Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 07:21:PM

Title: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 07:21:PM
This is something that I believe Scipio first mentioned - at the time, I didn't take too much notice but having thought about it, it's pretty damming!

On 9th August 1985, Taff and Stan Jones called to see Jeremy, in a bid to put Stan's mind at rest Re: Jeremy being involved. Jeremy was asked about the sights and the moderator and was also asked about the bullets left on the counter top. As we know, there were 25 rounds used in the murders, Jeremy said he had grabbed a box of ammo just after spotting the rabbits (the box contained 50 rounds), he loaded 8-10 bullets into the EMPTY magazine clip, all the while RUSHING because he wanted to get the rabbits. All sounds fairly straight forward and with some simply maths you should be able to work out that from a box of 50 bullets with 25 used (none were used to shoot the rabbits), there should be 25 left on the counter. However, there were 30 - where did the 5 extra bullets come from?

There must have been 5 bullets already in the magazine. Jeremy probably didn't think this important initially, however, it's gets complicated when you filter in the rabbit story and his haste to shoot them. If he was in a hurry to shoot the rabbits, why did he need to fill the clip when there was 5 bullets already loaded? After all, he was in a hurry! He also states clearly that the magazine was empty but that no shots were fired at the rabbits. The story doesn't compute - it's a pity we don't have Taff Jones's witness statement because it was he who documented that there were 30 rounds left on the counter - this should have been pursued!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 18, 2019, 07:35:PM
The bullets had evidently been staged by Jeremy on the blue and white chequered worktop. Had they been present before Pamela's telephone call June or Nevill would have cleared them away. If Sheila had opened a new box in the middle of the night as you say there would not have been a surplus of five.

Once again Jeremy is condemned by the words emanating from his own mouth.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on October 18, 2019, 07:59:PM
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 08:02:PM
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.

I can't find it in his interrogation?

However, the argument that Sheila would have looked for more bullets when they were readily available on the counter top is very weak - I think it would have been worth pursuing.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 08:03:PM
The bullets had evidently been staged by Jeremy on the blue and white chequered worktop. Had they been present before Pamela's telephone call June or Nevill would have cleared them away. If Sheila had opened a new box in the middle of the night as you say there would not have been a surplus of five.

Once again Jeremy is condemned by the words emanating from his own mouth.

I fully agree Steve!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on October 18, 2019, 08:38:PM
The ammo packs came in boxes of 50. The boxes that David Boutflour had collected from the cupboard became known as DRB/3. In total there was 245 bullets for DRB/3. Hence one of those ammo boxes had five used up.

There is no magic going on here.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 08:47:PM
The ammo packs came in boxes of 50. The boxes that David Boutflour had collected from the cupboard became known as DRB/3. In total there was 245 bullets for DRB/3. Hence one of those ammo boxes had five used up.

There is no magic going on here.

Obviously they originated from the store of bullets at WHF, but the 5 in question must have been in the magazine - the one Jeremy declared was empty. Jeremy took one pack of 50, he couldn't have taken the one with 5 missing or there would have only been 20 left on the counter.

I know we have had many differences, but I don't think you're stupid so I would find it VERY DIFFICULT to believe that you would buy the argument that Sheila must have taken an extra 5?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 18, 2019, 08:55:PM
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 08:59:PM
Wouldn't it have been more to the point if every bullet, spent or otherwise had been fingerprinted as in a proper investigation ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on October 18, 2019, 08:59:PM
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.

But that rather presupposes that Sheila was thinking clearly and was about to kill in cold blood. I think, in order for Sheila to be guilty, it has to be decided whether she was lucid or, as previously suggested, having a psychotic episode.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 09:01:PM
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.



Hey, that'll do. >:(
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 09:07:PM
Wouldn't it have been more to the point if every bullet, spent or otherwise had been fingerprinted as in a proper investigation ?

That would make no difference to this particular point.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 09:12:PM
That would make no difference to this particular point.




It's still retrospective whichever way you look at it. Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 09:20:PM



It's still retrospective whichever way you look at it. Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

No even sure what point you're making here - anyway .....

Fletcher confirms that there was indeed 30 bullets. Still 5 too many!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on October 18, 2019, 09:34:PM
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.

Blood train?  ???
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 09:58:PM
Weren't there 2 rifles on the go ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 10:10:PM
Weren't there 2 rifles on the go ?

No.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 10:29:PM
No.




I find that hard to believe because of the one which was broken as it's not the one which was on Sheila's body because that doesn't show a break.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 11:25:PM



I find that hard to believe because of the one which was broken as it's not the one which was on Sheila's body because that doesn't show a break.

There was only one and it had a broken stock but you carry on believing as many myths as you like.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on October 19, 2019, 01:23:AM
I can't find it in his interrogation?

However, the argument that Sheila would have looked for more bullets when they were readily available on the counter top is very weak - I think it would have been worth pursuing.

Its in his interrogation somewhere. I don't have time to look right now.

Sheila would have known the bullets were kept in the gun cupboard (she once lived there). Its the place she would have gone to if she did not initially recall or notice the bullets on the kitchen worktop in the first place.

The prosecutions strategy was to convince the jury she cant have done it. To say she could not put her hand in a cupboard where the ammo was usually kept would only make the prosecution look silly.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 04:46:AM
Its in his interrogation somewhere. I don't have time to look right now.

Sheila would have known the bullets were kept in the gun cupboard (she once lived there). Its the place she would have gone to if she did not initially recall or notice the bullets on the kitchen worktop in the first place.

The prosecutions strategy was to convince the jury she cant have done it. To say she could not put her hand in a cupboard where the ammo was usually kept would only make the prosecution look silly.

If you find it please post it, tried to look but eyes started to glaze over.

Re: Sheila taking just 5 bullets, isn't a strong argument and I don't think you really buy that. 25 bullets were used from the counter top, so she is hardly likely to have gone elsewhere.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 11:38:AM
There was only one and it had a broken stock but you carry on believing as many myths as you like.




They're not myths and I'm not blind but the rifle on Sheila looks intact to me.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 11:42:AM
Its in his interrogation somewhere. I don't have time to look right now.

Sheila would have known the bullets were kept in the gun cupboard (she once lived there). Its the place she would have gone to if she did not initially recall or notice the bullets on the kitchen worktop in the first place.

The prosecutions strategy was to convince the jury she cant have done it. To say she could not put her hand in a cupboard where the ammo was usually kept would only make the prosecution look silly.




If handbags were put/kept on the worktop a box of loose bullets wouldn't have been missed. Was it June's handbag which was photographed there beside the box ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on October 19, 2019, 12:08:PM



If handbags were put/kept on the worktop a box of loose bullets wouldn't have been missed. Was it June's handbag which was photographed there beside the box ?

The whole argument is based on an assumption that Sheila would notice the bullets and later remember them being there prior to first having to reload.

The defence narrative is simple. After shooting eight bullets into June and Nevill she then goes to where she knows the ammo is kept and loads five bullets. Realising soon after there is another source of ammunition on the kitchen worktop.

A prosecutions narrative is actually more problematic. Since only five bullets were taken from the cupboard and 20 from the kitchen table. Hence the killer used 20 bullets from the kitchen. Why then would Jeremy take five from the cupboard? He would undoubtedly know about the ones on the kitchen table since he put them there.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 12:32:PM
The whole argument is based on an assumption that Sheila would notice the bullets and later remember them being there prior to first having to reload.

The defence narrative is simple. After shooting eight bullets into June and Nevill she then goes to where she knows the ammo is kept and loads five bullets. Realising soon after there is another source of ammunition on the kitchen worktop.

A prosecutions narrative is actually more problematic. Since only five bullets were taken from the cupboard and 20 from the kitchen table. Hence the killer used 20 bullets from the kitchen. Why then would Jeremy take five from the cupboard? He would undoubtedly know about the ones on the kitchen table since he put them there.




Explained like that it makes no mystery of it at all.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 12:39:PM
---------I must go out and buy the Mirror after I've brushed me hair. JB's made headline news !
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 02:45:PM
---------I must go out and buy the Mirror after I've brushed me hair. JB's made headline news !

Yeah, I know - CT at it again!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 02:46:PM



Explained like that it makes no mystery of it at all.

So you buy the suggestion that with a counter top full of bullets, Sheila goes and takes another 5 from a new pack?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 19, 2019, 03:08:PM



If handbags were put/kept on the worktop a box of loose bullets wouldn't have been missed. Was it June's handbag which was photographed there beside the box ?
I don't think June would have left her handbag there by the phone all night.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 03:09:PM
So you buy the suggestion that with a counter top full of bullets, Sheila goes and takes another 5 from a new pack?  ;D ;D ;D ;D




Well she wasn't in the right frame of mind was she ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 03:10:PM
Yeah, I know - CT at it again!  ;D ;D ;D ;D




God loves a tryer  ;D  Or in this case a team of them.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on October 19, 2019, 03:16:PM



God loves a tryer  ;D  Or in this case a team of them.


They're certainly prepared to take a gamble, but they're in a win/win situation. If they win, it'll look good on their cv's and will have been a good exercise. If they lose it'll have been a good exercise and won't look too shabby on their cv's.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 04:51:PM

They're certainly prepared to take a gamble, but they're in a win/win situation. If they win, it'll look good on their cv's and will have been a good exercise. If they lose it'll have been a good exercise and won't look too shabby on their cv's.

Not if they're shown to be gullible in the end!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on October 19, 2019, 05:02:PM
Not if they're shown to be gullible in the end!


Therapy will help them get over it.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: notsure on October 19, 2019, 05:39:PM
What time did Jeremy say he called police at trial? Was it 3.36?
It is a bit odd that he says he still has the caller jb on the line while relaying the message. Remember this was said at the Dickinson enquiry after the trial wasn’t it so why say it?

I don’t think a silencer was ever used and has been a red herring all along

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 05:41:PM
What time did Jeremy say he called police at trial? Was it 3.36?
It is a bit odd that he says he still has the caller jb on the line while relaying the message. Remember this was said at the Dickinson enquiry after the trial wasn’t it so why say it?

I don’t think a silencer was ever used and has been a red herring all along

He argued against 03:36! He said he called around 03:25
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 06:14:PM
He argued against 03:36! He said he called around 03:25




He may have been trying to call at 03.25 and that's when he was getting an engaged tone because his father was calling the police.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2019, 06:23:PM



He may have been trying to call at 03.25 and that's when he was getting an engaged tone because his father was calling the police.

Eh?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on October 19, 2019, 09:36:PM



He may have been trying to call at 03.25 and that's when he was getting an engaged tone because his father was calling the police.
yes i agree his father was phoning the police through a medium,because he was already dead by this time
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 20, 2019, 01:31:PM
He wasn't.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 20, 2019, 04:27:PM
He wasn't.

Was too!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 20, 2019, 04:58:PM
Was too!





Do you know what ? Because you know so much on the negative aspect of the case, why not drop a line to Mark Newby and tell him he's making the biggest mistake of his life/career in supporting someone who you know murdered the 5 people at WHF ? That way he might take notice of all the things you have to say to save him making a fool of himself. I would if I was in your shoes and felt so strongly about JB's guilt. Or write to the Mail like one of Bellfield's victim's family have done by telling the world to keep him in prison. Again, if it was one of my family members I'd do the same thing.

In the JB case there are probably as many who think like you do as there are that don't, so doubtless whatever was said/written would fall on deaf ears regardless of whose side you were on.

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 20, 2019, 05:04:PM




Do you know what ? Because you know so much on the negative aspect of the case, why not drop a line to Mark Newby and tell him he's making the biggest mistake of his life/career in supporting someone who you know murdered the 5 people at WHF ? That way he might take notice of all the things you have to say to save him making a fool of himself. I would if I was in your shoes and felt so strongly about JB's guilt. Or write to the Mail like one of Bellfield's victim's family have done by telling the world to keep him in prison. Again, if it was one of my family members I'd do the same thing.

In the JB case there are probably as many who think like you do as there are that don't, so doubtless whatever was said/written would fall on deaf ears regardless of whose side you were on.

I think he already knows the claims are empty but any publicity is good to them (I suppose). I post only on this forum, I don't campaign to keep Bamber locked up. He's not going anywhere anyway but I am entitled to an opinion on here as much as you are. You get annoyed when I correct you, if you believe that I'm the one that's wrong, find the statement and prove it!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 20, 2019, 05:08:PM
I think he already knows the claims are empty but any publicity is good to them (I suppose). I post only on this forum, I don't campaign to keep Bamber locked up. He's not going anywhere anyway but I am entitled to an opinion on here as much as you are. You get annoyed when I correc t you, if you believe that I'm the one that's wrong, find the statement and prove it!





 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You're hilarious. You can read minds now ? JB's no less.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 20, 2019, 05:33:PM




 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You're hilarious. You can read minds now ? JB's no less.

Not quite as hilarious as yourself with claims you can't back up or just guffs! However, I wasn't talking about Jeremy, I was talking about his lawyer!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 20, 2019, 05:45:PM
I think he already knows the claims are empty but any publicity is good to them (I suppose). I post only on this forum, I don't campaign to keep Bamber locked up. He's not going anywhere anyway but I am entitled to an opinion on here as much as you are. You get annoyed when I correct you, if you believe that I'm the one that's wrong, find the statement and prove it!




I too am entitled to an opinion but I don't expect a put-down with everything I post. I don't do it to you so why do you feel the need ? Though it's not only been myself who's been put down is it ? It's generally whoever has a different opinion or who disagrees with you .
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 20, 2019, 06:41:PM



I too am entitled to an opinion but I don't expect a put-down with everything I post. I don't do it to you so why do you feel the need ? Though it's not only been myself who's been put down is it ? It's generally whoever has a different opinion or who disagrees with you .

Don't play the victim Lookout! Earlier you stated that West made a statement i which he claimed to have received a call from Nevill. When I pointed out that this wasn't the case and asked you to produce the statement, you brushed  it off and then (as usual), you changed the subject.

I have gotten quite a few things wrong on here but I will hold my hands up when I do, you NEVER do! I don't care if people disagree with me and if can back things up, that's great. Don't try and used the old 'them and us' rhetoric!  ::)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 20, 2019, 07:19:PM
Don't play the victim Lookout! Earlier you stated that West made a statement i which he claimed to have received a call from Nevill. When I pointed out that this wasn't the case and asked you to produce the statement, you brushed  it off and then (as usual), you changed the subject.

I have gotten quite a few things wrong on here but I will hold my hands up when I do, you NEVER do! I don't care if people disagree with me and if can back things up, that's great. Don't try and used the old 'them and us' rhetoric!  ::)




I don't play the victim unlike some------------and neither do I react when defending my own opinion unlike some------------. Like yourself though, I won't find common ground nor a mutuality that goes with a discussion because I for one won't back down.

There are many things with this case that don't require " back-ups " , just common sense and I refuse to " go by the book " if I think it's wrong just because everyone else is going with the flow. I do and say things that I think is/are right and not what everyone else thinks or says. I'll only agree when and where I think it's necessary and not because everyone else does. It's my mind and I'll use it how I think fit.

Reading West's statements and Trial transcript on here in the archives, I can work out what West did and I'm pleased that I can understand what it was that he did so I explained in a post my thoughts on the subject but because it didn't tally with what you read as read I get a chorus of " no backups ".
There was never any backup with the wallet debacle or the last empty container after harvest but you still went ahead and argued the toss.

There's no need for the constant challenging. This is based on people thoughts it's not a bloody court-room.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 21, 2019, 12:10:AM



I don't play the victim unlike some------------and neither do I react when defending my own opinion unlike some------------. Like yourself though, I won't find common ground nor a mutuality that goes with a discussion because I for one won't back down.

There are many things with this case that don't require " back-ups " , just common sense and I refuse to " go by the book " if I think it's wrong just because everyone else is going with the flow. I do and say things that I think is/are right and not what everyone else thinks or says. I'll only agree when and where I think it's necessary and not because everyone else does. It's my mind and I'll use it how I think fit.

Reading West's statements and Trial transcript on here in the archives, I can work out what West did and I'm pleased that I can understand what it was that he did so I explained in a post my thoughts on the subject but because it didn't tally with what you read as read I get a chorus of " no backups ".
There was never any backup with the wallet debacle or the last empty container after harvest but you still went ahead and argued the toss.

There's no need for the constant challenging. This is based on people thoughts it's not a bloody court-room.

No Lookout, when you make a claim , either back it up or don't make it. West never said he received a call from Nevill - and that is a FACT!

Never a back up with the wallet? Errr, when he answered the question, I posted what he said! By the way, what have you asked him or are you yet to actually write your first letter?  ::)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on October 21, 2019, 01:04:PM
No Lookout, when you make a claim , either back it up or don't make it. West never said he received a call from Nevill - and that is a FACT!

Never a back up with the wallet? Errr, when he answered the question, I posted what he said! By the way, what have you asked him or are you yet to actually write your first letter?  ::)





I've written quite a few letters and sent B/Day and Christmas cards as well. He'll be getting another letter, stamps included, showing my support for keeping his case going and reminding the world that he remains an innocent victim in all this. Positive vibes from me, no need to ask him questions, what for when he's done nothing ?
In my very first letter years ago I told him that I wasn't going to remind him what had happened but I did tell him from the start that I'd known in 1985 that it wasn't he who had committed the crime. My letters just consist of light-hearted news. I've avoided saying how disgusted I am with the justice system.   
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on October 21, 2019, 07:22:PM




I've written quite a few letters and sent B/Day and Christmas cards as well. He'll be getting another letter, stamps included, showing my support for keeping his case going and reminding the world that he remains an innocent victim in all this. Positive vibes from me, no need to ask him questions, what for when he's done nothing ?
In my very first letter years ago I told him that I wasn't going to remind him what had happened but I did tell him from the start that I'd known in 1985 that it wasn't he who had committed the crime. My letters just consist of light-hearted news. I've avoided saying how disgusted I am with the justice system.
never mind the justice system,i think you should be disgusted with jb for not admitting his guilt as he will never be freed without this.disgusting how he keeps putting the extended family through this.imo
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 07:45:PM
never mind the justice system,i think you should be disgusted with jb for not admitting his guilt as he will never be freed without this.disgusting how he keeps putting the extended family through this.imo

He's not putting them through anything. Most of them did very well out of it anyway.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 21, 2019, 07:50:PM
He's not putting them through anything. Most of them did very well out of it anyway.
I thought some were working pro bono now the money's dried up..
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 07:51:PM
I thought some were working pro bono now the money's dried up..

Has it? What happened to the caravan park place?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 21, 2019, 07:57:PM
Has it? What happened to the caravan park place?
Jeremy sold those shares years ago to pay legal bills.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 21, 2019, 07:59:PM
Has it? What happened to the caravan park place?

The family own the caravan park - made a good job of it too!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 08:00:PM
Jeremy sold those shares years ago to pay legal bills.

I thought you meant the family were working pro bono.  :P

Jeremy has nothing, but other family members did OK out of it.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on October 21, 2019, 08:01:PM
I thought you meant the family were working pro bono.  :P

Jeremy has nothing, but other family members did OK out of it.
Apart from Colin.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 08:02:PM
I wish the money had gone to charity so that nobody benefited financially from those five deaths.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 08:03:PM
Apart from Colin.

Indeed. He was only the father of the murdered children, so nobody thought about him.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 21, 2019, 08:06:PM
Indeed. He was only the father of the murdered children, so nobody thought about him.

He seems to get little consideration now - the only REAL living victim IMO!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 08:10:PM
He seems to get little consideration now - the only REAL living victim IMO!

He's better off that way IMO. There's no need for him to make statements and get outraged like the others do.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on October 21, 2019, 08:20:PM
He's better off that way IMO. There's no need for him to make statements and get outraged like the others do.

I don't think the 'others' get involved now either.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on October 21, 2019, 08:22:PM
I don't think the 'others' get involved now either.

I hope not. It's really not their business.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 03:27:PM
So, the five extra bullets? Where did they come from? Anyone?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on November 20, 2019, 04:31:PM
Already explained

 http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10021.msg457258.html#msg457258 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10021.msg457258.html#msg457258)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 05:07:PM
Already explained

 http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10021.msg457258.html#msg457258 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10021.msg457258.html#msg457258)

That isn't an explanation and it's your opinion which have you already given - it's not the definitive choice and makes no sense anyway. Bamber stated that she was there when he loaded the magazine and could hardly fail to miss the shells. It's also doesn't explain why she would only take 5.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 05:09:PM
Apart from the notion that Sheila would make a specilal trip to the gun cupboard and take only 5 bullets, then discover those in the kitchen, does anyone have a 'plausible' explanation about where the extra 5 bullets came from?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 20, 2019, 05:38:PM
Only Sheila would have known that. She'd have loaded the bullets one at a time anyway and would have lost count.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 20, 2019, 06:07:PM
Only Sheila would have known that. She'd have loaded the bullets one at a time anyway and would have lost count.


Your knowledge of the numerous personalities you attribute to her never ceases to amaze me. ;)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 20, 2019, 07:00:PM

Your knowledge of the numerous personalities you attribute to her never ceases to amaze me. ;)




I never cease to amaze myself at times  :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 20, 2019, 07:07:PM



I never cease to amaze myself at times  :)) :)) :)) :))



Long may it last ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 20, 2019, 07:15:PM


Long may it last ;D ;D ;D ;D




Thankyou, I hope so too  ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 07:42:PM
Only Sheila would have known that. She'd have loaded the bullets one at a time anyway and would have lost count.

How could she lose count - it's 5 not 305? anyway .....

How does Sheila going to the cupboard for ammo pan out? Jeremy said he loaded between 8 and 10 bullets, so that would be all she had to start with. To reload (given that she had no idea that there was a box open on the counter top), she would have to go to the cupboard in the study to get the '5' bullets. If we take it that there were 10 in magazine to start with, how did she manage to kill the twins and disable June and Nevill and get to the cupboard in the study, find and reload the 5 shots? There were 9 shots in the twins room alone, 13 in  the main bedroom, 1 on the stairs and 3 in the kitchen. No shots could have been fired prior to Nevill's supposed call so ....... 10 bullets and time to look for more in the  cupboard/study?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: ilovebooze on November 20, 2019, 09:31:PM
How was images of Shelia with fresh blood captured hours after she was supposed to have died??
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 09:33:PM
How was images of Shelia with fresh blood captured hours after she was supposed to have died??

They weren't - the picture you're on about is enhanced.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 09:34:PM
This thread is about the five extra bullets on the counter top and where they came from.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: ilovebooze on November 20, 2019, 09:37:PM
They weren't - the picture you're on about is enhanced.
by whom ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2019, 09:54:PM
by whom ?

His dodgy Italian fake lawyer.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on November 21, 2019, 05:55:PM
How was images of Shelia with fresh blood captured hours after she was supposed to have died??
There was also dried, cracked blood on her face.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 21, 2019, 06:11:PM
There was also dried, cracked blood on her face.





There would be where the running blood was at its thinnest, plus it would have dried within an hour or thereabout.   
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 21, 2019, 07:31:PM




There would be where the running blood was at its thinnest, plus it would have dried within an hour or thereabout.

The running blood photo is a fake, I can't believe people are still falling for it  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 21, 2019, 07:48:PM
The whole argument is based on an assumption that Sheila would notice the bullets and later remember them being there prior to first having to reload.

The defence narrative is simple. After shooting eight bullets into June and Nevill she then goes to where she knows the ammo is kept and loads five bullets. Realising soon after there is another source of ammunition on the kitchen worktop.

A prosecutions narrative is actually more problematic. Since only five bullets were taken from the cupboard and 20 from the kitchen table. Hence the killer used 20 bullets from the kitchen. Why then would Jeremy take five from the cupboard? He would undoubtedly know about the ones on the kitchen table since he put them there.

According to DB the shells were at the back of the cupboard in a carrier bag, 5 full boxes and one half full. According to your scenario, Sheila first of all must have known where the shells were kept, opened the carrier bag and took ONLY five shells. She must have taken them from the open pack and placed the pack back in the carrier - then off she went on the rampage again (have a break moment?). An altogether unlikely scenario the say the least!

What makes more sense (and isn't problematic at all - far from it). When Jeremy loaded the rifle, the magazine clearly already had 5 bullets loaded! He simply filled it with the rest from the new pack. He didn't mention that there were already bullets loaded because police would likely have asked why he them took time to load more, given that he was 'in a hurry' to shoot the rabbits, he couldn't say that he shot the rabbits either because, where are they? If they escaped - where are the spent bullets and casings.

He made a bit of a boob and one the police SHOULD have pursued.





Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: ilovebooze on November 21, 2019, 08:37:PM
His dodgy Italian fake lawyer.
di Stefano?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 21, 2019, 08:38:PM
The running blood photo is a fake, I can't believe people are still falling for it  ;D ;D ;D ;D





It can't run if it's dried and cracked  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 21, 2019, 08:41:PM
Who said there were 30 bullets on the kitchen top?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 21, 2019, 09:23:PM
Who said there were 30 bullets on the kitchen top?




He said, she said. ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 21, 2019, 10:29:PM
Who said there were 30 bullets on the kitchen top?

Not just said - evidenced!

Hammersely (see below) found 29 loose bullets next to the cartridge box and one inside the box (picture below). These were submitted into evidence as DRH 22 (the 29 shells) and DRH 23 (the box and the single shell. That's 30 shells - not 25 as there should have been. Fletcher test fired these shells and also makes reference to there be 30 (see below).

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4081)

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 21, 2019, 10:43:PM



He said, she said. ;D

Sorry to disappoint Lookout - 30 bullets were on the counter top. Jeremy said he got a new box of 50, 25 were used - where did the extra five come from?  ;)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 10:30:AM
Sorry to disappoint Lookout - 30 bullets were on the counter top. Jeremy said he got a new box of 50, 25 were used - where did the extra five come from?  ;)




Maybe he couldn't count ? He wouldn't have realised the ( now ) importance of it back then would he ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 01:08:PM



Maybe he couldn't count ? He wouldn't have realised the ( now ) importance of it back then would he ?

Couldn't count? That's the BEST excuse yet! You don't have an answer do you? That's OK though, because there is only one answer - the rifle was already loaded with 5 bullets and he had no intention of shooting rabbits and no, you're right, he didn't realise the importance!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 02:40:PM
Couldn't count? That's the BEST excuse yet! You don't have an answer do you? That's OK though, because there is only one answer - the rifle was already loaded with 5 bullets and he had no intention of shooting rabbits and no, you're right, he didn't realise the importance!




Well I suppose it makes a change from saying that I've " got an answer for everything ?"

5 Bullets ? It didn't work did it ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 02:43:PM
It would have been more to the point if they'd been fingerprinted would it not ? Along with the fingerprints on the Bible and other things, then maybe this forum wouldn't exist.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 22, 2019, 02:57:PM
It would have been more to the point if they'd been fingerprinted would it not ? Along with the fingerprints on the Bible and other things, then maybe this forum wouldn't exist.



It probably wouldn't. My guess is that Jeremy's fingers would have been all over everything. Once the murder/suicide with Sheila responsible theory was accepted -and held- what would have been the necessity of taking fingerprints?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 03:43:PM


It probably wouldn't. My guess is that Jeremy's fingers would have been all over everything. Once the murder/suicide with Sheila responsible theory was accepted -and held- what would have been the necessity of taking fingerprints?




There'd have been every necessity to have taken prints of 5 loose bullets as he usually fed bullets to capacity and not one at a time.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 03:50:PM
It would have been more to the point if they'd been fingerprinted would it not ? Along with the fingerprints on the Bible and other things, then maybe this forum wouldn't exist.

That isn't the point Lookout, the point is that Jeremy couldn't have brought the gun out to shoot rabbits. Five extra can only mean there were 5 in the magazine, if he was in a hurry to shoot them, he wouldn't have needed to fill the rifle. There is no excuse or the extra five bullets.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 03:51:PM



There'd have been every necessity to have taken prints of 5 loose bullets as he usually fed bullets to capacity and not one at a time.

What do you mean '5 loose bullets'? There was 30 loose bullets but should have only been 25!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 04:51:PM
What do you mean '5 loose bullets'? There was 30 loose bullets but should have only been 25!




Well where were the 5 ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 05:16:PM



Well where were the 5 ?

What?  ;D

OK, there are 50 shells in a pack, Jeremy opened a new box and tipped them onto the counter top. He said the magazine was empty (or he wouldn't have needed the new pack as he was in a hurry to shoot rabbits). 25 were used in the killings, so that should leave 25, BUT there were 30 shells found on the counter top not 25. The rifle MUST have had 5 shells already loaded and that's where the extra 5 come from. The story about being in a hurry to shoot rabbits is therefore BS!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on November 22, 2019, 05:55:PM
It's just another detail the Bamberettes will brush off..
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 05:57:PM
What?  ;D

OK, there are 50 shells in a pack, Jeremy opened a new box and tipped them onto the counter top. He said the magazine was empty (or he wouldn't have needed the new pack as he was in a hurry to shoot rabbits). 25 were used in the killings, so that should leave 25, BUT there were 30 shells found on the counter top not 25. The rifle MUST have had 5 shells already loaded and that's where the extra 5 come from. The story about being in a hurry to shoot rabbits is therefore BS!





Who said he was in any hurry to shoot rabbits ? Not me.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 22, 2019, 06:07:PM




Who said he was in any hurry to shoot rabbits ? Not me.



Didn't he say he was? Rabbits tend not to wait...................as proved to be the case.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 06:22:PM


Didn't he say he was? Rabbits tend not to wait...................as proved to be the case.





Oh, not the he said she said again---------------
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 06:23:PM
I only remember him saying that " he heard rabbits ".
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 06:37:PM
It's just another detail the Bamberettes will brush off..

Oh no they won't! If they try to, it means they really don't care if he's guilty!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 06:38:PM




Who said he was in any hurry to shoot rabbits ? Not me.

HE DID!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 22, 2019, 06:41:PM




Oh, not the he said she said again---------------



Lookout, it's in his WS. Something like he didn't hang around because he was in a hurry to shoot rabbits?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 22, 2019, 06:42:PM
I only remember him saying that " he heard rabbits ".



I've never seen rabbits in clogs ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 06:50:PM
I only remember him saying that " he heard rabbits ".

What do rabbits 'sound' like Lookout? I live in the countryside with rabbits everywhere - they don't make a sound. However, let me refresh your memory! Take special note of 'empty magazine', 'in a rush' and 'no shots fired'.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 06:52:PM


I've never seen rabbits in clogs ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmArFFfg92o  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 22, 2019, 07:13:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmArFFfg92o  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



So THAT'S why he didn't shoot them ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 07:16:PM


So THAT'S why he didn't shoot them ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And we're still 5 bullets too many!  ;)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 07:31:PM
There may well have been five bullets already in the magazine. What does that mean though? That Jeremy loaded it with five bullets earlier on? That the five bullets were there from the last time he used the gun?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on November 22, 2019, 07:35:PM
There may well have been five bullets already in the magazine. What does that mean though? That Jeremy loaded it with five bullets earlier on? That the five bullets were there from the last time he used the gun?
It means if you are being charitable that he decided to fill the magazine first rather than go out and shoot the rabbits with five bullets which were already there for him to use.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 07:36:PM
So I'm not the only one who can read minds  ::)
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 07:40:PM
There may well have been five bullets already in the magazine. What does that mean though? That Jeremy loaded it with five bullets earlier on? That the five bullets were there from the last time he used the gun?

1. He said the mag was empty
2. He said he filled it with 8 - 10 rounds
3. He said he was acting quickly because he was in a RUSH

The bullets MUST have been in the rifle but he CAN’T admit that because it doesn’t go with his story!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 07:41:PM
Wasn't there some stuff about some of the bullets being loaded twice?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 07:47:PM
Wasn't there some stuff about some of the bullets being loaded twice?

Yes and guess how many?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 07:48:PM
Yes and guess how many?

I see that Mr Fletcher said one. Why would someone load a bullet twice?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 07:52:PM
Ah, there were four others which had been fired which had been loaded twice. That makes five.

It sounds to me like there were five bullets in the magazine, and they were emptied out, and then the magazine was loaded again.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 07:58:PM
Ah, there were four others which had been fired which had been loaded twice. That makes five.

It sounds to me like there were five bullets in the magazine, and they were emptied out, and then the magazine was loaded again.

Those extra five could have been taken out on a different occasion but they were certainly back in the murders.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 08:00:PM
Those extra five could have been taken out on a different occasion but they were certainly back in the murders.

So where had the bullets been previously?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 08:01:PM
So where had the bullets been previously?

From the study I imagine, with the rifle.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 08:03:PM
From the study I imagine, with the rifle.

Just loose in the study? Someone took them out and put them somewhere, and then on the night of the shootings they mysteriously found their way into the magazine again.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 09:02:PM
Just loose in the study? Someone took them out and put them somewhere, and then on the night of the shootings they mysteriously found their way into the magazine again.

Hardly! That's where the gun cupboard was, the ammo was kept in a carrier bag IN the gun cupboard but the magazine obviously had bullets still in it from the last time it was used. Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 09:05:PM
Hardly! That's where the gun cupboard was, the ammo was kept in a carrier bag IN the gun cupboard but the magazine obviously had bullets still in it from the last time it was used. Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.

So you now think the five bullets were still in the magazine? Why would Jeremy empty them out onto the kitchen surface?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 09:24:PM
Those 5 bullets have done their rounds haven't they ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 09:43:PM
So you now think the five bullets were still in the magazine? Why would Jeremy empty them out onto the kitchen surface?

He didn't empty them out, nor did I say he did, they weren't found on the kitchen surface. He used them in the murders.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 09:50:PM
He didn't empty them out, nor did I say he did, they weren't found on the kitchen surface. He used them in the murders.

But five of the bullets had been loaded into the magazine twice, so they must have been removed and reloaded. One of the bullets which wasn't used was found in the kitchen - DRH/23. That had been loaded into the magazine before but wasn't used in the murders.



Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:11:PM
But five of the bullets had been loaded into the magazine twice, so they must have been removed and reloaded. One of the bullets which wasn't used was found in the kitchen - DRH/23. That had been loaded into the magazine before but wasn't used in the murders.

So they were took out and reloaded for whatever reason. The FACT is they were there 30 shells left when there should have been 25. I can speculate as to why they were reloaded until the cows come home, but it is irrelevant to the point.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:15:PM
So they were took out and reloaded for whatever reason. The FACT is they were there 30 shells left when there should have been 25. I can speculate as to why they were reloaded until the cows come home, but it is irrelevant to the point.

For what reason? If one of them was on the kitchen surface, they were probably all on the kitchen surface to begin with, and four of them were used in the shooting.

It's not irrelevant. You want to know where there were five extra bullets, and here we have five bullets which were in the magazine, and then removed from the magazine. You don't think there's a connection?

Is it not likely that the bullets were removed from the magazine from the last time it was used? Where would someone put those five bullets?


Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:23:PM
For what reason? If one of them was on the kitchen surface, they were probably all on the kitchen surface to begin with, and four of them were used in the shooting.

It's not irrelevant. You want to know where there were five extra bullets, and here we have five bullets which were in the magazine, and then removed from the magazine. You don't think there's a connection?

Is it not likely that the bullets were removed from the magazine from the last time it was used? Where would someone put those five bullets?

They could have been removed and replaced before the murders, however, the most likely reason is that Bamber ejected them onto the counter to see how many were in the clip, as such, they got mixed with the others on the counter top and replaced randomly.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:32:PM
They could have been removed and replaced before the murders, however, the most likely reason is that Bamber ejected them onto the counter to see how many were in the clip, as such, they got mixed with the others on the counter top and replaced randomly.

If he couldn't see how many bullets were in the magazine, he may well have done that - in order to have enough to shoot the rabbits.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:37:PM
If he couldn't see how many bullets were in the magazine, he may well have done that - in order to have enough to shoot the rabbits.

That doesn't make sense? He said he was in a hurry and as long as there were some bullets in the rifle it would have been enough for the rabbits. He also neglected to mention that in his statement - which I have posted. It seems to you are looking for excuses to bury or dismiss and important fact?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:42:PM
That doesn't make sense? He said he was in a hurry and as long as there were some bullets in the rifle it would have been enough for the rabbits. He also neglected to mention that in his statement - which I have posted. It seems to you are looking for excuses to bury or dismiss and important fact?

Then why would he need to empty the magazine in order to fill it again? He could just fill it with as many bullets which would go in.

It seems to me that you're ignoring this issue of five bullets being removed from the magazine.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:44:PM
Did someone say the box of bullets was in a bag? Is it possible that Jeremy brought the bag in and tipped it up on the kithen surface? Is it possible there were five bullets in the bag from the last time the magazine was emptied?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:49:PM
Then why would he need to empty the magazine in order to fill it again? He could just fill it with as many bullets which would go in.

It seems to me that you're ignoring this issue of five bullets being removed from the magazine.

No, I'm not ignoring it, I have answered each and every one of your questions. But you are asking me to explain to you why someone else would do something or how something happened. Yes, I can give you answers but because there is no definitive reason - you will simply keep asking the same question. I have asked you why there are five extra bullets and have shown you that the notion of him using the weapon to shoot rabbits is bull and given you reasons why from his own words - that's the main issue! However, the reloaded bullets could even be from misfires - they are certainly NOT from an attempt to hurry and shoot rabbits!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 22, 2019, 10:54:PM
Nobody " hurries " when shooting rabbits, or they'd scarper or else be gone while you're thinking about it. He was just playing for time until the arguing stopped seeing as he was ready to go home.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:54:PM
Did someone say the box of bullets was in a bag? Is it possible that Jeremy brought the bag in and tipped it up on the kithen surface? Is it possible there were five bullets in the bag from the last time the magazine was emptied?

Where in his statement does he mention that he brought the carrier full of ammo into the kitchen? He states clearly what he did! I have already posted these previously!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:55:PM
Nobody " hurries " when shooting rabbits, or they'd scarper or else be gone while you're thinking about it. He was just playing for time until the arguing stopped seeing as he was ready to go home.

So we're not just ignoring the statements and making up shit as we go along? READ his statements!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:55:PM
I've given suggestions for why there were five extra bullets...

I'm simply trying to understand why Jeremy would take them out of the magazine and put them on the kitchen surface with the new bullets.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:57:PM
So we're not just ignoring the statements and making up shit as we go along? READ his statements!

I've read them, but it's all a bit vague - don't you think?

Where do you reckon Nevill would put bullets which they had removed from the magazine? Back in the original box? Neither of them were very organised were they?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:57:PM
I've given suggestions for why there were five extra bullets...

I'm simply trying to understand why Jeremy would take them out of the magazine and put them on the kitchen surface with the new bullets.

Like I just said, the reloaded bullets may have been misfires.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 10:58:PM
Like I just said, the reloaded bullets may have been misfires.

What do you mean by that?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:59:PM
I've read them, but it's all a bit vague - don't you think?

Where do you reckon Nevill would put bullets which they had removed from the magazine? Back in the original box? Neither of them were very organised were they?

They aren't vague at all.

The bullets weren't in the original box.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 10:59:PM
What do you mean by that?

Seriously - are you just taking the piss?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 11:01:PM
They aren't vague at all.

The bullets weren't in the original box.

Which bullets?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 11:02:PM
Seriously - are you just taking the piss?

No I'm not. Could you explain what you mean?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 22, 2019, 11:04:PM
So what is the suggestion here? Is it that Jeremy didn't empty out a box of bullets onto the kitchen surface before he left that evening, and the gun wasn't in the "back kitchen", it was in the gun cupboard? Then when he returned he had to go and get the gun and the bullets out of the cupboard?. The magazine happened to have five bullets already in it, and he emptied out the new box of bullets onto the kitchen surface? That would have been a bit noisy wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 11:14:PM
So what is the suggestion here? Is it that Jeremy didn't empty out a box of bullets onto the kitchen surface before he left that evening, and the gun wasn't in the "back kitchen", it was in the gun cupboard? Then when he returned he had to go and get the gun and the bullets out of the cupboard?. The magazine happened to have five bullets already in it, and he emptied out the new box of bullets onto the kitchen surface? That would have been a bit noisy wouldn't it?

Actually, I didn't say any of that. But given that you seem to think Bamber is innocent, how did Sheila manage to leave five extra bullets on the counter?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 22, 2019, 11:22:PM
This may be why the bullets were removed

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/

Inspection Considerations: What To Look For
You should inspect your ammunition occasionally. When I pull the rounds out of my gun, I am looking for some specific indicators that it should be replaced. First, I’m going to look at the bullet itself. Some discoloration from handling is normal, but alterations in the shape of the bullet are not. Did it get slammed into the feed ramp and is now misshapen as a result? This is probably a good indicator that the whole cartridge has suffered some abuse, and the change in shape may impact the bullet’s performance. If the bullet is deformed, replace those rounds.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 12:21:AM
This may be why the bullets were removed and reloaded

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/

Inspection Considerations: What To Look For
You should inspect your ammunition occasionally. When I pull the rounds out of my gun, I am looking for some specific indicators that it should be replaced. First, I’m going to look at the bullet itself. Some discoloration from handling is normal, but alterations in the shape of the bullet are not. Did it get slammed into the feed ramp and is now misshapen as a result? This is probably a good indicator that the whole cartridge has suffered some abuse, and the change in shape may impact the bullet’s performance. If the bullet is deformed, replace those rounds.

But he must have done because there were 6 not 5. One was still on the counter top, the others were fired from the rifle.

Here is Jones's account of Jeremy being asked about it.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 06:55:AM
According to Mr Fletcher, there were four bullets which had been loaded twice and which had been fired, and one which was still on the kitchen surface.

If these five bullets were still in the magazine prior to the murders, Jeremy or Sheila must have removed them from the magazine and put them with the new bullets. I'm curious as to why.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 02:03:PM
According to Mr Fletcher, there were four bullets which had been loaded twice and which had been fired, and one which was still on the kitchen surface.

If these five bullets were still in the magazine prior to the murders, Jeremy or Sheila must have removed them from the magazine and put them with the new bullets. I'm curious as to why.

Actually, according to Fletcher, there were 6 not 4.

I see you have added Sheila into the mix, however, it was Jeremy who said the magazine was empty - where and why would Sheila get five bullets from?

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: ilovebooze on November 23, 2019, 02:12:PM
This is something that I believe Scipio first mentioned - at the time, I didn't take too much notice but having thought about it, it's pretty damming!

On 9th August 1985, Taff and Stan Jones called to see Jeremy, in a bid to put Stan's mind at rest Re: Jeremy being involved. Jeremy was asked about the sights and the moderator and was also asked about the bullets left on the counter top. As we know, there were 25 rounds used in the murders, Jeremy said he had grabbed a box of ammo just after spotting the rabbits (the box contained 50 rounds), he loaded 8-10 bullets into the EMPTY magazine clip, all the while RUSHING because he wanted to get the rabbits. All sounds fairly straight forward and with some simply maths you should be able to work out that from a box of 50 bullets with 25 used (none were used to shoot the rabbits), there should be 25 left on the counter. However, there were 30 - where did the 5 extra bullets come from?

There must have been 5 bullets already in the magazine. Jeremy probably didn't think this important initially, however, it's gets complicated when you filter in the rabbit story and his haste to shoot them. If he was in a hurry to shoot the rabbits, why did he need to fill the clip when there was 5 bullets already loaded? After all, he was in a hurry! He also states clearly that the magazine was empty but that no shots were fired at the rabbits. The story doesn't compute - it's a pity we don't have Taff Jones's witness statement because it was he who documented that there were 30 rounds left on the counter - this should have been pursued!
complete cherry picking...
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 02:15:PM
Actually, according to Fletcher, there were 6 not 4.

I see you have added Sheila into the mix, however, it was Jeremy who said the magazine was empty - where and why would Sheila get five bullets from?

I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440

Jeremy said he thought it was empty, according to Stan Jones. Perhaps it wasn't. However, that doesn't explain why the bullets were removed from the magazine prior to loading it. That applies to Sheila as well.

The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: David1819 on November 23, 2019, 03:53:PM
The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

She goes to the cupboard to collected five bullets as that was where they were kept. Only noticing or recalling there being another source of ammo on kitchen worktop later on.  No mystery.

As for several bullets being loaded twice into the magazine. This is determined by the impressions left on the bullet when they are pressed down on the lips of the magazine. I believe it could be possible that one could press down with enough force to create the lip impressions but not enough force to get the bullet past the lip marks into the magazine. Hence it could just be a case of someone having difficulty loading as the force needed gets greater the more you load. But this is just a theory at present.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 23, 2019, 04:34:PM
If the magazine was already loaded it would have had to have taken someone with no knowledge of loading to attempt a few more bullets, but it would have meant breaking all of Sheila's nails in the process.
Jeremy would have had no need to mess around with loose bullets as he'd have got the full quota with knowing about the workings etc of the rifle.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 05:18:PM
She goes to the cupboard to collected five bullets as that was where they were kept. Only noticing or recalling there being another source of ammo on kitchen worktop later on.  No mystery.

As for several bullets being loaded twice into the magazine. This is determined by the impressions left on the bullet when they are pressed down on the lips of the magazine. I believe it could be possible that one could press down with enough force to create the lip impressions but not enough force to get the bullet past the lip marks into the magazine. Hence it could just be a case of someone having difficulty loading as the force needed gets greater the more you load. But this is just a theory at present.

That's a possible scenario - five bullets for five people.

I'm not sure how a magazine is loaded - I'll see if I can find a video or something. In any case, in that scenario, at least one bullet which was not successfully loaded was removed and not loaded again.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:24:PM
complete cherry picking...

Says the king of the cherries!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:30:PM
That's a possible scenario - five bullets for five people.

I'm not sure how a magazine is loaded - I'll see if I can find a video or something. In any case, in that scenario, at least one bullet which was not successfully loaded was removed and not loaded again.

This must be a joke! Something clearly went wrong with that plan! Sheila didn't load any bullets, Bamber brought the bullets, Bamber and the magazine which was already partially loaded - he removed the bullets (for whatever reason) and reloaded. Trying to fit Sheila into THIS mix is cloud cuckoo land!

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:32:PM
I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440

Jeremy said he thought it was empty, according to Stan Jones. Perhaps it wasn't. However, that doesn't explain why the bullets were removed from the magazine prior to loading it. That applies to Sheila as well.

The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

No and it doesn't explain why he needed to load bullets in a partially loaded rifle when by HIS OWN WORDS, he was in a RUSH to shoot the rabbits!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:38:PM
I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440



No, he said there were six! One full bullet left on the counter and 5 used cases. Bamber not Sheila has to have unloaded and reloaded because one of the bullets had to have come from the new pack! Also, Bamber gave his statement very soon after the murders and you're trying to say he didn't remember that the magazine was partially loaded? Please!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:40:PM
If the magazine was already loaded it would have had to have taken someone with no knowledge of loading to attempt a few more bullets, but it would have meant breaking all of Sheila's nails in the process.
Jeremy would have had no need to mess around with loose bullets as he'd have got the full quota with knowing about the workings etc of the rifle.

It wasn't loaded, it was partially loaded, enough to shoot some rabbits, not enough to kill the family!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 05:43:PM
This must be a joke! Something clearly went wrong with that plan! Sheila didn't load any bullets, Bamber brought the bullets, Bamber and the magazine which was already partially loaded - he removed the bullets (for whatever reason) and reloaded. Trying to fit Sheila into THIS mix is cloud cuckoo land!

I'm looking at the possibility of either of them doing it.

For what reason did he unload the bullets? Can you think of a valid reason he did that?

You think he brought the bullets with him, but not the magazine? Why would he need to bring his own bullets?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 05:54:PM
No, he said there were six! One full bullet left on the counter and 5 used cases. Bamber not Sheila has to have unloaded and reloaded because one of the bullets had to have come from the new pack! Also, Bamber gave his statement very soon after the murders and you're trying to say he didn't remember that the magazine was partially loaded? Please!

No problem. The box of bullets which Jeremy took had 49 bullets in it.

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 05:58:PM
I'm looking at the possibility of either of them doing it.

For what reason did he unload the bullets? Can you think of a valid reason he did that?

You think he brought the bullets with him, but not the magazine? Why would he need to bring his own bullets?

It really looks as though you're actually looking for an excuse for Bamber NOT to have done it. I have given several possibilities of why he may have unloaded the clip. However, to keep giving reasons why someone acted the way  they did is just to speculate. The FACTS are that Jeremy said the Magazine was empty, he took it, the rifle and a box of ammo from the study, tipped the ammo onto the counter top and loaded 8-10 rounds. 25 bullets were used in the killings, which should have left 25, there were 30 so clearly the magazine was partially loaded. He either loaded and reloaded or the box of ammo contained bullets that had previously been loaded and replaced on the box. Who knows - we never will, that's for sure.

I'm really not sure where you got the impression that I believe he brought his own bullets? - It never even crossed my mind.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 06:00:PM
No problem. The box of bullets which Jeremy took had 49 bullets in it.

Where did you get that from?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 06:03:PM
It really looks as though you're actually looking for an excuse for Bamber NOT to have done it. I have given several possibilities of why he may have unloaded the clip. However, to keep giving reasons why someone acted the way  they did is just to speculate. The FACTS are that Jeremy said the Magazine was empty, he took it, the rifle and a box of ammo from the study, tipped the ammo onto the counter top and loaded 8-10 rounds. 25 bullets were used in the killings, which should have left 25, there were 30 so clearly the magazine was partially loaded. He either loaded and reloaded or the box of ammo contained bullets that had previously been loaded and replaced on the box. Who knows - we never will, that's for sure.

I'm really not sure where you got the impression that I believe he brought his own bullets? - It never even crossed my mind.

I can't think of a reason why Jeremy would take those six bullets out of the magazine, and neither can you.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 06:13:PM
I can't think of a reason why Jeremy would take those six bullets out of the magazine, and neither can you.

I have given you lots of reasons, trouble is, you're looking for excuses for it NOT to be Jeremy! You're asking for speculation when you have told others not to speculate. Like I have just posted, the bullets may not have been unloaded and reloaded on the occasion. Lots of permutations but NONE that makes Jeremy's story abut the rabbits remotely plausible.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 06:21:PM
I gather that one of the bullets (DRH/23) which had been loaded into the magazine and removed was found in a plastic tray or box? It migh be that that particular new bullet didn't load right, so it was placed to the side.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 06:23:PM
I have given you lots of reasons, trouble is, you're looking for excuses for it NOT to be Jeremy! You're asking for speculation when you have told others not to speculate. Like I have just posted, the bullets may not have been unloaded and reloaded on the occasion. Lots of permutations but NONE that makes Jeremy's story abut the rabbits remotely plausible.

I haven't told others not to speculate, I've merely said that opinions shouldn't be presented as facts.

If the bullets in question were loaded and unloaded previously, they wouldn't be in the magazine on the night of the murders.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 06:58:PM
Disregarding the previously loaded bullet found on the kitchen surface, I have considered the possibility that the other five had been previously loaded and unloaded, loaded again, and they then stayed in the magazine. Perhaps Jeremy was mistaken when he said the magazine was empty and there were five bullets in there. He could only have then loaded another five at most.

Of the five bullets which had been previously loaded, two were fired in the bedroom, one was fired in the kitchen, and two were fired in the children's bedroom.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:00:PM
I haven't told others not to speculate, I've merely said that opinions shouldn't be presented as facts.

If the bullets in question were loaded and unloaded previously, they wouldn't be in the magazine on the night of the murders.

No, but you have made an issue when others have speculated but seem to have no problem with it in this thread!

I didn't say they WERE in the magazine! I SAID they could have been in the box. You stated there were 49 in the box although you have failed to state where you got that from. That being the case, the box must have been open and the previously loaded bullets may have been in the box - having been unloaded from the magazine on a previous occasion. The bullets in the mag were loaded once!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:07:PM
No, but you have made an issue when others have speculated but seem to have no problem with it in this thread!
 
I didn't say they WERE in the magazine! I SAID they could have been in the box. You stated there were 49 in the box although you have failed to state where you got that from. That being the case, the box must have been open and the previously loaded bullets may have been in the box - having been unloaded from the magazine on a previous occasion. The bullets in the mag were loaded once!

I didn't say you said they were in the magazine. My post was a separate one, not a reply to you.

Five of the bullets fired from the magazine were loaded twice, so I don't understand that last bit.

Never mind the 49 thing - that was simply maths, but I then thought of another alternative.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:08:PM
Basically, if Jeremy took a full box of 50 bullets, then there were either five already in the magazine, or he got five from elsewhere. I don't know why he would do that.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:11:PM
Disregarding the previously loaded bullet found on the kitchen surface, I have considered the possibility that the other five had been previously loaded and unloaded, loaded again, and they then stayed in the magazine. Perhaps Jeremy was mistaken when he said the magazine was empty and there were five bullets in there. He could only have then loaded another five at most.

Of the five bullets which had been previously loaded, two were fired in the bedroom, one was fired in the kitchen, and two were fired in the children's bedroom.

No, Jeremy wasn't mistaken, he said he loaded 8-10 rounds into the magazine NOT 5!

So, if the bullets were in the rifle, it would mean the shooter fired twice in the bedroom, went into the twins room and then the kitchen. For starters, June was shot 3 times while in bed - not twice. It would mean one twin was shot leaving the other while they then headed off downstairs to shoot Nevill - once. The twice loaded bullets were loaded randomly! So they were either removed and reloaded from the Mag or they were in the box of ammo that Bamber tipped on the counter and the mag was already loaded with bullets that had been loaded once.

By the way, you can't just ignore the extra bullet!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:16:PM
I didn't say you said they were in the magazine. My post was a separate one, not a reply to you.

Five of the bullets fired from the magazine were loaded twice, so I don't understand that last bit.

Never mind the 49 thing - that was simply maths, but I then thought of another alternative.

IF the box that Bamber brought to the kitchen was open, it could have contained bullets that had been loaded and unloaded from the magazine and replaced in the box. This would explain the random nature of how those bullets were fired, given that they would have been tipped onto the counter altogether. The 'extra' 5 could have been bullets that has NOT been previously loaded.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:18:PM
No, Jeremy wasn't mistaken, he said he loaded 8-10 rounds into the magazine NOT 5!

So, if the bullets were in the rifle, it would mean the shooter fired twice in the bedroom, went into the twins room and then the kitchen. For starters, June was shot 3 times while in bed - not twice. It would mean one twin was shot leaving the other while they then headed off downstairs to shoot Nevill - once. The twice loaded bullets were loaded randomly! So they were either removed and reloaded from the Mag or they were in the box of ammo that Bamber tipped on the counter and the mag was already loaded with bullets that had been loaded once.

By the way, you can't just ignore the extra bullet!

So you think that five bullets from the box of 50 had been loaded, not used, unloaded and put back in the box?

The sixth bullet which had been loaded and unloaded was possibly from the box of 50 but wouldn't load right - hence it was separated from the others.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:20:PM
Are you saying that Jeremy knew there were five bullets already in the magazine, and that he lied about loading eight or ten? Why would he lie about that?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:20:PM
So you think that five bullets from the box of 50 had been loaded, not used, unloaded and put back in the box?

The sixth bullet which had been loaded and unloaded was possibly from the box of 50 but wouldn't load right - hence it was separated from the others.

I said 'possibly'.

No, the 6th bullet would have been just like the others, tipped onto the counter - it just didn't get loaded - again - possibly.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:25:PM
OK, so now we have a scenario where six bullets were put back into the box, so now there were 50 in the box. Jeremy couldn't have loaded 8-10 bullets because there were 5 already in the magazine. Why didn't he just say there were some bullets already in the magazine?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:26:PM
Are you saying that Jeremy knew there were five bullets already in the magazine, and that he lied about loading eight or ten? Why would he lie about that?

YES! The reason he lied is because he told the police that he brought the rifle out to shoot rabbits and that he was in RUSH to do so, if they knew the mag was already loaded his in 'a rush' scenario falls on it's arse! If you were in a rush and the rifle was ready to go, why would he need to get more ammo, tip it onto the counter ........... basically, the whole rabbit story makes no sense!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:28:PM
OK, so now we have a scenario where six bullets were put back into the box, so now there were 50 in the box. Jeremy couldn't have loaded 8-10 bullets because there were 5 already in the magazine. Why didn't he just say there were some bullets already in the magazine?

Just answered this.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:30:PM
how did Shelia overpower Jeremy sweet Caroline?

What you on about? Who said she did?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:33:PM
how does the five foot seven " slip of a girl Shelia caffell" prevent the 6 foot Bamber effecting a one shot suicide for the fourteenth time???

What's this got to do with the five extra bullets? Read the thread title!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:41:PM
what makes someone taking more ammunition more than required sinister? It's idiots like you who create idiotic red herrings

And it's idiots like you that would let a five times murderer roam the streets. Why don't you try reading the thread, learn something and stop disrupting! You have nothing to add except the usual crap!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:48:PM
YES! The reason he lied is because he told the police that he brought the rifle out to shoot rabbits and that he was in RUSH to do so, if they knew the mag was already loaded his in 'a rush' scenario falls on it's arse! If you were in a rush and the rifle was ready to go, why would he need to get more ammo, tip it onto the counter ........... basically, the whole rabbit story makes no sense!

OK, I can see that. It's a bit thin though. He said he was in a rush and at virtually the same time he said he loaded 8-10 bullets. It's not like he said he was in a rush, and then later he had to come up with an explanation as to why he loaded another 3-5 bullets. He could have just said that there were bullets in the magazine and he just filled it right up with another few bullets.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 07:52:PM
OK, I can see that. It's a bit thin though. He said he was in a rush and at virtually the same time he said he loaded 8-10 bullets. It's not like he said he was in a rush, and then later he had to come up with an explanation as to why he loaded another 3-5 bullets. He could have just said that there were bullets in the magazine and he just filled it right up with another few bullets.

He could have, but he didn't. I don't think it's thin - things in isolation will may seem that way, when you put them altogether though, that's what makes the difference.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 23, 2019, 07:56:PM
He could have, but he didn't. I don't think it's thin - things in isolation will may seem that way, when you put them altogether though, that's what makes the difference.

It also begs the question - if he was in a rush, why did he need to fill the magazine to shoot two rabbits?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: ilovebooze on November 23, 2019, 08:07:PM
So far, most of what you have posted has been bollocks but I also repeat ....... this thread isn't about being overpowered!
was Shelia wearing shin pads?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 23, 2019, 08:27:PM
I wish you'd stop this. You're a good poster who raises some good questions, but you're being a bit silly now.

I must have missed that. He won't stop, he thinks he's being witty an assuming. If he had the ability to debate properly, that's what he'd be doing but .......  :-\
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 24, 2019, 08:00:AM
He could have, but he didn't. I don't think it's thin - things in isolation will may seem that way, when you put them altogether though, that's what makes the difference.

Your possible explanation makes perfect sense - about there being five bullets in the magazine which were not removed, and that there were six bullets in the box which had previously been loaded into the magazine and then returned to the box.

I'm just wondering if Jeremy could have been mistaken rather than lying. I've watched videos of magazines being loaded and it's not clear how someone could tell how many bullets were in a magazine. They could see there was at least one though, but is it possible that he didn't see it?

Is it likely that five bullets would be left in the magazine from the last time it was used? I've read comments about Nevill being careful about guns, and how he put them away. I'm not sure that's the case though as guns were found in other places around the house.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 24, 2019, 08:36:AM



This is the problem when we attribute certain qualities to characters. Whilst we may not insert that they "always" did, that's how it's read. I have no doubt that Nevill was usually "careful about guns", especially so when the children were around. However, it appears, that on the night in question, there was 'stuff' going on. "Always" can't 'always' be guaranteed. From the general state of the kitchen, if Nevill was usually meticulous -even careful- he was the only person in the house who was, but it was "only" the kitchen, and, I suspect, a working kitchen with sundry comings and goings. It's not impossible that the rest of the house looked very different.

Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 24, 2019, 08:49:AM


This is the problem when we attribute certain qualities to characters. Whilst we may not insert that they "always" did, that's how it's read. I have no doubt that Nevill was usually "careful about guns", especially so when the children were around. However, it appears, that on the night in question, there was 'stuff' going on. "Always" can't 'always' be guaranteed. From the general state of the kitchen, if Nevill was usually meticulous -even careful- he was the only person in the house who was, but it was "only" the kitchen, and, I suspect, a working kitchen with sundry comings and goings. It's not impossible that the rest of the house looked very different.

I agree, but there was an insistence from some that Nevill always put guns away, and he clearly didn't. There were guns found in other places - the downstairs washroom, and the stairs leading from the kitchen - according to David Boutflour. They might not have been loaded, but they weren't put away, and the gun cupboard wasn't locked.

If the six bullets which had been loaded and unloaded before were put back in the box, that would suggest some kind of order, but if there were five bullets in the magazine, then that order wasn't always followed even before that night.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 24, 2019, 06:58:PM
It also begs the question - if he was in a rush, why did he need to fill the magazine to shoot two rabbits?

It didn't.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on November 25, 2019, 07:42:PM
Did Jeremy really get the gun out and leave all those bullets on the side before he went home? He didn't really need to do that. Sheila could have got the gun out herself and the bullets, or did he think that she wouldn't have done that?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 25, 2019, 07:54:PM
Did Jeremy really get the gun out and leave all those bullets on the side before he went home? He didn't really need to do that. Sheila could have got the gun out herself and the bullets, or did he think that she wouldn't have done that?


He probably didn't NEED to, but leaving it there may have shown a spontaneity, a spur of the moment decision/momentary madness on Sheila's part. I don't imagine that the plan was for it to look as if she'd calculated it. He could also say that forgetting to put it away may have triggered the thought.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 25, 2019, 09:12:PM
Did Jeremy really get the gun out and leave all those bullets on the side before he went home? He didn't really need to do that. Sheila could have got the gun out herself and the bullets, or did he think that she wouldn't have done that?

No, he didn't need to, which is why it's suspicious. In order for him to think that Sheila would get the gun out, he would have to be party to her thoughts - why, (if innocent), would he imagine that she would or wouldn't?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 26, 2019, 10:00:AM
Whether or not " he put thoughts into her head " as he left loose bullets, doesn't make him a killer when he physically didn't do it does it ?
I don't think telepathy features in a court of law.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 26, 2019, 01:10:PM
Whether or not " he put thoughts into her head " as he left loose bullets, doesn't make him a killer when he physically didn't do it does it ?
I don't think telepathy features in a court of law.

Except he did.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on November 26, 2019, 01:48:PM
Except he did.


It was proved, to most, beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt, that he did. It's for those who disagree, to prove beyond ANY shadow of doubt, that he did.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 26, 2019, 10:23:PM

It was proved, to most, beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt, that he did. It's for those who disagree, to prove beyond ANY shadow of doubt, that he did.




Fingerprints ??
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 26, 2019, 10:56:PM



Fingerprints ??

On the rifle.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2019, 10:26:AM
On the rifle.





Loose bullets ??
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2019, 11:29:AM




Loose bullets ??

What about them?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2019, 03:29:PM
What about them?





Fingerprints.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2019, 03:30:PM
I'm waiting for some forensic proof.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 07:44:PM
there was no rifle or bullets left out,he used this claim in conjunction with the claim that the twins were going to be fostered,to show this was the trigger for sheila to kill and the rifle was also there ready to be used,cunning ploy all part of the plan
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 07:47:PM
Don't mess with me boy ! I didn't come off the last banana boat you know.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 07:50:PM
Don't mess with me boy ! I didn't come off the last banana boat you know.
sorry lookout,ive been on the bottle
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 07:57:PM
sorry lookout,ive been on the bottle





Which is a reason I don't drink !
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 22, 2019, 08:02:PM
I'm waiting for some forensic proof.


Why wouldn't it have been there in spades? He was a regular visitor to the house. He'd have touched things. A kettle. A mug. A jar of coffee. The table. The gun. Finding traces of him would hardly have been a surprise.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:07:PM

Why wouldn't it have been there in spades? He was a regular visitor to the house. He'd have touched things. A kettle. A mug. A jar of coffee. The table. The gun. Finding traces of him would hardly have been a surprise.
thats a good point jane,caroline first suggested that jb may have been staying the night at the farm,which i also believe.why make two trips when it could be done in one,criminally it makes sense
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:12:PM

Why wouldn't it have been there in spades? He was a regular visitor to the house. He'd have touched things. A kettle. A mug. A jar of coffee. The table. The gun. Finding traces of him would hardly have been a surprise.




The silencer/s were handled as were the loose bullets. Fingermarks on June's neck would have been left by the murderer.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 22, 2019, 08:13:PM



The silencer/s were handled as were the loose bullets. Fingermarks on June's neck would have been left by the murderer.


Not if they wore gloves.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:15:PM



The silencer/s were handled as were the loose bullets. Fingermarks on June's neck would have been left by the murderer.
the finger marks may have belonged to june herself
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:18:PM

Not if they wore gloves.




No fibres, no gloves----------and marigolds still leave prints.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 08:19:PM
thats a good point jane,caroline first suggested that jb may have been staying the night at the farm,which i also believe.why make two trips when it could be done in one,criminally it makes sense
I know this scenario has been suggested and quite elaborately by other members but I reject it. It's my opinion that he still hadn't fully made his mind up at the time of the first telephone call to Julie, that she didn't fully realize the import during their twenty-minute conversation, that he was brooding over the events of the day: the orders given by Nevill, the laboriousness of the tasks, the favoritism his parents afforded the twins, the languidness of Sheila and a possible caustic remark to his detriment in the fields, the television programme on miscarriages which triggered June's hurtful remarks concerning Suzette which may have acted as a catalyst that yes, they all deserved to die..
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 08:19:PM
thats a good point jane,caroline first suggested that jb may have been staying the night at the farm,which i also believe.why make two trips when it could be done in one,criminally it makes sense
Didn't he go home though Sami, although he could have come back later to stay.  I like Caroline's theory, Neville took a shower downstairs before bed at night regular apparently, Bamber took care of things upstairs while he was showering, silencer on, waited for Neville then Bang as he came up stairs?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:21:PM
the finger marks may have belonged to june herself





I'll ignore that, plonker.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 22, 2019, 08:22:PM



No fibres, no gloves----------and marigolds still leave prints.


Depends on how sophisticated were the tests back then.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 08:22:PM
Didn't he go home though Sami, although he could have come back later to stay.  I like Caroline's theory, Neville took a shower downstairs before bed at night regular apparently, Bamber took care of things upstairs while he was showering, silencer on, waited for Neville then Bang as he came up stairs?
I think he tested the gun on the twins first, afraid that it might jam, then splayed his parents in the master bedroom with bullets, and whilst they came to their senses rushed downstairs to reload. I just can't picture Sheila having the energy or the nous to do this.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:25:PM
So what was Sheila doing in all this ? Watching her children being shot ?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 08:26:PM
So what was Sheila doing in all this ? Watching her children being shot ?
She was asleep in bed, exhausted by the Saturday party, the drive down to Tolleshunt D'Arcy, the Tiptree excursion and meeting June's cronies.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:27:PM




I'll ignore that, plonker.
now now lookout, she could have grabbed her neck when the shot were being fired at her,its common for people that have been shot to put their hands to the wounds
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:29:PM

Depends on how sophisticated were the tests back then.





Well knowing how EP shaped---talcum powder and a flu brush.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 22, 2019, 08:31:PM
So what was Sheila doing in all this ? Watching her children being shot ?


Imagining she was in a nightmare she'd wake up from?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:32:PM
I think he tested the gun on the twins first, afraid that it might jam, then splayed his parents in the master bedroom with bullets, and whilst they came to their senses rushed downstairs to reload. I just can't picture Sheila having the energy or the nous to do this.
could be steve,but i fancy he knew what that rifle could do having used it previously ,so no need to test,i feel the main targets which needed taking out first were the parents,a groggy sheila and the little twins could not easily escape a locked farm
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 08:34:PM
I know this scenario has been suggested and quite elaborately by other members but I reject it. It's my opinion that he still hadn't fully made his mind up at the time of the first telephone call to Julie, that she didn't fully realize the import during their twenty-minute conversation, that he was brooding over the events of the day: the orders given by Nevill, the laboriousness of the tasks, the favoritism his parents afforded the twins, the languidness of Sheila and a possible caustic remark to his detriment in the fields, the television programme on miscarriages which triggered June's hurtful remarks concerning Suzette which may have acted as a catalyst that yes, they all deserved to die..
It could have been a trigger yes Steve, you mean the phone conversation the night before?  What do you make of his friend Brett, arriving in June, staying till end of July, going out the country JUST before the murders, returning again just after?   Planning or what!  Julie gets dumped when him and Brett have other plans, a life without Julie.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 08:39:PM

Imagining she was in a nightmare she'd wake up from?
Yes I bet it took her by surprise Jane, she never looked stressed out in the photo even in death though, making me think she hadn’t been in a rage or fit ect
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: lookout on December 22, 2019, 08:41:PM

Imagining she was in a nightmare she'd wake up from?





During her time shooting them !
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 08:41:PM
could be steve,but i fancy he knew what that rifle could do having used it previously ,so no need to test,i feel the main targets which needed taking out first were the parents,a groggy sheila and the little twins could not easily escape a locked farm
But he couldn't have the twins running around, plus if he was as squeamish as the Jeremy supporters are making out he would want to dispatch them quickly whilst still under the covers.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:42:PM
It could have been a trigger yes Steve, you mean the phone conversation the night before?  What do you make of his friend Brett, arriving in June, staying till end of July, going out the country JUST before the murders, returning again just after?   Planning or what!  Julie gets dumped when him and Brett have other plans, a life without Julie.
yes rj bamber made some very bad mistakes telling julie was one,the call to police was another,iam sure other members could add some more,he may have driven the car home that night and returned on junes bike within an hour.than went to bed for the early morning start,but only he would see the sunrise the others were dead
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 08:46:PM
It could have been a trigger yes Steve, you mean the phone conversation the night before?  What do you make of his friend Brett, arriving in June, staying till end of July, going out the country JUST before the murders, returning again just after?   Planning or what!  Julie gets dumped when him and Brett have other plans, a life without Julie.
I'm not sure it was as simple as that. Remember Jeremy had spent many long nights at boarding school feeling out of his depth and thus welcomed company from all quarters. Brett may have caught wind of what was in the air and scarpered but there's no evidence to support it save some blog I recall from years ago that he knew how to enter and exit a country whilst bypassing passport control.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 08:48:PM
But he couldn't have the twins running around, plus if he was as squeamish as the Jeremy supporters are making out he would want to dispatch them quickly whilst still under the covers.
thats true steve,but no one could hear the twins or sheila while they were locked in the farm,had june or neville managed to get out and start screaming,that could have ruined the whole plan,plus the number of shots to each twin tells me he was in no hurry or else two shots a piece to the head would be enough
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 08:49:PM
I'm not sure it was as simple as that. Remember Jeremy had spent many long nights at boarding school feeling out of his depth and thus welcomed company from all quarters. Brett may have caught wind of what was in the air and scarpered but there's no evidence to support it save some blog I recall from years ago that he knew how to enter and exit a country whilst bypassing passport control.
Bingo, have you got the blog Steve?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 08:57:PM
thats true steve,but no one could hear the twins or sheila while they were locked in the farm,had june or neville managed to get out and start screaming,that could have ruined the whole plan,plus the number of shots to each twin tells me he was in no hurry or else two shots a piece to the head would be enough
What about, Neville has gone for the trailer that Bamber left him, Sheila is in June’s bedroom chatting about religion, Bamber quickly goes upstairs, shoots the twins, Sheila jumps up with the muffled noise of the silencer, Bamber meets her coming out the bedroom, orders her inside, he shoots June several times, orders Sheila to lie down, bang then shoots June quickly again realises Sheila isn’t dead and offers the second shot?  Neville returns but goes straight in shower, Bamber then had ample time for Neville.  Then he drives home, so could it have been done earlier than everyone is led to believe?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on December 22, 2019, 09:00:PM
What about, Neville has gone for the trailer that Bamber left him, Sheila is in June’s bedroom chatting about religion, Bamber quickly goes upstairs, shoots the twins, Sheila jumps up with the muffled noise of the silencer, Bamber meets her coming out the bedroom, orders her inside, he shoots June several times, orders Sheila to lie down, bang then shoots June quickly again realises Sheila isn’t dead and offers the second shot?  Neville returns but goes straight in shower, Bamber then had ample time for Neville.  Then he drives home, so could it have been done earlier than everyone is led to believe?

He would have had to reload after shooting the twins. He might have had bullets in his pocket, but it would still take time to reload.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 09:02:PM
Bingo, have you got the blog Steve?
I read that story very early on in my association with the case-probably about seven years ago. I know it's not been mentioned exclusively by myself since so maybe someone could direct us to the source?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 09:02:PM
He would have had to reload after shooting the twins. He might have had bullets in his pocket, but it would still take time to reload.
This is where the second magazine would come in, or could he have fired two in each leaving  seven spare?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on December 22, 2019, 09:04:PM
This is where the second magazine would come in, or could he have fired two in each leaving  seven spare?

Why go and shoot them again though?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 09:04:PM
What about, Neville has gone for the trailer that Bamber left him, Sheila is in June’s bedroom chatting about religion, Bamber quickly goes upstairs, shoots the twins, Sheila jumps up with the muffled noise of the silencer, Bamber meets her coming out the bedroom, orders her inside, he shoots June several times, orders Sheila to lie down, bang then shoots June quickly again realises Sheila isn’t dead and offers the second shot?  Neville returns but goes straight in shower, Bamber then had ample time for Neville.  Then he drives home, so could it have been done earlier than everyone is led to believe?
I have heard such a scenario before but don't forget it would all have to occur after the 10 o' clock telephone call from Pamela.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 09:05:PM
I read that story very early on in my association with the case-probably about seven years ago. I know it's not been mentioned exclusively by myself since so maybe someone could direct us to the source?
Its been a theory of mine Steve, I’m sure it was a lot easier then, but his passport must have shown him going out and coming back in it was stamped I think?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 09:09:PM
Why go and shoot them again though?
It was suggested over kill at one time to make it look more like Sheila, I’d go for second Magazine or Bamber reloading, remember both him and Sheila would have to reload fast, I’d go for Bamber being the quickest.  Maybe he went into June’s room first, with a muffled shot I don’t think he’d wake the twins up?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Steve_uk on December 22, 2019, 09:11:PM
Its been a theory of mine Steve, I’m sure it was a lot easier then, but his passport must have shown him going out and coming back in it was stamped I think?
Yes it was. There are many hoaxes around. I remember Radio 5 Live following the Diana accident saying an eyewitness in Paris had seen her walking away from the ambulance.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 09:16:PM
It was suggested over kill at one time to make it look more like Sheila, I’d go for second Magazine or Bamber reloading, remember both him and Sheila would have to reload fast, I’d go for Bamber being the quickest.  Maybe he went into June’s room first, with a muffled shot I don’t think he’d wake the twins up?
spot on rj,another of his cunning plans,overkill to mimic sheila,s mind set
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 22, 2019, 09:22:PM
spot on rj,another of his cunning plans,overkill to mimic sheila,s mind set


But this would definitely be part of the plan, Sami. He never intended to look like Jeremy, an excellent marksman and winner of school prizes, had done it. It had to look like the work of a crazed woman -which actually wouldn't have been easy- shooting randomly. He didn't get it QUITE right because every bullet went home, but he made sure they were well peppered.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 09:27:PM

But this would definitely be part of the plan, Sami. He never intended to look like Jeremy, an excellent marksman and winner of school prizes, had done it. It had to look like the work of a crazed woman -which actually wouldn't have been easy- shooting randomly. He didn't get it QUITE right because every bullet went home, but he made sure they were well peppered.
good point jane,with her balance, hand and eye coordination she couldnt possibly hit the target evertime
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Kaldin on December 22, 2019, 09:27:PM
It was suggested over kill at one time to make it look more like Sheila, I’d go for second Magazine or Bamber reloading, remember both him and Sheila would have to reload fast, I’d go for Bamber being the quickest.  Maybe he went into June’s room first, with a muffled shot I don’t think he’d wake the twins up?

I don't believe that theory of making it look like overkill. I think the eight shots to the twins happened at the same time, which means that whoever shot them used pretty much a full magazine to do so.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 09:30:PM
I don't believe that theory of making it look like overkill. I think the eight shots to the twins happened at the same time, which means that whoever shot them used pretty much a full magazine to do so.
Yes I agree, it still leaves three then, not as many to reload.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 09:32:PM
I don't believe that theory of making it look like overkill. I think the eight shots to the twins happened at the same time, which means that whoever shot them used pretty much a full magazine to do so.
two careful shots a piece would have been enough remember they were a sleep so the targets were stationery,using 8 is overkill jb knew what he was doing
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 09:35:PM
two careful shots a piece would have been enough remember they were a sleep so the targets were stationery,using 8 is overkill jb knew what he was doing
Yes it’s strange why he fired that many in the twins Sami?  Must have been a reason.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 22, 2019, 09:37:PM
Yes it’s strange why he fired that many in the twins Sami?  Must have been a reason.
you already said it rj,and i totally agree,overkill to blame sheila
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 22, 2019, 10:37:PM
you already said it rj,and i totally agree,overkill to blame sheila
I wouldn’t think it would take four bullets Sami, got to be a reason mate I don’t think Sheila for one minute could load that magazine quick and to maximum each time with them nails,  like I said, Fletcher broke one of his just removing the catch and his was short.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on December 22, 2019, 11:52:PM
Don't mess with me boy ! I didn't come off the last banana boat you know.

Oh dear!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 23, 2019, 09:02:AM
you already said it rj,and i totally agree,overkill to blame sheila
Wasn’t it another coincidence there was no bullet’s left in the magazine or breach?  Even down to Sheila using the last two.  It’s as though someone who use’s guns regular by habit has left it safe?  This could explain the over kill Sami, using up the bullet’s.
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 23, 2019, 09:45:AM
Wasn’t it another coincidence there was no bullet’s left in the magazine or breach?  Even down to Sheila using the last two.  It’s as though someone who use’s guns regular by habit has left it safe?  This could explain the over kill Sami, using up the bullet’s.
also makes you wonder what poor sheila would have done if the second shot was not fatal,half dead she couldnt go looking for more bullets
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 23, 2019, 09:59:AM
also makes you wonder what poor sheila would have done if the second shot was not fatal,half dead she couldnt go looking for more bullets
Absolutely spot on Sami 👍 She would just keep realoading till she got the angle right I bet Sami 🙈 Or MAGIC another one?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Real justice on December 23, 2019, 10:24:AM
also makes you wonder what poor sheila would have done if the second shot was not fatal,half dead she couldnt go looking for more bullets
Don’t forget Sami, they are Magic bullet’s 😂😂
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Jane on December 23, 2019, 10:35:AM
also makes you wonder what poor sheila would have done if the second shot was not fatal,half dead she couldnt go looking for more bullets


Sami, maybe she anticipated getting the first shot wrong and loaded a spare, just in case?
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: Caroline on December 23, 2019, 11:19:AM
Wasn’t it another coincidence there was no bullet’s left in the magazine or breach?  Even down to Sheila using the last two.  It’s as though someone who use’s guns regular by habit has left it safe?  This could explain the over kill Sami, using up the bullet’s.

Another coincidence!
Title: Re: Five Magic Bullets
Post by: sami on December 23, 2019, 05:35:PM

Sami, maybe she anticipated getting the first shot wrong and loaded a spare, just in case?
:)) :)) :))