Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: JackieD on September 15, 2020, 11:31:AM

Title: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: JackieD on September 15, 2020, 11:31:AM
Woman who won appeal after killing husband can inherit his estate – judge
UK News | Published: May 27, 2020
Sally Challen’s murder conviction for the killing of Richard Challen was quashed last year.

Sally Challen
A mother-of-two who won an appeal battle after killing her controlling husband can inherit his estate, a judge has ruled.
Sally Challen, who is in her mid-60s, was given a mandatory life sentence in 2011 after being convicted of murdering 61-year-old Richard Challen in August 2010.
She was freed last year after winning an appeal fight.
Judge Paul Matthews has now decided that Mrs Challen, of Claygate, Surrey, can inherit his estate.

Sally Challen with her sons James and David (Yui Mok/PA)
He concluded that a rule barring people who kill from inheriting their victim’s estate should be waived in Mrs Challen’s case.
The judge, who analysed arguments about Mrs Challen’s inheritance claim at a High Court hearing in Bristol earlier this month, announced his decision in a ruling published on Wednesday.
Mrs Challen had been given a life term after being convicted of murder following a trial at Guildford Crown Court in summer 2011.
Appeal judges quashed that murder conviction in February last year and ordered a new trial.
A judge had been due to oversee a new trial but Mrs Challen was released in June following a preliminary hearing at the Old Bailey, after prosecutors accepted her plea to manslaughter.
Mr Justice Edis imposed a new sentence of nine years and four months for manslaughter, but concluded that she had already served her time.
Judge Matthews heard that the Challens had been in a relationship for around 40 years, since Mrs Challen was 15 and Mr Challen 22, and had two sons.
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Mrs Challen had beaten former car dealer Mr Challen to death with a hammer and claimed that she had suffered years of controlling and humiliating abuse.
“The deceased’s behaviour during their relationship and their marriage was by turns contemptuous, belittling, aggressive or violent,” said Judge Matthews, in his ruling.
“His response to any suggestion that she would divorce him was that he would limit access to their children.


“He would ignore her complaints about his behaviour or insist that she was mistaken and that she had not seen what she said she had seen.
The judge said Mrs Challen had been a victim of coercive control and suffered psychiatric illness.
She had considered suicide after killing her husband, and had left a note saying she could not live without him.
“These facts are extraordinary, tragic, and, one would hope, rare,” said the judge.
“They lasted 40 years and involved the combination of a submissive personality on whom coercive control worked, a man prepared to use that coercive control, a lack of friends or other sources of assistance, an enormous dependency upon him by (Mrs Challen), and significant psychiatric illness.”
The judge said Mr Challen had “undoubtedly contributed significantly” to the circumstances in which he died, and added: “I consider that, without his appalling behaviour over so many years, the claimant would not have killed him.”
Judge Matthews said the “justice of this case” required that he should “disapply” the rule barring killers from inheriting their victim’s estate.
The judge said every case had to be decided on its merits and not all victims of coercive control would necessarily be able to inherit.
He added: “I emphasise that the facts of this terrible case are so extraordinary, with such a fatal combination of conditions and events, that I would not expect them easily to be replicated in any other.”
Mr Challen had left no will and a major asset, the home the Challens shared, had been jointly owned.
The judge said his decision would mean that Mrs Challen, not the couple’s sons, would inherit.
He said the “major effect” of that would be that Mrs Challen would not have to pay inheritance tax.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: lookout on September 15, 2020, 12:28:PM
The poor woman snapped---the same as Sheila had done at the thought of her twins being taken from her !
Sheila had been controlled and her only opportunity of seeking revenge towards the adults at the farmhouse was to kill them. Sheila had realised that she had to do something as it was only a matter of a day before the twins would have been joining their father for a holiday abroad.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: JackieD on September 15, 2020, 12:53:PM
The poor woman snapped---the same as Sheila had done at the thought of her twins being taken from her !
Sheila had been controlled and her only opportunity of seeking revenge towards the adults at the farmhouse was to kill them. Sheila had realised that she had to do something as it was only a matter of a day before the twins would have been joining their father for a holiday abroad.

It’s nice after all this time she has her inheritance back and rightly so
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 15, 2020, 05:28:PM
Poor woman, well pleased for her.

Of course where does this leave Bamber?

One of the latest – and arguably most unjust – cost-cutting measures being imposed by the MOJ is to deny any compensation to practically all ex-prisoners whose convictions have been quashed by the Court of Appeal. Victims of serious miscarriages of justice are now starting to discover that no matter how many years they may have served of undeserved prison sentences for crimes they didn’t commit, the likelihood is that they will leave jail without the prospect of a penny piece to compensate them for their ruined lives and lost years of freedom, let alone for their lost homes, families, jobs, reputation and income.


As for the WHF, if I’m right this is on lease or was at the time he committed the murders.

The caravan park shares he owned, he  lost a Court case against the Eatons and the Caravan park shares were awarded to the Eatons by the Judge in payment because Bamber had no money to pay costs.

His Grandma’s will, he was excluded from this so nothing to come here I wouldn’t think?

You have to remember it was the state that prosecuted Bamber, not the family and I must say, the judge at the summing up in Sally’s case gives a very strong and powerful message,

He added: “I emphasise that the facts of this terrible case are so extraordinary, with such a fatal combination of conditions and events, that I would not expect them easily to be replicated in any other.”

Would this apply to Bamber, I don’t know?   Of coarse he has to win an appeal first
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: QCChevalier on September 15, 2020, 06:56:PM
You have to remember it was the state that prosecuted Bamber, not the family

The family had a major role in the investigation and prosecution, and introduced an important piece of evidence, and without pressure from the family, he probably would not have been prosecuted.

I know you're keen to bail them out.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 15, 2020, 07:10:PM
The family had a major role in the investigation and prosecution, and introduced an important piece of evidence, and without pressure from the family, he probably would not have been prosecuted.

I know you're keen to bail them out.
I just don’t think he has anything to come QC. I’m trying to be honest that’s all?  I could be wrong NGB might give a better view on the family being witnesses, it was and always is up to the state to prosecute on evidence presented.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 15, 2020, 07:19:PM
At one time I was always under the impression if he ever won an appeal he would be able to recover a good payout.  This all changed (without looking I think it was Chris Grayland) who changed appeal prisoner payouts, I could always remember Stephen Downing getting about half a million. The more I looked into what he could claim back re- inheritance, this became less and less, if he got out on a technicality would that influence it?  I don’t know.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: lookout on September 15, 2020, 07:27:PM
If it was a technicality he wouldn't get a sausage.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 15, 2020, 07:33:PM
If it was a technicality he wouldn't get a sausage.
Thats right Lookout, I think you’ve got to prove Beyond reasonable doubt?
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 15, 2020, 07:36:PM
If it was a technicality he wouldn't get a sausage.
I meant technically and recovering re- inheritance Lookout, not state payout.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: lookout on September 15, 2020, 09:00:PM
I meant technically and recovering re- inheritance Lookout, not state payout.





Not sure about inheritance, though I would have thought that would have been forfeited along with his freedom. I feel that too much time has gone for JB to claim his part of the estate back but laws change, though again I wouldn't be sure. 
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Steve_uk on September 16, 2020, 11:25:PM
I think this sets a dangerous precedent. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-52823867?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cglkv3nvv48t/sally-challen-murder-case&link_location=live-reporting-story
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 17, 2020, 05:57:AM
The family had a major role in the investigation and prosecution, and introduced an important piece of evidence, and without pressure from the family, he probably would not have been prosecuted.

I know you're keen to bail them out.
Why would I want to bail them out?  They’re quite capable of bailing themselves out, like the time Bamber took them to court regarding him being a shareholder in the caravan park, he represented himself because he had no money, I would guess not many solicitor’s  would touch pro-bono libel/Litigation cases because it insures costs if you lose.  He lost the case and the Eatons were awarded costs, Bamber told them they wouldn’t get their costs because he had nothing, the Judge had other thoughts and told him, “aah but you have Mr Bamber, you’ve got your caravan shares and awarded these to the Eatons for costs incurred.


WHF is on Lease, I don’t know about the fields that Neville and Bamber owned plus other things, it would probably be a minefield to fight?

His Grandma’s will was changed in the sept I think, so I really do think that’s out the Question.

The only thing I’m not sure about regarding the Caravan park and it’s June’s shares,  42% I think, these I believe went to Pam?
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Hartley. on September 17, 2020, 08:23:AM
Why would I want to bail them out?  They’re quite capable of bailing themselves out, like the time Bamber took them to court regarding him being a shareholder in the caravan park, he represented himself because he had no money, I would guess not many solicitor’s  would touch pro-bono libel/Litigation cases because it insures costs if you lose.  He lost the case and the Eatons were awarded costs, Bamber told them they wouldn’t get their costs because he had nothing, the Judge had other thoughts and told him, “aah but you have Mr Bamber, you’ve got your caravan shares and awarded these to the Eatons for costs incurred.


WHF is on Lease, I don’t know about the fields that Neville and Bamber owned plus other things, it would probably be a minefield to fight?

His Grandma’s will was changed in the sept I think, so I really do think that’s out the Question.

The only thing I’m not sure about regarding the Caravan park and it’s June’s shares,  42% I think, these I believe went to Pam?

Pam didn't accept it and it was handed down again.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 17, 2020, 08:29:AM
Pam didn't accept it and it was handed down again.
Oh right, I never knew where they went.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: QCChevalier on September 18, 2020, 07:55:PM
Why would I want to bail them out?  They’re quite capable of bailing themselves out, like the time Bamber took them to court regarding him being a shareholder in the caravan park, he represented himself because he had no money, I would guess not many solicitor’s  would touch pro-bono libel/Litigation cases because it insures costs if you lose.  He lost the case and the Eatons were awarded costs, Bamber told them they wouldn’t get their costs because he had nothing, the Judge had other thoughts and told him, “aah but you have Mr Bamber, you’ve got your caravan shares and awarded these to the Eatons for costs incurred.


WHF is on Lease, I don’t know about the fields that Neville and Bamber owned plus other things, it would probably be a minefield to fight?

His Grandma’s will was changed in the sept I think, so I really do think that’s out the Question.

The only thing I’m not sure about regarding the Caravan park and it’s June’s shares,  42% I think, these I believe went to Pam?

You're changing the subject.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 18, 2020, 08:05:PM
You're changing the subject.
No I’m not, they’re quite capable of bailing themselves out with words or actions.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: QCChevalier on September 18, 2020, 08:24:PM
No I’m not, they’re quite capable of bailing themselves out with words or actions.

You ARE changing the subject.  You brought up the idea that if Jeremy's conviction is unsafe, the relatives aren't culpable, it's all down to the state you say.  I disagree.  The relatives were the driving force behind the change in the investigation from murder-suicide to five murders.

In the end, it will all depend on why Jeremy's convictions are quashed - assuming that ever happens.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Real Justice on September 18, 2020, 08:32:PM
You ARE changing the subject.  You brought up the idea that if Jeremy's conviction is unsafe, the relatives aren't culpable, it's all down to the state you say.  I disagree.  The relatives were the driving force behind the change in the investigation from murder-suicide to five murders.

In the end, it will all depend on why Jeremy's convictions are quashed - assuming that ever happens.
I brought three possible ares that probably were water proof in my eyes, the Grandma’s Will, WHF and his caravan shares.  Anything else could be up for grabs depending if he gets out or on what terms.  It’s not down to the state, it’s if Jeremy goes for them.

The state was a different subject regarding prisoners released and the terms.
Title: Re: Sally Challen and Inheritance Law
Post by: Steve_uk on September 19, 2020, 02:27:PM
Has the area of psychiatry become a dripping roast for the legal profession? I'm sorry, but anyone who beats a spouse over the head with a hammer does not belong in mainstream society, whatever that might entail. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8363341/Abused-wife-Sally-Challen-wins-court-battle-inherit-estate-husband-beat-death.html