Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on September 19, 2020, 10:40:AM

Title: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 19, 2020, 10:40:AM
Julie didn't get the following from the newspapers -

Low house insurance.

Bible by Sheila.

Sheila's shot locations.

Kitchen fight.

Twins asleep.

Sheila putting up no resistance.

Nevill's multiple shots.

June shot in bed.

Kitchen windows.

Portable phone.

Mason clock.

Twins shot first.

Sheila shot last.

June's sleeping pills.

Sheila & the twins sleeping in different rooms on different nights.

Kitchen argument.

Shooting rabbits.

Sheila shot on parents bed.

----------

With most supporters ruling out an industrial frame, she could have only got this information from Bamber or the relatives.

It is very unlikely the relatives would be able to get this information within a month. And very unlikely they would decide to pass it onto Bamber's girlfriend, who could warn him.

It is also very unlikely the relatives would be able to contact her as Julie was constantly with Bamber.

So Julie could have only got this from Bamber.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 19, 2020, 10:49:AM
If the relatives were feeding Julie information, they would have surely told her about the silencer.

Julie's WS also has Bamber mentioning cycling to/from WHF months earlier. When mentioning his early idea of burning down WHF to her & James Richards.

Her WS says she decorated Bamber's flat while he worked. I need to find a new girlfriend!
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Steve_uk on September 19, 2020, 03:02:PM
Julie didn't get the following from the newspapers -

Low house insurance.

Bible by Sheila.

Sheila's shot locations.

Kitchen fight.

Twins asleep.

Sheila putting up no resistance.

Nevill's multiple shots.

June shot in bed.

Kitchen windows.

Portable phone.

Mason clock.

Twins shot first.

Sheila shot last.

June's sleeping pills.

Sheila & the twins sleeping in different rooms on different nights.

Kitchen argument.

Shooting rabbits.

Sheila shot on parents bed.

----------

With most supporters ruling out an industrial frame, she could have only got this information from Bamber or the relatives.

It is very unlikely the relatives would be able to get this information within a month. And very unlikely they would decide to pass it onto Bamber's girlfriend, who could warn him.

It is also very unlikely the relatives would be able to contact her as Julie was constantly with Bamber.

So Julie could have only got this from Bamber.
Adam can I just correct you on one thing? It was a Meissen clock, worth thousands of pounds today, and probably dispensed of expediently to Sotherby's like all the other heirlooms Jeremy and Brett could get their hands on post-murders.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 19, 2020, 06:23:PM
Adam can I just correct you on one thing? It was a Meissen clock, worth thousands of pounds today, and probably dispensed of expediently to Sotherby's like all the other heirlooms Jeremy and Brett could get their hands on post-murders.

Thanks.

Obviously the relatives would have briefly spoken to Julie during the month after the massacre. Bamber would have probably been with her.

So Julie found out these things from Bamber or the police. There has been recent suggestions of police corruption on here.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 20, 2020, 04:24:PM
Supporters need to confirm there was a police lead Industrial Frame. It is surprising only Lookout believes this as it is an easy way to explain the incriminating evidence.

Everyone will agree Julie could not get so much exclusive detailed  information from the relatives or newspapers.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 20, 2020, 04:55:PM
Why wouldn't it be industrial framing when everyone hated JB and above all hated the thought that he'd " Lord  " it over the extended family and workers on the farmlands. No more " hand-outs " to help them over their poor management of their businesses. I'll bet none of them slept for a month ! They weren't having that so they well and truly got their heads together writing down reams of circumstantial evidence, hearsay and general malice. They'd get him put away if it was the last thing they'd do, even without concrete proof that he did anything at all. That's industrial framing !
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 20, 2020, 05:12:PM
Why wouldn't it be industrial framing when everyone hated JB and above all hated the thought that he'd " Lord  " it over the extended family and workers on the farmlands. No more " hand-outs " to help them over their poor management of their businesses. I'll bet none of them slept for a month ! They weren't having that so they well and truly got their heads together writing down reams of circumstantial evidence, hearsay and general malice. They'd get him put away if it was the last thing they'd do, even without concrete proof that he did anything at all. That's industrial framing !

Yes it either had to be an industrial frame or Bamber is guilty.

The police giving Julie information for her WS. Very surprising they didn't tell her to include the silencer.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 20, 2020, 05:31:PM
Yes it either had to be an industrial frame or Bamber is guilty.

The police giving Julie information for her WS. Very surprising they didn't tell her to include the silencer.





Even AE forgot to mention the silencer in her first statement. So it wasn't that much of an important feature to start with. More the colour/dye of JB's hair which was the focal point.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 20, 2020, 07:15:PM




Even AE forgot to mention the silencer in her first statement. So it wasn't that much of an important feature to start with. More the colour/dye of JB's hair which was the focal point.

I'll have to check when the police got the silencer results back.

If it was before Julie's submitted WS, it is another thing that confirms Bamber's guilt. As the police would have told Julie to include the silencer in her WS if there was an industrial frame.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 20, 2020, 08:40:PM
If the silencer was still at the lab when Julie submitted her WS, the police should have still told her to include the silencer in her WS.

The police would be well aware the silencer was at the lab & may be a vital piece of evidence. No harm in including a line on it in Julie's WS.

It seems more likely Bamber gave Julie the information in her WS. Rather than the police.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 20, 2020, 10:03:PM
With so much sourced forensic evidence & Julie knowing so much, supporters need to get board the police lead industrial frame route. Otherwise accept Bamber's guilt.

The police not telling Julie to include the silencer in her WS will have to be put down as a surprising police error.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: David1819 on September 21, 2020, 09:40:AM
Julie didn't get the following from the newspapers -


Bible by Sheila.


Julie never said the bible was by Sheila. She said it was on her chest (her body being on the bed). That was the same erroneous information the police gave Ann Eaton.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7899.msg374667.html#msg374667 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7899.msg374667.html#msg374667)
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 21, 2020, 11:46:AM
Julie never said the bible was by Sheila. She said it was on her chest (her body being on the bed). That was the same erroneous information the police gave Ann Eaton.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7899.msg374667.html#msg374667 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7899.msg374667.html#msg374667)

Do you believe the relatives got the above information from the police & then relayed it to Julie by phone?

Why didn't the relatives mention the silencer? They found it!
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 21, 2020, 01:22:PM
SJ was the culprit. It was he who couldn't keep his mouth shut . He'd taken all into his confidence. The time when he took a pair of shoes (flatties ) probably belonging to Sheila and very possibly blooded too, then quickly turned to AE and said " you didn't see these ". What was that about ? This was a mass murder investigation didn't SJ realise ?

Had Sheila worn those as she flew around the house ? My bet is that she did ! She'd have known where to tread and where not to tread so as not to leave footprints. They'd have been proof enough that she'd carried out the murders but SJ had already made up his mind.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 21, 2020, 01:35:PM
SJ was the culprit. It was he who couldn't keep his mouth shut . He'd taken all into his confidence. The time when he took a pair of shoes (flatties ) probably belonging to Sheila and very possibly blooded too, then quickly turned to AE and said " you didn't see these ". What was that about ? This was a mass murder investigation didn't SJ realise ?

Had Sheila worn those as she flew around the house ? My bet is that she did ! She'd have known where to tread and where not to tread so as not to leave footprints. They'd have been proof enough that she'd carried out the murders but SJ had already made up his mind.

Yes SJ was the closest police officer to Julie & assisted her with her WS. The Industrial Frame department must have assigned him to modify Julie's WS.

Very surprising he didn't get the 24 page WS to include a line on the silencer. He knew about it from the beginning.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 26, 2020, 08:22:AM
It seems the defence holding up Newspapers at trial & saying Julie got all her information from these, was just for show.

The defence knew her WS was much too detailed & accused AE of passing on two bits of information to Julie. AE did not confirm she did this.

Where Julie got the rest of her exclusive information,  they never said.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 26, 2020, 08:28:AM
The defence at trial were never going to go down the industrial frame route. The jury would never swallow that. Even now, only Lookout & NGB believe there was police corruption.

They would just have to hope the prosecution didn't hammer home Julie's 'ring of truth' WS & highlight everything she could have only got from Bamber.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 26, 2020, 11:04:AM
Can you also include gross incompetence to my description please Adam.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 26, 2020, 03:32:PM
Can you also include gross incompetence to my description please Adam.

The defence being incompetent is a bit strong. But people are entitled to say this.

The police were not incompetent as the industrial frame department did it's job.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: David1819 on September 26, 2020, 03:48:PM
The defence at trial were never going to go down the industrial frame route. The jury would never swallow that. Even now, only Lookout & NGB believe there was police corruption.

They would just have to hope the prosecution didn't hammer home Julie's 'ring of truth' WS & highlight everything she could have only got from Bamber.

There was nothing to highlight. As for the 'ring of truth' once again you grossly take the summing up out of context.

"Approach the evidence of Julie Mugford with a great degree of caution. Ask yourselves whether her evidence generally had the ring of truth about it."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: JackieD on September 26, 2020, 04:14:PM
There was nothing to highlight. As for the 'ring of truth' once again you grossly take the summing up out of context.

"Approach the evidence of Julie Mugford with a great degree of caution. Ask yourselves whether her evidence generally had the ring of truth about it."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)


Thank you David
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 26, 2020, 04:35:PM
There was nothing to highlight. As for the 'ring of truth' once again you grossly take the summing up out of context.

"Approach the evidence of Julie Mugford with a great degree of caution. Ask yourselves whether her evidence generally had the ring of truth about it."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)

You obviously have not read Wilkes's book. They couldn't break down Julie's 'Ring of Truth' WS

I am not quoting the summing up.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 26, 2020, 07:01:PM
The defence being incompetent is a bit strong. But people are entitled to say this.

The police were not incompetent as the industrial frame department did it's job.





The defence were weak. EP were the incompetent ones.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Adam on September 26, 2020, 07:03:PM




The defence were weak. EP were the incompetent ones.

What do believe the defence should have done differently?
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: QCChevalier on September 26, 2020, 09:47:PM
The defence being incompetent is a bit strong. But people are entitled to say this.

The police were not incompetent as the industrial frame department did it's job.

Thanks Adam.  I didn't realise Jeremy wore glasses even back then.  I suppose you're right though, as someone with good fashion sense, he would have gone for industrial-style frames.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 27, 2020, 02:42:PM
What do believe the defence should have done differently?





Ignored Julie's acting and carried on questioning her as she was perfectly alright when it came to dishing the dirt for the prosecution, but when it came to the real questioning she turned the taps on.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 03:15:PM




Ignored Julie's acting and carried on questioning her as she was perfectly alright when it came to dishing the dirt for the prosecution, but when it came to the real questioning she turned the taps on.


Her behaviour was hardly something new to the defence. They'd have come across it fairly frequently in the course of their careers, and I imagine there to be time honoured ways of negotiating it. I don't imagine they'd have allowed a slip of a girl to outrun them..................unless, of course, there had already been an agreement arrived at between prosecution and defence?
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 27, 2020, 05:06:PM

Her behaviour was hardly something new to the defence. They'd have come across it fairly frequently in the course of their careers, and I imagine there to be time honoured ways of negotiating it. I don't imagine they'd have allowed a slip of a girl to outrun them..................unless, of course, there had already been an agreement arrived at between prosecution and defence?





That last paragraph has made me wonder for long enough.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 05:27:PM




That last paragraph has made me wonder for long enough.


It opens up possibilities.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: JackieD on September 27, 2020, 05:36:PM




That last paragraph has made me wonder for long enough.

That’s not the way it works Lookout and certainly not a case made up of circumstancial evidence
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 05:59:PM




That last paragraph has made me wonder for long enough.


Such, whilst not necessarily changing any of the feelings/gut instincts the relatives had regarding Jeremy, NOR lessening the professional rivalry/personal dislike which may have existed between the two Jones', it goes a long way to negate framing of the industrial nature. It's unnecessary for either the defence or prosecution to have belief in the defendant's innocence/guilt, their job is only to prosecute or defend. I think it's entirely possible, unless there's personal animosity, certain information sometimes gets shared.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 27, 2020, 06:11:PM

Such, whilst not necessarily changing any of the feelings/gut instincts the relatives had regarding Jeremy, NOR lessening the professional rivalry/personal dislike which may have existed between the two Jones', it goes a long way to negate framing of the industrial nature. It's unnecessary for either the defence or prosecution to have belief in the defendant's innocence/guilt, their job is only to prosecute or defend. I think it's entirely possible, unless there's personal animosity, certain information sometimes gets shared.





Much influence and bias via the prosecution to the judge equals an unfair trial.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 06:38:PM




Much influence and bias via the prosecution to the judge equals an unfair trial.


Such has to be proved. Word of mouth can't be, and paper trails become notoriously difficult to locate. I see no reason for a judge to become involved.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 27, 2020, 06:52:PM

Such has to be proved. Word of mouth can't be, and paper trails become notoriously difficult to locate. I see no reason for a judge to become involved.





" Word of mouth " is what convicted Jeremy instead of concrete/ forensic evidence against him .
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 07:22:PM




" Word of mouth " is what convicted Jeremy instead of concrete/ forensic evidence against him .

But those words of mouth are all in WS's. Whether or not they're correct depends on their personal experiences, and whether or not they're believed. I very much doubt that there's much in writing regarding interaction between defence and prosecution, and I'm convinced they have scant memory of what passed between them verbally.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 27, 2020, 08:55:PM
But those words of mouth are all in WS's. Whether or not they're correct depends on their personal experiences, and whether or not they're believed. I very much doubt that there's much in writing regarding interaction between defence and prosecution, and I'm convinced they have scant memory of what passed between them verbally.





The truth of the matter is that neither side were fully conversant with any of the family dynamics at all.
It was all about " Jeremy did it " completely disregarding the pecuniary embarrassment that the extended family were going through at that time.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 27, 2020, 09:04:PM




The truth of the matter is that neither side were fully conversant with any of the family dynamics at all.
It was all about " Jeremy did it " completely disregarding the pecuniary embarrassment that the extended family were going through at that time.

"Pecuniary embarrassment" meaning what? A temporary blip, or the verge of bankruptcy. It seems to me that with Pam handing on the legacy to them, any embarrassment -IF there had ever been such other than wishful thinking on supporters' parts- it would have been very short lived.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 11:07:AM
"Pecuniary embarrassment" meaning what? A temporary blip, or the verge of bankruptcy. It seems to me that with Pam handing on the legacy to them, any embarrassment -IF there had ever been such other than wishful thinking on supporters' parts- it would have been very short lived.





Prior to the tragedy when RWB used to visit granny--cap in hand. Mainly, as Nevill had said, due to bad management.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 12:55:PM




Prior to the tragedy when RWB used to visit granny--cap in hand. Mainly, as Nevill had said, due to bad management.


Quelle Horreur!!! Borrowing money from mother!!! Whoever would have thought. Show me a farming family from where money doesn't flow down from those with the most to support those with less. It MAY have been down to "bad management". It could equally well have been no more than Nevill's opinion. Which ever, I doubt it was anywhere near close to bankruptcy. More, a momentary -and temporary- hiatus.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 01:51:PM

Quelle Horreur!!! Borrowing money from mother!!! Whoever would have thought. Show me a farming family from where money doesn't flow down from those with the most to support those with less. It MAY have been down to "bad management". It could equally well have been no more than Nevill's opinion. Which ever, I doubt it was anywhere near close to bankruptcy. More, a momentary -and temporary- hiatus.





PE did a good impression of a cash shortage by" stealing" from N&J Bamber , as BW had put it when she'd reported the matter to EP. Needless to say that also fizzled out to make way for another prosecution witness.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 01:57:PM




PE did a good impression of a cash shortage by" stealing" from N&J Bamber , as BW had put it when she'd reported the matter to EP. Needless to say that also fizzled out to make way for another prosecution witness.

Perhaps, like Jeremy, he was testing lax security? As I recall, BW appears to have been a somewhat unreliable witness.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 02:31:PM
Perhaps, like Jeremy, he was testing lax security? As I recall, BW appears to have been a somewhat unreliable witness.





Post trial she wasn't, as she'd suddenly changed her mind. We can all do that to "keep on side" can't we ?
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 02:38:PM
The Eatons were so hard-up that they had approached Nevill in buying their land which they would have then bought it back when things looked up. They couldn't approach RWB because he was in the same boat as they were which is why he was forever tapping grannie.
A " hiatus " until they found a way around it----in the shape of blaming JB for the murders. How convenient was that ?
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 02:40:PM
This is where " the deal " came in which ended in poor Nevill getting walloped. They sounded desperate to me.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 02:42:PM
It was imperative that everyone believed them over Jeremy !
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 03:15:PM
The Eatons were so hard-up that they had approached Nevill in buying their land which they would have then bought it back when things looked up. They couldn't approach RWB because he was in the same boat as they were which is why he was forever tapping grannie.
A " hiatus " until they found a way around it----in the shape of blaming JB for the murders. How convenient was that ?


Actually, it's more likely to mean that their immediate funds were tied up elsewhere. Why would they choose to pay interest to a commercial lender when the Bank of Family was available?  Perhaps you have evidence of their reasons for not approaching RWB? One possibility is that he wouldn't have approved what they were doing, which, of itself doesn't make it wrong, only lacking in parental approval.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 03:53:PM

Actually, it's more likely to mean that their immediate funds were tied up elsewhere. Why would they choose to pay interest to a commercial lender when the Bank of Family was available?  Perhaps you have evidence of their reasons for not approaching RWB? One possibility is that he wouldn't have approved what they were doing, which, of itself doesn't make it wrong, only lacking in parental approval.




Asset rich and cash poor. I wonder how many find themselves in this situation----but freely admit it ?
They obviously couldn't approach the bank or would have done and they didn't approach RWB because he didn't have the readies which is why he kept going to grannie.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 04:15:PM



Asset rich and cash poor. I wonder how many find themselves in this situation----but freely admit it ?
They obviously couldn't approach the bank or would have done and they didn't approach RWB because he didn't have the readies which is why he kept going to grannie.

None of which comes anywhere close to bankruptcy, the breadline, or pecuniary embarrassment. As for "couldn't approach the bank"? Why on earth would they consider it. I don't know of any business families who distribute funds between themselves, who would go to a bank first and saddle themselves with high interest rates. Grannie would probably have been appalled at the thought!!!
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 04:21:PM
None of which comes anywhere close to bankruptcy, the breadline, or pecuniary embarrassment. As for "couldn't approach the bank"? Why on earth would they consider it. I don't know of any business families who distribute funds between themselves, who would go to a bank first and saddle themselves with high interest rates. Grannie would probably have been appalled at the thought!!!





Grannie would have been more appalled if she'd known the truth !
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 04:45:PM




Grannie would have been more appalled if she'd known the truth !


It might be shocking to you, but I'm willing to bet that it's the way they'd done business for generations. The families concerned were all well cushioned enough for funds to be bounced around between them when necessary. The Grannie in question was no pushover, for all that. She was a straight talking, God fearing woman who lived by the Bible's teachings. She may not have been popular with some -feared, but respected, probably. Your truth may not have been the same as hers...................
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 05:27:PM

It might be shocking to you, but I'm willing to bet that it's the way they'd done business for generations. The families concerned were all well cushioned enough for funds to be bounced around between them when necessary. The Grannie in question was no pushover, for all that. She was a straight talking, God fearing woman who lived by the Bible's teachings. She may not have been popular with some -feared, but respected, probably. Your truth may not have been the same as hers...................






As the saying goes--there's no sentiment in business which separates my truth from theirs straightaway.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: lookout on September 28, 2020, 05:32:PM
Digressing---while I've been posting, in between times I've washed and peeled apples that were picked off a tree yesterday, sliced them into a Pyrex dish, made some crumble, cooked it and have eaten two helpings. Who can't multi-task ?  ;D ;D ;D ;D Delish !
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 05:43:PM
..............which causes me to wonder what her truth may have been. Austere and intimidating she might have been to many, but I suspect her family had an excellent counselor in her. I think she may have been the one person they knew they could trust with 'stuff' they couldn't share with anyone else, and what they told her, they could be confident would remain with her. It takes me back to what she said -or more what she didn't say- when told of the tragedy. She never asked about Jeremy. She did, however, claim it to be the Devil at work, so I'm wondering did June take any concerns she might have had, regarding Jeremy -AND Sheila- to her mother?

Now, I know it's constantly being said how much June adored Jeremy, but I can find no evidence of her ever saying such to friends of her own generation, and it seems entirely out of keeping with her personality for her to share this sort of information with the younger generation. It was more her style, because neither of her children gave her an easy ride, to say nothing.............except, perhaps, to her mother. I believe it's entirely feasible that she'd have offloaded any concerns -however dark- to the old lady, MAYBE even admitting her mother could have been right about her adopting and how it hadn't been the success she'd hoped for............

................There remains then, surely, the possibility that other family members may have taken their concerns, regarding Jeremy, the farm, his part in it, THEIR future, to her?

Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 05:44:PM
Digressing---while I've been posting, in between times I've washed and peeled apples that were picked off a tree yesterday, sliced them into a Pyrex dish, made some crumble, cooked it and have eaten two helpings. Who can't multi-task ?  ;D ;D ;D ;D Delish !


I bet it was. Mine's in the freezer :( :( :(
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Steve_uk on September 28, 2020, 06:30:PM
..............which causes me to wonder what her truth may have been. Austere and intimidating she might have been to many, but I suspect her family had an excellent counselor in her. I think she may have been the one person they knew they could trust with 'stuff' they couldn't share with anyone else, and what they told her, they could be confident would remain with her. It takes me back to what she said -or more what she didn't say- when told of the tragedy. She never asked about Jeremy. She did, however, claim it to be the Devil at work, so I'm wondering did June take any concerns she might have had, regarding Jeremy -AND Sheila- to her mother?

Now, I know it's constantly being said how much June adored Jeremy, but I can find no evidence of her ever saying such to friends of her own generation, and it seems entirely out of keeping with her personality for her to share this sort of information with the younger generation. It was more her style, because neither of her children gave her an easy ride, to say nothing.............except, perhaps, to her mother. I believe it's entirely feasible that she'd have offloaded any concerns -however dark- to the old lady, MAYBE even admitting her mother could have been right about her adopting and how it hadn't been the success she'd hoped for............

................There remains then, surely, the possibility that other family members may have taken their concerns, regarding Jeremy, the farm, his part in it, THEIR future, to her?
I'm not sure I see Mabel Speakman in the counsellor mould somehow Jane. Shrewd businesswoman yes, godfearing, moral, but warm and playing the confidante role I'm not so sure. A disciplinarian whom Sheila looked up to on the occasions their past crossed, far more respected by her than the respect she had for her own mother. Leslie Speakman we are told in CAL's book managed six farms, so I assume he was a workaholic who didn't involve himself in familial problems on a par with Nevill. We are told June was "distraught" on her father's death in 1975: could it be it's the age-old story of Daddy's girl? Remember June had a further breakdown in 1982 so I assume by that time she really did feel alone.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Jane on September 28, 2020, 06:48:PM
I'm not sure I see Mabel Speakman in the counsellor mould somehow Jane. Shrewd businesswoman yes, godfearing, moral, but warm and playing the confidante role I'm not so sure. A disciplinarian whom Sheila looked up to on the occasions their past crossed, far more respected by her than the respect she had for her own mother. Leslie Speakman we are told in CAL's book managed six farms, so I assume he was a workaholic who didn't involve himself in familial problems on a par with Nevill. We are told June was "distraught" on her father's death in 1975: could it be it's the age-old story of Daddy's girl? Remember June had a further breakdown in 1982 so I assume by that time she really did feel alone.

Steve, I don't think I implied warmth!! That's not a description I'd have used of her. As much as anything, it was about her just being there, certainly latterly. She seems to have managed her world very well. My friend, a vicar's wife, was the only surgery nurse she allowed into her home, and the girl who delivered meals and little treats cooked by her mother in law, always went in fear of her. I have no idea if she worked hard at cultivating that reputation, or whether it came naturally.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: Steve_uk on September 28, 2020, 08:02:PM
Steve, I don't think I implied warmth!! That's not a description I'd have used of her. As much as anything, it was about her just being there, certainly latterly. She seems to have managed her world very well. My friend, a vicar's wife, was the only surgery nurse she allowed into her home, and the girl who delivered meals and little treats cooked by her mother in law, always went in fear of her. I have no idea if she worked hard at cultivating that reputation, or whether it came naturally.
In relation to June it brought back this thread: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9437.0.html

I think the stiff upper lip came into play, which was natural to Nevill but not to June. How she must have suffered internally! Did she confide in her friend Agnes Lowe? I doubt we will ever know the full story of June's torment.
Title: Re: The relatives passing information to Julie:
Post by: mike tesko on October 01, 2020, 11:34:PM
Supporters need to confirm there was a police lead Industrial Frame. It is surprising only Lookout believes this as it is an easy way to explain the incriminating evidence.

Everyone will agree Julie could got so much exclusive detailed  information from the relatives or newspapers.

No  that's correct Lookout, she got all the encouragement from DS Jones, who was not originally privy to information regarding the suspected times of her imaginary death  and the truth surrounding the circumstances of how she lost her life on the main bedroom floor at precisely 9.13am, that morning. It is with 100% certainty that Jeremy could not have shot her dead  or that he thought he was clever enough to fool  everybody into thinking or believe that she had committed suicide - that rumour was created by Essex police who were / are responsible for her death. I am not suggesting that the police officers who were/are responsible for shooting her not once, but Who are responsible twice, once downstairs in the kitchen when firearm officers forced there way into the main kitchen. PS Woodcocks original 15 page witness statement was created (7th August 1985), which by a month later had to be edited/altered to take out any evidence that Sheila was still very much alive inside the farmhouse when armed police forced open the farmhouse door. Sheila was not only still alive at that stage (let's say PS Woodcocks gun fired the neck shot she sustained at around, or just before 7.36am on that morning, I can assure everyone that she hadn't died, and did not, until precisely 9.13am, as a result of a loaded rifle being presented to her body once it had been lifted from on op of her parents bed. The real truth stands out like a shining beacon of reasoning...

Please pay attention to what I am about to tell you all - the bullet which first wounded Sheila Caffell downstairs in the kitchen (exhibit PV/20) was a piece of ammunition belonging to Essex police firearm units stach of ammumitions in their armrries. It fragmented upon impact as it entered the side of her neck into a multitude of variously sized fragmented pieces (this is confirmed by the pathologist  Peter Venezis who removed almost all of the bullets fragment from inside her neck However, when Jeremy Bamber fell under suspicion  the Crowns non qualified ballistics so called expert  proclaimed exhibit PV/20 to be a WHOLE BULLET. Cops switched the original crime scene ammo' with a more recently test fired piece of .22 ammunition - in their haste to try and save face, they came up with a shit theory that Sheila couldn't have shot herself dead on the main bedroom floor, because with the silencer having been fitted to the end of the rifles gun barrel  that the overall length of the gun would almost certainly been too long, to enable he to shoot herself dead, not once, but twice there on the main bedroom floor..

Cops were able to say such things because they urgently needed 6o displace responsibility upon, or towards themselves...