Jeremy Bamber Forum

OTHER HIGH PROFILE CASES => Luke Mitchell and the murder of Jodi Jones => Topic started by: nugnug on October 24, 2019, 02:09:PM

Title: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on October 24, 2019, 02:09:PM
https://t.co/hhAGkMWHG5?amp=1

who was the stocky man seen follwing jodi up the path.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Lithium on October 30, 2019, 02:46:PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ib21bcK.gif)
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on October 30, 2019, 04:04:PM
how is it fake news exactly an eye witness who knew jodi saw a stocky man follwing her onto the path unndisputable fact unless yur cliam this witness is lying.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on October 30, 2019, 11:37:PM
S.Lean.
Quote
I accept that it is more accurate to say, "Since gaining access to the case papers, my stance has always been that no-one, ever, saw Jodi walk into the entrance to the path," - until I had access to the papers, I could not have known that to be factually correct.

Nugnug
Quote
how is it fake news exactly an eye witness who knew jodi saw a stocky man follwing her onto the path unndisputable fact unless yur cliam this witness is lying

Back to the drawing board perhaps?

Nugnug
Quote
how do you know I happened in 44 minutes.

And back to the basics - perhaps concentrating on one murder case at a time - may benefit. Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on October 30, 2019, 11:57:PM
so who do youthink was the man follwing her then.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Lithium on November 03, 2019, 12:19:PM
No one.

Random guy walking down a street.

She wasn't followed onto the path and certainly didn't climb over a wall with someone who was stalking her.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 06, 2019, 02:18:PM
Yeah, random guy a witness claims was carrying her coffin at her funeral.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 06, 2019, 04:01:PM
Quote
Yeah, random guy a witness claims was carrying her coffin at her funeral.


That of course makes perfect sense - so not only was he closely related to this girls family (that he would be carrying her coffin), she was oblivious to
him walking behind her. And of course we have to add on this confession.

CM clearly states in her podcast that this male was one and the same - that they were following this girl and had confessed to this murder.
Marty - do you actually believe this? That a member of this girls family, managed somehow to follow Jodi, that he somehow got her into this wood,
killed her and then confessed - then the police simply shrugged this aside.

CM would not be deliberately trying to mislead with wrongful information pieced together - would she?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 06, 2019, 07:40:PM
if theres nothing suspicious about this alleedly random guy why the hell would he not come  forward.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 06, 2019, 08:23:PM
Quote
if theres nothing suspicious about this alleedly random guy why the hell would he not come  forward

You will find the answer to your question in CM's Podcast, perhaps you missed it whilst viewing.
He obviously did come forward and confessed. What more can be given here?
Unless of course you have doubts in how truthful CM is?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 06, 2019, 09:03:PM
You will find the answer to your question in CM's Podcast, perhaps you missed it whilst viewing.
He obviously did come forward and confessed. What more can be given here?
Unless of course you have doubts in how truthful CM is?

corine said there was a confesion nothing more she never said who confessed.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 06, 2019, 11:56:PM
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Waverley+St,+Mayfield,+Dalkeith+EH22+5SF/29+Stone+Pl,+Mayfield,+Dalkeith+EH22+5PW/Easthouses+Rd,+Dalkeith/@55.8749139,-3.0546179,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887bc26970f09d5:0xe0fa77f7d6a46607!2m2!1d-3.0450534!2d55.8695425!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887bc2428f3f39d:0xef07d070f2a08a33!2m2!1d-3.043921!2d55.8681578!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887bc1e0b55462d:0x8ffd926da7fc4d93!2m2!1d-3.0489249!2d55.8816465!3e2

So the person who was positively ID then is not the guy walking behind a girl on this road?
As she clearly states, when asked who she thinks killed this girl - "the person who was positively Identified and confessed".
We can see of course that she is not telling the truth in this podcast and doing the exact same as Ms Lean:
Of having to pass this cousins house on their way to this path, of having to walk directly passed it.
This is a blatant piece of misinformation - The search trio would have had to walk back the way to pass where YW stayed, then backtracked to walk
to Easthouse's
Also, this lady has obviously, studied and fought this case hard for her son for 16yrs -

JE "what time was Jodi's body found?"  CM " It was late, about 11 oclock"  Really? Luke had claimed to have just entered onto this path at 10.59pm.
This is but two simple yet  disturbingly wrong pieces of information - What is the need, if Luke is innocent to falsify the evidence?
This girl was reported missing at 10.50pm - is CM telling us something here, are there any calls in those logs to CM around 11pm?

If CM can be so far of the mark - with the information she is pushing out, surely all must be taken with a pinch of salt.
It is literally being made up?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 07, 2019, 12:00:AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ib21bcK.gif)

The more I have looked into these areas of selective word play - the more fake news - becomes apparent.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 07, 2019, 12:17:AM
And we do of course take this positive identification with a pinch of the same salt.
One of these potential? witnesses gave this the same level of positive identification - of a completely wrong male.
Who was of course out of the country.
What is apparently clear, is that this other so called, positive ID is also completely wrong.
Seems abundantly clear why this was taken no further.
Wrong day, wrong time, wrong males and wrong girl.
Chopping hair off to look like someone on a bike.
Taking same said bike to a scrapyard.
Transporting themselves to numerous places.
Confessing and being positively ID'd.
And we are being asked to consider the evidence against Luke as being wrong?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 07, 2019, 02:59:PM
And we do of course take this positive identification with a pinch of the same salt.
One of these potential? witnesses gave this the same level of positive identification - of a completely wrong male.
Who was of course out of the country.
What is apparently clear, is that this other so called, positive ID is also completely wrong.
Seems abundantly clear why this was taken no further.
Wrong day, wrong time, wrong males and wrong girl.
Chopping hair off to look like someone on a bike.
Taking same said bike to a scrapyard.
Transporting themselves to numerous places.
Confessing and being positively ID'd.
And we are being asked to consider the evidence against Luke as being wrong?

the witneses concerned did actully know jodi so it can be defanatly established thatit was jodithey saw being follwed by somebodygoingtowards a place where her bodywas later found.

anyone who thinks thats not signifcant needs a brain transplant
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 07, 2019, 03:48:PM
Unless of course you have doubts in how truthful CM is?


That of the emphasis put on this jacket by CM in the podcast - of Luke hating jackets, of how difficult it was to get him to wear one, of her surprise in not only wanting to purchase a jacket, but a parka jacket at that.

In 2010 CM said that the police have had his green Parka all along. Implying that they made up it was missing and framing him.

Did she repeat this in the podcast?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 07, 2019, 04:21:PM

In 2010 CM said that the police have had his green Parka all along. Implying that they made up it was missing and framing him.

Did she repeat this in the podcast?

have you ever thought of listning to the podcast.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 07, 2019, 06:31:PM

In 2010 CM said that the police have had his green Parka all along. Implying that they made up it was missing and framing him.

Did she repeat this in the podcast?

It is another troubling part of the whole podcast - clear intention to mislead away from the missing parka.
She goes into great detail around this new purchase.
Of the FLO lying every time she opened her mouth.
Of the FLO taking the receipt upon their return from shopping.
More so that you could not get Luke to wear a jacket - he hated them.
That she tried not to buy the jacket - stating, but you don't wear jackets Luke,
you never wear jackets, why this type of jacket - it is July.
Aye mum but mum it will be winter soon, so Luke? you still don't wear jackets.
Aye mum it is in a sale though - PING.
The word sale to any mum means you just have to buy.

By all accounts - it appears Luke was wearing two on the 30th of June.
The missing parka jacket - then changed into his green blouson jacket.
We already know it was an overcast, wet cooler day.
Why the need to emphasis that her son, even in winter would barely wear one?
He clearly did wear jackets - and did on this particular day.
It has always been clear that this purchase was to replace the one he had previously.
Perhaps showing yet again - how Luke could not out smarten the police, which CM
clearly points out - that he was far more intelligent than the police?
Perhaps hoping - that this purchase would go unnoticed, but it did not.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 07, 2019, 06:49:PM
another desprate to take the thread away from the stocky man.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 07, 2019, 07:06:PM
Quote
the witneses concerned did actully know jodi so it can be defanatly established thatit was jodithey saw being follwed by somebodygoingtowards a place where her bodywas later found.

anyone who thinks thats not signifcant needs a brain transplant


Are we not joining the dots correctly?
What do you make of Luke's hair colour - very dark almost black hair when younger. Dirty blonde in his photo ID pic in August.
Brown in the media pics and brown in this ponytail ones from court. One can easily see how on a dull, wet day this hair can
be mistaken for being dark, maybe reddish - definitely with sticky out clumpy bits.
How often did he wear that hair band, flattening his hair to his head, making the bottom and back - clumpy and sticking out.
And his love of course for military style clothing, khaki green with German badges. And of course high boots.
Thinking here also of AB's brother in law - of his mention of army style clothing and of this fisherman type jacket.
AB appears to have said somewhere in all of this, something of military style clothing?


When It comes to evidence that clearly shows, for the majority that Luke and Jodi were the couple witnessed at the entrance to this path,
the wrongful identification of this male, the non confirmation of time and indeed of this even being Jodi rightfully goes on the back burner.
The police clearly did try to establish if this merited further investigation. In the hope that, If this was Jodi then this male may have been
able to provide further information on the sighting of her with Luke.
What is abundantly clear is that one of these witnesses were completely wrong in their identification.
Marty clearly states either this or the other witness - picked this guy out from carrying this girls coffin.
You are stating this witness knew Jodi yet was not at her funeral? as they picked this male out from seeing the funeral via a media source.
Feasible to say that this witness did not know this girl well enough that she did not know her close family.
And the tying of different witnesses into one - the sighting of Jodi on Easthouse's road by someone who knew Jodi - comes under Ms Leans
calculations of an 8minute walk to the entrance of this path - clearly the main R'd that leads up to Mayfield.
The same sighting that takes in a trip to the local shops, of two sets of steps - heading in the other direction?
If you are now attempting to say, that one of the witnesses with this male in view - knew Jodi, then why did the police not mention this in any appeal.
They clearly gave descriptions of a girl who may have been Jodi, not one that they knew this to be Jodi? I could be wrong, if I am then you will have to
excuse me - it is rather difficult to keep track, very messy.


 

This article is obviously full of flaws -
They state it is Jodi, the police state it may have been, they state her mother put out a public appeal - not the aunts.
They do state this was around 5pm and not after or before.
The police - clearly by the 17th of July were looking to further establish the sighting by AB - Luke was the main suspect.
They did however and rightly so - choose to seek this male for information and elimination purpose.
You will have to excuse me here, if I choose to take the investigation account over that of Ms Leans, Ms Mitchells or indeed yourself Nugnug.
It is far fetched to the extreme - a complete mis-match of one liners from multiple statements. Blatant wrongful information and wild theories.
It is hardly surprising the level of support gained from this - 'there was semen and sperm from about 10 men all over the body'
"there was a mystery man seen following this girl up the path" "The sisters boyfriend was there around the TOD" " The cousin cut his hair to look like
someone on the bike"  "how easy would it be to take a bike, a knife, bloody clothing, chuck it in a van, put it in a crusher and gone forever" Not any old bike of course
the one that was impossibly seen at this V in the wall - Not that Ms Mitchell is pointing any fingers here. Just highlighting her and Ms Leans theory.
There is no parka jacket but if there was - it is possibly MK's. "The search trio HAD to walk directly passed YW's"  "The search trio were out searching for someone else"
It is the same mismatched placed theories for over a decade - started by Jigsawman - Ms Lean?   

Brain transplant - the positive ID of the male, via a funeral then confessed to this murder. OK. Maybe I do require one, unlike the majority of intellectual support,
do I appear to be joining the dots incorrectly?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 07, 2019, 07:39:PM
the fact she dident seem that bothred by his presence sugests he knew her i think.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: WakeyWakey on November 08, 2019, 12:19:AM
the fact she dident seem that bothred by his presence sugests he knew her i think.

Youre so close to a brakethrough here nug.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 08, 2019, 02:24:PM
It is another troubling part of the whole podcast - clear intention to mislead away from the missing parka.
She goes into great detail around this new purchase.
Of the FLO lying every time she opened her mouth.
Of the FLO taking the receipt upon their return from shopping.
More so that you could not get Luke to wear a jacket - he hated them.
That she tried not to buy the jacket - stating, but you don't wear jackets Luke,
you never wear jackets, why this type of jacket - it is July.
Aye mum but mum it will be winter soon, so Luke? you still don't wear jackets.
Aye mum it is in a sale though - PING.
The word sale to any mum means you just have to buy.

By all accounts - it appears Luke was wearing two on the 30th of June.
The missing parka jacket - then changed into his green blouson jacket.
We already know it was an overcast, wet cooler day.
Why the need to emphasis that her son, even in winter would barely wear one?
He clearly did wear jackets - and did on this particular day.
It has always been clear that this purchase was to replace the one he had previously.
Perhaps showing yet again - how Luke could not out smarten the police, which CM
clearly points out - that he was far more intelligent than the police?
Perhaps hoping - that this purchase would go unnoticed, but it did not.

Maybe someone can make a video of all her contradictions?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 08, 2019, 05:14:PM
Maybe someone can make a video of all her contradictions?

so you declaring her video to have contradictions without ever having watched it

what an idiot.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 08, 2019, 07:56:PM
Quote
By all accounts - it appears Luke was wearing two on the 30th of June.
The missing parka jacket - then changed into his green blouson jacket.

Well, by all accounts, he was actually wearing three jackets (potentially four), a German army shirt and a blue hoodie.

However, even if there were only two jackets by "all accounts" your timeline is out somewhat. He'd have to have been wearing the bomber jacket, then changed into the Parka, then changed back into the bomber jacket.

But if we're going by all actual accounts, he was wearing a bomber jacket, changed into matching fishing jacket and trousers, changed from that into a Parka jacket, then from that into a blue hoodie, back into a dark jacket that might have been a Parka (and dyed his hair), dyed his hair back again and changed into a German Army shirt and then back into the bomber jacket. And let not a trace of any of this anywhere.

Don't shoot the messenger (you will anyway!) - that's what "all accounts" require us to believe.


Quote
We already know it was an overcast, wet cooler day.

No you don't. And it wasn't. Did AB mention rain/cold/overcast in any of her statements? No, in fact, the reason for one of her possible routes was so that the children could see the horses on the way home.

Does the reconstruction depict a wet/cold/overcast day? Nope.

Did any of the witnesses mention wet, cold overcast weather? No, not one.

Quote
It has always been clear that this purchase was to replace the one he had previously.
Perhaps showing yet again - how Luke could not out smarten the police, which CM
clearly points out - that he was far more intelligent than the police?
Perhaps hoping - that this purchase would go unnoticed, but it did not.

That would actually be quite funny, Parky, if it wasn't so sad. The liaison officer had been in attendance for 9 days. The Mitchell family's every move was being watched, their every word being questioned. What on earth makes you think they believed that anything in those circumstances, would "go unnoticed"?

If it was clear that this purchase was to "replace the one he had previously," why didn't they arrest him right there and then, the minute the liaison officer asked for the receipt and Corinne gave it to her? That should have been the "Gotcha" moment, if it was so clear and they were so sure it was a replacement. But, no, even five weeks later, there's no mention of the "replacement" jacket that they have the receipt for - instead, they choose to interrogate Luke about a German army shirt that, they claim, "dozens" of witnesses have described seeing Luke wearing that very evening.

Why bother? If it was all so clear and obvious, why waste so much time on other, obviously irrelevant stuff? In fact, why leave their "dangerous suspect" at large in the community for another 9 months after they had the receipt as "proof" that the Parka was bought as a "replacement"?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 08, 2019, 08:21:PM
The word totties comes to mind :))
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Lithium on November 09, 2019, 10:47:AM
Youre so close to a brakethrough here nug.

 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 09, 2019, 12:48:PM
Quote
That would actually be quite funny, Parky, if it wasn't so sad. The liaison officer had been in attendance for 9 days. The Mitchell family's every move was being watched, their every word being questioned. What on earth makes you think they believed that anything in those circumstances, would "go unnoticed"?

If it was clear that this purchase was to "replace the one he had previously," why didn't they arrest him right there and then, the minute the liaison officer asked for the receipt and Corinne gave it to her? That should have been the "Gotcha" moment, if it was so clear and they were so sure it was a replacement. But, no, even five weeks later, there's no mention of the "replacement" jacket that they have the receipt for - instead, they choose to interrogate Luke about a German army shirt that, they claim, "dozens" of witnesses have described seeing Luke wearing that very evening.

Why bother? If it was all so clear and obvious, why waste so much time on other, obviously irrelevant stuff? In fact, why leave their "dangerous suspect" at large in the community for another 9 months after they had the receipt as "proof" that the Parka was bought as a "replacement"?

Ah, so Just 9 days, on day 3 the 2nd of July a diagram was drawn for the FLO of X marks the spot - I believe the reason giving for the diagram,
was they thought this police officer was a family friend - and not a police office, first and foremost, one gathering evidence.
By day 9 no questions were being asked about a Parka. No dealings with the police before. Perhaps this is an area where Luke thought he was more intelligent
than the police? CM clearly states that he was far more intelligent than the police.
That the police, will at some point discover he owned and wore a Parka Jacket - that at some point they would realise it was missing.
Did they actually expect that the receipts would be taken for this clothing? Where they that in tune with the workings of investigations?
And again we see here these claims of "every move being watched" Just a little OTT. The FLO most definitely would not have been with the Mitchells 24/7.
So, no - it is not clear, that the Mitchells would have expected these receipts to be taken. Why would they have expected this? Would it not be more accurate
to say, they hoped this purchase would go unnoticed - for that day, when the police would be looking for this jacket?
Again - Luke feeling he could out smarten the police - Luke didn't bank on the police being the police though, did he? As opposed to CM claiming the police
thought they could out smarten Luke - "The police didn't bank on Luke being Luke though"
 
The house was raided on the 4th and nothing found -  Why on earth would Luke and CM feel that receipts for new clothing would be taken? after this?
Mostly here - When the police are building  a case against someone - it would be rather foolish to hand the suspect everything on a plate, would it not?
And of course - what is being discussed here is of afterwards - Of all the evidence, once gathered and fitted together (we know, shoehorned)
It is after all the gathering of evidence - Even if the police, had found a knife say on day 9, they would  not make an immediate arrest, it would be taken to be
tested.
Rather a silly comment to make - that if they were so sure this was a replacement they would arrest him right there and then?! in this "Gotcha" moment.
Akin  perhaps to CM's line of reasoning - That Finlay could have just toddled off into court, said " Your Honour, we have blood, semen, hair and fibre - none of it my clients,
I rest my case"  Again pushing that high level of intellect forward.

Of course, I don't have "all of the evidence"  yet this green army shirt, the police were interrogating Luke about - would be khaki green with a German badge. So they most
definitely were on the right track here, keeping the jacket under wraps?  Talking of under, was Luke actually wearing a green army shirt with a German badge that evening?
Under his green 'pilot' jacket, over his black t-shirt with the infamous writing on it? How did anyone even manage to describe this?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 09, 2019, 01:06:PM
:)) :)) :))

so who waas he then lithm why did he never come forward he wa follwing jodi to theplace where shewas later murdered

ws he the murderer

why was he followin her.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 09, 2019, 08:02:PM
If this guy has also been seen carrying the coffin and confessed to the murder. Then whoever is spreading this crap should know the name of the guy they are trying to pin the murder on.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 09, 2019, 09:19:PM
If this guy has also been seen carrying the coffin and confessed to the murder. Then whoever is spreading this crap should know the name of the guy they are trying to pin the murder on.


ive heard nothing about him being the same man as the guy who carried the coffin

people have speclated bout simlaritys but I do not belive anyone has positively identfeid them as the  same person..
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 10, 2019, 12:38:AM
If this guy has also been seen carrying the coffin and confessed to the murder. Then whoever is spreading this crap should know the name of the guy they are trying to pin the murder on.

JE: "who do you think killed Jodi Jones?"
CM: "The person who confessed,  the person who was positively Identified"

This comes after the theory of:
JF cutting his hair to look like one of the duo on the bike - I kid you not.
That JF was never on this bike.
That this bike, along with a knife, bloody clothing was put in the back of van,
put in a crusher and gone forever.
This theory - is a joint one from both CM and Sandra.
But they are not pointing the finger at anyone - oops!
But who was he cutting his hair to look like?
Surely not the person who was carrying the coffin, positively Identified and confessed?
How therefore did this person who was positively Identified, transport himself from Easthouses Road
to Basically tool hire?
And really, the biggest question of all should be - why all the theories, surely the confessor told all?
Gordo is certainly in on this theory - I was asked a question about a scrapyard, of how easy it would be to dispose of
incriminating evidence.
Shane is a mechanic, one would imagine has dealings with scrap merchants. There was a bike at the railings of this path,
some confusion over Luke being on one - did this wonderful theory stem from some truth?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 10, 2019, 06:39:PM
Was this guy seen by Bryson when she saw Luke with Jodi together?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 10, 2019, 07:14:PM
Was this guy seen by Bryson when she saw Luke with Jodi together?

of course he wasnt bryson was somwhere

this man was seen by somone who actully knew jodi.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 10, 2019, 08:48:PM
Was this guy seen by Bryson when she saw Luke with Jodi together?

He wasn't seen until 10 - 15 minutes after Mrs Bryson's "sighting" - so who was right about the girl "sighted" - Mrs Bryson, who didn't know Jodi and described someone completely different, or a witness  who knew Jodi? Because, if it's the latter, then Mrs Bryson's "sighting" can't stand.

And, of course, there were two witnesses to Stocky Man and a girl, further up the Easthouses Road (than the Bryson "sighting") at 5.05pm. So, since we're being particular about numbers of witnesses, which is more credible - one witness who knew none of the people involved or two witnesses, independent of each other, who described the same scenario (Stocky Man following closely behind a girl at 5.05pm), one of whom knew Jodi?

It's not a trick question.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 10, 2019, 11:27:PM
The girls that knew Jodi, how strong were their statements? Did they say it was Jodi or could have been? If they were sure it was her then that’s a much more credible sighting. Do you have a copy of their statements?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 10, 2019, 11:52:PM
This is not a trick question either - it is simply to establish and help with something that is not clear in all of this.
Where did this positive Identification of someone who knew Jodi take place - was it on the main Easthouses Road from Woodburn to Mayfield? As you state here that Brysons
sighting can't stand - we would assume then that this sighting was further away? I'm thinking here of your 8min walk to the path?
Or was it on the smaller Easthouses Road that leads onto Morris Road? Simply put, did one of the witnesses to Stocky man know Jodi and identify that it
was definitely her.?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 11, 2019, 12:07:AM
The girls that knew Jodi, how strong were their statements? Did they say it was Jodi or could have been? If they were sure it was her then that’s a much more credible sighting. Do you have a copy of their statements?

This perhaps answers my question? Not sure why I thought the two witnesses to Stocky man may have been male?
You mention girls that knew Jodi - and their statements? So not the independent sightings of Stocky man
then?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 11, 2019, 12:15:AM
The girls that knew Jodi, how strong were their statements? Did they say it was Jodi or could have been? If they were sure it was her then that’s a much more credible sighting. Do you have a copy of their statements?

i think its a mor creible sighting just by the fact they knew her and bryson dident or cliamed. not to

it also coincedes almost perfectly with the time given for jodi leaving home.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 11, 2019, 07:51:AM
This is not a trick question either - it is simply to establish and help with something that is not clear in all of this.
Where did this positive Identification of someone who knew Jodi take place - was it on the main Easthouses Road from Woodburn to Mayfield? As you state here that Brysons
sighting can't stand - we would assume then that this sighting was further away? I'm thinking here of your 8min walk to the path?
Or was it on the smaller Easthouses Road that leads onto Morris Road? Simply put, did one of the witnesses to Stocky man know Jodi and identify that it
was definitely her.?

The two independent witnesses who say a girl who matched Jodi's description (of whom knew Jodi) made their sighting on the Easthouses Road leading to Morris Road, up in front of the row of houses where Jodi lived at about 5.05pm.

Bryson made her "sighting" (according to the final version) at 4.49 - 4.54 as she was turning the car around the sharp bend at the Easthouses entrance to the path - again on the Easthouses Road leading to Morris Road and approximately 2 minutes walk away from the other sighting.

No-one has ever come forward to say they saw Jodi on the path (or the entrance track) - the "8 minute walk" to which you refer is an approximation, based on police timings, the walk from the junction of the paths behind Newbattle High School to the V break took 6 mins 40 seconds, but they did not time the walk from the Easthouses Road (leading to Morris Road) to the junction of the paths - I rounded the time up to 8 minutes to include that (although I believe it is actually slightly longer).
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 11, 2019, 08:01:AM
This perhaps answers my question? Not sure why I thought the two witnesses to Stocky man may have been male?
You mention girls that knew Jodi - and their statements? So not the independent sightings of Stocky man
then?

The witnesses were one male, one female - at no point did I say "girls" - this may simply have been a misunderstanding that has crept in over time.

You're taking "independent" to a whole new level here, Parky. I said "independent from each other" - i.e. neither knew the other had given a statement, therefore their statements could not have been influenced by each other and therefore provide true corroboration - two people saw a girl with a male following closely behind her, one gave a description matching Jodi, the other knew Jodi by sight.

To clear up one further misunderstanding, one of those witnesses thought he saw Stocky Man a week later at the reconstruction. He was mistaken - the man he pointed out to police was not anywhere near Easthouses  on the night of June 30th (and could prove that), so he could not have been Stocky Man. Contrary to newspaper reporting at the time, Stocky Man was not traced - the person who was traced was the one mistakenly picked out by the witness.

This was before the positive identification of Stocky Man some 9 weeks later, when he was picked out from a group of males, all of whom looked "similar" - like an ID parade, properly done, would have required.

Is that a more credible identification than the picking out of Luke from a spread of photos obviously intended to highlight him as the chosen target (not just my opinion, but the opinion of a number of experts)?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 11, 2019, 11:55:AM
Quote from: Bullseye on Yesterday at 11:27 PM
Quote
The girls that knew Jodi, how strong were their statements? Did they say it was Jodi or could have been? If they were sure it was her then that’s a much more credible sighting. Do you have a copy of their statements?


Quote
This perhaps answers my question? Not sure why I thought the two witnesses to Stocky man may have been male?
You mention girls that knew Jodi - and their statements? So not the independent sightings of Stocky man

SL:
Quote
You're taking "independent" to a whole new level here, Parky. I said "independent from each other"

Thank you for answering for Bullseye (?). I did however say "So not the independent sightings of Stocky man" Not that these sightings were not
independent from each other. Simply stating that Bullseye was perhaps referring to different sightings altogether.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 11, 2019, 01:09:PM
Quote
To clear up one further misunderstanding, one of those witnesses thought he saw Stocky Man a week later at the reconstruction. He was mistaken - the man he pointed out to police was not anywhere near Easthouses  on the night of June 30th (and could prove that), so he could not have been Stocky Man. Contrary to newspaper reporting at the time, Stocky Man was not traced - the person who was traced was the one mistakenly picked out by the witness.

This was before the positive identification of Stocky Man some 9 weeks later, when he was picked out from a group of males, all of whom looked "similar" - like an ID parade, properly done, would have required.

Is that a more credible identification than the picking out of Luke from a spread of photos obviously intended to highlight him as the chosen target (not just my opinion, but the opinion of a number of experts)?


Let us clear this up a little more - a male and a female say they saw a girl walking along Easthouses "at or around 5.05pm" with a male following closely behind.
The male witness further Identified Stocky man from a  high five - this witness was completely wrong in their "positive" Identification.
"Some 9 weeks later" - Ms Lean Omits to say where this sighting was. We know however this girls funeral was "some 9 weeks later"

Of course, above does not tell us if this was by the male, who already gave a wrongful ID or the female.
We are told here of course that, this was also a "positive identification of Stocky Man" from a group of males who all looked "similar"
This sounds familiar to the Identification of the group of males, where two gave a high 5?
Actually, as usual, it tells us very little - bar the need to try and show this was a positive ID.
Marty, as have others, make the assumption/claim that this was of carrying this girls coffin.
This of course is not picked up on by Ms Lean - to dispel this myth. 
The only people, who appear to have carried this girls coffin, are four people from the funeral directors.
I simply googled this, I am not going to put pictures of people up, that may cause finger pointing towards them?!
This claimed positive identification is not, one would assume correct from carrying this girls coffin. Or is Marty claiming it was
a member of the funeral directors?
This identification of males who were "similar" - in what way? that they were all dressed in black?
Messy!


So, no - it is not, a more credible identification from picking Luke out, from a photo identification of 12 young males.
One in which AB positively identified him, and further clarified this Identification - from media pictures, which only appeared, after
this photo ID.
There is absolutely nothing in this that merits this identification, "some 9 weeks later" as being credible, or positive.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 11, 2019, 03:14:PM
My mistake sorry, I always thought it was 2 girls but as Sandra has clarified it was a male and female, thanks Sandra.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 11, 2019, 04:00:PM
Parky, i read a paragraph of your last post. Im sure it was the female witness who witnessed the high five, messy
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 11, 2019, 04:17:PM
Parky, i read a paragraph of your last post. Im sure it was the female witness who witnessed the high five, messy

Thank you Marty - that is at least something. I'll keep this very short. Can you help clarify where you got
the impression, that stocky man was identified from carrying this girls coffin?

Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 11, 2019, 04:20:PM
Parky, i read a paragraph of your last post. Im sure it was the female witness who witnessed the high five, messy

Quote
To clear up one further misunderstanding, one of those witnesses thought he saw Stocky Man a week later at the reconstruction. He was mistaken - the man he pointed out to police was not anywhere near

Ms Lean is sure that the witness was male Marty - I agree though, it is rather messy.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 11, 2019, 04:45:PM
Yes, so the female saw the high five
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 11, 2019, 04:51:PM
Parky, i read a paragraph of your last post. Im sure it was the female witness who witnessed the high five, messy

the high 5 comes from brsyons statement about her alleged.  sighting
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 11, 2019, 05:16:PM
the high 5 comes from brsyons statement about her alleged.

I dont tbink so nugs, someone came forward nine weeks after. Well if im reading sandras last post correctly. Nothing to do with bryson, i didnt think she wtnessed stocky man as her sightings were too early.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 11, 2019, 07:44:PM
I dont tbink so nugs, someone came forward nine weeks after. Well if im reading sandras last post correctly. Nothing to do with bryson, i didnt think she wtnessed stocky man as her sightings were too early.

sthe stocky man could not of high fived her he wasnt facing her hewas behind her..

the highfive story comes from brysons sighting.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 12, 2019, 09:00:PM
S.Lean:
Quote
These ridiculous maniplulations and misrepresentations are designed to confuse people and mire the discussion in petty arguments.

Couldn't agree more when you continually have the following manipulations and misrepresentations being pushed out to confuse;
These of course stem from the originator of the main source of information - that in itself is so badly manipulated and misrepresented.
And we see the following type of misrepresentation - it is left to cause confusion, unless it is by Lithium who is swiftly put into place?

S.Lean:
Quote
You mention that Andrina Bryson's brother-in-law was in Yvonne Walker's house "a few months after the murder, knowing that that is a different event from the one being discussed - it was six weeks

Nugnug:
Quote
sthe stocky man could not of high fived her he wasnt facing her hewas behind her..

Marty:
Quote
the highfive story comes from brysons sighting.

Nugnug:
Quote
the high 5 comes from brsyons statement about her alleged.  sighting

Quote
ive heard nothing about him being the same man as the guy who carried the coffin

Quote
people have speclated bout simlaritys but I do not belive anyone has positively identfeid them as the  same person..

Marty:
Quote
Yeah, random guy a witness claims was carrying her coffin at her funeral
.

Clearly showing how information grows arms and legs - when the original source stems from one liners,
misrepresentation of facts and wild theories?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 13, 2019, 07:52:AM

Couldn't agree more when you continually have the following manipulations and misrepresentations being pushed out to confuse;
These of course stem from the originator of the main source of information - that in itself is so badly manipulated and misrepresented.
And we see the following type of misrepresentation - it is left to cause confusion, unless it is by Lithium who is swiftly put into place?

Clearly showing how information grows arms and legs - when the original source stems from one liners,
misrepresentation of facts and wild theories?

Really Parky? I try to correct every single misunderstanding I see and have always been very public about doing so. There are many posts which are long, convoluted and contradictory (yours being some of them) - I simply do not have the time to read every single word to see if I missed anything. But usually, when things are brought to my attention that I have missed, I also do my best to correct them. So, for example, one of your posts:

Quote
JE: "who do you think killed Jodi Jones?"
CM: "The person who confessed,  the person who was positively Identified"

This comes after the theory of:
JF cutting his hair to look like one of the duo on the bike - I kid you not.
That JF was never on this bike.
That this bike, along with a knife, bloody clothing was put in the back of van,
put in a crusher and gone forever.
This theory - is a joint one from both CM and Sandra.
But they are not pointing the finger at anyone - oops!

First of all, did you check that this was, in fact a "joint theory?" It isn't - Corinne was mistaken, it was merely a possibility that was discussed when it was discovered that the descriptions of the boys on the moped from the tool hire staff did not match the descriptions they boys, themselves gave. To my knowledge, I have never discussed the bike "along with a knife, bloody clothing" being put in a van, although the possibility of the bike being disposed of in a crusher at a local scrap yard was brought to us by a local person many years ago. Discussing possibilities may, technically, be referred to as theorising, but had that been the case, then I would have done everything I could to see if the theory was proven/disproven - I didn't because it was a simple discussion amongst many over the years.

Quote
But who was he cutting his hair to look like?
Surely not the person who was carrying the coffin, positively Identified and confessed?

Where did I ever suggest Stocky Man was identified "carrying the coffin"? I didn't because seeing it posted here was the first time I'd heard such a possibility was being floated.

Quote
How therefore did this person who was positively Identified, transport himself from Easthouses Road to Basically tool hire?
And really, the biggest question of all should be - why all the theories, surely the confessor told all?
Gordo is certainly in on this theory - I was asked a question about a scrapyard, of how easy it would be to dispose of incriminating evidence.

Why do you assume the "confessor told all"? You know nothing of the events surrounding the confession and I'm not about to make public information that could potentially assist Luke's case in the future so, sorry, if that's not to your liking, so be it. But please don't then leap to conclusions about what other people "assume" from that when you, yourself, are quite capable of making completely unfounded assumptions.

I asked the same question about disposing of "incriminating evidence" in a scrapyard, face to face, with someone who worked in a scrappies. The first question he asked me was, "How would I know if it was "incriminating evidence"? He went on to say, if it was just an old piece of junk, scrapped, it would go through the crusher like everything else - they don't inspect everything going through the crusher in fine detail.


Quote
Shane is a mechanic, one would imagine has dealings with scrap merchants. There was a bike at the railings of this path,
some confusion over Luke being on one - did this wonderful theory stem from some truth?

I don't believe Shane is a mechanic, although he liked to work on cars. The bike at the railings was a pushbike, introduced by Dickie/Ferris (I don't remember, off hand, which one) in an attempt to implicate Luke - he said it was a yellow bike, like one Luke had. (Luke didn't).

I've already clarified where the "theory" (that wasn't) came from, so you won't need to speculate any further.

Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 13, 2019, 09:28:AM
Quote
Really Parky? I try to correct every single misunderstanding I see and have always been very public about doing so. There are many posts which are long, convoluted and contradictory (yours being some of them) - I simply do not have the time to read every single word to see if I missed anything. But usually, when things are brought to my attention that I have missed, I also do my best to correct them. So, for example, one of your posts:


Thank you for choosing my posts to do so rather than correcting Nugnug and Marty directly. You could of course, simply have said to them, after these posts:

Quote
sthe stocky man could not of high fived her he wasnt facing her hewas behind her..

the highfive story comes from brysons sighting.

the high 5 comes from brsyons statement about her alleged.  sighting

ive heard nothing about him being the same man as the guy who carried the coffin

people have speclated bout simlaritys but I do not belive anyone has positively identfeid them as the  same person..

Marty
Yeah, random guy a witness claims was carrying her coffin at her funeral.

"These ridiculous maniplulations and misrepresentations

Nugnug and Marty?

"are designed to confuse people and mire the discussion in petty arguments."

Quote
Where did I ever suggest Stocky Man was identified "carrying the coffin"? I didn't because seeing it posted here was the first time I'd heard such a possibility was being floated
[/b]

There you have it Marty and nugnug - these arms and legs around carrying a coffin are unfounded, where on earth could you have gotten this silly notion from?
It most certainly is not from Ms Lean - after all, all she states is that this ID was "some 9 weeks later from a group of males who all looked similar"
Quads? sextuplets? men in black? So there is no Identification from carrying a coffin. Anyone's coffin. Plain and simple. And stop being silly Nugnug and Marty with
these deliberate "manipulations and misrepresentations" which are designed to confuse people away from discussion. The high five was from the week of the
reconstruction, when this witness ALSO got their identification of Stocky man, completely wrong. When they picked him out from a group of males ("who looked similar")
He was simply out of the country.
What we do know from these identifications is that they were known prior to this trial, the timings, the possible sightings of Jodi - even from. the one who claimed to "know her by sight". Was available to the defence.
It is good to get clarification that around 5pm that evening, there may have been other witnesses who saw this girl walking in the direction of this path - where she met Luke, around 5pm. For that is what Findlay could only have  used from these.
I simply do not buy that any defence, would not be allowed to use evidence, that could have showing clearly that Jodi was somewhere else, other than seen by AB, when she was sighted with Luke.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 13, 2019, 09:48:AM
There's a big difference, Parky, between genuine misunderstandings/mistakes and deliberate manipulations and misrepresentations.

Please don't presume to know to whom I referred and most certainly don't redirect my comments towards people they were never intended to address in the first place.

Your approach is as transparent as it is disingenuous, Parky.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 13, 2019, 10:31:AM
Quote
There's a big difference, Parky, between genuine misunderstandings/mistakes and deliberate manipulations and misrepresentations.

Of course there is, I totally agree.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 13, 2019, 10:52:AM
Hi parky, I was sent the information about stockyman carrying the coffin on feb17th 2017 through private message. It stated that a third person had come forward regarding stockyman. This person had been at jodis funeral and seen him carrying the coffin. I was told not to mention it at the time. I forgot about that part and blurted it out. By the way, this person was not sandra!  I asked for clarification on it and was told that they had never hard that so it appears i was wrong and i appologise for that
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 13, 2019, 10:58:AM
Hi parky, I was sent the information about stockyman carrying the coffin on feb17th 2017 through private message. It stated that a third person had come forward regarding stockyman. This person had been at jodis funeral and seen him carrying the coffin. I was told not to mention it at the time. I forgot about that part and blurted it out. By the way, this person was not sandra!  I asked for clarification on it and was told that they had never hard that so it appears i was wrong and i appologise for that

Thank you Marty - the wonders of google, clarified for me that the men who carried this girls coffin, appear to have been from the funeral directors, being four of them.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 13, 2019, 11:06:AM
Quote
First of all, did you check that this was, in fact a "joint theory?" It isn't - Corinne was mistaken, it was merely a possibility that was discussed when it was discovered that the descriptions of the boys on the moped from the tool hire staff did not match the descriptions they boys, themselves gave. To my knowledge, I have never discussed the bike "along with a knife, bloody clothing" being put in a van, although the possibility of the bike being disposed of in a crusher at a local scrap yard was brought to us by a local person many years ago. Discussing possibilities may, technically, be referred to as theorising, but had that been the case, then I would have done everything I could to see if the theory was proven/disproven - I didn't because it was a simple discussion amongst many over the years.


Apologies Ms Lean, I had no reason to doubt that CM was telling anything other than the truth, when including yourself, the person who is fighting with her
for Luke's freedom.
So this gross mistake, that is being pushed out about these boys does not stem from both of you?
I'm seeing a little here, of the Journalist handing the red hair fastener story to Luke, also, the police handing the
Oak tree account to him.
It was not yourself, it was CM that thought up the story of the scrapyard, with the help of a local person. Who discussed the "possibility of a bike being disposed of in a crusher
at a local scrap yard" Where would this be local to?
After this rather wild set of theories on CM's podcast and Gordo's question (whom I believe is not local, to that area, staying some 20miles away) I looked into some scrap merchants. Much the same type of easy to access information, as was with the actual people who carried this girls coffin.
In the Midlothian area - it would appear the nearest one with this type of equipment, is no closer than Edinburgh itself. Therefore, not exactly local.
Why therefore, do we assume, CM in 2019 would be pushing out, this grossly wrong theory.

"To my knowledge" you had never stated, ever, that there was a mystery man on this path, or that SK was on this path - you had of course, in your book.
You have of course stated many times, that SK only had an alibi from his girlfriend, CM is still stating this as fact, again in 2019, in her podcast. When you, yourself now,
state that the SCCRC had brought the alibi of his father 'suddenly' to light, some 4-5yrs ago now. One would, correctly assume, CM is very much aware of this?


Therefore:

From CM's podcast we can dismiss this joint theory, this was only every a possibility introduced by a local to ?
From CM's podcast we can dismiss this claim that SK only had his girlfriend for an alibi.-he had his father also.
From CM's podcast we can dismiss this claim that Luke would not wear a jacket  - he did on a sunny? day. As with the new Parka, on sunny days.
From CM's podcast we can dismiss this claim of the search trio walking from the top of Mayfield.
From CM's podcast we can dismiss this stocky man and confessor being one and the same.
From CM's podcast we can dismiss this search trio HAVING to walk DIRECTLY passed YW's on their way to this path.
From your own podcast we can dismiss this search trio having to walk passed YW's
Perhaps the only thing we can not dismiss from CM's podcast is that Luke is her son.
Can the rest, be classed as manipulative, misrepresentation? or simple mistakes?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 13, 2019, 02:14:PM
Parky, I don't have time to go through your post line by line right now, but once again, you use a strange form of reasoning to create your "conclusions" - this is why I miss things that need to be corrected.

Just as a few examples, I did not say Corinne was dishonest. I did not say Corinne and a local "thought up the story of the scrapyard".

A theory can't be "grossly wrong" - it's a theory, remember?

The "alibi" of SK's father and the circumstances surrounding it remain questionable.

I'll come back to the rest, but it will be later this evening
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 13, 2019, 05:37:PM

The "alibi" of SK's father and the circumstances surrounding it remain questionable.


What about the inconsistencies in Luke's "alibi"?

Shane Mitchell believed he was all alone in the house and on-top of that admitted that his mother got him to lie in his statements. Shane's later honest account is corRoborated by computer records, his mothers track record of dis-honestly and all the circumstancial evidence against luke.


Does SKs alibi fall apart likes Luke's "alibi" does? They cannot both have killed her thus the person with the most inconsistent alibi is likely the perpetrator.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 13, 2019, 07:15:PM
I'd like to be sure that Parky accidentally copied and pasted a post from this thread and replied to it on another thread, while David timeously steps in and changes the subject on this thread.

Otherwise, I might be drawn to a conclusion or assumption (perhaps mistaken, perhaps not) that mischief making and game playing, rather than a genuine attempt at debate, are the order of the day.

Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 13, 2019, 10:21:PM
I'd like to be sure that Parky accidentally copied and pasted a post from this thread and replied to it on another thread, while David timeously steps in and changes the subject on this thread.

Otherwise, I might be drawn to a conclusion or assumption (perhaps mistaken, perhaps not) that mischief making and game playing, rather than a genuine attempt at debate, are the order of the day.

of course it is but its not going to work.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: David1819 on November 13, 2019, 11:18:PM
I'd like to be sure that Parky accidentally copied and pasted a post from this thread and replied to it on another thread, while David timeously steps in and changes the subject on this thread.

Otherwise, I might be drawn to a conclusion or assumption (perhaps mistaken, perhaps not) that mischief making and game playing, rather than a genuine attempt at debate, are the order of the day.

I don't read the majority of Parky41s posts. I find them too long and confusing (just saying)  :-\
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 14, 2019, 11:45:AM
Simply mistaken Sandra - I moved it back to the main thread for Nugnug. The topic had wandered off from Stocky Man.
The conversation was becoming more generalised around CM's podcast, of  blatant misrepresentation.
They had gotten a little upset previously when this happened.

When they had made the following comment;

Quote
another desprate to take the thread away from the stocky man.

I therefore moved the topic back onto Stocky man.
It was digressing, yet again, subsequently moving it to the general thread.
To be met with;

Quote
I'd like to be sure that Parky accidentally copied and pasted a post from this thread and replied to it on another thread, while David timeously steps in and changes the subject on this thread.

Otherwise, I might be drawn to a conclusion or assumption (perhaps mistaken, perhaps not) that mischief making and game playing, rather than a genuine attempt at debate, are the order of the day.


No game play, nor "over to you".
A young girl lost her life, her boyfriend is serving a life sentence for killing her. - it is no game.
Simply - no points to be won.
 
Quote
of course it is but its not going to work
.

It is of course, rather sad - that there does indeed appear to be some form of game play, with point scoring comments, and "over to you"
Having made it clear about my studies, and my search, as to why? the police sought to convict Luke - being, all but complete;
I will leave you in this game of "over to you" and of scoring points. (being a level of study in itself)
There is but one area left to complete. It may require, some, further assistance from yourselves.
It was after all, that simple piece of wrongful information, from yourselves - of the search trio having to walk passed YW's when going directly to this path, that prompted
my studies around this case.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 16, 2019, 05:54:PM
ive created another thread to talk about the albi.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10046.0.html
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 17, 2019, 01:13:AM
I think the sighting from the person that knew her is far more credible than ABs. But if the stocky guy was following her or simply walking behind her we will never know. Unless there is more to come out about this supposed confession.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 17, 2019, 01:19:AM
I think the sighting from the person that knew her is far more credible than ABs. But if the stocky guy was following her or simply walking behind her we will never know. Unless there is more to come out about this supposed confession.

well who ever he was he never came foward to give evedence.

assuming jodi was killed at that timeon the path even if he is not the killer he must of seen somthing.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 17, 2019, 01:40:AM
well who ever he was he never came foward to give evedence.

assuming jodi was killed at that timeon the path even if he is not the killer he must of seen somthing.

It’s very possible he is the killer and that is why he never came forward but imo it’s also possible it was just an average day for him, nothing out of the ordinary and he did not remember seeing anything that would help in the investigation and therefore did not come forward, he had no reason to. Was there an appeal for him to come forward?

Same goes for the 2 people at the top of the path AB saw, they, imo, were not Jodi and Luke, they also maybe didn’t come forward for the same reason. Don’t remember seeing anything
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 17, 2019, 01:55:AM
It’s very possible he is the killer and that is why he never came forward but imo it’s also possible it was just an average day for him, nothing out of the ordinary and he did not remember seeing anything that would help in the investigation and therefore did not come forward, he had no reason to. Was there an appeal for him to come forward?

Same goes for the 2 people at the top of the path AB saw, they, imo, were not Jodi and Luke, they also maybe didn’t come forward for the same reason. Don’t remember seeing anything

well even if hes not the killer and dident see her being killed her would stil have ital imformation about her ovements and the derection she took so any competent detective would want him to come forward.

i think theydid mak esuch an appeal but i cannot be certan

but if they dident you would have to askwhynot what were they playing at.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 17, 2019, 02:22:AM
well even if hes not the killer and dident see her being killed her would stil have ital imformation about her ovements and the derection she took so any competent detective would want him to come forward.

i think theydid mak esuch an appeal but i cannot be certan

but if they dident you would have to askwhynot what were they playing at.

It could simply be he doesn’t even remember seeing her, didn’t notice her. I walked to my folks then home again yesterday, I know there were other people around but I cant remember any of them apart from a mother and her child, because the wee girl was being cheeky and was getting told of by her mum, it was funny so gives me reason to remember them. As for the other folk I passed I have no idea. Could be same for him, so no reason to go to the police. I know I wouldn’t as I’d have nothing to tell them.

Be good to find out if there was an appeal for him to come forward, there certainly should have been!!
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 17, 2019, 02:38:AM
It could simply be he doesn’t even remember seeing her, didn’t notice her. I walked to my folks then home again yesterday, I know there were other people around but I cant remember any of them apart from a mother and her child, because the wee girl was being cheeky and was getting told of by her mum, it was funny so gives me reason to remember them. As for the other folk I passed I have no idea. Could be same for him, so no reason to go to the police. I know I wouldn’t as I’d have nothing to tell them.

Be good to find out if there was an appeal for him to come forward, there certainly should have been!!

to not rember seeing her i think he would have to have poor eyesight and never watch news. or read a newspaper

i mean thepress coveragee should of jogged his memory a bit and the distance bettween suggests he woulf of seen her.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 17, 2019, 07:49:AM
The appeal for stocky man first went out on July 16th, with reports stating that a witness thought he saw the same man at the reconstruction.

Although both the reports below said "around 5pm" we now know the witnesses said "about 5.05pm." What's never been explained is why the police waited so long to release the information about Stocky Man. When the man from the reconstruction came forward a couple of weeks later (and proved he was not Stocky Man), the media ran headlines saying "Mystery Man traced" and appeals for the real Stocky Man began to disappear.

To this day, I still talk to  people who say, "But the Stocky Man was traced" - the power of the media!

By the end of July, police were still appealing for a young blonde woman seen pushing a buggy towards Easthouses at "around 5pm" - when she finally came forward, she said she'd seen nothing (she'd been on holiday and hadn't seen or heard the appeals for her to contact police). She was claimed to have been seen "about 20 yards from Jodi's home," but reports didn't say in which direction. The driver of a car with its bonnet up in front of Newbattle High School was never traced.

So yes, it's entirely possible people didn't come forward because they didn't remember seeing anything that they thought might be significant.

But it does seem odd that, after the man from the reconstruction came forward, the urgency to find the real Stocky Man dissipated very quickly amidst headlines that appeared to suggest he'd been traced and eliminated from the enquiry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3070589.stm
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/police-seek-youth-who-trailed-jodi-1-656152
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 17, 2019, 11:13:AM
its pretty obvios the stocky never came forward becouse if he had he would of been called as a witness.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Bullseye on November 17, 2019, 05:28:PM
It seems strange that he did not come forward when there was an appeal for him. But there could be a number of reasons he didn’t. The fact the police seem to give up looking for him seems clear, it didn’t fit with their theory so they went with the Bryson sighting instead which might have been a huge mistake if Luke is in fact innocent.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 17, 2019, 06:40:PM
It seems strange that he did not come forward when there was an appeal for him. But there could be a number of reasons he didn’t. The fact the police seem to give up looking for him seems clear, it didn’t fit with their theory so they went with the Bryson sighting instead which might have been a huge mistake if Luke is in fact innocent.

Going with the Bryson sighting and all of the manipulation it needed to make it "fit" isn't what most people would expect in an investigation aiming to uncover the truth.

One witness who did not know either of the people she claimed to see (and whose descriptions did not fit the people police were talking about) versus two witnesses who saw the same thing - a male following closely behind a girl matching Jodi's description, one of whom knew Jodi, and they went with the former - it just doesn't make any sense.

The Bryson account went through so many changes - originally, it was almost an hour later than the time finally claimed by police (even though Mrs Bryson herself double checked the time with a phone call she'd received from her husband shortly after she got home), a ridiculously convoluted route from the shopping trip to Easthouses to view the house for sale was introduced to account for different timings and the final account (of a sighting between 4.49 and 4.54) is impossible, even by the police's own reasoning. According to that reasoning, Mrs Bryson would have been arriving at Easthouses at 4.49 - 4.54, not leaving, after getting lost trying to find the house for sale. But her account is that she made the sighting after viewing the house and turning around to head for home- she was absolutely certain of that. But if Jodi was not at the Easthouses entrance to the path by 4.49 - 4.54pm, she could not have been murdered at 5.15pm - there's not enough time for her to get from that point to the V, over the wall and sustain all of the injuries she sustained before the knife attack that killed her.


If Jodi left at 4.50pm, she couldn't have been seen at the entrance to the path at 4.49 (she was still at home). 4.50 (she was just leaving), 4.51 - 4.52:40 (that's how long it would have taken her to walk there), so the earliest time Mrs Bryson could have seen someone who could have been Jodi at the entrance to the path, on the Easthouses Road, is 4.52:40, leaving just a 1 minute and 20 seconds window for her "sighting."

We now also know that time has to be factored in for the joint Jodi smoked within an hour of her death. Her mother is adamant she did not smoke cannabis at home, none of the witnesses saw Jodi (or a girl who could have been Jodi) smoking and her friends say she would not have been walking along outside, openly smoking a joint on her own. So where, when and with whom did she smoke that joint?
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 17, 2019, 08:37:PM
Interesting article, I thought:

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/police-seek-youth-who-trailed-jodi-1-656152
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 17, 2019, 10:12:PM
Interesting article, I thought:

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/police-seek-youth-who-trailed-jodi-1-656152

An article to help you Nugnug - save you from posting mistaken information around the High Five sighting.

This having a smoke, clearly with Luke then, most probably in their favourite hang out place, in the woodland,
where she was murdered. Where their initials where carved into the tree. A place for them, suitable for that fly puff which they appear to have frequented prior to her death.
It really does all fit together.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 18, 2019, 07:19:AM
The initials carved in the tree were not "where she was murdered."

If you've read my post about Luke's alibi, would you like to explain how Jodi was having a smoke with Luke?

There is zero evidence that the place Jodi was murdered is a place they "appear to have frequented" - the only evidence is that they sometimes hung out at the big break at the Easthouses end of the wall.

The only evidence of anyone frequenting the area where Jodi was murdered refers to Ferris and Dickie.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 18, 2019, 03:38:PM
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/The+Beeches,+Dalkeith/Newbattle+Rd,+Dalkeith/@55.8773097,-3.0719779,1043m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887be986ce0383d:0x3f6e9b543d9e3bb!2m2!1d-3.0645335!2d55.8747911!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887bebc2169e0c9:0xd979216a3b180564!2m2!1d-3.0706676!2d55.8798285

When you look at Google Maps - directly across from the marked area of the Beeches, is a narrow stretch of Woodland. Starting
from the white coloured dot of the, THE.
The faded white line we see is Roansdyke Path.
The V break is around where the S is at the end of the word Beeches?
The tree location, that had the initials carved into it is where the woodland becomes slightly thicker, nearing the bend, at the
Easthoues's end?

This is the stretch of woodland that Jodi was murdered in.
This is the same stretch of woodland that both Luke and Jodi hung out in.
Plain and simple.

Look at the distance from Newbattle Road to the Beeches. The time scale of 8mins - we know these timings are somewhat
economical. Transfer this to the length of this path and woodland.
So, an area of woodland, somewhat dense and small - is classed as one and the same.
The tree with the carving and the locus - are both in this same woodland.
There is concrete evidence to show that Luke Mitchel and Jodi did hang out in this wood.
If one wants to believe, that a pair of courting teenagers, would stick to one spot, that is of course each persons right, to do so.
I simply do not believe this.
More so, when you have those first denials, of not being in this woodland before, at all.
Of not knowing of the existence of this V break in this wall.
This is a path that Luke Mitchel definitely frequented.
When walking to his mothers work.
When going to meet with Jodi.
When hanging out with Jodi they used both the path and woodland.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: marty on November 18, 2019, 06:29:PM
Massive distortion of truth though . May as well say they hung out in a wood in dalkeith. Those two marks are hundreds of yards apart. Like being in the away end at a football match. You and the home support are still in the same venue.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: sandra L on November 18, 2019, 07:11:PM
Massive distortion of truth though . May as well say they hung out in a wood in dalkeith. Those two marks are hundreds of yards apart. Like being in the away end at a football match. You and the home support are still in the same venue.

I was just about to make the same point, Marty!

Also, Luke never "denied being in this woodland" - another distortion. He said he had never been "that far down" into the woodland strip which, in itself, supports his claim that he had entered it from the Easthouses end, behind Newbattle High School at the big break in the wall where loads of teenagers hung out to smoke, etc. The very point where Parky points out the woodland "becomes slightly thicker, nearing the bend at the Easthouses end" - interesting choice of words. The woodland strip becomes wider from the wall to the northmost boundary at the Easthouses end, but the vegetation does not become more dense, it becomes less so, hence it being a popular place for the kids to hang out! So, not "thicker" but wider.

Comparisons from google maps might seem compelling on paper, but they can't (and don't) reflect the reality of the actual location.

Why would Parky introduce "the distance from Newbattle Road to the Beeches"? That distance is about the turning circle radius of my car - you turn off the Newbattle Road directly onto the Beeches. Maybe Parky meant the distance from where Newbattle Abbey Crescent meets Newbattle Road to where Newbattle Road turns onto the Beeches? But that's another thing entirely.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: Parky41 on November 19, 2019, 12:01:PM
Quote
Why would Parky introduce "the distance from Newbattle Road to the Beeches"? That distance is about the turning circle radius of my car - you turn off the Newbattle Road directly onto the Beeches. Maybe Parky meant the distance from where Newbattle Abbey Crescent meets Newbattle Road to where Newbattle Road turns onto the Beeches? But that's another thing entirely.

Perhaps if using a phone to access the link one needs to switch to satellite when in Google Maps.
I can see where the confusion may lie, within my description.
The Satellite image gives one (if interested of course) a clearer idea not only of the woodland but of its length and width.
Whilst one may liken this to a football pitch - it is no Nottingham Forrest?
Simply a small stretch of woodland - that Luke and Jodi hung out in together.

Perhaps when Luke was faced with evidence of this carving, he attempted to clarify by stating only then;
that he had not went as far down into this small stretch of somewhat narrow woodland - to the actual locus.
He did attempt at first - to deny being in at all - Thus why the carving was produced as evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: the stocky man seen follwing jodi.
Post by: nugnug on November 26, 2019, 06:46:PM
well this conflicts with Bryson's sighting  brsyn claims she did not know Jodi this witness did know Jodi so who is more likely t have got it right someone who knew Jodi r someone who dident.