Jeremy Bamber Forum

OFF TOPIC => Off Topic => Topic started by: David1819 on May 01, 2020, 12:48:PM

Title: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 01, 2020, 12:48:PM
Is he dead or alive?  :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCTrHV3quA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCTrHV3quA)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 01, 2020, 09:59:PM
I don't think many tears would be shed at his demise: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277471/North-Korean-defector-says-99-sure-Kim-Jong-dead.html

Maybe he's not dead after all: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52508437
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 02, 2020, 01:48:PM
I don't think many tears would be shed at his demise: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277471/North-Korean-defector-says-99-sure-Kim-Jong-dead.html

Maybe he's not dead after all: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52508437

It seems Rocket man is alive

Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 30, 2020, 08:38:AM
It seems Rocket man is alive

And now plans to build more nuclear weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5PXYNS73GM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5PXYNS73GM)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 30, 2020, 11:48:AM
And now plans to build more nuclear weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5PXYNS73GM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5PXYNS73GM)
It sickens me that the weakest go to the wall, whilst the Great Leader indulges in such vanity projects: https://youtu.be/30-2sPGNGEw
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 30, 2020, 12:27:PM
It sickens me that the weakest go to the wall, whilst the Great Leader indulges in such vanity projects: https://youtu.be/30-2sPGNGEw

I am cautiously optimistic for North Korea under Kim Jong Un. He was educated in Switerzland and has a better understanding of the rest of the world than his father and grandfather did.


He recently built a kids water park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCkKnHMjaw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCkKnHMjaw)

Better than nothing I guess.  :-\
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 30, 2020, 12:49:PM
I am cautiously optimistic for North Korea under Kim Jong Un. He was educated in Switerzland and has a better understanding of the rest of the world than his father and grandfather did.


He recently built a kids water park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCkKnHMjaw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCkKnHMjaw)

Better than nothing I guess.  :-\
And how much did that cost? There are still people starving to death in remote areas. Forget Pyongyang, which is a propaganda show city, its residents hand-picked from the rest of the country and whose inhabitants know they are relatively lucky, hence the political sycophancy towards their masters at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 30, 2020, 02:03:PM
And how much did that cost? There are still people starving to death in remote areas. Forget Pyongyang, which is a propaganda show city, its residents hand-picked from the rest of the country and whose inhabitants know they are relatively lucky, hence the political sycophancy towards their masters at every opportunity.

Stalinist Communism and mass starvation tend to go hand in hand. I personally believe that when the famine began in the 1990s, the world should have starved the regime till it collapsed instead of sending in the WFP.   

At present It is difficult if not impossible to know what it actually happening in North Korea. Some believe the Regime exaggerates it’s hunger situation in order to obtain more foreign aid.

North Koreans don’t know how unlucky they are. They know nothing of the outside world. That’s how the regime has been able to survive for so long.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 30, 2020, 02:37:PM
Stalinist Communism and mass starvation tend to go hand in hand. I personally believe that when the famine began in the 1990s, the world should have starved the regime till it collapsed instead of sending in the WFP.   

At present It is difficult if not impossible to know what it actually happening in North Korea. Some believe the Regime exaggerates it’s hunger situation in order to obtain more foreign aid.

North Koreans don’t know how unlucky they are. They know nothing of the outside world. That’s how the regime has been able to survive for so long.
I couldn't find another video of rural North Korea, which showed a desperately-thin boy of about 8 years old begging for crumbs in the main street, whilst others just went about their business. The UN did send sacks of rice but most of it was sold for profit on the black market. Millions have starved to death since 1994.

Incidentally North Korea is not a Marxist-Leninist country but has its own philosophy of Juche, or socialist self-reliance. I suppose that's how some justify to themselves that if people are unable to work they don't eat. https://www.crossingbordersnk.org/the-north-korean-famine?gclid=CjwKCAjwiMj2BRBFEiwAYfTbCgjjtSGAF04tXo944hUqULhWUhg0P0HQHmL7-NquO3Ct5r1oGtR3khoCd7YQAvD_BwE
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 30, 2020, 03:14:PM
I couldn't find another video of rural North Korea, which showed a desperately-thin boy of about 8 years old begging for crumbs in the main street, whilst others just went about their business. The UN did send sacks of rice but most of it was sold for profit on the black market. Millions have starved to death since 1994.

Incidentally North Korea is not a Marxist-Leninist country but has its own philosophy of Juche, or socialist self-reliance. I suppose that's how some justify to themselves that if people are unable to work they don't eat. https://www.crossingbordersnk.org/the-north-korean-famine?gclid=CjwKCAjwiMj2BRBFEiwAYfTbCgjjtSGAF04tXo944hUqULhWUhg0P0HQHmL7-NquO3Ct5r1oGtR3khoCd7YQAvD_BwE

Juche is just North Korea's re-branded communism.

This is what Kim Jong Il wrote in 1993

"Collectivism, as an ideal of socialism, has developed continuously. The establishment of Marxism was of great significance in the development of the concept of collectivism. Marxism made clear that the emancipation of humanity could not be achieved by individuals and that the exploitation and oppression of man by man could be eliminated and genuine freedom and equality for people could be realized only through the united efforts of the working class. The great leader Comrade Kim Il Sung authored the Juche idea and, on this basis, has developed the socialist idea and brought it to perfection, thus developing the concept of collectivism at a higher level. The Juche idea contains the original concept that the makers of history who forge the destiny of humanity are the popular masses, not individuals, and that they should be combined into one sociopolitical organism in order to forge their destiny independently and creatively. "



Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 30, 2020, 03:53:PM
Juche is just North Korea's re-branded communism.

This is what Kim Jong Il wrote in 1993

"Collectivism, as an ideal of socialism, has developed continuously. The establishment of Marxism was of great significance in the development of the concept of collectivism. Marxism made clear that the emancipation of humanity could not be achieved by individuals and that the exploitation and oppression of man by man could be eliminated and genuine freedom and equality for people could be realized only through the united efforts of the working class. The great leader Comrade Kim Il Sung authored the Juche idea and, on this basis, has developed the socialist idea and brought it to perfection, thus developing the concept of collectivism at a higher level. The Juche idea contains the original concept that the makers of history who forge the destiny of humanity are the popular masses, not individuals, and that they should be combined into one sociopolitical organism in order to forge their destiny independently and creatively. "
Thanks to Colbro on Betnod for this: https://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on May 30, 2020, 05:27:PM
NGB1066. What is your view on North Korea if you don't mind me asking?


Are they a misunderstood state stifled by foreign powers and fighting fire with fire. Or is it a rouge gangster state that needs to be contained and condemned until it reforms or collapses?

Both extremes sound like fair descriptions.  :-\




Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on May 30, 2020, 09:04:PM
Here is your answer: https://youtu.be/cZby_vxrJ0Q
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on June 09, 2020, 06:43:AM
The leader doesn't seem accountable to anyone: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52974061
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on June 09, 2020, 07:22:AM
The leader doesn't seem accountable to anyone: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52974061

Hence why he is called Supreme leader.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on June 09, 2020, 07:24:AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyYYTkL99Ac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyYYTkL99Ac)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on June 19, 2020, 06:15:PM
Found this rather moving. What a story

https://youtu.be/ooB9sYZepLo (https://youtu.be/ooB9sYZepLo)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 27, 2020, 11:43:AM
This is brilliant.

https://youtu.be/FBnAZnfNB6U (https://youtu.be/FBnAZnfNB6U)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 27, 2020, 05:47:PM
North Korea is a very interesting country.  It's as if they have decided to pursue a different path from the overarching hegemony of liberal capitalism and globalism.  Juche philosophy seems to be a sort of 'Korean national-socialism'.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 27, 2020, 07:42:PM
North Korea is a very interesting country.  It's as if they have decided to pursue a different path from the overarching hegemony of liberal capitalism and globalism.  Juche philosophy seems to be a sort of 'Korean national-socialism'.

It’s an interesting topic indeed. However a country like North Korea should not exist in the modern world.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 27, 2020, 08:00:PM
It’s an interesting topic indeed. However a country like North Korea should not exist in the modern world.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.  Why shouldn't a nation or tribe or community of people strike out on their own?  Can we be sure that the North Korean people would be better off under a system more like ours than under the system they have?  How do we know average North Koreans aren't actually quite content with their lot and what we're being told, while no doubt containing some truth about abuses, also contains a large amount of propaganda (admittedly not helped by the attitude of the North Korean regime)?

(Before somebody accuses me of being a North Korean agent infiltrating the forum, I'm a Celtic-Anglo-Saxon and I work for the High Lizard Council.  In fact, I'll be reporting back to the lizards tomorrow).
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 28, 2020, 07:52:PM
I'm not so sure I agree with you.  Why shouldn't a nation or tribe or community of people strike out on their own?  Can we be sure that the North Korean people would be better off under a system more like ours than under the system they have?  How do we know average North Koreans aren't actually quite content with their lot and what we're being told, while no doubt containing some truth about abuses, also contains a large amount of propaganda (admittedly not helped by the attitude of the North Korean regime)?

(Before somebody accuses me of being a North Korean agent infiltrating the forum, I'm a Celtic-Anglo-Saxon and I work for the High Lizard Council.  In fact, I'll be reporting back to the lizards tomorrow).

There are currently 35,000 North Koreans living in South Korea. They have risked their lives by defecting.

I think that speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 28, 2020, 11:11:PM
There are currently 35,000 North Koreans living in South Korea. They have risked their lives by defecting.

I think that speaks for itself.

Since North Korea has a population of more than 25 million, I suppose it does.

When the Inner German Border and Berlin Wall came down in 1989, there were those who called it freedom and who lambasted the inhumanity of the authoritarian system in East Germany, and no doubt they had a point: the East German regime was unpleasant.

However, let us reflect.  Was life better for East Germans under liberal capitalism or under planned socialism?  Did the East Germans who crossed the border to enjoy the mundane freedoms of the capitalist system become happier?
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 28, 2020, 11:42:PM
Since North Korea has a population of more than 25 million, I suppose it does.

When the Inner German Border and Berlin Wall came down in 1989, there were those who called it freedom and who lambasted the inhumanity of the authoritarian system in East Germany, and no doubt they had a point: the East German regime was unpleasant.

However, let us reflect.  Was life better for East Germans under liberal capitalism or under planned socialism?  Did the East Germans who crossed the border to enjoy the mundane freedoms of the capitalist system become happier?

You only have to look at North Korea from space at night. It looks like the south is an island.

(https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/305986/2-10-15-north-korea-satellite.jpg)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 28, 2020, 11:43:PM
You only have to look at North Korea from space at night. It looks like the south is an island.

(https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/305986/2-10-15-north-korea-satellite.jpg)

Is that a bad thing, though?
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 29, 2020, 12:29:AM
Is that a bad thing, though?

Have you tried living with little or no electricity?
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 29, 2020, 12:32:AM
Have you tried living with little or no electricity?

Well, yes I have actually.  And Man lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity, and seemed to do well.

But the point is that you're looking at this from the vantage point of Western Man under liberal capitalism.  Why do you think our system is better?

To take another example, there are still peoples in the Amazon, parts of Africa and central Asia that live without electricity and live a primitive tribal lifestyle.  Should we leave them alone or should we 'liberate' and 'civilise' them and give them the gift of electricity and liberal capitalism?

Will they be happy to see us when we turn up and tell them they should do things our way, because it's 'for their own good'?
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 29, 2020, 12:52:AM
Well, yes I have actually.  And Man lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity, and seemed to do well.

But the point is that you're looking at this from the vantage point of Western Man under liberal capitalism.  Why do you think our system is better?

To take another example, there are still peoples in the Amazon, parts of Africa and central Asia that live without electricity and live a primitive tribal lifestyle.  Should we leave them alone or should we 'liberate' and 'civilise' them and give them the gift of electricity and liberal capitalism?

Will they be happy to see us when we turn up and tell them they should do things our way, because it's 'for their own good'?

Why do you think the North Korean government controls all the TV stations all the publishing and does not allow its people access to the internet? They don’t want people to see how poor and deprived they are.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 29, 2020, 12:59:AM
Why do you think the North Korean government controls all the TV stations all the publishing and does not allow its people access to the internet? They don’t want people to see how poor and deprived they are.

I certainly can't dispute that they are in control, but does the average North Korean care much? 

Who controls the media in the West?  I assume you don't think the Western media are free?

Are you free to get up tomorrow and do whatever you like and go where you like?

It seems to me the Western idea of freedom is imperfect in that it does fully comport with the reality of experience.

People without electricity could be seen as freer than we are.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 29, 2020, 01:43:AM

Who controls the media in the West?  I assume you don't think the Western media are free?


If you can setup a YouTube channel telling the world how UFOs abduct sheep then it’s very free indeed.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 29, 2020, 01:58:AM
If you can setup a YouTube channel telling the world how UFOs abduct sheep then it’s very free indeed.

To change tack, in my conflagration with Uncle [Aunty?] Steve, I said this:

Free speech is for monkeys.

Intelligent men think before they speak.

In my view, freedom as such is overrated.  Freedom means a diminishment of pleasure and an enhancement of responsibility and risk.

I'm not sure most people are capable of freedom or want it.

Freedom and civilisation also seem to me to be opposites and in conflict.

Only a certain controlled and measured amount of freedom can progress a civilisation - through considered discourse and scientific discovery and advancement.  A total statement of freedom would mean the end of civilisation.

Richard Hall seems to me to be a distraction agent of some sort.  Listening to that interview, my ears pricked up when that John Aspray, who was with him, said he'd had some sort of high-level security clearance as an air traffic controller, though that may be his Walter Mitty side.

Is allowing Richard Hall the freedom to make silly videos real freedom?  Is it worthwhile?

Arguably a prisoner who is able to better himself during confinement, expand his reading, learn trade skills and so forth, and think and reflect, has a more worthwhile existence than a fat idiot who is 'free' to slump in front of the TV watching Netflix in between his dead-end job.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on July 29, 2020, 02:07:AM
To change tack, in my conflagration with Uncle [Aunty?] Steve, I said this:

Free speech is for monkeys.

Intelligent men think before they speak.

In my view, freedom as such is overrated.  Freedom means a diminishment of pleasure and an enhancement of responsibility and risk.

I'm not sure most people are capable of freedom or want it.

Freedom and civilisation also seem to me to be opposites and in conflict.

Only a certain controlled and measured amount of freedom can progress a civilisation - through considered discourse and scientific discovery and advancement.  A total statement of freedom would mean the end of civilisation.

Richard Hall seems to me to be a distraction agent of some sort.  Listening to that interview, my ears pricked up when that John Aspray, who was with him, said he'd had some sort of high-level security clearance as an air traffic controller, though that may be his Walter Mitty side.

Is allowing Richard Hall the freedom to make silly videos real freedom?  Is it worthwhile?

Arguably a prisoner who is able to better himself during confinement, expand his reading, learn trade skills and so forth, and think and reflect, has a more worthwhile existence than a fat idiot who is 'free' to slump in front of the TV watching Netflix in between his dead-end job.

Ask this guy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: QCChevalier on July 31, 2020, 11:59:PM
Ask this guy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626)

Or ask Jeremy Bamber, who is in Britain?
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Steve_uk on August 01, 2020, 07:03:AM
Ask this guy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17767626)
Quite shocking.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on August 01, 2020, 03:29:PM
Quite shocking.

Indeed.  I have been reading about Pol Pot lately. Probably the worst leader of modern times.
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on August 24, 2020, 09:20:PM
Here we go again.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/23/kim-jong-un-coma-transferring-powers-sister-diplomat-claims-13167203/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/23/kim-jong-un-coma-transferring-powers-sister-diplomat-claims-13167203/)

I will believe it when the state funeral happens
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: David1819 on September 12, 2020, 12:27:PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8723823/North-Korea-executes-five-Economic-Ministry-workers-criticised-Kims-policies.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8723823/North-Korea-executes-five-Economic-Ministry-workers-criticised-Kims-policies.html)
Title: Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
Post by: Roch on September 25, 2020, 09:30:AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54291550