly followed up, it angers me a fair degree.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 24, 2011, 05:12:PM
its funny the mcanns weren't considered suspects until they started slagging off the police.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 24, 2011, 05:29:PM
its funny the mcanns weren't considered suspects until they started slagging off the police.

I don't think this is so, the McCanns were in the frame from the moment the PJ arrived.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 24, 2011, 05:32:PM
that could be well be true.

but they became named suspects after they started running down the police.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 06:28:PM
Photographs of strap device for steel window shutters of apartment 5a:-

Here is a photographic record of exactly how the steel shutter at the bedroom window where Maddie normally slept can be operated from a closed position (with shutter in down position) to an open position (with shutter up) and back down again (with shutter back in down position):-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 06:45:PM
Security device is activated / deactivated on mechanism trapping and releasing strap to open and close steel shutter on outside of closed window (accordingly)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 06:54:PM
A similar device is located at the top right hand side of the window, so that when the strap is flush with the vertical wall, the steel shutter on the outside of the bedroom window cannot be raised because the strap is immobilized (top and bottom), and can only be raised in the event that someone on the inside of the bedroom operates the strap as shown by pulling it away from the face of the bedroom wall and pulling in a downward fashion, which in turn will start to raise the steel shutter on the outside of the bedroom window...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 06:58:PM
The way this security device on this window operates, prevents the account given by Kate and Gerry McCann, that they gave to the police, about immediately discovering Maddie had been taken, and was missing (once everyone returned to apartment 5a from the tapas bar) Gerry rushing outside to open the steel shutter from the outside, and succeeding, being true - but rather that it was inaccurate and misleading, and helps to focus everyones attention on a made up account about what allegedly occurred back at 5a, once the disappearance of Maddie was discovered...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 07:02:PM
Security device on windows to prevent anyone opening them from outside the bedroom window without leaving any jemmy marks where the window would have had to be forced open:-

Anyone wishing to force open the window of the bedroom of apartment 5a, would have needed tio use some sort of tool to jemmy open the window from its surrounding frame - no such marks were found or existed at all on the outside of the window or its surround - which tells its own story (window was not forced open by anyone outside the bedroom window)...

Security device on windows has two settings (1) up, and (2) down...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 07:24:PM
Security devices on both the steel shutter, and the window, make it virtually impossible for anyone to have forced open either without leaving some sort of physical trace that the windows or the steel shutter were jemmied open:-

The only way the bedroom window of apartment 5a was opened was by someone inside the bedroom, not outside - similarly, nobody could have forced the steel shutter up from outside the bedroom window without operating the security strap on the right had side of the window, inside the bedroom...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 24, 2011, 08:23:PM
Suggestion that Maddie was abducted through the bedroom window and steel shutter by a complete stranger, seems out of the question, in my opinion - window issue is nothing but a red herring...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 24, 2011, 10:39:PM
Suggestion that Maddie was abducted through the bedroom window and steel shutter by a complete stranger, seems out of the question, in my opinion - window issue is nothing but a red herring...

John isn't on hand with his technical expertise to argue the case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 24, 2011, 10:56:PM
My understanding of the shutter saga is that two people acted together, one of whom was inside the apartment and opened the shutter from there - passing Maddie ( dead or alive? ) to an accomplice outside.

Either that or Gerry is making the whole thing up.

I seem to recall that the PJ dogs did pick up the scent of Maddie in the early searches but that the trail ended at the nearby supermarket.

There may have been two reasons for this.

Firstly that she was put into a car, and secondly - and backed up by a witness report, that she may have been dumped in a refuse container that was due to be dumped in the ocean around 3am.

The PJ never found any rogue dna or fingerprints and so they were always focused on the members of the Tapas 9.

Kate's 'they've taken her' outburst put her straight in the frame.

If there was an abductor or abductors, I just cannot fathom why they would go the shutter route from the outside - especially as this would likely cause enough noise to put them at risk.

If there was an abduction I do not believe in the international gang theory, I would go for a local, very local at that.




Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 11:03:AM
The following seals it for me - according to the McCanns, nobody knew they left the patio door on the poolside of the apartment open, until about 9.30pm, when Kate told Mathew Oldfield and Russell O'Brien that they would not need the key to apartment 5a, because they had left the patio door open.,
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 11:15:AM
There was no evidence of a forced entry - anyone responsible for removing Maddie from 5a, did so by entering via the open patio door...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 11:32:AM
Since, there was only a 30 minute period, between when it became common knowledge that the patio door to 5a had been left open - the person, or persons who took Maddie from her bed, were privy to such information. The chances of a stranger discovering that the patio door was left open, within the half hour period that some members of the tapas group found out from Kate, is too large a leap of faith to believe such a coincidence occurred...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 11:50:AM
Although, only Oldfield and O'BRIEN initially knew the patio door had been left open, it would seem possible, that they told other members about it, once they got back to the tapas bar. There were only four members of the group who had the knowlege that the patio door had been left open, and who left the tapas bar, to go back to the apartments, these were - (1) Mathew Oldfield, (2) Russel O'Brien, (3) David Payne, and  (4) Jane Tanner...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 12:06:PM
Of these four, Oldfield left the tapas bar at 9.30m with O'Brien, and returned by himself at about 9.35pm, leaving O'Brien back at his apartment tending his sick child, and he did not return to bar until just before Kate left to check 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 02:38:PM
Jane Tanner was not at the tapas bar when Kate left to go and discover 'they' had taken Maddie...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:19:PM
Photograph links:-

(1) http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P.D.L.htm
(2) http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Mike_Teskowski.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:26:PM
View looking back in direction of church / derelict building and Pub, from region of second horizontal drain, on coastline track

It is believed that those responsible for "Maddies disappearance", used this track under the cover of darkness, to move the child's remains into the grounds of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL - this track gave access to a set of concrete steps at the side of the pub, and a small veranda, with a low wall that afforded access into the grounds at the back of the derelict building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:34:PM
View from grounds at the back of the derelict building, of the church clock tower - Evidence relating to "Maddies disappearance" is believed to be buried in the grounds of this derelict building

Police have never properly searched the grounds of this derelict building, as part of the search to find and locate Maddie...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:38:PM
Patio terrace at side of pub, with low wall that gives access to back garden of derelict building

Patio terrace at side of The Bull pub, PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:46:PM
Car hire shop, shown next door to derelict building

The hire car would not have looked out of place, parked up in the street outside the hire shop (Europcar) and adjacent to the derelict building opposite the church which was a favorite haunt of the McCann parents, when used to help remove remains / clothing and equipment to and from grounds of derelict building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:49:PM
Just around the corner from the car hire shop, was THE BULL PUB, and access to the set of concrete steps and the patio terrace with low wall leading into rear garden of derelict building...

Kelly's bar, is not too far away - the place where the Smith family contingent were drinking that evening, when Maddie went missing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 09:54:PM
Location of the second horizontal drain, situated close to where small fishing boats are moored up each night

If you were stood facing and looking at this second horizontal drain, amongst the reeds, "Kelly's Bar" would be off to the right in that sort of general direction...

Some stones that can be seen stacked up making a make shift wall near to the second horizontal drain, were carried into the grounds of the derelict building and placed upon, around or close to an area of disturbed ground, in a hollow in the rear garden of the derelict building. Some of these stones could have been carried in the boot of the hire car, or by hand, or in a holdall belonging to the person(s) responsible for Maddies disappearance...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 25, 2011, 10:08:PM
Whoever dug the ground here, and buried something, chose to mark the area by placing stones which had been displaced from further along the coastline in the area of the second horizontal drain...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 25, 2011, 10:09:PM
Mike a bit off topic but whats the local opinion in PDL? Do they think the group where involved!??

Also has tourism suffered because of all the media surrounding the case?

It looks a lovely place but i dont think i would visit their now!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 26, 2011, 12:25:AM
I don't think that anyone could deny the palpable agony of Kate McCann. She is so fragile. Gerry seems to be different, stronger, more pragmatic. The one thing I've always struggled with, from very early on, is why Maddie's "cuddle cat" was washed. Kate carried it everywhere for a while, understandably, and apparently it became "grubby," but, from a mum's point of view, if that was the last link to my daughter, I would have sealed it in a bag, to keep Maddie's scent on it. For myself. I suppose that we all react in different ways.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 05:07:AM
Were the checks made by Gerry (9.0pm) and Kate (10pm) reactionary, due to percieved behavior of other group members? Was this what caused Kate to rush back to the tapas bar screaming - 'they've taken her'?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 26, 2011, 09:49:AM
Mike,are you maybe having second thoughts about the McCanns involvement? I am hoping and imagine that the MET will dig deeper into the following -: Jane Tanners insistance that she passed Gerry and Jez on that narrow path and yet the two men are adamant that she did not.If she did not,then that makes her alleged sighting of the man carrying the child a lie.How could Tanner walk right past the supposedly open window of apartment 5a,and not notice it?A witness saw Tanner loitering opposite apartment 5a at around 9pm,looking over toward the apartment.Also am wondering about Murat.Three of the tapas friends witnessed Murat outside apartment 4a after Maddie was discovered missing.Murat is adamant that he wasnt there,was at home with his mother.Who is lying? The 3 tapas friends OR Murat? Am starting to wonder about a link between Tanner and Murat.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 01:00:PM
I am inclined to suspect/believe, that any purported sightings of Robert Murat in and around the apartment block from where Maddie disappeared, were in fact sightings of David Payne, who I believe is David Paynes, doppleganger, and vice versa...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 03:22:PM
I also believe that those responsible for taking Maddie from apartment 5a, had some sort of communication device, which could have been used to monitor the parents whilst they were at the tapas bar - such a device could have included the use of baby monitoring equipment...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 26, 2011, 06:10:PM
Im open minded about all this but WHY would the Mcanns friends want to do something like that??

Its such an elaborate plot someone woudl have cracked by now!

I think the answer is somewhat simpler than some of the theories on here!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 06:28:PM
Mathew Oldfield gave different versions to Portuguese police about how he went about checking apartment 5a, when he went there at about 9:30pm - in his first account he claimed that he never went inside the apartment at all, merely that he stood outside the patio door and listened for noises from within...

In his next version he admitted going inside apartment 5a, and standing at the bedroom door behind where Maddie had last been sleeping in her bed as witnessed by both her parents at about 8:30pm, and later by Gerry McCann, at about 9:05pm...

Portuguese police are understood to have questioned him about the possibility that he handed out Maddie through the bedroom window, and shutter, on that occasion, something which he denied doing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 26, 2011, 07:16:PM
Looked at David Paynes statement..and  a few things stand out using statement analysis.
A main part of it that looks totally wrong is his claimed visit to the McCann appartment at 6.30pm..
There are so many problems with this that my view is that he did not visit at this time at all.
The main effect being that as he never went at 6.30pm or there abouts he could not have seen Kate or the children ...so effectively...other than the McCann's no one else see's Maddie after 5.30pm.

The other main area of lying ..is to do with the holiday organising and how the couples know each other and the relationships between them. This is a very sensitive area for him...and a number of the others in the group that I have so far had the chance to do statement analysis work on.  Tanner  and O'Brien both seem to have similar sensitivities in regards to the same issue.

The final issue is night time arrangements...David Payne ..brushes over who visited who's flat and steers clear of late night and early morning arrangements . He is being very evasive on these matters  in regards to the days before the Maddie event. It is a sensitive issue and may be related to similar sensitiviries in regards to the relationships within the group.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 07:55:PM
View of "Tapas bar" restaurant from the balcony of apartment 6 in next block to where Maddie disappeared from in May 2007:-

Tapas bar is shown to left in background...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 26, 2011, 07:56:PM
Ah the video clip from the panorama documentary....when Kate demonstrates the door slamming shut due to wind...as per her account of checking on the children about 10.00pm.

Well I watched that and listened carefully to her words to do statement analysis...and
in my view she is lying her head off. The signs of deception here are very strong and heavy. In my view .. She is faking in the claim and fabricating  and  though physically she went to the appartment about 10.00pm it was not  then that she found Maddie was not there. It is my view that she knew well before that Maddie was not there as something had happened to her much earlier and that her actions about 10.00pm were a charade.
Her words betray her!!!!

Basically  ..as she gives her account on video...she cant deny it or claim they were someone else's words or the transcript is wrong. Caught...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 08:02:PM
Ah the video clip from the panorama documentary....when Kate demonstrates the door slamming shut due to wind...as per her account of checking on the children about 10.00pm.

Well I watched that and listened carefully to her words to do statement analysis...and
in my view she is lying her head off. The signs of deception here are very strong and heavy. In my view .. She is faking in the claim and fabricating  and  though physically she went to the appartment about 10.00pm it was not  then that she found Maddie was not there. It is my view that she knew well before that Maddie was not there as something had happened to her much earlier and that her actions about 10.00pm were a charade.
Her words betray her!!!!

Basically  ..as she gives her account on video...she cant deny it or claim they were someone else's words or the transcript is wrong. Caught...
-----------------

Curtains at bedroom window would have been sucked out, and the bedroom door slammed shut, as soon as Kate entered the apartment at about 10pm, but according to her, the bedroom door was ajar, which she reset and at that stage the bedroom door slammed shut, and upon opening the bedroom door again, she saw the curtains had blown open, exposing the open window and the raised steel shutter...

Only way this could have happened was if someone else entered the apartment, or left via one of the closed doors - creating a vacuum, yet according to Kate, there was no-one else there at 5a, when she went back there to discover Maddie gone, and no-one arrived there before she went to the tapas bar to raise the general alarm...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 08:06:PM
Yours truly, outside St Vincents church in PDL, June 2010

Closing in on the truth...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 08:10:PM
View of apartment 5a from outside door of apartment 6 in next block:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 26, 2011, 08:16:PM
Apartment 6, where I stayed during my week long visit to Portugal in June 2010
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 26, 2011, 10:10:PM
Looked at David Paynes statement..and  a few things stand out using statement analysis.
A main part of it that looks totally wrong is his claimed visit to the McCann appartment at 6.30pm..
There are so many problems with this that my view is that he did not visit at this time at all.
The main effect being that as he never went at 6.30pm or there abouts he could not have seen Kate or the children ...so effectively...other than the McCann's no one else see's Maddie after 5.30pm.

The other main area of lying ..is to do with the holiday organising and how the couples know each other and the relationships between them. This is a very sensitive area for him...and a number of the others in the group that I have so far had the chance to do statement analysis work on.  Tanner  and O'Brien both seem to have similar sensitivities in regards to the same issue.

The final issue is night time arrangements...David Payne ..brushes over who visited who's flat and steers clear of late night and early morning arrangements . He is being very evasive on these matters  in regards to the days before the Maddie event. It is a sensitive issue and may be related to similar sensitiviries in regards to the relationships within the group.

Hi smiffy your take on things is very interesting as I felt also that the 7pm returning to the tennis court for David Payne was and may have been the only initial time that he had went there. I believe there was some argument between G McCann and Mr Payne regarding is inability to play tennis between 6-7 pm after the court had been booked.
The 6:30 meeting should have been a more "whats happening are you gonna play" type of thing had he went there at 6:30. This turned into a more casual(lets say pre determined) meeting about where Kate was?? why!!

The booking of the court from 6-7pm is in itself suspicious in regards to the routine the McCanns were in at that point, they normally bathed the children around this time and thats exactly what Kate was doing when D Payne turned up after 6:30. Is there anyway to find out at what time the court had been booked that day for 6-7pm?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 26, 2011, 11:11:PM
This case is becoming required reading on the forum.  Would be canny to get Amaral interested in the Bamber case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 27, 2011, 08:41:AM
Looked at David Paynes statement..and  a few things stand out using statement analysis.
A main part of it that looks totally wrong is his claimed visit to the McCann appartment at 6.30pm..
There are so many problems with this that my view is that he did not visit at this time at all.
The main effect being that as he never went at 6.30pm or there abouts he could not have seen Kate or the children ...so effectively...other than the McCann's no one else see's Maddie after 5.30pm.

The other main area of lying ..is to do with the holiday organising and how the couples know each other and the relationships between them. This is a very sensitive area for him...and a number of the others in the group that I have so far had the chance to do statement analysis work on.  Tanner  and O'Brien both seem to have similar sensitivities in regards to the same issue.

The final issue is night time arrangements...David Payne ..brushes over who visited who's flat and steers clear of late night and early morning arrangements . He is being very evasive on these matters  in regards to the days before the Maddie event. It is a sensitive issue and may be related to similar sensitiviries in regards to the relationships within the group.

Hi smiffy your take on things is very interesting as I felt also that the 7pm returning to the tennis court for David Payne was and may have been the only initial time that he had went there. I believe there was some argument between G McCann and Mr Payne regarding is inability to play tennis between 6-7 pm after the court had been booked.
The 6:30 meeting should have been a more "whats happening are you gonna play" type of thing had he went there at 6:30. This turned into a more casual(lets say pre determined) meeting about where Kate was?? why!!

The booking of the court from 6-7pm is in itself suspicious in regards to the routine the McCanns were in at that point, they normally bathed the children around this time and thats exactly what Kate was doing when D Payne turned up after 6:30. Is there anyway to find out at what time the court had been booked that day for 6-7pm?

basically..without revealing too much statement analysis wise;;or getting too long winded.

David Payne ...claims he went with 2 of the other males to the tennis court and met Gerry there...that is clear enough....DP then fails to commit to his exchange with Gerry...raising doubt he spoke with Gerry about Kate and the kids at all and about his reason for DP to check/call in on Kate.(my view no check up was spoken of).
The 3 men head off to their appartments together it seems...and later all 3 head back to the tennis courts after changing into suitable clothing.
DP fails to commit on whether he went to the McCans appartment before changing clothes or after....and also fails to commit to whether he entered by the door or the patio doors... he is supposed to be on his own here and uses the singular I for his claimed visit. The claimed content of his visit is dodgy...
However in his statement story...David speaks of leaving the McCann appartment and uses the word "we" when he should have used the word I. He was supposed to be on his own.  The liar slipped up in his fabricated story.
When DP gets back to the tennis court ..again he fails to commit to this part of the story in regards to his exchange with Gerry...which again strongly suggests ..DP never went and checked as per his claims and that his whole claimed visit to the McCann appartment is a fabrication  and that it may have been created to allow the claim that Maddie was alive and all ok at 6.30pm when it may not have been the case.

If I am correct then WHY LIE..and retrospectively create a claimed sighting of Maddie , Kate etc for 6.30pm by DP...it raises suspicion that something may have gone wrong in regards to Maddie about 6.30pm or before.

It is this time before 6.30pm that day that is my current interest and that I feel may hold the key to the mystery.

This is a great case for using statement analysis ..as so much is filmed or transcripted and available to go over and in some cases there is plenty of material to establish peoples baselines for speech useage.
The liars are open to be exposed and more of the truth revealed. I have seen enough in the statements to rule out any abductor and any wandering off by Maddie.

Gerry is keen to say...there is no evidence of Maddies death.
to which I remind him ...there is evidence that suggests Maddies death.

I would like to also remind him....there is no evidence of Maddie being adbucted.
and there is no evidence of Maddie having wandered off.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 27, 2011, 01:03:PM
looked at Mathew Oldfiels statement to Leicestershire Police.
applied statement analysis to it and not happy with a number of things.
The main fabrication that comes across is his claim to enter the McCanns appartment to check on the 3 children at approx 9.30pm. This part of the statement appears to be an entire fabrication and that in my view he never entered the appartment at all. He seems to have checked on his own appartment only.

It raises the issue that as to why he has made this up?  to cover that ...no proper checking was really taking place of the McCanns appartment and making people look responsible when they were not.
Within this fabrication he claims to see the two younger children in their cots...but not Maddie as her bed could not be viewed...so he partly commits .. but anyone could have done that knowing later on that the two younger children were not missing. In regards to Maddie...again ..he should have seen her if he was there..but he was not in my view. If you enter an appartment for the purpose of seeing 3 children are ok then you need to see them and not presume them to be present or the check has no value. Only a few seconds and a few steps forward would have provided a satisfactory check...and he claimed to be there for about 2 minutes.
Why make it all up...why not be truthful...something to hide?

other issues...
Oldfields account of the tennis and thus David Paynes claimed visit to Kate about 6.30pm...well Oldfields version of this undermines Davids' claim and supports my view that DP never visited Kate and the 3 kids as he claimed.

The nature of the relationships between the various couples in regards to their holiday arrangements etc is also an area of sensitivity and deception as seen with other members of the group.


Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 27, 2011, 01:13:PM
Smiffy, this statement analysis approach... purley out of interest... can you give any insight as to how you apply its principles etc?  Is it a known method that you have studied?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 27, 2011, 03:07:PM
Smiffy, this statement analysis approach... purley out of interest... can you give any insight as to how you apply its principles etc?  Is it a known method that you have studied?

I was going to ask the same!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 27, 2011, 04:32:PM
I must admit it also came to my mind how exactly statement analysis and its fundamentals from someone on line can be worked with and reasoned with. I suppose its unlike any other science in that its findings more or less show just what happens when common sense and relative thinking are applied in proportion to what people say. It is a science where so many things can be flawed similar to micro expressionism but then when you add that sense of reasoning it is easy to say YES that is right because that is what I take from what so and so say!

Its not hard to see that J Tanner has by all accounts acted as someone who has installed a belief in us of the abduction theory but more or less made her information useless to the outcome. She has by definition been a pawn in a game where the result is far away beyond our own reasoning. What she has done is lay the ground work for that abduction theory without actually incriminating anyone and things have snow balled from there.

It is my own feeling and my own hope that when/if the body of Maddie is discovered then the arrests of Gerry & Kate will take place and they will have to be accountable for the actions.

If we have someone able and willing to look at things from this perspective of analysing statements and if that analysis sits easy with us and we can relate to it then I for one thank smiffy for his/her's efforts.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on May 27, 2011, 06:11:PM
Smiffy, this statement analysis approach... purley out of interest... can you give any insight as to how you apply its principles etc?  Is it a known method that you have studied?

its very effective... it is sometimes called forensic linguistics...a very useful investigative tool.

you can research it if you want .....
doing full breakdowns on parts of statements as to why conclusions are reached can take a while and be long winded...sometimes small bits are broken down as an example.

liars are fairly easy to detect in some cases...however giving away all the methods used is not a good idea as those reading up can change things such as forum posts or future evidence to a degree to get around it. That as well as time is why I dont practise giving big breakdowns in forum posts  and limit what I do put.

the statement analysis I am doing in this case...is purely that...my assessments based purely on the statements independent of other information in the case or other peoples views etc or other information available....

once experience is gained using statement analysis ...some deceptions are very easy to spot. In other cases the liar is far more evasive and less obvious...but most the time indicators are found that can suggest areas to be investigated further or hidden information.


oh Jane Tanner..her fabrication in one statement alone is obvious without needing to see changes between her changes of account.

as a side note on Tanner she refers to passing by Gerry and Jeremy...hmm who both did not see her... but she missed something out...that Jeremy was pushing his child around in a pram/push chair...how did she miss that ...doh
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 07:49:PM
Cul de sac, next to apartment block across the road from where Maddie went missing

View of apartment 6, where I stayed in June 2010:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 07:53:PM
Apartment 5a, is just out of sight to the left in the last image, but this is the road that runs adjacent to it - the cul de sac, affords access to a footpath that leads down towards the sea (if you go right) or back up to the roadside of that apartment (if you turn left on the far side of the cul de sac)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 07:55:PM
Road that leads to the "baptiste supermarket" from the vicinty of apartment 5a:-

As everyone can see the journey to the "baptiste supermarket" would not have taken very long to negotiate, basically put, just a couple of hundred yards or so down the road...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 08:02:PM
Direction that a man was allegedly seen by Jane Tanner, carrying off a child in his arms, across the junction from right to left

Such a man would have had to walk along this road once he and the child he was carrying crossed the junction - the apartment where I stayed in June 2010, is situated out of shot to the right in this photograph:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 08:06:PM
View on other side of road at junction - the direction from which the man carrying the child, emerged:-

According to Jane tanner, the man carrying the child, came down the footpath shown, and crossed the road junction carrying the child in his arms...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 08:14:PM
Views from roadside at rear of tapas bar and restaurant:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 27, 2011, 08:37:PM
Alleyway that ran between the poolside of apartment block from where Maddie went missing, and the "tapas bar" where her parents and friends wined and dined:-

Path that runs between poolside of 5a and tapas bar restaurant and pool...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 27, 2011, 11:26:PM
Jane Tanner first saw an egg man. who turned into a Robert Murat lookalike, and eventually came up with some kind of monster from out of space - amazing how the artist's impression showed a detailed face from front on when all she ever saw was a side view in semi darkness.

I watched 'The Truth of the Lie' today on You Tube, just about everything in the docu points towards a fabricated abduction and death in 5a.

It also points towards a diplomatic cover-up and smokescreen.

Maddie was left alone two nights before for at least 2 hours, and I believe for a similar period on another evening. Maybe the checks by Gerry and Kate were actually part of the operation to dispose of Maddie's body, and perhaps the person Jane saw was an accomplice of the McCann's - just a thought.

( Great pics Mike! ).
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on May 27, 2011, 11:29:PM
I was wondering Mike if you could tell us how long in your  own estimate would it take Gerry to go from room 5A to the beach and more specifically the drain you feel Maddie was hidden and back to the apartment?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: boheme on May 28, 2011, 12:09:AM
The case of Jeremy Bamber and Jerry McCain bear a striking resemblence - both said "its up to you to prove I'm guilty"....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 28, 2011, 05:18:AM
I was wondering Mike if you could tell us how long in your  own estimate would it take Gerry to go from room 5A to the beach and more specifically the drain you feel Maddie was hidden and back to the apartment?
---------------------

the time it would take to walk from 5a to that part of the beach where the second horizontal drain is located would be about 8 to 10 minutes, depending upon which route you would / might take - I walked several routes to the drain, incorporating the spot where the Smith family contingent spotted a man who they believed was Gerry McCann carrying the child (Maddie) in his arms. I photographed the route I think is / was the most likeliest taken from 5a, based upon information contained in the Maddie files, and my own personal thoughts, and ideas on the matter. A person walking that route carrying a child, might / would be able to make the return journey from the beach to the apartment block much quicker, since by that stage, with the child disposed of in the seciond horizontal drain on that isolated spot along the coast...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 28, 2011, 06:04:AM
Baptiste Supermarket - just down the road from apartment 5a:-

Views around the supermarket grounds, and security cameras (as of June 2010), it would take literally two to three minutes to walk from vicinity of 5a to this supermarket. It is not known if these security cameras were in use at the material time that Maddie went missing from 5a, in May 2007:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 28, 2011, 06:20:AM
View from footpath on road at back of apartment block, looking in direction of 5a:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 28, 2011, 06:50:AM
It was along this footpath that Jane Tanner would have had to return to her apartment on the occasion that she claims that she saw the man carrying off a child in his arms, with the steel shutter at the window of 5a, visible to her on that occasion...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 28, 2011, 06:59:AM
view from pool and tapas bar area:-

Apartment 5a, is shown in this image, far right at end of apartment block...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 28, 2011, 10:07:PM
Smiffy, this statement analysis approach... purley out of interest... can you give any insight as to how you apply its principles etc?  Is it a known method that you have studied?

its very effective... it is sometimes called forensic linguistics...a very useful investigative tool.

you can research it if you want .....
doing full breakdowns on parts of statements as to why conclusions are reached can take a while and be long winded...sometimes small bits are broken down as an example.

liars are fairly easy to detect in some cases...however giving away all the methods used is not a good idea as those reading up can change things such as forum posts or future evidence to a degree to get around it. That as well as time is why I dont practise giving big breakdowns in forum posts  and limit what I do put.

the statement analysis I am doing in this case...is purely that...my assessments based purely on the statements independent of other information in the case or other peoples views etc or other information available....

once experience is gained using statement analysis ...some deceptions are very easy to spot. In other cases the liar is far more evasive and less obvious...but most the time indicators are found that can suggest areas to be investigated further or hidden information.


oh Jane Tanner..her fabrication in one statement alone is obvious without needing to see changes between her changes of account.

as a side note on Tanner she refers to passing by Gerry and Jeremy...hmm who both did not see her... but she missed something out...that Jeremy was pushing his child around in a pram/push chair...how did she miss that ...doh

I'm non the wiser... but will check it out like you suggest Smiffy.  Cheers.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 29, 2011, 08:27:AM
Just read Kates book and have to say ive always been a bit cynical about this case, im now sure they didnt have anything to do with it at all.

Not sure about their friends etc... But i dont think tje Mcanns were involved!

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 10:02:AM
Just read Kates book and have to say ive always been a bit cynical about this case, im now sure they didnt have anything to do with it at all.

Not sure about their friends etc... But i dont think tje Mcanns were involved!
-------------------

Why lie about the window shutter capable of being opened from the outside of the building?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 10:10:AM
Lets take a look around block five, and 5a, from where Maddie disappeared from:-

Starting point for tour of area begins in the car park of block six (next apartment down the road from where Maddie went missing). Junction shown in first image is the road junction across which Jane Tanner allegedly saw the man carrying off a child who could have been Maddie...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 10:55:AM
The aforementioned pictures show views between the car park of block six and the junction at the top of the road, adjacent to block four (block five being from where Maddie went missing), some of the images show views into the car[parks of Blocks five and four, from the footpath which ruins along the road to the junction at the top of the hill. It should be noted that there is a foot[path or an alley that runs between blocks five and four, from the car parks of the apartments to the adjoining alleyway and footpath that runs parallel to the poolside and "tapas bar" restaurant:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 10:58:AM
More images:-

The next set of images show views whilst returning back down hill in the general direction of Block five and the footpath that runs between blocks five and four...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 11:36:AM
More images:-

next set of pictures show views from footpath between blocks five and four, and the alleyway that runs between the "tapas bar" restaurant, where parents and friends were wining and dining, and poolside and block five, apartment 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 11:52:AM
More images:-

Showing views looking back along alleyway / footpath between pool and "tapas bar" restaurant and block five and four in general direction to far end of block four and poolside...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 12:39:PM
Now, lets go back up the footpath between blocks five and four and take a look at the other ground floor apartments and in particular to shutters at the window of 5a, and its door on the roadside of the building:-

We will now go back up the footpath between blocks five and four, and look left and then right into the carparks of each block and then we will walk twards 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 29, 2011, 02:35:PM
Mike cant you put all photos on a seperate thread? It really slows the flow of the threads when there are dozens of photos on it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 02:42:PM
Mike cant you put all photos on a seperate thread? It really slows the flow of the threads when there are dozens of photos on it.
-----------------

Same problem will occur if I put all photographs on same thread, sorry for the inconvenience at this stage, but I will seek advice from my technician at some stage in the future to try and resolve this problem. In the mean time, I was merely trying to give every reader an insight into the the layout and locality of apartment 5a, in relation to block six (where I stayed for a week in 2010) and the "tapas bar" restaurant area...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on May 29, 2011, 02:48:PM
Mike cant you put all photos on a seperate thread? It really slows the flow of the threads when there are dozens of photos on it.
-----------------

Same problem will occur if I put all photographs on same thread, sorry for the inconvenience at this stage, but I will seek advice from my technician at some stage in the future to try and resolve this problem. In the mean time, I was merely trying to give every reader an insight into the the layout and locality of apartment 5a, in relation to block six (where I stayed for a week in 2010) and the "tapas bar" restaurant area...

Oh yeh i appreciate that and when im on my laptop its not such an issue but when catching up with the forum on my phone it sometimes takes ages for the photos to appear and cant read new posts until they have.

Not sure if others have the same problem.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2011, 02:52:PM
Mike cant you put all photos on a seperate thread? It really slows the flow of the threads when there are dozens of photos on it.
-----------------

Same problem will occur if I put all photographs on same thread, sorry for the inconvenience at this stage, but I will seek advice from my technician at some stage in the future to try and resolve this problem. In the mean time, I was merely trying to give every reader an insight into the the layout and locality of apartment 5a, in relation to block six (where I stayed for a week in 2010) and the "tapas bar" restaurant area...

Oh yeh i appreciate that and when im on my laptop its not such an issue but when catching up with the forum on my phone it sometimes takes ages for the photos to appear and cant read new posts until they have.

Not sure if others have the same problem.
------------------

I appreciate the technical problem that you are talking about, because I have the very same problem during the day when I am travelling around in the UK, and I have to rely upon my mobile phone - this is one of the reasons why I can only post short messages during the day (because I am travelling around and relying upon my mobile phone internet connection). I think this is a problem that afflicts all of us...

In the mean time...

I am merely trying to give each and every reader a general insight into the layout of the crime scene, something which no-one else has attempted to do, as far as I know...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 11:42:AM
Impossible for anyone outside this bedroom window to raise the metal shutter at the window

The only way this metal shutter at the bedroom window of 5a, could be raised was by someone inside the bedroom operating the strap on the right hand side of the window / wall (left hand side when viewed from outside bedroom window)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 11:44:AM
No tool marks were present on the shutter, and the only fingerprints found on the window catch and the shutter were those belonging to the parents...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 11:53:AM
Routes of importance

I have already tried to produce views around the apartment blocks in the immediate vicinity of apartment 5a, from where Maddie went missing, but I intend to post other photographs of routes leading from there to other areas at the resort, for viewers consideration:-

(1) route to Millennium club / restaurant, from apartment 5a
(2) route to St Vincents church ( Lady of light), from 5a
(3) route to area where Smith contingent saw man carrying child who could have been Maddie
(4) route from 5a, to LUZDOC premises
(5) route from 5a, to beach where small boats are moored up at night in vicinity of 2nd horizontal drain
(6) route from 2nd horizontal drain, along coast to footpath alongside The Bull pub and Derelict building
(7) location of vertical drains in vicinity of church
(8) Location of horizontal drains at area near church and further along coast near small boats
(9) Coastal footpath along sea front from first horizontal drain to shops and restaurant bar
(10) location of portable bins close to apartment 5a, and along aforementioned routes
(11) location of underground bin containers, close to 5a, and along aforementioned routes

other routes to be added:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 30, 2011, 11:55:AM
Mike... all this window shutter business.  Surely if you and others can work it out.. it's not going to take Scotland Yard long to do the same.  Now surely if the McCann's know what happened re Maddie, they must have sussed that more coppers crawling all over the shutter discrepancies isn't going to help their case? 

I'm Just trying to figure out what the hell their game is (if indeed as many suspect, they know far more than they're letting on).
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:02:PM
Mike... all this window shutter business.  Surely if you and others can work it out.. it's not going to take Scotland Yard long to do the same.  Now surely if the McCann's know what happened re Maddie, they must have sussed that more coppers crawling all over the shutter discrepancies isn't going to help their case? 

I'm Just trying to figure out what the hell their game is (if indeed as many suspect, they know far more than they're letting on).
--------------------

Yes, I understand this business about the shutters at the window, but I can assure you that I looked very closely at this shutter, and the security device which is in place, and there is no way that anyone could open that bedroom window shutter from the outside, without any help from someone inside the bedroom. Gerry McCann cannot be correct when he says that immediately upon arriving back at the apartment after Kate raised the alarm that Maddie was missing, he went outside after he closed the shutter and was able to raise it all by himself from outside the bedroom window. This could not and did not happen, and so you have to ask the question - why did they make up this lie?

 I can only re-affirm that it would be impossible for anyone outside the bedroom window to open the metal shutter, without any help from  someone inside the bedroom. What this means is that if Maddie was taken through that bedroom window, it had to involve two people, not one...

What this means as far as I am concerned, is that if we are looking at an abduction, it involved two or more persons, not one solitary loner...

Nobody saw two strangers anywhere in the vicinity of 5a that night, there is only the report of a solitary figure seen by Jane Tanner who she claims carried off a child across the road junction between blocks five and six - I regard this sighting as dubious to say the least, I think it was a red herring, a smoke screen, to deflect attention away from what was really taking place......
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:13:PM
Routes taken between "tapas bar", and apartment block five, by members iof the "tapas group":-

There were two possible routes that members of the group could take between block five and the "tapas bar" restaurant:-

(1) out of reception, up the road to the junction, turn left and enter the car park at the rear of block five and go down some steps into the general area of the apartments

(2) out of reception, up the road to an alleyway that runs between the apartment block and the poolside restaurant and bar, along that path, until you meet another adjoining alley and footpath that runs between blocks four and five, go along this footpath, and turn right towards apartments

(3) group members could leave block five and go to the "tapas bar", in reverse direction, as specified at (1) and (2), aforementioned...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:25:PM
MET police need to establish the routes taken by all members of the group that went to the "tapas bar" from their apartments, and back and forth to the "tapas bar" and apartments between initially going out to wine and dine, right up until Maddie was discovered to be missing by Kate at around 10pm...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:29:PM
Discrepancy about which door Kate used when she went to check on the children at about 10pm?

According to one version of events given to the Portuguese police by Gerry McCann, Kate used her key on the roadside door to gain access to 5a when she went there at about 10pm, but Kate states that she entered by way of the patio door on the poolside of the building - how could the parents get such details mixed up?

So, which route did Kate take, to get from the "tapas bar" restaurant to apartment 5a, on that occasion, (1) or (2), aforementioned?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:31:PM
Why would Kate go to the roadside door and use her key, if she knew that the patio door on the poolside had been left open?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:33:PM
Why would Gerry think Kate used her key on the door at the roadside of the premises, at 10pm, rather than use the open patio door entrance, on the poolside of the building? Surely he would have spoken to Kate before the police arrived to ascertain which way she had gone, and what she discovered upon entering the premises?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:38:PM
Things just don't add up

Working on the proviso that Jane Tanner did see a man carrying off a child that could have been Maddie, at about 9.20pm - then when Mathew Oldfield went to the apartment (5a) at about 9:30pm, and he opened the patio door, the bedroom door would have slammed shut because of the vacuum which have been generated, between the open bedroom window and steel shutter, and the open patio door. According to Oldfield this did not happen, and so the bedroom window and steel shutter could not have been open at that time, or by that stage...

Either, Oldfield is / was lying, or Jane tanner was / is lying, or both...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:42:PM
Similarly, when Kate went to 5a at about 10pm, if she entered via the roadside door, as told to the Portuguese police by Gerry, she would have noticed that the steel shutter at the bedroom window was open along with the window - and if she entered via the open patio door, it would have created a vacuum and slammed shut the bedroom door, if the bedroom window and steel shutter was already open by that stage...

What this alerts everyone to, is the fact that one or more of these persons is not telling the truth about the state of the bedroom window and steel shutter of 5a, that evening...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:45:PM
Maddie taken to nearby apartment

I believe that Maddie's body was taken to one of the apartments in the same block that was used by another member of the group, what is not clear, is whether this involved the cooperation and knowlege of one or both parents?

If true...

the only other members of the group that could have been involved in this were:-

(1) Mathew Oldfield
(2) Russell O'Brien
(3) David Payne
(4) Jane Tanner
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 12:49:PM
Permutation of  which two, or more, could have pulled off the abduction?

(1) departure of Mathew Oldfield, and Russell O'Brien, from the "tapas bar" at about 9:30pm, to go and check apartment 5a, could be linked to disappearance of Maddie from 5a...

(2) departure of Jane Tanner from "tapas bar" at about 9:15pm, could also be linked...

(3) story about sick child belonging to Tanner and O'Brien, sets off alarm bells ringing...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 01:03:PM
Three potential hiding places where body of Maddie could have originally been concealed - not yet checked by Portuguese police

These three locations might appear to be obvious, but the sad truth of the matter is that none of them have ever been checked not even up to this date:-

(1) the two roof spaces adjoining apartment 5a
(2) roof space adjoining apartment 5f

other potential roof spaces where body could have temporarily been concealed, or displaced...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 01:11:PM
Yet to be determined, is whether access to these roof spaces could be accessed from either apartment 5a, 5f, or one of the other apartments, used by a member of the group?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 30, 2011, 04:57:PM
Mike... all this window shutter business.  Surely if you and others can work it out.. it's not going to take Scotland Yard long to do the same.  Now surely if the McCann's know what happened re Maddie, they must have sussed that more coppers crawling all over the shutter discrepancies isn't going to help their case? 

I'm Just trying to figure out what the hell their game is (if indeed as many suspect, they know far more than they're letting on).
--------------------

Yes, I understand this business about the shutters at the window, but I can assure you that I looked very closely at this shutter, and the security device which is in place, and there is no way that anyone could open that bedroom window shutter from the outside, without any help from someone inside the bedroom. Gerry McCann cannot be correct when he says that immediately upon arriving back at the apartment after Kate raised the alarm that Maddie was missing, he went outside after he closed the shutter and was able to raise it all by himself from outside the bedroom window. This could not and did not happen, and so you have to ask the question - why did they make up this lie?

 I can only re-affirm that it would be impossible for anyone outside the bedroom window to open the metal shutter, without any help from  someone inside the bedroom. What this means is that if Maddie was taken through that bedroom window, it had to involve two people, not one...

What this means as far as I am concerned, is that if we are looking at an abduction, it involved two or more persons, not one solitary loner...

Nobody saw two strangers anywhere in the vicinity of 5a that night, there is only the report of a solitary figure seen by Jane Tanner who she claims carried off a child across the road junction between blocks five and six - I regard this sighting as dubious to say the least, I think it was a red herring, a smoke screen, to deflect attention away from what was really taking place......

It's a puzzler alright.  I'm thinking Maddie may have died much earlier than when Kate raised the alarm. What i don't understand is why her death could not have been reported to the authorities in the normal manner as one would expect.  And if there has been some kind of collusion among any members of the Tapas lot, with the aim of concealing of true circs in which Maddie died.. we seem to have another situation where no one cracks.  I can just about buy a 'welded together in collusion' scenario, if the circs of Maddies death meant that the stakes were very high indeed... but i struggle with all this writing to David Cameron stuff.  As double bluffs go Mike, it's risky business to get the Met. involved.   
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:05:PM
Does anyone think that Mathew Oldfield could have been mistaken for Gerry McCann in the dark?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 30, 2011, 05:13:PM
Does anyone think that Mathew Oldfield could have been mistaken for Gerry McCann in the dark?

Images of Matthew Oldfield

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/Matthew-Oldfield.jpg

http://www.madeleinemccann.org/tfm/images/thecast/moldfield300x400.jpg

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/notwoldfield.JPG

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/3rog_mathew_oldfield.jpg
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:18:PM
Photographs taken by myself, available at the following link address:-

(1) http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Mike_Teskowski.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:22:PM
Looking in the direction of the second horizontal drain along the west coast, from the restaurant terrace at The Bull public house, PDL, and a reverse view, standing in the vicinity of the same drain looking back in the direction of the pub, church and derelict building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:25:PM
Access to the beach in the vicinity where the second horizontal drain is located -  if you go down this road and turn left it takes you in the general direction of the Bull pub, church and derelict building...

Also shown, is reverse view from edge of road looking back towards main road - if you turn right at the junction, it takes you back in the general direction of Kellys bar, and LUZDOC...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:32:PM
Showing view from corner of street which leads left and out of sight, downhill to the church, and derelict building, and The Bull pub - Kelly's bar is beyond the tables on the left, downhill and on the right out of sight...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2011, 05:43:PM
Night view looking down hill in the direction of the reception, and "tapas bar" restaurant entrance - towards where Baptiste supermarket is located, apartment 5a is situated on right in photograph...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 10:18:AM
There must have been at least two people involved in Maddies disappearance if she left through bedroom window...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on May 31, 2011, 12:43:PM
There must have been at least two people involved in Maddies disappearance if she left through bedroom window...

Did anyone actually witness the window being open and the shutters pulled up? I just cant see why someone would go to all the trouble of that when they could have just gone through the front door.Any kidnapper was taking a big gamble too,as the McCanns or any of their holiday friends could have have come by the apartment at any given moment.As for all the sightings of strange men carrying a child,wouldnt it have been more logical to have had a vehicle waiting at the front of the apartment?It is all very odd   :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 31, 2011, 01:11:PM
Two people involved if through shutter...and agree that Maddie would have been put straight into a false plated car or van. Who the **** would walk the streets with an abducted child?

I have doubts that Jane Tanner saw anything at all.

I still think it possible that the McCann's or other members of the Tapas 9 set up the shutter scenario as a fabrication.

Spoke to my ex wife about the case at the weekend, she thinks Gerry and Kate did it.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 09:16:PM
Two people involved if through shutter...and agree that Maddie would have been put straight into a false plated car or van. Who the **** would walk the streets with an abducted child?

I have doubts that Jane Tanner saw anything at all.

I still think it possible that the McCann's or other members of the Tapas 9 set up the shutter scenario as a fabrication.

Spoke to my ex wife about the case at the weekend, she thinks Gerry and Kate did it.
-----------------------

Iv'e been giving the Smith sighting some more thought - think it could be linked to O"Brien staying behind at his apartment to look after his sick child, when Mathew Oldfield returned to the "tapas bar", after the 9:30pm check on apartment 5a...

Did O'Brien take his sick daughter out to LUZDOC that night, which is situated along the route taken by the man who was seen by the Smith contingent? Was Maddie moved from 5a by Oldfield and O'Brien, and taken into either O'Briens or Oldfield's apartment at around 9:30pm? A psychic friend of mine seems to think that the two children overdosed, on adult recreation drugs, and Maddie died, and the other child survived, and this was why members of the group closed shop and built up the story about an abduction...

Child of O'Brien / Tanner survived - Maddie did not...

My friend believes that Smith contingent saw the other sick child being carried in the arms of one member of the group, who was not Gerry McCann, my friend says the child being carried was not dead, but unwell, and that this child did not die, but was returned to the apartment...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 09:23:PM
My psychic friend, also says that when Kate went to apartment 5a at about 10pm, she was met there by someone from the group - I have pressed for more information but my friend is not forthcoming...

I think other person at 5a was Jane Tanner or David Payne...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 09:32:PM
Psychic friend says that bed sheet went missing or was washed because it contained traces of sickness and the Adult recreation drug that the child and Maddie had overdosed on...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 31, 2011, 09:34:PM
Two people involved if through shutter...and agree that Maddie would have been put straight into a false plated car or van. Who the **** would walk the streets with an abducted child?

I have doubts that Jane Tanner saw anything at all.

I still think it possible that the McCann's or other members of the Tapas 9 set up the shutter scenario as a fabrication.

Spoke to my ex wife about the case at the weekend, she thinks Gerry and Kate did it.
-----------------------

Iv'e been giving the Smith sighting some more thought - think it could be linked to O"Brien staying behind at his apartment to look after his sick child, when Mathew Oldfield returned to the "tapas bar", after the 9:30pm check on apartment 5a...

Did O'Brien take his sick daughter out to LUZDOC that night, which is situated along the route taken by the man who was seen by the Smith contingent? Was Maddie moved from 5a by Oldfield and O'Brien, and taken into either O'Briens or Oldfield's apartment at around 9:30pm? A psychic friend of mine seems to think that the two children overdosed, on adult recreation drugs, and Maddie died, and the other child survived, and this was why members of the group closed shop and built up the story about an abduction...

Child of O'Brien / Tanner survived - Maddie did not...

My friend believes that Smith contingent saw the other sick child being carried in the arms of one member of the group, who was not Gerry McCann, my friend says the child being carried was not dead, but unwell, and that this child did not die, but was returned to the apartment...

Christ on a bike Mike... that'll throw the cat among the pigeons with a few on here... mind you that's a hell of a theory, which I bet nobody else has ever come up with.  Would explain a lot if there was truth in it.  Mike, dare I ask... has this source got an opinion on the main case?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 31, 2011, 09:40:PM
Very interesting Mike, and quite possible.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 09:44:PM
Two people involved if through shutter...and agree that Maddie would have been put straight into a false plated car or van. Who the **** would walk the streets with an abducted child?

I have doubts that Jane Tanner saw anything at all.

I still think it possible that the McCann's or other members of the Tapas 9 set up the shutter scenario as a fabrication.

Spoke to my ex wife about the case at the weekend, she thinks Gerry and Kate did it.
-----------------------

Iv'e been giving the Smith sighting some more thought - think it could be linked to O"Brien staying behind at his apartment to look after his sick child, when Mathew Oldfield returned to the "tapas bar", after the 9:30pm check on apartment 5a...

Did O'Brien take his sick daughter out to LUZDOC that night, which is situated along the route taken by the man who was seen by the Smith contingent? Was Maddie moved from 5a by Oldfield and O'Brien, and taken into either O'Briens or Oldfield's apartment at around 9:30pm? A psychic friend of mine seems to think that the two children overdosed, on adult recreation drugs, and Maddie died, and the other child survived, and this was why members of the group closed shop and built up the story about an abduction...

Child of O'Brien / Tanner survived - Maddie did not...

My friend believes that Smith contingent saw the other sick child being carried in the arms of one member of the group, who was not Gerry McCann, my friend says the child being carried was not dead, but unwell, and that this child did not die, but was returned to the apartment...

Christ on a bike Mike... that'll throw the cat among the pigeons with a few on here... mind you that's a hell of a theory, which I bet nobody else has ever come up with.  Would explain a lot if there was truth in it.  Mike, dare I ask... has this source got an opinion on the main case?
-----------------------

Yes, psychic friend is of the opinion that Jeremy encouraged Sheila to do it, friend says Jeremy was not there when family shot, and he did not pay anyone to carry out the shootings, friend says there was no need to pay anyone, Sheila was primed to carry out the shootings, and she snapped when her parents started talking about getting her some help to look after the children, or that foster parents could be found to take care of them...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 31, 2011, 09:55:PM
Mike - have you considered that Maddie may have died in O'Briens apartment? Was she ever in 5a that evening? It may have been some kind of kids sleepover. Or failing that, was the O'Brien's kid in 5a? The number of 'checks' on the evening Maddie disappeared were completely out of sync with what had gone on before ( thinking back to Mrs Fenn's statement etc ).

Back on the Jeremy trail, I too came across someone who thought Jeremy somehow put Shelia up to the killings.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 31, 2011, 09:59:PM
Two people involved if through shutter...and agree that Maddie would have been put straight into a false plated car or van. Who the **** would walk the streets with an abducted child?

I have doubts that Jane Tanner saw anything at all.

I still think it possible that the McCann's or other members of the Tapas 9 set up the shutter scenario as a fabrication.

Spoke to my ex wife about the case at the weekend, she thinks Gerry and Kate did it.
-----------------------

Iv'e been giving the Smith sighting some more thought - think it could be linked to O"Brien staying behind at his apartment to look after his sick child, when Mathew Oldfield returned to the "tapas bar", after the 9:30pm check on apartment 5a...

Did O'Brien take his sick daughter out to LUZDOC that night, which is situated along the route taken by the man who was seen by the Smith contingent? Was Maddie moved from 5a by Oldfield and O'Brien, and taken into either O'Briens or Oldfield's apartment at around 9:30pm? A psychic friend of mine seems to think that the two children overdosed, on adult recreation drugs, and Maddie died, and the other child survived, and this was why members of the group closed shop and built up the story about an abduction...

Child of O'Brien / Tanner survived - Maddie did not...

My friend believes that Smith contingent saw the other sick child being carried in the arms of one member of the group, who was not Gerry McCann, my friend says the child being carried was not dead, but unwell, and that this child did not die, but was returned to the apartment...

Christ on a bike Mike... that'll throw the cat among the pigeons with a few on here... mind you that's a hell of a theory, which I bet nobody else has ever come up with.  Would explain a lot if there was truth in it.  Mike, dare I ask... has this source got an opinion on the main case?
-----------------------

Yes, psychic friend is of the opinion that Jeremy encouraged Sheila to do it...

Sorry to digress, given this is a Madeleine McCann thread... but is this what you were referring to when you said... someone once suggested that 'Jeremy's accomplice was Sheila'?  And do you have an opinion on the psychic's opinion?  To me that theory would be related to the gun left on the settle and the 'conversation' re the twins...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 10:01:PM
Mike - have you considered that Maddie may have died in O'Briens apartment? Was she ever in 5a that evening? It may have been some kind of kids sleepover. Or failing that, was the O'Brien's kid in 5a? The number of 'checks' on the evening Maddie disappeared were completely out of sync with what had gone on before ( thinking back to Mrs Fenn's statement etc ).

Back on the Jeremy trail, I too came across someone who thought Jeremy somehow put Shelia up to the killings.
----------------------

My friend says that Jeremy answered all the questions truthfully and honestly when he took the lie detector test - but Jeremy was not asked directly if he put up Sheila to shoot everyone at some stage. Friends says Jeremy did receive call from Ralph, at which stage it was the signal that Sheila might have started to carry out the shootings as she had been primed to do...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 31, 2011, 10:05:PM
Mike, what is your psychic friend's track record? Has he/she been proven correct in the past?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on May 31, 2011, 10:09:PM
Mike, what is your psychic friend's track record? Has he/she been proven correct in the past?

Pugsie - no psychic has ever been "proven correct". If they had, it would have been very big news indeed  :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on May 31, 2011, 10:10:PM
I too mentioned a psychic some weeks ago, yet got shot down in flames on here for doing so, interesting though, that he also suggested some collaberation between Jeremy and Shelia. He certainly had Shelia as the shooter.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 10:14:PM
Mike, what is your psychic friend's track record? Has he/she been proven correct in the past?
...............

Yes, of course...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 31, 2011, 10:14:PM
I know, Bob. If all this psychic stuff had any truth to it, there would be no such thing as an unsolved crime. Sadly.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 31, 2011, 10:15:PM
Oops, sorry, crossed posts. Can you tell us more, Mike? I am genuinely interested.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 10:21:PM
I brought stones back from Portugal beach and derelict building opposite church to give to my friend, also some cuttings from shrub of garden beneath patio veranda of 5a...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 31, 2011, 10:29:PM
Mike, have you ever broached the psychic's opinion with Jeremy?  And do you have an opinion on their view re Jeremy?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2011, 10:36:PM
Mike, have you ever broached the psychic's opinion with Jeremy?  And do you have an opinion on their view re Jeremy?
--------------------------

I only ever broached the subject once with Jeremy, and that was in an indirect way when I was once speaking to him about the so called suicide note (rows and columns of capital letters) - "Now Make Dad, Go Downstairs, Bedroom Phone Lead unplugged, Get Jeremy to Come To Farm", I told Jeremy that my friend interpreted the note to mean this, and Jeremy appeared shocked at first and then he beamed back one of those massive grins that are characteristic of him, and he simply said, words to the effect, my friend and I should keep such comments to ourselves...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on May 31, 2011, 11:04:PM
But why? (Do you want to take this to a more appropriate thread?)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 01, 2011, 08:21:AM
But why? (Do you want to take this to a more appropriate thread?)
... When I spoke to Jeremy originally about this matter, he actually said, ' Clever b---s---d', as though he was suprised by the ease with which my psychic friend interpreted the note?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 01, 2011, 10:45:AM
Mike,sorry wrong thread I know,but did your psychic friend forsee Jeremys release from prison,in the future?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 01, 2011, 05:00:PM
But why? (Do you want to take this to a more appropriate thread?)
... When I spoke to Jeremy originally about this matter, he actually said, ' Clever b---s---d', as though he was suprised by the ease with which my psychic friend interpreted the note?

Mike, million dollar question here... do you retain any percentage in your own mind, as to some kind of involvement from Jeremy, as per the psychic implied?  Say if I'm 80/20... are you 95/5?  ;)

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 01, 2011, 05:16:PM
Mike, have you ever broached the psychic's opinion with Jeremy?  And do you have an opinion on their view re Jeremy?
--------------------------

I only ever broached the subject once with Jeremy, and that was in an indirect way when I was once speaking to him about the so called suicide note (rows and columns of capital letters) - "Now Make Dad, Go Downstairs, Bedroom Phone Lead unplugged, Get Jeremy to Come To Farm", I told Jeremy that my friend interpreted the note to mean this, and Jeremy appeared shocked at first and then he beamed back one of those massive grins that are characteristic of him, and he simply said, words to the effect, my friend and I should keep such comments to ourselves...

I assumed it was you or Taff Jones who had applied that interpretation.  I'm a little taken aback that it was a 'psychic'.  I still dont get get how it would fit in with Jeremy having put Sheila up to it.  Since it is highly unlikely that he had sufficient understanding of Sheila's mental health issues required manipulate her to that extent.  Unless he told her the twins were going to be taken away in the night by Social Services and that this had been secretly arranged by Neville / June etc.  How could he engineer a psychotic episode in his sister, at a specific time?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 01, 2011, 05:46:PM
Mike,sorry wrong thread I know,but did your psychic friend forsee Jeremys release from prison,in the future?
... Yes, most definately - psychic friend has foretold of his impending release...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 01, 2011, 08:36:PM
Why did parents and "tapas group" members have to write down a time table of events that evening before they contacted the police, to show who checked the apartments and when?

What exactly were they all fearful of?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 01, 2011, 08:38:PM
Why did parents and "tapas group" members have to write down a time table of events that evening before they contacted the police, to show who checked the apartments and when?

What exactly were they all fearful of?
Because they needed to give themselves alibis?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 01, 2011, 08:40:PM
Why did parents and "tapas group" members have to write down a time table of events that evening before they contacted the police, to show who checked the apartments and when?

What exactly were they all fearful of?
Because they needed to give themselves alibis?
..................

Yes, it looks that way to me, too...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on June 01, 2011, 10:49:PM
There was something said in a previous post about the likelihood of this Senario being successful when so many people are involved in a cover up that made me think about certain things.

The possible reason for getting the others to confirm in some form of writting the various times they had checked on their kids and the children of the other members may have helped include them in the deception.

They may have been manipulated to include times that may have helped cover or corroborate timing's from those who were involved.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on June 01, 2011, 11:12:PM
Mike, have you ever broached the psychic's opinion with Jeremy?  And do you have an opinion on their view re Jeremy?
--------------------------

I only ever broached the subject once with Jeremy, and that was in an indirect way when I was once speaking to him about the so called suicide note (rows and columns of capital letters) - "Now Make Dad, Go Downstairs, Bedroom Phone Lead unplugged, Get Jeremy to Come To Farm", I told Jeremy that my friend interpreted the note to mean this, and Jeremy appeared shocked at first and then he beamed back one of those massive grins that are characteristic of him, and he simply said, words to the effect, my friend and I should keep such comments to ourselves...

I assumed it was you or Taff Jones who had applied that interpretation.  I'm a little taken aback that it was a 'psychic'.  I still dont get get how it would fit in with Jeremy having put Sheila up to it.  Since it is highly unlikely that he had sufficient understanding of Sheila's mental health issues required manipulate her to that extent.  Unless he told her the twins were going to be taken away in the night by Social Services and that this had been secretly arranged by Neville / June etc.  How could he engineer a psychotic episode in his sister, at a specific time?
I appreciate your "taken aback" Roch. Unfortunately if you apply a similar analysis to the other posted "evidence" you can spot a pattern  :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 01, 2011, 11:33:PM
Mike, have you ever broached the psychic's opinion with Jeremy?  And do you have an opinion on their view re Jeremy?
--------------------------

I only ever broached the subject once with Jeremy, and that was in an indirect way when I was once speaking to him about the so called suicide note (rows and columns of capital letters) - "Now Make Dad, Go Downstairs, Bedroom Phone Lead unplugged, Get Jeremy to Come To Farm", I told Jeremy that my friend interpreted the note to mean this, and Jeremy appeared shocked at first and then he beamed back one of those massive grins that are characteristic of him, and he simply said, words to the effect, my friend and I should keep such comments to ourselves...

I assumed it was you or Taff Jones who had applied that interpretation.  I'm a little taken aback that it was a 'psychic'.  I still dont get get how it would fit in with Jeremy having put Sheila up to it.  Since it is highly unlikely that he had sufficient understanding of Sheila's mental health issues required manipulate her to that extent.  Unless he told her the twins were going to be taken away in the night by Social Services and that this had been secretly arranged by Neville / June etc.  How could he engineer a psychotic episode in his sister, at a specific time?
I appreciate your "taken aback" Roch. Unfortunately if you apply a similar analysis to the other posted "evidence" you can spot a pattern  :(

I did buy the suggestion from one poster that it was the children practicing sounds of letters.  I expect we'll never know for sure.  I keep a cautious, yet open mind about 'psychics'. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2011, 12:33:AM
The more I come to think about it, I am convinced that if the man seen by the Smith contingent was not somebody carrying off Maddie, then she was in one of the other apartments belonging to one of the other members of the group, in the knowledge of at least two or more group members, who I believe included, Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, Mathew Oldfield, David Payne, Gerry McCann and Kate. These individuals know what really happened to Maddie, I feel sure of it...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2011, 09:09:PM
Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?
---------------

Yes, I think I would...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2011, 09:16:PM
My psychic friend has consented to being filmed, talking about the case of Maddie McCann, and her disappearance in PDL, May 2007 - my friend is due to return from America in three weeks time, and has promised to reveal all in an interview, about his take on the case...

I have agreed in principal to such an interview and obtained my friends permission to broadcast the said interview, here...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on June 02, 2011, 09:59:PM
Ive said all along that if Sheila did it then JB was still behind it in some way.

Now back to what mike said Jeremy said when the idea that he may have persuaded sheila to carry out the murders was put to him ( he responded clever b****** then i hope never gets released.

If mike thinks this scenario is even a possibility then i dont understand why he still supports him!

Re the Maddie casei think the idea that the she may have taken recreational drugs that belonged to the adults highly likely BUT i still dont think Kate was involved and i also think someone would have cracked under the pressure by now. Why on earth would they push for a review and run risk of all this coming out!?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on June 02, 2011, 10:25:PM
Would anyone here have a different opinion if the McCanns took a lie detector test and passed?
---------------

Yes, I think I would...

I wouldn't - for the reasons discussed on the Lie Detector thread on the JB forum.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 02, 2011, 11:29:PM
Ive said all along that if Sheila did it then JB was still behind it in some way.

Now back to what mike said Jeremy said when the idea that he may have persuaded sheila to carry out the murders was put to him ( he responded clever b****** then i hope never gets released.


If mike thinks this scenario is even a possibility then i dont understand why he still supports him!

Re the Maddie casei think the idea that the she may have taken recreational drugs that belonged to the adults highly likely BUT i still dont think Kate was involved and i also think someone would have cracked under the pressure by now. Why on earth would they push for a review and run risk of all this coming out!?

Don't think the psychic will say it was deliberate manipulation on the part of Jeremy.  Think it's more likely things were said which got twisted in Sheila's mind.  How on earth could you prime someone to carry out those kind of killings?   Re Kate... hmmmm?  I agree though on the review thing... It's either the most brazen double bluff in the world or.... or what??
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 03, 2011, 01:08:AM
Poor Kate had no part in the loss of that child. But Gerry? How scary and controlling does he seem to be?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 03, 2011, 01:15:AM
But Mike, you can't just lose a body, even that small.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 03, 2011, 01:16:AM
Unless she was taken out to sea, as the tide was going out.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 05, 2011, 12:46:AM
Its possible.Apparantly the rubbish bins are emptied out at sea in the early hours of the morning.very nice  :o       However,I dont know how true this is.Maybe Mike could tell us?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 05, 2011, 05:36:AM
It does seem to be true.

The more I research the accounts of sightings by Jane Tanner, the less I trust her.

Sniffer dogs could not confirm what Tanner said she saw.

None of the Tapas 9 searched in the direction Tanner indicated.

Only two possible sightings of an abductor, the first by Tanner that was more or less dismissed as fabrication by the PJ, and the second by the Smith family.

As far as I can make out the body of Madeleine McCann may well have been hidden in or around 5A for a while.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 05, 2011, 09:30:AM
It does seem to be true.

The more I research the accounts of sightings by Jane Tanner, the less I trust her.

Sniffer dogs could not confirm what Tanner said she saw.

None of the Tapas 9 searched in the direction Tanner indicated.

Only two possible sightings of an abductor, the first by Tanner that was more or less dismissed as fabrication by the PJ, and the second by the Smith family.

As far as I can make out the body of Madeleine McCann may well have been hidden in or around 5A for a while.

Tanner doesn't seem to get any support does she?  Nobody seems to rate Tanner's sighting.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Alias on June 05, 2011, 12:52:PM
Is this the Twilight Zone.....?  :o
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2011, 03:07:PM
Its possible.Apparantly the rubbish bins are emptied out at sea in the early hours of the morning.very nice  :o       However,I dont know how true this is.Maybe Mike could tell us?
-------------------

I photographed all the bin locations in and around apartment 5a, the "Baptiste supermarket" and "other locations" in the close vicinity - pictures and maps to show their location will be posted in due course...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 05, 2011, 05:22:PM
Its possible.Apparantly the rubbish bins are emptied out at sea in the early hours of the morning.very nice  :o       However,I dont know how true this is.Maybe Mike could tell us?
-------------------

I photographed all the bin locations in and around apartment 5a, the "Baptiste supermarket" and "other locations" in the close vicinity - pictures and maps to show their location will be posted in due course...

But is it true that the rubbish is taken out to sea to be disposed of?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 05, 2011, 08:08:PM
Here is a very strange quote from Gerry McCann that was featured on BBC's Panorama...'Kate and I strongly believe that Madeleine was alive when she was taken from the apartment'...

In the hours and days following Madeleine's disappearance Kate often checked to see if the twins were still breathing.

Kate McCann kicked doors and walls in Apartment 5A in the initial aftermath of the event.

Sometimes I wonder if Kate found Madeleine dead herself and the times of the checks were switched around or lost in translation.

All of Kate McCann's actions and figures of speech suggested to some that she referred to her daughter in the past tense.

The rest may be denial.

Collusion between the McCann's and Jane Tanner?

All the hand holding between Gerry and Kate for the media may have been an act. They were not getting on too well during their stay in Portugal.


 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 05, 2011, 10:36:PM
Did Russell O'Brien go awol for a period long enough to hide the body of Madeleine McCann?

Police detected a phone call between Gerry McCann's mobile and that of Russell O'Brien between 10pm and 11pm at a distance of further than 10 miles.

The PJ identified a black hole of around 30 minutes after Kate's discovery - by the time they arrived at the compound about an hour or so may have passed in which time the body may have been hidden.

Google images may have confirmed this, and in defence of the McCann's ( for once ) it has to be said that they too enquired about the satellite images.

The McCann's were 'wired' by the PJ and with the full knowledge of Leicestershire Constabulary - at least, this is how I understand it.

Police thought Madeleine died of an overdose of a sleeping sedative.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2011, 10:42:PM
Did Russell O'Brien go awol for a period long enough to hide the body of Madeleine McCann?

Police detected a phone call between Gerry McCann's mobile and that of Russell O'Brien between 10pm and 11pm at a distance of further than 10 miles.

The PJ identified a black hole of around 30 minutes after Kate's discovery - by the time they arrived at the compound about an hour or so may have passed in which time the body may have been hidden.

Google images may have confirmed this, and in defence of the McCann's ( for once ) it has to be said that they too enquired about the satellite images.

The McCann's were 'wired' by the PJ and with the full knowledge of Leicestershire Constabulary - at least, this is how I understand it.

Police thought Madeleine died of an overdose of a sleeping sedative.
------------------------

I think Jane Tanner, and Russell O'Brien, are tied in deeply to the disappearance of Maddie, its just too coincidental that Jane claims she saw the abductor carrying off Maddie, and that Russell was away from the "tapas bar" at the time Maddie disappeared, allegedly from 5a...

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2011, 10:55:PM
The visit to the apartment block by Russel O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield at about 9:30pm, is very interesting for a number of different reasons, since, there was no access to their own apartments by way of the patio doors, because these had been locked from the inside and therefore Oldfield and O'Brien could only access their own apartments (5B and 5 D) by way of the roadside doors on the far side of the building away from the tapas bar, pool and restaurant...

Oldfield's apartment door, 5B was next door to the apartment where Maddie and the other two children were supposedly sleeping, and at around 9pm, Oldfield had listened at the bedroom shutter of 5a, when checking on the kids, so why did he listen at the patio door on the poolside of the building when he went back at 9:30pm?

Which route did O'Brien take?

O'Brien would have to use the door on the roadside of his apartment (5D) to check on his child, so he would be on the right side of the building to assist in the removal of Maddie from the apartment (5a), in my opinion...



Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 05, 2011, 11:48:PM
On the 9.30 check,Matthew Oldfield actually went in to the McCanns apartment via the unlocked patio door.He stood at the door to the childrens room and looked in.He saw the twins asleep in their travel cots,but didnt check Maddie as her bed was behind the door.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2011, 10:01:PM
On the 9.30 check,Matthew Oldfield actually went in to the McCanns apartment via the unlocked patio door.He stood at the door to the childrens room and looked in.He saw the twins asleep in their travel cots,but didnt check Maddie as her bed was behind the door.
-------------------

How strange, that when Kate McCann went to apartment 5a at about 10pm, she made the exact same error / mistake of not looking for Maddie when she opened the bedroom door...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 05:37:AM
I previously said that it was Russell O'Brien, who had a boating accident on the afternoon Maddie went missing, and that he went jogging with Kate, but I was mistaken, it was Mathew Oldfield who nearly drowned, and Mathew went jogging with Kate...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 06:12:AM
I detect a degree of jealousy, and animousity, between Mathew Oldfield and Gerry McCann, albeit it does appear to me, to have been one sided. Oldfield was staying in the next apartment (5B) to the McCanns, he is the person who was chasing Maddie around and she was shouting 'chase me, chase me, be a monster'...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 06:28:AM
Oldfield is the person who told pp, that on previous occasions during the holiday, how he had been eavesdropping when the McCanns were bathing the children...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 07:03:AM
Oldfield was the person, who instilled suspicion in the mind of Gerry MaCANN, at around 9pm, after Mathew Oldfield had been listening at the shutter of Maddies bedroom at apartment 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 01:31:PM
We now know that Oldfield gave two different versions about how he checked apartment 5a, at 9.30pm - in one version, he merely stood outside the patio door and listened for if the children were crying? Yet, in a second version of alleged events, he actually opened the patio door, and went inside, pausing at the bedroom door, without physically seeing Maddie in bed - these two conflicting accounts, alert me to the possibility that he initially did not want anyone to know he had been inside 5a, but if he had he must surely have suspected that his fingerprints and DNA would / could have been found there, and so he changed his story...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 01:55:PM
I very strongly believe that Mathew Oldfield's changing accounts, about whether or not he went into apartment 5a, is linked to Maddies disappearance that night. And that paved the way to temporarily give some credibility to Jane Tanners sighting of the  faceless man carrying off a child...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 07:12:PM
Jane Tanner, herself, is embroiled in this mystery, and plays an important part, be declaring at some late stage that she knew about the faceless man carrying off the child, but chose not to say anything to Maddie's parents because it might be too upsetting...

More like...

story introduced to deflect attention off the group, members who did play a role in Maddie's disappearance, sending the police in the opposite direction to the one she was actually taken...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 07:16:PM
Gerry McCann got in on the act too...

in his first statement, he said that when Kate left the "tapas bar" to go and check 5a, she went to the door on the roadside of the building, and used her key to let herself in. He later altered this account and said that in fact Kate had got into the premises via the patio door on the poolside of the building...

If Kate used her key to let herself in via the roadside door, she would have had to go past the shuttered bedroom window and she would have noticed that was open before she unlocked the door...

McCanns realized this from a very early stage and hence the change in Gerrys account....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2011, 08:27:PM
Only fingerprints found on window and shutters belonged to McCann parents...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 07, 2011, 11:53:PM
It looks very much like the abduction was faked.

I've delved into Jane Tanner's accounts about what she is supposed to have seen.

If she passed within one metre of Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins on her walk back to the apartments, and neither of them saw her - in a deserted street, then I can only conclude that she is making the whole thing up.

The PJ never believed a word of Tanner's about anything that went on that night.

With no mobile phones and watches ( according to O'Brien ) all of the times re. the checks were just pulled out of the air. I'm not even sure that they made a single check on the children between them, but just made it up to cover themselves of bad parenting. Perhaps the 'checks' were the removal of Maddie's body from Apartment 5A.





Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 08, 2011, 12:43:AM
Oh Mike, I'm sorry, but she'll never be found, will she? I have huge doubts about Gerry, he comes across as a very controlling man, and as long as he is in control, the investigation will not progress. Mike, such a tiny body will never be found.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 06:57:AM
Oh Mike, I'm sorry, but she'll never be found, will she? I have huge doubts about Gerry, he comes across as a very controlling man, and as long as he is in control, the investigation will not progress. Mike, such a tiny body will never be found.
... I think her remains will be found soon...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 08, 2011, 09:39:AM
Im not sure how true it is,but I read that Leicestershire Police are suspicious of the McCanns.I personally dont think that Kate is involved although when it happened she kind of acted and spoke almost as if she was grieving,as if  Maddie had died.Mike,do you think Maddie died by way of a sedative overdose?Kate tells in her book that the evening before Maddie went missing,whilst they were having their tea,that they went home because Maddie looked very pale and exhausted and was very quiet.Kate now wonders if she and the twins had been drugged.A long time ago,I remember being told that the men in the tapas group were part of a paedophile ring with links to Murat.Probably wild speculation but something that should definately have been looked in to.You are right about Oldfield.Two different stories,that is very suspicious!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 09:52:AM
One thing that strikes anyone who stays at the resort where the McCanns, thier children, and the other group members all stayed, is how the streets are deserted in the evenings. You could not help but notice a person walking or standing around in the street. If there were two people standing around, they would be even more noticeable. If one of these two people had a pushchair with a child in it, even more noticeable. If there had been a man carrying off a child in his arms, as claimed by JT, the others would have seen him, and vice versa. The problem with JT's story is that nobody saw her in the street at the time she said she was in the street, and nobody at all, saw the man carrying off the child, other than JT herself. What is also strange, is that if the JT sighting was genuine, then by the time she got up to he mouth of the junction (across which the man had been carrying the child in his arms) where exactly did this man with the child go? Since, once the man crossed the junction, he had a long way to walk before he got to a bend in the road, or the entrance to the next apartment block carpark - JT does not mention glancing her head to the right as she approached the jaws of the junction, to take another look at the man, who would not have had time to disappear from her view - if she had taken the time to look, she would have noticed whether or not the man carrying the child had walked one way or the other? I would suggest that she did not bother to look right at the road junction to see where the man carrying the child was, because there was no such sighting in the first instance...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 08, 2011, 09:57:AM
I have to agree with you there.Along with many others,including the police,I totally believe that Tanners sighting was bogus,and was simply to deflect attention away from the tapas group.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 05:47:PM
Im not sure how true it is,but I read that Leicestershire Police are suspicious of the McCanns.I personally dont think that Kate is involved although when it happened she kind of acted and spoke almost as if she was grieving,as if  Maddie had died.Mike,do you think Maddie died by way of a sedative overdose?Kate tells in her book that the evening before Maddie went missing,whilst they were having their tea,that they went home because Maddie looked very pale and exhausted and was very quiet.Kate now wonders if she and the twins had been drugged.A long time ago,I remember being told that the men in the tapas group were part of a paedophile ring with links to Murat.Probably wild speculation but something that should definately have been looked in to.You are right about Oldfield.Two different stories,that is very suspicious!
------------------

I am with you in your ideas...

Was Maddie being drugged by a member, or members of the group?

Mathew Oldfield certainly took an interest in the McCann family, and in particular, Maddie...

"Chase me, chase me, be a monster", springs to mind...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 08, 2011, 06:17:PM
Mike, with 'Ali Bongo' exposed as a fake... where does that leave the theory about the recreational drugs? That theory must have come from somewhere. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 06:26:PM
Mike, with 'Ali Bongo' exposed as a fake... where does that leave the theory about the recreational drugs? That theory must have come from somewhere.
-------------

My own theory...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 08, 2011, 08:07:PM
I know this sounds far-fetched and disgusting,but I dont think it is a coincidence that( the holiday party invited by the Paynes),that all the children except one,consisted of girls.I think it is possible that the children were being drugged by a couple of the men,in order to be abused.I think it very odd how Oldfield insisted on checking on the McCann children and by the next check Maddie was gone.I believe that the tapas friends silence pact stems from the fact that they all have something to hide,that if discovered would result in them all losing their careers,and their children.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 08:15:PM
I know this sounds far-fetched and disgusting,but I dont think it is a coincidence that( the holiday party invited by the Paynes),that all the children except one,consisted of girls.I think it is possible that the children were being drugged by a couple of the men,in order to be abused.I think it very odd how Oldfield insisted on checking on the McCann children and by the next check Maddie was gone.I believe that the tapas friends silence pact stems from the fact that they all have something to hide,that if discovered would result in them all losing their careers,and their children.
------------------

What - and go to prison for a very long time indeed?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 08, 2011, 08:30:PM
The aspect of Tanner's sighting that baffles me the most is that she mentions passing Gerry / Jez / Toddler...she could have just said what she saw while she was on her own.

The re-construction of Tanner's sighting was vital to this case.

I tried to contact Jeremy Wilkins today at Zig Zag Productions in London, but was told he left the company two weeks ago.

I just wanted to ask him if he thought Tanner was making up the story for myself.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2011, 09:31:PM
The aspect of Tanner's sighting that baffles me the most is that she mentions passing Gerry / Jez / Toddler...she could have just said what she saw while she was on her own.

The re-construction of Tanner's sighting was vital to this case.

I tried to contact Jeremy Wilkins today at Zig Zag Productions in London, but was told he left the company two weeks ago.

I just wanted to ask him if he thought Tanner was making up the story for myself.
-------------------

What I don't get about the alleged abduction by this man, or other, is the route he allegedly took after kidnapping Maddie from 5a, because what does the man do once he gets his hands on poor little Maddie, he walks out onto the car park at the rear of 5a, then out of the entrance and he turns downhill in the direction of the road junction, in immediate peril of bumping into the McCann parents or other group members who could be returning at a moments notice - well, if there was an abductor and he had been watching the routine of the group members with a view to taking a child like Maddie, he would have known of the very strong likelihood that someone or other would or might be returning to their apartment blocks at any moment or time, so I think such an abductor, if there was one would have turned right, up the hill in the opposite direction to the road junction, across which JT allegedly saw the man carrying off the child...

I don't believe Tanners account one bit...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on June 08, 2011, 09:34:PM
those children should NOT have been left on their own. had an adult been with them maddie would still be here, simple as that.

Pleeeeeeaaase......do you have children Andrea and if you do, did you never ever leave them on their own?




absolutley NOT NO, i hope you wouldnt leave your kids on their own either. had they had adult supervision maddie would still be here, its not rocket science is it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 08, 2011, 10:24:PM
I make you absolutely right andrea   +1
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on June 09, 2011, 08:31:AM
I make you absolutely right andrea   +1



thanks tyler have +1 back  :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 09, 2011, 01:12:PM
Agreed Mike, on the apparent unlikely route taken by the 'abductor' - a re-investigation should concentrate fully and in detail re. Jane Tanner's 'sighting'.

If she is lying then it seems certain that she and other members of the Tapas 9 were involved.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2011, 01:51:PM
Agreed Mike, on the apparent unlikely route taken by the 'abductor' - a re-investigation should concentrate fully and in detail re. Jane Tanner's 'sighting'.

If she is lying then it seems certain that she and other members of the Tapas 9 were involved.
... Do you think Jane Tanner should be hypnotically regressed?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 09, 2011, 02:08:PM
Agreed Mike, on the apparent unlikely route taken by the 'abductor' - a re-investigation should concentrate fully and in detail re. Jane Tanner's 'sighting'.

If she is lying then it seems certain that she and other members of the Tapas 9 were involved.
... Do you think Jane Tanner should be hypnotically regressed?

I think she should be arrested for wasting police time   ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 09, 2011, 05:03:PM
Mike - that sounds like a great idea, reading through the transcripts of Tanner's extended interviews at Leicestershire Constabulary she must have clocked up over one thousand er's and um's.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 09, 2011, 07:50:PM
Agreed Mike, on the apparent unlikely route taken by the 'abductor' - a re-investigation should concentrate fully and in detail re. Jane Tanner's 'sighting'.

If she is lying then it seems certain that she and other members of the Tapas 9 were involved.
... Do you think Jane Tanner should be hypnotically regressed?




I understand that she was.  Not sure if this was when she described the colour of the child's pyjamas as being pink etc, which would have been impossible to make out due to the orange street lighting.

Have you ever read her statements?  This woman cannot string a simple sentence together!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 09, 2011, 08:44:PM
Aside from the Tapas 9 statements, one statement I've always found intriguing is one made by another holidaymaker at the time, Stephen Carpenter, who says that he, his wife and children left the Tapas Bar between 9.15 and 9.30 and his wife heard someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", as they crossed the road to get to their apartment.

This is 30 - 45 mins before Kate raised the 'official' alarm.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 09, 2011, 08:55:PM
Kate McCann likewise, has never been able to speak freely and opening without numerous pauses and deep breaths.

I heard a few months ago from a friend with a contact in Downing Street ( former body guard to Gordon Brown ) that the family were involved in some way - but no detail,  just that Madeleine may have died in the apartment.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 09, 2011, 09:21:PM
Is it true that Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty on condition Dr Amaral was taken off the case?

Why was Gordon Brown was involved with the case from the beginning?  Gerry McCann said he had given them his private telephone number and they could phone him day or night. Gordon Brown also said publicly, that he was speaking to the Portuguese Prime Minister about the case.  Did Gordon Brown have enough power, to persuade someone with enough power in the Portuguese Government, to overrule the PJ and allow the McCanns to walk free?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 09, 2011, 09:49:PM
Is it true that Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty on condition Dr Amaral was taken off the case?

Why Gordon Brown was involved with the case from the beginning?  Gerry McCann said he had given them his private telephone number and they could phone him day or night. Gordon Brown also said publicly, that he was speaking to the Portuguese Prime Minister about the case.  Did Gordon Brown have enough power, to persuade someone with enough power in the Portuguese Government, to overrule the PJ and allow the McCanns to walk free?

Somewhere along the line, and perhaps at the highest level, information on this case may have been supressed. The McCann's used the political and media machines from the very beginning - initially to their advantage, until it all backfired.

As I understand it, the DNA results from the hire car did indeed indicate that there was a link to Madeleine's body, or perhaps, contact with her body from Gerry or Kate or both, being present. I believe that hair strands from Madeleine pretty much proved that there was contact with her parents several hours after death.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 09, 2011, 10:27:PM
Is it true that Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty on condition Dr Amaral was taken off the case?

Why Gordon Brown was involved with the case from the beginning?  Gerry McCann said he had given them his private telephone number and they could phone him day or night. Gordon Brown also said publicly, that he was speaking to the Portuguese Prime Minister about the case.  Did Gordon Brown have enough power, to persuade someone with enough power in the Portuguese Government, to overrule the PJ and allow the McCanns to walk free?

Somewhere along the line, and perhaps at the highest level, information on this case may have been supressed. The McCann's used the political and media machines from the very beginning - initially to their advantage, until it all backfired.

As I understand it, the DNA results from the hire car did indeed indicate that there was a link to Madeleine's body, or perhaps, contact with her body from Gerry or Kate or both, being present. I believe that hair strands from Madeleine pretty much proved that there was contact with her parents several hours after death.

Sparks, how can that be weighed up with the approach to Cameron? You'd think someone in the higher echelons would politely say to the McCann's 'look... just let it lie'. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 09, 2011, 10:30:PM
God, you think that the JB case is tough, until you start considering this one.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on June 09, 2011, 11:52:PM
God, you think that the JB case is tough, until you start considering this one.






i know shona, i havent ever really studied this case, reading all this i dont think ill bother!! ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 10, 2011, 07:39:AM
For Rochford - Hi end free masons may have more power than the political machine.

There is something in this entire saga that strikes me as some kind of a cover up.

Knowing how some police work, they may have continued to monitor members of the Tapas 9 along with Robert Murat and associates to this very day.

One thing I'm pretty much sure of, everything Kate McCann said and did suggested to me that she knew Madeleine died that night.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 10, 2011, 12:58:PM
For Rochford - Hi end free masons may have more power than the political machine.

There is something in this entire saga that strikes me as some kind of a cover up.

Knowing how some police work, they may have continued to monitor members of the Tapas 9 along with Robert Murat and associates to this very day.

One thing I'm pretty much sure of, everything Kate McCann said and did suggested to me that she knew Madeleine died that night.

Thanks for your view Sparks. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 10, 2011, 07:48:PM

Did Gerry have his priorities right?  Re photo of Madeleine showing the coloboma in her eye:

Quote: Carlos Anjos, Polícia Judiciária: "If that situation had been of an abduction, it would have been terrible for the child. Because if that child were to be sold, or something else... She was as good as... it was her death sentence. That situation, that day, advertising that photo, was simply the death sentence of that child."

Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."

Words fail me.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 10, 2011, 08:26:PM
An excerpt of Jane Tanner's rogatory interview describing the 'abductor':


JT: But, I mean, I think... so the things that I'm happy; that are still in my head... that still stick in my head, is the hair and it was longer... it was sort of longish and, errm... I don't know how to (inaudible)... but each... each... almost the hair was long... the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in... when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it's shaved; not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each... each individual hair was long, errm... and dark; it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head. And, sort of... the dark... dark clothes and quite billowy; not billowy clothes but quite baggy, sort of... they seemed, errm... not ill fitting but quite baggy clothes, like... not jeans, but trousers, sort of... not Chinos but not Farrahs either but sort of baggy'ish, sort of, ill fitting more than... And they're the bits that I remember quite vividly, sort of.

?!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 10, 2011, 09:23:PM
WTF?    ???
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 10, 2011, 09:44:PM
An excerpt of Jane Tanner's rogatory interview describing the 'abductor':


JT: But, I mean, I think... so the things that I'm happy; that are still in my head... that still stick in my head, is the hair and it was longer... it was sort of longish and, errm... I don't know how to (inaudible)... but each... each... almost the hair was long... the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in... when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it's shaved; not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each... each individual hair was long, errm... and dark; it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head. And, sort of... the dark... dark clothes and quite billowy; not billowy clothes but quite baggy, sort of... they seemed, errm... not ill fitting but quite baggy clothes, like... not jeans, but trousers, sort of... not Chinos but not Farrahs either but sort of baggy'ish, sort of, ill fitting more than... And they're the bits that I remember quite vividly, sort of.


?!

Indeed, complete nonsense from Tanner...and then, she matches this description up to clean cut Robert Murat!

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 10, 2011, 10:03:PM
When people lie, they always seem to put in far too much detail.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 10, 2011, 10:46:PM
The results from Eddie and Keela seem to indicate that Madeleine fell to her death off the settee by the window. Both blood and death odour found in same area ( if I am reading the reports correctly ). This would suggest that Madeleine may have died shorty after the McCann's went to the Tapas.

I am still backing a sleep sedative in Madeliene's case and possibly all of the children in the party.

Madeliene still awoke, that is, if she was ever asleep, was drowsy and dizzy, and maybe fell as a result.

This might explain the Tapas 9 'pact'.

Even before the dogs had been alerted from the UK the PJ had come up with the same theory.

Could Kate have discovered Madeliene missing from her bed, then found her body behind the sofa?

I wonder if she may even have confided in someone initially other than Gerry.

A death in these circumstances would have focused attention on all other members of the group and made a mockery of their claims on checking the children. Listening at the door would not have been much use with Madeleine laying dead.

Kate's first words included 'She' gone' and 'We let her down'.

After all the stuff I've covered on this case I'm beginning to believe that it was Kate who found the body.





Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 10, 2011, 10:49:PM
Eddie and Keela, Saprks?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 10, 2011, 10:50:PM
Sorry. Sparks.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 10, 2011, 11:18:PM
I don't think there were any visual checks on Madeleine by anyone until Kate found her dead.

Gerry alludes to going back to use the bathroom, Matt Oldfield only accounts for the twins.

Kate was asked if Madeleine was asleep when she last saw her. That was a very telling question by the interviewer.

At this, Kate struggles with her answer.

I think all the answers everyone needs are there in the cryptic replies from Gerry and Kate throughout the many interviews.

They are having to think very carefully about how they answer. I do not believe this has only come from the briefings by their PR advisors.

Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner may have concocked the smokescreen between them, namely the sickness of their child, and the bogus sighting of the abductor.

Too much seems to be happening around 10pm. Too much centres on O'Brien and Tanner.

And of course, Kate may have given the game away by leaving the twins in their beds with an abductor around.




Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: joolz1975 on June 11, 2011, 09:15:AM
Eddie and Keela, Saprks?

Shona eddie & Kiela were the South Yorkshire Police sniffer dogs sent over to help with the investigation, one was highly trained to find even the tiniest speck of blood, the other (think it was Eddie) was a cadaver dog trained to smell the scent of a corpse.

Apparantly the Mcanns car (hired 3 weeks after Madeleines dissapearence) was placed in a line up with other cars and the cadaver dog immediatly went to their car and indicated that the boot had previously had a cadaver in it, in Kate Mcanns book she dismisses this as hte dog been subconciously led to the car by its handler, and the handler himself does admit that the dog sniffing out a scent is not conclusive evidence that a corspe was there it has to be backed up with 'real' evidence!

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 11, 2011, 11:45:AM
Sparks,your theory is a good one.But at what stage could Kate have found Maddie dead? Not on the 10pm check because that is when she alerted the tapas group that Maddie was "missing" and they all came running.Surely her body would have been disposed of by then? And Mikes theory (I think) that Maddie was taken down to the beach area is possible,but Im sure sniffer dogs traced Maddies scent to the supermarket,but no further?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 11, 2011, 01:52:PM
Hello Tyler...I still think the 10pm check ( phone call to PJ not until 30 plus minutes later?? ) is possible, death odour only kicks in after about 90 minutes I believe. It's a wild guess - but maybe the body was hidden nearby in the first few minutes - possibly by Kate McCann.

Some believe the body was then being taken somewhere else by a member of the group.

The Carpenter statement is very interesting re. 'Madeleine, Madeleine' - and this around the time she may have been discovered.

I may be way off the mark with my theories, but I would not be looking any further than the Tapas 9 and the cover up of an accidental death.

There seems to be a 30 minute vacuum around 10pm when all the timings were scrambled - surely the PJ would have been contacted a couple of minutes after 10pm if this is when Madeleine was discovered missing.

I also believe Gerry McCann was actually seen tampering with the shutters of Apartment 5a around 10pm.

They certainly only had the McCann's fingerprints on them.


Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 11, 2011, 04:45:PM
Kate and Gerry response to arrival of police at apartment 5a, of Maddie's disappearance?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 11, 2011, 04:47:PM
Kate and Gerry response to arrival of police at apartment 5a, of Maddie's disappearance?

Amarals' book mentions this but I thought it referred to Gerry only.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 11, 2011, 05:00:PM
Kate and Gerry response to arrival of police at apartment 5a, of Maddie's disappearance?

Amarals' book mentions this but I thought it referred to Gerry only.
------------------

Gerry at first, followed by Kate, so they both ended up doing this together side by side...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 11, 2011, 05:06:PM
Kate and Gerry response to arrival of police at apartment 5a, of Maddie's disappearance?

Amarals' book mentions this but I thought it referred to Gerry only.
------------------

Gerry at first, followed by Kate, so they both ended up doing this together side by side...

Could be interpreted as an involuntary act of contrition / penance...  A harrowing moment for certain.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 11, 2011, 09:23:PM
I read the image of Gerry and Kate as nothing other than a response to the death of Madeleine.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 11, 2011, 09:46:PM
Sorry guys - did Kate and Gerry throw themselves onto the bed? Am I being dim?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on June 11, 2011, 09:46:PM
I don't think there were any visual checks on Madeleine by anyone until Kate found her dead.

Gerry alludes to going back to use the bathroom, Matt Oldfield only accounts for the twins.

Kate was asked if Madeleine was asleep when she last saw her. That was a very telling question by the interviewer.

At this, Kate struggles with her answer.

I think all the answers everyone needs are there in the cryptic replies from Gerry and Kate throughout the many interviews.

They are having to think very carefully about how they answer. I do not believe this has only come from the briefings by their PR advisors.

Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner may have concocked the smokescreen between them, namely the sickness of their child, and the bogus sighting of the abductor.

Too much seems to be happening around 10pm. Too much centres on O'Brien and Tanner.

And of course, Kate may have given the game away by leaving the twins in their beds with an abductor around.

What do you mean "Kate found her dead"? What evidence do you have to support that phrase?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 11, 2011, 11:19:PM
Does anyone know where I can view Carpenters statement? I cant find it on the maddiefiles   :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 12, 2011, 02:07:PM
Does anyone know where I can view Carpenters statement? I cant find it on the maddiefiles   :(




www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk

click on the 'original dvd images' box.
Halfway down it says 'cartas rogatorias'  you want file 3, 31-56
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on June 12, 2011, 07:59:PM
did kate answer all questions until they made her a suspect? was it then she gave a no comment interview? would that have been on the advice of her solicitor?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 12, 2011, 08:34:PM
did kate answer all questions until they made her a suspect? was it then she gave a no comment interview? would that have been on the advice of her solicitor?

That is an interesting question Andrea.

Here is one that i have my self.  If the McCann's / Tapas 9 do know what really happened: Isn't it remarkable that that they shifted from discovery... to conferring ...to action / reaction... to conferring again... before finally contacting PJ?  Now, several things bother me about this scenario.  What kind of time-frame are we looking at for this to have happened in?  Talk about having to think on your feet!  These people are highly intelligent individuals.  Each must have known from the off, that attempting to fool the police by concocting an alternative sequence of events could fall prey to a thousand pitfalls, under close examination by professional investigators.  Is it possible to create a credible alternative sequence of events in a short time-frame?  If this is what indeed took place between them, then whatever actually happened to Madeleine must have been something that could potentially have had very serious consequences for several of that party of individuals.  Since there does not seem to have been a weak link among any of that party.

Perhaps there were dissenters among them, as the drama unfolded?  But if there were, they must have been brought round with a 'no turning back' type of pact, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: andrea on June 12, 2011, 09:18:PM
hi roch, i havent actually studied this case, i only know the basics so im not in a position to be able to answer your question as i just dont know enough about the whole thing. :)

all i know is ...had them children (who were very young) had adult supervision at ALL times then that little girl would still be here, you just dont leave kids, especially of that age, alone.

half hourly checks just isnt good enough, as poor maddie found out.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 12, 2011, 09:29:PM
I don't think there were any visual checks on Madeleine by anyone until Kate found her dead.

Gerry alludes to going back to use the bathroom, Matt Oldfield only accounts for the twins.

Kate was asked if Madeleine was asleep when she last saw her. That was a very telling question by the interviewer.

At this, Kate struggles with her answer.

I think all the answers everyone needs are there in the cryptic replies from Gerry and Kate throughout the many interviews.

They are having to think very carefully about how they answer. I do not believe this has only come from the briefings by their PR advisors.

Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner may have concocked the smokescreen between them, namely the sickness of their child, and the bogus sighting of the abductor.

Too much seems to be happening around 10pm. Too much centres on O'Brien and Tanner.

And of course, Kate may have given the game away by leaving the twins in their beds with an abductor around.

What do you mean "Kate found her dead"? What evidence do you have to support that phrase?

No evidence Bob, but I've read through a mass of interviews by the McCann's - and reading between the lines, they appear to admit (1),  that she died that night, and ( 2 ), that they were not directly responsible for her death.

I'm still going along with the PJ on this - they firmly believe that Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5a somewhere around 20.30 that night.

My personal contacts in Portugal who have worked on the case also believed Madeleine died around 20.30. They go even further than that, saying that her body was refrigerated for a number of weeks with assistance from members of The Catholic Church. Little wonder that The Pope was cold towards the McCann's.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 13, 2011, 11:09:PM
HMESSEX, thank you for the link that you posted as I didnt know about that site.Had a little trouble trying to translate it as all in portugese until I realised it could be viewed in English also! What am I like ?    :-[
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: newsman on June 13, 2011, 11:16:PM
I received the attached file today via email with a subject of "MADELINE McCANN - don't question - just forward - it only needs one ..."

asking to pass it on to everyone I know, If anyone wants to download the pdf file attached to this and send it on you never know.

All the best.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 17, 2011, 09:18:PM
The one thing that just about everyone in the UK and Portugal seems to agree on - and probably The Pope too, is that Gerry McCann is a ******* ****!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 17, 2011, 10:52:PM
Look on You Tube 'Gerry Mccann is happy'.

Taken few days after Madeleine was 'taken'.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Sparkfilms on June 18, 2011, 07:56:AM
Look on You Tube 'Gerry Mccann is happy'.

Taken few days after Madeleine was 'taken'.

Thanx - just watched.

McCann is beyond belief. Laughing all the way to the bank I imagine.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 18, 2011, 02:04:PM
Yes,I watched it too.Really bizzare.For anyone that has not seen it,the following is a pretty interesting site    Joana-Morais.blogspot.com
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Tyler on June 18, 2011, 04:43:PM
Mike,wherever you are,I hope that you are feeling well.
Can I ask,regarding the blood spots found on the wall inside the  McCanns apartment,I have read that 7 out of 9 markers matched Maddies Dna.Do you know if this is true?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 18, 2011, 06:01:PM
DNA markers proved blood in the boot of the hire car and a sample from a windowsill in the apartment belonged to Madeleine - 15 markers out of 19. In the UK (where? the system was devised) a person can be convicted on as low as 10, it's just Portuguese law requires all 19, before they can prosecute.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 19, 2011, 01:00:PM
DNA markers proved blood in the boot of the hire car and a sample from a windowsill in the apartment belonged to Madeleine - 15 markers out of 19. In the UK (where? the system was devised) a person can be convicted on as low as 10, it's just Portuguese law requires all 19, before they can prosecute.

Very interesting.  Is this mentioned in 'Truth of the Lie'? Or do you please have another link to any further info?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 19, 2011, 01:08:PM
HMESSEX, thanks for that info.You seem to have studied the case quite in depth.Can you tell me what you think happened with Maddie?Do you think the parents are involved? Obviously alot of people believe she was accidently overdosed by way of sedatives administered by her parents,but cant seem to fathom how that fits with the scenario of her blood being allegdly found up the walls,near the sofa etc.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 21, 2011, 09:08:PM
HMESSEX, thanks for that info.You seem to have studied the case quite in depth.Can you tell me what you think happened with Maddie?Do you think the parents are involved? Obviously alot of people believe she was accidently overdosed by way of sedatives administered by her parents,but cant seem to fathom how that fits with the scenario of her blood being allegdly found up the walls,near the sofa etc.




Hi Tyler, I honestly can't work this out. 

I've been reading about this for couple of years with all the theories out there. The sedation scenario is possibly more likely.  Madeleine was known for waking up and going to her parents room at home, and which she did on holiday.  In one of the Tapas' statements, Fiona says on the night Madeleine disappeared Kate kept checking the twins' breathing, which she thought strange, and Kate didn't allow samples of the twins' hair to be analysed until about three months later.

I try really hard to hope that the parents were not involved, but then I see stuff like the "Gerry is Happy" clip, the fact that the shutters were not jemmied as was stated initially, the dogs' evidence, the silly timelines written (twice) on the night, Jane Tanners' laughable descriptions of an abductor, the publication of the photo of her eye which they were advised not to do, barring the fact that this was when she was much younger and they now say was just a fleck, the parents asking for a priest on the night she disappeared, and the priest at the church in PDL where they had keys saying he was deceived.  I could go on.....

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 22, 2011, 06:02:AM
Thanks for your thoughts on the case.I dont know if you have read Kates book,but she states in it that even she feels that Maddie and the twins had been drugged.But by an abductor.That is interesting because by stating this,if it could ever be proved,she has in effect,shifted the blame.Maybe that is as near to a confession that we are ever going to get!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 22, 2011, 06:05:AM
Oh,and she writes that whenever she returns to Portugal,she always goes and sits by those rocks at that remote part of the beach.Those same rocks that she kept going off to after Maddie went missing.I think that is rather significant.I will have to ask Mike if that is anywhere near that drain that he is so suspicious about.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: karen on June 22, 2011, 01:07:PM
Not to mention the statements from the Gaspars, Fenn and Smiths. Pat Perkins phone call on the night. Tapas 7's insistence on Murat's guilt and refusal to take part in a reconstruction. Gerry deleting his text messages.

Either the Tapas 7 are colluding and lying or everyone else (including Eddie and Keela) are colluding and lying.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 22, 2011, 01:43:PM
when I was in Portugal, locals were discussing a number of sightings of a man acting oddly on wastland, near the 'Jesus statue' close to the apartment from where Maddie went missing - iocal rumours suggest that this man, was non other than Gerry McCann. He was seen acting suspiciously in that vicinity on the night Maddie went missing, and according to local gossip, he was seen hanging around there on several occasions, at different times, mostly when it was dark...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Jerry on June 23, 2011, 08:33:AM
I didn't know you spoke Portuguese Mike?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 23, 2011, 11:44:AM
I've been watching whatever I could find on Youtube, and I get the overwhelming impression that Kate is intimidated by, perhaps even frightened of Gerry.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 23, 2011, 05:46:PM
Not to mention the statements from the Gaspars, Fenn and Smiths. Pat Perkins phone call on the night. Tapas 7's insistence on Murat's guilt and refusal to take part in a reconstruction. Gerry deleting his text messages.

Either the Tapas 7 are colluding and lying or everyone else (including Eddie and Keela) are colluding and lying.

Karen I haven't read Kate's book and not sure I will.  I'm pretty sure Amaral, Eddie & Keela will have solved the likelihood of Maddie having died with the knowledge of parent/s and friends.  Then there's people like Mike Tesco and Sparkfilms who have looked fairly close in to this also.  I dont really see anything from investigative / journo types who are pro-McCann / pro-abduction.  Maybe I should read Kate's book though, to get her version?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 23, 2011, 10:16:PM
I've been watching whatever I could find on Youtube, and I get the overwhelming impression that Kate is intimidated by, perhaps even frightened of Gerry.

I got that impression too Shona.Especially from the clip where Gerry doesnt like the question put to him,rips off his mic and storms off.Kate looks really uncomfortable and shaken.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 23, 2011, 11:31:PM
That's the one that did it for me, Tyler!! Kate made some lame, worried excuse about Gerry being too hot. She looked tense and closed-down, like she was used to apologising for him. That fixed expression on her face - sorry to sound wanky but that's how horses look like when they are genuinely frightened.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: smiffy on June 24, 2011, 07:38:AM
I , too, have seen that video in which Gerry reacts.
Very telling ...but on its own ...not enough to convince me of guilt...but when the rest of the available evidence is considered.....its not innocent!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 24, 2011, 07:46:AM
Smiffy,Shona commented on how Kate seems a little intimidated and even frightened of Gerry,especially in that video clip.He definately seems to be the one "wearing the trousers" in that relationship dont you think?I get the impression with the whole case,that Kate seems to be suffering from grief,and Gerry from guilt.Does he know something that she doesnt? Or does she know and is too frightened of him to reveal the truth and is burying her head in the sand?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 24, 2011, 05:33:PM
Smiffy,Shona commented on how Kate seems a little intimidated and even frightened of Gerry,especially in that video clip.He definately seems to be the one "wearing the trousers" in that relationship dont you think?I get the impression with the whole case,that Kate seems to be suffering from grief,and Gerry from guilt.Does he know something that she doesnt? Or does she know and is too frightened of him to reveal the truth and is burying her head in the sand?

I am still drawn back to their approach though.  For them to exisit in the situation you have suggested above would imply that there is a game of concealment going on.  I am of this belief as well.

But how on earth could they have the gall to play this out to the extent where they're writing letters to Dave Cameron and pushing for Scotland Yard to reopen the investigation?  That kind of bluffing game could only be persued by a person or persons of immense self belief.  Like some kind of narcissitic 'superior' mind?  A person or persons who believe that their best interests lie not in remaining quiet and low profile... but in taking on people at the highest level and upping the stakes?  Pitting themselves against Prime Ministers and detectives?  It's all a bit odd... (if they do know what happened).
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: clifford on June 24, 2011, 05:46:PM
Smiffy,Shona commented on how Kate seems a little intimidated and even frightened of Gerry,especially in that video clip.He definately seems to be the one "wearing the trousers" in that relationship dont you think?I get the impression with the whole case,that Kate seems to be suffering from grief,and Gerry from guilt.Does he know something that she doesnt? Or does she know and is too frightened of him to reveal the truth and is burying her head in the sand?

I am still drawn back to their approach though.  For them to exisit in the situation you have suggested above would imply that there is a game of concealment going on.  I am of this belief as well.

But how on earth could they have the gall to play this out to the extent where they're writing letters to Dave Cameron and pushing for Scotland Yard to reopen the investigation?  That kind of bluffing game could only be persued by a person or persons of immense self belief.  Like some kind of narcissitic 'superior' mind?  A person or persons who believe that their best interests lie not in remaining quiet and low profile... but in taking on people at the highest level and upping the stakes?  Pitting themselves against Prime Ministers and detectives?  It's all a bit odd... (if they do know what happened).
This really is a strange case. Thousands of kids must have been to this resort with no problems.
I would have thought that many would have left there children thinking they were safe, after all they were not far away.
Something is not right here. there is a saying that goes you protest to much.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 24, 2011, 08:30:PM
Smiffy,Shona commented on how Kate seems a little intimidated and even frightened of Gerry,especially in that video clip.He definately seems to be the one "wearing the trousers" in that relationship dont you think?I get the impression with the whole case,that Kate seems to be suffering from grief,and Gerry from guilt.Does he know something that she doesnt? Or does she know and is too frightened of him to reveal the truth and is burying her head in the sand?




I wonder if this is all part of an act.  Ok, Kate wasn't expecting him to walk out like that and looked bewildered, but as we are onto video clips, how about the one 'The McCanns show their true colours - MUST SEE'.  Kate has her sad face, whilst clutching Gerry's hand, and as usual he does most of the talking, but as soon as the interview is over they are both all smiley.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 24, 2011, 08:49:PM
Smiffy,Shona commented on how Kate seems a little intimidated and even frightened of Gerry,especially in that video clip.He definately seems to be the one "wearing the trousers" in that relationship dont you think?I get the impression with the whole case,that Kate seems to be suffering from grief,and Gerry from guilt.Does he know something that she doesnt? Or does she know and is too frightened of him to reveal the truth and is burying her head in the sand?

I am still drawn back to their approach though.  For them to exisit in the situation you have suggested above would imply that there is a game of concealment going on.  I am of this belief as well.

But how on earth could they have the gall to play this out to the extent where they're writing letters to Dave Cameron and pushing for Scotland Yard to reopen the investigation?  That kind of bluffing game could only be persued by a person or persons of immense self belief.  Like some kind of narcissitic 'superior' mind?  A person or persons who believe that their best interests lie not in remaining quiet and low profile... but in taking on people at the highest level and upping the stakes?  Pitting themselves against Prime Ministers and detectives?  It's all a bit odd... (if they do know what happened).




Rochy, it's interesting that you suggest narcissism as this aspect (of Gerry especially), has been brought up quite a lot in forums regarding this.  Amongst some of the comments is one by Pat Brown, Criminal Profiler, on the 'McCannfiles.com'.

I reckon Gerry sees himself as some kind of celebrity.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: karen on June 24, 2011, 11:11:PM
It is a strange stategy they've employed, letters to Cameron etc. but it is a strategy that has paid off.

Whenever I express my doubts about the McCann version, people will inevitably say, "oh, but they've pushed to get the investigation reopened so they must be innocent".

Remember way back at the start when they were hobnobbing with Gordon Brown and the Pope? When they were made arguido, if they'd been arrested, big embarassment for those VIPs who supported them.

Throw into that Gerry's "ask the dogs" and "find the body" comments. He can say these things because he knows he's got away with it. Narcissism.

Notice the correlations with the Lindbergh baby?

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 25, 2011, 09:45:AM
Not to mention the statements from the Gaspars, Fenn and Smiths. Pat Perkins phone call on the night. Tapas 7's insistence on Murat's guilt and refusal to take part in a reconstruction. Gerry deleting his text messages.
Either the Tapas 7 are colluding and lying or everyone else (including Eddie and Keela) are colluding and lying.

Deleted text messages can be retrieved can't they?  There is software for this I think.  I wonder whether this was considered by the PJ?  We all delete text messages of course, at some point.  But deleting text messages in the aftermath of Maddie's disappearence?  :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 25, 2011, 10:32:AM
In the pic Mike posted,further back in the thread,(Gerry & Kate kneeling on the bed) it looks to me like Gerry is wearing beige coloured trousers.He had stated that he was wearing jeans,but didnt state what colour (unless I missed it).As we know,jeans are avaliable in all colours and are not always denim.Some are lightweight cotton style which I can imagine are cooler to wear in hot countries.Does anyone else think it looks as though he is wearing beige coloured trousers?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 25, 2011, 10:38:AM
In the pic Mike posted,further back in the thread,(Gerry & Kate kneeling on the bed) it looks to me like Gerry is wearing beige coloured trousers.He had stated that he was wearing jeans,but didnt state what colour (unless I missed it).As we know,jeans are avaliable in all colours and are not always denim.Some are lightweight cotton style which I can imagine are cooler to wear in hot countries.Does anyone else think it looks as though he is wearing beige coloured trousers?

I thought that pic was a reconstruction?  ???
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 25, 2011, 12:52:PM
In the pic Mike posted,further back in the thread,(Gerry & Kate kneeling on the bed) it looks to me like Gerry is wearing beige coloured trousers.He had stated that he was wearing jeans,but didnt state what colour (unless I missed it).As we know,jeans are avaliable in all colours and are not always denim.Some are lightweight cotton style which I can imagine are cooler to wear in hot countries.Does anyone else think it looks as though he is wearing beige coloured trousers?

I thought that pic was a reconstruction?  ???
Is it? omg,how thick am I   :-[
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 25, 2011, 12:57:PM
In the pic Mike posted,further back in the thread,(Gerry & Kate kneeling on the bed) it looks to me like Gerry is wearing beige coloured trousers.He had stated that he was wearing jeans,but didnt state what colour (unless I missed it).As we know,jeans are avaliable in all colours and are not always denim.Some are lightweight cotton style which I can imagine are cooler to wear in hot countries.Does anyone else think it looks as though he is wearing beige coloured trousers?

I thought that pic was a reconstruction?  ???
Is it? omg,how thick am I   :-[

Wonder who the models were?  The couple from next balcony along to Mike's?   ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 25, 2011, 01:10:PM
ha ha  ;D

looked at the photos of items of clothing that the pj removed from McCanns apartment,but did not see any mens trousers at all, only what looked like tennis shorts.Im sure Gerry wouldnt have gone out to dinner in those   :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 25, 2011, 10:28:PM
Please visit following link address:-

(1) http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: shonapugs on June 29, 2011, 09:51:PM
I wonder if the McCanns will give it, say, five years of media profile, knowing her poor little body went out to sea, then quietly let it all fade away and get on with their lives?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on June 30, 2011, 12:08:PM
i still cant believe the mcanns had anything to do with it.

i dont believe they could have done that and got away with it with the entire world watching them.

how would a tourist know where to dispose of body.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: karen on July 01, 2011, 11:53:AM
Sure, it's hard to believe. I struggle myself sometimes.

However, if they had nothing to with it, why would they be so obstructive and uncooperative with the investigation?

The McCanns and the Tapas gang were happy to assist the police when pointing the finger at Murat, the PJ only became incompetent, lazy and shoddy once the McCanns were suspected.

The media frenzy was not immediate, in the early days Kate and Gerry carried on jogging etc. and apart from a pre-arranged stroll-with-the-twins-in-pushchair photocall, usually in the afternoon, the media kept a respectful distance from the anguished parents.

The entire world was not watching and when they were being observed, well........lugging around hold-alls that they later denied owning, dumping fridges, leaving the car boot open overnight (same car boot alerted to by dogs) etc. etc.

Washing cuddle cat? The last thing your daughter cuddled? Her clothes? Losing her scent forever, why?

If your child had been abducted and you were told cadaver dogs had reacted to the apartment , car etc.
Would you say, "OMG, does that mean she could be dead?' or would you start dismissing the dogs, talking about rotten meat and dirty nappies being transported in the car and claiming to have been in contact with several dead patients the week before in your capacity as GP six hours a week?

If they had nothing to do with it why not answer the PJ's questions? She's just written a book and she didn't answer them in that either.

I know Amaral's theory sounds fanciful and far fetched but if he's wrong and they know nothing, why all the lies? Riddle me this.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 02, 2011, 03:36:PM
Jesus Statue, situated at top of road / junction from apartment block where "Maddie went missing"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on August 02, 2011, 02:36:PM
SteelMagnolia blog on McCann case:

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on September 20, 2011, 01:12:PM
Mike - any news from your recent trip to Portugal?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on September 20, 2011, 06:11:PM
Mike - any news from your recent trip to Portugal?
Police still not searched grounds of derelict building

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on September 20, 2011, 09:58:PM
Makes you wonder if police do not want to find body of Maddie - they haven't been looking hard enough...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on September 29, 2011, 08:51:PM
Photographs taken by Mike Teskowski in PDL:-

Please visit following link:-

(1) http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Mike_Teskowski.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on December 23, 2011, 10:37:PM
Maddie experiments:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on December 24, 2011, 06:55:AM
Last known photograph taken of Maddie, showing fake tan on her right arm, and what appear to be bruising?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on December 28, 2011, 07:25:AM
Last known photograph taken of Maddie, showing fake tan on her right arm, and what appear to be bruising?

Yes,you're right,Id never noticed that before Ah,the plot thickens!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on February 05, 2012, 05:48:PM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/300185/Tapas-7-will-help-Madeleine-McCann-detectives
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on February 05, 2012, 09:06:PM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/300185/Tapas-7-will-help-Madeleine-McCann-detectives




Comparing these new statements with their previous statements, especially Jane Tanner's rogartory one should be a hoot!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lonny on March 06, 2012, 03:26:PM
Why would anybody be swayed either way by a lie detector test? They are notoriously unreliable and are not admissible in court - at least not in a UK court. I'm afraid I get annoyed when anybody mentions them as though they add some form of "scientific" evidence to a case one way or another - they don't, and are therefore best ignored completely.

I would say they as reliable on a jury.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 01:09:PM
I don't think Kate and Gerry had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine. The only thing they were guilty of is leaving their children 50 yards away in a holiday apartment.

The time Madeleine went missing was between 9:35 and 10pm.....

Two witnessed say, sorry 9 witnessed say they saw a man carrying a child round the time Madeleine went missing. All witnesses described a similar man and child....

One witness reported a man going east and the other witness in the south west of PLD
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 01:22:PM
they have lardgly been accused on the word of 1 bent cop.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 01:27:PM
Please don't mention Amaral to me....He made his money, he saw an avenue. He was disgracefully sacked because of his handling of another child that had disappeared...and the beating of that child's mother, whom Amaral accused her of murdering her own daughter...

5 missing children in that area over 7 years......:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 02:06:PM
sounds like a pattern to me and you cant blame the McCain for the other disappearances
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 02:21:PM
Child trafficking in Europe is rife, especially in Europe.  I have many theories of what happened that night
and also a good suspicion of who could have taken her......even to the point of getting her out of PDL

There were that many leads in this case that were never followed up....

I believe the abduction theory....and wont ever budge on it.. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 03:29:PM
funny how this policeman wants to accuse the parents every time a cynical person might think he had a vested interest in not catching the real culprits.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 03:55:PM
The guy was wining and dining when he was informed. He sent two traffic cops at 11pm and the PJ did not arrive till 1am. He himself did not attend the scene until 7am...By then the apartment had been invaded by everyone.....He was disgraced and sacked in the end.

Then he decided to write a book...telling the world he could prove that Kate and Gerry killed their daughter...

Some copper......He could prove it when sacked, but had no idea how to investigate when he was in charge....likely story....lol
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 04:06:PM
so you must really asked why he faliad to prove it when he had to th power to do something about it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 20, 2012, 04:32:PM
THE MADDIE FILES
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 04:43:PM
Mike I do believe that some M files to be one sided and not trusted sites.....

I used one that was not biased either way.......

No matter who throws what at me, I strongly believe she was abducted.

:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 04:48:PM
5 kids go missing in the same area over 7 years is that likely to be a coincidence
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 20, 2012, 05:23:PM
Hi Nunug

within 30 miles....I don't mean in the resort....:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on April 20, 2012, 05:43:PM
even so i don't think its that likely to be a coincidence.

if you apply the same radius how many kids go missing without trace over the same period of time.

in the uk i only know of one case in the last 10 or so years of a young kid going missing without trace and that's in the entire country

now Portugal has one fifth of population of the uk
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on April 26, 2012, 08:18:PM
According to news reports the Portuguese police are refusing to re-open the case of Madeleine, despite the current investigation by Scotland Yard. Or is it because of this?

Whatever peoples' views on this case there could have been some interesting developments.

I think this is a case where diplomacy ought to play a big part - from the offset the Portuguese were derided in the British press calling them, amongst other things, 'sardine munchers' etc.  This Lusophobic reporting did nothing to aid the finding of Madeleine. They were, naturally, affronted by this.

In the Panorama programme the PJ were still criticised for their poor policing and contamination of the apartment even though this happened before the police had arrived (their friends running into the flat etc). (As this is a JB forum the same criticisms are equally applied to EP.)

My view is if you want to work with forces of other countries don't go critising them on national TV as they will have seen the programme as they have satellite tv over there too!

As an aside, Dr. Amaral was not sacked.  He was promoted then he retired.  He wrote his book to outline the then/now Portuguese findings on the case and to answer his critics.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 26, 2012, 10:30:PM
Hi HMEssex

I am sure Amaral was fired for the bad handling of Joana Morais case.  My views on Amaral are ...you wouldn't want to know...lol

It's sad that Scotland Yard releases a new photo based on Madeleine being 9 years old.  And, said they had 195 new leads that were never followed up on....Then the announcement today that the PJ won't open the case....

Two bits of bad news on the same day....:)

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on April 27, 2012, 09:51:AM
Hi HMEssex

I am sure Amaral was fired for the bad handling of Joana Morais case.  My views on Amaral are ...you wouldn't want to know...lol

It's sad that Scotland Yard releases a new photo based on Madeleine being 9 years old.  And, said they had 195 new leads that were never followed up on....Then the announcement today that the PJ won't open the case....

Two bits of bad news on the same day....:)





Joana?  Surely, you mean Madeleine?!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 27, 2012, 10:43:AM




Joana?  Surely, you mean Madeleine?!

Hi There.

No, I mean Joana Cipriiano was a little Portuguese girl that went missing prior to Madeleine. Amaral was in charge of the case. He blamed the child's mother for her murder. The mother was beaten up badly and the pictures of her badly bruised face, hit the newspapers when Madeleine went missing. He was held responsible for her beating and was fired by the PJ. :)

Within a radios of 20 miles from PLD 5 children had gone missing in 7 years. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 30, 2012, 10:18:PM
I am convinced that Maddie was taken to the derelict building opposite the church and her body disposed of there. A single mattress and clothing found inside the building should have been seized and examined for DNA to help prove what actually happened to her...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 30, 2012, 10:21:PM
I am convinced that Maddie was taken to the derelict building opposite the church and her body disposed of there. A single mattress and clothing found inside the building should have been seized and examined for DNA to help prove what actually happened to her...

When I visited the premises in 2009 I had a very strong feeling that the building in question was haunted by Maddies presence....

The building and gardens need to be thoroughly searched for clues...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 30, 2012, 10:23:PM
I think that if the aforementioned premises and garden are searched properly that it will yield positive results that Maddie was took there, and that her remains are possibly still there...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 30, 2012, 10:28:PM
The premises and garden in question is accessible from the front of the building which is situated across from the church which became a favourite haunt of the McCann parents, and access can also be gained via a small wall next to a pub veranda. Access to a set of concrete steps leads down to the seashore next to the pub, and would have provided sufficient cover for anyone taking Maddie into the building on the night she went missing...

The clothing I photographed could provide vital clues to the identity of the person who took Maddie from apartment 5A that evening...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on April 30, 2012, 10:29:PM
Hi Mike

I have the idea that Malinka took Madeleine. He worked in travel and real estate. He was the one that had his car torched and the words. "Tell the truth" were written on the floor.

He wiped his hard drive before the police questioned him. Also on his other computer they found porn and bestiality. He had 3 alias, 3 different passports.

He was in charge of a yacht that left Logas in the early hours that night for Portomao.
The Smith's sighted a man similar to Jane Tanner, heading south west of PDL. Malinka lived round the corner with his mother. He also denied making two calls to Murat that night.

The list is long, but nothing was done by the PJ...no follow up were ever made. Malinka was in the UK the last I heard....

I don't rule of the derelict building was used.....maybe she was taken there prior to being picked up.....:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on April 30, 2012, 10:36:PM
Hi Mike

I have the idea that Malinka took Madeleine. He worked in travel and real estate. He was the one that had his car torched and the words. "Tell the truth" were written on the floor.

He wiped his hard drive before the police questioned him. Also on his other computer they found porn and bestiality. He had 3 alias, 3 different passports.

He was in charge of a yacht that left Logas in the early hours that night for Portomao.
The Smith's sighted a man similar to Jane Tanner, heading south west of PDL. Malinka lived round the corner with his mother. He also denied making two calls to Murat that night.

The list is long, but nothing was done by the PJ...no follow up were ever made. Malinka was in the UK the last I heard....

I don't rule of the derelict building was used.....maybe she was taken there prior to being picked up.....:)

I only spent an hour inside that derelict building, but I got very strong feelings that Maddie had been, was there. I found some clothing which I think belonged to the perpetrator which I took pictures of, and of course there was the mattress, a single one on the floor in a room at the front of the derelict building which looked out towards the church. I found and photographed the tube of insecticide which has linked to the image of a masked man carrying a female in his arms using the same grip as described by Jane tanner at the time of the alleged sighting of the man carrying off the child at the back of the apartment or at least in that vicinity...

I sent a report and photographs I took to the Portuguese police but they closed the case and took no action as far as I know...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on May 01, 2012, 12:54:AM
Hi Mike

I have the idea that Malinka took Madeleine. He worked in travel and real estate. He was the one that had his car torched and the words. "Tell the truth" were written on the floor.

He wiped his hard drive before the police questioned him. Also on his other computer they found porn and bestiality. He had 3 alias, 3 different passports.

He was in charge of a yacht that left Logas in the early hours that night for Portomao.
The Smith's sighted a man similar to Jane Tanner, heading south west of PDL. Malinka lived round the corner with his mother. He also denied making two calls to Murat that night.

The list is long, but nothing was done by the PJ...no follow up were ever made. Malinka was in the UK the last I heard....

I don't rule of the derelict building was used.....maybe she was taken there prior to being picked up.....:)
Was Malinka the dutchman? I too feel that he is involved somehow.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 01, 2012, 01:04:AM
Hi Tyler I think he had 3 nationalities one being Russian and I think he also had a Dutch passport as well as a Spanish one. :)

I'm not saying it was him, but I find he actions rather strange and the more you find out about him, the more suspicious he becomes....It's all good fun...lol :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 01, 2012, 01:26:AM
what he want 3 passports for.

he was up to something.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 01, 2012, 01:32:AM
what he want 3 passports for.

he was up to something.

Hi nunnug, he also used 3 different names, I will find the links tomorrow...I'm dead beat....Goodnight...:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 04, 2012, 05:15:PM
there certainly seems to have been certain  people who had a vested interest in pointing the finger at the mcanns.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 04, 2012, 05:39:PM
Hi There, sorry for not posting the links on Malinka, I forgot. It's been a while since I did anything on Madeleine....

There are various sites on the net, some pro some against....a lot of false information too.  :D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on May 04, 2012, 07:46:PM
there seems to be a lot of false information and i wonder if that's a coincidence or not
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 12, 2012, 10:24:PM
Here is a link to Gery McCanns blog where amongst many other things are shown photographs taken by me during my visit to Portugal:-

(1) - http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PHOTOGRAPHS.htm
(2) - http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Mike_Teskowski.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 12, 2012, 10:32:PM
Mike I have got that site in my favourites. It is a trusted site and so full of information....Are you from Sheffield Mike? :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 07:03:AM
In this link are short video reconstructions, connected with the case, including sightings of a suspect who was loitering around the apartment block from where Maddie eventually went missing, described by these witnesses as wearing blue denim jeans, a yellow top and or a black coloured jacket:-

(1) - http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/RECONSTRUCTIONS.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 07:56:AM
Witness reports seeing a suspect hanging around in the immediate vicinity of Apartment 5A, on Friday, 30th May 2007 at 8:15am, and 2nd May, 2007 at 12:25pm:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: indeed on May 13, 2012, 03:29:PM
i feel sorry for Mike lol he flew all the way over there and found nothing now keeps spamming a bunch of irrelevant pictures of an abandoned building which no one cares about and the police obviously checked... not even that but he claims he found where the body is buried... but instead of digging it up and closing this case he flies home and posts pictures of insecticide bottles. haha.  and even worse, he thinks the ad is relevant becuase it has a picture of jason from friday the 13th carrying a woman.... yea the mccans bought some insecticide to stop bugs eating a body that they wanted to get rid of anyway, that makes sense, and they chose a brand of insecticide based on the tv ads... get a life mate
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ngb1066 on May 13, 2012, 03:43:PM
  indeed - in accordance with forum rules please introduce yourself in the forum before making further posts.  Thank you for your cooperation.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on May 13, 2012, 03:48:PM
where abouts

Foyer section, as per pm.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 05:12:PM
You will all be gobsmacked when the truth comes out:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 05:18:PM
For everyone's information the derelict building and its ground situated across the way from the church was not and has not been searched properly - show me the search records from the Portuguese files which prove otherwise?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 06:57:PM
I took extensive photographs in the grounds of the derelict building situated across the way from the church at PDL, and it should be obvious to anyone and everyone that it would have taken a mammoth task for the police to have searched this area properly...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 13, 2012, 07:04:PM
Mike I don't think they searched anywhere much....after 24 hours they gave up.  Some of the Warner staff left the Country. There was never a door to door enquiry made. Hardly any leads where followed up on. They made aguido's of those that were innocent. The list is endless....:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 07:07:PM
For everyone's information the derelict building and its ground situated across the way from the church was not and has not been searched properly - show me the search records from the Portuguese files which prove otherwise?

There were several other derelict buildings within half a mile of the one I photographed, which the police also failed to search or investigate, as well as vast expanses of wasteland and coastline...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 07:17:PM
Please visit following link address to view relevant images from the security camera's at Paraiso Restaurant/Bar:-

(1) - http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic7739.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on May 13, 2012, 07:39:PM
Mike is that all of the photographs in that section? Oddly enough, I have seen them loads of times, but on this occasion I have noticed something rather odd....

Look at the timing of the photographs. Then look beyond the boundary of the cafe, it looks like a fence....You seen the same man in most of the shots.  Lol i'm on the wine...hahahahah
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 08:53:PM
Route to and from the paraiso restuarant on the far side of the beach, brought the McCanns and thier children within striking distance of the predators lair inside the derelect building across the way from the church at PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 09:06:PM
Route to and from the paraiso restuarant on the far side of the beach, brought the McCanns and thier children within striking distance of the predators lair inside the derelect building across the way from the church at PDL...

It was a relatively simple task to follow them back to apartment 5A...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 09:15:PM
It was a relatively simple task to follow them back to apartment 5A...

on the evening before Maddies disappearance, the predator noted how the parents left thier children alone back in apartment 5A whilst they ate and drank in the tapas bar...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 13, 2012, 09:19:PM
on the evening before Maddies disappearance, the predator noted how the parents left thier children alone back in apartment 5A whilst they ate and drank in the tapas bar...

There were several vantage places from which the predator was able to observe them, whilst the parents ate and drank at the tapas bar...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 29, 2012, 09:54:PM
Recent ghostly image of Maddie McCann:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2012, 02:01:PM
Heavens / Hells gate...

I have recently taken some very astonishing photograhs which purport to show images of MAddie, and those involved in her disappearence / death...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2012, 02:55:PM
A voice calls out "Come and get me, Mr Mike, don't let them forget where I  am, make them come and find me, Mr Mike, I am here, make them come for me, please"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on May 30, 2012, 03:47:PM
...

I hope they find this girl seen - but as each year goes on the chances of her being found alive grow slimmer than I can even consider. But if a child is alive and not found within the first found years .....once that child grows up there is a good chance they will help themselves once they are of age.

I have a small son and if anyone took him like this - I couldn't live. The diea of going on and on each day without knowing where he is or if he is hurt would actually kill me, I would have shot myself years back.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on May 30, 2012, 03:52:PM
...

I hope they find this girl seen - but as each year goes on the chances of her being found alive grow slimmer than I can even consider. But if a child is alive and not found within the first found years .....once that child grows up there is a good chance they will help themselves once they are of age.

I have a small son and if anyone took him like this - I couldn't live. The diea of going on and on each day without knowing where he is or if he is hurt would actually kill me, I would have shot myself years back.
I do agree mat, I really don't know how the McCanns bare it, except they have 2 other children so really must feel they have no choice.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on May 30, 2012, 03:58:PM
Hi Maggie  I suppose the McCanns will never forgive themselves for leaving her alone.  Do you remember the Ben Needham case he was taken from outside his Grandparents home think it was Rhodes he was about three will be well over 20 now.  very sad for a parent to loose a child this way as there is no closure.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on May 30, 2012, 04:11:PM
Hi Maggie  I suppose the McCanns will never forgive themselves for leaving her alone.  Do you remember the Ben Needham case he was taken from outside his Grandparents home think it was Rhodes he was about three will be well over 20 now.  very sad for a parent to loose a child this way as there is no closure.
So true susie, I remember Ben Needham, there are many, many children who simply disappear that we don't hear about, it must be a never ending nightmare for the parents.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on May 30, 2012, 04:18:PM
Hi Maggie  I remember Ben Needham case as they came from Sheffield or somewhere in Yorkshire parents finished up getting divorced because of the strain of it and the Mother got no help from anyone and she is still looking for him. so so sad.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 30, 2012, 08:53:PM
...

I hope they find this girl seen - but as each year goes on the chances of her being found alive grow slimmer than I can even consider. But if a child is alive and not found within the first found years .....once that child grows up there is a good chance they will help themselves once they are of age.

I have a small son and if anyone took him like this - I couldn't live. The diea of going on and on each day without knowing where he is or if he is hurt would actually kill me, I would have shot myself years back.

The sooner police did this area up the quicker this case can be put to bed, so to speak...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on May 30, 2012, 10:41:PM
You think Maddie is buried there?

Just a word of warning, pal. Be careful - if someone reads that, sees the pictures and sees that you're saying you know Maddie is buried there..........
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2012, 02:21:PM
You think Maddie is buried there?

Just a word of warning, pal. Be careful - if someone reads that, sees the pictures and sees that you're saying you know Maddie is buried there..........

I feel 100% certain that the remains of Maddie McCann will be found in the area shown, and until someone goes there and digs it up, nothing anyone can say or do will make me think otherwise. The voice of Maddie, calls out to me, pleading with me to get them to come for her, She refers to me as Mr Mike, and urges me not to forget where she is, and all I am doing is trying to bring this matter towards an overdue conclusion...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on May 31, 2012, 05:07:PM
Have you shared this information with the current SY team working the case? Do you want/need their contact information where you can submit your feelings/beliefs anonymously.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2012, 07:30:PM
Madeleine 's remains will be found in  these grounds of the derelict building, across the street from the church at Pria de Luz :-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2012, 08:27:PM
There are too many secondary residual images around the face image of Maddie, for this not to be a site of some significance...

These secondary residual images are usually found in places or locations where a murderess act, or some form of gratuitous violence has occurred or taken place - in this case what I believe to have been the killing of Maddie and disposal of her body by the perpetrators...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2012, 08:36:PM
At one stage the PP were trying to identify a long haired haggard looking man who was seen carrying off a small child in his arms - similar to one of the secondary residual images filmed at the site where body of victim is believed to have been buried:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on May 31, 2012, 08:59:PM
Now take a look at this secondary residual image photographed at the site where the remains of Maddie are likely to be found, there appears to be a multiple overlay of different images emerging one or more out of the others:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2012, 06:29:AM
Here are some examples of secondary visual trace evidence found in one of the photographs taken in Portugal in connection with the case of the missing "Maddie" McCann:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2012, 07:08:AM
Here is another example of secondary visual trace evidence shown in a photograph taken in Barcelona of self:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2012, 09:38:PM
Having read Jane Tanners account about the type of clothing worn by the person who was seen carrying off the child at the top of the road junction, I am not convinced that the man in  question was wearing beige coloured trousers, since denim jeans in the kind of street lighting in that area, tend to look beige in colour because of the lighting there. I know this to be true because when I visited the same spot I was able to observe a number of different people walking in that area when it was dark who wore jeans which looked beige in colour because of the street lighting having such an effect...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2012, 10:02:PM
If Jane Tanner saw the abductor carrying off Maddie, this would have had to have occurred before 9:30pm, and would throw doubt over the claim made by another member of the tapas group who said they had gone to Apartment 5A at about 9:30pm, reporting back to the McCanns that all was quiet back at the apartment, since abductor would already have taken Maddie before such an additional check...

I am finding it hard to make any sense out of these accounts?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on June 02, 2012, 11:09:PM
If Jane Tanner saw the abductor carrying off Maddie, this would have had to have occurred before 9:30pm, and would throw doubt over the claim made by another member of the tapas group who said they had gone to Apartment 5A at about 9:30pm, reporting back to the McCanns that all was quiet back at the apartment, since abductor would already have taken Maddie before such an additional check...

I am finding it hard to make any sense out of these accounts?




If you read the transcripts of Jane Tanner's statements, it throws doubt on everything the Tapas Group said happened.

You're right, her 'account' makes no sense. 

DP's statement is equally non-sensical - so scary he's a doctor!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 02, 2012, 11:37:PM



If you read the transcripts of Jane Tanner's statements, it throws doubt on everything the Tapas Group said happened.

You're right, her 'account' makes no sense. 

DP's statement is equally non-sensical - so scary he's a doctor!

Oddly enough, Jane Tanner was not at the tapas bar when Kate went back to apartment 5A to check on the children, Tanner was away at her own apartment looking after her own sick child...

Absence from the tapas bar, of Jane Tanner and Kate McCann at about the time Maddie was reported as missing, could prove to be ominous? Especially because Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann were both away from the tapas bar around the time of the alleged sighting of the man carrying a child in his arms at the top of the road junction?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: FreeWillieGage on June 03, 2012, 03:04:PM


"Searches were carried out in the region. The spanish authorities were warned, the borders were controled. "THE LARGEST SEARCH OPERATION EVER TO BE CARRIED OUT IN PORTUGAL WAS ORGANISED. During several days, hundreds of militaries from the GNR,firemen, volunteers and members of the policia judiciaria, THOROUGHLY searched over 200 square kilometers, a GIGANTIC search operation. No search in Portugal had ever included such means and so many people. Everything is checked, and checked again, borders are watched, all vehicles are searched. The child does not appear.


there's News footage out there of the area you are taking pictures of being thoroughly searched by professionals.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Nuala on June 03, 2012, 03:13:PM
Free Willie Gage, please go to the Foyer and introduce yourself, forum rules require you to do so prior to posting. Also, please avoid goading, it is not a good idea for newbies to goad, it's an even worse idea to goad the forum owner as you are doing.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on June 03, 2012, 03:20:PM
Chochok eira he is totally out of order talking about the owner of the site in such a manner.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 03, 2012, 03:21:PM
I used to lean towards Amaral in this case.  Now I haven't got a clue and am nearer 50/50.  I just cant see how the McCanns could pull off a bluff of this magnitude. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 03:23:PM
Chochok eira he is totally out of order talking about the owner of the site in such a manner.

Maybe willie is just shocked and astonished.

Maddie is an emotive subject.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: FreeWillieGage on June 03, 2012, 03:26:PM
Maybe willie is just shocked and astonished.


Disgusted more like
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 03:29:PM

Disgusted more like

Or that.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: FreeWillieGage on June 03, 2012, 03:31:PM
editted my post may have let my emotions get the better of me when sending it. no need for trying to insult people personally.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on June 03, 2012, 03:33:PM
Hi Bridget  I agree about the maddie case and I was sceptical about Mike,s posting but I think we can express out feelings in a less abrasive way that is all I am saying. :(
Thought you would be off celebrating the Jubilee or are you like me and happier to stay home :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on June 03, 2012, 03:46:PM
Hi FreeWillyGage  welcome to the forum.  I know what you mean when you feel passionate about something it is so easy  to let your emotions run riot we have all done it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 03:52:PM
Hi Bridget  I agree about the maddie case and I was sceptical about Mike,s posting but I think we can express out feelings in a less abrasive way that is all I am saying. :(
Thought you would be off celebrating the Jubilee or are you like me and happier to stay home :)

I'm just enjoying the long weekend to be honest, getting quite a bit done amid the relaxing.

I think most people are sceptical, and we've all gotten used to the sort of things mike posts. It's different for new people.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 03, 2012, 03:54:PM
Bridget,

Have you read Truth of the Lie by Amaral?  If so, what did you think of it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on June 03, 2012, 04:02:PM
Hi Bridget  it is nice to have time off and do your own thing.  Yes I have been a little surprised at some of Mike,s postings and wondered if I was missing something i.e. with no pics but I don,t think so. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 04:07:PM
Bridget,

Have you read Truth of the Lie by Amaral?  If so, what did you think of it?

No, I haven't really followed the Madelaine story at all I'm afraid, I had no idea that her story was the subject of such speculation until I saw it one one of the other forums.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 04:08:PM
Hi Bridget  it is nice to have time off and do your own thing.  Yes I have been a little surprised at some of Mike,s postings and wondered if I was missing something i.e. with no pics but I don,t think so. :)

Devils in hedges and haystacks mostly ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Nuala on June 03, 2012, 04:11:PM
editted my post may have let my emotions get the better of me when sending it. no need for trying to insult people personally.


thank you. Your name is long one, do you prefer to be called by this or, FWG, or Willie?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 03, 2012, 04:12:PM
No, I haven't really followed the Madelaine story at all I'm afraid, I had no idea that her story was the subject of such speculation until I saw it one one of the other forums.

It's written by the detective thrown off the case... Taff Jones syndrome?  The link is on this thread in several places and it's a cracking read.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 04:13:PM
It's written by the detective thrown off the case... Taff Jones syndrome?  The link is on this thread in several places and it's a cracking read.

It's a book I take it?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Nuala on June 03, 2012, 04:21:PM
I don't know who abducted and possibly killed Madeleine McCann. It seems to me that there is insufficient evidence to point the finger at anyone. Given the lack of proof regarding who took her, I regard the internet witch hunt of the McCanns as disgraceful.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 03, 2012, 04:23:PM
It's a book I take it?

It's the book that the UK authorities banned over here, so it can only be read on-line.  He also wrote another book which I think was about UK authorities interference with Portugese authorities, around the case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 04:29:PM
It's the book that the UK authorities banned over here, so it can only be read on-line.  He also wrote another book which I think was about UK authorities interference with Portugese authorities, around the case.

Why was it banned?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ngb1066 on June 03, 2012, 04:49:PM
Why was it banned?

Libel.  An injunction was obtained.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Bridget on June 03, 2012, 04:52:PM
Libel.  An injunction was obtained.

Oh ok, I guess I'll have to find the link then.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 04, 2012, 12:47:AM
Amaral who wrote "Truth of the Lie" was a disgraced PJ. He was sacked because of an involvement with the Cipriano case.

He claims the parents killed Madeleine, after he was sacked....he claims he has the proof! But, whilst he was a detective in charge of the case he was clueless.....when sacked of course he knew everything.

Money Money Money....springs to mind....

If Amaral had stopped wining and dining on the night of her disappearance and, had attended the scene maybe and only maybe, would the crime scene been sectioned off....but Amaral did not arrive till the following morning.....

He was shamed copper after the Capriano affiair....

I do believe you can purchase his book....in a different Country...and that the ban has been lifted...Very sad that an ex copper should make.... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 04, 2012, 12:57:AM
There were a lot of children going missing around a 20 mile radius of PDL...over 20 years prior to 2007.  Child trafficking in Europe is rife......  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 04, 2012, 01:13:AM
Allegations of police misconduct
Though Leonor Cipriano confessed to killing her daughter, it was only after nearly 48 hours of continuous interrogation, and she retracted her confession the next day, claiming she had been beaten. She had extensive bruising after the interrogation, which the police claimed came about when she threw herself down the stairs.[7] Since then Gonçalo Amaral and four other Portuguese police officers have been charged with offences.[3] "Mr. Amaral was not present at the time of her alleged beating but is accused of covering up for his colleagues, which he strenuously denies."[8] Leonor Cipriano's former lawyer said that Leonor does not know who beat her up.[9]
[edit]Comparison to disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The village of Figueira is only seven miles from Praia da Luz, where Madeleine McCann disappeared on 3 May 2007. In both cases the mothers launched campaigns[citation needed] to find their girls and in both cases the local police, unable to find the girls alive, investigated the possibility that the mothers had killed their daughters.[10] On 19 June 1996, a six-year-old German child, Renè Hasèe, also disappeared, from the Amoreira beach near Aljezur while walking a few metres ahead of his parents.[11][12]
A child protection specialist, Mark Williams-Thomas, who believes that Joana's and Madeleine's disappearances are related, commented that the disappearance of two children unknown to each other, within a period of four years in a seven-mile radius, would be a huge coincidence, especially considering that "Portugal is a small country with very, very few abductions[...]" (Portugal's land area is about 70% of England's land area; its population in 2007 was roughly 22% of England's population).[4] Leandro Silva, the common-law husband of Leonor Cipriano, commented that "the only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money".[13]
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 04, 2012, 09:46:AM

"Searches were carried out in the region. The spanish authorities were warned, the borders were controled. "THE LARGEST SEARCH OPERATION EVER TO BE CARRIED OUT IN PORTUGAL WAS ORGANISED. During several days, hundreds of militaries from the GNR,firemen, volunteers and members of the policia judiciaria, THOROUGHLY searched over 200 square kilometers, a GIGANTIC search operation. No search in Portugal had ever included such means and so many people. Everything is checked, and checked again, borders are watched, all vehicles are searched. The child does not appear.


there's News footage out there of the area you are taking pictures of being thoroughly searched by professionals.

Well, pal, there is no evidence that they dug up the area where I think the abductor buried Maddie after he killed her...

The searches must have been pathetic that's ll I can say...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 04, 2012, 11:51:AM
Amaral who wrote "Truth of the Lie" was a disgraced PJ. He was sacked because of an involvement with the Cipriano case.

He claims the parents killed Madeleine, after he was sacked....he claims he has the proof! But, whilst he was a detective in charge of the case he was clueless.....when sacked of course he knew everything.

Money Money Money....springs to mind....

If Amaral had stopped wining and dining on the night of her disappearance and, had attended the scene maybe and only maybe, would the crime scene been sectioned off....but Amaral did not arrive till the following morning.....

He was shamed copper after the Capriano affiair....

I do believe you can purchase his book....in a different Country...and that the ban has been lifted...Very sad that an ex copper should make.... :) :) :) :)

I have to say I was impressed with Amaral and the PJ upon reading the book.  Since he wrote it, he could have course used the book to portray him self in a positive light.  I didn't come away from the book harbouring the sentiments you have have expressed above Patti but over time I have come to seriously doubt that the McCanns could front a facade of this magnitude, so he may very well be incorrect in his beliefs.  I don't recall anything about killings after he was sacked but it's a long time since I read the book.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Nuala on June 04, 2012, 07:24:PM
I have to say I was impressed with Amaral and the PJ upon reading the book.  Since he wrote it, he could have course used the book to portray him self in a positive light.  I didn't come away from the book harbouring the sentiments you have have expressed above Patti but over time I have come to seriously doubt that the McCanns could front a facade of this magnitude, so he may very well be incorrect in his beliefs.  I don't recall anything about killings after he was sacked but it's a long time since I read the book.


I know the British Man who gave Amaral a lot of his information because I worked with him many years ago. He was good man in those days and widely respected, but he had a breakdown and has never been the same since. He became a religious obsessive after the breakdown and has got himself into so much trouble. He led the witch hunt against the McCanns with scant evidence for this. I think much of the so called evidence was a product of this man's obsession.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:01:AM
I am currently re-reading Kate McCanns book - "Madeleine"
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:12:AM
Although the book is obviously a very moving personal account about the case from Kate McCanns point of view, there are parts of it which leave many questions still and yet unanswered...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:23:AM
Although the book is obviously a very moving personal account about the case from Kate McCanns point of view, there are parts of it which leave many questions still and yet unanswered...

I have personally spent a week staying in one of the apartments  across the road from apartment 5A, where Maddie went missing from. I walked the surrounding footpaths and roads, in the immediate vicinity of the crime scene, and further afield taking in the beach, shops and restaurants, etc. I am not entirely happy with the account given in this book, because it tends to avoid issues which need to be addressed. OK, Kate puts her story across very well, and makes out a case for her having no knowledge or involvement in Maddies disappearance, but she fails to convince me that one or other of her friends did not play some role or other in it. There is something not quite right about the way this issue appears to be ignored altogether in the book.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:54:AM
You can view some of the photograhs which I took whilst staying in PDL at the following link:-

(1) - http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Mike_Teskowski.htm
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:03:AM
David Payne / Jane Tanner?

This would be a good starting point for any investigation by the police, question marks hangs over their accounts and possible involvement in the unfolding drama...

Particular care should be paid to the movement of this pair throughout the evening that Maddie went missing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:10:AM
Jane Tanner is conveniently away from the tapas bar at the time Kate McCann goes to apartment 5A and discovers Maddie to be missing...

Earlier...

She claims to have seen a man carrying off a child in his arms...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:12:AM
Start with a full account of their movements between their respective apartments and the tapas bar, leading up to the disappearance of Maddie, and later once her disappearance had been reported...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:16:AM
Since, Jane Tanner was the only person to have seen the man carrying off a child in his arms, to be pondered is why she was not taken into the streets by other members of the tapas group that same night  to look for the man with a view of trying to identify, and locate him and the child?

Something very dodgy been going on here in my book...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:18:AM
Since, Jane Tanner was the only person to have seen the man carrying off a child in his arms, to be pondered is why she was not taken into the streets by other members of the tapas group that same night  to look for the man with a view of trying to identify, and locate him and the child?

Something very dodgy been going on here in my book...

Maddie was not taken out of the bedroom window by a lone abductor, I think that whoever took her, did so through the front door that led into the alley / car park - Jane Tanner had the opportunity to have done this before Kate arrived to check the apartment at about 10pm...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:21:AM
Maddie was not taken out of the bedroom window by a lone abductor, I think that whoever took her, did so through the front door that led into the alley / car park - Jane Tanner had the opportunity to have done this before Kate arrived to check the apartment at about 10pm...

How convenient that Jane Tanners little daugther was ill on the very same evening that Maddie went missing, which provided a perfect excuse for her to be away from the tapas bar at the time the McCann parents were there (with the exception of Gerry's visit to check apartment 5A at about 9:05pm) ?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 09:41:AM
Apartments

(Ground floor)

5A - Kate and Gerry McCann
5B - Mat and Rachel Oldfield
5C - empty
5D - Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien

(upstairs)

5H - David and Fiona Payne (Diane Webster)

---------------------------------------------------------

I believe that abductor(s) entered via patio door at tapas (pool side) bar side of premises, and exited via front door on road side of premises (where car park is located). I do not buy into any suggestion that any abductor got through the shuttered bedroom window in the children's bedroom, or that Maddie could have been taken through the same bedroom window, during her abduction or removal from the premises by one person...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 09:55:AM
Once inside the apartment (having entered via the patio doors) any would be abductor would easily be able to let themselves out via the front door on the road side of the building, there would be no need to climb out of the bedroom window which would involve opening curtains, opening the window, and pulling up the security blind...

Much easier to simply come back out of the bedroom and turn sharp left to the front door...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:01:AM
Any would be abductor would not risk exiting the apartment via the patio door at the pool side of the premises carrying off Maddie because they would know that this was the most likeliest route the parents might take when and if returning to the apartment unexpectedly. It would also be highly risky for any would be abductor to climb out of the bedroom window carrying off Maddie, which is why I feel certain that Maddie was carried off or removed from the premises via the front door ...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:09:AM
Any would be abductor would not risk exiting the apartment via the patio door at the pool side of the premises carrying off Maddie because they would know that this was the most likeliest route the parents might take when and if returning to the apartment unexpectedly. It would also be highly risky for any would be abductor to climb out of the bedroom window carrying off Maddie, which is why I feel certain that Maddie was carried off or removed from the premises via the front door ...

Not only do I feel that Maddie was not taken through the bedroom window, but once outside the apartment (5A) I think any would be abductor would not have climbed over the wall into the car park carrying a child, but rather they would have walked along the path which runs along from apartments 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D, to a set of concrete steps which lead up onto the car park, and adjoining upstairs apartments. This journey would have taken the abductor along the footpath past the apartments of Matt and Rachel Oldfield (5B), the empty apartment 5C, and the apartment enjoyed by Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien (5D), and the set of concrete stairs which led up to the next level where David and Fiona Payne (and Diane Webster) were located...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:27:AM
The opened bedroom window was probably opened as a means to escape by the abductor. Or, it was opened because chloroform was used and it was a way to get rid of the smell.  There were no forensic evidence to support the window had been in use.

I agree the front door could have been used, but you can only believe that if you believe Jane Tanner saw a man carrying a child across the top of the road.

35/45 minutes later in the south west of PDL you have the Smith family seeing a man carrying a child. Bare in mind that the Smiths nor Tanner saw each other or saw each others statements; they all describe a similar man carrying a similar child....I think 9 witnesses in all...

The only thing that bothered us was the fact that Jane saw a man walking East towards Logos....and the Smith's sighting was in the South West.....

We thought long and hard about this....and realised that the abductor had changed direction...Why? because he had been seen.....Like any criminal he changed route in order to fool...

The abductor was local, had no transport possibly a local man or an holiday maker.....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:39:PM
The opened bedroom window was probably opened as a means to escape by the abductor. Or, it was opened because chloroform was used and it was a way to get rid of the smell.  There were no forensic evidence to support the window had been in use.

I agree the front door could have been used, but you can only believe that if you believe Jane Tanner saw a man carrying a child across the top of the road.

35/45 minutes later in the south west of PDL you have the Smith family seeing a man carrying a child. Bare in mind that the Smiths nor Tanner saw each other or saw each others statements; they all describe a similar man carrying a similar child....I think 9 witnesses in all...

The only thing that bothered us was the fact that Jane saw a man walking East towards Logos....and the Smith's sighting was in the South West.....

We thought long and hard about this....and realised that the abductor had changed direction...Why? because he had been seen.....Like any criminal he changed route in order to fool...

The abductor was local, had no transport possibly a local man or an holiday maker.....

Interesting observations, and worthy of consideration if only Jane Tanner has been telling the truth...

I personally think window was left open to try and fool the police into thinking Maddie had simply been abducted through it by a stranger, rather than she having been taken from the apartment by somebody close to the McCanns via the front door...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:42:PM
Not only do I feel that Maddie was not taken through the bedroom window, but once outside the apartment (5A) I think any would be abductor would not have climbed over the wall into the car park carrying a child, but rather they would have walked along the path which runs along from apartments 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D, to a set of concrete steps which lead up onto the car park, and adjoining upstairs apartments. This journey would have taken the abductor along the footpath past the apartments of Matt and Rachel Oldfield (5B), the empty apartment 5C, and the apartment enjoyed by Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien (5D), and the set of concrete stairs which led up to the next level where David and Fiona Payne (and Diane Webster) were located...

Here is the relevant footpath outside the relevant apartments, which I photographed in 2010:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 12:49:PM
These pictures show a view of the front door of apartment 5A which I took in 2010:-

If you came out of the door (5A) and turned right, you would be facing eastwards in the general direction of where Jane Tanner claims she saw the man carrying off a child in his arms at about 9:05pm. From my point of view, any would be abductor would have come out of the front door and turned immediately left along the footpath which took them past the apartment blocks of the other members of the group, or in other words, westward. For this reason, I do not think any abductor would walk up the steps into the car park and turn right downhill in the direction of the road junction where Jane Tanner claims she spotted the man carrying a child, walking as it were in  an easterly direction. I can't see any would be abductor turning back upon himself and walking back in the very same direction that other members of the group would have to come to check their apartments. It would be much simpler for any would be abductor to turn left out of the entrance to the car park and go uphill, or in other words generally in an eastward direction...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 01:01:PM
Interesting observations, and worthy of consideration if only Jane Tanner has been telling the truth...

I personally think window was left open to try and fool the police into thinking Maddie had simply been abducted through it by a stranger, rather than she having been taken from the apartment by somebody close to the McCanns via the front door...
Interesting observations, and worthy of consideration if only Jane Tanner has been telling the truth...

Mike that could also be true......leading the police in thinking that the abductor got in and out of the window...but we know this is not the case. But did the abductor know that this would be forensically proved it wasn't the case.
I have often thought that someone on the complex knew the routine and had a key to that apartment....One could get out of the front door without a key, but would have needed one to get in.

I always believe that entry was made through the patio, although this can't be proven.

I don't think Jane Tanner was lying, she saw what she saw, along with the Smiths.....

What I have never been able to work out though, is why a man would walking about with a stolen child around the complex for 30 t0 45 minutes...Or could we say that Tanner and the Smith family were all lying and the abductor snatched her and fled of in a car?  It would make more sense to do that if the abduction was planned, rather that walk aimlessly around with her for x number minutes, he wans't that careful was he? :)

I personally think window was left open to try and fool the police into thinking Maddie had simply been abducted through it by a stranger, rather than she having been taken from the apartment by somebody close to the McCanns via the front door...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 01:03:PM
Mike I need to ask you a question. When you walk around the apartment and enter the car park at the front can you see the window?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:08:PM


I'm not happy with Jane Tanners account, it doesn't sit well with me, it does not have a ring of truth about it, I think it was made up, and that the description she gave of the man carrying the child who was walking in a easterly direction, matches the description of the person seen by the Smith contingent, who was spotted walking in a westerly direction, because Jane Tanner knew and knows the identity of the person who physically carried off Maddie, and who was later spotted by the Smith family...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:12:PM
Mike I need to ask you a question. When you walk around the apartment and enter the car park at the front can you see the window?

I took pictures of the view you are talking about when I spent a week there in 2010:-

Daylight and night views which I will try to recover from disks which I saved all my photographs taken in Portugal on, but for now here are some which I have to hand...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:21:PM
There is a street lamp situated close to the corner of the road junction which lights up the area at night time - so, Jane Tanner would have been able to see the bedroom shutter raised up, the window open, and curtains fluttering about when she returned to her apartment at the time of her alleged sighting of the man carrying off the child in his arms in an easterly direction. Jane Tanner was going back to her apartment (5D) which is shown in this picture taken from the entrance to the car park, and which also shows the bedroom window through which it has been claimed that Maddie was taken:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:23:PM
Here is the street lamp which illuminates the relevant area near to the road junction:-

(To be uploaded soon)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:30:PM
The other thing which falls to be considered is the fact that at about 9:30pm, two other members of the group volunteered to go and check apartment 5A for the MCanns, at which time they learned that the patio door at the tapas (pool) side of the building of apartment 5A had been left unlocked and open? These two characters went there on the pretense that they were going to check their own apartments as well?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 01:35:PM
I'm amazed and your pictures answer my question....that is that the window could have been seen open.

It was passed at least 9 times by the Tapas group, yet all failed to see it open, with shutters up.  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:38:PM
The other thing which falls to be considered is the fact that at about 9:30pm, two other members of the group volunteered to go and check apartment 5A for the MCanns, at which time they learned that the patio door at the tapas (pool) side of the building of apartment 5A had been left unlocked and open? These two characters went there on the pretense that they were going to check their own apartments as well?

According to the evidence, (whoever you choose to believe) access to apartment 5A was the only premises which was accessible via the pool side patio doors, all the other group members left their apartments by the corresponding front doors, situated on the car park side of the building. So these two characters left the tapas bar at about 9:30pm and went directly to the patio doors of apartment 5A at the pool side of the building and carried out a check on the McCann children? From there, these two men then went to their respective apartments to carry out checks themselves on the opposite side of the building...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:39:PM
I'm amazed and your pictures answer my question....that is that the window could have been seen open.

It was passed at least 9 times by the Tapas group, yet all failed to see it open, with shutters up.  :-\ :-\ :-\

Correct, utterly amazing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 01:40:PM
Did you take any pictures at night time Mike?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:53:PM
Did you take any pictures at night time Mike?

Yes, of course I did...

Anyone going back to apartments, 5A, 5B, 5D and 5H would easily have been able to see if the shutter at the bedroom window was raised up, and the window open, with its curtains fluttering about. This is what convinces me that Jane Tanners account is not a truthful one. If it was true, for example, she couldn't help to have missed the shutter at the window of apartment 5A raised up, with window open and curtains fluttering when she went back to her own apartment (5D). Not only that but with the return of two further members of the group at around 9:30pm, who as I say volunteered to check 5A for the McCanns, as well as go to check their own apartments, either of these two characters would have spotted the raised shutter, open window and fluttering curtains, once they had left 5A at the poolside, and gone to their respective apartments on the opposite side of the building? If shove came to push and I had to pick the identity of those involved in Maddies removal from apartment 5A, I would have to put Jane Tanner and the two group members who left the tapas bar at 9:30pm, in the frame...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 01:58:PM
Yes, of course I did...

Anyone going back to apartments, 5A, 5B, 5D and 5H would easily have been able to see if the shutter at the bedroom window was raised up, and the window open, with its curtains fluttering about. This is what convinces me that Jane Tanners account is not a truthful one. If it was true, for example, she couldn't help to have missed the shutter at the window of apartment 5A raised up, with window open and curtains fluttering when she went back to her own apartment (5D). Not only that but with the return of two further members of the group at around 9:30pm, who as I say volunteered to check 5A for the McCanns, as well as go to check their own apartments, either of these two characters would have spotted the raised shutter, open window and fluttering curtains, once they had left 5A at the poolside, and gone to their respective apartments on the opposite side of the building? If shove came to push and I had to pick the identity of those involved in Maddies removal from apartment 5A, I would have to put Jane Tanner and the two group members who left the tapas bar at 9:30pm, in the frame...

I think that Maddie was removed from apartment 5A, at some time between 9:30 - 10pm...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 02:00:PM
I think that Maddie was removed from apartment 5A, at some time between 9:30 - 10pm...

I also think that Jane Tanners absence from the tapas bar at the time Kate supposedly discovers Maddie to be missing, is no coincidence...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 02:05:PM
I also think that Jane Tanners absence from the tapas bar at the time Kate supposedly discovers Maddie to be missing, is no coincidence...

If you link this to the fact that the two characters who volunteered to check apartment 5A for the McCanns at 9;30pm, were told they could gain access through the unlocked patio door, and that this was the first occasion that anyone knew that the parents had left their children in an insecure building, the signs are obvious that someone took advantage of this at the time of this fact being shared by the parents, with them?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 02:11:PM
Not to be overlooked, is the fact that whoever carried off Maddie from 5A almost certainly had to go directly past the front doors of apartments 5B and 5D, and the stairwell that led to apartment 5H (above)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 02:17:PM
I think that Maddie was removed from apartment 5A, at some time between 9:30 - 10pm...

Hi Mike, was that the last time Tanner passed that window though? Did she go back to the bar? Memory has gone, it;s been a long time since I looked at the statements...I did a timeline...but, I can't find it, but I am going back a few years..... know she was in the apartment when the alarm was raised.

Mike can you see that window clearly in an evening? I know trees have grown etc..... :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 02:24:PM
Not to be overlooked, is the fact that whoever carried off Maddie from 5A almost certainly had to go directly past the front doors of apartments 5B and 5D, and the stairwell that led to apartment 5H (above)...

It sounds crazy. You would think if the abduction was planned, so would the get away....in, out and gone!

It makes no sense to carry an abducted child around with you for x number of minutes...You say you are not sure of Tannner's statement, I have never been sure about the Smiths...However there are more of the Smiths that saw the sighting, which leads me to believe that they were telling the truth....

I can't see why Tanner would lie....other than creating herself some much needed attention...She has children of her own...I find it difficult to think that she was lying....but I suppose there has to be scope between them all.....

If she was telling the truth then he was heading towards Murat's......He did hire a car the next morning and this has never been explained...although I feel he was just as much a victim as the McCann's were in the eyes of the PJ.  :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 02:32:PM
Hi Mike, was that the last time Tanner passed that window though? Did she go back to the bar? Memory has gone, it;s been a long time since I looked at the statements...I did a timeline...but, I can't find it, but I am going back a few years..... know she was in the apartment when the alarm was raised.

Mike can you see that window clearly in an evening? I know trees have grown etc..... :) :)

Yes, you can see the window of 5A as soon as you turn the corner of the road junction and start to go uphill, the boundary wall is taller closest to the junction, but it tapers away the closer you progress to the entrance of the car park. I do not profess to know how tall Jane Tanner is, but I should say that once she had come around the bend at the junction, she would only have needed to go a couple of meters and if looking left, she would have had a clear view of the bedroom window at 5A. For some reason she makes no mention in any of her accounts about whether or not she could see the window in question from the footpath at the roadside, or if at that stage the shutter was up or down, or if the window was open or closed, or if the curtain was fluttering or not?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 02:40:PM
I can't understand it....several of the party passed that window. I know that if you're not looking for it, maybe you could have passed it once...but several times??

Here is Jane's statement original transcripts.  :)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 07:07:PM
I can't understand it....several of the party passed that window. I know that if you're not looking for it, maybe you could have passed it once...but several times??

Here is Jane's statement original transcripts.  :)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf

I am interested in the part of this interview where Jane Tanner makes mention of an earlier occasion during the week before the night when Maddie went missing, when Russel and someone else who Tanner does not want to name, checked on Maddie? I am wondering if this had anything at all to do with the occasion when Maddie complained to Kate about not coming the previous evening when they had been awake and crying? It is also interesting to note, that Jane Tanner says that Russell had met Robert Murat earlier in the week, and I was just wondering if Murat was the other person who went to check on Maddie and the children which Maddie mentioned to Kate?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 07:18:PM
Here are some night photographs which I took in 2010:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 07:37:PM
Here are some more images from the area around apartment 5A car park, and a view down hill from outside the doorway of the same apartment:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 07:39:PM
Mike thanks for them, it confirms to me that the car park is well lit up at the front of the apartments...How could they have missed the window?

Not sure about Murat, Mike. He was was supposed to have been seen that night by someone in the Tapas 9 ....but he denies any involvement and his mother gave him an alibi....

But he did phone Malinka up at about 11pm that night...and both of then denied it...why?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 07:46:PM
Mike thanks for them, it confirms to me that the car park is well lit up at the front of the apartments...How could they have missed the window?

Not sure about Murat, Mike. He was was supposed to have been seen that night by someone in the Tapas 9 ....but he denies any involvement and his mother gave him an alibi....

But he did phone Malinka up at about 11pm that night...and both of then denied it...why?

Alarm bells are ringing in my head - I would like the police to get to the bottom of this business where Jane Tanner starts to tell the Leicester police about an earlier occasion in the week before the night when Maddie went missing when her partner Russell O'Brien checked on Maddie and the other two children with someone else, she did not want to name? I think it is vitally important to identify the occasion Tanner spoke about and to find out who this other person was /is?

I fell sure the McCann parents did not know anything at all about this previous check having been made by Russell O'Brien, and another?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 07:48:PM
Alarm bells are ringing in my head - I would like the police to get to the bottom of this business where Jane Tanner starts to tell the Leicester police about an earlier occasion in the week before the night when Maddie went missing when her partner Russell O'Brien checked on Maddie and the other two children with someone else, she did not want to name? I think it is vitally important to identify the occasion Tanner spoke about and to find out who this other person was /is?

I fell sure the McCann parents did not know anything at all about this previous check having been made by Russell O'Brien, and another?

I am just wondering if the other person on that / this other unreported occasion was either Murat or Malinka?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 07:56:PM
I will have to re-check it all Mike. It's years since I was involved in researching the case.

Did you also know that the Smith Family knew Murat? Not that it has any relevance, but it's worth knowing....

Also in Kate's book she never mentions the Smith family, she calls them the family from Ireland... :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 08:08:PM
I will have to re-check it all Mike. It's years since I was involved in researching the case.

Did you also know that the Smith Family knew Murat? Not that it has any relevance, but it's worth knowing....

Also in Kate's book she never mentions the Smith family, she calls them the family from Ireland... :)

I also believe that Murat had some sort of business meeting close to the Baptiste supermarket in PDL on the night Maddie went missing. I seem to recall something about his girlfriend saying he had a business appointment at about 9:30pm in that locality, or whatever. The interesting thing is I think Murat and Malinka both were supposed to have attended such a meeting, and if true it places them both in the vicinity, and somewhere along the route where the Smith family made the sighting of Maddie being carried off in the direction of the coastline...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 08:39:PM
I also believe that Murat had some sort of business meeting close to the Baptiste supermarket in PDL on the night Maddie went missing. I seem to recall something about his girlfriend saying he had a business appointment at about 9:30pm in that locality, or whatever. The interesting thing is I think Murat and Malinka both were supposed to have attended such a meeting, and if true it places them both in the vicinity, and somewhere along the route where the Smith family made the sighting of Maddie being carried off in the direction of the coastline...

That's right Mike both Murat and Malinka had a meeting in the supermarket. I think that was a few days prior to the abduction..

Malinka has 3 aliases and 3 different passports....he wiped his hard drive clean so the PJ would not see what was on it....he also had his car set on fire....with letters written on the pavement in red....He also had a boat...was into porn and bestiality. 

His business with Murat was real estate and holiday apartments....

Have you read Malinka's statements?  :)

I dare bet the Smith family knew Malinka too, he lived just round the corner from where the Smiths saw a man carrying a child...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:21:PM
That's right Mike both Murat and Malinka had a meeting in the supermarket. I think that was a few days prior to the abduction..

Malinka has 3 aliases and 3 different passports....he wiped his hard drive clean so the PJ would not see what was on it....he also had his car set on fire....with letters written on the pavement in red....He also had a boat...was into porn and bestiality. 

His business with Murat was real estate and holiday apartments....

Have you read Malinka's statements?  :)

I dare bet the Smith family knew Malinka too, he lived just round the corner from where the Smiths saw a man carrying a child...

Do we have any photographic images of Malinka?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:33:PM
Do we have any photographic images of Malinka?

Yes I will go and get you one... :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:35:PM
This is a young Malinka....I will try and find an older one.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/pp/Sergey_Malinka_small.JPG
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:35:PM
Yes I will go and get you one... :)

Thanks...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:36:PM
This might be helpful Mike... http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERGEY-MALINKA.htm#p6p1459
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:37:PM
This is a young Malinka....I will try and find an older one.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/pp/Sergey_Malinka_small.JPG

He looks a bit like a young Gary Lineker:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:38:PM
Hahahahaha

Here is an older one but the PJ has taken out the eyes...http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P6/06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1464.jpg
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:40:PM
2. RECORD OF PAEDOPHILE MATERIAL

Alison informs us that 4 years ago her boyfriend Cristian was spending two nights at Sergei Malinka's home when, upon going to send an email from one of Sergei's computers and upon joining an attachment he saw paedophile material. When asked for explanations, Sergei told him that it was a client's computer and that he would denounce the fact to the pertinent authorities the following day.

That is what Alison told us.

Alison's phone number: ******

The telephone conversation with Alison is attached:

Original Spanish text here (note the telephone conversation is not in the files):


Mike this was never followed up by the PJ...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:47:PM
Hahahahaha

Here is an older one but the PJ has taken out the eyes...http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P6/06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1464.jpg

Wonder if he matched or resembled any of the identikit images?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:47:PM
Here is the older one. with eyes...:)

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 10:48:PM
well what do you think? Bottom right...looks familiar...?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:51:PM
Here is the older one. with eyes...:)

OK...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 10:53:PM
well what do you think? Bottom right...looks familiar...?

Off hand, do you know to which sightings photofit image 4 was associated with?

It's ok I found the relevant information in Kates book:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 11:02:PM
Off hand, do you know to which sightings photofit image 4 was associated with?

I'm not sure, I think it was the man seen at the wall, below the garden, several times by a young girl and her mother.....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 11:11:PM
The above sighting is very interesting since I have a gut feeling this could have been Malinka visiting the adjoining apartment 5B to where Maddie disappeared or was removed soon afterwards? He apparently had links to the apartment block, but not to the ground floor apartment (5B) he was seen to be leaving. This was the apartment being used by Matt Oldfield, who as you know left to check apartment 5A at around 9:30pm along with Russell O'Brien. I have a very strong gut feeling that Russell O'Brien, Matt Oldfield and Jane Tanner could have been in cohoots with Malinka, and that some sort of an arrangement was / has been made to extract Maddie from 5A...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 11:14:PM
I'm not sure about that Mike. It's a tough one to prove...

If I had my way I would be questioning the Smiths.....at length.  :)

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 05, 2012, 11:17:PM
The above sighting is very interesting since I have a gut feeling this could have been Malinka visiting the adjoining apartment 5B to where Maddie disappeared or was removed soon afterwards? He apparently had links to the apartment block, but not to the ground floor apartment (5B) he was seen to be leaving. This was the apartment being used by Matt Oldfield, who as you know left to check apartment 5A at around 9:30pm along with Russell O'Brien. I have a very strong gut feeling that Russell O'Brien, Matt Oldfield and Jane Tanner could have been in cohoots with Malinka, and that some sort of an arrangement was / has been made to extract Maddie from 5A...

I am also now very interested in the reference made by Jane Tanner to Leicester police about an earlier check made on the McCann children by Russel earlier in the week, where Tanner refused to name the person accompanying Russell into 5A? To my suspicious mind I think there is a very good chance that this unidentified person was none other than, Sergey Malinka...

If true...

Everything seems to point to the disappearance of Maddie involving a number of the tapas group members, namely, Matt Oldfield (5B), Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner (5D), and Sergey Malinka...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 11:24:PM
Mike, after all of this happened, guess where Malinka came to stay....Yep here in England.

I will find you his alias names...I think there was 3 and 3 different passport....A genuine man does not have alias and 3 passports...does he...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 11:36:PM
Mike he worked for this company...Corlett Lines Company..he had a yacht in Lagos. or was it Potimaeo  :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 05, 2012, 11:48:PM
This is also interesting, but he has the times wrong....on the phone calls, because now you can track a mobile call and it's receiver.  Which the PJ did....

But it highlight Malinka car that was set of fire and the words FALA....meaning Talk in English almost a year after Madeleine went missing...

http://the-elite-and-child-abduction.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/did-sergey-malika-took-pictures-of.html

Mike I don't normally look at blogs sights, because they are not real evidence, but the above is worth a look....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 06:01:AM
It is crucial for the police to find out two things, (1) - when did Russell O'Brien check apartment 5A earlier in the week to which Jane Tanner refers in her Leicester police interview, and (2) - find out the identity of the person who accompanied him on that occasion, who was someone that Tanner was frightened of identifying to the police...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 06:32:PM
It is crucial for the police to find out two things, (1) - when did Russell O'Brien check apartment 5A earlier in the week to which Jane Tanner refers in her Leicester police interview, and (2) - find out the identity of the person who accompanied him on that occasion, who was someone that Tanner was frightened of identifying to the police...

Was this other visit by Russell and an accomplice earlier in the week linked to what Maddie complained of to Kate? Why would both children be wide awake and crying for their parents?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 06, 2012, 06:37:PM
Was this other visit by Russell and an accomplice earlier in the week linked to what Maddie complained of to Kate? Why would both children be wide awake and crying for their parents?

I'm sure it was David Payne Mike?....No one else went with anyone to check the children...Not from what I have read.

Talking about Malinka...This is his car that was torched and the word FALA meaning TALK....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 09:10:PM
I'm sure it was David Payne Mike?....No one else went with anyone to check the children...Not from what I have read.

Talking about Malinka...This is his car that was torched and the word FALA meaning TALK....

I am more interested in what was written on the rear door, and its meaning?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on June 06, 2012, 09:41:PM
I hope one day the Mcanns get answers. It may take years though. Like the case of Etan Patz which has just been back in the headlines.....that little boy bless. Breaks my heart - he was such a good looknig young man and deserved so much better in life.

Fuck that evil bastard who dared hurt him.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 10:24:PM
I hope one day the Mcanns get answers. It may take years though. Like the case of Etan Patz which has just been back in the headlines.....that little boy bless. Breaks my heart - he was such a good looknig young man and deserved so much better in life.

Fuck that evil bastard who dared hurt him.

Have you seen this:-

Do you think it resembles Kate McCann?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 06, 2012, 10:26:PM
What is it Mike?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 10:27:PM
What is it Mike?

Look closely - can you make out an image of Kate McCann reaching out towards an image of Maddies face?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 06, 2012, 10:32:PM
OK...

Try looking at this then - an image of a person grabbing hold of a small child?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 06, 2012, 10:33:PM
I hope one day the Mcanns get answers. It may take years though. Like the case of Etan Patz which has just been back in the headlines.....that little boy bless. Breaks my heart - he was such a good looknig young man and deserved so much better in life.

Fuck that evil bastard who dared hurt him.

Do you think they have the right man for this awful tragedy mat?

I also 2nd your last sentence.... :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 06, 2012, 10:35:PM
I can't see things like that Mike.....I think we see what we want to believe we see. Alls I see is a burnt out car....What I would like to know is who and why?

The PJ never followed it up.... :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on June 06, 2012, 11:54:PM
Do you think they have the right man for this awful tragedy mat?

I also 2nd your last sentence.... :(

I do hope so, but with only his statement to say he did it - who knows. Could be a loon, wouldn't be the first time.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 07, 2012, 01:50:PM
I am more interested in what was written on the rear door, and its meaning?
Mike.......it looks to me like it says Galetra......which means "summit".
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on June 07, 2012, 03:40:PM
I haven't got " that feeling " that Madeleine is dead. Most times I can say yes,,but not in this case at all.
She's been whisked away probably by those who have already been interviewed,,or involved. It'll come to light in due course.  Yet more sensationalised headlines and bad policing.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 07, 2012, 03:51:PM
OK...

Lookout look at this....you know who the man is don't you?  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 07, 2012, 03:53:PM
I always found it interesting that Murat visited his sister,who lives near Russell OBrien and Jane Tanner,shortly before the Mccann and friends holiday.I believe that these three knew each other before the holiday.I think that there is a link between OBrien,Tanner,Murat and Malinka and that they hold the answers as to what happened to Maddie.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 07, 2012, 04:28:PM
Oh and possibly Raymond Hewlett.Throw him into the mix.I think he may possibly be the man that actually took her from the apartment.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 07, 2012, 05:46:PM
Oh and possibly Raymond Hewlett.Throw him into the mix.I think he may possibly be the man that actually took her from the apartment.

Hi Tyler, he was wanted in the UK for child abuse.  He was also in Portugal at the time. He moved out of Portugal a few days later after Madeleine disappeared. He took his then family to camp site in France. According to witnesses there, he was obsessed with talking about Madeleine.

I think he refused to answer question when he went to Germany for treatment for his cancer. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2012, 06:36:PM
Murat and Malinka possibly linked to derelict building across road from church at PDL where Maddie was taken on night she disappeared...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 07, 2012, 08:21:PM
Murat and Malinka possibly linked to derelict building across road from church at PDL where Maddie was taken on night she disappeared...

I am convinced that evidence exists inside the derelict building and its grounds to help prove she was taken there on the night of her disappearance...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: tyler on June 07, 2012, 10:27:PM
Hi Tyler, he was wanted in the UK for child abuse.  He was also in Portugal at the time. He moved out of Portugal a few days later after Madeleine disappeared. He took his then family to camp site in France. According to witnesses there, he was obsessed with talking about Madeleine.

I think he refused to answer question when he went to Germany for treatment for his cancer. :)
Hi Patti........yeah,I know a little about him but I read that he made a hasty exit to a camp site in Morocco following Maddies disappearance.Unless he went to France and then on to Morocco?I wonder how he could afford to move around so much considering he was said to have been living hand to mouth.By trafficking children perhaps?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on June 07, 2012, 10:59:PM
this hewlit guy was supposed to have weeks to live that was 3 years ago but i havent read anything about him dying all very strange.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on June 07, 2012, 11:01:PM
this hewlit guy was supposed to have weeks to live that was 3 years ago but i havent read anything about him dying all very strange.
Ill people's prognosis is always only a generalisation nugnug, no one really knows how long any person will live. Some people live for very many years after theyv'e been told they only had a short time to live.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on June 07, 2012, 11:04:PM
well they say only the good die young.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on June 08, 2012, 05:46:AM
Hi Patti........yeah,I know a little about him but I read that he made a hasty exit to a camp site in Morocco following Maddies disappearance.Unless he went to France and then on to Morocco?I wonder how he could afford to move around so much considering he was said to have been living hand to mouth.By trafficking children perhaps?

Hi Tyler :) I could be wrong about the Countries....It could have been Morocco. Yeah, where did he get the money from?????
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2012, 05:12:AM
I have a feeling that there is going to be a development in this case within the next four weeks, a really major development...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2012, 01:08:PM
"Come and get me, Mr Mike, make them come and find me"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2012, 01:42:PM
She is here:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 10, 2012, 07:26:AM
Truth revealed incantation


"Moon and tide save help me now,
I seek the truth here not yet found,
For underneath the fog there lies,
new possibilities for I,
So let this night be unlike others,
And let the noble show their colors,
And let the meek and cowards run,
For now the moon seeks out her sun,
And by the power that is three,
So as I will it, so mote it be."
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 10, 2012, 07:35:AM
 A secondary visual trace image representing the person carrying off Maddie, present at this location:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 10, 2012, 08:44:PM
Maddie is here:-
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on June 10, 2012, 08:46:PM
I have a feeling that there is going to be a development in this case within the next four weeks, a really major development...

I hope so, Mike. Really do.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 11, 2012, 09:24:PM
The Portuguese police seized a door key from a suspect which fitted the lock in the front door of the derelict building opposite the church at PDL. At the time it was seized the police thought it was a spare key to the door lock on the roadside front door of apartment 5A, but a similar lock is fitted to the door of the aforementioned derelict building...

Use of this key gave access to the building from the road outside and across from the church at PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 23, 2012, 07:49:AM
Police need to look more closely at the relationships between tapas group members, and other suspects...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on June 23, 2012, 10:03:PM
Maddie - judgement day is loo.ing large for those involved in her disappearance and death...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on June 23, 2012, 10:13:PM
Maddie - judgement day is looming large for those involved in her disappearance and death...

I doubt it Mike. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Gillian on July 06, 2012, 01:17:PM
Hi Mike

I was just wondering whether you had seen the report today on Yahoo regarding a development in the case.  The police are investigating reports of a claim by Stephen Birch, using radar scans, that Madeline is buried near to the apartment where she disappeared. 

I would be interested in your thoughts regarding this and wonder whether you think the site described is the same as the one you have described in recent months.   :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 06, 2012, 10:07:PM
Hi Mike

I was just wondering whether you had seen the report today on Yahoo regarding a development in the case.  The police are investigating reports of a claim by Stephen Birch, using radar scans, that Madeline is buried near to the apartment where she disappeared. 

I would be interested in your thoughts regarding this and wonder whether you think the site described is the same as the one you have described in recent months.   :)

Hi Gillian

I have just been reading about this, the guy has been at it years. If memory serves me right Kate mentions him in her book.......It's a load of nonsense if you ask me. It just puts strain on the parents, but you never know....

One day, hopefully Kate and Gerry will have some sort of closure... :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on July 06, 2012, 10:17:PM
i cant belive that anyone could have buried that close to where she was taken without being noticed.

i also cant belive the body could have layed there all that time without somebody digging it up.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 06, 2012, 10:23:PM
i cant belive that anyone could have buried that close to where she was taken without being noticed.

i also cant belive the body could have layed there all that time without somebody digging it up.

Hi nugnun, there were a lot of road works going on at the time, when Madeleine disappeared....The PJ  interviewed the foreman of the road works and he told the police that he personally had checked the ditches and there were no signs of anything....the PJ failed to inspect the dug up roads...taking the foreman's words....

Did you know there are many tunnels underneath the resort that have never been checked... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 12:17:AM
PDL that is where it began and that is where the answers lay..... 8)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 08:06:AM
I recently mentioned that within about three weeks there would be a major development in the case - could this be the news I was referring to?

Please click on link address:-

(1) - http://www.lfpress.com/news/world/2012/07/06/19959721.html
(2) - http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/06/man-claims-to-have-found-madeleines-body
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 08:17:AM
Psychic confirms Maddie is in the spirit world:-

Read article:-

(1) - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4316621/TV-psychic-Derek-Acorah-in-sick-Maddie-dead-claim.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ajross on July 07, 2012, 08:56:AM
Psychic confirms Maddie is in the spirit world:-

Read article:-

(1) - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4316621/TV-psychic-Derek-Acorah-in-sick-Maddie-dead-claim.html

Who do you think killed her Mike?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 09:21:AM
Who do you think killed her Mike?

Someone in the group, and or a contact who knew one of the group...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ajross on July 07, 2012, 10:04:AM
Someone in the group, and or a contact who knew one of the group...

Why? Do you think it was an accident? I have to say that I agree with you
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 10:28:AM
Why? Do you think it was an accident? I have to say that I agree with you

I think Maddie could have died after inadvertently consuming adult recreational drugs, in the possession of one of the group, and that the other little (Tanner) girl who also consumed some of the same drug, turned out to be violently sick, but she survived. I am 99.9% certain that this is what happened. It was an accident, but her death was obviously brought on by the consumption of these recreational drugs. That was / is why they got rid of her body, because one or other of the group had in their possession illegal adult recreational drugs, which would have had serious consequences for them  (Criminally) legally and career wise...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 10:58:AM
I think Maddie could have died after inadvertently consuming adult recreational drugs, in the possession of one of the group, and that the other little (Tanner) girl who also consumed some of the same drug, turned out to be violently sick, but she survived. I am 99.9% certain that this is what happened. It was an accident, but her death was obviously brought on by the consumption of these recreational drugs. That was / is why they got rid of her body, because one or other of the group had in their possession illegal adult recreational drugs, which would have had serious consequences for them  (Criminally) legally and career wise...

If you read through the statements of group members there appears to have been a frantic period whilst GM was playing tennis on the evening before Maddies disappearance off the face of the earth, where one member of the group was wanting to know where Kate and Maddie was? This was because at that time somebody had become aware that the Tanner child had taken some of the recreational drug I am speaking about? The group member wanted to see if Maddie was having similar symptoms as the Tanner child, and that night Maddie died, and the Tanner child was very poorly, vomiting, sweating, hallucinating, etc., but she survived...

This is what the group have covered up...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ajross on July 07, 2012, 11:36:AM
If you read through the statements of group members there appears to have been a frantic period whilst GM was playing tennis on the evening before Maddies disappearance off the face of the earth, where one member of the group was wanting to know where Kate and Maddie was? This was because at that time somebody had become aware that the Tanner child had taken some of the recreational drug I am speaking about? The group member wanted to see if Maddie was having similar symptoms as the Tanner child, and that night Maddie died, and the Tanner child was very poorly, vomiting, sweating, hallucinating, etc., but she survived...

This is what the group have covered up...

I have a very, very basic knowledge of this case so all of that makes very interesting reading, thank you
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on July 07, 2012, 01:23:PM
if someone did bury her body near by they would have to know the area very well i dont see how a tourist could.

there tunnels that have never been checked but how many people knew about these tunnels i doubt if any tourists did.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 07, 2012, 01:29:PM
I agree with nugnug it would have to be a local person who would know about the tunnels and to have buried Maddie close by again would have to be somebody with knowledge of the area and this would not be a tourist.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 03:36:PM
I agree with nugnug it would have to be a local person who would know about the tunnels and to have buried Maddie close by again would have to be somebody with knowledge of the area and this would not be a tourist.

Not necessarily, tourists can easily stumble upon such isolated places as I did...

But...

I think in the circumstances of this case, whoever was / is responsible utilized local knowlege from someone resident in the locality...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 03:39:PM
I agree with nugnug it would have to be a local person who would know about the tunnels and to have buried Maddie close by again would have to be somebody with knowledge of the area and this would not be a tourist.

Local knowlege to help dispose of the body, yes - but act of death as a result of drug related overdose was I Think / fell main group related?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 03:41:PM
Psychic confirms Maddie is in the spirit world:-

Read article:-

(1) - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4316621/TV-psychic-Derek-Acorah-in-sick-Maddie-dead-claim.html

Hi Mike

I don't believe in Psychics and that Derek Acorah is a fake.........Sorry!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 03:43:PM
I think Maddie could have died after inadvertently consuming adult recreational drugs, in the possession of one of the group, and that the other little (Tanner) girl who also consumed some of the same drug, turned out to be violently sick, but she survived. I am 99.9% certain that this is what happened. It was an accident, but her death was obviously brought on by the consumption of these recreational drugs. That was / is why they got rid of her body, because one or other of the group had in their possession illegal adult recreational drugs, which would have had serious consequences for them  (Criminally) legally and career wise...

No way Mike. There was no way they could have hidden her body....She was taken.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 03:53:PM
Hi Mike

I don't believe in Psychics and that Derek Acorah is a fake.........Sorry!  :) :) :)

I don't actually believe he is a fake. I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. In the example given suggesting he was proved to be a fake, what you have to remember is that there is no proof at all that Acorah overheard anything being spoken about beforehand? It is just as likely that Acorah picked up on the thoughts being projected by the would be exposee.  That is what psychics do, they appear to be able to tune in, to events past and present, living, dead, real or imaginary events. I know there are one or two charletans out there professing to be the realthing when they are not? But I for one do not think Acorah falls into that category...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 04:00:PM
I don't actually believe he is a fake. I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. In the example given suggesting he was proved to be a fake, what you have to remember is that there is no proof at all that Acorah overheard anything being spoken about beforehand? It is just as likely that Acorah picked up on the thoughts being projected by the would be exposee.  That is what psychics do, they appear to be able to tune in, to events past and present, living, dead, real or imaginary events. I know there are one or two charletans out there professing to be the realthing when they are not? But I for one do not think Acorah falls into that category...

It would be interesting to get Acorah into the apartment in PDL to see what he comes up with? I would also like him to visit the church and the derelect building and its grounds across the way? Also, a sit in the hire car...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 04:05:PM
No way Mike. There was no way they could have hidden her body....She was taken.  :) :) :)

She was taken, yes - out of the apartment by involvement of one or two group members, in the knowlege and with the co- opration of others. It would have been very easy to conceal her body, that part of PDL has an abudance of isolated places that could have been and were used to great effect...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 07, 2012, 04:05:PM
Hi Patti  I think Maddie was taken for what reason I don,t know,  Patti can you remember Ben Needham he was from Sheffield I think he was taken in Crete I think when he was three years old.  He would now be about 24 his Mother has never stopped looking for him but of course she had no help back then even the local police would not help for awhile.  Terrible for a parent not to know where their child is I think they will think all kinds of things and the McCanns will never forgive themselves for leaving her alone.  So so sad.   Hope you are managing to keep afloat :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 07, 2012, 04:10:PM
I think Maddie could have died after inadvertently consuming adult recreational drugs, in the possession of one of the group, and that the other little (Tanner) girl who also consumed some of the same drug, turned out to be violently sick, but she survived. I am 99.9% certain that this is what happened. It was an accident, but her death was obviously brought on by the consumption of these recreational drugs. That was / is why they got rid of her body, because one or other of the group had in their possession illegal adult recreational drugs, which would have had serious consequences for them  (Criminally) legally and career wise...

Hi Mike

Not too sure they wld have been into recreational drugs more likely just a few bottles of wine :).  By all accounts the McCanns were fitness fanatics and in my experience this doesn't go hand in hand with recreational drugs.  If they did there's no way they wld have risked carrying them through customs so they would have had to purchase them locally  :-\.  Would they have a supplier on tap and would they risk the quality from what is likely to have been an unknown source?  The medi prof are big into boozing.  More alcoholics in that profession than any other.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Buddy on July 07, 2012, 04:19:PM
IMO the parents had no involvement, But the friends may of had. This was the first visit by the Mc cannes, but not for the friends, who may have known about the tunnels.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 07, 2012, 04:20:PM
No way Mike. There was no way they could have hidden her body....She was taken.  :) :) :)

Hi Patti

Long time no speak. 

What about the body of Gareth Williams in the holdall?  Perhaps she was moved several times.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 07, 2012, 04:32:PM
IMO the parents had no involvement, But the friends may of had. This was the first visit by the Mc cannes, but not for the friends, who may have known about the tunnels.

Hi Buddy

I've never thought the McCanns had any involvement but suspected one of the so-called Tapas 7.  It's not a very nice theory and I obviously have no evidence so I will refrain from posting it.

Other possibilites are that Madeline woke up, *wandered off and was snatched by an opportunist or that she fell into the nearby roadworks which I don't believe were ever properly searched.

*This is the theory put forward my Mark Williams-Thomas who was the presenter on the recent JB docu.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Buddy on July 07, 2012, 04:53:PM
Hi Buddy

I've never thought the McCanns had any involvement but suspected one of the so-called Tapas 7.  It's not a very nice theory and I obviously have no evidence so I will refrain from posting it.

Other possibilites are that Madeline woke up, *wandered off and was snatched by an opportunist or that she fell into the nearby roadworks which I don't believe were ever properly searched.

*This is the theory put forward my Mark Williams-Thomas who was the presenter on the recent JB docu.
I respect your views E, but do not believe that Maddi wandered off. She was IMO taken by someone she knew, or she would have yelled her head off. Sadly I believe that Maddi is dead, but I would love to be proved wrong. Such a pretty girl.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 04:54:PM
I don't actually believe he is a fake. I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. In the example given suggesting he was proved to be a fake, what you have to remember is that there is no proof at all that Acorah overheard anything being spoken about beforehand? It is just as likely that Acorah picked up on the thoughts being projected by the would be exposee.  That is what psychics do, they appear to be able to tune in, to events past and present, living, dead, real or imaginary events. I know there are one or two charletans out there professing to be the realthing when they are not? But I for one do not think Acorah falls into that category...

My Aunt went to see him a few years ago and he was bhooooo'd of stage......I don't believe in things like that Mike...I do believe in 2nd sense and spirit but not talking to aids such as Sam....He has made money out of people's sadness...It would have to be something worth while to convince me he is cosha... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 07, 2012, 05:00:PM
Hi egap1 and Buddy  if Maddie was taken what do you think the reason for this was.  Perhaps she was sold to a childless couple who would pay top dollar for a beautiful little girl or something more sinister..I think the appartment was watched and the McCanns, movements monitored and the selling of children is rife in some of the Countries outwith Britiain.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 07, 2012, 06:07:PM
Hi egap1 and Buddy  if Maddie was taken what do you think the reason for this was.  Perhaps she was sold to a childless couple who would pay top dollar for a beautiful little girl or something more sinister..I think the appartment was watched and the McCanns, movements monitored and the selling of children is rife in some of the Countries outwith Britiain.

Hi Susan

As I said my theory involving a member of the Tapas 7 is without a scrap of evidence and isn't very nice so I wldn't really feel happy posting it on the forum.  I'm sure you can use your imagination although you might prefer not to.

I don't think she was snatched to order.  She was a beautiful adorable little girl but most of them are most of the time.  Why would she be singled out?  If it was some highly organised group or even a disorganised group that wanted a child for a childless couple or a paedo ring they would have attempted a repeat either in a nearby resort if they were disorganised or further afield in Europe or Americas, Asia, Africa if organised.  As far as I'm aware there hasn't been any similar cases reported.

Statistically most child abuse/abduction is carried out by persons known.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 06:30:PM
My Aunt went to see him a few years ago and he was bhooooo'd of stage......I don't believe in things like that Mike...I do believe in 2nd sense and spirit but not talking to aids such as Sam....He has made money out of people's sadness...It would have to be something worth while to convince me he is cosha... :) :) :) :)

That's fair enough, You can believe anything or in anything you want to, but even though your aunt had that experience and related it to you, it still doesn't make me think or feel that he was / is a fake, because mediums cannot always perform to order...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 07, 2012, 06:36:PM
Hi egap1  I am still confused as to why Maddie would disappear if not snatched to order.  You probably wont remember Ben Needham who was abducted outside his grandparents home in Greece in 199l he was 21months old never been seen or heard of since.  His poor Mother is still looking for him.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 06:40:PM
That's fair enough, You can believe anything or in anything you want to, but even though your aunt had that experience and related it to you, it still doesn't make me think or feel that he was / is a fake, because mediums cannot always perform to order...

Mike I love my Aunt dearly, she sat in a circle for 10 years and claims to see things that no ordinary people can see. She tells me some right ole stories...My Aunt is convinced in her own mind that she sees things and hears things; I don't doubt that she does and, she is one that does not lie.....but, as much as love her, I don't believe in that sort of thing...

You are correct we all have different beliefs.....I have had some rather strange things happen to me, but there has always been a logical explanation for them, except for one incident that no one could explain......

There is something false about that guy in my eyes, Mike......BTW, I have just posted something about Betty Shrine over on book review thread regarding what she said to Colin.... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 07, 2012, 07:16:PM
Hi egap1  I am still confused as to why Maddie would disappear if not snatched to order.  You probably wont remember Ben Needham who was abducted outside his grandparents home in Greece in 199l he was 21months old never been seen or heard of since.  His poor Mother is still looking for him.

Hi Susan

I will pm you my theory on Maddie but I have to go for the daily run now so it will have to be tomorrow.

I do remember the Ben Needham case.  Again my theory on this involves the family.  Watched a docu a while back and apparently one theory is that Ben's uncle took Ben on the back of his motorbike, as was often the case, but on this occasion he fell fatally.  The brother who was young, late teens/early twenties, panicked and buried Ben on a nearby building site. :(  That's what I believe happened  :(

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 07:16:PM
Mike I love my Aunt dearly, she sat in a circle for 10 years and claims to see things that no ordinary people can see. She tells me some right ole stories...My Aunt is convinced in her own mind that she sees things and hears things; I don't doubt that she does and, she is one that does not lie.....but, as much as love her, I don't believe in that sort of thing...

You are correct we all have different beliefs.....I have had some rather strange things happen to me, but there has always been a logical explanation for them, except for one incident that no one could explain......

There is something false about that guy in my eyes, Mike......BTW, I have just posted something about Betty Shrine over on book review thread regarding what she said to Colin.... :) :) :) :)

Thanks for that, it was a most interesting explanation - I also believe and know that there are some amongst us who do have a very strong sixth sense, which appears to be amplified in so many ways depending upon who that person is, and the type of subject matter they get these feelings about?  Some people appear to be able to sense danger, sense if someone is telling the truth, sense well - being, unhappiness, luck, love, misfortune, or impending danger or misfortune.  I am one such person, I posses a very strong sense when I visit certain places or buildings, or when I meet people, or see photographs of them. This ability / affliction quite often is so overpowering that it causes me to lose sleep. In the case of Acorah, I get the impression that he is genuine, although I accept that he put a bit of a show on when he starred in the TV series, "Most haunted"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 07, 2012, 07:24:PM
Wow egap1  thanks for the info on Ben Needham I did read that they thought after an accident he was buried near to the farmhouse.  Enjoy your run. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 07:28:PM
There are those in the group who know, exactly what fate befell Maddie...

"Mr Mike, don't let them forget where I am"...

I won't...

I won't...

I won't...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 08:46:PM
Wow egap1  thanks for the info on Ben Needham I did read that they thought after an accident he was buried near to the farmhouse.  Enjoy your run. :)

Hi Susan, yes I remember the Ben Needham disappearance well, for the family came from my town.  I never followed it like the Madeleine case.

It was said at the time that workmen saw a white car parked in the lane at the time Ben disappeared, but I don't think it was ever followed up.

I just found this, whilst you get ready for your pole dancing lol  ;D ;D
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/investigation.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on July 07, 2012, 08:51:PM
seems to have been rather a concerted efort by the police to find a scapegoat and i must wonder why this is.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 07, 2012, 08:51:PM
Thanks for that, it was a most interesting explanation - I also believe and know that there are some amongst us who do have a very strong sixth sense, which appears to be amplified in so many ways depending upon who that person is, and the type of subject matter they get these feelings about?  Some people appear to be able to sense danger, sense if someone is telling the truth, sense well - being, unhappiness, luck, love, misfortune, or impending danger or misfortune.  I am one such person, I posses a very strong sense when I visit certain places or buildings, or when I meet people, or see photographs of them. This ability / affliction quite often is so overpowering that it causes me to lose sleep. In the case of Acorah, I get the impression that he is genuine, although I accept that he put a bit of a show on when he starred in the TV series, "Most haunted"...

Hi Mike

Have you always felt this way? I wish I could believe in things like that.....It is true that there are many stories surrounding psychic's and there ability to see things out of the ordinary....It's amazes me how one can have this knowledge. I suppose the mind is incredible in it's own way....one wonders if the mind holds many things we have yet to discover.

The Most Haunted series was rubbish....That blond never shut up, she was enough to make any ghost jump.....lol  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 09:23:PM
Hi Mike

Have you always felt this way? I wish I could believe in things like that.....It is true that there are many stories surrounding psychic's and there ability to see things out of the ordinary....It's amazes me how one can have this knowledge. I suppose the mind is incredible in it's own way....one wonders if the mind holds many things we have yet to discover.

The Most Haunted series was rubbish....That blond never shut up, she was enough to make any ghost jump.....lol  :) :) :) :)

It was  tv series, after all...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 07, 2012, 09:57:PM
Remains of Maddie allegedly found close to apartment where she went missing from:-

(1) - http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/western-cape/i-ve-found-maddie-cape-man-1.1336216

Location of body appears to have been found between 410 and 426 foot away from the apartment where Maddie went missing from, which places Murat back in the frame if Maddies remains are found buried at identified spot. It should also be remembered that Murat was /is a property agent who had the keys for the derelict building in his possession, or at least he had access to the building at the time Maddie went missing in 2007...

(2) - http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_959-e1332369512893.jpg

(3) - http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/casaliliana.jpg
(4) - http://regretsandramblings.com/2012/03/22/murats-home/
(5) - http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/murats-Property-e1332371664548.jpg
(6) - http://regretsandramblings.com/2012/07/07/expresso-interview-birch/
(7) - http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ClearMuratHouseDM_468x291.jpg
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 08, 2012, 07:45:AM
Morning Patti  thanks for the thread on Ben Needham very informative the Greek Police just a waste of space. Don,t pole dance Saturdays just Friday and an odd one during the week, :) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 08, 2012, 07:48:AM
Morning egap1  read the thread put up by Patti last night on Ben Needham.  Very interesting.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 08, 2012, 09:07:AM
Morning Patti  thanks for the thread on Ben Needham very informative the Greek Police just a waste of space. Don,t pole dance Saturdays just Friday and an odd one during the week, :) ;) ;)

Morning Susan, you must give me some tips on how to swing round a pole using one leg hahahahah

The police investigation of Ben's, mirror that of the PJ in Portugal a disaster....

Some case just remain a mystery and most likely will never be solved....this is where theories begin....I believe in both cases the children were taken.

Child trafficking is rife in Europe..... several children had disappeared over the 7 years in a 20 mile radius to PDL....Amaral got the sack for his handling of the missing Portuguese girl prior to the disappearance of Madeleine, he was disgraced as a copper, then came the book...tsk!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 08, 2012, 09:19:AM
Sara Sofia Lopes Dos Santos missing 2009 aged 3
Madeleine B McCann Aged 3
Sofia Catarina de Oliveags aged 2
Paula Mesquita Mendes age 6

Just a few missing missing children from 2005...  :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 08, 2012, 09:25:AM
Not sure if this is correct, but it says 30 children have disappeared since Madeleine.  The PJ say it was very rare....surely that is a lie...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4296421/30-kids-lost-in-Portugal-since-Maddie-went-missing.html?oo=41627709
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 08, 2012, 09:59:AM
Good Morning Patti and my other loyal subject Bridget.,  I think Maddie and Ben were both taken and sold and it was a planned abduction don,t really agree with egaps theory that Ben fell off is Uncle,s motorbike and died and was buried in panic on the building site.  Think she said she watched a programme on it so it may have been somebody elses theory.  Surprised you only have one leg I am sure Bridget mentioned earlier that you had 4 when you said she was super clued to your back leg :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 08, 2012, 10:38:AM
More news links to find / discovery of Maddies grave at Murats property:-

(1) - http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/sa-man-found-maddie-s-grave-claim-1.1335678
(2) - http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/07/06/british-detectives-investigate-maddie-grave-claims/
(3) - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-probe-madeleine-grave-theory-215231168.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 08, 2012, 01:26:PM
Seems like someone made a huge booby and the property where Murat lived was not searched at all - his mothers property was though (Next door)...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 08, 2012, 07:11:PM
Good Morning Patti and my other loyal subject Bridget.,  I think Maddie and Ben were both taken and sold and it was a planned abduction don,t really agree with egaps theory that Ben fell off is Uncle,s motorbike and died and was buried in panic on the building site.  Think she said she watched a programme on it so it may have been somebody elses theory.  Surprised you only have one leg I am sure Bridget mentioned earlier that you had 4 when you said she was super clued to your back leg :)

Hi Susan :) I had two legs when I last looked, sometimes wish I had a few more, so I could win my dog at catch ball....

To be fair we don't know what happened to either of them, but I don't go with murder within the family, but on saying that it is more likely, but I doubt it in these two cases.... :) :) :)

Where is Bridget...whoof whoof... :D :D :D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 08, 2012, 07:17:PM
Hi Patti  Bridget has gone since Alfie arrived on the forum :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 08, 2012, 07:22:PM
Hi Patti  Bridget has gone since Alfie arrived on the forum :) :) :)

Ha! She is probably ironing...lol

Where is Keira?  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 08, 2012, 07:26:PM
Hi Patti  goodness knows where that Bridget has gone hope it is not up a storm drain her favourite place to be in the rain. :)  Think Keira is just having a rest she is so busy with her work and house and being a mod and looking after her wee cat who is not very well but she will be back really miss her.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Roch on July 08, 2012, 08:11:PM
Quote
Where is Keira?

I emailed her but she must be busy?  Hopefully we will see her on the forum soon  :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 08, 2012, 09:50:PM
I emailed her but she must be busy?  Hopefully we will see her on the forum soon  :)

Hi Rochford

Yes I was wondering about Nuala.  I hope she's ok.  Perhaps she has a problem with her cat.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 08, 2012, 10:06:PM
Good Morning Patti and my other loyal subject Bridget.,  I think Maddie and Ben were both taken and sold and it was a planned abduction don,t really agree with egaps theory that Ben fell off is Uncle,s motorbike and died and was buried in panic on the building site.  Think she said she watched a programme on it so it may have been somebody elses theory.  Surprised you only have one leg I am sure Bridget mentioned earlier that you had 4 when you said she was super clued to your back leg :)

Hi Susan

Yes I think I said it was my theory but I just typed that in a hurry I meant to say it was my belief. Initially I didn't know what to think other than sympathy for the family.  But having watched the docu I believe it was a tragic accident.  Ben's uncle was only 17 and I think he just panicked and then found there was no turning back.  :(

If you're interested in murder mystery cases check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumont_children_disappearance

Imagine losing all three of your children in mysterious circumstances with no conclusion.  Poor family  :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 08, 2012, 10:33:PM
I wonder how long it will take the Portuguese police to go and dig up the grounds at Murats place?

I was told it would all be over and done with within three weeks, so why the delay? Tell ya what though, there will be one or two worried group members expecting the police to come a knocking at their door any time soon if it turns out to be where Maddie has finally been laid to rest?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 09, 2012, 07:45:AM
Morning egap1  Thanks for the post on the Beaumont children what a creepy story the poor parents having to live with the disappearance of their three children.  Does not bear thinking about. :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: egap1 on July 09, 2012, 12:35:PM
Thanks for that, it was a most interesting explanation - I also believe and know that there are some amongst us who do have a very strong sixth sense, which appears to be amplified in so many ways depending upon who that person is, and the type of subject matter they get these feelings about?  Some people appear to be able to sense danger, sense if someone is telling the truth, sense well - being, unhappiness, luck, love, misfortune, or impending danger or misfortune.  I am one such person, I posses a very strong sense when I visit certain places or buildings, or when I meet people, or see photographs of them. This ability / affliction quite often is so overpowering that it causes me to lose sleep. In the case of Acorah, I get the impression that he is genuine, although I accept that he put a bit of a show on when he starred in the TV series, "Most haunted"...

Hi Mike

What you consider to be your sixth sense may be linked to the way you process info see attached:

http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/a/left-brain-right-brain.htm

I personally don't believe in psychics, palm readers, horoscopes etc, etc but I do believe there's some truth in the above and that some people have an acute sense of intuition.

Apparently most children have a sixth sense which they gradually lose.  As a child I had an imaginary friend  :) My parents said they wld usher me in the car and go to close the door and I wld say "No Jinnty hasn't got in yet" Or the table wld be laid and I'd say "You haven't set a place for Jinnty".  When I obtained a copy of my original birth cert I discovered my birth mother's name was Jennifer aka Jenny which is kind of similar to Jinnty.  Probably just a coincidence. :-\ 

I wonder if Sheila had an imaginary friend and if she did if June was as accommodating as my adoptive parents were?

Anyone want to fess up about having an imaginary friend?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Janet on July 09, 2012, 12:47:PM
Hi Mike

What you consider to be your sixth sense may be linked to the way you process info see attached:

http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/a/left-brain-right-brain.htm

I personally don't believe in psychics, palm readers, horoscopes etc, etc but I do believe there's some truth in the above and that some people have an acute sense of intuition.

Apparently most children have a sixth sense which they gradually lose.  As a child I had an imaginary friend  :) My parents said they wld usher me in the car and go to close the door and I wld say "No Jinnty hasn't got in yet" Or the table wld be laid and I'd say "You haven't set a place for Jinnty".  When I obtained a copy of my original birth cert I discovered my birth mother's name was Jennifer aka Jenny which is kind of similar to Jinnty.  Probably just a coincidence. :-\ 

I wonder if Sheila had an imaginary friend and if she did if June was as accommodating as my adoptive parents were?

Anyone want to fess up about having an imaginary friend?


I had one as a child too.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Jane J on July 09, 2012, 03:33:PM
Hi Mike

What you consider to be your sixth sense may be linked to the way you process info see attached:

http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/a/left-brain-right-brain.htm

I personally don't believe in psychics, palm readers, horoscopes etc, etc but I do believe there's some truth in the above and that some people have an acute sense of intuition.

Apparently most children have a sixth sense which they gradually lose.  As a child I had an imaginary friend  :) My parents said they wld usher me in the car and go to close the door and I wld say "No Jinnty hasn't got in yet" Or the table wld be laid and I'd say "You haven't set a place for Jinnty".  When I obtained a copy of my original birth cert I discovered my birth mother's name was Jennifer aka Jenny which is kind of similar to Jinnty.  Probably just a coincidence. :-\ 

I wonder if Sheila had an imaginary friend and if she did if June was as accommodating as my adoptive parents were?

Anyone want to fess up about having an imaginary friend?


Hi, egap. What do you mean, imaginary!!!!!? William was real, it wasn't my fault if others couldn't see him!!!! Mind you, he was rather naughty!!!!!
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 12, 2012, 12:04:AM
View the evidence showing where the body of Maddie McCann is buried, obtained by Stephen Birch, at the Murat property, PDL - on the following you tube link:-

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 12, 2012, 12:14:AM
View the evidence showing where the body of Maddie McCann is buried, obtained by Stephen Birch, at the Murat property, PDL - on the following you tube link:-

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg
Very interesting.  I wonder what will happen as a result of this.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 14, 2012, 08:00:AM
A further link to Stephen Birch find of Maddie grave:-

(1) - http://expresso.sapo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 14, 2012, 08:06:AM
A further link to Stephen Birch find of Maddie grave:-

(1) - http://expresso.sapew seciond driveway at the Murat premises, I would like to think that they will also look into the original grave site at the derelict property across the road from the church at PDLo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713

Whilst Scotland yard and Portuguese police are contemplating whether or not to dig up the second driveway at the Murat premises, I would also like to think that they will also go to the grounds of the derelict building across the road from the church at PDL, where the body of Maddie was taken and originally buried. There is a link between Murat and his associates and the derelict building that I identified...

To view ghost of "Maddie photograph" please visit following link address:-

(1) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386.0;attach=1117;image

Here is the original site where body of Maddie was hidden:-

(2) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386.0;attach=2202;image
(3) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386.0;attach=2192;image
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 14, 2012, 08:33:AM
I believe these were / are the clothes worn by the person who carried off Maddie that night:-

(1) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386.0;attach=2158;image
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 15, 2012, 01:37:AM
Latest up to date news about find of Maddie grave:-

(1) - http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/260768
(2) - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/madeleine-mccanns-grave-found_n_1653768.html
(3) - http://indepth.news.sky.com/InDepth/topic/Madeleine%20McCann
(4) - http://www.metro.co.uk/news/904404-madeleine-mccann-in-portugal-grave-theory-being-examined-by-police
(5) - http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/07/06/british-detectives-investigate-maddie-grave-claims/
(6) - http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2012/07/06/has-madeleine-mccanns-grave-been-found-by-a-saffa/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 15, 2012, 02:11:AM
Thanks for those links Mike.  Well, there's only one thing for it, isn't there!  Where's the harm in digging a little hole?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 15, 2012, 02:15:AM
Thanks for those links Mike.  Well, there's only one thing for it, isn't there!  Where's the harm in digging a little hole?

I agree...

I wonder who laid the driveway, and when?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 16, 2012, 11:17:AM
I understand Stephen Birch is going back to Portugal to assist the Portuguese lolice who have provisionally re-opened the case...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 16, 2012, 05:14:PM
I understand Stephen Birch is going back to Portugal to assist the Portuguese lolice who have provisionally re-opened the case...
Thanks for the update Mike, sounds very promising.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Buddy on July 17, 2012, 05:31:PM
"Come and get me, Mr Mike, make them come and find me"...
To be honest mike I think your emotions have overtaken the facts. Maddie does not know you from Adam. If she was crying from the grave then surely she would be crying for mummy, or daddy.
Sadly I believe that Maddie is dead, but do not think that her parents had any part in her death. I do think that it was stupidity to leave the childen alone, but they must have thought it was safe, as they were close at hand, and were making regular visits to the house.
You are not posessed with magical powers[ I think], so we can only have assumptions.
All this Mr Mike does nothing for me, though I would be happy to be proved wrong.
TBH I am more interested in springing Jeremy.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on July 17, 2012, 05:48:PM
i think the mcans were accused for a reson there seems to me to have been a delbrate efort to frame them
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 04:40:AM
"Come and get me, Mr Mike, make them come and find me"...

Ghost of Maddie photograph:-

(1) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386.0;attach=1161;image
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: bob on July 19, 2012, 11:04:AM
i think the mcans were accused for a reson there seems to me to have been a delbrate efort to frame them
That's right nugnug. It seems almost certain now, that they were getting to the truth about the framing of Bamber, so they had to be framed  ::)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 04:24:PM
I think it was natural for the McCanns to fall under suspicion. People jsut do not understand how parents could leave their children in a hotel room - it doesn't add up logically.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 19, 2012, 05:10:PM
Hi Mat I have always wondered why they left Maddie alone as it would appear the complex offered baby sitting service free of charge and for peace of mind they could have used the service.  They are certainly suffering now and will do till the end of their days I think. :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 05:28:PM
I think it was natural for the McCanns to fall under suspicion. People jsut do not understand how parents could leave their children in a hotel room - it doesn't add up logically.
Mat, lot's of people leave their sleeping children in hotel rooms, or did before this event. Rightly or wongly, I knew lots of people who did when my children where small.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 05:31:PM
I don't think it is the what the majority do though, which is why the McCanns came under fire, people were repulsed.

I can't imagine leaving my son in a hotel room whilst I went out to eat with friends, I just wouldn't do it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 19, 2012, 05:38:PM
Hi Mags  I could never have left my son on his own the only person I ever did leave him with was my own Mother because I knew if he woke up he would feel safe but we are all different :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 05:40:PM
I don't think it is the what the majority do though, which is why the McCanns came under fire, people were repulsed.

I can't imagine leaving my son in a hotel room whilst I went out to eat with friends, I just wouldn't do it.
I agree with you when I was in a hotel when my children were small if I went out of the room I had a baby listening device even if I was using the hotel baby sitting service but many people would leave their children in a hotel bedroom while they ate etc.,, just checking on them every so often.  Times have changed since then and most people didn't see anything wrong with it.  I wa a fusspot with my kids compared to most.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 05:48:PM
Hi Mags  I could never have left my son on his own the only person I ever did leave him with was my own Mother because I knew if he woke up he would feel safe but we are all different :)
I know susie, I always worried about them waking up with me not  there, but honestly I used to go on weekend breaks with loads of other people with babies etc., they used to leave them asleep in their rooms while they went and ate dinner, had drinks etc.  I think a lot of people pretended later after the McCann case that they didn't but loads of people did.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on July 19, 2012, 05:55:PM
Hi Mags  I know what you mean I use to go on a "girls night out" and we would be in the pub till closing time one of the girls was a single Mother and she use to leave her small daughter home alone asleep I once asked her what would happen if the child woke up she said oh she wont do that.  Of course now you would be, quite rightly so, be prosecuted  for such a thing.  The thoughts of leaving my boy alone gives me goose bumps even now.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 06:00:PM
Hi Mags  I know what you mean I use to go on a "girls night out" and we would be in the pub till closing time one of the girls was a single Mother and she use to leave her small daughter home alone asleep I once asked her what would happen if the child woke up she said oh she wont do that.  Of course now you would be, quite rightly so, be prosecuted  for such a thing.  The thoughts of leaving my boy alone gives me goose bumps even now.
I know susie, that's really awful, but I suppose people did it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 19, 2012, 06:39:PM
Back in the day at British holiday camps, parents would get their children off to sleep and head off to the entertainment centre for a drink.  Staff would patrol the chalets and if they heard children crying inside, the chalet number would come up on a display in the entertainment hall, to alert the parents. 

The McCanns apartment was within sight of the bar they were eating/drinking at.  My guess is that the abducter knew the McCanns routine and took their opportunity.  I found the treatment that they received after Maddies disappearance, very unsavory.  I can't imagine the stress that they must have been under.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 06:52:PM
Back in the day at British holiday camps, parents would get their children off to sleep and head off to the entertainment centre for a drink.  Staff would patrol the chalets and if they heard children crying inside, the chalet number would come up on a display in the entertainment hall, to alert the parents. 

The McCanns apartment was within sight of the bar they were eating/drinking at.  My guess is that the abducter knew the McCanns routine and took their opportunity.  I found the treatment that they received after Maddies disappearance, very unsavory.  I can't imagine the stress that they must have been under.
It's true Neil, at least they could see the apartment, when in a dining room or bar at an hotel you couldn't even see the room, it could be miles way.  No one thought, there may be a fire nevermind someone creeping in through a patio door or something and pinching them.
It is sadly, because of the dissappearance of Madeleine McCann that we are now so much more aware. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 19, 2012, 07:17:PM
It's true Neil, at least they could see the apartment, when in a dining room or bar at an hotel you couldn't even see the room, it could be miles way.  No one thought, there may be a fire nevermind someone creeping in through a patio door or something and pinching them.
It is sadly, because of the dissappearance of Madeleine McCann that we are now so much more aware.
Quite right Maggie, I bet no one would dare leave their kids in such circumstances after that.  I couldn't leave my kids like that, just because I would feel really mean. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 07:20:PM
Quite right Maggie, I bet no one would dare leave their kids in such circumstances after that.  I couldn't leave my kids like that, just because I would feel really mean.
Yes, Neil the thought of them waking up in a strange room on their own worried me too much, I do feel for the McCann's and anyone else it has happened to, it's the worst possible nightmare.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 08:11:PM
Although they could see the apartment, they couldn't see all angles of the complex and they couldn't see the room in which the children where in.

To me it seems like looknig at your front door and waiting for something to happen, when all along you've left the back door out of view.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Neil on July 19, 2012, 08:34:PM
Although they could see the apartment, they couldn't see all angles of the complex and they couldn't see the room in which the children where in.

To me it seems like looknig at your front door and waiting for something to happen, when all along you've left the back door out of view.
Of course you are right Mat but physiologically, perhaps being able to see the apartment gave them a false sense of security.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 08:35:PM
Of course you are right Mat but physiologically, perhaps being able to see the apartment gave them a false sense of security.

Yeah that's a good point.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 08:47:PM
Funny thing about the night Maddie went missing - none of the other members iof the so called tapas group knew that the McCanns had left the patio door on the poolside of the apartment open until just before the 9:30pm check, when two group members volunteered to go and check apartment 5A on behalf of the McCanns...

Key feature in my opinion relating to her disappearance...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 08:48:PM
Mike, by left the doors open do you mean unlocked or open as in not closed?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:06:PM
Mike, by left the doors open do you mean unlocked or open as in not closed?

My understanding is that the McCanns had always left the patio door which leads out on  to the veranda unlocked (but pulled too) when they went out to wine and dine at the poolside tapas bar, and that they did not alert anyone to this fact, and no-one amongst their group suspected them of doing it,  until just before 9:30pm, on the evening that Maddie went missing. This came about because one of the volunteers asked for the key to the apartment and he was told by Kate McCann that there was no need for use of such a key because the patio door on the pool side of the apartment (which could just about be seen from where the McCanns were situated) had been left unlocked and could be slid open? You then had the check made by the two volunteers, and the contradictory accounts about whether they went into the apartment, or listened at the patio door?  One thing is for sure and that is that Maddie was not taken from the apartment by anyone using the patio door visible from the poolside tapas restaurant...

Now...

If Maddie had already been taken by the time these two volunteers offered to go and check the McCann apartment at about 9:30pm, how strange that any would be abductor would know not to use the unlocked patio doors on the poolside of the building, considering that no-one knew this to be true, until Kate told one of the two volunteers at about 9:30pm, and that as a result of this information being passed by Kate to the volunteer, that he should go along to the apartment with another and return saying that everything was tickety boo, with the McCann kids at that time? Oddly, the other volunteer did not return back to the tapas bar, until much later, which begs the question did this volunteer play any role in Maddies disappearance? If Maddie was in bed inside apartment 5a at the time of the 9:30pm check, then one of the two volunteers was away from the tapas bar at about the right moment when Maddie was taken after the so called 9:30pm check...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:14:PM
I have personally stood on the veranda by the aforementioned patio doors (of apartment 5a) and looked back across to where the tapas bar restaurant was / is situated and even at night you would be able to see any activity if anyone went into the apartment through these patio doors from the vantage point of where the McCanns claim they were when the 9:30pm check was made or undertaken - and it is rather peculiar that neither parent claims they saw either of the two volunteers enter the apartment via the unlocked patio doors?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 19, 2012, 09:17:PM
My understanding is that the McCanns had always left the patio door which leads out on  to the veranda unlocked (but pulled too) when they went out to wine and dine at the poolside tapas bar, and that they did not alert anyone to this fact, and no-one amongst their group suspected them of doing it,  until just before 9:30pm, on the evening that Maddie went missing. This came about because one of the volunteers asked for the key to the apartment and he was told by Kate McCann that there was no need for use of such a key because the patio door on the pool side of the apartment (which could just about be seen from where the McCanns were situated) had been left unlocked and could be slid open? You then had the check made by the two volunteers, and the contradictory accounts about whether they went into the apartment, or listened at the patio door?  One thing is for sure and that is that Maddie was not taken from the apartment by anyone using the patio door visible from the poolside tapas restaurant...

Now...

If Maddie had already been taken by the time these two volunteers offered to go and check the McCann apartment at about 9:30pm, how strange that any would be abductor would know not to use the unlocked patio doors on the poolside of the building, considering that no-one knew this to be true, until Kate told one of the two volunteers at about 9:30pm, and that as a result of this information being passed by Kate to the volunteer, that he should go along to the apartment with another and return saying that everything was tickety boo, with the McCann kids at that time? Oddly, the other volunteer did not return back to the tapas bar, until much later, which begs the question did this volunteer play any role in Maddies disappearance? If Maddie was in bed inside apartment 5a at the time of the 9:30pm check, then one of the two volunteers was away from the tapas bar at about the right moment when Maddie was taken after the so called 9:30pm check...

That's interesting. That's actually...compelling.

I have personally stood on the veranda by the aforementioned patio doors (of apartment 5a) and looked back across to where the tapas bar restaurant was / is situated and even at night you would be able to see any activity if anyone went into the apartment through these patio doors from the vantage point of where the McCanns claim they were when the 9:30pm check was made or undertaken - and it is rather peculiar that neither parent claims they saw either of the two volunteers enter the apartment via the unlocked patio doors?

From the tapas bar what windows/doors are there that wouldn't be in sight?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:28:PM
That's interesting. That's actually...compelling.

From the tapas bar what windows/doors are there that wouldn't be in sight?

The door and the all the windows on the road side of the apartment, and the window on the gable end of apartment 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:33:PM
Lets look at this from a different perspective - we have the second volunteer staying behind at his own apartment to look after a sick child at about the time Maddie goes missing from apartment 5a - and his partner just so happens to be the witness who claims she saw a long haired zombie type of a man carrying off a child in his arms earlier in the evening in the general direction of Robert Murats villa? She is also absent at the time Kate leaves the tapas bar to do her 10pm check at the time she discovers Maddie to have been taken - "They have taken her, Maddie is gone"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 19, 2012, 09:36:PM
It was Matthew Oldfield that checked on Madeleine about 9:30 before Kate's check just before 10pm. Matthew did not enter the room, he sees the twins, but does not see Madeleine.  If only he had entered the bedroom.

When Kate entered the apartment, she experienced, what I would call a vortex when she was about to close the bedroom door, it slammed shut. This is important, because it means there has to be two open windows or doors...in the apartment, but she claimed to have closed the patio door too. She then enters the bedroom and the shutter was up and the window open....

The served a purpose, but it was forensically proved that the window had not been used. The window was opened for a reason....for an escape by an abductor. This method is used by any tactical team...It was also used by the WHF team raid.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:37:PM
Lets look at this from a different perspective - we have the second volunteer staying behind at his own apartment to look after a sick child at about the time Maddie goes missing from apartment 5a - and his partner just so happens to be the witness who claims she saw a long haired zombie type of a man carrying off a child in his arms earlier in the evening in the general direction of Robert Murats villa? She is also absent at the time Kate leaves the tapas bar to do her 10pm check at the time she discovers Maddie to have been taken - "They have taken her, Maddie is gone"...

Lo and behold, it is these persons who thrust Robert Murat into the fray, by claiming that they had seen him hanging around the apartment block on the night Maddie went missing -  a fact consistently denied by Murat...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:46:PM
It was Matthew Oldfield that checked on Madeleine about 9:30 before Kate's check just before 10pm. Matthew did not enter the room, he sees the twins, but does not see Madeleine.  If only he had entered the bedroom.

When Kate entered the apartment, she experienced, what I would call a vortex when she was about to close the bedroom door, it slammed shut. This is important, because it means there has to be two open windows or doors...in the apartment, but she claimed to have closed the patio door too. She then enters the bedroom and the shutter was up and the window open....

The served a purpose, but it was forensically proved that the window had not been used. The window was opened for a reason....for an escape by an abductor. This method is used by any tactical team...It was also used by the WHF team raid.  :) :) :)

Vortex could only have been created or generated because two windows, or a window and a door was open at the same time. I know this to be true, because whilst I was staying in the next apartment block which had a very similar design to the layout inside apartment 5a, I carried out and conducted experiments to see what could have caused the vortex which Kate McCann describes having occurred. The fact is, that if the bedroom window had been open when Kate first opened the unlocked patio door to enter the apartment at the time of her 10pm check, the bedroom door would almost certainly have slammed shut at that stage or time. Similarly, if the door on the roadside of the apartment had already been open when Kate entered apartment 5a via the unlocked patio door, the bedroom door would again have slammed shut by the dynamics of the vortex, aforementioned...

Fact is...

When Kate entered apartment 5a at the time of her 10pm check, there was no window or door open, otherwise the bedroom door would have almost certainly slammed shut, but it did not, at least not until later...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 19, 2012, 09:53:PM
Vortex could only have been created or generated because two windows, or a window and a door was open at the same time. I know this to be true, because whilst I was staying in the next apartment block which had a very similar design to the layout inside apartment 5a, I carried out and conducted experiments to see what could have caused the vortex which Kate McCann describes having occurred. The fact is, that if the bedroom window had been open when Kate first opened the unlocked patio door to enter the apartment at the time of her 10pm check, the bedroom door would almost certainly have slammed shut at that stage or time. Similarly, if the door on the roadside of the apartment had already been open when Kate entered apartment 5a via the unlocked patio door, the bedroom door would again have slammed shut by the dynamics of the vortex, aforementioned...

Fact is...

When Kate entered apartment 5a at the time of her 10pm check, there was no window or door open, otherwise the bedroom door would have almost certainly slammed shut, but it did not, at least not until later...

I have tried the same Mike....My son thinks I have lost the plot sometimes. But I did the experiment in my own home upstairs, because the downstairs doors are too heavy. I left my bedroom window open and opened my bathroom window...at first I could not get anything to happen, so I left the door ajar for a while....My son came in the front door and guess what, my bedroom door slammed shut....

Could there have been someone inside the apartment when Kate was there? Was it an intruder going back for the twins and crept out of either the front door or back door...

I'm like you with Mike there had to be another souse of air coming in...to cause the vortex... :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 09:59:PM
Vortex could only have been created or generated because two windows, or a window and a door was open at the same time. I know this to be true, because whilst I was staying in the next apartment block which had a very similar design to the layout inside apartment 5a, I carried out and conducted experiments to see what could have caused the vortex which Kate McCann describes having occurred. The fact is, that if the bedroom window had been open when Kate first opened the unlocked patio door to enter the apartment at the time of her 10pm check, the bedroom door would almost certainly have slammed shut at that stage or time. Similarly, if the door on the roadside of the apartment had already been open when Kate entered apartment 5a via the unlocked patio door, the bedroom door would again have slammed shut by the dynamics of the vortex, aforementioned...

Fact is...

When Kate entered apartment 5a at the time of her 10pm check, there was no window or door open, otherwise the bedroom door would have almost certainly slammed shut, but it did not, at least not until later...

I was very meticulous in the way I carried out these experiments, and I came to the conclusion that if Kate closed the unlocked patio door behind her when she first went into apartment 5a during her 10pm check, then of course there could be no vortex to cause the bedroom door to slam shut once she had closed the patio door, as she claimed she had done, providing the bedroom window, or another door (roadside) was not open at that time or by that stage. So in a nutshell, when Kate entered 5a, via patio door there was no window or other door open at that stage. She then closes the patio door and goes to check on her children...

As she walks inside apartment 5a, she makes her way to the bedroom door which has not slammed shut at this stage. She can see the door on the roadside of the apartment and it must have been closed otherwise she would have easily been able to see it in the open position? But let us assume that the roadside door is fractionally open and Kate did not notice this for whatever reason, and she pushed the bedroom door open and takes a peak inside and reports that she could see the twins, but did not physically see Maddie,. But what she notices is that the door is slightly open wider than when it had been set earlier when she and Jerry had gone out to eat. She resets the bedroom door and then Whooosh, the bedroom door slams shut, and she quickly opens the door to the bedroom and as she does so, the curtains fly open and she can see the window is open and the steel shutter raised...

Sorry - I just do not believe this account, it is too far fetched and can easily be exposed as untrue...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 19, 2012, 10:03:PM
mmmmmm What about if there was a build up of air? Maybe she didn't close the patio doors?

Mike I need to ask you if you have any statements from Elliot, regarding the window at WHF?

Good night to you..  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: maggie on July 19, 2012, 10:05:PM
mmmmmm What about if there was a build up of air? Maybe she didn't close the patio doors?

Mike I need to ask you if you have any statements from Elliot, regarding the window at WHF?

Good night to you..  :) :) :)
Night Patti ;D
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 19, 2012, 10:08:PM
Night Patti ;D

Just caught you maggie...good night to you. X
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 19, 2012, 10:11:PM
I have tried the same Mike....My son thinks I have lost the plot sometimes. But I did the experiment in my own home upstairs, because the downstairs doors are too heavy. I left my bedroom window open and opened my bathroom window...at first I could not get anything to happen, so I left the door ajar for a while....My son came in the front door and guess what, my bedroom door slammed shut....

Could there have been someone inside the apartment when Kate was there? Was it an intruder going back for the twins and crept out of either the front door or back door...

I'm like you with Mike there had to be another souse of air coming in...to cause the vortex... :) :) :)

I think Jane Tanner was there with Kate in the apartment...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 20, 2012, 05:11:AM
KEY FEATURES WORTHY OF RECONSIDERATION:-
--------------------------------------------------------

(1) - The very first occasion that anyone other than the McCanns, knew the patio doors to apartment 5a were unlocked, was when Kate told one of the group this at around 9:30pm. This is significant because any would be abductor did not force any window shutter to gain access to the premises. Whoever took Maddie or removed her body from apartment 5a, did so by entering the premises via (a) the unlocked patio door on the poolside of the premises or (b) by use of a door key to the door on the roadside of the premises. This is very interesting because the person who gave the information to one of the group that access to apartment 5a at around 9:30pm, and the person who had control and possession of the keys to the roadside door at the time Maddie was discovered to be missing, was / is Kate McCann...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 20, 2012, 10:51:AM
KEY FEATURES WORTHY OF RECONSIDERATION:-
--------------------------------------------------------

(1) - The very first occasion that anyone other than the McCanns, knew the patio doors to apartment 5a were unlocked, was when Kate told one of the group this at around 9:30pm. This is significant because any would be abductor did not force any window shutter to gain access to the premises. Whoever took Maddie or removed her body from apartment 5a, did so by entering the premises via (a) the unlocked patio door on the poolside of the premises or (b) by use of a door key to the door on the roadside of the premises. This is very interesting because the person who gave the information to one of the group that access to apartment 5a at around 9:30pm, and the person who had control and possession of the keys to the roadside door at the time Maddie was discovered to be missing, was / is Kate McCann...

(2) - Jane Tanners sighting of the faceless man carrying off the child who could have been Maddie, conveniently takes the two group members who learned about the patio doors of apartment 5a being left unlocked at around 9:30pm, out of the equation and they did not find out about that until 20 minutes or so after Jane Tanner saw the child in the mans arms (around 9:10pm) - how lnconvenient was / is that?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on July 20, 2012, 04:59:PM
(2) - Jane Tanners sighting of the faceless man carrying off the child who could have been Maddie, conveniently takes the two group members who learned about the patio doors of apartment 5a being left unlocked at around 9:30pm,  and did not find out about that until 20 minutes or so after Jane Tanner saw the child in the mans arms (around 9:10pm) - how lnconvenient was / is that?

Very.
If I had all this information in front of me.. I would come to the same conclusion as the officer in charge did ( who can blame him?! ) it would be a possibility in my mind.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on July 20, 2012, 06:20:PM
Sorry guys, but I don't buy any other theory other than an abduction.

Jane Tanner sees a man carrying a child approx 9:10

The Smith family of 7 also saw a man carrying a child at approx 9:45

All witnesses give similar descriptions.

All witnesses did not know each others statements...so if there is doubt here then there is 8 more people
telling lies about what they saw that night.

Plus all the witnesses who claim to have seen a man hanging around the apartment prior to Madeleine going missing....

 :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 03:50:AM
(2) - Jane Tanners sighting of the faceless man carrying off the child who could have been Maddie, conveniently takes the two group members who learned about the patio doors of apartment 5a being left unlocked at around 9:30pm, out of the equation and they did not find out about that until 20 minutes or so after Jane Tanner saw the child in the mans arms (around 9:10pm) - how lnconvenient was / is that?

(3) - When the two group members went to check apartments at about 9:30pm, armed with the knowlege that the patio doors to apartment 5a were unlocked, either Maddie was already gone and missing, or still asleep in her bed. Now depending upon which version of events you choose to believe (because at least two different accounts have been given) when one of the opened the unlocked patio doors, if the bedroom window, or the door on the roadside of the premises had been opened, it would have caused the bedroom door to slam shut (as later described by Kate ), but it did not. This must mean that when the 9:30pm check was made, Maddie must have still been inside the bedroom, and that the bedroom window and corresponding steel shutter at that window, and the door on the roadside of the premises had been closed at that stage, otherwise the checker would have noticed something similar to that described by Kate when she says she discovered Maddie to be missing at 10pm? If Maddie was still in bed inside apartment 5a when the 9:30pm check was made then the sighting by Jane tanner (2) could not be a reference to anyone carrying off Maddie beforehand...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 03:57:AM
(3) - When the two group members went to check apartments at about 9:30pm, armed with the knowlege that the patio doors to apartment 5a were unlocked, either Maddie was already gone and missing, or still asleep in her bed. Now depending upon which version of events you choose to believe (because at least two different accounts have been given) when one of the opened the unlocked patio doors, if the bedroom window, or the door on the roadside of the premises had been opened, it would have caused the bedroom door to slam shut (as later described by Kate ), but it did not. This must mean that when the 9:30pm check was made, Maddie must have still been inside the bedroom, and that the bedroom window and corresponding steel shutter at that window, and the door on the roadside of the premises had been closed at that stage, otherwise the checker would have noticed something similar to that described by Kate when she says she discovered Maddie to be missing at 10pm? If Maddie was still in bed inside apartment 5a when the 9:30pm check was made then the sighting by Jane tanner (2) could not be a reference to anyone carrying off Maddie beforehand...

(4) - Maddie went missing from inside apartment 5a, between Jerry's check at about 9pm, and the second check carried out at about 9:30pm (and which included the sighting by Jane Tanner of the man carrying the child during the relevant period), or she went missing at the time of the 9:30pm check, or after the 9:30pm check, and before the last check carried out by Kate at 10pm, or she went missing or was taken at 10pm...

Event (1) - Maddie went missing or was taken between 9pm and 9:30pm
Event (2) - Maddie went missing at 9:30pm
Event (3) - Maddie went missing between 9:30pm and 10pm
Event (4) - Maddie went missing at 10pm...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 04:05:AM
(4) - Maddie went missing from inside apartment 5a, between Jerry's check at about 9pm, and the second check carried out at about 9:30pm (and which included the sighting by Jane Tanner of the man carrying the child during the relevant period), or she went missing at the time of the 9:30pm check, or after the 9:30pm check, and before the last check carried out by Kate at 10pm, or she went missing or was taken at 10pm...

Event (1) - Maddie went missing or was taken between 9pm and 9:30pm
Event (2) - Maddie went missing at 9:30pm
Event (3) - Maddie went missing between 9:30pm and 10pm
Event (4) - Maddie went missing at 10pm...

Jane Tanners sighting could only have been a reference to Maddie being taken by the man she saw carrying a child if event (1) - above is the true explanation about what took place and how it happened in real time. If any of the other events (2), (3), and (4), occurred, Jane Tanners sighting of the man carrying a child had nothing whatsoever to do with the disappearance of Maddie from apartment 5a...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 04:07:AM
Jane Tanners sighting could only have been a reference to Maddie being taken by the man she saw carrying a child if event (1) - above is the true explanation about what took place and how it happened in real time. If any of the other events (2), (3), and (4), occurred, Jane Tanners sighting of the man carrying a child had nothing whatsoever to do with the disappearance of Maddie from apartment 5a...

If event (1) - above is true and accurate, then the checks carried out at 9:30pm and 10pm, don't make sense, or add up....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 04:09:AM
If event (1) - above is true and accurate, then the checks carried out at 9:30pm and 10pm, don't make sense, or add up....

Additionally, the check carried out at about 9pm, by Jerry, needs to be looked into further - including why he was delayed before returning to the tapas bar, after the 9pm check?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: HMEssex on July 21, 2012, 09:24:AM
Aside from the Tapas 9 statements, one statement I've always found intriguing is one made by another holidaymaker at the time, Stephen Carpenter, who says that he, his wife and children left the Tapas Bar between 9.15 and 9.30 and his wife heard someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", as they crossed the road to get to their apartment.

This is 30 - 45 mins before Kate raised the 'official' alarm.






Thought I'd bump this info re timings.

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk

Click on the 'original dvd images' box.
Halfway down it says 'cartas rogatorias'  you want file 3, 31-56
There's a read in English option!

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 09:04:PM
(4) - Maddie went missing from inside apartment 5a, between Jerry's check at about 9pm, and the second check carried out at about 9:30pm (and which included the sighting by Jane Tanner of the man carrying the child during the relevant period), or she went missing at the time of the 9:30pm check, or after the 9:30pm check, and before the last check carried out by Kate at 10pm, or she went missing or was taken at 10pm...

Event (1) - Maddie went missing or was taken between 9pm and 9:30pm
Event (2) - Maddie went missing at 9:30pm
Event (3) - Maddie went missing between 9:30pm and 10pm
Event (4) - Maddie went missing at 10pm...

Sighting of the man carrying a child by the Smith Contingent could be true no matter what time Maddie actually went missing...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 09:45:PM
Help me to Believe this time:-

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=-81pUzpsF_A
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2012, 09:50:PM
Truth of the lie, you tube video:-

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGhlYTNisw&feature=related
(2) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-bGNM54zbo&feature=relmfu
(3) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_EZCp-zJQ&feature=relmfu
(4) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx4fOjXPKH0&feature=relmfu
(5) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtbaFZ01bA&feature=channel&list=UL
(6) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e7ug0BfNy4&feature=relmfu
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 22, 2012, 04:09:PM
Come on then, get the second driveway dug up, and lets put this case to rest / bed so to speak...

Why the delay, we need action now...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on July 28, 2012, 06:02:PM
Some more links worth consideration:-

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGwvY6whtds
(2) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Bx-LS9MwD74
(3) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=lhACS6ck-Dw
(4) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Vwx3zDb7u3U
(5) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=GVkpY9dQJSk
(6) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Zqoj-pfBUnY&NR=1
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on August 12, 2012, 08:15:PM
Hi Mike

I found this today. It is well worth a read. There is loads on it.  :) :) :) :)



http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/the-abduction-of-madeleine-mccann.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Eric on August 15, 2012, 06:34:PM
If you listen to Jane Tanners statement (well interviews) there's glaring holes in it. She says the man carrying the child wasn't a tourist because he had a thick coat on and tourists wear cropped trouses but I was cold and wore a big jumper?!
Her check (which was just before the starters arrived at half nine) must have lasted half an hour, she says she left the apartment to be met by Rachel Oldfield who said Maddie was missing, she wasn't missing until after 10.
She managed to pass Jeremy Wilkins and Jerry Mccann on the street but they didn't see her.
She recognises the colour and pattern on the pj's the baby was wearing being carried by the stranger but doesn't recognise Maddie (if it was Maddie) and she see's all this while passing the man in the dark under orange street lights, I wish I was that good.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: big-goolies on August 28, 2012, 12:20:AM
---------------------

The truth about what really happened to Maddie McCann is coming out very soon, you wait and see, and when  it does, remember these words that you keep speaking...

 
still waiting
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on September 05, 2012, 05:13:PM
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMurder_of_Joana_Cipriano&ei=sHlHUKWnOaWx0QXXhYGACA&usg=AFQjCNGOh3y7uKJBsnrBBTidWPXzxN4LyA

another  case involving the same detective.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on September 05, 2012, 05:51:PM
http://amaralfiction.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on September 06, 2012, 04:31:PM
most of the anti mcann suff comes from this guy here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Bennett_(politician)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on September 08, 2012, 08:31:PM
Here it is Lookout.....http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/the-abduction-of-madeleine-mccann.html

Its very interesting.... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on September 08, 2012, 08:56:PM
Here it is Lookout.....http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/the-abduction-of-madeleine-mccann.html

Its very interesting.... :) :) :) :)

No doubt about it having been an abduction. Did you see the news about that Marc Dutroix ( spelling ) wife being released from prison into a " safe house "? Evil pair if ever there was. I wouldn't mind betting he,or even she knows something.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on September 08, 2012, 09:09:PM
No doubt about it having been an abduction. Did you see the news about that Marc Dutroix ( spelling ) wife being released from prison into a " safe house "? Evil pair if ever there was. I wouldn't mind betting he,or even she knows something.

No Lookout, not heard anything about him....I will have to google it....Obviously it has something to do with PDL....

Scotland yard have gone quite....they say no news is good news!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on September 09, 2012, 12:40:AM
No doubt about it having been an abduction. Did you see the news about that Marc Dutroix ( spelling ) wife being released from prison into a " safe house "? Evil pair if ever there was. I wouldn't mind betting he,or even she knows something.

i think they were both in jail when iy happened though.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 08, 2012, 09:35:PM
Sara Sofia Lopes Dos Santos missing 2009 aged 3
Madeleine B McCann Aged 3
Sofia Catarina de Oliveags aged 2
Paula Mesquita Mendes age 6

Just a few missing missing children from 2005..
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 08, 2012, 09:36:PM
i asume there all from portugal.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 08, 2012, 09:43:PM
i asume there all from portugal.

Yes they are nugnug....I posted this a while ago and I have bumped it for a reason....:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 08, 2012, 09:58:PM
were the from more or less the same region of portugal.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 08, 2012, 10:06:PM
were the from more or less the same region of portugal.

I don't know nugnug, but I have brought them forward so that I can do a bit of research on them.... :o ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 08, 2012, 10:08:PM
the mcanns were staying fairly near the spanish border weren't they.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 08, 2012, 10:33:PM
the mcanns were staying fairly near the spanish border weren't they.

I don't know how far they were from the border, but I will find out....Night nugnug...:)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 09, 2012, 07:27:PM
im asking this because assuming someone kidnapped her there best hope of avoiding capture would be to get out the country as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 09, 2012, 07:29:PM
im asking this because assuming someone kidnapped her there best hope of avoiding capture would be to get out the country as quickly as possible.

Or by boat from the resort?  :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 09, 2012, 07:35:PM
Just done a google search and from Praia de Luz to Isal Christina in Spain is about 157K about 1 hour and 56 minutes...So less than 100 miles, sorry I can't convert K's into miles....lolol
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: -Harters- on October 09, 2012, 07:38:PM
Just done a google search and from Praia de Luz to Isal Christina in Spain is about 157K about 1 hour and 56 minutes...So less than 100 miles, sorry I can't convert K's into miles....lolol

97.5 miles.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 09, 2012, 07:39:PM
97.5 miles.

Thank you Hartley.  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 09, 2012, 08:48:PM
so taking traffic into account about a 3 hour drive.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2012, 09:30:AM
so taking traffic into account about a 3 hour drive.

Wouldn't take 3 hours nugs.It's 99 miles from Liverpool to Birmingham and it takes just over an hour if you get a clearish run.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on October 11, 2012, 09:36:AM
Morning lookout  you sound like a boy racer you devil you.  Remind me to travel by train if I am ever  on that route. :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2012, 10:44:AM
Morning lookout  you sound like a boy racer you devil you.  Remind me to travel by train if I am ever  on that route. :) :)

Morning Susan,,,yes,I was,but it was the creme de la creme of cars.A BMW auto.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on October 11, 2012, 10:46:AM
Wow lookout and poor little me has to be content with a Reliant Robin.  No motorways for us if I go above 25mph bits drop off :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 11, 2012, 04:40:PM
Wouldn't take 3 hours nugs.It's 99 miles from Liverpool to Birmingham and it takes just over an hour if you get a clearish run.

i was make a conservative estimate based on how much traffic there might be and also assume if they had abducted a child they would probebly be carefull not to get pulled up for speeding.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2012, 08:14:PM
i was make a conservative estimate based on how much traffic there might be and also assume if they had abducted a child they would probebly be carefull not to get pulled up for speeding.


Okay,nugs,,,but it was night-time and the border between Portugal and Spain hadn't been closed,so if the vehicle went that way,it would have gone like a bat out of Hell before border control were told. As it was,it was 12 or so hours later after the horse had bolted.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 11, 2012, 08:55:PM
so they could have been in spain pretty quickly then.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 14, 2012, 10:56:AM
I don't believe the abductor had a car, otherwise he would not have been seen carrying a child 35 minutes after the abduction. 4 witnesses say they saw a man carrying a child. They all 4 described this man and child similar to what Jane Tanner said.  None of them new each other and none of them knew what each of them had said in their statement.

If this abduction was planned he would have got into a vehicle and made his get away. 

I think the man was local, or an holiday maker.....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on October 24, 2012, 10:21:PM
i dont think the mcanns were in any way involved.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on October 24, 2012, 10:24:PM
i dont think the mcanns were in any way involved.

I think xxxxxxxxxxxx was in on it, sorry...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Jo on October 28, 2012, 04:19:PM
I think it was accidental and XX helped.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on October 28, 2012, 04:33:PM
No No NO NO NO and NO WAY!  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Jo on November 07, 2012, 10:55:AM
I don't know if people are still interested in this case but there's plenty of stuff on You Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqoj-pfBUnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwx3zDb7u3U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVkpY9dQJSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NMYPsFKb8&feature=relmfu
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 07, 2012, 04:03:PM
I've followed this case from day and I am convinced that someone somewhere knows something.  I also believe she was abducted that night, by someone local or an holidaymaker.  No transport was used so this suggests that it had to be someone who was staying in PDL. 

The apartment was not treated as crime scene, nor was there any real investigation from the PJ

I hope that the McCann's will soon have some sort of closure.  There is a new investigation, lets hope they gain some answers. 

I have my suspicions of who could be involved.... :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2012, 04:13:PM
hi Mike, "in on it"? meaning not an accidental death?

I think Maddies remains will eventually be found in PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2012, 07:07:AM
Today I am once again in the north east, following up a new lead in the hunt to find out what happened to "Maddie" McCann - the omens are looking favourable...

"Come and find me, Mr Mike, don't let them forget about me"...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2012, 07:34:AM
Above photographs were taken by me near Washington, A1 this morning...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2012, 11:11:PM
Maddies remains will be found in grounds of derelict building opposite church at PDL...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2012, 11:12:PM
Maddies remains will be found in grounds of derelict building opposite church at PDL...

Somebody should go there and dig up her remains...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: big-goolies on November 17, 2012, 11:55:PM
Somebody should go there and dig up her remains...
 
 
get your spade out then
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 09:22:PM
Did Raymond Hewlett have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  He is one of my three suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237700/Did-Maddies-secret-grave-Police-reopen-investigation-paedophile-living-Algarve-vanished.html

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A5_5/apenso5_vol_5_p969.jpg
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 24, 2012, 09:28:PM
hes certainly one of mine as well.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 09:31:PM
Hi nugnug....he was never questioned properly was he...He was an ex soldier to...that is why the window was opened in my opinion, purely for escape purposes......The doors were open, there was no need for an abductor to use a window....

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 09:34:PM
Police knew about a paedo ring.

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 24, 2012, 09:59:PM
i think amoral was involved some how.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 10:04:PM
i think amoral was involved some how.

Amaral was a disgraced copper. He did not solve the crime while he was in the PJ, but claimed he had when he published his book....His only gain was money...His wife wrote to Kate...did you see her letters? What a nerve.  ???
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 24, 2012, 10:05:PM
well you can tell what sort of cop he is from that other woman's black eyes.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 10:12:PM
well you can tell what sort of cop he is from that other woman's black eyes.

He covered that up nugnug...that is why he was sacked.  He accused her of killing her daughter..then the uncle was pressured into a statement saying she had done it.....No evidence, just a few punches in a closed room....by corrupt PJ's 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 24, 2012, 10:28:PM
he would of done that to the mcanns if he could of got away with it.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 10:32:PM
he would of done that to the mcanns if he could of got away with it.

Most likely nugnug...and claimed notoriety for it amongst his colleagues.  Like in the Cipriano case.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 10:44:PM
Look alike? Or coincidence.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 24, 2012, 10:57:PM
i was kind of hopeing she was still alive thats why i clung to the abducted and driven to spain theory,
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 11:05:PM
i was kind of hopeing she was still alive thats why i clung to the abducted and driven to spain theory,

Well their is no evidence to suggest otherwise....One wonders how Hewlett got his money to travel to Morocco and then to Germany?  He had to pay his camping fees and petrol......and feed his 6 children. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 24, 2012, 11:16:PM
i was kind of hopeing she was still alive thats why i clung to the abducted and driven to spain theory,

She could have been sold nugnug.....I hate saying that, but is could be possible. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: OnceSaid on November 25, 2012, 11:52:AM
Did Raymond Hewlett have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  He is one of my three suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237700/Did-Maddies-secret-grave-Police-reopen-investigation-paedophile-living-Algarve-vanished.html

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A5_5/apenso5_vol_5_p969.jpg

I have no idea if he had any involvement or not, but to think that all these years later they are going to have another look at him is ridiculous.  He's dead.  Hewlett was jailed several times in the UK for sexually assaulting young girls, including an attack in 1978 where he put a gun to his victim's back.
 
In June 2009, before his death, West Yorkshire Police confirmed its officers were investigating Hewlett in connection with an indecent assault in 1975.

With his previous convictions, why was he not fully investigated in 2007 and repeatedly on his back whilst he was alive?  To think that this man was allowed to live with his 6 children, after these prison terms, infuriates me. 




Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: OnceSaid on November 25, 2012, 11:54:AM
i was kind of hopeing she was still alive thats why i clung to the abducted and driven to spain theory,

Me too  :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Caroline R on November 26, 2012, 10:12:PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/26/madeleine-mccann-news-late-paedophile-raymond-hewlett_n_2190562.html?ncid=webmail1
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 10:25:AM
i dont think the mcanns were in any way involved.
I'm sorry nugnug i think they were very much involved....they left 3 young children on there own ,one of them had an accident,unfortunatley died and the parents covered it up....my opinion :(
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 10:34:AM
I'm sorry nugnug i think they were very much involved....they left 3 young children on there own ,one of them had an accident,unfortunatley died and the parents covered it up....my opinion :(


Yes,the children were left,we all know this by now,,,,but the parents had nothing whatsoever to do with the childs' disappearance. Can you back-up your reasons,proof,evidence to suggest this.?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 10:54:AM

Yes,the children were left,we all know this by now,,,,but the parents had nothing whatsoever to do with the childs' disappearance. Can you back-up your reasons,proof,evidence to suggest this.?
Evidence of blood on curtains,behind settee, cadaever dogs.
Mr MCcANN being a Mason ...and no that's not evidence,just personal experience :-X
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 27, 2012, 10:58:AM
Evidence of blood on curtains,behind settee, cadaever dogs.
Mr MCcANN being a Mason ...and no that's not evidence,just personal experience :-X

Hi Jaymo

Where is this evidence?   ;) ;)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 11:04:AM
Hi Jaymo

Where is this evidence?   ;) ;)

Hi Patti, i take that Gonçalo Amaral The truth of a lie is not a favourite read of yours....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 27, 2012, 11:10:AM
Hi Patti, i take that Gonçalo Amaral The truth of a lie is not a favourite read of yours....

Hi Jaymo

Not is it not. If Amaral could not solve the crime while he was in the PJ, then he certainly couldn't solve it after his disgraced dismissal.  It's a long time since I read it, to be fair. 

The MM case will always remain a mystery for their is no evidence to suggest she was killed by her parents.

However, there is statement evidence by 5 witnesses that saw a man carrying a child in the south west of PDL To this day the man has not come forward to be eliminated.  You would think with the worlds publicity this man would have come forward to say....Hey, it was me with my daughter..  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 11:18:AM
The one thing that confuses me is that the Cadaever dogs smelt death in the car that the McCanns hired 23 days before hand and no one had hired that car before them as it was new...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 27, 2012, 11:24:AM
The one thing that confuses me is that the Cadaever dogs smelt death in the car that the McCanns hired 23 days before hand and no one had hired that car before them as it was new...

It confuses me too. Apparently they can smell cadaver form 100 years ago.  I admit dogs are very clever, but they can't talk. If you look at the car park video, the same dogs barks at a wall and an empty car parking space....The dog also goes round the McCann's car several times and does not bark...Can we really rely on them?   :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 11:27:AM
Hi Jaymo

Not is it not. If Amaral could not solve the crime while he was in the PJ, then he certainly couldn't solve it after his disgraced dismissal.  It's a long time since I read it, to be fair. 


Patti you say disgraced dismissal? Amaral,  led the investigation until October 2007 when he was removed for claiming British police were only helping with leads provided by the McCanns.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 27, 2012, 11:30:AM
Patti you say disgraced dismissal? Amaral,  led the investigation until October 2007 when he was removed for claiming British police were only helping with leads provided by the McCanns.

He wasn't dismissed for that Jaymo. He was dismissed for a cover up of his colleagues on a different case.  :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 11:34:AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1564913/Madeleine-McCann-chief-detective-sacked.html
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: Patti on November 27, 2012, 11:43:AM
That's not the case Jaymo.  The public prosecutioner accused Amoral of covering up the attack on  Leonor Cipriano in 2007.  He was dismissed because of that if memory serves me right.   :) :) :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 12:36:PM
Different papers give differing reasons for his dismissal.And having been out to Praia du Luz (golfing by the way)and spoke to people out there including ex pats and locals over 75% think Mr mcCann knows a lot more than he is letting on ,and one day he will slip up ....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 12:54:PM
Different papers give differing reasons for his dismissal.And having been out to Praia du Luz (golfing by the way)and spoke to people out there including ex pats and locals over 75% think Mr mcCann knows a lot more than he is letting on ,and one day he will slip up ....


Jaymo,,that's because the McCanns were put on trial by the media,both here and Portugal,,also by the public too. Much the same as in the JB case where fingers are often pointed at the wrong person.
I remember seeing the difference in answers online when that woman tried to extort money for the " disappearance " of her daughter ( who'd been purposely hidden ) Sharon Matthews,,,everyone showed sympathy towards this con-woman and compared life-styles etc etc,,,until the truth came out and you never heard another thing from the " sheep ".
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 01:05:PM

Jaymo,,that's because the McCanns were put on trial by the media,both here and Portugal,,also by the public too. Much the same as in the JB case where fingers are often pointed at the wrong person.
I remember seeing the difference in answers online when that woman tried to extort money for the " disappearance " of her daughter ( who'd been purposely hidden ) Sharon Matthews,,,everyone showed sympathy towards this con-woman and compared life-styles etc etc,,,until the truth came out and you never heard another thing from the " sheep ".
Lookout the McCanns put themelves on trial both here and Portugal by leaving 3 children under 5 on there own in an appartment.If Mr McCann had not been a Mason he would have been charged,but a certain ex prime minister put a stop to that.....
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 01:36:PM
Lookout the McCanns put themelves on trial both here and Portugal by leaving 3 children under 5 on there own in an appartment.If Mr McCann had not been a Mason he would have been charged,but a certain ex prime minister put a stop to that.....


Jaymo,,the fact that the McCanns left the children has been bandied around now for the past 5 and a half years. Nobody knows better than the parents themselves that they did wrong in leaving them and that's their punishment for the rest of their lives.
Mason or not,they cannot be charged for something that they didn't do.
Would you have the same attitude if they'd been from a sink estate.?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: jaymo132 on November 27, 2012, 01:46:PM

Jaymo,,the fact that the McCanns left the children has been bandied around now for the past 5 and a half years. Nobody knows better than the parents themselves that they did wrong in leaving them and that's their punishment for the rest of their lives.
Mason or not,they cannot be charged for something that they didn't do.
Would you have the same attitude if they'd been from a sink estate.?

I certainly would....this is not a class thing 2 adult people were found to have broken the law by leaving these children unattended. Lookout i have my opinion you have yours,from what i have seen ,heard and checked for myself i think they are very guilty....but yes lets debate it's good for the soul. :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 02:12:PM
I certainly would....this is not a class thing 2 adult people were found to have broken the law by leaving these children unattended. Lookout i have my opinion you have yours,from what i have seen ,heard and checked for myself i think they are very guilty....but yes lets debate it's good for the soul. :)

Yes,Jaymo,it is good to debate and to also have opposing opinions,or there'd be no room for manoeuvre.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 27, 2012, 03:02:PM
Lookout the McCanns put themelves on trial both here and Portugal by leaving 3 children under 5 on there own in an appartment.If Mr McCann had not been a Mason he would have been charged,but a certain ex prime minister put a stop to that.....

as far as i can see there is no evidence he is a mason just a wild allegation.

i have never heard of Scottish catholic Freemason before.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on November 27, 2012, 03:11:PM
nugnug  I have never heard of a Scottish Catholic Freemason either.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 03:16:PM
It depends which newspaper it happens to be,,and it also depends if you believe everything you read.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on November 27, 2012, 03:17:PM
Hi jaymo132  I agree the McCanns were wrong to leave the children unsupervised and I am sure they know that now I don't think for one moment Freemasons have the power some people think they have. 
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 27, 2012, 03:20:PM
i dont think he is one anyway.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: ngb1066 on November 27, 2012, 04:12:PM
as far as i can see there is no evidence he is a mason just a wild allegation.

i have never heard of Scottish catholic Freemason before.

Roman Catholics can become freemasons, so can Scottish people.  Am I missing something?

Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: gordo30 on November 27, 2012, 04:17:PM
Wow of course catholics can be Freemasons as its not a religous society, there are more lodges in the republic of Ireland for example than the whole of Scotland and many more in cathoilc countries. There were no less than 2 popes initiated into various masonic organisations in the past.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on November 27, 2012, 04:21:PM
Gordo30  Thank you for that we learn something everyday :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: susan on November 27, 2012, 04:25:PM
ngb  Hi No you are not missing anything other than this part of the world is very short of Catholics and that is why most Lodges don't have Catholics :)
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 27, 2012, 04:28:PM
i think the mcann acusers all miss one simpel fact to bury a body they would of needed a shovel now there is nobody who rembers selling them a shovel and they certanly dident walk through costums with one.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 04:43:PM
i think the mcann acusers all miss one simpel fact to bury a body they would of needed a shovel now there is nobody who rembers selling them a shovel and they certanly dident walk through costums with one.

Hi nugs,,the cadaver dogs would have detected something within the area surrounding the apartment,church and Tapas,,but didn't. It's because the child was carried out that the trail for the dogs was lost.

Any smells,bloodstains,etc would have appeared after the McCanns moved out of that apartment and another family of 12 moved in,which was when investigations began,so forensic tests were well contaminated.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: nugnug on November 27, 2012, 06:03:PM
and the entire worlds media were watching there every move so no chance to bury a body.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2012, 07:15:PM
and the entire worlds media were watching there every move so no chance to bury a body.


Exactly,nugs.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on November 28, 2012, 04:51:PM
MADDIE at heavens gate'-  I have just taken this photograph...
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: big-goolies on November 30, 2012, 11:19:AM
MADDIE at heavens gate'-  I have just taken this photograph...

 
does that means she is really dead then ?
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mat on November 30, 2012, 02:29:PM
MADDIE at heavens gate'-  I have just taken this photograph...

I never see faces in anything you post usually...but woah! Even I see this. Cool picture.
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: big-goolies on November 30, 2012, 05:35:PM
looks like a part foot x-ray to me
Title: Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
Post by: mike tesko on December 09, 2012, 08:50:AM
THE HIDDEN INVESTIGATION

Forward

Certainly, this book responds to the need I felt to defend myself, having been discredited by the institution for which I worked for more than twenty-six years, without being given any chance to explain myself, publicly or within the institution itself. I made the request several times, but it was never heard. I, therefore, scrupulously respected the rules of the police judiciaire and I refrained from making any comment. But this goes without saying: I experienced that silence to which I was constrained as an attack on my dignity. Later, I was removed from the investigation. It was then that I understood that it was time to speak. To do that, I requested early retirement in order to be able to express myself freely.

However, the purpose of this work is more important: to contribute to finding the truth so that justice can finally be done in the investigation known as the "Maddie case." Truth and justice are two values strongly anchored within me, which reflect my profound beliefs: they always guided the work I did for the institution to which I am proud to have belonged. Even in retirement, they continue to inspire me and to be present in my life.

In no way does this text seek to challenge the work of my colleagues in the police judiciaire or to compromise the ongoing investigation. I am convinced that the disclosure of all the facts may, in the present case, result in harming the investigation. However, the reader will have access to unpublished information, to new interpretations of events - always with respect for the law - and, of course, to relevant enquiries.

The only objective of a criminal investigation is the search for truth. There is no place for the "politically correct."

Chapter 1

Precipitation?

Certainly Not.


FEBRUARY 2008, NINE MONTHS AFTER MADDIE’S DISAPPEARANCE.

IT’S CARNIVAL SUNDAY. In the distance the shots of the hare hunters can be heard, resounding above the low-growing vegetation of the Barrocal.

On waking, I decide to stay at home. Recently, I’ve had no wish to go out, to go walking or to meet people. I yearn instead for peace and silence. That morning, the sun was shining, promise of a lovely day: but in the afternoon, the rain began to fall, ruining the fête and the parades.

From the window I admire the Algarve countryside: the pink and snowy-white of the almond trees contrasting with the blue of the sea that is glimpsed in the distance. Suddenly, the ringing of the telephone – more and more unusual of late – brings me out of my lethargy; I have to face reality.

From the receiver, a friendly voice, swinging between anger and sadness, asks me:

- How are you? Have you heard our national director’s interview?

I reply no and wonder what the clearly perceptible anxiety of my questioner is due to.

- He says we were precipitous. That placing the couple under investigation was premature….I wonder what’s come over him. He totally validated that decision. What is he intending to do? End the investigation?

He is alluding to the investigations undertaken after the disappearance of a little English girl of nearly four years of age during the night of May 3rd to 4th 2007, at the Ocean Club, one of the many tourist complexes in the village of Luz in Lagos, Portugal. She was called Madeleine Beth McCann and she was sleeping in a bedroom in the apartment block, beside her sister and her brother – twins aged 2 years. During this time, their parents were dining a hundred metres away with a group of friends and holiday companions. This news story was the beginning of a criminal investigation, unpublished in Portugal and, I think, in the rest of the world. Even so, the case benefited from unprecedented international media coverage. Numerous suggestions were put forward, mixing truth and lies; at the same time as regular information bulletins from the police, a campaign of disinformation was developed with the objective of discrediting the work of the investigators. For me, the investigations came to an end on October 2nd 2007, the date on which there seems to have been a new English ultimatum, incidentally on the same day that the Treaty of Lisbon was being discussed.

Considering the length of time I witnessed that media spectacle, including, at its height, “forcing,” by the McCann family with the disclosure of a photo-fit sketch of the alleged abductor, nothing more could have surprised me.

- Don’t worry, it’s carnival…

I follow the conversation as if it was nothing, but deep down, I have the feeling that the world is caving in.

After hanging up, I go back to contemplating the almond trees in flower, planted in the hard soil of the Algarve. I wonder if a body is resting under that earth and if God, in the end, is not a little precipitous in making these trees flower in the winter….And then I tell myself no. A memory comes to mind of the legend of this princess from a country in the north, married to a Moorish king. She spent her winter days pining for the snow of her country, which she missed. Then, the monarch had the idea of planting almond trees throughout the surrounding region. Thus, when winter arrived, from the castle window, the young woman could contemplate the white mantle of the flowering trees that covered the countryside, and her sadness was dispelled.

BRIEF DIGRESSION ON THE ALGARVE AND ITS INHABITANTS

From time immemorial, the Algarve has been a region open to the world. Its geostrategic position, its sky, its climate and the hospitality of its inhabitants have always attracted people from other regions. Phoenicians, Carthaginians and Greeks passed through here; the Romans established themselves here and set up communication routes. Numerous relics; at Estói, Vilamoura, Abicada, Vila da Luz, witness to their presence. The influence of the Moors, who spread Al-Andalus (it is thus that they named the region) to the west of Cordoba, to Al-Gharb, remains very present in the Algarvian culture.

The history of the relationship between the Algarve and England is as ancient as it is turbulent. Between 1580 and 1640, when Portugal lost its independence and was integrated into the Spanish Empire, Faro was attacked by the troops of the Count of Essex. This latter seized, amongst other assets, some precious property – not less than 3,000 volumes – from the library of the Bishop of the Algarve, Jerónimo Osório. Amongst these books was a Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) in Hebrew, printed in 1487 in Faro by Samuel Gacon, a Jewish publisher. This historic work (the first book printed in Portugal) is kept at the British Library in London. Later, the Algarvians will help the English to defend Gibraltar, a strategic place for the fleet of the British Royal Navy.

The Algarvians have always shown great independence, not hesitating to oppose any foreign domination attempt. In the 19th century, during the French invasion, the first reverses suffered by the Napoleonic troops were inflicted by the Algarvians. The population of Olhao rose up and drove the invaders back near Quelfes; young people of the town set out aboard a fragile barque to inform King John VI, then exiled in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, of the liberation of his homeland. Portugal is a country of brave and warm-hearted people, rejecting arrogance and insults, proud of their identity and independence, even from the European Union. It is also a modern state that welcomes a great many investors and tourists and moreover plays an important and recognised diplomatic role. Throughout its history, Portugal has concluded pacts, signed treaties and built bilateral alliances with many countries: the Luso-British Alliance is a good example, proof of the vitality of relations between the two countries, and above all of a deep understanding.

Nowadays, the Algarve is focused on tourism; since the 1960s, it is mostly the British who come to stay there. It is on this welcoming soil that little Madeleine disappeared.

AN INVESTIGATION DESTINED FOR THE ARCHIVES

I feel it; with that television statement, the national director has the intention of preparing public opinion for the inevitable, that is to say, the end of the investigation and the closing of the case.

I get the impression that that decision was hatched on October 2nd and that all actions taken after that date were only a matter of form, with the sole purpose of sticking to the pre-established schedule. I fear that challenging all the previous work of the investigation is only a pretext for closing a case that was beginning to undermine the police judiciaire, the investigators and Portugal. Perhaps that was why it had to come to a close.

Placing Madeleine's parents under investigation - Kate Healy and Gerald McCann as arguidos - must have marked a turning point in relations between the police in charge of the investigation and the couple. The Portuguese police officers began to consider the McCanns as potential suspects, which their British counterparts did not. At that time, the two police forces seemed to agree about exploring the hypothesis of the child's death inside the apartment. But the English police - without any really practical justification - suddenly stepped back and gave up on following that track. We have always found it strange the way the couple were treated, even after they were placed under investigation, and we have often wondered how the McCanns could have had access to information that had not been made public.

I recall various moments in the investigation, and the memories come pouring out; I think of that little girl who was not yet four years old and who was denied the right to live.

It would seem that there are preparations to smother the case, that the importance of the evidence is being minimised, that it's losing its force. Thus, the rights of that child are flouted, the rights of many other children. Who wants to get to that point? Who required my departure from the operational coordination of the investigation? Who is it who wishes to bring an end to the arguido status of the McCanns and Murat? Those who support the theory of abduction? Those who maintain - I'd go further and say that they are - that in England the suspects would already have been arrested? Or those who perpetuate the lie, in straying from the search for the material truth? The closing of the case certainly serves someone's interests.

After my departure from Portimao on October 2nd 2007, I had decided to forget about this case. Perhaps the best thing to do, considering the forces at play. If the authorities of her own country were not worried any more about what had happened to that child and they satisfied themselves with the theory of abduction, why worry myself about it? It's certainly not the unfortunate statement from a director of police (as perhaps inferred by the journalist) that will make the existing evidence be forgotten - I no longer think that was his intention. The only means of erasing the record of everything that was done would be the destruction of the official records. And then, our memory remains, that of all those set out on this investigation to discover the truth.

I receive another phone call: it's my wife Sofia. She is worried about me, and has been since May 3rd of last year, for nine months now. Previously, our marriage already knew highs and lows; after th