Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Caroline on October 11, 2019, 04:39:AM

Title: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 11, 2019, 04:39:AM
C/O Myster

https://www.tvwise.co.uk/2019/10/its-official-itv-orders-jeremy-bamber-drama-white-house-farm-freddie-fox-mark-addy-more-to-star/

https://www.itv.com/presscentre/press-releases/itv-announces-details-new-factual-drama-white-house-farm
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 11, 2019, 10:04:AM
Hopefully there will be a realistic reconstruction of Jeremy committing the massacre. The evidence is available.

Previous ones on documentaries have been lazy.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 11, 2019, 10:25:AM
If they are doing a 6 part drama, time can be spent on the massacre -

2 shots into the twins

9 shots into June & Neville

Kitchen fight - in detail.

4 shots into Nevill

2 shots into June

6 shots into the twins.

2 shots into Sheila.

---------

Reloads at appropriate times. The cycle ride, entrance, exit, back burns, coal scuttle lift & of course the silcencer removal should be included.

The programme makers have artistic licence on whether Sheila woke during the kitchen fight.

All not very pleasant, but assume it will go out after the watershed and their choice to create the series.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 11:21:AM
Is this the one which was started last year ? When is it supposed to get an airing ?
I haven't yet looked at the link so I suppose it'll answer my questions.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 11:40:AM
Just looked at the link to see it's the same producer and it begins early next year.
I also noticed that nobody committed themselves on who the killer was.
The only actor who I recognised is Stephen Graham ( my daughter has a selfie with him when he was filming Virtues, a brilliant series )

It all looks biased to me------again. Would JB's permission have to be granted ? Afterall, he is still alive !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 11:55:AM
I wonder if CC will include his remark about June ? I'll wonder about a lot of things which won't get a mention and it covers longer than a 6 part series. It's the lives of each individual which can't successfully be condensed without bias. The relatives for instance grannie's Will, the absence of DNA and forensic evidence, the backgrounds of all families. I'll be viewing with trepidation !   
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 11, 2019, 01:02:PM
I wonder if CC will include his remark about June ? I'll wonder about a lot of things which won't get a mention and it covers longer than a 6 part series. It's the lives of each individual which can't successfully be condensed without bias. The relatives for instance grannie's Will, the absence of DNA and forensic evidence, the backgrounds of all families. I'll be viewing with trepidation !

If it was coming from the side of innocence you wouldn’t have mentioned bias  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on October 11, 2019, 01:03:PM
My guess is that it will turn out to be a good drama, but based on very inadequate investigation that ignores or glosses over many areas of controversy, such as the details of Sheila's illness, and the loss or concealment of various original hand-written documents.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 11, 2019, 01:05:PM
My guess is that it will turn out to be a good drama, but based on very inadequate investigation that ignores or glosses over many areas of controversy, such as the details of Sheila's illness, and the loss or concealment of various original hand-written documents.

You can always send in a nit picking letter to points of view!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 01:11:PM
My guess is that it will turn out to be a good drama, but based on very inadequate investigation that ignores or glosses over many areas of controversy, such as the details of Sheila's illness, and the loss or concealment of various original hand-written documents.




I can fully agree with you there Reader.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 01:15:PM
What I found interesting was that there was no actual/written admission of JB's guilt ? Why's that ?
It doesn't seem enough that it states he was " convicted and imprisoned ?"

Normally at the end of such a sequence you have the final admittance and charge.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 11, 2019, 01:19:PM
What I found interesting was that there was no actual/written admission of JB's guilt ? Why's that ?
It doesn't seem enough that it states he was " convicted and imprisoned ?"

Normally at the end of such a sequence you have the final admittance and charge.

So someone is innocent if they don’t admit guilt? O.........k
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 01:34:PM
So someone is innocent if they don’t admit guilt? O.........k





I didn't say that ! I was on about the events which were written about the drama.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 02:09:PM
The courtroom should be interesting ! JM pretending to cry so that she doesn't have to answer any questions but crave sympathy instead. Then the relatives being ushered out because of outbursts. JB was the only one who remained calm because he was telling the truth.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 11, 2019, 02:29:PM
249.

We have considered the potential impact that Action 94 might have had on the jury. We think it is wholly unrealistic to suggest that the jury might have been persuaded by it that there had not been a violent struggle in the kitchen.

Even if one discounts the evidence of the overturned stools and chairs and the broken sugar bowl, there was sufficient other evidence to suggest a violent struggle.

Mr Bamber's body lay across an overturned chair that can have had nothing to do with the actions of the TFG, the light fitting was broken, there were the injuries apart from the shot wounds to Mr Bamber, there was the piece broken off the rifle stock, there were score marks under the mantelpiece where it had been struck by the sound moderator attached to the rifle, and there was Mr Bamber's watch lying damaged under a rug on the other side of the room.

---------

This is a good section from the COA, for those that claim there was no kitchen fight & the raid team knocked things over. There is also of course Nevill's horrific injuries which have been posted earlier today. Doubt the qualified raid team knocked anything over.

Obviously such a violent fight could have only been between Bamber & Nevill.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 11, 2019, 02:31:PM
Bamber put Nevill's watch underneath a rug. To collect at a later date.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 11, 2019, 02:41:PM
Injured or not, Nevill would have just used his body weight to fall onto Sheila. They wrestled for the rifle so he was close enough.

There would be nothing Sheila could do if a 15 stone man was on top of her.

But as previously said, Nevill would have shut down the issue before any shots were fired. He had an early start on the farm.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 11, 2019, 03:34:PM
Bamber put Nevill's watch underneath a rug. To collect at a later date.




Oh dear.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 12, 2019, 11:46:AM



Oh dear.

Who else put the watch under the rug after it fell off during the fight?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 12, 2019, 12:03:PM
A lot of the kitchen events need to be shown as these issues were discussed at the trial & afterwards -

To show how the scratch marks occurred.

To show how the ceiling light was smashed. Which supports the scratch marks.

To show that Nevill could not simply fall onto his attacker & use his body weight.

To show the advantage the attacker had due to wearing shoes.

To show how hard Nevill had to be hit multiple times to obtain his injuries & for the stock to break & Nevill's watch to fall off. The attacker needing to be very strong.

To show how heavy Nevill was to lift onto a coal scuttle.

To show Nevill's strenght and how strongly he fought in the kitchen. Showing why he received 4 more shots after being knocked out.

To show why Nevill's back was burnt.

----------

Not relating to Nevill, is the exit out of the kitchen window. The sink tidy being moved.





Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 12, 2019, 12:16:PM
Be good if a whole episode could be dedicated to the period from supper to the middle of the next day. Thirty minutes dedicated to the massacre alone.

If the series is being made as a 'who done it', it's doubtful anything will be shown of the massacre.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 12:35:PM
Who else put the watch under the rug after it fell off during the fight?




Well he didn't get it did he ? ::)

It would have inadvertently been kicked underneath the rug during a scuffle. Who would have been worried about a blooming watch at that juncture ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 12:36:PM
Who got the watch anyway ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on October 12, 2019, 12:42:PM
Neville and June were milch cows to Jeremy, and that's all they were..
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 01:35:PM
Neville and June were milch cows to Jeremy, and that's all they were..




Steve there's nothing unique in that as lots of parents are the same toward their children/teens/adults.
Do any of them appreciate it ??
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 01:38:PM
I wonder if anyone spoke to JB about this forthcoming series ? Permission/consent ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 12, 2019, 02:02:PM
Neville and June were milch cows to Jeremy, and that's all they were..


Added to which, he may have believed, given how "hard" he had to work for it, that he was entitled to more.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 12, 2019, 02:21:PM
I wonder if anyone spoke to JB about this forthcoming series ? Permission/consent ?

They don't need his permission or consent.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 12, 2019, 02:22:PM

Added to which, he may have believed, given how "hard" he had to work for it, that he was entitled to more.

You meal 'all'?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 02:24:PM
He couldn't have worked that hard to have had the energy to kill 5 people after having done 17 hours ??
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 12, 2019, 02:24:PM
You meal 'all'?


Indeed so.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 12, 2019, 02:26:PM
He couldn't have worked that hard to have had the energy to kill 5 people after having done 17 hours ??

He was skiving around the farmyard most of the evening and sloped off without completing the job. He had the energy, and a lot of that would have come from Adrenalin.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 02:31:PM
He was skiving around the farmyard most of the evening and sloped off without completing the job. He had the energy, and a lot of that would have come from Adrenalin.




And you know this ? How ? Who told you ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 12, 2019, 02:34:PM



And you know this ? How ? Who told you ?

How do I know? Read his statement! He was around the farmyard more than in the field on the eve of the murders and left Nevill to finish off. It's no secret!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 02:38:PM
How do I know? Read his statement! He was around the farmyard more than in the field on the eve of the murders and left Nevill to finish off. It's no secret!




I thought that was after the evening meal ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 12, 2019, 02:48:PM
He couldn't have worked that hard to have had the energy to kill 5 people after having done 17 hours ??


Total TWADDLE! Where lust for anything is concerned, tiredness takes a back seat.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 02:53:PM

Total TWADDLE! Where lust for anything is concerned, tiredness takes a back seat.




Do you really have to persist in using insulting words to something that doesn't fit YOUR way of thinking ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 12, 2019, 02:56:PM
That said, my TWADDLE is every bit as good as your TWADDLE ! It's the only way to answer those like you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 12, 2019, 03:02:PM
That said, my TWADDLE is every bit as good as your TWADDLE ! It's the only way to answer those like you.


Well, I fail to see that TWADDLE -foolish nonsense- is insulting, even in these PC days. I'd call it a pretty accurate description of a 24 year old who you claim would be too tired to commit murder for half a million pounds and his freedom.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on October 16, 2019, 10:57:PM
My guess is that it will turn out to be a good drama, but based on very inadequate investigation that ignores or glosses over many areas of controversy, such as the details of Sheila's illness, and the loss or concealment of various original hand-written documents.

Since they are portraying real people by name. They have to be very careful. The only exemptions being Sheila, Stan Jones and RWB since they are dead. Then Jeremy as he has no reputation or character to defame.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 16, 2019, 11:44:PM
Since they are portraying real people by name. They have to be very careful. The only exemptions being Sheila, Stan Jones and RWB since they are dead. Then Jeremy as he has no reputation or character to defame.

A lot of it is based on CAL's book, it was certainly used as a frame of reference.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 17, 2019, 11:19:AM
A lot of it is based on CAL's book, it was certainly used as a frame of reference.





As well as CC's book which wouldn't surprise me if the producer has already met CC.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on October 17, 2019, 12:42:PM
The only exemptions being Sheila, Stan Jones and RWB since they are dead.
Why would they be the only exemptions? You know perfectly well that various others related to the WHF killings are now dead as well.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 17, 2019, 01:27:PM
Why would they be the only exemptions? You know perfectly well that various others related to the WHF killings are now dead as well.

I think this is reference to the key players! Who would you have added?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 17, 2019, 04:38:PM
Both the grannies who left fortunes, one of them changing her Will rather sharpish.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 17, 2019, 05:44:PM
Both the grannies who left fortunes, one of them changing her Will rather sharpish.

Well they wouldn't be suing anyone would they? They're dead!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 17, 2019, 06:58:PM
Well they wouldn't be suing anyone would they? They're dead!




Their money isn't dead though so where did it go, there'll be no explanation ? I'm filling in gaps which won't be mentioned in the drama. I'll watch the series then voice my opinion to the writer/producer after.
PE and his fraudulent ways which he got away with " because of the trial ". Police officers can't multi-task.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 17, 2019, 07:31:PM



Their money isn't dead though so where did it go, there'll be no explanation ? I'm filling in gaps which won't be mentioned in the drama. I'll watch the series then voice my opinion to the writer/producer after.
PE and his fraudulent ways which he got away with " because of the trial ". Police officers can't multi-task.

Pam would have inherited Her mother and June's money I imagine. The drama is about the murders, not the money squabbles later.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 17, 2019, 08:43:PM
Pam would have inherited Her mother and June's money I imagine. The drama is about the murders, not the money squabbles later.




Pity, because it shows people in a different light if they think they're going to dip out.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on October 18, 2019, 05:18:AM
I think this is reference to the key players! Who would you have added?
DCI "Taff" Jones, D.I. Bob Miller, ACC Peter Simpson, Chief Superintendent George Harris (died 6th April 2018, aged 85), and perhaps Barbara Wilson.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 11:20:AM
I wonder why it was that MM didn't sue anyone for being wrongly branded as a hitman ? I imagine that accusation would stay with you for a long time.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on October 18, 2019, 12:04:PM
I wonder why it was that MM didn't sue anyone for being wrongly branded as a hitman ? I imagine that accusation would stay with you for a long time.

He went around telling people stories of that nature to impress people. He would have no such claim as he brought it on himself.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 12:21:PM
DCI "Taff" Jones, D.I. Bob Miller, ACC Peter Simpson, Chief Superintendent George Harris (died 6th April 2018, aged 85), and perhaps Barbara Wilson.

Earlier reports of BW death were incorrect.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 18, 2019, 01:24:PM
He went around telling people stories of that nature to impress people. He would have no such claim as he brought it on himself.




Daft thing. Thick as two short planks.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 18, 2019, 01:32:PM



Daft thing. Thick as two short planks.


I don't think that information is new. It seems to have been accepted that he created a persona for himself.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on October 18, 2019, 03:00:PM

I don't think that information is new. It seems to have been accepted that he created a persona for himself.

It's not new.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 19, 2019, 10:18:AM
The pictures of the ITV drama look promising. Bamber & Julie at the funeral look very similar to 1985.

Hopefully it is a straight forward A-B drama. Show the build up to & the reasons why Bamber thought he would get away with it. Followed by the massacre. Followed by the trial & a summary of the 33 years of appeals.

Making it into a 'who done it' will restrict the programme makers too much as there is so much incriminating evidence against Bsmber.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 11:48:AM
Nobody looks like anyone in that drama. No wonder line-ups/ identifications go wrong when people say they are " spitting images "  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 11:52:AM
The pictures of the ITV drama look promising. Bamber & Julie at the funeral look very similar to 1985.

Hopefully it is a straight forward A-B drama. Show the build up to & the reasons why Bamber thought he would get away with it. Followed by the massacre. Followed by the trial & a summary of the 33 years of appeals.

Making it into a 'who done it' will restrict the programme makers too much as there is so much incriminating evidence against Bsmber.




If people have got any sense, they'll be hard-pushed to find any evidence against JB. That's if the drama isn't hell-bent on being one-sided as a means of raking the money in like the media have been !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on October 19, 2019, 12:04:PM
Nobody looks like anyone in that drama. No wonder line-ups/ identifications go wrong when people say they are " spitting images "  ::)

Well the programme makers dressed Bamber & Julie in mirror image clothing at the funeral. Julie's hat even had a veil over it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 12:30:PM
Well the programme makers dressed Bamber & Julie in mirror image clothing at the funeral. Julie's hat even had a veil over it.



Hats like that aren't hard to come by. If you dress a lot of women and add a hat like that they'd look like JM but that's not to say that the face will be the same. They're only dressed to look the same, it's their faces that matter most----to me anyway, or I'll just be sitting telling myself it looks nothing like her/him. I'm a stickler for getting things right.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 19, 2019, 12:56:PM


Hats like that aren't hard to come by. If you dress a lot of women and add a hat like that they'd look like JM but that's not to say that the face will be the same. They're only dressed to look the same, it's their faces that matter most----to me anyway, or I'll just be sitting telling myself it looks nothing like her/him. I'm a stickler for getting things right.


Some of our best actors look NOTHING like the person they're portraying, but they get the mannerisms SO exact that they become that person.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 01:10:PM

Some of our best actors look NOTHING like the person they're portraying, but they get the mannerisms SO exact that they become that person.



Difficult if you've never seen/met them. A person " performing " in public doesn't necessarily portray them in real life.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 01:16:PM
The closest is Helen Mirren as the Queen.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on October 19, 2019, 01:26:PM


Difficult if you've never seen/met them. A person " performing " in public doesn't necessarily portray them in real life.


VERY difficult if the performer has never seen the private person.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on October 19, 2019, 01:52:PM

VERY difficult if the performer has never seen the private person.




Very few would get to meet a private person.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on November 30, 2019, 09:56:PM
Just seen the trailer for this, starts in January - looks good!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 10:12:AM
Just seen the trailer for this, starts in January - looks good!





Whatever Stephen Graham's starring in is good. It's just a pity he's got such a short appearance. I'm a bit miffed about that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 10:45:AM
I still think this is going to be one-sided with CAL having met, in person, police and possibly relatives who are naturally going to say, or tell her that he's guilty. I don't believe that she ever went to see Jeremy as many authors like to gather information while studying a person face to face, especially as it's now being televised.
I trust the relatives would had been foretold of this " intrusion " on their part ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on December 01, 2019, 12:19:PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/amp/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html&ved=2ahUKEwiO9ov_tJTmAhWTTxUIHcr9BaU4ChAWMAl6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw2Y-8WUeMN9Ct9jkY-hbe-b

CAL is saying Bamber left Nevill in the bedroom & went to shoot the twins before re loading. Nevill following him into the kitchen.

Don't agree with that. Unless he was sure Nevill was dead. Which he certainly was not.

Nevill may have been staggering & on his knees. Bamber believing he was immobilised & no threat. So left Nevill & June. Nevill later making a final huge effort to negate Bamber in the kitchen.

This is also going against Julie's WS, who said the twins were shot first.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 01:05:PM
I still think this is going to be one-sided with CAL having met, in person, police and possibly relatives who are naturally going to say, or tell her that he's guilty. I don't believe that she ever went to see Jeremy as many authors like to gather information while studying a person face to face, especially as it's now being televised.
I trust the relatives would had been foretold of this " intrusion " on their part ?

She makes it clear that she never went to see him, there was no need to see or speak to him. She has letters from the man himself which are better than any notes she could have took. Daisy met him personally on several occasions and you weren't happy with what she had to say either. CAL's book is as accurate as anyone could be, it equals Wilkes in facts but goes much further and is the best book available about the case. Jeremy knew CAL was writing a book and he had his contribution.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 01:20:PM




Whatever Stephen Graham's starring in is good. It's just a pity he's got such a short appearance. I'm a bit miffed about that.

How do you know he had a short appearance? He's one of the stars and Taff Jones had a major part to play during the initial investigation. However, a minor detail but perhaps Mark Addy should have played Taff Jones and Stephen Graham, Stan Jones? Stan was younger than Taff - although both are really good actors. It's a great cast and from the trailer - it looks amazing.

HBO have bought the US rights so it will be shown there ext year too.

https://deadline.com/2019/11/hbo-max-takes-u-s-rights-to-stephen-graham-fronted-itv-crime-drama-white-house-farm-1202797078/

https://deadline.com/2019/11/hbo-max-takes-u-s-rights-to-stephen-graham-fronted-itv-crime-drama-white-house-farm-1202797078/
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 01:23:PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/amp/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html&ved=2ahUKEwiO9ov_tJTmAhWTTxUIHcr9BaU4ChAWMAl6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw2Y-8WUeMN9Ct9jkY-hbe-b

CAL is saying Bamber left Nevill in the bedroom & went to shoot the twins before re loading. Nevill following him into the kitchen.

Don't agree with that. Unless he was sure Nevill was dead. Which he certainly was not.

Nevill may have been staggering & on his knees. Bamber believing he was immobilised & no threat. So left Nevill & June. Nevill later making a final huge effort to negate Bamber in the kitchen.

This is also going against Julie's WS, who said the twins were shot first.

That is just her scenario at the end, we all have one of those. However, the book itself is a goos account of the facts and certainly the best on the market.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 02:12:PM
How do you know he had a short appearance? He's one of the stars and Taff Jones had a major part to play during the initial investigation. However, a minor detail but perhaps Mark Addy should have played Taff Jones and Stephen Graham, Stan Jones? Stan was younger than Taff - although both are really good actors. It's a great cast and from the trailer - it looks amazing.

HBO have bought the US rights so it will be shown there ext year too.

https://deadline.com/2019/11/hbo-max-takes-u-s-rights-to-stephen-graham-fronted-itv-crime-drama-white-house-farm-1202797078/

https://deadline.com/2019/11/hbo-max-takes-u-s-rights-to-stephen-graham-fronted-itv-crime-drama-white-house-farm-1202797078/




Because of " Taff's " sudden  and untimely death he wasn't around to see or involve himself in any way, least of all at the most important part of the case, i.e. the trial.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 02:21:PM
I must admit to having very mixed feelings about the series. I don't know why but I feel uncomfortable about it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 01, 2019, 02:40:PM
I must admit to having very mixed feelings about the series. I don't know why but I feel uncomfortable about it.
I don’t think how it’s portrayed will have any effect either way Lookout, it’s a story that could be changed to suit, at the end of the day these directors will go for dramatising and organising the realisation of his/her version.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 03:01:PM
I don’t think how it’s portrayed will have any effect either way Lookout, it’s a story that could be changed to suit, at the end of the day these directors will go for dramatising and organising the realisation of his/her version.




Because I'm such a stickler for the truth and what you say about dramatization opens up an opportunity to skirt around certain areas which, in the background, get little or no mention and which is invariably part and parcel of the " plot " such as the thorough and individual investigation ( or lack of ) in all those concerned who had a vested interest.

The above couldn't possibly be written into just 6x1 hour episodes. A crime of this proportion can't be condensed without full knowledge of each individual.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on December 01, 2019, 03:26:PM

Because I'm such a stickler for the truth and what you say about dramatization opens up an opportunity to skirt around certain areas which, in the background, get little or no mention and which is invariably part and parcel of the " plot " such as the thorough and individual investigation ( or lack of ) in all those concerned who had a vested interest.

The above couldn't possibly be written into just 6x1 hour episodes. A crime of this proportion can't be condensed without full knowledge of each individual.

This series is made purely for entertainment purposes.

The best way to make a drama about a case like this is to make both characters look culpable and not give it a proper ending and leave the conclusion to the imagination to the audience.

That's how I would direct it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 03:50:PM
This series is made purely for entertainment purposes.

The best way to make a drama about a case like this is to make both characters look culpable and not give it a proper ending and leave the conclusion to the imagination to the audience.

That's how I would direct it.




I'd thought of that too but nobody likes to feel cheated do they ? I suppose it's all down to what we here know about the case and what we feel will be omitted.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on December 01, 2019, 03:58:PM
That is just her scenario at the end, we all have one of those. However, the book itself is a goos account of the facts and certainly the best on the market.

Appreciate it is her scenario.

Don't believe Nevill would follow Bamber downstairs.

Firstly he is badly injured. If he was going to attack him, better to save energy & wait until he returns upstairs.

Bamber may also hear Nevill come downstairs & shoot him when or before he arrives.

Nevill may also try to wake Sheila & the twins while Bamber was in the kitchen. After seeing how badly injured June was.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 01, 2019, 04:23:PM
Appreciate it is her scenario.

Don't believe Nevill would follow Bamber downstairs.

Firstly he is badly injured. If he was going to attack him, better to save energy & wait until he returns upstairs.

Bamber may also hear Nevill come downstairs & shoot him when or before he arrives.

Nevill may also try to wake Sheila & the twins while Bamber was in the kitchen. After seeing how badly injured June was.
save energy? That's laughable. This is a real life scenario. Nevill would have been going at Jeremy like the clappers. We're not playing grand theft auto.....
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 04:36:PM



Because of " Taff's " sudden  and untimely death he wasn't around to see or involve himself in any way, least of all at the most important part of the case, i.e. the trial.

His role was still a major one and maybe the series doesn't get as far as the trial. We'll have to see.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 04:39:PM
This series is made purely for entertainment purposes.

The best way to make a drama about a case like this is to make both characters look culpable and not give it a proper ending and leave the conclusion to the imagination to the audience.

That's how I would direct it.

That's not how this one is being played. Yes, it's main purpose is for entertainment but it's also based on both CAL and Colin's books. I think it will sticky much to the known facts.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 04:58:PM
Nevill would have disarmed Jeremy, injured or not, he'd served in the war so I'm sure he'd have been used to surprises  and would also have landed him a punch or two----not forgetting that Nevill was a strong man.

 Confronting a woman, his own daughter would have been a different scenario as I honestly don't think that Nevill would have realised that she'd carry out what she must have threatened beforehand as the shots were indiscriminate even at close quarters------the type of shots which weren't afforded to someone who was used to firing a rifle.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 05:02:PM
Nevill would have disarmed Jeremy, injured or not, he'd served in the war so I'm sure he'd have been used to surprises  and would also have landed him a punch or two----not forgetting that Nevill was a strong man.

 Confronting a woman, his own daughter would have been a different scenario as I honestly don't think that Nevill would have realised that she'd carry out what she must have threatened beforehand as the shots were indiscriminate even at close quarters------the type of shots which weren't afforded to someone who was used to firing a rifle.

That's just wishful thinking Lookout.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on December 01, 2019, 05:03:PM
save energy? That's laughable. This is a real life scenario. Nevill would have been going at Jeremy like the clappers. We're not playing grand theft auto.....

Still waiting for your Sheila scenario.

Do you believe Nevill would have followed Bamber downstairs. After he had been shot 4 times?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 05:06:PM
Is anyone else getting a Service Unavailable error?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 06:49:PM
That's just wishful thinking Lookout.




Not really, it's my logic.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 01, 2019, 06:50:PM
Is anyone else getting a Service Unavailable error?




Yes---503.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2019, 06:57:PM



Yes---503.

Same here - seems to have been a server issue, lots of the photographs in the library are only showing a link and not the actual picture. I have informed the Host.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 01, 2019, 07:07:PM
Same here - seems to have been a server issue, lots of the photographs in the library are only showing a link and not the actual picture. I have informed the Host.
Same here Caroline, I thought it was my internet?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 01, 2019, 08:59:PM
Still waiting for your Sheila scenario.

Do you believe Nevill would have followed Bamber downstairs. After he had been shot 4 times?
do you believe he went to the bathroom and pressed triangle r1, r2 and circle then recharged...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 08:58:AM
I do hope they get the details right in this drama, and that they don't speculate too much. I watched a documentary where there were many inaccuracies, and that's just too annoying.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2019, 09:05:AM
I agree Kaldin as I too can see sensationalisms with a capital S and it's anything but !! There's bound to be to hold the interest of the people and if so I hope someone has the guts to point things out, especially those at CT who profess to have more information than most.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 09:17:AM
I agree Kaldin as I too can see sensationalisms with a capital S and it's anything but !! There's bound to be to hold the interest of the people and if so I hope someone has the guts to point things out, especially those at CT who profess to have more information than most.

I'm sure that most people watching it won't notice inaccuracies and speculation because they're not that familiar with the case, but for us who have researched the smallest details it will be obvious.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 07, 2019, 09:30:AM
I'm sure that most people watching it won't notice inaccuracies and speculation because they're not that familiar with the case, but for us who have researched the smallest details it will be obvious.
Thats going to be a big problem for posters, it’s impossible to put every detail in and please everyone, if I’m not mistaken it’s going to be more focused on the emotional side of events?  Posters are not understanding the difference between Drama and Documentary I’m afraid.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 10:07:AM
Thats going to be a big problem for posters, it’s impossible to put every detail in and please everyone, if I’m not mistaken it’s going to be more focused on the emotional side of events?  Posters are not understanding the difference between Drama and Documentary I’m afraid.

They don't need to put every detail in, but the details they do put in should be accurate, otherwise there might be some ranting on here.  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2019, 10:34:AM
They don't need to put every detail in, but the details they do put in should be accurate, otherwise there might be some ranting on here.  ;D




Hahahaha, there's bound to be ranting about something. I'll be scrutinising everything. These dramas are never 100% of how things happened because of elaborating here and there to stretch the series out as well as adding drama, although saying that as I've said before, they can't possibly cram everything into only 6x1 hour episodes so it'll be skimmed in parts and not as in-depth as it is in reality.

It could be that the " basics " will be played out where you're left with your own decision such as between the two siblings----of which I'll be quite happy about rather than a " he done-it " conclusion.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 10:49:AM



Hahahaha, there's bound to be ranting about something. I'll be scrutinising everything. These dramas are never 100% of how things happened because of elaborating here and there to stretch the series out as well as adding drama, although saying that as I've said before, they can't possibly cram everything into only 6x1 hour episodes so it'll be skimmed in parts and not as in-depth as it is in reality.

It could be that the " basics " will be played out where you're left with your own decision such as between the two siblings----of which I'll be quite happy about rather than a " he done-it " conclusion.

It'll probably be me ranting.  ;D I was watching one the other day where it showed Jeremy leaving the gun on the kitchen table!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2019, 11:55:AM
It'll probably be me ranting.  ;D I was watching one the other day where it showed Jeremy leaving the gun on the kitchen table!




These are exactly the inaccuracies that you mentioned and it's not right or fair to do this as it sets off an agenda before the damn thing gets started. From that alone you can smell the bias immediately. Is it any wonder there are so many MOJ's and mistakes made when this sort of fabrication is present ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 07, 2019, 12:05:PM



These are exactly the inaccuracies that you mentioned and it's not right or fair to do this as it sets off an agenda before the damn thing gets started. From that alone you can smell the bias immediately. Is it any wonder there are so many MOJ's and mistakes made when this sort of fabrication is present ?
Ive got you down to play Julie in my production, with Adam as Jeremy Lookout 🙈🙈🙈. Maybe we should do a cast list from the forum.  Obviously NGB would play Drake and me as the Star who rescues the plot Stan Jones Caroline and Jane would be my assistants 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 12:27:PM



These are exactly the inaccuracies that you mentioned and it's not right or fair to do this as it sets off an agenda before the damn thing gets started. From that alone you can smell the bias immediately. Is it any wonder there are so many MOJ's and mistakes made when this sort of fabrication is present ?

Yes. The Bible was also shown on the wrong side. There was a lot of speculation too about what time the family went to bed. It said they were in bed by 11. Nobody could possibly know that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 07, 2019, 12:40:PM
I agree Kaldin as I too can see sensationalisms with a capital S and it's anything but !! There's bound to be to hold the interest of the people and if so I hope someone has the guts to point things out, especially those at CT who profess to have more information than most.
They ought to let Anne help with production, she has got the finer detail, she has got it down to the second 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2019, 01:20:PM
I do hope they get the details right in this drama, and that they don't speculate too much. I watched a documentary where there were many inaccuracies, and that's just too annoying.

Have you read Carol Ann Lee's book?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2019, 01:21:PM
I agree Kaldin as I too can see sensationalisms with a capital S and it's anything but !! There's bound to be to hold the interest of the people and if so I hope someone has the guts to point things out, especially those at CT who profess to have more information than most.

The CT talk bollocks!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2019, 01:23:PM



Hahahaha, there's bound to be ranting about something. I'll be scrutinising everything. These dramas are never 100% of how things happened because of elaborating here and there to stretch the series out as well as adding drama, although saying that as I've said before, they can't possibly cram everything into only 6x1 hour episodes so it'll be skimmed in parts and not as in-depth as it is in reality.

It could be that the " basics " will be played out where you're left with your own decision such as between the two siblings----of which I'll be quite happy about rather than a " he done-it " conclusion.

WOW! There is more elaborating and inaccuracies on here than on ANY TV programme that I have seen!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2019, 01:25:PM
Yes. The Bible was also shown on the wrong side. There was a lot of speculation too about what time the family went to bed. It said they were in bed by 11. Nobody could possibly know that.

Perhaps that's because that was the time they generally went to bed.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 01:35:PM
Have you read Carol Ann Lee's book?

No I haven't.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 07, 2019, 01:36:PM
Perhaps that's because that was the time they generally went to bed.

Who said so? Who knew what time Sheila went to bed?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2019, 03:44:PM
WOW! There is more elaborating and inaccuracies on here than on ANY TV programme that I have seen!




It's because we haven't got the full "unadulterated" facts in front of us.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2019, 05:49:PM



It's because we haven't got the full "unadulterated" facts in front of us.

We have enough.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 12:07:PM
We have enough.





But not the originals, eh ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 01:44:PM
Who said so? Who knew what time Sheila went to bed?

She was going to bed when Pam called.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 01:45:PM




But not the originals, eh ?

Not that ole chestnut 😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 01:56:PM
Not that ole chestnut 😂




I'm afraid so, though can you explain why we haven't seen them ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 02:06:PM



I'm afraid so, though can you explain why we haven't seen them ?

We have.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 02:27:PM
We have.





Where ? Because something like that wouldn't escape me------not a lot does as a matter of fact.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 02:31:PM




Where ? Because something like that wouldn't escape me------not a lot does as a matter of fact.

Are you saying that all the documents on the forum are fake?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 02:38:PM
Are you saying that all the documents on the forum are fake?




I can't say until I've seen them can I ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 02:43:PM



I can't say until I've seen them can I ?

That’s the point, you have seen them. What you haven’t seen is probably not worth seeing.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 02:45:PM
That’s the point, you have seen them. What you haven’t seen is probably not worth seeing.





When were the original documents on here when it was a murder/suicide ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 02:49:PM




When were the original documents on here when it was a murder/suicide ?

Those won’t be release because their wS no trial and to even expect to see them is unreasonable.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 02:56:PM
Those won’t be release because their wS no trial and to even expect to see them is unreasonable.




Why didn't you say that instead of saying I  had missed seeing them ? ( like I was losing it ) Wishful thinking on your part maybe.
Anyway, I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want to see them. I'm interested even if no-one else is.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 03:08:PM



Why didn't you say that instead of saying I  had missed seeing them ? ( like I was losing it ) Wishful thinking on your part maybe.
Anyway, I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want to see them. I'm interested even if no-one else is.

We’ll try being specific in future  :P. Why should you be allowed to see documents that pertain to a suspect who ended up being a victim?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 03:17:PM
We’ll try being specific in future  :P. Why should you be allowed to see documents that pertain to a suspect who ended up being a victim?




C'mon, me be specific ?? Don't you ever think it might be you that isn't ? After 34 years I wouldn't have thought that documents were worth holding on to unless there was a hidden agenda to do so ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 08, 2019, 03:46:PM



C'mon, me be specific ?? Don't you ever think it might be you that isn't ? After 34 years I wouldn't have thought that documents were worth holding on to unless there was a hidden agenda to do so ?


I really do become frightfully confused about all these alleged hidden documents. IF they're hidden, how does anyone know what's in them, and if they KNOW what's in them there must have been a point at which they were public knowledge. Having said that, if they HAD been public knowledge what's the point of hiding them now? On the other hand IF there is anything incriminating, surely it stands to reason that such wouldn't be hidden. It simply would never have existed in the first place.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 04:05:PM

I really do become frightfully confused about all these alleged hidden documents. IF they're hidden, how does anyone know what's in them, and if they KNOW what's in them there must have been a point at which they were public knowledge. Having said that, if they HAD been public knowledge what's the point of hiding them now? On the other hand IF there is anything incriminating, surely it stands to reason that such wouldn't be hidden. It simply would never have existed in the first place.




 
How do we know what's in them ? That's easy. Did not " Taff "Jones make notes,etc at the beginning based on his findings ? If so, where are they ?
If there was anything incriminating  towards JB they would have been received with glee by SJ, and that goes for everything else that's hidden from view. It IS in the interests of the public to see/know about this.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 08, 2019, 04:17:PM



 
How do we know what's in them ? That's easy. Did not " Taff "Jones make notes,etc at the beginning based on his findings ? If so, where are they ?
If there was anything incriminating  towards JB they would have been received with glee by SJ, and that goes for everything else that's hidden from view. It IS in the interests of the public to see/know about this.


I wonder why you believe it to be "in the interests of the public to see/know about this". "T"J made an error of judgement based on information passed on from others based on what they'd learned from Jeremy. Once they'd looked at another possibility, all previous information was erroneous and of no further use. These things happen. There was a time when it was believed that the earth was flat -some idiots still believe, and even post about it- but I'll guarantee that very little, if any, documentation exists regarding it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 04:21:PM

I wonder why you believe it to be "in the interests of the public to see/know about this". "T"J made an error of judgement based on information passed on from others based on what they'd learned from Jeremy. Once they'd looked at another possibility, all previous information was erroneous and of no further use. These things happen. There was a time when it was believed that the earth was flat -some idiots still believe, and even post about it- but I'll guarantee that very little, if any, documentation exists regarding it.





Well it seems to be in the interests of the public to show a half-baked drama about the murders so what's the difference in something being out in the public arena and keeping documents of the same thing under lock and key ?

You and many others are HOPING that there are no more documents, you mean.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 08, 2019, 04:24:PM
She was going to bed when Pam called.

Just after 10 then ...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 04:26:PM
" Error of judgement ?" After 30 years service and 10 commendations ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 04:39:PM



C'mon, me be specific ?? Don't you ever think it might be you that isn't ? After 34 years I wouldn't have thought that documents were worth holding on to unless there was a hidden agenda to do so ?

You

It's because we haven't got the full "unadulterated" facts in front of us.

Me -  "we have enough"

You
But not the originals, eh ?

So where were you specific about which documents you were referring to?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 08, 2019, 04:42:PM
" Error of judgement ?" After 30 years service and 10 commendations ?



Very wrong to set people on a pedestal that high, Lookout. We're ALL capable of making errors of judgement.......................and yes, I'm including you in that ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 04:46:PM
Just after 10 then ...

Whatever
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 05:01:PM
You
Me -  "we have enough"

You
So where were you specific about which documents you were referring to?





There are times when you don't make yourself very clear at all  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 05:04:PM

There are times when you don't make yourself very clear at all  ::)

Probably - but  then I would deny it. There are times when I'm wrong too - but again, I wouldn't deny it.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 08, 2019, 05:11:PM
Whatever

So it wasn't 11 ...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 05:15:PM
Probably - but  then I would deny it. There are times when I'm wrong too - but again, I wouldn't deny it.




By talking in riddles is a form of denial.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 05:25:PM
So it wasn't 11 ...

It might have been - it was certainly around then for some of them!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 05:25:PM



By talking in riddles is a form of denial.

Then stop doing it!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 08, 2019, 05:27:PM
It might have been - it was certainly around then for some of them!

How do you know that?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 05:30:PM
How do you know that?

Common sense!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 08, 2019, 05:41:PM
Common sense!

So you don't actually know it then.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2019, 05:49:PM
So you don't actually know it then.

Dear god!  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 08, 2019, 06:06:PM
I'm getting to the stage now where I'm appalled by the fact that JB has been pleading to see for himself those documents that have remained hidden and would show further proof of his innocence, of that I'm 100% sure.
Too many MOJ's have happened because of " lost " / destroyed or withheld evidence. Surely after all this time it's JB's right to know. The longer EP hang on to them the more people are beginning to ask why.

I wonder if this drama will shed any light on them----if it's mentioned at all, or will it be something else that they're totally unaware of ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 12, 2019, 11:52:PM
First episode - ITV January 8th at 9pm.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 13, 2019, 06:44:AM
I'm getting to the stage now where I'm appalled by the fact that JB has been pleading to see for himself those documents that have remained hidden and would show further proof of his innocence, of that I'm 100% sure.
Too many MOJ's have happened because of " lost " / destroyed or withheld evidence. Surely after all this time it's JB's right to know. The longer EP hang on to them the more people are beginning to ask why.

I wonder if this drama will shed any light on them----if it's mentioned at all, or will it be something else that they're totally unaware of ?
Doubt it very much Lookout, that’s more a DOCUmentary (sorry for the pun) 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 12:23:PM
I think this drama is going to be left for people to draw their own conclusions rather than blaming any one particular person. The producer can't do it any other way really.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 12:27:PM
I think this drama is going to be left for people to draw their own conclusions rather than blaming any one particular person. The producer can't do it any other way really.

Lookout, the drama is based on Carol Ann Lee's book - have you read it? Have you seen the trailer?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 03:15:PM
Lookout, the drama is based on Carol Ann Lee's book - have you read it? Have you seen the trailer?




I've only read snippets of the book but not overall as yet. No I haven't seen the trailer .
Is the author a detective too ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 06:15:PM



I've only read snippets of the book but not overall as yet. No I haven't seen the trailer .
Is the author a detective too ?

You're acting like there was never an investigation, a trial and a conviction - how would any of that lead to the drama being 'open'? It was detectives that ran the investigation that lead to the conviction!

Are you a detective?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 06:39:PM
You're acting like there was never an investigation, a trial and a conviction - how would any of that lead to the drama being 'open'? It was detectives that ran the investigation that lead to the conviction!

Are you a detective?




I'm talking about the author and asked if she too was a detective.

Anyone can write a book after the event---the script/everything is already there but the truth is only as accurate as those who relayed it to her ? We don't know. We weren't there.We can only take a person's word for it when reading a book.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 06:42:PM
How many wrote books about Sutcliffe ? Dozens---and all different. Even the JB books are all different.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 06:54:PM



I'm talking about the author and asked if she too was a detective.

Anyone can write a book after the event---the script/everything is already there but the truth is only as accurate as those who relayed it to her ? We don't know. We weren't there.We can only take a person's word for it when reading a book.


I doubt that she relied simply on what she was told. People tend, if they're truthful, to call it as they see it. Rarely do people experience the same thing. As you so rightly say, anyone can write a book after the event. It's the best way to write one. If they wrote it before the event it would be a prophesy ;) :))

It's possible that the best crime writers become good at detecting. Patricia Cornwall spent a lot of time with a pathologist watching autopsies. Agatha Christie had an excellent knowledge of poisons. It may not be as easy as you think if the author wishes their work to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 06:58:PM



I'm talking about the author and asked if she too was a detective.

Anyone can write a book after the event---the script/everything is already there but the truth is only as accurate as those who relayed it to her ? We don't know. We weren't there.We can only take a person's word for it when reading a book.

Yes and I treated the question as it should be treated!

Anyone can write a book? Crack on then! See if you manage to interest a TV network in an innocent Jeremy Bamber - Good luck!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 07:00:PM
How many wrote books about Sutcliffe ? Dozens---and all different. Even the JB books are all different.

All different? Does he manage to escape on a magic carpet in any of them? Does anyone find him innocent - is the verdict LEFT OPEN?  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 07:02:PM

I doubt that she relied simply on what she was told. People tend, if they're truthful, to call it as they see it. Rarely do people experience the same thing. As you so rightly say, anyone can write a book after the event. It's the best way to write one. If they wrote it before the event it would be a prophesy ;) :))

Might help if Lookout had read the book before commenting. Lots of references and interviews with key players - she had access to more than we have here.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 07:18:PM
Might help if Lookout had read the book before commenting. Lots of references and interviews with key players - she had access to more than we have here.


"Anyone can write a book after the event"? I think we can accept that this statement isn't entirely accurate, but it could be that it was thrown in as a way of undermining it's authenticity?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 07:44:PM

"Anyone can write a book after the event"? I think we can accept that this statement isn't entirely accurate, but it could be that it was thrown in as a way of undermining it's authenticity?

I don't think CAL has anything to worry about there  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:05:PM
Sheila's mental health was never discussed at length at the trial. Until we learn what the notes contained I don't call this a fair system/trial.

David Challen whose mother was imprisoned for killing her husband said to me today, I quote " Quite important to recognise mental health under diminished responsibility if we're to learn anything ", unquote.

So, is there anywhere in CAL's book where she's studied mental health ?

In Sally's case where she'd spent 9 years in prison for murder her appeal brought about a case of manslaughter after it had been found that she'd been suffering mental health at the time of the murder in 2010. Sally had been released this year after the CoA quashed her appeal in light of new evidence re. her mental health.
 Psychological abuse or as Colin would have put it--a fkd-up brain which wasn't going to let happen to his children as he'd blamed June for the way Sheila was.

I wish Sally and her sons a happy and peaceful Christmas.x
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:16:PM
Sheila's mental health was never discussed at length at the trial. Until we learn what the notes contained I don't call this a fair system/trial.

David Challen whose mother was imprisoned for killing her husband said to me today, I quote " Quite important to recognise mental health under diminished responsibility if we're to learn anything ", unquote.

So, is there anywhere in CAL's book where she's studied mental health ?

In Sally's case where she'd spent 9 years in prison for murder her appeal brought about a case of manslaughter after it had been found that she'd been suffering mental health at the time of the murder in 2010. Sally had been released this year after the CoA quashed her appeal in light of new evidence re. her mental health.
 Psychological abuse or as Colin would have put it--a fkd-up brain which wasn't going to let happen to his children as he'd blamed June for the way Sheila was.

I wish Sally and her sons a happy and peaceful Christmas.x


No one had the right to go into Sheila's mental health. She was never accused of anything. It wasn't she who was on trial. It was Jeremy. Whatever Colin may have said, he's neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, so it only amounts to his opinion. If he'd stood up in court and given it, counsel would have said "Speculation".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:20:PM

No one had the right to go into Sheila's mental health. She was never accused of anything. It wasn't she who was on trial. It was Jeremy. Whatever Colin may have said, he's neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, so it only amounts to his opinion. If he'd stood up in court and given it, counsel would have said "Speculation".





People do have a right to see/read all that there is when it involves some innocent person spending a lifetime in prison. It's plain to see that the woman was positively unwell. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 16, 2019, 08:22:PM




People do have a right to see/read all that there is when it involves some innocent person spending a lifetime in prison. It's plain to see that the woman was positively unwell.
I think I read where Bamber stopped the police from looking at his medical records Lookout, not sure though?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:25:PM




People do have a right to see/read all that there is when it involves some innocent person spending a lifetime in prison. It's plain to see that the woman was positively unwell.


Like I said. Sheila was never on trial. IF they'd decided that she'd been responsible, surely there'd only have been an inquest?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:25:PM
Sheila's mental health was never discussed at length at the trial. Until we learn what the notes contained I don't call this a fair system/trial.

David Challen whose mother was imprisoned for killing her husband said to me today, I quote " Quite important to recognise mental health under diminished responsibility if we're to learn anything ", unquote.

So, is there anywhere in CAL's book where she's studied mental health ?

In Sally's case where she'd spent 9 years in prison for murder her appeal brought about a case of manslaughter after it had been found that she'd been suffering mental health at the time of the murder in 2010. Sally had been released this year after the CoA quashed her appeal in light of new evidence re. her mental health.
 Psychological abuse or as Colin would have put it--a fkd-up brain which wasn't going to let happen to his children as he'd blamed June for the way Sheila was.

I wish Sally and her sons a happy and peaceful Christmas.x

Since when did an author have to study mental health? Also Sheila wasn't on trial, she couldn't make it, someone shot her in the throat and tried to make it look like she killed her sons and her parents. I'm sure she'd have preferred to be there.

Pity you didn't have the same compassion for Sheila Caffell.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:26:PM

No one had the right to go into Sheila's mental health. She was never accused of anything. It wasn't she who was on trial. It was Jeremy. Whatever Colin may have said, he's neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, so it only amounts to his opinion. If he'd stood up in court and given it, counsel would have said "Speculation".

The defence had the right to go into it because their contention was that Sheila shot them all and herself.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:26:PM
I think I read where Bamber stopped the police from looking at his medical records Lookout, not sure though?

He did.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:26:PM
I think I read where Bamber stopped the police from looking at his medical records Lookout, not sure though?




I'm talking about Sheila's not his. Someone will have seen his anyway.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:27:PM
The defence had the right to go into it because their contention was that Sheila shot them all and herself.

Then they had the right to go through Bambers too!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:27:PM



I'm talking about Sheila's not his. Someone will have seen his anyway.

Which 'someone'?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:28:PM



I'm talking about Sheila's not his. Someone will have seen his anyway.


I thought he'd refused permission.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:30:PM
Then they had the right to go through Bambers too!

Who - the prosecution? They weren't claiming he was mentally ill though. They're hardly likely to claim that anyway.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 16, 2019, 08:30:PM



I'm talking about Sheila's not his. Someone will have seen his anyway.
I thought he refused?  Not sure but I don’t think they can, I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 16, 2019, 08:31:PM
Who - the prosecution? They weren't claiming he was mentally ill though. They're hardly likely to claim that anyway.
No his own psychiatrist did that
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 08:31:PM
Then they had the right to go through Bambers too!
it would be a waste of time. Jeremy was of sound mind
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:32:PM
Because someone refuses permission----in prison, what a laugh ! doesn't mean that someone wouldn't have a sneaky peek.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:33:PM
The defence had the right to go into it because their contention was that Sheila shot them all and herself.

If they had the right, then that's what they would have done.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:34:PM
If they had the right, then that's what they would have done.

Didn't they do that?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:35:PM
Someone would have to know if there were any allergies reported in case of illness and administering drugs/injections.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:35:PM
No his own psychiatrist did that

What psychiatrist, and what does that have to do with it?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:36:PM
Didn't they do that?

Her medical records were not released but they may have had access to part of them. Ask Lookout, she seems to thing there is a smoking gun hidden among them - pardon the pun!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 08:37:PM
What psychiatrist, and what does that have to do with it?
he has skim read CAL, " if there was ever a psychopath his name is Jeremy Bamber"
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:38:PM
Her medical records were not released but they may have had access to part of them. Ask Lookout, she seems to thing there is a smoking gun hidden among them - pardon the pun!

Not released? But there are statements from Dr Ferguson. Didn't the defence have access to those?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:39:PM
he has skim read CAL, " if there was ever a psychopath his name is Jeremy Bamber"

It's questionable whether or not being a psychopath is a mental illness anyway.  8)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 08:41:PM
Not released? But there are statements from Dr Ferguson. Didn't the defence have access to those?

According to the CT and Lookout - records are still hidden.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:41:PM
Not released? But there are statements from Dr Ferguson. Didn't the defence have access to those?





Ahem " because it wasn't Sheila who was on trial ".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:43:PM
According to the CT and Lookout - records are still hidden.




And according to EP they are !! 3 court orders given so what are they hiding ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:43:PM
Oh I see, this is some kind of game.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 16, 2019, 08:44:PM
What psychiatrist, and what does that have to do with it?
What do you mean what has that got to do with it? You said the prosecution wasn’t claiming he was mentally ill, I said his own defence did though?  Unless you meant something else?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:46:PM
What do you mean what has that got to do with it? You said the prosecution wasn’t claiming he was mentally ill, I said his own defence did though?  Unless you meant something else?

Why would his defence claim he was mentally ill? His defence wasn't diminished responsibility.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:48:PM
Oh I see, this is some kind of game.




Not a game Kaldin. I'm serious and damned annoyed that Sheila's records were never shown to the jury.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:49:PM
What do you mean what has that got to do with it? You said the prosecution wasn’t claiming he was mentally ill, I said his own defence did though?  Unless you meant something else?


Unless there's an underlying one, personality disorders per se, don't constitute mental illness.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:50:PM
Clearly, the defence would have referred to Sheila's mental health because their contention was that Sheila shot them in a psychotic state. She had no other motive.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 16, 2019, 08:50:PM
Why would his defence claim he was mentally ill? His defence wasn't diminished responsibility.
I honestly don’t know Kaldin, it’s been put up numerous times on here, I’m in Essex at moment with family and only on my iPhone so I can’t put a link up for you to read, if someone could help?  Some think it’s not real but Carol Ann Lee writes about it and several other, “if ever there was a psychopath it’s Jeremy Bamber”
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:51:PM



Not a game Kaldin. I'm serious and damned annoyed that Sheila's records were never shown to the jury.


Why would they be? It was Jeremy who stood accused of murder.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 08:51:PM
I honestly don’t know Kaldin, it’s been put up numerous times on here, I’m in Essex at moment with family and only on my iPhone so I can’t put a link up for you to read, if someone could help?  Some think it’s not real but Carol Ann Lee writes about it and several other, “if ever there was a psychopath it’s Jeremy Bamber”
bingo kaldin...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:52:PM
I honestly don’t know Kaldin, it’s been put up numerous times on here, I’m in Essex at moment with family and only on my iPhone so I can’t put a link up for you to read, if someone could help?  Some think it’s not real but Carol Ann Lee writes about it and several other, “if ever there was a psychopath it’s Jeremy Bamber”

OK. Thanks.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 16, 2019, 08:53:PM

Why would they be? It was Jeremy who stood accused of murder.

Because the defence was that Sheila had killed them and herself whilst in a psychotic state. Do you mean to say that this never came up?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 08:55:PM
Because the defence was that Sheila had killed them and herself whilst in a psychotic state. Do you mean to say that this never came up?


Did Dr Ferguson not give evidence?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 08:58:PM
I'm afraid " it was all about Jeremy " as if nobody else who'd existed was capable of killing. ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 09:01:PM
I'm afraid " it was all about Jeremy " as if nobody else who'd existed was capable of killing. ::)



Well, that's normally the case when only one person is charged with murder and they're not looking for anyone else.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on December 16, 2019, 09:01:PM
Clearly, the defence would have referred to Sheila's mental health because their contention was that Sheila shot them in a psychotic state. She had no other motive.

They did.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 09:09:PM
But there wasn't enough information given. Like her state of health on the night of the murders, or even from her discharge from hospital that same year. Her mental health had deteriorated, it's been said.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 09:13:PM
But there wasn't enough information given. Like her state of health on the night of the murders, or even from her discharge from hospital that same year. Her mental health had deteriorated, it's been said.

So why did Ferguson give evidence? What is it that you and the CT claim is being withheld?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 09:23:PM
But there wasn't enough information given. Like her state of health on the night of the murders, or even from her discharge from hospital that same year. Her mental health had deteriorated, it's been said.


I believe her to have been depressed which would have robbed her of mental energy. Added to that, her meds were slowing her down physically.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 09:28:PM
So why did Ferguson give evidence? What is it that you and the CT claim is being withheld?





Ferguson hadn't been aware of everything that had gone on with Sheila. He knew nothing of the note which was found inside the Bible--" Love one Another " and its reference about the mass killings in Guyana or the fact that Sheila would lose the children 100% to Colin,
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 09:32:PM




Ferguson hadn't been aware of everything that had gone on with Sheila. He knew nothing of the note which was found inside the Bible--" Love one Another " and its reference about the mass killings in Guyana or the fact that Sheila would lose the children 100% to Colin,

You insist that Sheila wrote it, but you have no proof. With all the fake stuff we've had thrown at us, there's actually no proof that it's real, and it's not a given that Colin would have gained any MORE care of the boys than he already had.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 09:32:PM

I believe her to have been depressed which would have robbed her of mental energy. Added to that, her meds were slowing her down physically.
but quite happy to travel to Essex to be with her family. From experience of people with mental illness, and on the medication Shelia was on they become withdrawn within themselves and don't want to be around people.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 09:36:PM
but quite happy to travel to Essex to be with her family. From experience of people with mental illness, and on the medication Shelia was on they become withdrawn within themselves and don't want to be around people.


You've clearly got different information than I. According to Colin, she sat in the car and barely a word passed between them on the entire journey. I believe you've just repeated what I've already said re her meds.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 09:36:PM
You insist that Sheila wrote it, but you have no proof. With all the fake stuff we've had thrown at us, there's actually no proof that it's real, and it's not a given that Colin would have gained any MORE care of the boys than he already had.




It must have been written by Sheila because EP destroyed it.

Didn't Colin write a letter to Nevill regarding 100% care of the boys ? Selective memory again ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 09:40:PM

You've clearly got different information than I. According to Colin, she sat in the car and barely a word passed between them on the entire journey. I believe you've just repeated what I've already said re her meds.
not the point I was making, if she was as heavily medicated and " out of it " as it's claimed to be. She wouldn't have, at least on the probability scale not wanted to make the journey, or have contact with anyone. She would have withdrew into herself...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 09:49:PM
not the point I was making, if she was as heavily medicated and " out of it " as it's claimed to be. She wouldn't have, at least on the probability scale not wanted to make the journey, or have contact with anyone. She would have withdrew into herself...


If she was as out of it as you claim her to be, she'd have been led to the car without argument or resistance. Strangely, I don't think she did want to go to the farm. She preferred to be in London. Her parents, quite naturally, wanted to see the boys before Colin took them on holiday.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 16, 2019, 10:09:PM

If she was as out of it as you claim her to be, she'd have been led to the car without argument or resistance. Strangely, I don't think she did want to go to the farm. She preferred to be in London. Her parents, quite naturally, wanted to see the boys before Colin took them on holiday.
do not cross words, your are claiming that Shelia couldn't commit the crime because she was too " out of it and lethargic" and in the next breath you are saying she had energy to travel to Essex etc, be around people for a family break...so which one is it??
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 10:11:PM
Sheila had attended two parties before she went to stay at WHF !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 10:12:PM
not the point I was making, if she was as heavily medicated and " out of it " as it's claimed to be. She wouldn't have, at least on the probability scale not wanted to make the journey, or have contact with anyone. She would have withdrew into herself...

According to Colin, June, Pam several others and Jeremy himself, she was distant and not willing or able to engage in much conversation - she hardly spoke a word on the journey to WHF.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2019, 10:13:PM
Not someone with severe depression would undertake.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 10:14:PM
Oh I see, this is some kind of game.

Is it? Lookout (and the CT) maintains that the medical records were not released - however, as you yourself have pointed out, Sheila's illness was discussed at trial.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 10:20:PM




Ferguson hadn't been aware of everything that had gone on with Sheila. He knew nothing of the note which was found inside the Bible--" Love one Another " and its reference about the mass killings in Guyana or the fact that Sheila would lose the children 100% to Colin,

The note inside the bible didn't mention anything of the sort. The note was given back to the family along with the bible. It said .....


‘Love one another. A determination always to act in the others’ best interest, whether we feel good or not, whether we like them or not. It is an act of will, commandment to obey. Be determined to be loving and kind to every person you meet whether you like them or not. Lord Jesus in Thy mercy, teach me to love for Thy name’s sake, help me to live and speak as a Christian, no matter what others may think.’

Source - Lee, Carol Ann. The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (p. 408).

The reason none of that was mentioned is because it's rubbish!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 10:22:PM
Sheila had attended two parties before she went to stay at WHF !

OMG! You know every well that the party the previous weekend was at Colin's house - she was withdrawn and had to be taken home!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2019, 10:23:PM
do not cross words, your are claiming that Shelia couldn't commit the crime because she was too " out of it and lethargic" and in the next breath you are saying she had energy to travel to Essex etc, be around people for a family break...so which one is it??

She was driven there by Colin!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 10:24:PM
do not cross words, your are claiming that Shelia couldn't commit the crime because she was too " out of it and lethargic" and in the next breath you are saying she had energy to travel to Essex etc, be around people for a family break...so which one is it??

She wasn't required to do more than sit in a car. Colin would have packed for the boy's.sitting in a car takes no more energy than breathing. Actually I never claimed she had the energy to travel. I said she travelled. It's not a question of either/or. It's both.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2019, 10:27:PM
OMG! You know every well that the party the previous weekend was at Colin's house - she was withdrawn and had to be taken home!

And we get accused of twisting things. Supporters twist the facts out of recognition!!!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 17, 2019, 06:51:AM
I watched a video where Barbara Wilson said she heard raised voices(or something like that) when she was on the phone to Nevill. Does that not support the argument that there was indeed some kind of disagreement going on?

I also read somewhere that Sheila was a bit upset about her haircut. Did she have her hair cut when she was in Essex?

I hope nobody asks me for links, but I can probably find them if I need to.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 17, 2019, 07:17:AM
Sheila had attended two parties before she went to stay at WHF !



How many times must you be told? How many witnesses to her lethargy will it take for you to take on board that whilst she may have been AT the party, she most definitely WASN'T partying.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 17, 2019, 07:46:AM
Not someone with severe depression would undertake.


Why is that Lookout? Are you saying that someone with "severe depression" would kick and scream, chain themselves to furniture, throw things to prevent being taken somewhere. Are you suggesting that someone in the grip of "severe depression" has the mental capacity to make decisions? Well, that's not the sort of "severe depression" I have understanding of.  Rather, what I know of it, it involves NO resistance of ANY description. All mental energy is sapped. There's no reaction to anything.

Forgive the observation, but I'd have expected more in depth knowledge and clearer understanding from someone who claims to have once nursed the mentally ill.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 17, 2019, 08:12:AM
I watched a video where Barbara Wilson said she heard raised voices(or something like that) when she was on the phone to Nevill. Does that not support the argument that there was indeed some kind of disagreement going on?

I also read somewhere that Sheila was a bit upset about her haircut. Did she have her hair cut when she was in Essex?

I hope nobody asks me for links, but I can probably find them if I need to.



I thought witness statements were the only things you accepted as evidential? BW doesn't mention raised voices in hers, does she?

Re the haircut. Firstly, making journey's to get haircuts isn't something I'd expect of anyone with severe depression. Secondly, it appears that Sheila's every move, during her time at WHF, has been thoroughly documented. No mention has been made of her having a hair appointment. Given how isolated is WHF, she'd have needed transport to get 'there' which would have been either Tollesbury, Tiptree, Maldon, or Witham. I imagine that whoever had been responsible for it would have been only too ready to have come forward, hairdressers being excellent barometers of clients' moods.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 17, 2019, 12:19:PM
I watched a video where Barbara Wilson said she heard raised voices(or something like that) when she was on the phone to Nevill. Does that not support the argument that there was indeed some kind of disagreement going on?

I also read somewhere that Sheila was a bit upset about her haircut. Did she have her hair cut when she was in Essex?

I hope nobody asks me for links, but I can probably find them if I need to.

I have never heard her say she heard raised voices, just that Nevill was short with her and that she suspected he'd had an argument with someone. No it doesn't support Jeremy's tale given that when June spoke to Pam, she was more concerned abut Sheila being withdrawn than anything else and Sheila couldn't even be bothered to talk.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 17, 2019, 05:53:PM
I didn't say I only accepted witness statements. I saw Barbara Wilson speaking in a video - it wasn't hearsay. I'll see if I can locate the video.

I'm sure I read about a hair cut somewhere - I'll do some research.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 17, 2019, 06:36:PM
I said that this drama was bad timing. Mark Newby has written to the producer about the case being "active " at present with the ongoing process of returning it to the COA.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 17, 2019, 06:38:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpFfIUCgVok

21.30. I assume that's the real Barbara Wilson?

Quote
Sandra Elston who saw Sheila Caffell on 31 July 1985 said the deceased appeared well and her only concern was about a poor haircut she had recently had.

That's from the 2002 appeal document, so pretty reliable IMO. It seems the haircut was in July, so not done in Essex.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 17, 2019, 06:47:PM
I said that this drama was bad timing. Mark Newby has written to the producer about the case being "active " at present with the ongoing process of returning it to the COA.





JB had suggested that the drama be delayed pending the High Court case.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 17, 2019, 06:50:PM




JB had suggested that the drama be delayed pending the High Court case.


WHAT High Court case?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 17, 2019, 06:54:PM

WHAT High Court case?




Well obviously Mark Newby knows more than us ! Why shouldn't he ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 17, 2019, 07:00:PM



Well obviously Mark Newby knows more than us ! Why shouldn't he ?


Probably, but it doesn't mean to say that a High Court case is in the offing.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 17, 2019, 07:03:PM




JB had suggested that the drama be delayed pending the High Court case.

Sounds like delay tactics to me. Rather hilarious that they have stated "such a drama series by its nature will place a fictitious narrative in the public domain which may be counter productive to the administration of justice in due course". It's OK to change the who argument about the timings though - guess the wind changed! ITV won't fall for this.

https://www.qualitysolicitors.com//jordans/news/2019/12/jeremy-bamber-itv-drama-statement
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 17, 2019, 07:04:PM




JB had suggested that the drama be delayed pending the High Court case.
Why does he say it’s going to high court
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 17, 2019, 07:07:PM
Sounds like delay tactics to me. Rather hilarious that they have stated "such a drama series by its nature will place a fictitious narrative in the public domain which may be counter productive to the administration of justice in due course". It's OK to change the who argument about the timings though - guess the wind changed! ITV won't fall for this.

https://www.qualitysolicitors.com//jordans/news/2019/12/jeremy-bamber-itv-drama-statement
Thanks Caroline just read it
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 17, 2019, 07:08:PM
Why does he say it’s going to high court

To try and get documents released.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 12:54:PM
TV guides full of the new drama series .....
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 28, 2019, 01:44:PM
It'll be lost in sensationalization.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 01:49:PM
It'll be lost in sensationalization.


You hope.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 28, 2019, 01:51:PM

You hope.





On the contrary I'll be damned annoyed.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 28, 2019, 01:52:PM
It'll be lost in sensationalization.
yes when they find out theres no further documents :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 28, 2019, 01:56:PM
yes when they find out theres no further documents :)





Then they'll be deceived won't they ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 02:25:PM




On the contrary I'll be damned annoyed.


Go on with you! You know you'll be itching for something to criticize ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 02:33:PM
It'll be lost in sensationalization.

Nothing more sensationalist than the claims made here!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 02:44:PM
Because of who is involved in the drama and the fact that legally jeremy is a guilty man , I think it will be pretty safe to say the drama will be based on just how the case “ turned” during the investigation. In the interests of debate it might be quite interesting on both sides to discuss anything the programme misses that has been seen on here from documents or statements  either way innocent or guilty . After all none of us know 100% yet , and if we did why would we be posting on a forum still after all these years? I am still surprised Colin would want this programme to happen tbh . I thought his book was his closure and at the moment even though obviously there has been an application to the High court , things have not changed . Jeremy is guilty and Jeremy is in jail for life . So why would there be interest in the case now?

If there can be a sensible grown up discussion on here based on documents and statements After the programme then it could be interesting .

Did anyone catch the itv trailer where I think one of the members of the constabulary described the case as something like a scab that appears and needs picking ? I keep meaning to find it . Not very professional .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 28, 2019, 02:47:PM

Go on with you! You know you'll be itching for something to criticize ;D ;D




Oh I'll criticise as will yourself be doing but I'll be more interested in what isn't said than what is.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 28, 2019, 03:00:PM
Because of who is involved in the drama and the fact that legally jeremy is a guilty man , I think it will be pretty safe to say the drama will be based on just how the case “ turned” during the investigation. In the interests of debate it might be quite interesting on both sides to discuss anything the programme misses that has been seen on here from documents or statements  either way innocent or guilty . After all none of us know 100% yet , and if we did why would we be posting on a forum still after all these years? I am still surprised Colin would want this programme to happen tbh . I thought his book was his closure and at the moment even though obviously there has been an application to the High court , things have not changed . Jeremy is guilty and Jeremy is in jail for life . So why would there be interest in the case now?

If there can be a sensible grown up discussion on here based on documents and statements After the programme then it could be interesting .

Did anyone catch the itv trailer where I think one of the members of the constabulary described the case as something like a scab that appears and needs picking ? I keep meaning to find it . Not very professional .


.


Well put Jan and no, they weren't very professional anyway and didn't exert their brains in any way
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 03:04:PM



Oh I'll criticise as will yourself be doing but I'll be more interested in what isn't said than what is.


"More" is relative. I accept that they're not going to include every little nuance.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 03:37:PM
Because of who is involved in the drama and the fact that legally jeremy is a guilty man , I think it will be pretty safe to say the drama will be based on just how the case “ turned” during the investigation. In the interests of debate it might be quite interesting on both sides to discuss anything the programme misses that has been seen on here from documents or statements  either way innocent or guilty . After all none of us know 100% yet , and if we did why would we be posting on a forum still after all these years? I am still surprised Colin would want this programme to happen tbh . I thought his book was his closure and at the moment even though obviously there has been an application to the High court , things have not changed . Jeremy is guilty and Jeremy is in jail for life . So why would there be interest in the case now?

If there can be a sensible grown up discussion on here based on documents and statements After the programme then it could be interesting .

Did anyone catch the itv trailer where I think one of the members of the constabulary described the case as something like a scab that appears and needs picking ? I keep meaning to find it . Not very professional .


It could make for a really interesting debate.

I didn't catch that part of the trailer. I'm not a regular ITV watcher. I agree the comment wasn't entirely professional. However, I'm willing to bet that it's gone down in the annals of policing as a "How Not To......" and if they get it wrong now, it's probably referred to as "having done a Bamber".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 28, 2019, 03:39:PM
Because of who is involved in the drama and the fact that legally jeremy is a guilty man , I think it will be pretty safe to say the drama will be based on just how the case “ turned” during the investigation. In the interests of debate it might be quite interesting on both sides to discuss anything the programme misses that has been seen on here from documents or statements  either way innocent or guilty . After all none of us know 100% yet , and if we did why would we be posting on a forum still after all these years? I am still surprised Colin would want this programme to happen tbh . I thought his book was his closure and at the moment even though obviously there has been an application to the High court , things have not changed . Jeremy is guilty and Jeremy is in jail for life . So why would there be interest in the case now?

If there can be a sensible grown up discussion on here based on documents and statements After the programme then it could be interesting .

Did anyone catch the itv trailer where I think one of the members of the constabulary described the case as something like a scab that appears and needs picking ? I keep meaning to find it . Not very professional .
which application are you talking about jan
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 04:02:PM
Because of who is involved in the drama and the fact that legally jeremy is a guilty man , I think it will be pretty safe to say the drama will be based on just how the case “ turned” during the investigation. In the interests of debate it might be quite interesting on both sides to discuss anything the programme misses that has been seen on here from documents or statements  either way innocent or guilty . After all none of us know 100% yet , and if we did why would we be posting on a forum still after all these years? I am still surprised Colin would want this programme to happen tbh . I thought his book was his closure and at the moment even though obviously there has been an application to the High court , things have not changed . Jeremy is guilty and Jeremy is in jail for life . So why would there be interest in the case now?

If there can be a sensible grown up discussion on here based on documents and statements After the programme then it could be interesting .

Did anyone catch the itv trailer where I think one of the members of the constabulary described the case as something like a scab that appears and needs picking ? I keep meaning to find it . Not very professional .

There are lots of people who don't even know who Jeremy Bamber is - that's why there is an interest and it is an interesting case and your I think you are correct in saying that the drama is about how the case turned from Sheila to Jeremy - there will be no whodunit type scenario. Yes, it would be nice if there could be an adult intelligent debate but that won't happen.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 28, 2019, 04:04:PM
which application are you talking about jan
I think his lawyer has asked the high court about non disclosure evidence Sami?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 04:17:PM
which application are you talking about jan

Judicial review proceedings issued against DPP.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 04:19:PM
There are lots of people who don't even know who Jeremy Bamber is - that's why there is an interest and it is an interesting case and your I think you are correct in saying that the drama is about how the case turned from Sheila to Jeremy - there will be no whodunit type scenario. Yes, it would be nice if there could be an adult intelligent debate but that won't happen.

We could try . Any comments not based on a “ source” could be dismissed (:

Mind you some posters might have to be reminded what a valid source is.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 04:30:PM
We could try . Any comments not based on a “ source” could be dismissed (:

Mind you some posters might have to be reminded what a valid source is.

I'd be down for trying but wouldn't tolerate anything snide.

I agree about your point on sources  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 06:32:PM
I have just read what Colin said about the drama . And he accuses jeremy of accusing Sheila of all sorts of things . And he said the sad thing was that sheila was happy at the time of the murders and in a good place. However when you read his first statement he admits sheila had been violent in the past talks about her breakdowns and also his description of her the night before and on the drive to the farm does not portray her as being happy and in a good place.

Now I appreciate he must have been in shock at the time and I dont think any of us could appreciate what he went through with the press as well . It must have been horrendous . But in his first statement he does not seem to defend sheila at all . He seems to accept what the police have told him . Which you would do in the circumstances.

I have always said whatever the truth the whole case is a tragedy and of course he is free to try and put his side of the story . But I am surprised in a way because we have all heard about the appeals which seem to amount to nothing . I just wonder why now ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 28, 2019, 06:36:PM
I have just read what Colin said about the drama . And he accuses jeremy of accusing Sheila of all sorts of things . And he said the sad thing was that sheila was happy at the time of the murders and in a good place. However when you read his first statement he admits sheila had been violent in the past talks about her breakdowns and also his description of her the night before and on the drive to the farm does not portray her as being happy and in a good place.

Now I appreciate he must have been in shock at the time and I dont think any of us could appreciate what he went through with the press as well . It must have been horrendous . But in his first statement he does not seem to defend sheila at all . He seems to accept what the police have told him . Which you would do in the circumstances.

I have always said whatever the truth the whole case is a tragedy and of course he is free to try and put his side of the story . But I am surprised in a way because we have all heard about the appeals which seem to amount to nothing . I just wonder why now ?
why now,not sure what you mean
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 28, 2019, 06:38:PM
I have just read what Colin said about the drama . And he accuses jeremy of accusing Sheila of all sorts of things . And he said the sad thing was that sheila was happy at the time of the murders and in a good place. However when you read his first statement he admits sheila had been violent in the past talks about her breakdowns and also his description of her the night before and on the drive to the farm does not portray her as being happy and in a good place.

Now I appreciate he must have been in shock at the time and I dont think any of us could appreciate what he went through with the press as well . It must have been horrendous . But in his first statement he does not seem to defend sheila at all . He seems to accept what the police have told him . Which you would do in the circumstances.

I have always said whatever the truth the whole case is a tragedy and of course he is free to try and put his side of the story . But I am surprised in a way because we have all heard about the appeals which seem to amount to nothing . I just wonder why now ?

Sheila may well have felt better at that time, but if there was a conversation about the twins that could have set her right back. He did say that she didn't speak on the way to the farm.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 06:48:PM
I have just read what Colin said about the drama . And he accuses jeremy of accusing Sheila of all sorts of things . And he said the sad thing was that sheila was happy at the time of the murders and in a good place. However when you read his first statement he admits sheila had been violent in the past talks about her breakdowns and also his description of her the night before and on the drive to the farm does not portray her as being happy and in a good place.

Now I appreciate he must have been in shock at the time and I dont think any of us could appreciate what he went through with the press as well . It must have been horrendous . But in his first statement he does not seem to defend sheila at all . He seems to accept what the police have told him . Which you would do in the circumstances.

I have always said whatever the truth the whole case is a tragedy and of course he is free to try and put his side of the story . But I am surprised in a way because we have all heard about the appeals which seem to amount to nothing . I just wonder why now ?


Generally speaking, none of us are 100% anything 100% of the time. Whilst it may well be true that Sheila was in a better place than she'd previously been, he was also aware that WHF was one of her least favourite places to be. It's understandable then, that she may not have been looking forward to it. Colin also had, on his person, a letter he planned to give to Nevill, but changed his mind. He won't have given more than a basic outline in what he's said about the drama so naturally some -many- things are likely to have been left out.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 06:50:PM

Generally speaking, none of us are 100% anything 100% of the time. Whilst it may well be true that Sheila was in a better place than she'd previously been, he was also aware that WHF was one of her least favourite places to be. It's understandable then, that she may not have been looking forward to it. Colin also had, on his person, a letter he planned to give to Nevill, but changed his mind. He won't have given more than a basic outline in what he's said about the drama so naturally some -many- things are likely to have been left out.

Errrm  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 06:55:PM

Generally speaking, none of us are 100% anything 100% of the time. Whilst it may well be true that Sheila was in a better place than she'd previously been, he was also aware that WHF was one of her least favourite places to be. It's understandable then, that she may not have been looking forward to it. Colin also had, on his person, a letter he planned to give to Nevill, but changed his mind. He won't have given more than a basic outline in what he's said about the drama so naturally some -many- things are likely to have been left out.

He is quite specific that he wants to portray the truth of what happened . So it will be interesting to see if he is portrayed as believing she was capable of the murders. After all it was the family and not him that were arguing with the police about their rushed conclusion. If I was him I would be furious with EP as he could have well not have been convicted. And I still say that today the silencer would not have been admitted as evidence for a start .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 28, 2019, 07:02:PM
He is quite specific that he wants to portray the truth of what happened . So it will be interesting to see if he is portrayed as believing she was capable of the murders. After all it was the family and not him that were arguing with the police about their rushed conclusion. If I was him I would be furious with EP as he could have well not have been convicted. And I still say that today the silencer would not have been admitted as evidence for a start .


It will, indeed, be interesting. Also interesting to read will be interpretations of it from both sides. I have no doubts that, during their relationship, Sheila may have threatened suicide, not perhaps with the intention of carrying it out, but as a way of making him notice her and care for her. I get that he'd have believed what he first heard from police. He may even have thought she's done it to punish him for taking her to a place she didn't want to be.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 28, 2019, 09:43:PM
I'd be down for trying but wouldn't tolerate anything snide.

I agree about your point on sources  ;D
😂😂😂🙈🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 10:16:PM
He is quite specific that he wants to portray the truth of what happened . So it will be interesting to see if he is portrayed as believing she was capable of the murders. After all it was the family and not him that were arguing with the police about their rushed conclusion. If I was him I would be furious with EP as he could have well not have been convicted. And I still say that today the silencer would not have been admitted as evidence for a start .

It will be as his book dictates - it's based on extracts from his book. There won't be any surprises.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 10:19:PM
It will be as his book dictates - it's based on extracts from his book. There won't be any surprises.

I agree . It will be the truth as he sees it . And he had a horrific time from the press as far as I remember .

I hope he gets some peace from his involvement in the programme  whatever the truth .



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 10:25:PM
I agree . It will be the truth as he sees it . And he had a horrific time from the press as far as I remember .

I hope he gets some peace from his involvement in the programme  whatever the truth .

Me too.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 10:28:PM
Me too.

It’s going to be hard as a drama though as it will still annoy me if there are basic errors in the plot.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 28, 2019, 10:28:PM
I agree . It will be the truth as he sees it . And he had a horrific time from the press as far as I remember .

I hope he gets some peace from his involvement in the programme  whatever the truth .
Me too Jan, I don’t think anyone can deny him that
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 10:49:PM
It’s going to be hard as a drama though as it will still annoy me if there are basic errors in the plot.

Well, there are errors on this forum that keep getting regurgitated.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 28, 2019, 10:52:PM
Well, there are errors on this forum that keep getting regurgitated.

Yep and the polls

It’s like groundhog day
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2019, 10:56:PM
Yep and the polls

It’s like groundhog day

What I meant was, there may be things that we accept here that are actually incorrect.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 29, 2019, 07:08:AM
It’s going to be hard as a drama though as it will still annoy me if there are basic errors in the plot.

Me too! I'm looking forward to it, but if they get anything wrong I'll be shouting at the telly. I think I'll watch it on my own with no one else around.  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:23:AM
Me too! I'm looking forward to it, but if they get anything wrong I'll be shouting at the telly. I think I'll watch it on my own with no one else around.  ;D





I'm wondering how many times I say " that's a lie ".  :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 12:24:PM




I'm wondering how many times I say " that's a lie ".  :)) :)) :))

Bet it's not as often as I do on here!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 12:53:PM
Bet it's not as often as I do on here!





Well that's because of your own personal skewed views against suggestions of others. ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 01:07:PM




Well that's because of your own personal skewed views against suggestions of others. ;D


Suggestions I can cope with, they can be discussed. It's those hard and fast claims and sweeping statements which leave no manoeuvre room that I find difficult.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 01:10:PM

Suggestions I can cope with, they can be discussed. It's those hard and fast claims and sweeping statements which leave no manoeuvre room that I find difficult.




Because you're baffled, that's why.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 29, 2019, 01:10:PM
Bet it's not as often as I do on here!
😂😂😂🙈🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 01:23:PM




Well that's because of your own personal skewed views against suggestions of others. ;D

No, if it smells like BS, it generally is.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 29, 2019, 01:26:PM
There are many sweeping statements on here, and they're not all from Bamber defenders ...
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 01:32:PM



Because you're baffled, that's why.


Certainly. I didn't think those who claim intelligence still believed in fairy tales.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 01:35:PM

Certainly. I didn't think those who claim intelligence still believed in fairy tales.





I don't even believe in your" truth" let alone fairy tales.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 01:36:PM




I don't even believe in your" truth" let alone fairy tales.

Or even 'the' truth.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 01:37:PM
No, if it smells like BS, it generally is.





 ::) If all else fails use some insults---typical.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 01:39:PM




 ::) If all else fails use some insults---typical.

Don't try and pretend you're not familiar with insults yourself Lookout. You've done the very same thig to Jane 'your' truth?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 01:40:PM
Don't try and pretend you're not familiar with insults yourself Lookout. You've done the very same thig to Jane 'your' truth?





Oh , go back to bed and stop being so tetchy.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 01:47:PM




Oh , go back to bed and stop being so tetchy.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on December 29, 2019, 08:53:PM
He is quite specific that he wants to portray the truth of what happened . So it will be interesting to see if he is portrayed as believing she was capable of the murders. After all it was the family and not him that were arguing with the police about their rushed conclusion. If I was him I would be furious with EP as he could have well not have been convicted. And I still say that today the silencer would not have been admitted as evidence for a start .

i think over time he has been persuaded of jeremys guilt and in the shock had forgotten what he had actually said at the time. shiela certainly had issues that should be taken into consideration and not just dismissed because it suits the guilters argument. the fact is shiela was a poorly young woman, was supposedly odd on the telephone that evening, was vacant etc .

these things have to be take. into consideration as does jbs behaviour
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 09:03:PM
i think over time he has been persuaded of jeremys guilt and in the shock had forgotten what he had actually said at the time. shiela certainly had issues that should be taken into consideration and not just dismissed because it suits the guilters argument. the fact is shiela was a poorly young woman, was supposedly odd on the telephone that evening, was vacant etc .

these things have to be take. into consideration as does jbs behaviour

I have take all of those things into consideration in the past - but sheila was on her meds and not showing any sign of psychosis around the time of the murders.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 09:05:PM




 ::) If all else fails use some insults---typical.



Back in your usual role of "poor me", Lookout?---Typical!! If you can't take it, don't give it!!!!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 29, 2019, 09:07:PM
I have take all of those things into consideration in the past - but sheila was on her meds and not showing any sign of psychosis around the time of the murders.

the people around her were not medical experts were they though ? who is making this judgement that she was not showing any sign? and she was described and being vacant by CC . not participating in conversations by Jeremy .

When was the last time she saw her doctor ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:10:PM


Back in your usual role of "poor me", Lookout?---Typical!! If you can't take it, don't give it!!!!





Cruisin' for a bruisin' are we ? How pathetic are you ? Get off the booze you silly woman !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on December 29, 2019, 09:14:PM
I have take all of those things into consideration in the past - but sheila was on her meds and not showing any sign of psychosis around the time of the murders.

so what do you attribute her behaviour to then caroline. she clearly wasn’t right was she
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 09:17:PM




Cruisin' for a bruisin' are we ? How pathetic are you ? Get off the booze you silly woman !


You're talking to the wrong person, Lookout. Jackie's not posting and you should put the top back on that whiskey. Me? I haven't had a drop.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:19:PM

You're talking to the wrong person, Lookout. Jackie's not posting and you should put the top back on that whiskey. Me? I haven't had a drop.




Teetotal here.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 09:21:PM



Teetotal here.


What about that dram of the good stuff you and Sami share a liking for?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 29, 2019, 09:22:PM

What about that dram of the good stuff you and Sami share a liking for?
chivers regal ,jane :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:23:PM

What about that dram of the good stuff you and Sami share a liking for?




That was a couple of years ago--Chivas Regal.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 29, 2019, 09:25:PM
ive spelt it wrong,could do with a couple of drams tonight :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 09:26:PM
chivers regal ,jane :))



Ooh! The REALLY good stuff, eh :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 29, 2019, 09:28:PM


Ooh! The REALLY good stuff, eh :)) :))
yes gets one pissed real quick.(it does to me ) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2019, 09:30:PM
yes gets one pissed real quick.(it does to me ) :)) :))


I stick to white wine. I know my limits ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 09:35:PM
the people around her were not medical experts were they though ? who is making this judgement that she was not showing any sign? and she was described and being vacant by CC . not participating in conversations by Jeremy .

When was the last time she saw her doctor ?

Do you need to be an expert to know that someone you know is vacant? Colin knew her well and was best placed to know when she was vacant.

Who is making the judgement that she was psychotic? Members here do that regularly.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:40:PM
Do you need to be an expert to know that someone you know is vacant? Colin knew her well and was best placed to know when she was vacant.

Who is making the judgement that she was psychotic? Members here do that regularly.





You don't have to be psychotic to commit murder.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 29, 2019, 09:41:PM




You don't have to be psychotic to commit murder.
good point jb is the proof of that
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:48:PM
good point jb is the proof of that





Or a psychopath.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 09:50:PM




You don't have to be psychotic to commit murder.

Who said you did?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 29, 2019, 09:54:PM
Who said you did?





Just sayin'.      Can't I speak now ? ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 29, 2019, 10:30:PM
Do you need to be an expert to know that someone you know is vacant? Colin knew her well and was best placed to know when she was vacant.

Who is making the judgement that she was psychotic? Members here do that regularly.

what I was saying was her dr said she could have regressed and had a psychotic episode . you said she was not psychotic at the time of the murders - I was asking what you were basing that on ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 29, 2019, 10:45:PM
what I was saying was her dr said she could have regressed and had a psychotic episode . you said she was not psychotic at the time of the murders - I was asking what you were basing that on ?

I tried to send you a PM but was unable. I can answer your question but not on the forum.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 11:09:AM
I tried to send you a PM but was unable. I can answer your question but not on the forum.

sorry not doing pm as was stung by that before .

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 11:45:AM
Just like to say I have a feeling there will be a lot of new visitors finding this page after the "Drama " is aired . So it would be good if we kept the posts civil and not personal ? And like I said we can put errors right by using the documents in the library whatever your point of view is .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 11:56:AM
Should be interesting Jan. I rely a lot on my memory over certain things, those which stand out more. I'll just have to keep an eye on my anxiety levels. ;D-----when I know things aren't right. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 12:16:PM
Just like to say I have a feeling there will be a lot of new visitors finding this page after the "Drama " is aired . So it would be good if we kept the posts civil and not personal ? And like I said we can put errors right by using the documents in the library whatever your point of view is .

That's really not going to happen with Jackie - is it?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 12:20:PM
That's really not going to happen with Jackie - is it?





What ?? It's not going to happen with anyone, including myself because I happen to be honest.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 12:29:PM




What ?? It's not going to happen with anyone, including myself because I happen to be honest.

So you'll be as rude as her?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 12:33:PM
So you'll be as rude as her?





You bet, if it means keeping up with others and their snide remarks. I'm not one to sit back and neither are you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 12:35:PM




You bet, if it means keeping up with others and their snide remarks. I'm not one to sit back and neither are you.

There you go Jan - on a losing battle.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 12:35:PM
Let's not be two-faced about this as everyone will put their six penn'orth in whether it offends or not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 12:36:PM
I tried ):

cant you just ignore personal remarks and carry on with the discussion. Half the time its just distraction . No one is going to change other posters minds so its a waste of time really . Surely the point of the forum is  to study documents /photos /statements for information . 


Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 12:38:PM
I know full well it's a distraction----I've realised that for years Jan.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 12:40:PM
There you go Jan - on a losing battle.





 ::) You've even got the poster wrong------too much in a hurry to chide.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 12:44:PM




 ::) You've even got the poster wrong------too much in a hurry to chide.

No idea what you're talking about Lookout - no matter .....

Stephen Graham is on Graham Norton on New Years Eve - I'm sure he'll be talking about his role in WHF.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on December 30, 2019, 12:46:PM
That's really not going to happen with Jackie - is it?

You mean with you and your explanation marks.

If you can’t answer a good question from Kaldin you put him on ignore

Pathetic
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 12:49:PM
You mean with you and your explanation marks.

If you can’t answer a good question from Kaldin you put him on ignore

Pathetic

He's on ignore because he repeats himself - don't mind him as a person but we'll never agree.

What's an 'explanation mark'?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:03:PM
No idea what you're talking about Lookout - no matter .....

Stephen Graham is on Graham Norton on New Years Eve - I'm sure he'll be talking about his role in WHF.





One of the best actors to come out of Liverpool.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 01:04:PM
He's on ignore because he repeats himself - don't mind him as a person but we'll never agree.

What's an 'explanation mark'?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
He’s quite a nice chap actually Caroline
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:09:PM
Most are nice on here and not given a chance if their views differ-----not fair to be so biased, it's a discussion forum not one that if you don't like a person's posts, they're ignored, that's mean and childish.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 01:17:PM
He’s quite a nice chap actually Caroline

I don't have a problem with him but we'll never agree so what's the point? I seem to wind him up  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 01:21:PM
Most are nice on here and not given a chance if their views differ-----not fair to be so biased, it's a discussion forum not one that if you don't like a person's posts, they're ignored, that's mean and childish.

The ignore button is there to prevent arguments - some would do better if they used it more! You are using this as an excuse to have a dig and that's OK, I don't really care but it does make you a hypocrite!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:22:PM
I don't have a problem with him but we'll never agree so what's the point? I seem to wind him up  ;D ;D ;D





Why should you/he agree ?  ::) Where's the logic ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 01:29:PM




Why should you/he agree ?  ::) Where's the logic ?

It end up in an argument, then you lot join in - to be honest, I can't be arsed.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 01:33:PM
Most are nice on here and not given a chance if their views differ-----not fair to be so biased, it's a discussion forum not one that if you don't like a person's posts, they're ignored, that's mean and childish.
I don't mind other members stating their views as long as they do not contain a host of expletives and call people by names other than how they have chosen to be known on this site. Some newcomers have broken both precepts.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:34:PM
It end up in an argument, then you lot join in - to be honest, I can't be arsed.






On the contrary Caroline----just stop and pause, take Jackie's posts for instance, she had every guilter doing her down, then Steve came along giving his two penn'orth. It's not " us lot " who's joining in is it ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 30, 2019, 01:35:PM
Most are nice on here and not given a chance if their views differ-----not fair to be so biased, it's a discussion forum not one that if you don't like a person's posts, they're ignored, that's mean and childish.
good point kaldin should know better
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 01:36:PM





On the contrary Caroline----just stop and pause, take Jackie's posts for instance, she had every guilter doing her down, then Steve came along giving his two penn'orth. It's not " us lot " who's joining in is it ?
But lookout if those who believe Jeremy Bamber to be innocent come up with some credible arguments we would respond in kind.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 01:39:PM
Anyway I've decided not to watch the new drama next month. It will exculpate me from the charge of voyeurism and I've read all the literature on the case already. I suppose for the novices it will be a starting point.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:40:PM
Just calm yourself down, it's not a competition. There's only Jan and myself on the innocent side, I think, besides Jackie so I see no problem. There's you, Jane, Sami, RJ and Steve ( heavyweights so to speak ) but it doesn't bother me so why do 2 or 3 bother you ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 01:40:PM
Just calm yourself down, it's not a competition. There's only Jan and myself on the innocent side, I think, besides Jackie so I see no problem. There's you, Jane, Sami, RJ and Steve ( heavyweights so to speak ) but it doesn't bother me so why do 2 or 3 bother you ?
You also have Mike (has he lost interest?) and David1819.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:44:PM
Anyway I've decided not to watch the new drama next month. It will exculpate me from the charge of voyeurism and I've read all the literature on the case already. I suppose for the novices it will be a starting point.





I can also take it or leave it. If something's advertised to death it usually turns out to be a flop.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 01:50:PM




I can also take it or leave it. If something's advertised to death it usually turns out to be a flop.
"
I don't think it will be a flop - but the fact that is a  "drama" gives licence to change material facts if necessary .

It is definitely re-enforcing his guilt ( not that is necessary for obvious reasons ) because the actor was asked if he would talk to Jeremy to aid with the characterisation and he said no - because he is a different person now and he says he is innocent. So i do think it will just be about the twists and turns in the case .

It does not ultimately matter what the public think as i dont think there will ever be a re-trial as such and one would hope that any legal process would be run by professionals that would not be influenced by such a programme.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 30, 2019, 01:51:PM
You also have Mike (has he lost interest?) and David1819.
may also add kaldin,notsure,reader,ilovebooze
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 01:55:PM
You also have Mike (has he lost interest?) and David1819.





I can't really blame them for losing interest as it feels like a lost cause now----fighting a losing battle springs to mind.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 01:56:PM




I can't really blame them for losing interest as it feels like a lost cause now----fighting a losing battle springs to mind.
We've been trying to tell you this for years now, he isn’t coming home 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 02:04:PM




I can also take it or leave it. If something's advertised to death it usually turns out to be a flop.
We're not really a nation together as we used to be for various reasons. I could have seen this drama reaching 20 million viewers 30 years ago. Now I'd guess at 10 million.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 02:08:PM
We've been trying to tell you this for years now, he isn’t coming home 👍

so what is your interest in the case ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 02:13:PM
so what is your interest in the case ?
To keep Bamber behind bars. To correct falsehoods.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 02:16:PM
To keep Bamber behind bars. To correct falsehoods.

Are you speaking for Realjustice  now?


Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 02:18:PM
so what is your interest in the case ?
Clearly the opposite of your interest
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 02:33:PM
Clearly the opposite of your interest

well observed .

luckily mine is just an interest - nothing more serious than that ,
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on December 30, 2019, 02:37:PM
so what is your interest in the case ?


He is a friend of the family and set me a pm telling me
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 02:41:PM

He is a friend of the family and set me a pm telling me


You really do thrive on shit stirring, don't you. It's more necessary to your life than oxygen!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 02:41:PM
well observed .

luckily mine is just an interest - nothing more serious than that ,
Well done you 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 02:44:PM

He is a friend of the family and set me a pm telling me

nothing wrong with that .

Every one is entitled to an opinion . After all if we all know 100% what had happened we would not be on the forum in the first place .

None of us .

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 02:46:PM
well observed .

luckily mine is just an interest - nothing more serious than that ,



Or sinister. That's clear.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 02:52:PM


Or sinister. That's clear.

I was going to say that but knew that someone would misinterpret it or turn it round as an insult .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 02:57:PM
I was going to say that but knew that someone would misinterpret it or turn it round as an insult .


I said it for you. I didn't and I haven't ;)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 03:03:PM
nothing wrong with that .

Every one is entitled to an opinion . After all if we all know 100% what had happened we would not be on the forum in the first place .

None of us .
Thanks Jan, yes I have met the family, not to talk about the case obviously through work and I will add I thought they were nice people not the monsters that some portray, Anne is very good at the job she does and has handed it down the family now.  The park has moved forward really fast over the years and it’s credit to them.  I would also add, I’m not in favour (it’s not just this family it’s all holiday park owners) how they treat their customers at times, RE caravan ownership, I touched on this with Jane before.

What also got me interested was (David will come in here he likes this) I met a psychiatrist and a chaplain that worked with Bamber at my Daughters wedding, she got married in York.  This psychiatrist also worked with one of the Krays twins, I’m not prepared to say what she told me.  She is retired now by the way.
 

There are other reasons why I’m here but I’m not prepared to say.

Hope that goes in some way of answering your Question Jan
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 30, 2019, 03:08:PM

He is a friend of the family and set me a pm telling me
oh so what if he is,you keep going on with the same rubbish.if he is (which i know he isnt) what of it can he not become a member of this forum
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 03:10:PM
I wonder if they'll have JM holed-up in an hotel courtesy NOTW while awaiting the verdict ? During the time she couldn't remember signing anything with her solicitor, although remembering lots of other things like telling the prosecution that she hadn't made a deal with anyone-----the court let that one go without question.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 03:13:PM
I wonder if they'll have JM holed-up in an hotel courtesy NOTW while awaiting the verdict ? During the time she couldn't remember signing anything with her solicitor, although remembering lots of other things like telling the prosecution that she hadn't made a deal with anyone-----the court let that one go without question.
Can they bring it up again Lookout, they had chance before?  Maybe NGB could tell us.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 03:14:PM
I wonder if they'll have JM holed-up in an hotel courtesy NOTW while awaiting the verdict ? During the time she couldn't remember signing anything with her solicitor, although remembering lots of other things like telling the prosecution that she hadn't made a deal with anyone-----the court let that one go without question.



Nothing -but NOTHING- which may, or not, have gone on between her and NOTW had any bearing on what the jury came back with.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 03:16:PM
Can they bring it up again Lookout, they had chance before?  Maybe NGB could tell us.





It's a score that's never been settled, nor was it ever questioned. I rather think that NGB will prefer to say nothing.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 03:17:PM




It's a score that's never been settled, nor was it ever questioned. I rather think that NGB will prefer to say nothing.
Oh ok Lookout, I just thought how many times can they use the same argument, unless they have found something different that is?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 03:22:PM
Thanks Jan, yes I have met the family, not to talk about the case obviously through work and I will add I thought they were nice people not the monsters that some portray, Anne is very good at the job she does and has handed it down the family now.  The park has moved forward really fast over the years and it’s credit to them.  I would also add, I’m not in favour (it’s not just this family it’s all holiday park owners) how they treat their customers at times, RE caravan ownership, I touched on this with Jane before.

What also got me interested was (David will come in here he likes this) I met a psychiatrist and a chaplain that worked with Bamber at my Daughters wedding, she got married in York.  This psychiatrist also worked with one of the Krays twins, I’m not prepared to say what she told me.  She is retired now by the way.
 

There are other reasons why I’m here but I’m not prepared to say.

Hope that goes in some way of answering your Question Jan

Thank you

I have always been on here ( on and off for a long time ) because I was interested in the case .

And people always are passionate when they think rightly or wrongly they are pursuing the truth .

My only very remote connection is that i know someone that had met Jeremy on several occasions through the caravan site and also said he was a very quiet self effacing young man  and nothing like he has been portrayed - so there you go.



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 03:33:PM
Thank you

I have always been on here ( on and off for a long time ) because I was interested in the case .

And people always are passionate when they think rightly or wrongly they are pursuing the truth .

My only very remote connection is that i know someone that had met Jeremy on several occasions through the caravan site and also said he was a very quiet self effacing young man  and nothing like he has been portrayed - so there you go.


Just an observation, but the "very quiet self effacing young man" may well have been concealing a long and deep held resentment. My lovely neighbour cried when he recalled how distressed -and embarrassed- Nevill had become after heated argument during which Jeremy had humiliated him. It MAY have been just after that event that someone you knew met the "very quiet self effacing young man"?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 03:38:PM

Just an observation, but the "very quiet self effacing young man" may well have been concealing a long and deep held resentment. My lovely neighbour cried when he recalled how distressed -and embarrassed- Nevill had become after heated argument during which Jeremy had humiliated him. It MAY have been just after that event that someone you knew met the "very quiet self effacing young man"?

No they met him on more than one occasion .several in fact . They knew him and the family and i have spoken to them a few times .

in the same conclusion you should not prejudge someones behaviour at a funeral . My OH was called a cold hard bastsard at a funeral recently . He actually was in shock plus did his greiving in private, Horses for courses and all that .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 03:45:PM
Can they bring it up again Lookout, they had chance before?  Maybe NGB could tell us.

Yes they can because there is new evidence on this available now.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 03:47:PM


Nothing -but NOTHING- which may, or not, have gone on between her and NOTW had any bearing on what the jury came back with.

It was relevant in relation to her credibility as a witness.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on December 30, 2019, 03:49:PM


Nothing -but NOTHING- which may, or not, have gone on between her and NOTW had any bearing on what the jury came back with.


Usual rubbish from you Jane

I hope your joking
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 03:51:PM
Ah yes, I seem to remember you saying that not so long ago, NGB.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 03:52:PM

Usual rubbish from you Jane

I hope your joking

Usual crap from you Jackie
You ARE a joke!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on December 30, 2019, 03:54:PM
It was relevant in relation to her credibility as a witness.


Obviously and to make it worse she tried to hide the date she signed for the £25,000 by saying she couldn’t remember
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 03:58:PM
It was relevant in relation to her credibility as a witness.


But makes no difference to the gun being in Jeremy's hand. However, I'm capable of seeing that it MIGHT make some doubtful which COULD be said to make the conviction unsafe but it doesn't make him innocent.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on December 30, 2019, 03:59:PM
No they met him on more than one occasion .several in fact . They knew him and the family and i have spoken to them a few times .

in the same conclusion you should not prejudge someones behaviour at a funeral . My OH was called a cold hard bastsard at a funeral recently . He actually was in shock plus did his greiving in private, Horses for courses and all that .

I have met a guy called Warren Heslop who did the crop spraying for Neville for 3 years and knew Neville and Jeremy

I am trying to get him to post on here but he’s a bit reluctant at the moment but I think he will.


He can give an impartial impression of Neville and Jeremy’s relationship which is favourable.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 04:00:PM
It was relevant in relation to her credibility as a witness.

so if they could prove the date the deal was arranged then it would be admissible because up to now i think it was said the documents had been lost?


Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 04:02:PM

Usual rubbish from you Jane

I hope your joking


Tell me, from the position you favour, that of slagging off, twisting words, and lying, has there ever been a moment when you've contributed anything worthwhile or told the unadulterated truth? Mmm I thought not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 04:07:PM
Yes they can because there is new evidence on this available now.
Thanks NGB
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 04:38:PM


Nothing -but NOTHING- which may, or not, have gone on between her and NOTW had any bearing on what the jury came back with.
..and how desperate the Defence is to bring up this side issue.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 04:39:PM
..and how desperate the Defence is to bring up this side issue.

It is a valid appeal point.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 04:40:PM
It was relevant in relation to her credibility as a witness.
..and what about Jeremy's deal? Was that relevant in relation to his credibility in testifying in his own defence?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 04:53:PM

But makes no difference to the gun being in Jeremy's hand. However, I'm capable of seeing that it MIGHT make some doubtful which COULD be said to make the conviction unsafe but it doesn't make him innocent.





I think we all know that an " unsafe conviction " doesn't necessarily spell innocence but I imagine that the legal team will go beyond using the unsafe process and instead plump for a MOJ involving a re-trial.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 04:56:PM




I think we all know that an " unsafe conviction " doesn't necessarily spell innocence but I imagine that the legal team will go beyond using the unsafe process and instead plump for a MOJ involving a re-trial.


Which, no doubt, is your dream scenario. However, the race has only just started. The first hurdle hasn't been arrived at.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 05:00:PM
..and what about Jeremy's deal? Was that relevant in relation to his credibility in testifying in his own defence?

How would a promise of money influence his evidence? He was on trial for the murders ? What could be offered to him that would affect his testimony?

The law  regarding inducements applies to those who appear as witnesses not the accused .

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 05:02:PM

Which, no doubt, is your dream scenario. However, the race has only just started. The first hurdle hasn't been arrived at.





Well isn't it better to go through the whole process leaving no stone unturned ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 05:12:PM
..and what about Jeremy's deal? Was that relevant in relation to his credibility in testifying in his own defence?


to be clear here is the law that applied at the time :


16. Witness payments in criminal trials:

(i) No payment or offer of payment to a witness or any person who may reasonably be expected to be called as a witness ? should be made in any case once proceedings are active as defined by the Contempt of Court Act 1981.

(ii) Where proceedings are not yet active but are likely and foreseeable, editors must not make or offer payment to any person who may reasonably be expected to be called as a witness unless the information concerned ought demonstrably to be published in the public interest and there is an over-riding need to make or promise payment for this to be done, and all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that no financial dealings influence the evidence those witnesses give.

(iii) Any payment or offer of payment made to persons later cited to give evidence in proceedings must be disclosed to the prosecution and defence. The witness must be advised of this requirement.?

Proceedings become active under the Contempt of Court Act 1981 with an arrest.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 05:15:PM
How would a promise of money influence his evidence? He was on trial for the murders ? What could be offered to him that would affect his testimony?

The law  regarding inducements applies to those who appear as witnesses not the accused .
If the jury should have been informed about an alleged signing of a News of the World deal by Julie pre-trial then they should also have been made aware of a similar deal in place for Jeremy Bamber.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 05:29:PM
NOTW paid for JM's hotel accommodation too. EP paid JM for the 32 times she gave evidence on each of her attendances.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 05:32:PM
NOTW paid for JM's hotel accommodation too. EP paid JM for the 32 times she gave evidence on each of her attendances.
The same applied to Virginia Greaves waiting for Jeremy to greet her in a Chelmsford hotel. I won't drag up the relevant post.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 05:36:PM
The same applied to Virginia Greaves waiting for Jeremy to greet her in a Chelmsford hotel. I won't drag up the relevant post.





I bet she paid for that herself.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 05:37:PM
If Jeremy had gone to the press because he was found innocent I think he would have quite rightly had a lot to say .

But we will never know will we . Again all speculation .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 05:38:PM
NOTW paid for JM's hotel accommodation too. EP paid JM for the 32 times she gave evidence on each of her attendances.


I believe it's customary for police to provide cover for witnesses travel arrangements. Julie was a student for God's sake.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 05:51:PM

I believe it's customary for police to provide cover for witnesses travel arrangements. Julie was a student for God's sake.

expenses yes.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 30, 2019, 05:55:PM
..and what about Jeremy's deal? Was that relevant in relation to his credibility in testifying in his own defence?
the law in this country is well established. Jeremy was on trial. He had nothing to prove. That was arlidges job
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 05:56:PM
expenses yes.


THAT was the word I was looking for!!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 05:58:PM
..and what about Jeremy's deal? Was that relevant in relation to his credibility in testifying in his own defence?

Jeremy's deal was a completely different matter, for several reasons already explained here several times.  First, there was nothing improper in Jeremy as a defendant entering into an agreement with a newspaper.  It is frequently done and there can be no criticism of it.  It was however totally improper for JM to enter into such a deal and she compounded that by lying about it when asked during the trial.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:00:PM
How would a promise of money influence his evidence? He was on trial for the murders ? What could be offered to him that would affect his testimony?

The law  regarding inducements applies to those who appear as witnesses not the accused .

Quite right.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:01:PM
If the jury should have been informed about an alleged signing of a News of the World deal by Julie pre-trial then they should also have been made aware of a similar deal in place for Jeremy Bamber.

Utter nonsense.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:02:PM
The same applied to Virginia Greaves waiting for Jeremy to greet her in a Chelmsford hotel. I won't drag up the relevant post.

What is the relevance of that?  It could have no bearing on the trial at all.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 06:03:PM
Utter nonsense.
Your whole campaign to release a mass murderer is utter nonsense.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:08:PM
Your whole campaign to release a mass murderer is utter nonsense.

You are as usual thoroughly offensive.  I have never campaigned to release a mass murderer, as you know.

Your defence of the indefensible Julie Mugford is utter nonsense and irrational.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 06:09:PM
Jeremy's deal was a completely different matter, for several reasons already explained here several times.  First, there was nothing improper in Jeremy as a defendant entering into an agreement with a newspaper.  It is frequently done and there can be no criticism of it.  It was however totally improper for JM to enter into such a deal and she compounded that by lying about it when asked during the trial.
I think NGB would agree with me, investigators have learnt their lesson now with appeals, they take their time investigating and have to have it case ready before CPS will look at it.  It’s very frustrating for victims but from a case being reported to actually going to court could take 2 years now. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 06:11:PM
Your whole campaign to release a mass murderer is utter nonsense.

the campaign is to release a man many believe is innocent and your remark is very personal and untrue.

Why would anyone campaign if they thought he was guilty ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:13:PM
I think NGB would agree with me, investigators have learnt their lesson now with appeals, they take their time investigating and have to have it case ready before CPS will look at it.  It’s very frustrating for victims but from a case being reported to actually going to court could take 2 years now.

Yes that is quite right RJ.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 06:17:PM
Yes that is quite right RJ.
The CPS are very very reluctant to take cases that aren’t a high percentage possible conviction now days, I wish I could talk more NGB, not wise on here though 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:19:PM
The CPS are very very reluctant to take cases that aren’t a high percentage possible conviction now days, I wish I could talk more NGB, not wise on here though 😂😂😂

I agree RJ. 

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 06:21:PM
I agree RJ.
Would you agree there is a high bar set for Bamber now though NGB
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 06:21:PM
Your whole campaign to release a mass murderer is utter nonsense.


Steve, I really can't say that I totally believe NGB to be either in, or running a campaign to get JB released. Thus far, I don't believe him to have done more that confirm points of law. Facts as opposed to beliefs. I believe he's keeping his cards close to his chest in attempt to keep both sides happy. At the moment, it appears, because of what's going on, that supporters have the edge. Things change.

 I, too, look back on Julie's behaviour at the time, as being indefensible, however, as a 22 year old, I don't believe she was pulling the strings supporters accuse her of. I also wonder, for how long the obvious vendetta against her will run.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 06:24:PM
do you think if the CPS had been in place at the time of the murders that the silencer evidence would have been admitted?

taking into account it was removed from the crime scene , handled by several people , they did not photograph the alleged hair and blood , they took the silencer apart in uncontrolled conditions meaning the evidence could have been contaminated in the boot of the car , on the kitchen table or in the wardrobe where it may or may not have been put?
then when it was collected it was removed incorrectly ( that is not using gloves or the appropriate container ).

I don't think so .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 06:28:PM
It is a valid appeal point.

I agree but it would surely be a technicality? She had no paid incentive to go to the police in the first place
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 06:29:PM

Steve, I really can't say that I totally believe NGB to be either in, or running a campaign to get JB released. Thus far, I don't believe him to have done more that confirm points of law. Facts as opposed to beliefs. I believe he's keeping his cards close to his chest in attempt to keep both sides happy. At the moment, it appears, because of what's going on, that supporters have the edge. Things change.

 I, too, look back on Julie's behaviour at the time, as being indefensible, however, as a 22 year old, I don't believe she was pulling the strings supporters accuse her of. I also wonder, for how long the obvious vendetta against her will run.
I think she's an easy target, the weakest link in the chain, I suspect ulterior motives and I'd like ngb1066 to explain how he came to the conclusion that the claim Jeremy Bamber made that he received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night was genuine.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:30:PM
Would you agree there is a high bar set for Bamber now though NGB

There is in practice now a high bar for JB to secure a fresh appeal.  The CCRC are frankly fairly hostile to him now.  Having referred the case once to the Court of Appeal and having seen some fairly strong comments in the Court of Appeal judgement they are very wary of sending the case back for a third appeal.  They were not very helpful to JB in the run up to the last submissions in 2012.  They have declined to use their powers to compel disclosure to the extent requested by the defence, for reasons I considered very weak.

I think that to persuade the CCRC to refer the case again will require very strong grounds based upon new evidence, not available at trial or at the earlier appeals.   I am out of the loop now so I do not know how far JB's current legal have got.



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 06:32:PM
do you think if the CPS had been in place at the time of the murders that the silencer evidence would have been admitted?

taking into account it was removed from the crime scene , handled by several people , they did not photograph the alleged hair and blood , they took the silencer apart in uncontrolled conditions meaning the evidence could have been contaminated in the boot of the car , on the kitchen table or in the wardrobe where it may or may not have been put?
then when it was collected it was removed incorrectly ( that is not using gloves or the appropriate container ).

I don't think so .


I don't think there's a single person here who would say it was a good investigation, but however bad it may have been, it still won't remove the gun from Jeremy's hand.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:35:PM
I agree but it would surely be a technicality? She had no paid incentive to go to the police in the first place

It could not stand as a sole ground of appeal.  However taken with other material it could seriously undermine JM's credibility which would give additional weight to submissions that the convictions could no longer be regarded as safe.  The Court of Appeal obviously considers the individual grounds of appeal and assesses them individually, then looks at the case overall in the round to decide whether the convictions are safe, in other words whether there must be at least a reasonable doubt about guilt.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 06:37:PM
I think she's an easy target, the weakest link in the chain, I suspect ulterior motives and I'd like ngb1066 to explain how he came to the conclusion that the claim Jeremy Bamber made that he received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night was genuine.

tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2019, 06:37:PM

I don't think there's a single person here who would say it was a good investigation, but however bad it may have been, it still won't remove the gun from Jeremy's hand.





Where's that new phrase come from ? I would say that judging by prints found on the shotgun ( Sheila's ) and prints from an unknown male that Jeremy wasn't the only one who handled guns.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 06:39:PM
tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .

sorry i thought you were talking about the second call that has been claimed . Not the first .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 06:40:PM
tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .
He won't explain because he can't. You would think that because it cannot be disproved is not a strong enough reason to campaign to have a mass murderer released.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2019, 06:40:PM




Where's that new phrase come from ? I would say that judging by prints found on the shotgun ( Sheila's ) and prints from an unknown male that Jeremy wasn't the only one who handled guns.


 Not in any way difficult to have got Sheila's prints on it. Unknown male?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 30, 2019, 06:41:PM
I think she's an easy target, the weakest link in the chain, I suspect ulterior motives and I'd like ngb1066 to explain how he came to the conclusion that the claim Jeremy Bamber made that he received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night was genuine.

JB has consistently stated that he received the telephone call from his father.  There is no direct evidence to contradict this.  In view of this it is not possible to analyse this further in isolation.  If you take the view that the evidence overall is conclusive of JB's guilt then obviously you take the view that notwithstanding there being no direct evidence on the matter the call from NB cannot have taken place.  It is somewhat a circular analysis.  If on the other hand you take the view that the evidence overall does not establish JB's guilt there is no reason to disbelieve JB's account.

 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2019, 07:06:PM
It could not stand as a sole ground of appeal.  However taken with other material it could seriously undermine JM's credibility which would give additional weight to submissions that the convictions could no longer be regarded as safe.  The Court of Appeal obviously considers the individual grounds of appeal and assesses them individually, then looks at the case overall in the round to decide whether the convictions are safe, in other words whether there must be at least a reasonable doubt about guilt.

Yes, I see that but as far as the rest of the stuff goes, it all seems very weak and that BS about what time he called the police is a laughing stock - especially as just a few years ago he argued the opposite. I can't say for sure, but I bet that was part of the stuff that SM refused to present.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 07:12:PM
JB has consistently stated that he received the telephone call from his father.  There is no direct evidence to contradict this.  In view of this it is not possible to analyse this further in isolation.  If you take the view that the evidence overall is conclusive of JB's guilt then obviously you take the view that notwithstanding there being no direct evidence on the matter the call from NB cannot have taken place.  It is somewhat a circular analysis.  If on the other hand you take the view that the evidence overall does not establish JB's guilt there is no reason to disbelieve JB's account.
It's quite evident that you don't take this view, so you have dismissed all the evidence against Jeremy Bamber in your mind.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 07:16:PM
It's quite evident that you don't take this view, so you have dismissed all the evidence against Jeremy Bamber in your mind.

but what is the evidence against Jeremy ? Julie mugfords testimony ? Not the silencer surely ?

The rest is opinion and hearsay and assumption?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 07:28:PM
but what is the evidence against Jeremy ? Julie mugfords testimony ? Not the silencer surely ?

The rest is opinion and hearsay and assumption?
The whole scenario from the spotting of the rabbits to Jeremy Bamber's interrogation by Police. It's all a tissue of lies on his part.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 07:30:PM
The whole scenario from the spotting of the rabbits to Jeremy Bamber's interrogation by Police. It's all a tissue of lies on his part.
[/quote


at the moemnt as he is guilty in jail of course you can assume that to be the case .

Lets see what happens in the future.


if he is proven innocent all of a sudden it becomes true . thats the problem with scenarios
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 30, 2019, 07:44:PM
As we don't know why the jury convicted Jeremy, it could indeed be very relevant that Julie Mugford was paid for her story, on condition that there was a guilty verdict. This has surely been addressed by previous appeals though.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 07:53:PM
As we don't know why the jury convicted Jeremy, it could indeed be very relevant that Julie Mugford was paid for her story, on condition that there was a guilty verdict. This has surely been addressed by previous appeals though.

I don't think they could prove when the deal was made though .

the papers were "missing"
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on December 30, 2019, 07:56:PM
I don't think they could prove when the deal was made though .

the papers were "missing"
Hello Jan, good to see you back. 😀. Big surprise the papers were missing  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 30, 2019, 08:00:PM
I don't think they could prove when the deal was made though .

the papers were "missing"

It was discussed before the trial though wasn't it? I would have thought that was enough.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 08:01:PM
Hello Jan, good to see you back. 😀. Big surprise the papers were missing  ::)

Hi Maggie

hope all is ok with you .

I am back waiting for the reaction to the "drama " really and to see if sensible discussions were being had (:

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 08:03:PM
It was discussed before the trial though wasn't it? I would have thought that was enough.

well with the law at the time if it had of been proved I think there would have been a prosecution - tbh recall the deal was discussed at the appeal but was dismissed - I think - sorry bit rusty as I have not been on here for a while
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 08:05:PM
It was discussed before the trial though wasn't it? I would have thought that was enough.

sorry do you mean before the trial or the appeal .

I think that there was a warning not to speak to the press during the trial ? But  not sure . I would have to check.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 08:17:PM
It was discussed before the trial though wasn't it? I would have thought that was enough.




I found this from a while ago :


he defence received information that Julie Mugford had concluded a deal with the NoW.  Geoffrey Rivlin raised this in chambers with the judge.  The judge ordered the prosecution to make enquiries, which they did.  They reported back to the judge and the defence that Julie Mugford stated that she had concluded no agreement with any newspaper, and had no intention of doing so.  As a result of that Julie Mugford was not cross examined on this, upon the basis that she would have repeated her denial and under the rules of evidence and professional conduct she could not have been accused of lying about this because the defence did not have any admissible evidence to contradict it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 08:28:PM
There is in practice now a high bar for JB to secure a fresh appeal.  The CCRC are frankly fairly hostile to him now.  Having referred the case once to the Court of Appeal and having seen some fairly strong comments in the Court of Appeal judgement they are very wary of sending the case back for a third appeal.  They were not very helpful to JB in the run up to the last submissions in 2012.  They have declined to use their powers to compel disclosure to the extent requested by the defence, for reasons I considered very weak.

I think that to persuade the CCRC to refer the case again will require very strong grounds based upon new evidence, not available at trial or at the earlier appeals.   I am out of the loop now so I do not know how far JB's current legal have got.
To be fair NGB I’m glad your out the loop and I really do mean that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on December 30, 2019, 08:35:PM
Here's Julie's statement about the deal.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1210.0.html

It all seems to have been dealt with in 2002 at least.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 08:50:PM
still no detail about when it was signed which is the most relevant bit .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 08:54:PM
Here's Julie's statement about the deal.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1210.0.html

It all seems to have been dealt with in 2002 at least.
"Money was never my drive: it was the consequence of the advice I was given.."
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on December 30, 2019, 09:05:PM
Thank you

I have always been on here ( on and off for a long time ) because I was interested in the case .

And people always are passionate when they think rightly or wrongly they are pursuing the truth .

My only very remote connection is that i know someone that had met Jeremy on several occasions through the caravan site and also said he was a very quiet self effacing young man  and nothing like he has been portrayed - so there you go.
And your only other connection is you write to him?  I don’t think that’s remote
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 30, 2019, 09:06:PM
still no detail about when it was signed which is the most relevant bit .
No but she does affirm that she would never lie on oath for financial benefit.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 30, 2019, 09:46:PM
No but she does affirm that she would never lie on oath for financial benefit.
[/quote

does not make any difference - if she signd the agreement before the court case finished she and the NOTW broke the law and misled the trial judge and broke the law .

ignoramce of the law is no excuse and she did lie in her statements to the police so how do we know she did not keep up the pretence in court with the money as the incentive.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 01:01:PM
No but she does affirm that she would never lie on oath for financial benefit.
[/quote

does not make any difference - if she signd the agreement before the court case finished she and the NOTW broke the law and misled the trial judge and broke the law .

ignoramce of the law is no excuse and she did lie in her statements to the police so how do we know she did not keep up the pretence in court with the money as the incentive.
The Defence had ample opportunity to expose her and failed.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 01:10:PM
No but she does affirm that she would never lie on oath for financial benefit.
[/quote

does not make any difference - if she signd the agreement before the court case finished she and the NOTW broke the law and misled the trial judge and broke the law .

ignoramce of the law is no excuse and she did lie in her statements to the police so how do we know she did not keep up the pretence in court with the money as the incentive.


I find it hard to believe, given the importance which is being placed on it now, that this wasn't thoroughly checked out at the time.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 01:20:PM

I find it hard to believe, given the importance which is being placed on it now, that this wasn't thoroughly checked out at the time.
I don't see what difference it makes. Her testimony was her testimony whether she expected financial gain from it at the end or not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 01:23:PM
but as far as I know the deal was only discussed in chambers and not in the court - so she would not have been questioned about it in court ?

And she was not going to admit it was she as she had been warned of the consequences .

She told the judge she had no intention of making a deal - but from her own statement she admitted that the discussion  between her solicitor and the press and the reasons why had been going on for some time .

and then within days she did exactly what she said she was not going to do ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 01:26:PM
but as far as I know the deal was only discussed in chambers and not in the court - so she would not have been questioned about it in court ?

And she was not going to admit it was she as she had been warned of the consequences .

She told the judge she had no intention of making a deal - but from her own statement she admitted that the discussion  between her solicitor and the press and the reasons why had been going on for some time .

and then within days she did exactly what she said she was not going to do ?
But I don't think anything had been signed. The News of the World would not have been interested in her story had Jeremy Bamber got off.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 01:30:PM
But I don't think anything had been signed. The News of the World would not have been interested in her story had Jeremy Bamber got off.

we will see wont we .

the deal was signed in the event of him being convicted and a sum of money was agreed beforehand . That's what I think .All this losing of documents and no memory of the signing date makes no sense at all .

All she had to say was she did it at the time  ruling came in ( even though she told the judge she would not )  but she never said that did she?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 31, 2019, 01:31:PM
But I don't think anything had been signed. The News of the World would not have been interested in her story had Jeremy Bamber got off.

It had been signed.  The agreement provided for payment only if JB was convicted.

 

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 31, 2019, 01:35:PM
The Defence had ample opportunity to expose her and failed.

The defence did not have ample opportunity to expose her.  She lied about the NoW deal and the defence at that time had no way of getting access to the documents which exposed her lies.  This was compounded by the deception about the circumstances in which the bank were persuaded not to press charges in relation to the cheque fraud.  Had the jury had the full facts it is likely that they would have treated JM's evidence with considerably greater caution.

 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 01:36:PM
We also have to remember that money in those days was enough to buy her a flat . Which is what she did .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on December 31, 2019, 01:44:PM
It's quite evident that you don't take this view, so you have dismissed all the evidence against Jeremy Bamber in your mind.

I have not dismissed any of the evidence in my mind.  The approach I have adopted is of looking at all of the evidence, analysing it individually and then deciding how it fits in with the remainder of the evidence.  It is a matter of looking at the evidence in the round and in context.

You on the other hand seem very blinkered in your approach.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 01:47:PM
I have not dismissed any of the evidence in my mind.  The approach I have adopted is of looking at all of the evidence, analysing it individually and then deciding how it fits in with the remainder of the evidence.  It is a matter of looking at the evidence in the round and in context.

You on the other hand seem very blinkered in our approach.
Not at all: I have analysed Jeremy Bamber's interactions with his adopted relatives since birth, as well as studying his acquaintances at the Frog and Beans and Julie's schoolfriends during the almost two years of his association with her.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 01:52:PM
Not at all: I have analysed Jeremy Bamber's interactions with his adopted relatives since birth, as well as studying his acquaintances at the Frog and Beans and Julie's schoolfriends during the almost two years of his association with her.

so your basis of his guilt is based on his home life and character analysis ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 02:14:PM
we will see wont we .

the deal was signed in the event of him being convicted and a sum of money was agreed beforehand . That's what I think .All this losing of documents and no memory of the signing date makes no sense at all .

All she had to say was she did it at the time  ruling came in ( even though she told the judge she would not )  but she never said that did she?

I was once in a similar position. I swore I'd never signed a document -I had no recall other than seeing it and refusing to sign. Some four years down the line I was shown the document. To my horror, my signature was on every spare space on it! I had, and still have no recall of doing it. My only defense was that I was in a very bad place at the time. Of course, it can justifiably be said that I lied. But such was never my intention.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 31, 2019, 02:15:PM
was it never bought up in any of the appeals ,about julies past
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 02:24:PM
I was once in a similar position. I swore I'd never signed a document -I had no recall other than seeing it and refusing to sign. Some four years down the line I was shown the document. To my horror, my signature was on every spare space on it! I had, and still have no recall of doing it. My only defense was that I was in a very bad place at the time. Of course, it can justifiably be said that I lied. But such was never my intention.

yes but if she was telling the truth in chambers ( which still does not add up with her later statement) she must have signed it in the hotel before the infamous article appeared - (and had the photo done ) so you think she would have remembered .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 02:28:PM
yes but if she was telling the truth in chambers ( which still does not add up with her later statement) she must have signed it in the hotel before the infamous article appeared - (and had the photo done ) so you think she would have remembered .


I can only say I can't imagine how I could have forgotten. I still have a sense of shame about the incident.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 02:30:PM

I can only say I can't imagine how I could have forgotten. I still have a sense of shame about the incident.

wonder where the pictures were taken ? in the hotel ? I am not sure what date the article was published .

typical NOW though .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 02:35:PM
wonder where the pictures were taken ? in the hotel ? I am not sure what date the article was published .

typical NOW though .


I kept it all for years but eventually, like the Charles and Diana wedding, and her death, it all became consigned to recycling!!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 02:40:PM
so your basis of his guilt is based on his home life and character analysis ?
It's based on the ever-vertiginous number of hoops I had to jump through to make Jeremy Bamber innocent. I was not prepared so to do.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 02:41:PM
We also have to remember that money in those days was enough to buy her a flat . Which is what she did .
Had she thrown it away gambling I'm sure she would have been censured for that too.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 03:41:PM
was it never bought up in any of the appeals ,about julies past




Nobody's past except Jeremy's and allegedly hers was quite chequered.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 03:46:PM
Had she thrown it away gambling I'm sure she would have been censured for that too.

she could have given it to any charity she had chosen though .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on December 31, 2019, 05:05:PM
Not at all: I have analysed Jeremy Bamber's interactions with his adopted relatives since birth, as well as studying his acquaintances at the Frog and Beans and Julie's schoolfriends during the almost two years of his association with her.

(https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ricky-gervais-laughing.gif?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=540%2C359&ssl=1)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2019, 05:14:PM

I kept it all for years but eventually, like the Charles and Diana wedding, and her death, it all became consigned to recycling!!

I did try and get other newspaper articles for the reporting on the case from archives but it was more difficult that I thought
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on December 31, 2019, 05:35:PM
Hello Jan did you ask your local library for help some years ago I was following the Neil Moss tragedy and my local library obtained copies of all the newspapers reporting at the time this happened March 1959 quite a few years before the Bamber case.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 07:47:PM
Hello Jan did you ask your local library for help some years ago I was following the Neil Moss tragedy and my local library obtained copies of all the newspapers reporting at the time this happened March 1959 quite a few years before the Bamber case.
Susan what got you involved in that case? http://www.thegranthams.co.uk/paul/graves/neilmoss.html
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on December 31, 2019, 07:57:PM
Hi steve it was quite by accident I saw something on the internet and that set me off.  I found the case so interesting but so sad what a death for the young lad I spoke with cavers who were with him on that fateful day infact one of them had made the descent a week earlier just to test the way so to speak but he was a small guy Neil Moss was tall and this is one of the reasons he could not climb the rope ladder it seems neglect played a part as well.  Steve you should read the whole case it is amazing the way in and out of the cave is awesome and even if they had got him out they could never have got a stretcher in there for him.He was left just as he died his parents did not want anyone to risk their life trying to bring him out.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on December 31, 2019, 08:37:PM

I can only say I can't imagine how I could have forgotten. I still have a sense of shame about the incident.

jayne would you have said you didn’t sign it if you were being questioned by a judge in a murder trial though? i would you have not given it some further thought and decide to say you could t remember??

i think she had dug herself a hole so stuck with her story
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 08:40:PM
jayne would you have said you didn’t sign it if you were being questioned by a judge in a murder trial though? i would you have not given it some further thought and decide to say you could t remember??

i think she had dug herself a hole so stuck with her story
..and who put her into the hole in the first place?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on December 31, 2019, 08:42:PM
..and who put her into the hole in the first place?

haha i think she did that all by her lonesome
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 08:43:PM
Stan Jones with his promise of a reward----she had to keep talking no matter what.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 08:48:PM
jayne would you have said you didn’t sign it if you were being questioned by a judge in a murder trial though? i would you have not given it some further thought and decide to say you could t remember??

i think she had dug herself a hole so stuck with her story

Notsure, you must know me well enough to know that I'd never say what I'd do, or not, in a situation, unless/until I was there. What I will say is, convinced as I was that I never signed I can only only believe that I'd have stuck to it, however, it's not impossible that, given the seriousness of the situation,  I'd have decided to say I couldn't remember. It's very possible that you're correct re Julie.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on December 31, 2019, 08:56:PM
Happy New Year steve hope you enjoy the fireworks
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2019, 08:57:PM
Happy New Year steve hope you enjoy the fireworks
Happy New Year to you and all. Yes there have been a few loud bangs close by.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 09:00:PM
Happy New Year to you and all. Yes there have been a few loud bangs close by.





Happy New Year Steve. x Keep on truckin'.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on December 31, 2019, 09:01:PM
Happy New Year Jane
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on December 31, 2019, 09:06:PM
Hehehe lookout that is not fair two messages to steve unless I am seeing double bit early for that.,Happy New Year to all forum members hope we are all here next year Off to the party now night night xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on December 31, 2019, 09:08:PM
Hehehe lookout that is not fair two messages to steve unless I am seeing double bit early for that.,Happy New Year to all forum members hope we are all here next year Off to the party now night night xx
thanks susan,have a good one x
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 09:12:PM
Hehehe lookout that is not fair two messages to steve unless I am seeing double bit early for that.,Happy New Year to all forum members hope we are all here next year Off to the party now night night xx





Enjoy, Susan. xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 09:27:PM
I wish you ALL Good Evening
And a happy, bright New Year
May 2020 bring you ALL
Your dreams, good health and cheer.

May peaceful thoughts surround you
And the path you tread be kind
Before you take it, raise a glass
The largest you can find.

Wishing you all a WONDERFUL 2020............the year of perfect vision for everyone xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 09:34:PM
That's lovely.
A Happy New Year to you Jane xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on December 31, 2019, 09:44:PM
That's lovely.
A Happy New Year to you Jane xx


And a Very Special one to you, Lookout xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 09:45:PM

And a Very Special one to you, Lookout xx





That's so nice.xx Thankyou.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on December 31, 2019, 09:47:PM
Wishing everybody a happy 2020. Me and the Mrs are watching Billy Elliott and enjoying a few glasses of wine. Slow cooker of spaghetti bolognese. ( I haven't contributed one iota I burn water) Best wishes
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2019, 09:52:PM
Wishing everybody a happy 2020. Me and the Mrs are watching Billy Elliott and enjoying a few glasses of wine. Slow cooker of spaghetti bolognese. ( I haven't contributed one iota I burn water) Best wishes





I'm watching Billy Elliott too. A Happy New Year to you and the Mrs.xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 01, 2020, 03:30:AM




I'm watching Billy Elliott too. A Happy New Year to you and the Mrs.xx

It was made in Easington - sadly the area is decimated now! Great film! 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 01, 2020, 05:13:PM
Back to the drama

So I will be looking out for the claims that have appeared on this forum and might appear ?

The widows were not checked correctly ( the police did not know what secured mean)
Jeremy going to the poppy field in order to induce vomiting
Jeremy completely guiding the police operation so they did not go in and establish the time of death
Jeremy faking his shock and upset when he was told that his family were dead . And the police completely being taken in.
How they portray Julie going to the mortuary to ID the twins when according to her later statements Jeremy had told her why they would be included in the murders
Will they cover granny Bambers will being changed before Jeremy was found guilty .
How will sheila be portrayed in the hours before the murders because there are a wide varying range of descriptions.
How will the drama cover evidence being destroyed on the instructions of the police ?


I have a feeling that EP might not be too happy with this “drama “




Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 01, 2020, 05:19:PM
Back to the drama

So I will be looking out for the claims that have appeared on this forum and might appear ?

The widows were not checked correctly ( the police did not know what secured mean)
Jeremy going to the poppy field in order to induce vomiting
Jeremy completely guiding the police operation so they did not go in and establish the time of death
Jeremy faking his shock and upset when he was told that his family were dead . And the police completely being taken in.
How they portray Julie going to the mortuary to ID the twins when according to her later statements Jeremy had told her why they would be included in the murders
Will they cover granny Bambers will being changed before Jeremy was found guilty .
How will sheila be portrayed in the hours before the murders because there are a wide varying range of descriptions.
How will the drama cover evidence being destroyed on the instructions of the police ?


I have a feeling that EP might not be too happy with this “drama “


Why would there be anything in it taken from claims made by a forum? It's based on CAL's and Colin's books.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 01, 2020, 05:19:PM
I'll soon let Stephen Graham know. ;) If anyone knows how the police work-or don't, he will. Strange he never took Stan Jones's part, then again, perhaps he hadn't wanted to ??
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 01, 2020, 05:21:PM
I'll soon let Stephen Graham know. ;) If anyone knows how the police work-or don't, he will. Strange he never took Stan Jones's part, then again, perhaps he hadn't wanted to ??



Or he wasn't offered it?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 01, 2020, 05:23:PM
Back to the drama

So I will be looking out for the claims that have appeared on this forum and might appear ?

The widows were not checked correctly ( the police did not know what secured mean)
Jeremy going to the poppy field in order to induce vomiting
Jeremy completely guiding the police operation so they did not go in and establish the time of death
Jeremy faking his shock and upset when he was told that his family were dead . And the police completely being taken in.
How they portray Julie going to the mortuary to ID the twins when according to her later statements Jeremy had told her why they would be included in the murders
Will they cover granny Bambers will being changed before Jeremy was found guilty .
How will sheila be portrayed in the hours before the murders because there are a wide varying range of descriptions.
How will the drama cover evidence being destroyed on the instructions of the police ?


I have a feeling that EP might not be too happy with this “drama “
You mean June's mother, Mabel Speakman. Granny Bamber was Nevill's mother, who came to live at White House Farm for a brief period in 1981.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 01, 2020, 05:26:PM
You mean June's mother, Mabel Speakman. Granny Bamber was Nevill's mother, who came to live at White House Farm for a brief period in 1981.
Which will was he named in ? and then the solicitor was called in to change the will before the verdict . ? Sorry I am rusty as have been away from the forum .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 01, 2020, 05:28:PM


Or he wasn't offered it?





That, we don't know.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 01, 2020, 05:29:PM
You mean June's mother, Mabel Speakman. Granny Bamber was Nevill's mother, who came to live at White House Farm for a brief period in 1981.

Sorry yes stand corrected Mabel speakman because he would have inherited because of his parents death .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 01, 2020, 05:34:PM
Which will was he named in ? and then the solicitor was called in to change the will before the verdict . ? Sorry I am rusty as have been away from the forum .
The news of the tragedy was kept from Mabel Speakman for several days, the relatives believing the shock of learning of five deaths might kill her. Once Mabel Speakman, who at this stage in her life was confined to bed, learned of the truth, she wished to change her will leaving everything to her last surviving daughter, Pamela Boutflour. A solicitor was called and the will was amended, I presume so that Jeremy Bamber would not inherit his mother's portion by default.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 01, 2020, 05:34:PM
Not forgetting that Granny Speakman was made to understand that they'd all perished before she put pen to paper on the Will.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 01, 2020, 06:33:PM
Which will was he named in ? and then the solicitor was called in to change the will before the verdict . ? Sorry I am rusty as have been away from the forum .

I don't think that Jeremy was named in Mabel's Will, but if she had not changed it he would have inherited June's share (I think).
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 01, 2020, 06:34:PM
I don't think that Jeremy was named in Mabel's Will, but if she had not changed it he would have inherited June's share (I think).

Yes my error .i did correct myself in a later post .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 01, 2020, 08:31:PM
Not at all: I have analysed Jeremy Bamber's interactions with his adopted relatives since birth, as well as studying his acquaintances at the Frog and Beans and Julie's schoolfriends during the almost two years of his association with her.
Have you had any experience of adoption or of adoptees?  If not how can you have much idea of the loneliness and lack of belonging such a child might feel?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 02, 2020, 08:00:PM
Have you had any experience of adoption or of adoptees?  If not how can you have much idea of the loneliness and lack of belonging such a child might feel?
I'm not adopted Maggie but I can read books and make my own judgements. It's pretty clear to me that Jeremy was out of his depth at Gresham's and regarded it mentally as a further banishment after he had left his birth mother and been adopted by Nevill and June. His loneliness and lack of belonging were heightened the way his parents treated Suzette, which if there is any key to the Bamber enigma this is it. He blamed them for rejecting her, for outright threatening to disinherit him should the relationship continue, and castigated them in his mind for her miscarriages, which he believed were brought about by the stress she suffered as a result of this ostracism.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 02, 2020, 10:07:PM
They certainly go for CAL in the blog, if only she had said that Bamber was innocent?  I don’t know what she would have got if she had openly said he was guilty, credit due to CAL, she lets the reader decide yet they still have their claws into her.

The drama is apparently based on the rights to a book by Carol Ann Lee, who, with a vested interest in making money from misery, repeated lies in her book, refusing to accept the evidence, or even write about it. Using internet gossip forums as a source for research of a ‘factual’ book is farcical and is extremely poor practice

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 02, 2020, 10:09:PM
Colin's input too RJ.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 02, 2020, 10:18:PM
Colin's input too RJ.
I wish they were all honest like you Lookout, the CT would get more respect.  You have to admit, there’s stuff in there that’s false, I’ve nothing about campaigning, so long as it’s done properly.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 02, 2020, 10:37:PM
They certainly go for CAL in the blog, if only she had said that Bamber was innocent?  I don’t know what she would have got if she had openly said he was guilty, credit due to CAL, she lets the reader decide yet they still have their claws into her.

The drama is apparently based on the rights to a book by Carol Ann Lee, who, with a vested interest in making money from misery, repeated lies in her book, refusing to accept the evidence, or even write about it. Using internet gossip forums as a source for research of a ‘factual’ book is farcical and is extremely poor practice

Her book is well researched! Several times I have pointed out that they had stuff wrong on their website. They once wrote that Sheila's finger prints were on the bullet cases - BS! Don't think it's on there now?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 02, 2020, 10:40:PM
They certainly go for CAL in the blog, if only she had said that Bamber was innocent?  I don’t know what she would have got if she had openly said he was guilty, credit due to CAL, she lets the reader decide yet they still have their claws into her.

The drama is apparently based on the rights to a book by Carol Ann Lee, who, with a vested interest in making money from misery, repeated lies in her book, refusing to accept the evidence, or even write about it. Using internet gossip forums as a source for research of a ‘factual’ book is farcical and is extremely poor practice


 
I have to agree with other posts . Nearly every author and tv programme would be studying the case for money . But that post  is a bit strong . Can’t comment if it’s true because I have to admit I only skimmed read the book as I found it a bit , dare I say it , boring .

But I do believe she listed her references so the statement seems unfair .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 02, 2020, 10:44:PM
Her book is well researched! Several times I have pointed out that they had stuff wrong on their website. They once wrote that Sheila's finger prints were on the bullet cases - BS! Don't think it's on there now?
Its well documented he hated his parents, Brett Collins even testifies to this, yet they portray his love for them as butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. Sites like that should be shut down if they can’t give proven facts!  Do they mention Brett Collins on the site much Caroline, or is he pushed in the background?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 02, 2020, 10:54:PM
Its well documented he hated his parents, Brett Collins even testifies to this, yet they portray his love for them as butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. Sites like that should be shut down if they can’t give proven facts!  Do they mention Brett Collins on the site much Caroline, or is he pushed in the background?

I just read Bretts statement . He said Jeremy got the watches in Australia not New Zealand . He also said he did not think jeremy was capable of murder . He did not have the guts . He said his relationship with his father wa not close , more like a business arrangement and he thought his mother was a bit strange for giving a lot of money away to the church when the farm needed  the money .

So not quite Hating his parents . Just not close .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 02, 2020, 11:00:PM

 
I have to agree with other posts . Nearly every author and tv programme would be studying the case for money . But that post  is a bit strong . Can’t comment if it’s true because I have to admit I only skimmed read the book as I found it a bit , dare I say it , boring .

But I do believe she listed her references so the statement seems unfair .
Thanks Jan for your honest opinion, like I say, I’ve nothing whatsoever against campaigning, it back fires when people realise it’s false, they should stick to truth.  They wanted some input in the series and they were rebuffed and this is their revenge.  I don’t think any tv production company would run a series and hope to make a loss, it’s sad that it’s these type of programmes are what viewers want, it’s shows this is the case because an American channel have bought it, there’s a huge market for true crime stories, I think it stems from a fear of crime, a search for motifs that will  challenges the brain and a feeling for the victims.  We’re all detectives aren’t we 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 02, 2020, 11:06:PM
I just read Bretts statement . He said Jeremy got the watches in Australia not New Zealand . He also said he did not think jeremy was capable of murder . He did not have the guts . He said his relationship with his father wa not close , more like a business arrangement and he thought his mother was a bit strange for giving a lot of money away to the church when the farm needed  the money .

So not quite Hating his parents . Just not close .
If you read this Jan, I know were splitting hairs, he does say he hated his mother at times.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8969.0;attach=50192

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 02, 2020, 11:16:PM
The impression is she loved the church more than anything . And did not like his girlfriends or friends .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 11:08:AM
If you read this Jan, I know were splitting hairs, he does say he hated his mother at times.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8969.0;attach=50192





I'm sure he was never the  first or last to have expressed himself in that way RJ.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 11:12:AM
Hi Lookout you are quite right JB saying that from time to time does not make him a murderer.  Just read the post back and I addressed you as Lootout hehehe xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 11:20:AM
Hi Lookout you are quite right JB saying that from time to time does not make him a murderer.  Just read the post back and I addressed you as Lootout hehehe xx





Hahahaha, a slip of the " pen "xx. Thousands/millions must have said that throughout the years which means nothing really.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 03, 2020, 03:17:PM
If you read this Jan, I know were splitting hairs, he does say he hated his mother at times.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8969.0;attach=50192
Im sure both he and Sheila did hate their mother most of the time however hard they tried not to.  If all you have known your whole life is that you are not good enough and don’t come up to standard, if you have always been told you should be grateful for being adopted, maybe told your mother/family didn’t want you etc. It is a very tough call.  Possibly she or both discussed their disappointment with their children, with family, friends and colleagues, no doubt June told people they were adopted to show what a Christian woman she was, just look what a wonderful thing they did and what an ungrateful pair they are.  I think both Sheila and jeremy had every right to hate.  Then as they grew they were still controlled, their partners weren’t good enough, they didn’t approve of them etc etc.  How could either of them have a clue what a good relationship was, they probably both suffered from very low self esteem and lack of self awareness, no wonder they both took drugs. Just a huge tragedy for both of them imo.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 03:19:PM
The main player in this drama, Freddie Fox, is another who'll have splinters in his bum as he has no opinion about whether JB is guilty or not--------which doesn't make sense to me when he's playing the part of an alleged murderer. Will it not confuse the audience if he's not seen entering the farmhouse ? I wonder how they're going to get around this ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 03:27:PM
Im sure both he and Sheila did hate their mother most of the time however hard they tried not to.  If all you have known your whole life is that you are not good enough and don’t come up to standard, if you have always been told you should be grateful for being adopted, maybe told your mother/family didn’t want you etc. It is a very tough call.  Possibly she or both discussed their disappointment with their children, with family, friends and colleagues, no doubt June told people they were adopted to show what a Christian woman she was, just look what a wonderful thing they did and what an ungrateful pair they are.  I think both Sheila and jeremy had every right to hate.  Then as they grew they were still controlled, their partners weren’t good enough, they didn’t approve of them etc etc.  How could either of them have a clue what a good relationship was, they probably both suffered from very low self esteem and lack of self awareness, no wonder they both took drugs. Just a huge tragedy for both of them imo.
I think there’s a difference between self hating someone Maggie, to telling all and sundry, I understand now and again the odd comments, but it was a constant drip feed from Jeremy, hence the expression I think he suffered with a loose tongue. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 03:28:PM
The main player in this drama, Freddie Fox, is another who'll have splinters in his bum as he has no opinion about whether JB is guilty or not--------which doesn't make sense to me when he's playing the part of an alleged murderer. Will it not confuse the audience if he's not seen entering the farmhouse ? I wonder how they're going to get around this ?
Actors are actors Lookout, they get paid to entertain
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 03:32:PM
The main player in this drama, Freddie Fox, is another who'll have splinters in his bum as he has no opinion about whether JB is guilty or not--------which doesn't make sense to me when he's playing the part of an alleged murderer. Will it not confuse the audience if he's not seen entering the farmhouse ? I wonder how they're going to get around this ?


Lookout, he's an 'ector' from a great family of 'ectors'! I'm totally confident that he'll make a convincing job of the role. Rather like going into the counselling room, when one steps onto the stage, all thoughts of self are left behind. "WE" no longer count. It's client and audience. Debriefing comes later.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 03:45:PM

Lookout, he's an 'ector' from a great family of 'ectors'! I'm totally confident that he'll make a convincing job of the role. Rather like going into the counselling room, when one steps onto the stage, all thoughts of self are left behind. "WE" no longer count. It's client and audience. Debriefing comes later.





It might have been better if he'd have actually met the man he was portraying rather than relying on different people to tell him what he was like. Wrong end of the stick springs to mind such as CAL's  admittance of gossip to stretch it a bit.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 03:46:PM
Im sure both he and Sheila did hate their mother most of the time however hard they tried not to.  If all you have known your whole life is that you are not good enough and don’t come up to standard, if you have always been told you should be grateful for being adopted, maybe told your mother/family didn’t want you etc. It is a very tough call.  Possibly she or both discussed their disappointment with their children, with family, friends and colleagues, no doubt June told people they were adopted to show what a Christian woman she was, just look what a wonderful thing they did and what an ungrateful pair they are.  I think both Sheila and jeremy had every right to hate.  Then as they grew they were still controlled, their partners weren’t good enough, they didn’t approve of them etc etc.  How could either of them have a clue what a good relationship was, they probably both suffered from very low self esteem and lack of self awareness, no wonder they both took drugs. Just a huge tragedy for both of them imo.

The big problem, Maggie, is to arrive at a place of murderous hate, the start point has to be adoring love. That would be the sort of unconditional love a child has for it's caregiver and expects to have it in return. When this love is withheld, the child takes the view that it must be 'bad' and tries even harder to obtain it. It will go on trying. Sadly, it's highly likely that the child will never find anyone who gives them that approval -it will be alien to them- what they've never experienced will take a long time for them to learn how to receive. I believe Sheila carried on trying. I suspect Jeremy built a protective wall around himself and stopped trying. Perhaps revenge was a sweeter dish?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 03:50:PM




It might have been better if he'd have actually met the man he was portraying rather than relying on different people to tell him what he was like. Wrong end of the stick springs to mind such as CAL's  admittance of gossip to stretch it a bit.

Allegedly, he chose not to. I get it. He's aware of the part he has to play. I hope you're not stretching it a bit, making a banquet out of a crispbread by alluding to CAL's admission.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 04:03:PM
I think there’s a difference between self hating someone Maggie, to telling all and sundry, I understand now and again the odd comments, but it was a constant drip feed from Jeremy, hence the expression I think he suffered with a loose tongue.
Ex Army Officer named James Richards who took the stand, he remembered having a conversation with a Jeremy in the summer of 1985 when Jeremy Said “ I hate my Fucking Parents” he said it two or three times. So like I say, it’s constantly playing in his head, it’s not a spur of the moment, it’s like a disease with in him and it makes the Motif appear stronger.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 04:14:PM
Im sure both he and Sheila did hate their mother most of the time however hard they tried not to.  If all you have known your whole life is that you are not good enough and don’t come up to standard, if you have always been told you should be grateful for being adopted, maybe told your mother/family didn’t want you etc. It is a very tough call.  Possibly she or both discussed their disappointment with their children, with family, friends and colleagues, no doubt June told people they were adopted to show what a Christian woman she was, just look what a wonderful thing they did and what an ungrateful pair they are.  I think both Sheila and jeremy had every right to hate.  Then as they grew they were still controlled, their partners weren’t good enough, they didn’t approve of them etc etc.  How could either of them have a clue what a good relationship was, they probably both suffered from very low self esteem and lack of self awareness, no wonder they both took drugs. Just a huge tragedy for both of them imo.
I try to understand the hurt caused to some who have been adopted or fostered, my wife was fostered, the rejection inside must be so hurtful and I’ve not got to lose track of that hurt, I’m fortunate that I’ve never had cause to come even close to saying I hate my parents.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 04:18:PM
I try to understand the hurt caused to some who have been adopted or fostered, my wife was fostered, the rejection inside must be so hurtful and I’ve not got to lose track of that hurt, I’m fortunate that I’ve never had cause to come even close to saying I hate my parents.


No worries, RJ, and it's good to know. Neither has the vast majority, both biological and adopted.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 04:19:PM
Allegedly, he chose not to. I get it. He's aware of the part he has to play. I hope you're not stretching it a bit, making a banquet out of a crispbread by alluding to CAL's admission.





I do think it's a bit " off " to use gossip though as gossip isn't always taken as the truth.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 04:22:PM
Admitting so is worse. She should have kept her trap shut, though I'm aware that many authors can't. :o
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 04:24:PM




I do think it's a bit " off " to use gossip though as gossip isn't always taken as the truth.



I won't be looking for it, Lookout, and I imagine, if such is included, the majority won't recognize it, anyway.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 04:25:PM
Admitting so is worse. She should have kept her trap shut, though I'm aware that many authors can't. :o


I can hear you feel resentful of her, the book, and the series.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 04:42:PM

I can hear you feel resentful of her, the book, and the series.





Not really but I do feel that they can get away with a lot more than the ordinary man in the street, by their use of words for a start. This goes for many who are in the public eye. I would probably have followed the series in a better frame of mind if it had been written by the likes of Peter James who's written many crime books so knows more than just a hint of gossip to please his readers.   
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 04:48:PM




Not really but I do feel that they can get away with a lot more than the ordinary man in the street, by their use of words for a start. This goes for many who are in the public eye. I would probably have followed the series in a better frame of mind if it had been written by the likes of Peter James who's written many crime books so knows more than just a hint of gossip to please his readers.


Why don't you reserve judgement, Lookout. It maybe that even though you don't agree with it, it will be well presented.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 04:52:PM
Ex Army Officer named James Richards who took the stand, he remembered having a conversation with a Jeremy in the summer of 1985 when Jeremy Said “ I hate my Fucking Parents” he said it two or three times. So like I say, it’s constantly playing in his head, it’s not a spur of the moment, it’s like a disease with in him and it makes the Motif appear stronger.

what was his relationship to  Jeremy and the family ?

also i have often wondered how many of the people who actually worked with him or lived very close by were actually called in to testify

I have  neice who keeps telling her mother she wishes she would jump of a bridge so she can get at her money - i am not sure she accepts the consequence of a loose tongue. i might tell her to watch then programme .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 05:00:PM
that's confusing you say ex army officer - but in some places it says student ? Was he someone Jeremy know from the pub?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 05:02:PM
what was his relationship to  Jeremy and the family ?

also i have often wondered how many of the people who actually worked with him or lived very close by were actually called in to testify

I have  neice who keeps telling her mother she wishes she would jump of a bridge so she can get at her money - i am not sure she accepts the consequence of a loose tongue. i might tell her to watch then programme .
He was a friend of Julies Jan, I think he shared the flat with her? Jeremy admitted it was the sort of thing young people might say when complaining about their parents, although he denied saying it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 05:07:PM
He was a friend of Julies Jan, I think he shared the flat with her? Jeremy admitted it was the sort of thing young people might say when complaining about their parents, although he denied saying it.


I seem to recall that there were a couple of military chaps living in the flat. The objected to grass being smoked? Perhaps the smell clung to their uniforms? I may be well off track with this.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 05:10:PM
he was a student at the time - who went on to be in the army . it just sounded as if he was an older army officer giving evidence . So I was confused .

an acquaintance then
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 05:11:PM
It's usually those who remain silent are the ones to watch because you don't know what they're thinking. The ones with the loose tongues never worry me, though foolish.  They're a bit like the  " empty vessels"------

It just shows how utterly thick Jeremy was for speaking about his parents in this manner though as it could have given someone else carte-blanche to have carried out the murders leaving him to carry the can as it was he who'd said it in the first place  ::)  It's damned dangerous and JB should have known better. Walls have ears !!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 05:11:PM
that's confusing you say ex army officer - but in some places it says student ? Was he someone Jeremy know from the pub?
Hi Jan, yes it is a bit, but it just says an ex Army officer called James Richards who rented a room at her digs in Lewisham?  It says the jury heard from a student friend of Julie’s?  Average age of graduates from Sandhurst was 23 years old?  Maybe he had been a cadet type at Sandhurst?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 05:14:PM
he was a student at the time - who went on to be in the army . it just sounded as if he was an older army officer giving evidence . So I was confused .

an acquaintance then
Yes they probably glammed him up a bit 🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 05:18:PM
Thanks Jan for your honest opinion, like I say, I’ve nothing whatsoever against campaigning, it back fires when people realise it’s false, they should stick to truth.  They wanted some input in the series and they were rebuffed and this is their revenge.  I don’t think any tv production company would run a series and hope to make a loss, it’s sad that it’s these type of programmes are what viewers want, it’s shows this is the case because an American channel have bought it, there’s a huge market for true crime stories, I think it stems from a fear of crime, a search for motifs that will  challenges the brain and a feeling for the victims.  We’re all detectives aren’t we 👍


As you like to quote all things bad about Jeremy why don’t you give an honest rundown on the Eaton’s and the running of the caravan park they only took control of because of the murders

An honest opinion of how they have treated people who had kept their caravans at the park for years
You have touched on it previously but I think you worked there and the Eaton’s behaviour shows a real greed for money and no integrity or loyalty towards existing caravan owners
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 05:36:PM

As you like to quote all things bad about Jeremy why don’t you give an honest rundown on the Eaton’s and the running of the caravan park they only took control of because of the murders

An honest opinion of how they have treated people who had kept their caravans at the park for years
You have touched on it previously but I think you worked there and the Eaton’s behaviour shows a real greed for money and no integrity or loyalty towards existing caravan owners
I don’t know how they treat their people Jackie I never worked there, if you read my posts I knew of them from BHHP that’s an association of Holiday park owners, I used to go to meetings and the general feel and it’s my personal view, I would treat customers better, it wasn’t just that holiday park, it’s every Caravan park throughout England, they all sing from the same hymn sheet.  My advice to anyone Don’t bloody buy a static unless your prepared to lose a lot of money when you leave.  They have every angled covered (not just them) that’s why I’m not a millionaire, I wouldn’t make as much money.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 05:49:PM
that's a bit like blackening Jeremys character though - it does not make him a killer.

And I also heard that the family were not popular when they took over the park - but that does not make them liars either - maybe just running the business in a different way .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 05:57:PM
that's a bit like blackening Jeremys character though - it does not make him a killer.

And I also heard that the family were not popular when they took over the park - but that does not make them liars either - maybe just running the business in a different way .
Don't get you Jan,  how am I Blackening his character with that post?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 06:05:PM
that's a bit like blackening Jeremys character though - it does not make him a killer.

And I also heard that the family were not popular when they took over the park - but that does not make them liars either - maybe just running the business in a different way .


How is it possible to blacken the character of a killer, because until such time as he's totally exonerated of any involvement, surely, that what he is, and that's what he remains.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 06:13:PM
Don't get you Jan,  how am I Blackening his character with that post?

I meant in general on here

not you
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 06:15:PM
I meant in general on here

not you
Oh sorry, I thought you were answering my post Jan, 🙈🙈🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 06:20:PM

How is it possible to blacken the character of a killer, because until such time as he's totally exonerated of any involvement, surely, that what he is, and that's what he remains.


Of course in the eyes of the law that is correct .

But it would have been harder to convict a person who had never stepped out of line would  it not - so of course the police would use every trick in the book . they have admitted it themselves in other cases .

Like i said i have spoken to someone who knew him as well  and as happens in many peoples circles there were obviously people who liked him and people who did not . A bit like a prime minister (:

But there are a lot of posters on here who revel in embellishing statements for their own purposes . 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 06:23:PM

Of course in the eyes of the law that is correct .

But it would have been harder to convict a person who had never stepped out of line would  it not - so of course the police would use every trick in the book . they have admitted it themselves in other cases .

Like i said i have spoken to someone who knew him as well  and as happens in many peoples circles there were obviously people who liked him and people who did not . A bit like a prime minister (:

But there are a lot of posters on here who revel in embellishing statements for their own purposes .
From both sides may I add 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 06:24:PM

Of course in the eyes of the law that is correct .

But it would have been harder to convict a person who had never stepped out of line would  it not - so of course the police would use every trick in the book . they have admitted it themselves in other cases .

Like i said i have spoken to someone who knew him as well  and as happens in many peoples circles there were obviously people who liked him and people who did not . A bit like a prime minister (:

But there are a lot of posters on here who revel in embellishing statements for their own purposes .


I'd be more guilty of not reading them! However, I'm aware that there are those here who have a penchant for rearranging words to suit their own purposes.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 06:27:PM

Of course in the eyes of the law that is correct .

But it would have been harder to convict a person who had never stepped out of line would  it not - so of course the police would use every trick in the book . they have admitted it themselves in other cases .

Like i said i have spoken to someone who knew him as well  and as happens in many peoples circles there were obviously people who liked him and people who did not . A bit like a prime minister (:

But there are a lot of posters on here who revel in embellishing statements for their own purposes .
Your opening the Pandora’s box now Jan, behave 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 06:28:PM

As you like to quote all things bad about Jeremy why don’t you give an honest rundown on the Eaton’s and the running of the caravan park they only took control of because of the murders

An honest opinion of how they have treated people who had kept their caravans at the park for years
You have touched on it previously but I think you worked there and the Eaton’s behaviour shows a real greed for money and no integrity or loyalty towards existing caravan owners
iam a close friend on ann,s,she would be very sad to hear you say that
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 03, 2020, 06:31:PM
iam a close friend on ann,s,she would be very sad to hear you say that


It's clear that a response, discrediting Ann and the family business, is wanted from someone else.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 06:34:PM

It's clear that a response, discrediting Ann and the family business, is wanted from someone else.
yes i agree jane
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 06:34:PM
Hi sami are you a good friend of Ann Eaton or are you having a larf xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 06:38:PM
Hi sami are you a good friend of Ann Eaton or are you having a larf xx
hi susan yes,didnt really want to say it on the forum because of any future repercussions :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 06:39:PM
Susan, keep your friends close and your enemies closer :) ;)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 06:39:PM
Jan I know of some posters on here who hate Jeremy Bamber with a passion.  I always feel it is better to leave an area of doubt whatever stance you are on.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 06:41:PM
Lookout very good advice xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 06:42:PM
Hi sami I do apologise for not taking your post seriously I am sure she is a very nice lady :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 06:45:PM
Susan, keep your friends close and your enemies closer :) ;)
i hope iam not going to be regarded as an enemy now :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 06:49:PM
i hope iam not going to be regarded as an enemy now :)





Well you can't choose your family, can you ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 06:51:PM
I don’t know how they treat their people Jackie I never worked there, if you read my posts I knew of them from BHHP that’s an association of Holiday park owners, I used to go to meetings and the general feel and it’s my personal view, I would treat customers better, it wasn’t just that holiday park, it’s every Caravan park throughout England, they all sing from the same hymn sheet.  My advice to anyone Don’t bloody buy a static unless your prepared to lose a lot of money when you leave.  They have every angled covered (not just them) that’s why I’m not a millionaire, I wouldn’t make as much money.

Yes I know exactly what you mean I know a couple of people who had static caravans there
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 06:55:PM
Lookout how could we think of sami as our enemy he is our lovely friend.  Don't  be worrying my friend we will protect you :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 06:56:PM
Hi sami I do apologise for not taking your post seriously I am sure she is a very nice lady :)
she,s a very kind hearted person susan,theres lots i could say but i wont.xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 06:58:PM
iam a close friend on ann,s,she would be very sad to hear you say that

It’s a fact, things changed when the bambers were not around anymore

But like RJ said the people who make lots of money out of caravan parks don’t have much integrity

A friend of Anne’s are you? Have you got a nursing background?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 07:01:PM
It’s a fact, things changed when the bambers were not around anymore

But like RJ said the people who make lots of money out of caravan parks don’t have much integrity

A friend of Anne’s are you? Have you got a nursing background?
thats exactly why ,i dint want to say stuff on the forum
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 03, 2020, 07:02:PM
Sami no harm in telling the truth about the lady but she may not like it so you are right not to say too much :) 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 07:04:PM
Yes I know exactly what you mean I know a couple of people who had static caravans there
It’s not just there Jackie, it’s in general I’m afraid.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 07:09:PM
It’s not just there Jackie, it’s in general I’m afraid.

I know
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 07:36:PM
It’s a fact, things changed when the bambers were not around anymore

But like RJ said the people who make lots of money out of caravan parks don’t have much integrity

A friend of Anne’s are you? Have you got a nursing background?
I don’t think the Bambers would have differed one bit Jackie, as I said before they all sang from the same hymn sheet, they all seemed to fall in line and copied each other, odd one or two maybe, but they still had their own cut throat way.

It’s a win win for them, they make on a sale, they make more on a return.  10% to 15% I would say pack in each year, this is a big earner for them, rents go up every year regardless.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 07:37:PM
Well that's gone down like a lead balloon hasn't it ?  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 07:39:PM
Well that's gone down like a lead balloon hasn't it ?  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
 
Im being honest Lookout, I worked in the area, I knew how it worked I wouldn’t lie to you my friend 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 07:41:PM
Im being honest Lookout, I worked in the area, I knew how it worked I wouldn’t lie to you my friend 👍





It's not you RJ .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 07:47:PM




It's not you RJ .
Oh sorry Lookout, I’m getting posts confused I did one with Jan earlier 🙈🙈🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 07:52:PM
Well that's gone down like a lead balloon hasn't it ?  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
 
Well I don’t see what’s changed really, everyone thought I were part of the family 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 07:57:PM
Well I don’t see what’s changed really, everyone thought I were part of the family 😂😂😂






You never said you were though.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 03, 2020, 08:02:PM
I try to understand the hurt caused to some who have been adopted or fostered, my wife was fostered, the rejection inside must be so hurtful and I’ve not got to lose track of that hurt, I’m fortunate that I’ve never had cause to come even close to saying I hate my parents.
If an adoptive mother doesn’t understand it is a lifetimes work then they are not really fit to be in such a privileged position imo.  Vulnerable babies/children/adult adoptees deserve unconditional love and respect for their situation which allows them to build self esteem.  I have seen the love/hate struggle by an adoptee trying to love her abusive mother but hating her at the same time.  I can see how that could and has boiled over into violence, if she killed her mother it could be called a ‘crime of passion’.  Not sure if cold blooded, premeditated murder would ever be considered in such a situation.  I wonder if once the adoptive child gives up and stops trying to find that love within the mother would she care any more? Would she bother?  Maybe if she wanted to be free once and for all. Not sure.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 08:07:PM
hi susan yes,didnt really want to say it on the forum because of any future repercussions :)


I would not worry about it too much .


I have learnt to understand that people who think Jeremys conviction is correct emphasise all his bad points and people who think he is innocent have to do the same to those that they think are responsible .

It took me a long time to learn not to believe "opinions" and try and stick to the documents.

however those documents keep throwing up lots of questions . Otherwise we would all still not be here.


For example Anne has been called Miss Marple for making all her notes and being suspicious . In retrospect I would also be that person . I saw a robbery happening once and I immediately made notes of everything I saw . Just for reference and because  I was angry .

but I would love to know where her notes are about finding the silencer .



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 08:09:PM





You never said you were though.
I know Lookout I thought Anne was Bambi at first 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 08:12:PM

I would not worry about it too much .


I have learnt to understand that people who think Jeremys conviction is correct emphasise all his bad points and people who think he is innocent have to do the same to those that they think are responsible .

It took me a long time to learn not to believe "opinions" and try and stick to the documents.

however those documents keep throwing up lots of questions . Otherwise we would all still not be here.


For example Anne has been called Miss Marple for making all her notes and being suspicious . In retrospect I would also be that person . I saw a robbery happening once and I immediately made notes of everything I saw . Just for reference and because  I was angry .

but I would love to know where her notes are about finding the silencer .
she is very untrusting,unless you have known her for long time but than who could blame her
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 08:14:PM
she is very untrusting,unless you have known her for long time but than who could blame her

In her position - who wouldn't be?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 08:17:PM
If an adoptive mother doesn’t understand it is a lifetimes work then they are not really fit to be in such a privileged position imo.  Vulnerable babies/children/adult adoptees deserve unconditional love and respect for their situation which allows them to build self esteem.  I have seen the love/hate struggle by an adoptee trying to love her abusive mother but hating her at the same time.  I can see how that could and has boiled over into violence, if she killed her mother it could be called a ‘crime of passion’.  Not sure if cold blooded, premeditated murder would ever be considered in such a situation.  I wonder if once the adoptive child gives up and stops trying to find that love within the mother would she care any more? Would she bother?  Maybe if she wanted to be free once and for all. Not sure.
Good  post Maggie and some good points, I feel more inclined to feel  this was a hatred and greed crime not just hatred Maggie 🙈
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 08:18:PM
Good  post Maggie and some good points, I feel more inclined to feel  this was a hatred and greed crime not just hatred Maggie 🙈

I think mainly greed.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 08:19:PM
In her position - who wouldn't be?
exactly caroline,having known her for quite a while she has discussed the murders with me over the years in more detail
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 03, 2020, 08:27:PM
I think mainly greed.
Im not sure, these relationships are complicated.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 08:29:PM
Im not sure, these relationships are complicated.

Most are Maggie - in the grand scheme. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 08:33:PM

I would not worry about it too much .


I have learnt to understand that people who think Jeremys conviction is correct emphasise all his bad points and people who think he is innocent have to do the same to those that they think are responsible .

It took me a long time to learn not to believe "opinions" and try and stick to the documents.

however those documents keep throwing up lots of questions . Otherwise we would all still not be here.


For example Anne has been called Miss Marple for making all her notes and being suspicious . In retrospect I would also be that person . I saw a robbery happening once and I immediately made notes of everything I saw . Just for reference and because  I was angry .

but I would love to know where her notes are about finding the silencer .
jan there was some talk of a sd card the original notes maybe long gone
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 08:43:PM
They were running scared that an " outsider " was going to take over what they had down as theirs----horrible.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 08:59:PM
They were running scared that an " outsider " was going to take over what they had down as theirs----horrible.
I have to agree Lookout, but I do believe they were convinced that Sheila wasn’t to blame, I would think any family involved in any tragedy like this,   would see things different with what  they found unbelievable circumstances as the story unfolded.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 09:06:PM
They were running scared that an " outsider " was going to take over what they had down as theirs----horrible.
she may have said that she had a loving relationship with jb in the past before the murders
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 09:16:PM
They were running scared that an " outsider " was going to take over what they had down as theirs----horrible.
I don’t think they were seeing pound signs at first Lookout, think how anyone would react if they were told the same story?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 09:20:PM
I don’t think they were seeing pound signs at first Lookout, think how anyone would react if they were told the same story?
quite true rj,one cant blame the family specially not poor ann
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 09:33:PM
I have to agree Lookout, but I do believe they were convinced that Sheila wasn’t to blame, I would think any family involved in any tragedy like this,   would see things different with what  they found unbelievable circumstances as the story unfolded.





I'm more than aware that most would have pointed a finger at Jeremy in favour of his sister but those involved in the investigation were very wrong in pre-judging that " it must have been Jeremy " and come the trial which was so one-sided that Jeremy never stood a chance even his defence let him down when Rivlin could have done far more for him. The whole thing disgusts me from start to finish.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, in other words the whole family should have been interrogated, they'd have soon got to the truth of why they wanted Jeremy locked up for life.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 09:38:PM




I'm more than aware that most would have pointed a finger at Jeremy in favour of his sister but those involved in the investigation were very wrong in pre-judging that " it must have been Jeremy " and come the trial which was so one-sided that Jeremy never stood a chance even his defence let him down when Rivlin could have done far more for him. The whole thing disgusts me from start to finish.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, in other words the whole family should have been interrogated, they'd have soon got to the truth of why they wanted Jeremy locked up for life.
thats a bit harsh lookout,plus the pre judging you mention was started by taff
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 09:44:PM




I'm more than aware that most would have pointed a finger at Jeremy in favour of his sister but those involved in the investigation were very wrong in pre-judging that " it must have been Jeremy " and come the trial which was so one-sided that Jeremy never stood a chance even his defence let him down when Rivlin could have done far more for him. The whole thing disgusts me from start to finish.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, in other words the whole family should have been interrogated, they'd have soon got to the truth of why they wanted Jeremy locked up for life.
The official police line was four murders and a suicide Lookout, the only mistake in pre judging was the wrong suspect.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 10:01:PM
thats a bit harsh lookout,plus the pre judging you mention was started by taff





No, " Taff " had known as soon as he entered the farmhouse that it was a murder/suicide he'd faced. There was no pre-judging there. It was straightforward. It was Stan Jones who did the pre-judging.

I'm learning quite a bit at the moment as I'm in contact with an investigative criminologist.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 10:04:PM
thats a bit harsh lookout,plus the pre judging you mention was started by taff

Against Sheila.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 10:07:PM




No, " Taff " had known as soon as he entered the farmhouse that it was a murder/suicide he'd faced. There was no pre-judging there. It was straightforward. It was Stan Jones who did the pre-judging.

I'm learning quite a bit at the moment as I'm in contact with an investigative criminologist.

He had a cursory glance around and took Bambers word for what happened - he prejudged without investigating.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 03, 2020, 10:11:PM




No, " Taff " had known as soon as he entered the farmhouse that it was a murder/suicide he'd faced. There was no pre-judging there. It was straightforward. It was Stan Jones who did the pre-judging.

I'm learning quite a bit at the moment as I'm in contact with an investigative criminologist.
yes but 10 members of a jury thought taff was wrong,who are we to judge law abiding members of a jury with good character :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 03, 2020, 10:12:PM
He had a cursory glance around and took Bambers word for what happened - he prejudged without investigating.
It was Stan who was hands on, he was in the mix and I find it hard to believe he would try and turn an investigation this big through sheer spite or pressure
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 10:35:PM
It was Stan who was hands on, he was in the mix and I find it hard to believe he would try and turn an investigation this big through sheer spite or pressure





Stan Jones disliked Jeremy from the outset, so that helped when others joined in with their grouses about JB then when JM came along, SJ must have thought all his Christmas's had come at once and so it continued.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 10:38:PM




Stan Jones disliked Jeremy from the outset, so that helped when others joined in with their grouses about JB then when JM came along, SJ must have thought all his Christmas's had come at once and so it continued.

He didn't like him because he knew there was something not right about him.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 10:38:PM
He had a cursory glance around and took Bambers word for what happened - he prejudged without investigating.





It was " something " he'd pre-judged, not " someone ".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 10:40:PM




It was " something " he'd pre-judged, not " someone ".

He prejudged Sheila as the killer.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 10:43:PM
He didn't like him because he knew there was something not right about him.

You believe him saying he knew there was something was not right about him.

But he didn’t know though did he
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 10:48:PM
It was Stan who was hands on, he was in the mix and I find it hard to believe he would try and turn an investigation this big through sheer spite or pressure

The amount of corruption in Essex Police has always been bad. As if by mistake evidence was destroyed. That is by by far one of the biggest cover ups ever.
The biggest murder case in Essex Police history and evidence gets destroyed when the case is going to appeal
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 10:50:PM
He didn't like him because he knew there was something not right about him.






It was because SJ was dealing with a smart arse and police don't like smart arse's, especially those like JB who are better educated. Police would rather handle the ones who don't answer back and go quietly.
Nothing to do with something not being right about him at all.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 03, 2020, 11:00:PM
Stan Jones didn't like Bamber from the outset. Ask yourself this. Bamber is taking a big gamble isn't he. In for example telling his beloved of his plans not knowing how they'd react once In police vicinity. And also by leaving a silencer in a house that he knew would be ultimately searched at some point....
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 03, 2020, 11:15:PM
I'd have reacted in the same way if I'd thought I hadn't done anything while some mighty mouth was trying his best to trip me up.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 03, 2020, 11:21:PM
yes but 10 members of a jury thought taff was wrong,who are we to judge law abiding members of a jury with good character :)

They were also told sheilas blood was on the silencer and that is by no means a 100% fact .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 03, 2020, 11:27:PM





It was because SJ was dealing with a smart arse and police don't like smart arse's, especially those like JB who are better educated. Police would rather handle the ones who don't answer back and go quietly.
Nothing to do with something not being right about him at all.

Just the other day people were saying he wasn't educated.  ::)
Jones thought there was something 'not right' about him.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 03, 2020, 11:39:PM
I'd have reacted in the same way if I'd thought I hadn't done anything while some mighty mouth was trying his best to trip me up.
Me too Lookout
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 07:02:AM
I'd have reacted in the same way if I'd thought I hadn't done anything while some mighty mouth was trying his best to trip me up.
How would you also react, if your mothers sister had been murdered and the only living family member is giving conflicting accounts of events?  The first thing Anne was alerted to was the fact that Jeremy couldn’t make his mind up if he had shot at the rabbits or not?      We wasn’t there Lookout to hear or see his facial expressions,we wasn’t there to witness what the family listened to, we never got the chance to look into his eyes and see his eye contact,  we never listened to his stories that didn’t ring true.  Jeremy backtracked on this story for a reason, it didn’t matter if he fired or he didn’t, but he obviously had second thoughts?

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 07:35:AM
The amount of corruption in Essex Police has always been bad. As if by mistake evidence was destroyed. That is by by far one of the biggest cover ups ever.
The biggest murder case in Essex Police history and evidence gets destroyed when the case is going to appeal
i do know Essex police trust me, yes they have a reputation like lots of police forces I agree and I have spoke of this before, maybe it would have been so much different if “Taff” hadn’t read the carnage wrong from the start, it was only an Opinion of his that it was murder Suicide, His Opinion wasn’t based on what followed and opinion’s are not always right.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 08:34:AM
They were also told sheilas blood was on the silencer and that is by no means a 100% fact .
iam sure the defence mentioned that at trial,but iam also sure the jury members didnt find him guilty on that fact alone
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 07:02:PM
iam sure the defence mentioned that at trial,but iam also sure the jury members didnt find him guilty on that fact alone

I agree Sami.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 04, 2020, 07:06:PM
Nobody knows why the jury found him guilty (apart from two of them). This isn't the US where juries talk to the press afterwards.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 04, 2020, 07:11:PM
You'd have thought that for a mass murder the result would have been unanimous beyond reasonable doubt ? But it wasn't as 2 people didn't believe him guilty.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 07:25:PM
You'd have thought that for a mass murder the result would have been unanimous beyond reasonable doubt ? But it wasn't as 2 people didn't believe him guilty.


I guess it's something for supporters to cling to.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 04, 2020, 07:27:PM

I guess it's something for supporters to cling to.





Not only supporters but those guilters who've got a modicum of understanding of the case.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 04, 2020, 07:27:PM
Nobody knows why the jury found him guilty (apart from two of them). This isn't the US where juries talk to the press afterwards.

This is a passage from CALs book.

"One former member of the investigation team who does not wish to be named asked the jury foreman afterwards if there had been a deciding factor. He was told: ‘It was all down to the judge’s summing up. He directed us to find Jeremy guilty and that’s why we did, in the end. If it hadn’t been for the judge telling us what we should do, he would have walked free.’"

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 04, 2020, 07:30:PM
Like sheep being led to the slaughter  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 07:38:PM
Like sheep being led to the slaughter  ::)


I totally agree, Lookout. If you or I had been on that jury, for differing reasons, we'd still be sitting there. Despite what judges say, some jurors have minds of their own.

Re Jeremy as "lamb to the slaughter", I rather think it was he who did the leading. He's more than partly responsible for where he is now. A bit more sorrow and humility -had he felt any- may have seen him a free man.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 04, 2020, 08:11:PM
I suppose" head held high and stick your neck out " when telling the truth didn't cut it for the local yokels as they must have read his message wrong. ???
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 08:17:PM
I suppose" head held high and stick your neck out " when telling the truth didn't cut it for the local yokels as they must have read his message wrong. ???


Isn't it a little judgemental to refer to all jury members as being "local yokels". It would certainly have put my back up but I don't like rudeness. From how it sounds -and no, I wasn't there- he sneered.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 04, 2020, 08:23:PM
This is a passage from CALs book.

"One former member of the investigation team who does not wish to be named asked the jury foreman afterwards if there had been a deciding factor. He was told: ‘It was all down to the judge’s summing up. He directed us to find Jeremy guilty and that’s why we did, in the end. If it hadn’t been for the judge telling us what we should do, he would have walked free.’"
to quote drake," on the evidence of the silencer alone you may find Bamber guilty"
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 04, 2020, 08:24:PM

Isn't it a little judgemental to refer to all jury members as being "local yokels". It would certainly have put my back up but I don't like rudeness. From how it sounds -and no, I wasn't there- he sneered.
he was arragont. It has cost him 35 years of his life almost
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 04, 2020, 08:39:PM
And with that as he was led to the cells his arrogance and stiff upper-lip gave way to a complete breakdown in floods of tears as he sat holding his head in disbelief.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 04, 2020, 08:45:PM
to quote drake," on the evidence of the silencer alone you may find Bamber guilty"

And we all know about the reliability of the silencer evidence
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 04, 2020, 08:45:PM

I totally agree, Lookout. If you or I had been on that jury, for differing reasons, we'd still be sitting there. Despite what judges say, some jurors have minds of their own.

Re Jeremy as "lamb to the slaughter", I rather think it was he who did the leading. He's more than partly responsible for where he is now. A bit more sorrow and humility -had he felt any- may have seen him a free man.

Are you saying that the other evidence counted for nothing, and that he was convicted because of his manner?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 04, 2020, 08:50:PM
to quote drake," on the evidence of the silencer alone you may find Bamber guilty"

Thanks . That’s what I was going to say . It was a very important factor.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 09:02:PM
Thanks . That’s what I was going to say . It was a very important factor.
lets get one thing clear the judge did not order them to find jb guilty as most would like to think and no he didnt make their minds up for them. judges are given a certain amount of leyway in a case where he may help the jury come to a verdict ,saying you MAY and saying YOU WILL.are two different things
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 04, 2020, 09:09:PM
They didn't have to be looking for it even. It should have been just simply discovered. Policing in the UK in reference to search teams may not have been advanced as today. But I can't imagine it was so lacklustre that it did not discover the moderator (silencer) as part of routine inquiry/search
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 04, 2020, 09:12:PM
Many people who are convinced of Jeremy Bambers guilt will simply claim in reply to this that they were just hanging onto every word he said. No no no, that is not how a crime scene is handled. Bamber was a member of the public. He was never dictating the police agenda
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 09:23:PM
lets get one thing clear the judge did not order them to find jb guilty as most would like to think and no he didnt make their minds up for them. judges are given a certain amount of leyway in a case where he may help the jury come to a verdict ,saying you MAY and saying YOU WILL.are two different things

Of course.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 09:25:PM
everyones having the blame put on them the police,the judge,the jury.everone but jb :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 04, 2020, 09:26:PM
Many people who are convinced of Jeremy Bambers guilt will simply claim in reply to this that they were just hanging onto every word he said. No no no, that is not how a crime scene is handled. Bamber was a member of the public. He was never dictating the police agenda

Thank you for that . I totally agree that his alleged influence over the police has been exaggerated. He had no way of knowing that they would not call back up immediately and enter the property and establish a time of death . Especially if they allegedly heard and saw nothing ? And he begged them to go in and save his family .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 09:27:PM
everyones having the blame put on them the police,the judge,the jury.everone but jb :)) :))

Same as it ever was  :-\
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 09:35:PM
Thank you for that . I totally agree that his alleged influence over the police has been exaggerated. He had no way of knowing that they would not call back up immediately and enter the property and establish a time of death . Especially if they allegedly heard and saw nothing ? And he begged them to go in and save his family .
if he was so desperate for them to go in than he should have kept his mouth shut,to say shes mad and shes fired every gun in the house is hardy going to make police eager to enter until they have no other choice. :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 09:37:PM
if he was so desperate for them to go in than he should have kept his mouth shut,to say shes mad and shes fired every gun in the house is hardy going to make police eager to enter until they have no other choice. :)
Quite right Sami, he set his sister up, I would have said the opposite for fear her getting shot.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 09:42:PM
Quite right Sami, he set his sister up, I would have said the opposite for fear her getting shot.
Or, “don’t fetch the bloody firearms team, let me go and talk to her first, please let me try and talk to her and my parents”.  Instead of hiding behind Bewes then laughing after that Bewes shit himself, the yellow back coward.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 09:43:PM
if he was so desperate for them to go in than he should have kept his mouth shut,to say shes mad and shes fired every gun in the house is hardy going to make police eager to enter until they have no other choice. :)


Absolutely, Sami. I don't care what's said about what police are told in training, when they're faced with the real thing, ie, a potential and imminent threat to their own lives, they're not going to be in a hurry to act if there's a possible alternative.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 04, 2020, 09:44:PM
I cannot for the life of me fathom to this day, And I didn't take any interest in the case until I started to converse with Bamber in early 1994 when I was serving time and on the same wing at long lartin prison. Where I was serving 9 and half years imprisonment. The fact that a relative simply walked into a scullery and "discovered a silencer" that no member of Essex police couldn't, even if they just did a cursory glance...

Do you recall any of the conversations you had with Jeremy?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 09:45:PM
Or, “don’t fetch the bloody firearms team, let me go and talk to her first, please let me try and talk to her and my parents”.  Instead of hiding behind Bewes then laughing after that Bewes shit himself, the yellow back coward.


Yes, where was all that love and compassion for his beautiful sister?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 09:48:PM

Absolutely, Sami. I don't care what's said about what police are told in training, when they're faced with the real thing, ie, a potential and imminent threat to their own lives, they're not going to be in a hurry to act if there's a possible alternative.
absolutely jane,and we are lucky our police are like that ,had it been america it would be a different matter,they are very gun ho
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 04, 2020, 09:50:PM
everyones having the blame put on them the police,the judge,the jury.everone but jb :)) :))

To be fair not just on this forum.

The press were very critical of the police . Plus I read that some of the legal profession were surprised at the judges summing up .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 04, 2020, 09:52:PM
To be fair not just on this forum.

The press were very critical of the police . Plus I read that some of the legal profession were surprised at the judges summing up .


I'm certain you know the one about not being able to please all of the people all of the time...............
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 09:55:PM
To be fair not just on this forum.

The press were very critical of the police . Plus I read that some of the legal profession were surprised at the judges summing up .
the press will jump on any thing that sells papers or gets large audiences,as for the legal profession there will always be some that show descent
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:08:PM
it gives a strong reference when directing 12 members of the public. You dickhead
shut you fucking mug youre just a prat
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 10:09:PM
shut you fucking mug youre just a prat
Don’t bite Sami your better than him mate
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:11:PM
Don’t bite Sami your better than him mate
thanks mate :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:15:PM
it gives a strong reference when directing 12 members of the public. You dickhead
your pissed again thats why your swearing ive met blokes like you as soon as the prison bus enters the gates mugs like you go straight to the block for protection mug
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 10:19:PM
http://Maybe because you keep bringing it up?

 ::)

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Re: The ITV Drama
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You are ignoring this user.
I cannot for the life of me fathom to this day, And I didn't take any interest in the case until I started to converse with Bamber in early 1994 when I was serving time and on the same wing at long lartin prison. Where I was serving 9 and half years imprisonment. The fact that a relative simply walked into a scullery and "discovered a silencer" that no member of Essex police couldn't, even if they just did a cursory glance...
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Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion / Re: The Truth and the Documentary
« on: December 08, 2019, 08:59:PM »
Quote from: ilovebooze on December 08, 2019, 08:47:PM
long lartin prison Evesham late 93 to may 95
Long way to send you from South Yorkshire Ilovebooze, normally you get sent to prison
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:21:PM
the usernames a moniker. (Google it) what's my time in prison got to do with this discussion eh redband?
your a grass mate and i seen what happens to you lot in the nick, straight to solitary
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:27:PM
your stupid you idiot. Your a screws tea boy redband
sap you were the one that posted on the forum that you wore a red armband,grass
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:30:PM
you have never been in prison have you, I can reference this by way you speak about Bamber you idiot
ive done more bird than you ,mug ,with real men not ones in the protection wing where you was,london nicks will eat saps for breakfast,mug
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:38:PM
do you want to go on blue Peter for your accomplishment? Or do you want some crayons through the post?  I'm not proud of my past. Hence why I know you never did time
youre on ignore,cause when you dont like someones opinion you fall out of your pram
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 10:53:PM
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/2020-01-03/white-house-farm-review/?fbclid=IwAR2JnmN5_bqNRDuIkxegCOlOlTqGzBzqBD1aVHjBpkIs2nOKdbitHvoqRfk
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 10:58:PM
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/2020-01-03/white-house-farm-review/?fbclid=IwAR2JnmN5_bqNRDuIkxegCOlOlTqGzBzqBD1aVHjBpkIs2nOKdbitHvoqRfk
nice caroline,cant wait the fella in the moustache cant remember his name he starred in the brad pit film  snatch
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 11:03:PM
nice caroline,cant wait the fella in the moustache cant remember his name he starred in the brad pit film  snatch

That's Stephen Graham Sami.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 04, 2020, 11:06:PM
That's Stephen Graham Sami.
he played a great role in snatch,who is he playing in the drama
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 11:17:PM
he played a great role in snatch,who is he playing in the drama
Cant wait for it mate 👍👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 11:32:PM
he played a great role in snatch,who is he playing in the drama

Taff Jones.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 04, 2020, 11:43:PM
I am not making assumptions but from the trailers it is not even going to try and cover his possibly of innocence . Which is a shame really . Because it will make it less interesting . I am sure the acting will be amazing though.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 11:45:PM
I am not making assumptions but from the trailers it is not even going to try and cover his possibly of innocence . Which is a shame really . Because it will make it less interesting . I am sure the acting will be amazing though.

They aren't looking at any innocent aspect.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 04, 2020, 11:49:PM
I am not making assumptions but from the trailers it is not even going to try and cover his possibly of innocence . Which is a shame really . Because it will make it less interesting . I am sure the acting will be amazing though.
They will probably show at first they thought him innocent I would think?  Why move from the script after that for a few people’s assumptions?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 05, 2020, 12:25:AM
I am not making assumptions but from the trailers it is not even going to try and cover his possibly of innocence . Which is a shame really . Because it will make it less interesting . I am sure the acting will be amazing though.

Jan it’s all good wait and see what’s following. Ask Jeremy
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 01:07:AM
They aren't looking at any innocent aspect.

But if based on the book by CAL was not the point of her looking and investigating to research the case from all angles ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 01:27:AM
But if based on the book by CAL was not the point of her looking and investigating to research the case from all angles ?

Have you read her book?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 02:09:AM
Have you read her book?


So is my summary wrong ? Can’t you just answer the question?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 02:18:AM

So is my summary wrong ? Can’t you just answer the question?

Yes, it's wrong.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 05, 2020, 09:16:AM
Cant wait for it mate 👍👍


Me too, thousands maybe millions new people taking and interest in the case and wondering how the non disclosure was ever allowed to take place

De je vu

The Guildford Four

Do not show the signed NOTW deal to the defence👍👍👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 05, 2020, 11:16:AM

Me too, thousands maybe millions new people taking and interest in the case and wondering how the non disclosure was ever allowed to take place

De je vu

The Guildford Four

Do not show the signed NOTW deal to the defence👍👍👍
we should wait till hes free before comparing it to guildford 4
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 01:00:PM

Me too, thousands maybe millions new people taking and interest in the case and wondering how the non disclosure was ever allowed to take place

De je vu

The Guildford Four

Do not show the signed NOTW deal to the defence👍👍👍

They won't be discussing non-disclosure.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 05, 2020, 01:42:PM
I am not making assumptions but from the trailers it is not even going to try and cover his possibly of innocence . Which is a shame really . Because it will make it less interesting . I am sure the acting will be amazing though.

That's not what the actor said

"Freddie Fox has said that his performance as real-life White House Farm murderer Jeremy Bamber will be open to interpretation, leaving it up to audiences to decide whether or not Bamber is guilty."

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-16/freddie-fox-viewers-can-decide-whether-white-house-farm-killer-jeremy-bamber-was-guilty/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-16/freddie-fox-viewers-can-decide-whether-white-house-farm-killer-jeremy-bamber-was-guilty/)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 01:50:PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/meetings-jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murderer/
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 01:51:PM
That's not what the actor said

"Freddie Fox has said that his performance as real-life White House Farm murderer Jeremy Bamber will be open to interpretation, leaving it up to audiences to decide whether or not Bamber is guilty."

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-16/freddie-fox-viewers-can-decide-whether-white-house-farm-killer-jeremy-bamber-was-guilty/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-16/freddie-fox-viewers-can-decide-whether-white-house-farm-killer-jeremy-bamber-was-guilty/)

Think you should just watch it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 02:12:PM
Comments from Roger Wilkes;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/meetings-jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murderer/
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 05, 2020, 02:13:PM
I'll watch it for Stephen Graham's acting as I only like Laurence Fox out of the family of them. He was once married to Billie Piper. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 03:47:PM
I'll watch it for Stephen Graham's acting as I only like Laurence Fox out of the family of them. He was once married to Billie Piper.

Yes, I like him too.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2020, 03:55:PM
Think you should just watch it.

You won’t see Bamber shoot the family so that must be what Fox was talking about.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 05, 2020, 08:59:PM
Comments from Roger Wilkes;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/meetings-jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murderer/

Wilkes's book is unbiased. Obviously it is impossible to believe Bamber is innocent after reading it.

Have not read CAL's book.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 09:17:PM
Wilkes's book is unbiased. Obviously it is impossible to believe Bamber is innocent after reading it.

Have not read CAL's book.

If it is impossible to believe innocence it snot that unbiased is it .

Why have you not read the book by CAL?

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 05, 2020, 09:39:PM
Jan I thought Adam would have read all the books available I have Cal's book but not read it all yet just could not get interested in it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 05, 2020, 09:41:PM
Wilkes's book is unbiased. Obviously it is impossible to believe Bamber is innocent after reading it.

Have not read CAL's book.

Wilkes is biased. You only have to compare Wilkes version of judges summing up to the actual summing up to work that out.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 05, 2020, 10:08:PM
According to the Mythster on red, hybristophiliacs are into Bamber. Not sure how the chemistry is supposed to work if the guy insists vehemently he is innocent of any wrong doing. I would have thought that would be a right turn off for them.

(https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/apple/237/face-with-tears-of-joy_1f602.png)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 05, 2020, 10:15:PM
Hi David please forgive my ignorance but what does your post mean I am at a loss :-[ Sorry David.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 10:19:PM
does it mean people obsessed with bristol ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 10:20:PM
Hi David please forgive my ignorance but what does your post mean I am at a loss :-[ Sorry David.



google is your friend Susan.


Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 05, 2020, 10:22:PM
Jan I am getting more confused than ever :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 05, 2020, 10:24:PM
they are saying we are people turned on by people who commit crimes . Hilarious . they must be getting bored.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 12:06:AM
FFS - Calm down  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 06, 2020, 12:44:AM
I see Colin Caffell is re-releasing his book In Search of the Rainbow's End on 9th January...apparently he cooperated with the making of this new drama. It would be interesting to see what amendments, if any, he has made to the original. Sadly that was the one book I never managed to get a hold of.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 09:09:AM
Hello Janet so nice to see you posting again such a shame about Colin's book as I gave mine away last year to a poster on here you could have shared it between you :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 09:47:AM
Caroline I removed my post cos I misread previous posts and realise this was meant more as a joke than a serious matter.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:58:AM
I see Colin Caffell is re-releasing his book In Search of the Rainbow's End on 9th January...apparently he cooperated with the making of this new drama. It would be interesting to see what amendments, if any, he has made to the original. Sadly that was the one book I never managed to get a hold of.





In the same format ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 10:01:AM
I have the original in hardback----along with others which I'd bought, so a full set ,with one unopened/unread.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 10:49:AM
Wow Lookout you are such a good keeper of books I just give mine away but must admit certain books I will always keep Wuthering Heights is one of them :)) whenever I feel I want to be taken back to Yorkshire I read it :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 06, 2020, 10:51:AM




In the same format ?

The reissue is a paperback. If you look at this Amazon link you will see a preview of the new cover.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Rainbows-End-Inside-Murders/dp/1529309166/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LF1BP8Y5Z81M&keywords=in+search+of+the+rainbow%27s+end&qid=1578306310&sprefix=in+search+of+the+r%2Caps%2C388&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Rainbows-End-Inside-Murders/dp/1529309166/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LF1BP8Y5Z81M&keywords=in+search+of+the+rainbow%27s+end&qid=1578306310&sprefix=in+search+of+the+r%2Caps%2C388&sr=8-1)

The book is mentioned in a Mail on Sunday article published yesterday:

"So it is perhaps a surprise that Colin agreed to act as consultant on White House Farm, an ITV drama starring Cressida Bonas, Prince Harry’s ex-girlfriend, as Sheila and Freddie Fox as Jeremy Bamber, as well as deciding to update and reissue the book he wrote about his experiences, called In Search Of The Rainbow’s End."

Below is the link to the full article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7852251/Pain-murdered-twins-father-milk-teeth-collected-DNA-evidence.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7852251/Pain-murdered-twins-father-milk-teeth-collected-DNA-evidence.html)

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 11:00:AM
Thanks for that Janet.I'll probably buy the paperback as I have the original hardback. I see CAL's front cover is different to the one I have.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 06, 2020, 11:04:AM
Thanks for that Janet.I'll probably buy the paperback as I have the original hardback. I see CAL's front cover is different to the one I have.

You're welcome lookout. I have preordered the paperback. I would be interested to know if there are any differences between the reissue and the original.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 11:21:AM
You're welcome lookout. I have preordered the paperback. I would be interested to know if there are any differences between the reissue and the original.





Yes, this is what I'll be looking for. The memory changes over the years !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 11:40:AM




In the same format ?

Yes, but it has extra chapters I believe?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 11:42:AM




Yes, this is what I'll be looking for. The memory changes over the years !

He hasn't rewritten it, just extra chapters.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 11:48:AM
Yes, but it has extra chapters I believe?






I bet it does  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 11:49:AM
He hasn't rewritten it, just extra chapters.


 


So, rewritten then, edited. Embellished.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 11:56:AM

 


So, rewritten then, edited. Embellished.

No - how many years have passed Lookout? It will be just an update on his life.   ::) Why anyone would be interested in trying to trip Colin up, is beyond me. I am uncomfortable with the way the conversation (cos it's not a debate) in respect to Colin has been handled. The man lost his two children aged six years - he deserves more respect than this!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 11:58:AM
No - how many years have passed Lookout? It will be just an update on his life.   ::) Why anyone would be interested in trying to trip Colin up, is beyond me. I am uncomfortable with the way the conversation (cos it's not a debate) in respect to Colin has been handled. The man lost his two children aged six years - he deserves more respect than this!





Jeremy lost his whole family !! As well as his freedom for something he did not do.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 12:01:PM




Jeremy lost his whole family !! As well as his freedom for something he did not do.

That's down to what you believe - I believe he was responsible for killing them himself - either way, Colin deserves more respect than he's getting here. While you're comparing everything Colin said, try doing the same with Jeremy!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 12:20:PM
Jeremy has been battling for years, since he was jailed in fact and has never once let up about his injustice. Once there's even a hint that things might be moving forward for him you get all this------a bloomin' drama then Colin showing up after 34 years purposely done to mar any hope of giving Jeremy a chance to at least show himself as the person he is and not the monster he's been painted.

The more Colin puts himself in the spotlight the less respect I'll have for the man. His last words were that " he'd moved on " and that was years ago so what's all this about if it isn't to help film-makers and producers make even bigger bucks for putting on something that a few of us will know will be questionable in its storyline ? It's all done to keep Jeremy where he is for the sake of all those who got it wrong in the first place.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 06, 2020, 12:25:PM
Jeremy has been battling for years, since he was jailed in fact and has never once let up about his injustice. Once there's even a hint that things might be moving forward for him you get all this------a bloomin' drama then Colin showing up after 34 years purposely done to mar any hope of giving Jeremy a chance to at least show himself as the person he is and not the monster he's been painted.

The more Colin puts himself in the spotlight the less respect I'll have for the man. His last words were that " he'd moved on " and that was years ago so what's all this about if it isn't to help film-makers and producers make even bigger bucks for putting on something that a few of us will know will be questionable in its storyline ? It's all done to keep Jeremy where he is for the sake of all those who got it wrong in the first place.

Maybe evidence of Nevill's call to Chelmsford police will see him released this year.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 12:30:PM
I suppose I could look at Colin's involvement with the drama another way and that's payback for an amount that he didn't receive like the others did by way of a financial " lift " after the deaths. Not a penny was he offered out of the fortune which had been gained so I suppose it's small consolation toward the fact that he too lost something from his life which it too has to be recognised.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 12:39:PM
I suppose I could look at Colin's involvement with the drama another way and that's payback for an amount that he didn't receive like the others did by way of a financial " lift " after the deaths. Not a penny was he offered out of the fortune which had been gained so I suppose it's small consolation toward the fact that he too lost something from his life which it too has to be recognised.

His involvement has nothing to do with money. He is successful in his own right - in spite of what happened, not because of.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 06, 2020, 01:18:PM




Jeremy lost his whole family !! As well as his freedom for something he did not do.

to be fair that was not Colins fault - he did not put him there . In fact he did not think he had done it at all in the beginning .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 01:29:PM
to be fair that was not Colins fault - he did not put him there . In fact he did not think he had done it at all in the beginning .





And this is what annoys me Jan, he soon turned tail when others started, yet Colin must have had his doubts deep down but chose to go along with what others had said.
It's hard enough as it is to prove you're innocent when the world and its wife is against you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 01:38:PM
Hi lookout I have just pre ordered Colin's book I like a paperback anyway hard back are too heavy to hold :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 01:41:PM
Are they all paperback's Susan ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 01:51:PM




And this is what annoys me Jan, he soon turned tail when others started, yet Colin must have had his doubts deep down but chose to go along with what others had said.
It's hard enough as it is to prove you're innocent when the world and its wife is against you.

Annoyed at a man who's children were murdered in their sleep? Seriously? Jan is right, Colin didn't put him in prison and whatever side you're on, if you can't see that Colin is a victim, then you seriouslt need to have a word with yourself!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 01:52:PM
Hi lookout not sure will look I see the old hardback like the one I gave away :)) is selling on Amazon for just over £194 your collection will be worth a few bob.  Will look at the new version  :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 02:01:PM
Lookout just the old hardback at £194 and you have that one
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 02:05:PM
Maybe evidence of Nevill's call to Chelmsford police will see him released this year.
yes good point adam,they will have to produce it first though
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 02:06:PM
Maybe evidence of Nevill's call to Chelmsford police will see him released this year.

Lets hope no one is holding their breath.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 02:35:PM
Lets hope no one is holding their breath.
yes that would become rather awkward
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 02:38:PM
Jeremy has been battling for years, since he was jailed in fact and has never once let up about his injustice. Once there's even a hint that things might be moving forward for him you get all this------a bloomin' drama then Colin showing up after 34 years purposely done to mar any hope of giving Jeremy a chance to at least show himself as the person he is and not the monster he's been painted.

The more Colin puts himself in the spotlight the less respect I'll have for the man. His last words were that " he'd moved on " and that was years ago so what's all this about if it isn't to help film-makers and producers make even bigger bucks for putting on something that a few of us will know will be questionable in its storyline ? It's all done to keep Jeremy where he is for the sake of all those who got it wrong in the first place.


I'd ask you to try -a HUGE ask, I know- to imagine how you might feel, if your children, precious more than toddlers, had been murdered by someone in the family who's pulled the wool over your eyes with lies in attempt to put the blame elsewhere? Would you really want that person released, despite their attempts to gain their freedom?

You appear utterly determined that you "know this production will be questionable". You appear to be denying and denigrating Colin's right to a voice, EVEN suggesting that he's doing it as a means of obtaining compensation!!! And if that wasn't bad enough you claim it's only being done to keep Jeremy in prison.

Colin's voice, more than ANYONE's, has a perfect right, after all these years of dignified silence, to be heard. If he's prepared to put his weight and support behind this production, I don't believe it will fly into realms of fantasy.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 02:48:PM
thats lookout for you jane,theres no way shes accepting jb is guilty come hell or high water
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 03:01:PM

I'd ask you to try -a HUGE ask, I know- to imagine how you might feel, if your children, precious more than toddlers, had been murdered by someone in the family who's pulled the wool over your eyes with lies in attempt to put the blame elsewhere? Would you really want that person released, despite their attempts to gain their freedom?

You appear utterly determined that you "know this production will be questionable". You appear to be denying and denigrating Colin's right to a voice, EVEN suggesting that he's doing it as a means of obtaining compensation!!! And if that wasn't bad enough you claim it's only being done to keep Jeremy in prison.

Colin's voice, more than ANYONE's, has a perfect right, after all these years of dignified silence, to be heard. If he's prepared to put his weight and support behind this production, I don't believe it will fly into realms of fantasy.

It's already had glowing references and doesn't need the approval from what amounts to a handful of supporters in the grand scheme.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 03:08:PM
thats lookout for you jane,theres no way shes accepting jb is guilty come hell or high water


And, either by accident or design, vilifies the most innocent and least deserving of it. That person having suffered the cruelest loss possible.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 03:09:PM
It's already had glowing references and doesn't need the approval from what amounts to a handful of supporters in the grand scheme.

I agree. I've read nothing but positive reviews.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 03:15:PM

And, either by accident or design, vilifies the most innocent and least deserving of it. That person having suffered the cruelest loss possible.
totally agree,the poor man played NO part in this saga.yet still gets nasty things said about him
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 06, 2020, 03:20:PM
Lets hope no one is holding their breath.

Either that or David's 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough'.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 03:21:PM
Either that or David's 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough'.
ah yes adam that could be very interesting
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 04:46:PM
No, I won't be brow-beaten into accepting something which to my mind is something which borders on emotional blackmail.
I've gone through the case, studied it and put myself in Jeremy's position of the accused and it's not a nice place to be in when your every word is doubted. Then the very organisation which you put your trust in, the justice system and all that it entails lets you down by not forwarding vital information which could very well be in your interest in tying up the loose ends of the case. It's like doing a jigsaw with pieces missing.

Many would say that the trial was unfair given that so much information had been omitted and because I'm the person that I am, and if this horrendous incident had happened to me everyone in the family would be on trial until I was satisfied that I had the right answer. It's too easy to point a finger as 9 times out of 10 it's usually the one that you'd least expect it to be. !!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 04:57:PM
No, I won't be brow-beaten into accepting something which to my mind is something which borders on emotional blackmail.
I've gone through the case, studied it and put myself in Jeremy's position of the accused and it's not a nice place to be in when your every word is doubted. Then the very organisation which you put your trust in, the justice system and all that it entails lets you down by not forwarding vital information which could very well be in your interest in tying up the loose ends of the case. It's like doing a jigsaw with pieces missing.

Many would say that the trial was unfair given that so much information had been omitted and because I'm the person that I am, and if this horrendous incident had happened to me everyone in the family would be on trial until I was satisfied that I had the right answer. It's too easy to point a finger as 9 times out of 10 it's usually the one that you'd least expect it to be. !!
we respect your opinions lookout,iam just the same only on the other side of the fence :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 06, 2020, 05:06:PM
It's already had glowing references and doesn't need the approval from what amounts to a handful of supporters in the grand scheme.


of course it can have glowing reviews for the acting ,the  cinematography the representation of what the people involved actually felt because its easy to forget that.

But if it misses out vital facts then i think we should all be entitled to critisise .


Lets wait and see .


Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 05:15:PM

of course it can have glowing reviews for the acting ,the  cinematography the representation of what the people involved actually felt because its easy to forget that.

But if it misses out vital facts then i think we should all be entitled to critisise .


Lets wait and see .


What we may see as being "vital facts" all these years on, is something other than representing only what happened in a short window of time in 1985, ie,  they're unlikely to show anything prior to Jeremy's phone call to the police or the alleged conversation round the supper table.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 06, 2020, 05:26:PM

What we may see as being "vital facts" all these years on, is something other than representing only what happened in a short window of time in 1985, ie,  they're unlikely to show anything prior to Jeremy's phone call to the police or the alleged conversation round the supper table.


Well it is over 6 episodes so I would expect it to be quite comprehensive . And there were allegedly lots of statements studied so I would hope they would want to represent some family background . If its relevant of course.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 05:30:PM

Well it is over 6 episodes so I would expect it to be quite comprehensive . And there were allegedly lots of statements studied so I would hope they would want to represent some family background . If its relevant of course.
family background should start with the wonderful gesture of neville and june adopting jb and sc
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 05:35:PM

Well it is over 6 episodes so I would expect it to be quite comprehensive . And there were allegedly lots of statements studied so I would hope they would want to represent some family background . If its relevant of course.


If they use only what was said by, or what was known of, the family at the time, combined with what is felt to be relevant, I can't see what there would be to criticize.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 05:48:PM

of course it can have glowing reviews for the acting ,the  cinematography the representation of what the people involved actually felt because its easy to forget that.

But if it misses out vital facts then i think we should all be entitled to critisise .


Lets wait and see .

It's not for the acting, its for the sensitivity and handling of the issue and also for it's factual content. I have no doubt that there will be lots of criticism ............ here - but that won't be just because they get any facts wrong. They could be 100% correct and it wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 05:50:PM
It'll be a " whodunnit ".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 05:50:PM
It'll be a " whodunnit ".

It's not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 05:50:PM
Can't be anything else really, can it ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 06:02:PM
Can't be anything else really, can it ?


How can it be a "whodunit" when the "who", for what they "dun", is serving a life sentence?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 06:36:PM

How can it be a "whodunit" when the "who", for what they "dun", is serving a life sentence?





Because it's looking very much like a MOJ according to many and I'm sure nobody will commit themselves by saying " they saw him do it ".
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 06:53:PM




Because it's looking very much like a MOJ according to many and I'm sure nobody will commit themselves by saying " they saw him do it ".


Sadly, many of the "many" may have been guided by the CT and their erroneous claims, and a woman called Trudi who appeared to be the organizer of various embarrassingly dreadful public stunts. If guilty verdicts require the culprit to have been seen, there'd be very few convictions.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 06:54:PM




Because it's looking very much like a MOJ according to many and I'm sure nobody will commit themselves by saying " they saw him do it ".

There is be nothing in the drama that suggests a MOJ. You won't see Bamber commit the murders but you won't hear anything about withheld docs or calls from Nevill.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 07:00:PM

Sadly, many of the "many" may have been guided by the CT and their erroneous claims, and a woman called Trudi who appeared to be the organizer of various embarrassingly dreadful public stunts. If guilty verdicts require the culprit to have been seen, there'd be very few convictions.





Trudi appears to be a very nice inoffensive person and I'd much prefer to put my trust in her because she's open and honest, than I'd put in anyone who supports JB's guilt, who are spiteful at every opportunity if you are an innocent supporter.
Why should it make any difference to you people anyway ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 06, 2020, 07:03:PM
There's a saying "fire is a good servant but a bad master" and it's the same with the mass media. Fine when you want to put your point of view, but not so nice when you have to deal with the backlash. I don't wish to criticize Colin for helping with the drama (you know what it's like: pretty young woman telephones or knocks on the door-empathy-we're going to make the drama anyway etc) but I do wonder if he realizes what forces he has unleashed. I can't see it solving things one way or another anyway, as this thread has proved hitherto.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 07:04:PM




Trudi appears to be a very nice inoffensive person and I'd much prefer to put my trust in her because she's open and honest, than I'd put in anyone who supports JB's guilt, who are spiteful at every opportunity if you are an innocent supporter.
Why should it make any difference to you people anyway ?

Basically, you would support anyone that supports him - I already knew that Lookout. I don't believe someone is a good person because they believe Bamber is guilty nor vice versa - I speak as I find but I would also have to have some interaction with that person before making such a sweeping statement. Trudi is probably a very nice person but I have no real idea - I don't know her.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 07:06:PM




Trudi appears to be a very nice inoffensive person and I'd much prefer to put my trust in her because she's open and honest, than I'd put in anyone who supports JB's guilt, who are spiteful at every opportunity if you are an innocent supporter.
Why should it make any difference to you people anyway ?


But you're unforgivably spiteful towards poor Colin. I suppose that doesn't count? And if you didn't have a hand in it, you certainly applauded the idea of Julie's marriage being in trouble because her husband had allegedly learned the truth about her past. I'd call that being spiteful. I can't think of another word for it. Unless it's vengeful.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 06, 2020, 07:10:PM




Trudi appears to be a very nice inoffensive person and I'd much prefer to put my trust in her because she's open and honest, than I'd put in anyone who supports JB's guilt, who are spiteful at every opportunity if you are an innocent supporter.
Why should it make any difference to you people anyway ?
I don’t call that good taste, reading bloody poems at the graves Lookout, she should show some respect, she knew the backlash, it was for publicity stupid women her, quite shocking.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 07:10:PM
Basically, you would support anyone that supports him - I already knew that Lookout. I don't believe someone is a good person because they believe Bamber is guilty nor vice versa - I speak as I find but I would also have to have some interaction with that person before making such a sweeping statement. Trudi is probably a very nice person but I have no real idea - I don't know her.





I've watched her video's, she's made herself known-----hasn't hidden behind a screen blasting off  and isn't frightened to speak her views and above all has the courage of her convictions. On the face of it Trudi is a decent person and a truthful one at that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 07:12:PM




I've watched her video's, she's made herself known-----hasn't hidden behind a screen blasting off  and isn't frightened to speak her views and above all has the courage of her convictions. On the face of it Trudi is a decent person and a truthful one at that.

Well, other than making a name for herself, as an exercise it won't do her any harm to have it on her cv.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 07:13:PM
I couldn't imagine anyone from the guilty side putting themselves forward, though I do imagine what their attitude would be like-----full of attitude !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 07:26:PM
I couldn't imagine anyone from the guilty side putting themselves forward, though I do imagine what their attitude would be like-----full of attitude !


I'm not sure what cause you're suggesting we might put ourselves forward for.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 07:29:PM




I've watched her video's, she's made herself known-----hasn't hidden behind a screen blasting off  and isn't frightened to speak her views and above all has the courage of her convictions. On the face of it Trudi is a decent person and a truthful one at that.

So when Colin or CAL come forward to reiterate their beliefs, the likes of Trudi and her pals in the CT have a right to criticise them - insinuating info was received from internet gossip? Absolute rubbish! The whole criticism of both Colin and CAL because of this drama is just sour grapes and childish BS! I don't know how they dare criticise anyone with their fairy story website, biased video's and complete JOKE of a Twitter page! Laughable.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 07:30:PM
I couldn't imagine anyone from the guilty side putting themselves forward, though I do imagine what their attitude would be like-----full of attitude !

What should we put ourselves forward for Lookout?  But while we're on, what have you put yourself forward for?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 06, 2020, 07:31:PM
I couldn't imagine anyone from the guilty side putting themselves forward, though I do imagine what their attitude would be like-----full of attitude !
I think the bake off and the grave visit didn’t do her any favours though Lookout? 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 06, 2020, 07:32:PM
I couldn't imagine anyone from the guilty side putting themselves forward, though I do imagine what their attitude would be like-----full of attitude !

And the last person to do that was exposed as a fraud.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 07:33:PM
I think the bake off and the grave visit didn’t do her any favours though Lookout?

Talk about BAD TASTE and lack of EMPATHY!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 06, 2020, 07:39:PM




I've watched her video's, she's made herself known-----hasn't hidden behind a screen blasting off  and isn't frightened to speak her views and above all has the courage of her convictions. On the face of it Trudi is a decent person and a truthful one at that.
She doesn't offer much of her own opinion though, does she? Is she posing the difficult questions to him?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 07:40:PM
I think the bake off and the grave visit didn’t do her any favours though Lookout?






The bake-off was a bit naff I agree but the graveside was no bad thing as it reminded people that nobody had ever tended it which I thought quite sad as it's not a million miles from those who benefited is it ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 07:43:PM





The bake-off was a bit naff I agree but the graveside was no bad thing as it reminded people that nobody had ever tended it which I thought quite sad as it's not a million miles from those who benefited is it ?

Who said it hadn't been tended? The CT?  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 07:46:PM
Who said it hadn't been tended? The CT?  ::)






They didn't need to have said anything as the first pic showed it as abandoned and forgotten.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 07:49:PM





They didn't need to have said anything as the first pic showed it as abandoned and forgotten.


Or did they pick any untended grave? C'mon. It was a publicity stunt.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 08:03:PM
Here

I suppose I could look at Colin's involvement with the drama another way and that's payback for an amount that he didn't receive like the others did by way of a financial " lift " after the deaths. Not a penny was he offered out of the fortune which had been gained so I suppose it's small consolation toward the fact that he too lost something from his life which it too has to be recognised.

And here
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10094.msg467059.html#msg467059

The post after my reply to Steve.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 08:14:PM
The unkempt grave? More BS! How is the grave unkempt?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 06, 2020, 08:15:PM
family background should start with the wonderful gesture of neville and june adopting jb and sc
Adoption should never be a ‘wonderful gesture’!  Do you also think the children should have been ‘grateful’ ?  Adoption should be about unconditional love and respect for the child the parents have committed to.  This is why these days there are so many checks on prospective adopters, it’s should never be about the parents but all about the security and care of the child.  Unfortunately don’t think June and Nevill quite got that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 08:24:PM

Or did they pick any untended grave? C'mon. It was a publicity stunt.





How can you say that about someone's grave ? Empathy ? Where is it ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 08:24:PM
Adoption should never be a ‘wonderful gesture’!  Do you also think the children should have been ‘grateful’ ?  Adoption should be about unconditional love and respect for the child the parents have committed to.  This is why these days there are so many checks on prospective adopters, it’s should never be about the parents but all about the security and care of the child.  Unfortunately don’t think June and Nevill quite got that.
is it not a wonderful gesture, by adopting them they saved them from going in and out of homes and different foster parents,ive been there when 14 yrs old for a short spell so i know what its like,some had been in different homes most of their short lives others had been given to foster parents who grave them back after several years.NO way what so ever can june and neville be seen in a bad light because of jb,s actions no one forced him to kill the family it was his choice
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 08:25:PM
Well that old wreath looks as though it's spent a few Christmas's there before it was replaced.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 08:28:PM
Adoption should never be a ‘wonderful gesture’!  Do you also think the children should have been ‘grateful’ ?  Adoption should be about unconditional love and respect for the child the parents have committed to.  This is why these days there are so many checks on prospective adopters, it’s should never be about the parents but all about the security and care of the child.  Unfortunately don’t think June and Nevill quite got that.


As I've said, previously, I believe June and Nevill, not unlike some other adoptive parents had certain expectations of their children which they were expected to fulfill -just as they'd have expected of their biological children to whom it may have come more easily. Because the adopted children may have have different views -needs- the rural, farming life not being innate in them, they'd have been criticized. As the saying goes, if you continually criticize your children, they won't stop loving you. They will stop loving themselves.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 08:33:PM




How can you say that about someone's grave ? Empathy ? Where is it ?


Get real, Lookout. Trudi had never met the Bambers. She could have picked ANY untended grave for this publicity stunt. There may have been some excuse had it been a private gesture but it wasn't. THAT'S not empathy.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 08:36:PM

As I've said, previously, I believe June and Nevill, not unlike some other adoptive parents had certain expectations of their children which they were expected to fulfill -just as they'd have expected of their biological children to whom it may have come more easily. Because the adopted children may have have different views -needs- the rural, farming life not being innate in them, they'd have been criticized. As the saying goes, if you continually criticize your children, they won't stop loving you. They will stop loving themselves.
i agree jane good post,i was beaten mercilessly as a child and them dumped in a care home for a year by my dad,but whatever ive done in life thats been bad i did it through my own free will,and have never used my violent childhood as an excuse for my bad behaviour
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 08:49:PM

Get real, Lookout. Trudi had never met the Bambers. She could have picked ANY untended grave for this publicity stunt. There may have been some excuse had it been a private gesture but it wasn't. THAT'S not empathy.





But she didn't pick any untended grave did she ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 08:53:PM
Well that old wreath looks as though it's spent a few Christmas's there before it was replaced.

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 08:54:PM
i agree jane good post,i was beaten mercilessly as a child and them dumped in a care home for a year by my dad,but whatever ive done in life thats been bad i did it through my own free will,and have never used my violent childhood as an excuse for my bad behaviour


It was brave of you to take ownership of it, Sami. Sadly, sometimes the abuse doesn't leave marks which show and it takes some abused children a very long time before they take on board that they weren't responsible for the abuse. They never saw it as such. They saw it as punishment for getting it wrong. The affect of constant criticism.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 08:56:PM




But she didn't pick any untended grave did she ?



How do you know that? Were you with her? The Bambers aren't the only one's buried in that church yard.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:00:PM




But she didn't pick any untended grave did she ?

The gave isn't untended at all.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 09:01:PM
Well that old wreath looks as though it's spent a few Christmas's there before it was replaced.


It most certainly doesn't. The colours are far too fresh.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:01:PM


How do you know that? Were you with her? The Bambers aren't the only one's buried in that church yard.





Perhaps the clue was the name on the stone ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:04:PM
The grave isn't unkempt - the accusation is bullsh*t.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 06, 2020, 09:05:PM




Perhaps the clue was the name on the stone ?


If she's picked a random one which was overgrown, the name wouldn't have been visible.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:17:PM

If she's picked a random one which was overgrown, the name wouldn't have been visible.





Have you got proof she did that ? And don't ask me if I had proof that she didn't, as you usually would  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:22:PM




Have you got proof she did that ? And don't ask me if I had proof that she didn't, as you usually would  ::)

It doesn't matter given that the Bambers isn't overgrown or unkempt.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 06, 2020, 09:25:PM
i agree jane good post,i was beaten mercilessly as a child and them dumped in a care home for a yeardad,but whatever ive done in life thats been bad i did it through my own free will,and have never used my violent childhood as an excuse for my bad behaviour
I’m sorry Sami, no child deserves to be treated the way you were. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:25:PM
It doesn't matter given that the Bambers isn't overgrown or unkempt.






Not now it isn't.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:27:PM





Not now it isn't.

It wasn't then either or is Trudi claiming she took her secateurs with her?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:29:PM
i agree jane good post,i was beaten mercilessly as a child and them dumped in a care home for a year by my dad,but whatever ive done in life thats been bad i did it through my own free will,and have never used my violent childhood as an excuse for my bad behaviour

Sorry to hear that Sami - Not a good start for you but you seem like a really nice guy and I hope the bad stuff has passed X
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 09:35:PM
I’m sorry Sami, no child deserves to be treated the way you were.
thank you maggie,but i was you could say one of the lucky ones as only spent a year in care home there were 2 brothers there 7 and 13 they both had a chance to be fostered but to different house holds they refused so were sent to the care home,mum had died dad was a drinker.i felt real affection for the 7yr old as he looked up to me like his own brother,and me being 14 felt some sort of magic in my heart by his gestures it cant be explained by words.hope they found happiness in life :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:36:PM
It wasn't then either or is Trudi claiming she took her secateurs with her?  ;D ;D ;D






No, she got down on all fours and used her saw-edged teeth.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:37:PM





No, she got down on all fours and used her saw-edged teeth.

You said it  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 06, 2020, 09:38:PM
Sami such a beautiful post from you.  I am sure they will have found happiness and you will have brought some happiness to their life xx
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 06, 2020, 09:39:PM
You said it  ;D ;D ;D





I can see the funny side in most things.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 09:42:PM
Sorry to hear that Sami - Not a good start for you but you seem like a really nice guy and I hope the bad stuff has passed X
thank you caroline ,i had a good wife,so can salute all women out there,except the ones whoes husbands say,(women ahhh cant live with em cant live without em :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:44:PM
thank you caroline ,i had a good wife,so can salute all women out there,except the ones whoes husbands say,(women ahhh cant live with em cant live without em :)) :))

You know what they say Sami - Behind every great man is a great woman ....... rolling her eyes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 09:49:PM
You know what they say Sami - Behind every great man is a great woman ....... rolling her eyes  ;D ;D ;D ;D
yes also the other way round caroline,i can still remember dennis thatcher standing there behind margret wearing his little white apron looking sheepish :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 09:52:PM
yes also the other way round caroline,i can still remember dennis thatcher standing there behind margret wearing his little white apron looking sheepish :)) :))

Not sure it can be argued that Thatcher was a actually a woman though Sami  ;D ;D - Poor ole Dennis!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 09:54:PM
Not sure it can be argued that Thatcher was a actually a woman though Sami  ;D ;D - Poor ole Dennis!
:)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: maggie on January 06, 2020, 10:27:PM
thank you maggie,but i was you could say one of the lucky ones as only spent a year in care home there were 2 brothers there 7 and 13 they both had a chance to be fostered but to different house holds they refused so were sent to the care home,mum had died dad was a drinker.i felt real affection for the 7yr old as he looked up to me like his own brother,and me being 14 felt some sort of magic in my heart by his gestures it cant be explained by words.hope they found happiness in life :)
It was certainly tough to be in a Children’s Home, I worked for Children's Department years ago, also have a close friend who was fostered and also in a Children’s Home it was very tough and leaves scars.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 10:33:PM
It was certainly tough to be in a Children’s Home, I worked for Children's Department years ago, also have a close friend who was fostered and also in a Children’s Home it was very tough and leaves scars.
your absolutely right  maggie,back then there was also a shortage of foster parents,but i can honestly say there was no child abuse in the home i was in ,not like the horror stories you know happened with jimmy saville and others pedofiles
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 11:12:PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 11:19:PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/
nice story caroline will have some readers hissing steam from their ears.poor leo. trudi might scratch his eyes out when she reads it
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 06, 2020, 11:25:PM
jb is on his way to setting a record,longest serving prisoner in uk penal history.i will certainly be celebrating if iam still around and not pushing up daisies
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2020, 12:50:AM
nice story caroline will have some readers hissing steam from their ears.poor leo. trudi might scratch his eyes out when she reads it

Leo isn't keen is he?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2020, 12:50:AM
jb is on his way to setting a record,longest serving prisoner in uk penal history.i will certainly be celebrating if iam still around and not pushing up daisies

I'm sure you'll still be here!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 07, 2020, 08:29:AM
thank you caroline ,i had a good wife,so can salute all women out there,except the ones whoes husbands say,(women ahhh cant live with em cant live without em :)) :))
Thanks for sharing your experience with us Sami, your a credit to the forum mate, your knowledge inside and outside is of immense value mate.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 07, 2020, 08:56:AM
Thanks for sharing your experience with us Sami, your a credit to the forum mate, your knowledge inside and outside is of immense value mate.
thats kind of you  rj.thanks mate
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 07, 2020, 11:24:AM
We all have our cross to bear one way or the other.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 07, 2020, 11:42:AM
We all have our cross to bear one way or the other.
that is so true lookout
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 07, 2020, 12:28:PM
that is so true lookout
I agree Sami, it’s a forum to voice opinions, it was set up for posters who think Bamber guilty and posters who think he’s innocent, it’s not like the CT site where no one can express their views and challenge the mistruths and propaganda paraded by them. Neil and Mike have always encouraged views from both sides Sami.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 07, 2020, 12:32:PM
I agree Sami, it’s a forum to voice opinions, it was set up for posters who think Bamber guilty and posters who think he’s innocent, it’s not like the CT site where no one can express their views and challenge the mistruths and propaganda paraded by them. Neil and Mike have always encouraged views from both sides Sami.
they have done an excellent job rj
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 07, 2020, 04:54:PM
nice story caroline will have some readers hissing steam from their ears.poor leo. trudi might scratch his eyes out when she reads it

True detective magazine Feb have the opposite view.

Just goes to show.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 07, 2020, 05:20:PM
Jan I think this is the norm with a murder case that is dramatised some will think one way and others the opposite. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 07, 2020, 05:22:PM
If this drama does nothing else at least it'll highlight the case and keep it in the public arena for a while.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 07, 2020, 05:27:PM
Lookout that is a good point posters from way back may come onto the forum again to debate some brilliant posters from both sides have gone missing.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 07, 2020, 05:30:PM
lookout can you remember Tyler she was brilliant fabulous lady.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 07, 2020, 06:05:PM
Yes Susan, Tyler was great as was Keira and a few others.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 07, 2020, 08:33:PM
Do you recall any of the conversations you had with Jeremy?
I had many conversations with him. I did ask him if he was guilty. And he looked me a straight back in the eye and replied " no I did not kill my family" not that it amounts to anything either way. We had lots of conversations.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 07, 2020, 09:39:PM
True detective magazine Feb have the opposite view.

Just goes to show.
your right jan just seen the front cover with jb on it,have you had a read of it
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 07, 2020, 11:24:PM
your right jan just seen the front cover with jb on it,have you had a read of it

Not yet . But I will .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 08:33:AM
An interesting item on the news this morning. An Asian mother and her two babies were in water. A group of 14 year old boys went to their assistance. The first thing they did, before making a chain to get them out, and do cpr on one of the children -they said "it was automatic. We didn't think about it"- was call 999.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 09:26:AM
We have done this the death Jane
Because Jeremy did not ring 999 does not make him a murderer
Unless you have been living under a rock they were a very private family
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 10:13:AM
An interesting item on the news this morning. An Asian mother and her two babies were in water. A group of 14 year old boys went to their assistance. The first thing they did, before making a chain to get them out, and do cpr on one of the children -they said "it was automatic. We didn't think about it"- was call 999.
Its a natural instinct Jane, something you’ve been taught as a kid. To suggest they were a private family and wouldn’t involve police, yet proclaim Neville rang the police after all?  😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 10:23:AM
We have done this the death Jane
Because Jeremy did not ring 999 does not make him a murderer
Unless you have been living under a rock they were a very private family


As it's alleged that Nevill phoned the police, it seems privacy took second place to safety.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 12:43:PM
Its a natural instinct Jane, something you’ve been taught as a kid. To suggest they were a private family and wouldn’t involve police, yet proclaim Neville rang the police after all?  😂😂😂😂

if  Jeremy was planning this call as his alibi and trying to set up a siege situation this call was part of his very intricate master plan that had allegedly been going on for 12 months - so why as a guilty person would he NOT call 999 .

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 12:55:PM
if  Jeremy was planning this call as his alibi and trying to set up a siege situation this call was part of his very intricate master plan that had allegedly been going on for 12 months - so why as a guilty person would he NOT call 999 .
My point being, it’s a natural reaction to phone 999 in an emergency, Bamber chose not to for reasons only he truthfully knows, my other point being, supporters use the fact that  they liked  to keep things private and not involve authorities yet on the other hand proclaim Neville rang the police?  They like to lay the bread crumbs in both directions.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 12:59:PM
if  Jeremy was planning this call as his alibi and trying to set up a siege situation this call was part of his very intricate master plan that had allegedly been going on for 12 months - so why as a guilty person would he NOT call 999 .





Yes----a 999 call would have got him off the hook, wouldn't it ?  ::)-sorry !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 01:19:PM




Yes----a 999 call would have got him off the hook, wouldn't it ?  ::)-sorry !


Lookout, even if the alleged call had been about people trying to break into the house, a 999 call would have been the appropriate course of action.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 01:22:PM




Yes----a 999 call would have got him off the hook, wouldn't it ?  ::)-sorry !
He wasn’t convicted because of the 999 call, not calling 999 would cause a discussion and questions like it would for anyone.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 01:26:PM
My point being, it’s a natural reaction to phone 999 in an emergency, Bamber chose not to for reasons only he truthfully knows, my other point being, supporters use the fact that  they liked  to keep things private and not involve authorities yet on the other hand proclaim Neville rang the police?  They like to lay the bread crumbs in both directions.

If he is innocent we only have his statement about why he did not call 999 - and perhaps now IF he is innocent he may regret that . But he did not know any shots had been fired at all or anyone had been injured and he was half asleep .

However as I said as part of an evil master plan we can just as easily argue there would be no reason not to call 999.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 01:27:PM
We have done this the death Jane
Because Jeremy did not ring 999 does not make him a murderer
Unless you have been living under a rock they were a very private family

How does calling 999 stop them from being a private family (stupid excuse).
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 01:28:PM
He wasn’t convicted because of the 999 call, not calling 999 would cause a discussion and questions like it would for anyone.





Scraping the barrel is never good when it comes to investigating a mass murder. It rather smacks of desperation in securing a conviction.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 01:28:PM
My point being, it’s a natural reaction to phone 999 in an emergency, Bamber chose not to for reasons only he truthfully knows, my other point being, supporters use the fact that  they liked  to keep things private and not involve authorities yet on the other hand proclaim Neville rang the police?  They like to lay the bread crumbs in both directions.

For one, he knew it wasn't an emergency.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 01:31:PM
If he is innocent we only have his statement about why he did not call 999 - and perhaps now IF he is innocent he may regret that . But he did not know any shots had been fired at all or anyone had been injured and he was half asleep .

However as I said as part of an evil master plan we can just as easily argue there would be no reason not to call 999.


But if we go with "an evil master plan" we can argue that not calling 999 was something he considered as being worth while. What "we" consider is only our opinion. It isn't part of it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 01:32:PM
If he is innocent we only have his statement about why he did not call 999 - and perhaps now IF he is innocent he may regret that . But he did not know any shots had been fired at all or anyone had been injured and he was half asleep .

However as I said as part of an evil master plan we can just as easily argue there would be no reason not to call 999.

Personally, I don't think he had a 'master plan' as you keep saying. I think he had an idea but no blue print.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 01:38:PM
For one, he knew it wasn't an emergency.


Exactly! He knew the words. The emotions behind them were absent.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 01:44:PM
He was probably sitting dithering about what his father would have done. Both siblings had never been taught to stand on their own two feet in any event and I find this quite sad. They still had their  "bottoms wiped " by mum and dad !!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 02:00:PM
He was probably sitting dithering about what his father would have done. Both siblings had never been taught to stand on their own two feet in any event and I find this quite sad. They still had their  "bottoms wiped " by mum and dad !!

 ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 02:29:PM
::)





Roll your eyes all you want but there are lots of young adults who rely on their parents to carry them along while the useless articles look for reassurance.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 02:32:PM




Roll your eyes all you want but there are lots of young adults who rely on their parents to carry them along while the useless articles look for reassurance.

It's not that Lookout, it's your constant referral to Jeremy as a mummy's boy. He wasn't.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 02:37:PM
It's not that Lookout, it's your constant referral to Jeremy as a mummy's boy. He wasn't.





Standing baking with his mum ? Other boys would be kicking a ball about.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 02:39:PM
Did he ever muck out on the farm ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 02:40:PM
Did he ever muck out on the farm ?
No he was out robbing and growing drugs.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 02:43:PM
No he was out robbing and growing drugs.





House to house like Sheila was ? It's all in CAL's book. Whether he snorted like Sheila did is debateable.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 03:36:PM




Standing baking with his mum ? Other boys would be kicking a ball about.

Of course he was Lookout  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 03:44:PM
He was probably sitting dithering about what his father would have done. Both siblings had never been taught to stand on their own two feet in any event and I find this quite sad. They still had their  "bottoms wiped " by mum and dad !!


 You really do have a very blinkered view of what their lives were. He didn't do much dithering when it came to selling family possessions in order to fund parties and holidays. They'd have learned from boarding schools how to stand on their own two feet, AND wipe their bottoms. There'd have been no one to do either for them there.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 03:47:PM




Standing baking with his mum ? Other boys would be kicking a ball about.


Something else 'cooked up' by the CT. Besides, it's rugby and cricket that get played at independent schools.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 03:58:PM




Roll your eyes all you want but there are lots of young adults who rely on their parents to carry them along while the useless articles look for reassurance.


Absolutely
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:00:PM

 You really do have a very blinkered view of what their lives were. He didn't do much dithering when it came to selling family possessions in order to fund parties and holidays. They'd have learned from boarding schools how to stand on their own two feet, AND wipe their bottoms. There'd have been no one to do either for them there.






If anyone's blinkered, it's you ! You haven't got a clue about life.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 04:00:PM

Absolutely

Bamber relied on his parents for one thing - MONEY!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:03:PM

Absolutely


Oh! So if some parents do, it must mean the Bambers do, too. I've not met many 'boarders' who can't stand on their own two feet. In fact, I don't think I've met any. ONE of the reasons they're sent to boarding schools is to make them independent.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:04:PM

Oh! So if some parents do, it must mean the Bambers do, too. I've not met many 'boarders' who can't stand on their own two feet. In fact, I don't think I've met any. ONE of the reasons they're sent to boarding schools is to make them independent.




Many leave-----Sheila did.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:04:PM





If anyone's blinkered, it's you ! You haven't got a clue about life.


That's a particularly weak response, Lookout, but I realize it's the only one you've got.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:06:PM



Many leave-----Sheila did.



We ALL leave school, Lookout. I guess like most of us, she'd have been 16? having been there since she was 9 or 10.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:10:PM


We ALL leave school, Lookout. I guess like most of us, she'd have been 16? having been there since she was 9 or 10.





No, she joined an ordinary mainstream school to finish off her schooling.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:15:PM




No, she joined an ordinary mainstream school to finish off her schooling.


Really? Where was that? In any case, learning to stand on her own two feet would certainly have been completed in 6/7 years and she certainly used that knowledge to good advantage when she absconded to a pop concert and hitched a lift back.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:18:PM

Really? Where was that? In any case, learning to stand on her own two feet would certainly have been completed in 6/7 years and she certainly used that knowledge to good advantage when she absconded to a pop concert and hitched a lift back.





No again, it was Jeremy who bunked school to go and watch a pop concert. Jeez, your memory is naff.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:20:PM




No again, it was Jeremy who bunked school to go and watch a pop concert. Jeez, your memory is naff.


I think you'll find it was Sheila and she managed to talk her way out of what could have been a nasty situation. But you still haven't said which state school she attended.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:23:PM

I think you'll find it was Sheila and she managed to talk her way out of what could have been a nasty situation. But you still haven't said which state school she attended.





It was Jeremy. He went to see Suzi Quatro.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 04:35:PM




It was Jeremy. He went to see Suzi Quatro.


Maybe they both did it? Rather spoils the notion that neither was capable of standing on their own two feet..............or wiping their own nether regions :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 04:50:PM

Maybe they both did it? Rather spoils the notion that neither was capable of standing on their own two feet..............or wiping their own nether regions :)) :)) :))





No, you can't worm your way out of that one just because you won't admit your mistake.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 05:10:PM
if  Jeremy was planning this call as his alibi and trying to set up a siege situation this call was part of his very intricate master plan that had allegedly been going on for 12 months - so why as a guilty person would he NOT call 999 .
Because he needed time to clean up before the disclosure.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 05:11:PM
https://youtu.be/raJWfQQRwNs
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 05:12:PM
Because he needed time to clean up before the disclosure.

we have been through this .
just phone a bit later .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 05:17:PM




No, you can't worm your way out of that one just because you won't admit your mistake.


I'm still convinced that I read Sheila did it. If I didn't then I've made a mistake. However, it remains that Jeremy seemed to know how to stand on his own two feet.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 05:18:PM

I'm still convinced that I read Sheila did it. If I didn't then I've made a mistake. However, it remains that Jeremy seemed to know how to stand on his own two feet.





No--I beg to differ. It was Jeremy who escaped to watch Suzi Quatro in concert.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 05:28:PM




No--I beg to differ. It was Jeremy who escaped to watch Suzi Quatro in concert.
He did but Sheila also sneaked out of Old Hall School, Hethersett one evening. She became detached from a group of schoolfriends and hitchhiked a ride back, where she was lucky to escape the advances of the driver.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 05:32:PM
He did but Sheila also sneaked out of Old Hall School, Hethersett one evening. She became detached from a group of schoolfriends and hitchhiked a ride back, where she was lucky to escape the advances of the driver.



Aww! Thank-you SO much, Steve. The reasons for it make no difference. She was OUT. It furthers my belief that both were capable of standing on their own two feet. Illness eventually robbing Sheila of the capacity.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 05:42:PM


Aww! Thank-you SO much, Steve. The reasons for it make no difference. She was OUT. It furthers my belief that both were capable of standing on their own two feet. Illness eventually robbing Sheila of the capacity.





So running back home is the new way of standing on ones own feet ?? Get real !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 05:45:PM




So running back home is the new way of standing on ones own feet ?? Get real !


WHO was "running back home"? The lift took her back to school. Hethersett is about 90 miles from Essex.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 05:48:PM

WHO was "running back home"? The lift took her back to school. Hethersett is about 90 miles from Essex.





There was no lift, Sheila abandoned it..
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 05:54:PM




There was no lift, Sheila abandoned it..


Then how did the driver make advances if she didn't get in? And it could have been a very long walk back to school. An even longer one to WHF. Perhaps she hitched a lift!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 06:14:PM
we have been through this .
just phone a bit later .

How could he phone later? If they had gone straight in, it would have been obvious they had been dead quite some time. Jeremy wanted to be at the scene in order to intervene, that's why he started to get edgy when he was on hold with the West phone call. House full of guns and she knows how to use all of them - they are hardly going to rush in unarmed - but to control that, he needed to be there. If he's called 999, they's have gotten there before him and his role would have been much less influential.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 06:19:PM
How could he phone later? If they had gone straight in, it would have been obvious they had been dead quite some time. Jeremy wanted to be at the scene in order to intervene, that's why he started to get edgy when he was on hold with the West phone call. House full of guns and she knows how to use all of them - they are hardly going to rush in unarmed - but to control that, he needed to be there. If he's called 999, they's have gotten there before him and his role would have been much less influential.
Thats why he wanted to be picked up so he could influence events, when they wouldn’t he let them pass him and arrive just after.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 06:21:PM
Thats why he wanted to be picked up so he could influence events, when they wouldn’t he let them pass him and arrive just after.

Exactly!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 06:43:PM
How could he phone later? If they had gone straight in, it would have been obvious they had been dead quite some time. Jeremy wanted to be at the scene in order to intervene, that's why he started to get edgy when he was on hold with the West phone call. House full of guns and she knows how to use all of them - they are hardly going to rush in unarmed - but to control that, he needed to be there. If he's called 999, they's have gotten there before him and his role would have been much less influential.


So saying his sister had got hold of a gun was not a serious call then . Sorry i just do not get your logic . He had no way of knowing how they would react to those words - and now you are saying because he did not call 999 they took him less seriously and yet before he was trying to create a seige situation .

It soulds like you are attributing him with more brains than he actually has - or the police with less.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 06:48:PM

So saying his sister had got hold of a gun was not a serious call then . Sorry i just do not get your logic . He had no way of knowing how they would react to those words - and now you are saying because he did not call 999 they took him less seriously and yet before he was trying to create a seige situation .

It soulds like you are attributing him with more brains than he actually has - or the police with less.


Call 999, it's treated like an emergency. THAT'S why it's called "an emergency service" coz in an emergency one calls them immediately. Call any old police station, ie a NON emergency call, and, despite a gun being mentioned, it's unlikely to be treated as an emergency. Why would it be? EVERYONE knows that, in an emergency, the number of choice is 999.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 06:54:PM

So saying his sister had got hold of a gun was not a serious call then . Sorry i just do not get your logic . He had no way of knowing how they would react to those words - and now you are saying because he did not call 999 they took him less seriously and yet before he was trying to create a seige situation .

It soulds like you are attributing him with more brains than he actually has - or the police with less.
Of course it wasn't-he'd already told Julie all was going well. Of course you have to believe Nevill telephoned Jeremy with an emergency situation for the latter to be innocent, but this is just the first, if not the biggest pitfall in his whole story.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:06:PM
Yes, the harvesting went very well after putting in 17hrs ! Which is what he spoke about, not the situation which he hadn't known of at WHF.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:08:PM
Yes, the harvesting went very well after putting in 17hrs ! Which is what he spoke about, not the situation which he hadn't known of at WHF.


He hadn't been working 17 hours. It's unlikely he'd been there 17 hours, either.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:12:PM

He hadn't been working 17 hours. It's unlikely he'd been there 17 hours, either.






6am start during harvesting, finishing at 9pm----15/15 & 1/2 hrs total.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:15:PM





6am start during harvesting, finishing at 9pm----15/15 & 1/2 hrs total.


We know he was there around 9 but is there recorded the time of his arrival?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:18:PM

We know he was there around 9 but is there recorded the time of his arrival?

Just what he said which was 07:30.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:19:PM

We know he was there around 9 but is there recorded the time of his arrival?






There will be somewhere. It's little things like that which are conveniently missed/forgotten .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:21:PM
Just what he said which was 07:30.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:28:PM
Just what he said which was 07:30.


I'd make that about 10.50 hours. Somewhat different from 17 hours.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:31:PM







Proof ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:33:PM





Proof ?


Surely, Lookout, you can't be accusing Jewemy of telling porkies? :o :o :o
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:34:PM





Proof ?

Errrrrrr - his statement?  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:37:PM

Surely, Lookout, you can't be accusing Jewemy of telling porkies? :o :o :o





Never ! He's as honest as I am-----to a fault !!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:37:PM




Never ! He's as honest as I am-----to a fault !!

Oh dear!  :o :o
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 07:38:PM
He woke at 7:00am. He was parked in the farm's kitchen yard at 7:30am, started work at 8:00am and left at 9:30pm.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:41:PM
He woke at 7:00am. He was parked in the farm's kitchen yard at 7:30am, started work at 8:00am and left at 9:30pm.

Hope you have proof of that Steve?  ;)

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:41:PM




Never ! He's as honest as I am-----to a fault !!


So what makes you think he did a 17 hour day?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on January 08, 2020, 07:45:PM

Maybe they both did it? Rather spoils the notion that neither was capable of standing on their own two feet..............or wiping their own nether regions :)) :)) :))

i don’t think having your mortgage/rent paid by your parents is standing on your own two feet at all.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:46:PM
i don’t think having your mortgage/rent paid by your parents is standing on your own two feet at all.

Like I said, the only thing he wanted from his parents was money.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 08, 2020, 07:47:PM





6am start during harvesting, finishing at 9pm----15/15 & 1/2 hrs total.
neville may have kept those hours ,but jb was far more flexible
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:49:PM
i don’t think having your mortgage/rent paid by your parents is standing on your own two feet at all.


But he wasn't living WITH them which meant they weren't breathing down his neck 24/7. I'll bet he saw it as being free, at first.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 07:49:PM
Hope you have proof of that Steve?  ;)
Well I didn't share Bamber's bed in Head Street, Goldhanger, but Carol Ann Lee's book is my trustworthy source.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:49:PM
i don’t think having your mortgage/rent paid by your parents is standing on your own two feet at all.





Nor do I.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on January 08, 2020, 07:51:PM
Like I said, the only thing he wanted from his parents was money.

well i was talking about both of them so they were both unable to stand on their own two feet although JB did hold down a job one way or another so was able to pay his bills?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:52:PM
Well I didn't share Bamber's bed in Head Street, Goldhanger, but Carol Ann Lee's book is my trustworthy source.

Good enough for me - but I doubt Lookout will be happy with that. However, it's also in his statement.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:54:PM
well i was talking about both of them so they were both unable to stand on their own two feet although JB did hold down a job one way or another so was able to pay his bills?

The house he got was on condition of him working on the farm. Not sure if he paid his own bills - I know he got free petrol.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 07:55:PM
Well I didn't share Bamber's bed in Head Street, Goldhanger, but Carol Ann Lee's book is my trustworthy source.





I'm sure it is----after only having made contact by writing half a dozen times to him until she was told by the prison to give it a rest and stop contacting him.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 07:56:PM

But he wasn't living WITH them which meant they weren't breathing down his neck 24/7. I'll bet he saw it as being free, at first.
The Bambers always tried to equalize things between daughter and son: Sheila's secretarial course was paid for so Jeremy got a round the world trip, Sheila got a model portfolio so Jeremy got another trip, Sheila got the Maida Vale flat after the Hampstead flat developed rising damp so Jeremy got the rent-free Goldhanger property. But there was no demonstrable love apart from June's heartfelt letter to be opened after her death, a symbol of her inadequacies which she all to readily acknowledged, but which was too little too late, as Jeremy screwed it up contemptuously and stuffed it into the glove compartment, whilst Sheila never got the chance to read it at all.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 07:57:PM




I'm sure it is----after only having made contact by writing half a dozen times to him until she was told by the prison to give it a rest and stop contacting him.


Did he tell you that, or did the prison authorities?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 07:57:PM
The house he got was on condition of him working on the farm. Not sure if he paid his own bills - I know he got free petrol.
The problem was his expenditure. Even after flogging cannabis in bank bags by mail order he had to rely on June writing him personal cheques to make ends meet.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 07:58:PM




I'm sure it is----after only having made contact by writing half a dozen times to him until she was told by the prison to give it a rest and stop contacting him.

Who told you that?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 08, 2020, 07:59:PM
The Bambers always tried to equalize things between daughter and son: Sheila's secretarial course was paid for so Jeremy got a round the world trip, Sheila got a portfolio so Jeremy got another trip, Sheila got the Maida Vale flat after the Hampstead flat developed rising damp so Jeremy got the rent-free Goldhanger property. But there was no demonstrable love apart from June's heartfelt letter to be opened after her death, a symbol of her inadequacies which she all to readily acknowledged, but which was too little too late, as Jeremy screwed it up contemptuously and stuffed it into the glove compartment, whilst Sheila never got the chance to read it at all.
in a nutshell.excellent post steve
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 08, 2020, 08:00:PM
How could he phone later? If they had gone straight in, it would have been obvious they had been dead quite some time. Jeremy wanted to be at the scene in order to intervene, that's why he started to get edgy when he was on hold with the West phone call. House full of guns and she knows how to use all of them - they are hardly going to rush in unarmed - but to control that, he needed to be there. If he's called 999, they's have gotten there before him and his role would have been much less influential.

How could they have got there before him? He was only three miles away. The police don't have emergency vehicles waiting on every corner.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 08:01:PM
neville may have kept those hours ,but jb was far more flexible

You have no idea and I have a very reliable source
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 08, 2020, 08:03:PM
jb could not have been absolutely sure where the police were or how fast they would get there
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 08:03:PM
How could they have got there before him? He was only three miles away. The police don't have emergency vehicles waiting on every corner.

Because when you call the emergency services, the message goes out as the person is talking on the phone and the nearest car takes the job. There may have been one close - he wouldn't know that - would he?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 08, 2020, 08:04:PM
You have no idea and I have a very reliable source
thank you :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 08, 2020, 08:06:PM
Because when you call the emergency services, the message goes out as the person is talking on the phone and the nearest car takes the job. There may have been one close - he wouldn't know that - would he?

The same goes for calling a police station too.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 08, 2020, 08:07:PM
You have no idea and I have a very reliable source
Yes and I'm sure Warwick Hislop has cracked the case by now, so we can all slumber peacefully in our beds.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 08:08:PM
The same goes for calling a police station too.

Not the same amount of urgency otherwise there would be no point in having an emergency service. West stopped the call to pass on the message to the control room. All that took time. A 999 call doesn't waste that time because as I said, if there were no difference, there would be no point in having an emergency number.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 08:10:PM
Yes and I'm sure Warwick Hislop has cracked the case by now, so we can all slumber peacefully in our beds.

Don't tell me Warwick is on the case?  :o :o :o :o ........................................... (who?  ;D)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 10:09:PM
First comments

On the whole it was ok

However I personally thought it was really bad that they did not show a timeline of how long they were outside the house and how long before the raid team were called in

Secondly , correct me if necessary I did not think the excuse of the trick of light in the window and not movement was used until much later ?

The radio representation of what was said about the bodies in the kitchen was wrong .

Question . Did jeremy say about target shooting as that’s not what he said in his statement ? Which contemporary statement from whom said that ?

Did sheila ask Colin about getting her injections stopped ?

The comment about the sound from upstairs being another officer ? Not sure if that was at the time ? Or used as an explanation later ?

Jeremy did not say the rifle was loaded I think he said there could be some in the magazine but the magazine had been removed ?

Not criticism just a few comments and questions really .



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 10:10:PM
I thought it was sensitively done. Cressida BC was exactly as I imagined Sheila to have been, delicate, wraith-like, troubled, frightened. The little boys were delightful. June was a shy and devout as her friends describe her. Nevill was the fun character his friends remember him as being. Even had I not known the story, I'd have been hooked. For the first time I understood what it must have felt like to be those two, unarmed policemen standing outside that farmhouse at dead of night with the possibility of a gun competent, deranged woman inside. However, I'm perfectly certain that supporter won't agree.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 10:12:PM
I agree to a certain extent , however the lack of expressing the time they were outside and why , to me was a major omission. It is very relevant . At least it showed jeremy begging them to go in.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 10:14:PM
First comments

On the whole it was ok

However I personally thought it was really bad that they did not show a timeline of how long they were outside the house and how long before the raid team were called in

Secondly , correct me if necessary I did not think the excuse of the trick of light in the window and not movement was used until much later ?

The radio representation of what was said about the bodies in the kitchen was wrong .

Question . Did jeremy say about target shooting as that’s not what he said in his statement ? Which contemporary statement from whom said that ?

Did sheila ask Colin about getting her injections stopped ?

The comment about the sound from upstairs being another officer ? Not sure if that was at the time ? Or used as an explanation later ?

Jeremy did not say the rifle was loaded I think he said there could be some in the magazine but the magazine had been removed ?

Not criticism just a few comments and questions really .
And he wasn’t wearing the same shoes as I thought he had on 😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 08, 2020, 10:18:PM
And he wasn’t wearing the same shoes as I thought he had on 😂😂😂😂


Little Jones appeared to be a nasty piece of work. Little man syndrome, possibly.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 08, 2020, 10:21:PM
Did Stan Jones really look at Sheila's body like that, and was he told then that she was shot twice?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 08, 2020, 10:23:PM
Did Stan Jones really look at Sheila's body like that, and was he told then that she was shot twice?

No.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 08, 2020, 10:32:PM
I agree to a certain extent , however the lack of expressing the time they were outside and why , to me was a major omission. It is very relevant . At least it showed jeremy begging them to go in.

Maybe they will address these things later when they cover the trial?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 08, 2020, 10:34:PM
Also noticed the time on the police station clock when Jeremy called was 3.26...this is bound to cause some discussion ;)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 08, 2020, 10:35:PM
Maybe they will address these things later when they cover the trial?
Well said Janet, it’s impossible to fit everything in a hour.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 10:39:PM
Yes and I'm sure Warwick Hislop has cracked the case by now, so we can all slumber peacefully in our beds.


Were you born rude but your part of the gang so what else should I expect

1) where have I said Warwick would crack the case ?
Let’s recap
Warwick who I see in town three times a week used to spray the crops for 3 years from Bunting airstrip
Neville used to come up to see on his own and sometimes with Jeremy
They got on well
Grow up and stop being pathetic

I wonder if Julie was watching

Ouch
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 10:41:PM
Maybe they will address these things later when they cover the trial?

How lovely to see you Janet
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 10:43:PM
No.

they also did not cover the fact that the photographer said there were so many officers in the house he lost count .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 08, 2020, 10:47:PM
Nor did Colin stay when he'd dropped Sheila and the twins off-----he certainly didn't have supper.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 08, 2020, 10:48:PM
How lovely to see you Janet

Thank you Jackie. With the start of the new drama series and JB's legal team submitting a Judicial Review, I am afraid I am falling down the rabbit hole again!  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 08, 2020, 10:57:PM
Nor did Colin stay when he'd dropped Sheila and the twins off-----he certainly didn't have supper.

I wasn't sure whether or not this had been taken from CC's book since I have never read it...Getting my copy delivered tomorrow.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 08, 2020, 11:07:PM
Thank you Jackie. With the start of the new drama series and JB's legal team submitting a Judicial Review, I am afraid I am falling down the rabbit hole again!  ;D

I know so many questions unanswered still. Hopefully if enough new people take an interest in this case it might force the authorities to release everything
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 08, 2020, 11:15:PM

Were you born rude but your part of the gang so what else should I expect

1) where have I said Warwick would crack the case ?
Let’s recap
Warwick who I see in town three times a week used to spray the crops for 3 years from Bunting airstrip
Neville used to come up to see on his own and sometimes with Jeremy
They got on well
Grow up and stop being pathetic

I wonder if Julie was watching

Ouch
oh dear
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 08, 2020, 11:53:PM
I answered my own question . Bewes and myal and saxby said Jeremy mentioned target shooting . I also never realised that bewes and myals statements were not done until the  16th August . And they are typed . Now I know they are at the same scene but the statements are actually mirror images with just their names changed . And yet they said the conversations were not noted they were doing it from memory . They must have been twins separated at birth  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 01:27:AM
And he wasn’t wearing the same shoes as I thought he had on 😂😂😂😂

 ;D ;D ;D

I thought it was great, OK, so some aspects differ from what we know, but they only have so much time and have to introduce the relevant characters. But actually, it was very fair to Jeremy, there were lost of things they could have added but chose to leave out. Perhaps that is simply to build suspense.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 09, 2020, 03:47:AM
;D ;D ;D

I thought it was great, OK, so some aspects differ from what we know, but they only have so much time and have to introduce the relevant characters. But actually, it was very fair to Jeremy, there were lost of things they could have added but chose to leave out. Perhaps that is simply to build suspense.

Yes indeed Caroline. I think the set designers in particular did an incredible job recreating the inside of WHF. You can see this towards the end when DS Stan Jones does his walkthrough of the house (not the actual house I know but they do well with what they've got). Take a look at the close-up of the kitchen counter (they linger on it for a few seconds). The care taken to make this look as accurate and detailed as possible is amazing.

EDIT:
In fact at the end, I had to go and rewatch that part because I wasn't sure whether or not they had inserted tha actual crime scene photo!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 04:43:AM
Yes indeed Caroline. I think the set designers in particular did an incredible job recreating the inside of WHF. You can see this towards the end when DS Stan Jones does his walkthrough of the house (not the actual house I know but they do well with what they've got). Take a look at the close-up of the kitchen counter (they linger on it for a few seconds). The care taken to make this look as accurate and detailed as possible is amazing.

EDIT:
In fact at the end, I had to go and rewatch that part because I wasn't sure whether or not they had inserted tha actual crime scene photo!

Oh I agree Janet, the set was amazing and very eerie when they walked around the crime scene. The counter top with the telephone was exact and I am sure they even found the same crockery on the table. Can't wait for next episode. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 09, 2020, 08:32:AM
Oh I agree Janet, the set was amazing and very eerie when they walked around the crime scene. The counter top with the telephone was exact and I am sure they even found the same crockery on the table. Can't wait for next episode.


It was hugely evocative taking a walk through the house and seeing the same dreadful green/gold fleur de lis,and flowered wall papers. I loved the little and immaculate recreations of the SOC pictures, ie family pictures, work top clutter, ect.

However, far and away, the most important aspect, to me -forget dotted "I"s and crossed "T"s- is how all the characters now have substance. They're flesh and blood. They've become real.

 No longer will any of us talk about the twins without recalling that little blond dot who clung so heartbreakingly to his daddy because he didn't want him to go.

 I hope, from now on, although, for numerous reasons, they didn't do a good job, people will have more respect for what they did that morning. Their shock was palpable. The guy who found the boys didn't know how to get the words out. It's exactly how I'd imagined it would have been for them. Totally beyond their comprehension. I hope it was noted that the guy corrected himself who'd believed he'd seen the body of a woman!

Of course we can -and undoubtedly will- pick holes in it, but over all, if it carries on in the same way, it will be an excellent production.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 08:45:AM

It was hugely evocative taking a walk through the house and seeing the same dreadful green/gold fleur de lis,and flowered wall papers. I loved the little and immaculate recreations of the SOC pictures, ie family pictures, work top clutter, ect.

However, far and away, the most important aspect, to me -forget dotted "I"s and crossed "T"s- is how all the characters now have substance. They're flesh and blood. They've become real.

 No longer will any of us talk about the twins without recalling that little blond dot who clung so heartbreakingly to his daddy because he didn't want him to go.

 I hope, from now on, although, for numerous reasons, they didn't do a good job, people will have more respect for what they did that morning. Their shock was palpable. The guy who found the boys didn't know how to get the words out. It's exactly how I'd imagined it would have been for them. Totally beyond their comprehension. I hope it was noted that the guy corrected himself who'd believed he'd seen the body of a woman!

Of course we can -and undoubtedly will- pick holes in it, but over all, if it carries on in the same way, it will be an excellent production.
Excellent post Jane, must admit it brought tears to my eyes seeing the bond Colin had with the twins.  It gave a balanced opening first episode, exactly how the police seen it, I’m sure the twist will be even better, offering a glimpse of what’s to come with the science where Bamber is caught smiling in the arms of Julie.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 09:50:AM
I'm wondering if " Taff " Jones really did shout like his character did ? We'll never know will we, but it wasn't altogether professional and would naturally have caused a lot of unrest among the rest of the officers ?. It's not the way to be when leading a team. I'd have expected more reverence during that time.

When someone loses their temper and appears to belittle you because of their higher position it's never a good move and can/does create hostilities which in this case is exactly what happened.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 09, 2020, 09:58:AM
I'm wondering if " Taff " Jones really did shout like his character did ? We'll never know will we, but it wasn't altogether professional and would naturally have caused a lot of unrest among the rest of the officers ?. It's not the way to be when leading a team. I'd have expected more reverence during that time.

When someone loses their temper and appears to belittle you because of their higher position it's never a good move and can/does create hostilities which in this case is exactly what happened.


But Lookout, you have to look at his psychology! Many men of "diminished stature" feel the need to exert authority. They have "attitude". The way the two Jones's have been cast is a perfect example of this. You have the larger, more placid, thinking character, balanced against the small, fiery, "I'm in charge" character. I suspect that now, MORE than then, there maybe more dialogue between ranks, hopefully leading to more comfortable working relationships.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 10:05:AM

But Lookout, you have to look at his psychology! Many men of "diminished stature" feel the need to exert authority. The way the two Jones's have been cast is a perfect example of this. You have the larger, more placid, thinking character, balanced against the small, fiery, "I'm in charge" character. I suspect that now, MORE than then, there maybe more dialogue between ranks, hopefully leading to more comfortable working relationships.





SJ was by no means the robust " giant-like " figure portrayed last night. The real thing, pictured with JM isn't much taller/bigger than she. " Taff " was no small figure either in his pic which was taken with other colleagues at some unction or other.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 10:12:AM
Anyone inclined to "get their own back "on a bossy individual will go to great lengths to achieve their goal, which is exactly what SJ did, though it mattered even less as time went on as " Taff " was dead anyway.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 10:19:AM
Anyone inclined to "get their own back "on a bossy individual will go to great lengths to achieve their goal, which is exactly what SJ did, though it mattered even less as time went on as " Taff " was dead anyway.
poor stan getting stick for doing his job and uncovering a mass murderer
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 10:22:AM
poor stan getting stick for doing his job and uncovering a mass murderer






Albeit the wrong one.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 10:26:AM





Albeit the wrong one.
depends what side of the fence ones on,lookout,
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 10:27:AM
depends what side of the fence ones on,lookout,






Of course it does.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 10:35:AM
poor stan getting stick for doing his job and uncovering a mass murderer
He deserves a lot of praise Sami. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 09, 2020, 10:48:AM
poor stan getting stick for doing his job and uncovering a mass murderer

Stan didn't uncover anything. All he did was collect a silencer from the relatives and hand it to DI Cook. He then went on holiday for the rest of month. Then took Julies statement when he got back.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 10:49:AM
I won't watch it, precisely because it is a one-sided stitch-up. It's like when Hollywood tries to sell you their master's version of events: we are the good guys vs them are the bad guys. I think its commissioning will likely have been murky, at least somewhere along the line.

If you are a 'supporter' you have to just suck it up. It's what we're used to. Instead, we tend to prefer channelling our interest towards ballistics experts like Boyce or from the USA. We realise things sometimes get rejected because they're not up to scratch [pardon the pun re Sutherst and the mantlepiece]. But we also know they get rejected on technicalities.. because.. they have to be rejected. Otherwise, 'true story' dramas like this would never get made.

I've said for years public opinion is the key to overturning the conviction. It's quite obvious that the people behind this drama are accutely aware of this also.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 10:59:AM
I am a retred Police officer and after leaving the Met Police, I spent 10 years on Essex Police M.I.T. I have always believed that Jeremy is innocent and have had many heated discussions with Essex Police officers who point blank refuse to listen to reason. This is one of the U.K.'s worst cases of injustice and Essex Police should be made to cooperate fully.
ROY TYZACK, Brentwood, ENG, United Kingdom2 days ago
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 10:59:AM
I won't watch it, precisely because it is a one-sided stitch-up. It's like when Hollywood tries to sell you their master's version of events: we are the good guys vs them are the bad guys. I think its commissioning will likely have been murky, at least somewhere along the line.

If you are a 'supporter' you have to just suck it up. It's what we're used to. Instead, we tend to prefer channelling our interest towards ballistics experts like Boyce or from the USA. We realise things sometimes get rejected because they're not up to scratch [pardon the pun re Sutherst and the mantlepiece]. But we also know they get rejected on technicalities.. because.. they have to be rejected. Otherwise, 'true story' dramas like this would never get made.

I've said for years public opinion is the key to overturning the conviction. It's quite obvious that the people behind this drama are accutely aware of this also.
I don’t know Roch, the opening episode left viewers with some doubt, I must admit sometimes it is hard watching and you know the outcome, but it’s still interesting and I’ve had very good feed back from neutrals.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 11:26:AM
I don’t know Roch, the opening episode left viewers with some doubt, I must admit sometimes it is hard watching and you know the outcome, but it’s still interesting and I’ve had very good feed back from neutrals.

Well RJ, I may change my mind and watch it. But I think as the episodes go on, it's got to look more like he did it. If this were not the case, and they wanted to be more neutral, they would have cooperated with the defence. I should add, I feel heartfelt sorry for Colin. He believes what he believes. But I think that while he already knew Jeremy was no angel, he has been sold a perpetrator by the police and relatives. If it was ever proven in a court of law that it could not have been JB, how will Colin cope?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 11:36:AM
I am a retred Police officer and after leaving the Met Police, I spent 10 years on Essex Police M.I.T. I have always believed that Jeremy is innocent and have had many heated discussions with Essex Police officers who point blank refuse to listen to reason. This is one of the U.K.'s worst cases of injustice and Essex Police should be made to cooperate fully.
ROY TYZACK, Brentwood, ENG, United Kingdom2 days ago

Fair play to him for writing that. Presumably, he wouldn't get on very well with the wives of some of the anonymous ex or deceased EP officers that we get told on here 'were convinced'  ;D
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 11:45:AM
Well RJ, I may change my mind and watch it. But I think as the episodes go on, it's got to look more like he did it. If this were not the case, and they wanted to be more neutral, they would have cooperated with the defence. I should add, I feel heartfelt sorry for Colin. He believes what he believes. But I think that while he already knew Jeremy was no angel, he has been sold a perpetrator by the police and relatives. If it was ever proven in a court of law that it could not have been JB, how will Colin cope?
Good post Roch and agree with you, I think it just goes along with what we know, not what we don’t?  Posters have wanted a six part series now they’ve got one, Jackie wanted one just on Julie, I would have watched this as well or anything that can or show him innocent.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 11:51:AM
Good post Roch and agree with you, I think it just goes along with what we know, not what we don’t?  Posters have wanted a six part series now they’ve got one, Jackie wanted one just on Julie, I would have watched this as well or anything that can or show him innocent.
.

Yes fair comment, I can see where you're coming from there.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 11:58:AM
Not overly impressed so far.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 12:01:PM
I am a retred Police officer and after leaving the Met Police, I spent 10 years on Essex Police M.I.T. I have always believed that Jeremy is innocent and have had many heated discussions with Essex Police officers who point blank refuse to listen to reason. This is one of the U.K.'s worst cases of injustice and Essex Police should be made to cooperate fully.
ROY TYZACK, Brentwood, ENG, United Kingdom2 days ago





This is the retired officer I tried to get in touch with yesterday to ask how he arrived at his conclusion of innocent. He'd served with the murder squad at EP latterly before his retirement. A good-living man with many on-going interests.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 09, 2020, 12:40:PM
I don’t know Roch, the opening episode left viewers with some doubt, I must admit sometimes it is hard watching and you know the outcome, but it’s still interesting and I’ve had very good feed back from neutrals.

 Personnally I think they were sewing the seeds of whats to come - the sobbing reported by the police came across as hysterical overacting

the muting of what Colin said at the door

The looks by Julie at Jeremy actually looked a bit like they were in on it together if you know what I mean- not that she was shocked he had done it .

the subtle trick of the light at the window quote .

And pointing out about Jeremy having dyed his hair like a film star

Subtle but indications of what to come I think .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 12:44:PM
Personnally I think they were sewing the seeds of whats to come - the sobbing reported by the police came across as hysterical overacting

the muting of what Colin said at the door

The looks by Julie at Jeremy actually looked a bit like they were in on it together if you know what I mean- not that she was shocked he had done it .

the subtle trick of the light at the window quote .

And pointing out about Jeremy having dyed his hair like a film star

Subtle but indications of what to come I think .
Have to agree, they take you one direction and have an art in leading you in another, they always use drama to good affect. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 09, 2020, 12:48:PM
Perhaps someone can answer these questions for me ?

Is there a time line on here about the time between the police arriving - the raid team being called and them going in to the house ?

I was interested in the comment Jeremy was alleged to have said about target shooting ( does not relate to his statements)  but it seems the first statements from the officers who met  him see to be from 16th august ( although not signed ) . Because it was thought to be at the beginning murder suicide surely those officers would do statements immediately on 8th August  ? And why did they say notes not made of conversations -statements done from memory ? That means they could say what they wanted really ? I just find it all a bit odd .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 12:50:PM
I'm wondering if " Taff " Jones really did shout like his character did ? We'll never know will we, but it wasn't altogether professional and would naturally have caused a lot of unrest among the rest of the officers ?. It's not the way to be when leading a team. I'd have expected more reverence during that time.

When someone loses their temper and appears to belittle you because of their higher position it's never a good move and can/does create hostilities which in this case is exactly what happened.

From all accounts, yes, he was bad tempered.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 09, 2020, 12:57:PM
I am a retred Police officer and after leaving the Met Police, I spent 10 years on Essex Police M.I.T. I have always believed that Jeremy is innocent and have had many heated discussions with Essex Police officers who point blank refuse to listen to reason. This is one of the U.K.'s worst cases of injustice and Essex Police should be made to cooperate fully.
ROY TYZACK, Brentwood, ENG, United Kingdom2 days ago


My friend's husband, a retired police officer who spent his entire working life with EP. and was one of those present, said from the off, that he was guilty. One cancels out the other.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 01:16:PM

My friend's husband, a retired police officer who spent his entire working life with EP. and was one of those present, said from the off, that he was guilty. One cancels out the other.

He doesn't say he worked on the case or what his opinion is based on.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 01:24:PM
He doesn't say he worked on the case or what his opinion is based on.

He probably hasn't been asked. Tbf, neither does Jane's friend's husband.  But 10 years in M.I.T. within the same force that prosecuted Bamber.. does make you wonder.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 09, 2020, 01:26:PM
He doesn't say he worked on the case or what his opinion is based on.


He spoke with Jeremy, Caroline. His opinion/conclusion was based on body language, eye contact, the way questions were answered, and years of experience of being lied to.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 01:37:PM
He probably hasn't been asked. Tbf, neither does Jane's friend's husband.  But 10 years in M.I.T. within the same force that prosecuted Bamber.. does make you wonder.

It says a lot that he gave his name
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 01:42:PM
Personnally I think they were sewing the seeds of whats to come - the sobbing reported by the police came across as hysterical overacting

the muting of what Colin said at the door

The looks by Julie at Jeremy actually looked a bit like they were in on it together if you know what I mean- not that she was shocked he had done it .

the subtle trick of the light at the window quote .

And pointing out about Jeremy having dyed his hair like a film star

Subtle but indications of what to come I think .


I was waiting to see that part and it never happened even though it’s so relevant to the case
I hope we will hear about Sheila’s medical records referring to her conversations with her psychiatrist where she informs him she was afraid she would kill her children.  Or will that be left out
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 02:30:PM
Personnally I think they were sewing the seeds of whats to come - the sobbing reported by the police came across as hysterical overacting

the muting of what Colin said at the door

The looks by Julie at Jeremy actually looked a bit like they were in on it together if you know what I mean- not that she was shocked he had done it .

the subtle trick of the light at the window quote .

And pointing out about Jeremy having dyed his hair like a film star

Subtle but indications of what to come I think .

I heard what he said, he said (when told Sheila was dead) "She's finally done it" - then he was told about the twins and staggered backwards.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 02:35:PM
I heard what he said, he said (when told Sheila was dead) "She's finally done it" - then he was told about the twins and staggered backwards.
Yes I heard that Caroline
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 09, 2020, 05:03:PM

My friend's husband, a retired police officer who spent his entire working life with EP. and was one of those present, said from the off, that he was guilty. One cancels out the other.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/731634895ee79f6b8b63009db1dc8ea6/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 05:09:PM
He probably hasn't been asked. Tbf, neither does Jane's friend's husband.  But 10 years in M.I.T. within the same force that prosecuted Bamber.. does make you wonder.

What a coincidence he lives so close to me.  He is very open about his background
I knew this drama would be so could for contacts.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 09, 2020, 05:13:PM
I heard what he said, he said (when told Sheila was dead) "She's finally done it" - then he was told about the twins and staggered backwards.

It was very quiet and difficult to hear and faded away compared to other dialogue .which is why I said muted . He said the words but you could hardly hear it . Then they faded more when he was told about the boys .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 09, 2020, 05:16:PM

My friend's husband, a retired police officer who spent his entire working life with EP. and was one of those present, said from the off, that he was guilty. One cancels out the other.

Do you think he could answer why the statements by the officers with Jeremy were not made immediately ? It was still a murder scene ? Why not until the 16 th of August ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on January 09, 2020, 05:20:PM
i thought shiela was exactly how Jb said she was the previous evening and to me looked like she was going to lose it at any second. other than that it’s quite a good drama so far but it isn’t going to make any difference to what’s happening legally at the moment or at least it shouldn’t .
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 05:23:PM
It was very quiet and difficult to hear and faded away compared to other dialogue .which is why I said muted . He said the words but you could hardly hear it . Then they faded more when he was told about the boys .

But it was still audible.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 05:26:PM
i thought shiela was exactly how Jb said she was the previous evening and to me looked like she was going to lose it at any second. other than that it’s quite a good drama so far but it isn’t going to make any difference to what’s happening legally at the moment or at least it shouldn’t .

Of course it won't - if anything IS happening.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 05:26:PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/731634895ee79f6b8b63009db1dc8ea6/tenor.gif)

If Jane's source is to be believed, an officer who worked on the case could sense that Jeremy was lying during interviews.  This Tyzack fellow seems to be advocating almost the opposite, ie that Essex Police have been dishonest and obstructive (while claiming to have cooperated). Oh to have been a fly on the wall regarding internal arguments eh.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 05:28:PM
If Jane's source is to be believed, an officer who worked on the case could sense that Jeremy was lying during interviews.  This Tyzack fellow seems to be advocating almost the opposite, ie that Essex Police have been dishonest and obstructive (whole claiming to have cooperated). Oh to have been a fly on the wall regarding internal arguments eh.

Jane's source worked on the case from day one - this other bloke didn't work on it at all.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 05:46:PM
I'd rather believe Roy Tyzack. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 05:52:PM
I'd rather believe Roy Tyzack.






This chap's pedigree is excellent ! I did try to get in touch with him yesterday as he's on Facebook and I've never been on Facebook-----but, it seemed that someone was trying to use my name ( surname  too) as there was a security issue so I gave up on it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 05:54:PM
I'd rather believe Roy Tyzack.

Roy Tyzack is very open about who he is. Unlike the ‘mystery man’ Jane alleges to know.

Facts again

There will be more to come out of this drama just like I predicted

Warwick Heslop is a real person as well who I will see on Saturday again
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 05:56:PM


I will probably end up speaking to him or Mark Williams Thomas will


This chap's pedigree is excellent ! I did try to get in touch with him yesterday as he's on Facebook and I've never been on Facebook-----but, it seemed that someone was trying to use my name ( surname  too) as there was a security issue so I gave up on it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 09, 2020, 06:01:PM







I hope so. The chap appears to be very open and honest.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 09, 2020, 06:10:PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/731634895ee79f6b8b63009db1dc8ea6/tenor.gif)

Moderators can you step in please.

David is goading and being abusive again. To another poster. Despite a recent ban.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 09, 2020, 06:15:PM
David needs to decide on whether he is going to apologise to myself, Caroline and Jane J.

It's no secret he attempted a quiet stance change from hardcore guilter - (so much evidence it can only be police corruption) because he would not be allowed to goad & abuse supporters.

His two reasons for the huge stance change were pathetic and have been dismissed.

Hopefully he will be a man about it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 06:17:PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/731634895ee79f6b8b63009db1dc8ea6/tenor.gif)
why do you have to goad other members because  you dont agree with their posts.most of your posts are BULLSHIT YOURE JUST A LITTLE KID
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 06:26:PM
why do you have to goad other members because  you dont agree with their posts.most of your posts are BULLSHIT YOURE JUST A LITTLE KID
Quite obvious his medication change for the new year isn’t working Sami?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 06:27:PM
why do you have to goad other members because  you dont agree with their posts.most of your posts are BULLSHIT YOURE JUST A LITTLE KID

I thought it was funny, it not as bad as the bullying that goes on by you and your gang or being accused of doing something you haven’t done
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 06:31:PM
I thought it was funny, it not as bad as the bullying that goes on by you and your gang or being accused of doing something you haven’t done
i thought you might reply for your other half ,both of you SHARE  the same traits,goading and being rude to other members because you disagree with them CHILDISH :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 06:35:PM
Quite obvious his medication change for the new year isn’t working Sami?
he is just idiotic,goading jane ,for a perfectly reasonable post.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 06:38:PM
i thought you might reply for your other half ,both of you SHARE  the same traits,goading and being rude to other members because you disagree with them CHILDISH :)) :))

It is pathetic, you cannot compare a mystery ? Policeman that probably doesn’t exist to a policeman that’s happy to put his name out there

I am sure Mark w Thomas will check to see if he is genuine

Facts you see Sami and Janes language to me on here was vile and she was not banned
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 06:41:PM
he is just idiotic,goading jane ,for a perfectly reasonable post.
Yes they’re both the same, she had a go at NGB for nothing yesterday
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 06:44:PM
Yes they’re both the same, she had a go at NGB for nothing yesterday


Ask him if it was nothing

I am sick to death of false accusations by trolls when this is meant to be a miscarriage of Justice sight
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 06:46:PM
he is just idiotic,goading jane ,for a perfectly reasonable post.
Im telling NGB I’m leaving the forum, I’m fed up with her disruptive attitude Sami and  I suggest everyone does the same. Let them debate amongst themselves.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 06:47:PM

Ask him if it was nothing

I am sick to death of false accusations by trolls when this is meant to be a miscarriage of Justice sight
Hope the press see it that way, your love letters may help him if they see them.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 09, 2020, 06:51:PM
why do you have to goad other members because  you dont agree with their posts.most of your posts are BULLSHIT YOURE JUST A LITTLE KID

Hopefully there will be some clarification today regarding image goaging/abuse. This was asked for a few weeks ago when David was doing the same thing. But there was no response.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 06:54:PM
Im telling NGB I’m leaving the forum, I’m fed up with her disruptive attitude Sami and  I suggest everyone does the same. Let them debate amongst themselves.
It wouldn't be the same without you Real Justice. We all have something to contribute. The problem is the moderators have been too lax for a long time.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 06:56:PM
He's a real person at least, however misguided. https://www.facebook.com/roy.tyzack
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on January 09, 2020, 07:02:PM
It wouldn't be the same without you Real Justice. We all have something to contribute. The problem is the moderators have been too lax for a long time.

I thought you might stick your oar in again.  An attack on the mod team again.  As I have explained before if we intervene by removing posts we open ourselves to attack by those who say they have only posted annoying or attacking posts because they have been attacked first.  Obviously we act very quickly to remove the worst posts, some of which have been horrific.  However in relation to posts like the one Adam has complained of, I accept it is annoying and can be seen as goading, but there is a lot of other material, for example directed against Lookout, which would have to be removed if we are to be consistent.  That would provoke a reaction from other posters.  We try to moderate with a light touch which we think is in the best interests of the forum.  There is one member here who is really pushing her luck however and much more in the same vein will result in a ban.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 07:07:PM
I thought you might stick your oar in again.  An attack on the mod team again.  As I have explained before if we intervene by removing posts we open ourselves to attack by those who say they have only posted annoying or attacking posts because they have been attacked first.  Obviously we act very quickly to remove the worst posts, some of which have been horrific.  However in relation to posts like the one Adam has complained of, I accept it is annoying and can be seen as goading, but there is a lot of other material, for example directed against Lookout, which would have to be removed if we are to be consistent.  That would provoke a reaction from other posters.  We try to moderate with a light touch which we think is in the best interests of the forum.  There is one member here who is really pushing her luck however and much more in the same vein will result in a ban.


Im telling NGB I’m leaving the forum, I’m fed up with her disruptive attitude Sami and  I suggest everyone does the same. Let them debate amongst themselves.


Unbelievable, your obviously throwing your toys out of the pram because someone has come forward in support of Jeremy.  You SHOULD be saying it’s brilliant when anyone comes forward with any new facts
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 07:09:PM
It is pathetic, you cannot compare a mystery ? Policeman that probably doesn’t exist to a policeman that’s happy to put his name out there

I am sure Mark w Thomas will check to see if he is genuine

Facts you see Sami and Janes language to me on here was vile and she was not banned
you and david dont have to reply with words like bullshit and pathetic if you disagree,why not just say i dont believe you or i dont agree with you.would be much easier and better for everyone
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 07:15:PM
I was accused on this forum of giving out some personal details

It was absolutely untrue

It was a troll who was allowed to continue posting on this forum

Also this same troll threatened something bad was going to happen to me

Maggie can confirm this

This is meant to be a site to show miscarriage of justice cases

I have never had an apology so I have suffered more trolling on the site that any member

This is never going to be addressed and now I am being threatened with a ban because I dare to ask for an apology



Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 07:22:PM
I thought you might stick your oar in again.  An attack on the mod team again.  As I have explained before if we intervene by removing posts we open ourselves to attack by those who say they have only posted annoying or attacking posts because they have been attacked first.  Obviously we act very quickly to remove the worst posts, some of which have been horrific.  However in relation to posts like the one Adam has complained of, I accept it is annoying and can be seen as goading, but there is a lot of other material, for example directed against Lookout, which would have to be removed if we are to be consistent.  That would provoke a reaction from other posters.  We try to moderate with a light touch which we think is in the best interests of the forum.  There is one member here who is really pushing her luck however and much more in the same vein will result in a ban.
I didn't even know you were a moderator, believe this or not. The posting of cartoon-type insults should be completely banned. The other rule which has been flagrantly flouted is not introducing oneself in the Foyer before proceeding to post.

I know now that you tried to get rid of me several years ago. You would have succeeded but for Caroline reinstating me. Now calm down and do your job properly.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 07:23:PM
I was accused on this forum of giving out some personal details

It was absolutely untrue

It was a troll who was allowed to continue posting on this forum

Also this same troll threatened something bad was going to happen to me

Maggie can confirm this

This is meant to be a site to show miscarriage of justice cases

I have never had an apology so I have suffered more trolling on the site that any member

This is never going to be addressed and now I am being threatened with a ban because I dare to ask for an apology
ive been called a fair few names myself but ive never asked anyone to apologise to me,as for the troll making threats than i agree as all members will threats should result in an automatic ban,we have gone off topic and the last 20 posts were all because of davids childish attitude,lets move on
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 07:25:PM

Unbelievable, your obviously throwing your toys out of the pram because someone has come forward in support of Jeremy.  You SHOULD be saying it’s brilliant when anyone comes forward with any new facts
But there are no new facts Jackie: that's the point. What new facts has Roy Tyzack brought to the debate?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 07:29:PM
But there are no new facts Jackie: that's the point. What new facts has Roy Tyzack brought to the debate?
perfectly sound question steve ,i to will be eager to hear the answer
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 07:40:PM
I didn't even know you were a moderator, believe this or not. The posting of cartoon-type insults should be completely banned. The other rule which has been flagrantly flouted is not introducing oneself in the Foyer before proceeding to post.

I know now that you tried to get rid of me several years ago. You would have succeeded but for Caroline reinstating me. Now calm down and do your job properly.


Well he wasn’t banned even after making physical threats and now my passport has been sent to the mods and they didn’t tell me.

Nobody has a copy of my passport so I assume it was sent in by ‘a policeman’
I repeat nobody has a copy of my passport so how worrying is that
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:41:PM
why do you have to goad other members because  you dont agree with their posts.most of your posts are BULLSHIT YOURE JUST A LITTLE KID

The meter is detecting HIS bullshit - it must be draining the national grid! I know for a FACT that Jane knew a major player in the investigation - and if she doesn't want to say who it is, it means she respects the privacy of the person in question and their family - one of which is a very good friend of hers. Sucks for David that his goading (once again) shows him up to be an immature moron!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:44:PM
I thought it was funny, it not as bad as the bullying that goes on by you and your gang or being accused of doing something you haven’t done

It would have been if it was posted in response to your posts - accurate too!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 07:44:PM

Well he wasn’t banned even after making physical threats and now my passport has been sent to the mods and they didn’t tell me.

Nobody has a copy of my passport so I assume it was sent in by ‘a policeman’
I repeat nobody has a copy of my passport so how worrying is that


I obviously pose some kind of threat to someone for them to set up fake profiles on twitter and get hold of my passort
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 07:45:PM
I didn't even know you were a moderator, believe this or not. The posting of cartoon-type insults should be completely banned. The other rule which has been flagrantly flouted is not introducing oneself in the Foyer before proceeding to post.

I know now that you tried to get rid of me several years ago. You would have succeeded but for Caroline reinstating me. Now calm down and do your job properly.
   You should understand that berating the moderators of the forum in that kind of patronising tone is a red line. You ought to apologise but you won't.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 07:46:PM
It would have been if it was posted in response to your posts - accurate too!

Go and bully someone else you nasty women.
At least it’s been acknowledged Lookout gets bullied

It’s disgusting
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:46:PM
It is pathetic, you cannot compare a mystery ? Policeman that probably doesn’t exist to a policeman that’s happy to put his name out there

I am sure Mark w Thomas will check to see if he is genuine

Facts you see Sami and Janes language to me on here was vile and she was not banned

Oh he exists - he played a MAJOR part unlike Warwick whatshisname and a copper who's only connection to the case, is that he once worked in Essex.  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 07:47:PM
   You should understand that berating the moderators of the forum in that kind of patronising tone is a red line. You ought to apologise but you won't.
   You also betray those who have spoken in confidence to you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:49:PM
I didn't even know you were a moderator, believe this or not. The posting of cartoon-type insults should be completely banned. The other rule which has been flagrantly flouted is not introducing oneself in the Foyer before proceeding to post.

I know now that you tried to get rid of me several years ago. You would have succeeded but for Caroline reinstating me. Now calm down and do your job properly.

Steve, that's really not fair, I might have physically reinstated you but it would have been on the say so of NGB. David has been told many times about goading with childish cartoons etc. he takes no notice because he's an immature adult school boy who thinks he's still down with the kids. He's more to be ignored than anything else.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:50:PM
I was accused on this forum of giving out some personal details

It was absolutely untrue

It was a troll who was allowed to continue posting on this forum

Also this same troll threatened something bad was going to happen to me

Maggie can confirm this

This is meant to be a site to show miscarriage of justice cases

I have never had an apology so I have suffered more trolling on the site that any member

This is never going to be addressed and now I am being threatened with a ban because I dare to ask for an apology

AHHHHHHHHHHH SHADDAP!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on January 09, 2020, 07:51:PM
I didn't even know you were a moderator, believe this or not. The posting of cartoon-type insults should be completely banned. The other rule which has been flagrantly flouted is not introducing oneself in the Foyer before proceeding to post.

I know now that you tried to get rid of me several years ago. You would have succeeded but for Caroline reinstating me. Now calm down and do your job properly.

I am an administrator, which includes all mod privileges.  I lead the mod team.

Your statement is a lie as I am sure Caroline will confirm.  If I had wanted to get rid of you I would have done so.  Caroline did not reinstate you and she would not have done.  I banned you once for 24 hours but lifted the ban early.  You are within a whisker of getting a new ban now.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 09, 2020, 07:54:PM
Hi Gringo I could not believe what I was reading with steve's posts to NGB does he not realise that NGB is totally in charge of this forum and I think steve is lucky to be still a member and he does owe NGB an apology and I would suggest he gives him one very quickly.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 07:55:PM
I am an administrator, which includes all mod privileges.  I lead the mod team.

Your statement is a lie as I am sure Caroline will confirm.  If I had wanted to get rid of you I would have done so.  Caroline did not reinstate you and she would not have done.  I banned you once for 24 hours but lifted the ban early.  You are within a whisker of getting a new ban now.
I don't really know what to say. Mike, Lookout, Caroline, Jane and myself have contributed the most to this site. Am I supposed to grovel because my spade work has not been appreciated? I will not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 07:55:PM
Hi Gringo I could not believe what I was reading with steve's posts to NGB does he not realise that NGB is totally in charge of this forum and I think steve is lucky to be still a member and he does owe NGB an apology and I would suggest he gives him one very quickly.
Susan I will not.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:56:PM
Go and bully someone else you nasty women.
At least it’s been acknowledged Lookout gets bullied

It’s disgusting

Lookout gives as good as she gets and she would be the first to admit it.

How YOU dare call anyone nasty is beyond belief - I have NEVER come across anyone quite like you with your attempt to intimidate at every opportunity; those people you seem to think are an enemy. You have simply met your match with me because I think you're a joke and you don't intimidate me one bit - you just make me laugh!  ;D ;D ;D ;D - Opps! There's one of them there 'explanation' marks again! (and another  ;D ;D)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 07:58:PM
Hi Gringo I could not believe what I was reading with steve's posts to NGB does he not realise that NGB is totally in charge of this forum and I think steve is lucky to be still a member and he does owe NGB an apology and I would suggest he gives him one very quickly.
    I agree Susan. Steve has crossed a red line and should recognise that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on January 09, 2020, 07:58:PM
I don't really know what to say. Mike, Lookout, Caroline, Jane and myself have contributed the most to this site. Am I supposed to grovel because my spade work has not been appreciated? I will not.

What has this got to do with your spade work?  I have called you out for a blatant lie you have posted about me.  Have the decency to retract it and we can move on.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 07:59:PM
I am an administrator, which includes all mod privileges.  I lead the mod team.

Your statement is a lie as I am sure Caroline will confirm.  If I had wanted to get rid of you I would have done so.  Caroline did not reinstate you and she would not have done.  I banned you once for 24 hours but lifted the ban early.  You are within a whisker of getting a new ban now.

Of course I confirm that - if we're talking about the recent ban - I have no hand in reinstating Steve.

Sorry Steve, you have this wrong. NGB is in charge not me, I couldn't reinstate without his say so.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 07:59:PM
I don't really know what to say. Mike, Lookout, Caroline, Jane and myself have contributed the most to this site. Am I supposed to grovel because my spade work has not been appreciated? I will not.
   Arrogant as well.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:01:PM
I don't really know what to say. Mike, Lookout, Caroline, Jane and myself have contributed the most to this site. Am I supposed to grovel because my spade work has not been appreciated? I will not.

No one has said you should grovel - no one expects that. I think you some things confused that's all. I'm not sure why you have such a beef with NGB - I can only think you have confused something in the past?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 08:07:PM
AHHHHHHHHHHH SHADDAP!


Absolutely 100% true though
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 09, 2020, 08:08:PM
steve I have always found you to be a nice polite guy but sorry you are out of order with NGB,  He is a fair nice gentleman who gives up his time for this forum and he deserves respect and he does earn it.  Please be fair and offer a sincere apology.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 09, 2020, 08:13:PM
Lookout gives as good as she gets and she would be the first to admit it.

How YOU dare call anyone nasty is beyond belief - I have NEVER come across anyone quite like you with your attempt to intimidate at every opportunity; those people you seem to think are an enemy. You have simply met your match with me because I think you're a joke and you don't intimidate me one bit - you just make me laugh!  ;D ;D ;D ;D - Opps! There's one of them there 'explanation' marks again! (and another  ;D ;D)


Met my match??? That was a joke ??? When you do as much behind the scenes as I do without living on a forum 24\7 I will look up to you

Unfortunately for you that’s never going to happen and no I don’t believe Janes secret policeman exists for obvious reasons
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 08:15:PM
i think its gone far enough,david should be told any more cartoon goading or goading in general will result in a ban,lets move on with the topic
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 08:15:PM
What has this got to do with your spade work?  I have called you out for a blatant lie you have posted about me.  Have the decency to retract it and we can move on.
Well if you didn't remove me I'm sorry. I thought you said you did remove me then reinstated me so where was the lie? I don't like this badgering and invective on the Forum as much as you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 08:16:PM
i think its gone far enough,david should be told any more cartoon goading or goading in general will result in a ban,lets move on with the topic
I quite agree sami.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:16:PM

Met my match??? That was a joke ??? When you do as much behind the scenes as I do without living on a forum 24\7 I will look up to you

Unfortunately for you that’s never going to happen and no I don’t believe Janes secret policeman exists for obvious reasons

Ha, ha!!!!!!!!!!! As much as you with your Twitter account? Go and wool pull some place else!

Jane's policeman is VERY real - how Warwick?  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 08:18:PM
steve I have always found you to be a nice polite guy but sorry you are out of order with NGB,  He is a fair nice gentleman who gives up his time for this forum and he deserves respect and he does earn it.  Please be fair and offer a sincere apology.
I have apologized. Can we have one simple rule though: any new members henceforth introduce themselves in the Foyer.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:20:PM
Well if you didn't remove me I'm sorry. I thought you said you did remove me then reinstated me so where was the lie? I don't like this badgering and invective on the Forum as much as you.

I think he's referring to you saying I reinstated you - I didn't. Where did you get that from? I might have done in the past if you have been banned before but it would have been with the full approval of NGB - although I can't remember you being banned before.

NGB isn't your enemy Steve - I don't understand?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 08:21:PM
I think he's referring to you saying I reinstated you - I didn't. Where did you get that from? I might have done in the past if you have been banned before but it would have been with the full approval of NGB - although I can't remember you being banned before.

NGB isn't your enemy Steve - I don't understand?
He banned me in the past, his "impartial" legal advice is always detrimental to the Prosecution, he told me I didn't know one end of a silencer from another. Now let's move on.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 08:23:PM
I have apologized. Can we have one simple rule though: any new members henceforth introduce themselves in the Foyer.
quite correct ,when i joined i couldnt post until i introduced myself in the foyer
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 09, 2020, 08:24:PM
Hi steve I think that is expected of any new member maybe a rule I am not sure sometimes I am sure it gets overlooked but I have seen Maggie often asking new members to introduce themselves.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:26:PM
quite correct ,when i joined i couldnt post until i introduced myself in the foyer

I think the confusion is that someone who seemed like a recent member (because they had not previously posted) - had actually joined several years ago. They hadn't introduced themselves when they started posting - although they have now.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 08:30:PM
I think the confusion is that someone who seemed like a recent member (because they had not previously posted) - had actually joined several years ago. They hadn't introduced themselves when they started posting - although they have now.
oh i see,caroline
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ngb1066 on January 09, 2020, 08:31:PM
Hi steve I think that is expected of any new member maybe a rule I am not sure sometimes I am sure it gets overlooked but I have seen Maggie often asking new members to introduce themselves.

That is right susan and we will try to make sure new members are reminded more quickly in future.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 08:37:PM
I have apologized. Can we have one simple rule though: any new members henceforth introduce themselves in the Foyer.
   You haven't apologised, certainly not sincerely. You don't then get to demand which rules are enforced and how vigorously. It is one thing having personal spats with other members but I am sure that every other member understands and agrees that personal attacks on the moderators are out of bounds.
    You have yourself called for other members to be banned, including myself, previously for supposed insults to you. So you believe that banning members for hurting Steve's feelings is ok, but Steve should be allowed to personally insult the mods and criticise their work(given free of charge which allows this forum to exist).
    I would still now not call for you to be banned, although it would be justified. Instead, you should reflect and apologise sincerely after realising, upon reflection, that you really ought to.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 08:39:PM
i think its gone far enough,david should be told any more cartoon goading or goading in general will result in a ban,lets move on with the topic
I have them both on ignore Sami, I held back from David, he told untruths about his rifle usage to NGB and Scipio but I never posted it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 09, 2020, 08:39:PM
   You haven't apologised, certainly not sincerely. You don't then get to demand which rules are enforced and how vigorously. It is one thing having personal spats with other members but I am sure that every other member understands and agrees that personal attacks on the moderators are out of bounds.
    You have yourself called for other members to be banned, including myself, previously for supposed insults to you. So you believe that banning members for hurting Steve's feelings is ok, but Steve should be allowed to personally insult the mods and criticise their work(given free of charge which allows this forum to exist).
    I would still now not call for you to be banned, although it would be justified. Instead, you should reflect and apologise sincerely after realising, upon reflection, that you really ought to.
Your contribution to this site is negligible.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: gringo on January 09, 2020, 08:45:PM
Your contribution to this site is negligible.
   It's enough to have rattled your cage plenty of times but is beside the point. My contributions have never included personal criticism towards the mods and their work on the forum. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 09, 2020, 08:51:PM
Jane's source worked on the case from day one - this other bloke didn't work on it at all.

Well, I'm not doubting Jane's claims on that. However, if this new ex officer is correct in his own claims, given where he's come from career-wise, it's a pretty damning endictment of EP on this case.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 08:56:PM
Well, I'm not doubting Jane's claims on that. However, if this new ex officer is correct in his own claims, given where he's come from career-wise, it's a pretty damning endictment of EP on this case.
Roch, I can understand how Jane feels, I had the privilege of talking to Bambers psychiatrist, NGB I know believes me because she is involved with something else in my life, I didn’t want to discuss names, but I was willing to share part what she said, because I came forward with this information, I just got goaded and ridiculed especially from David, I’ve learnt my lesson and I bet Jane has.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:56:PM
Well, I'm not doubting Jane's claims on that. However, if this new ex officer is correct in his own claims, given where he's come from career-wise, it's a pretty damning endictment of EP on this case.

It's just his opinion - he wasn't involved in the case and we don't know why he hold those thoughts.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 08:59:PM
Roch, I can understand how Jane feels, I had the privilege of talking to Bambers psychiatrist, NGB I know believes me because she is involved with something else in my life, I didn’t want to discuss names, but I was willing to share part what she said, because I came forward with this information, I just got goaded and ridiculed especially from David, I’ve learnt my lesson and I bet Jane has.

Why? He's the one that looks like the prize div! He's boasted about being in touch with various folk - why does he assume he is so special? Jane has lived in the area all her life. I know for a fact that she knows this person so David can swivel!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 09, 2020, 09:09:PM

Met my match??? That was a joke ??? When you do as much behind the scenes as I do without living on a forum 24\7 I will look up to you

Unfortunately for you that’s never going to happen and no I don’t believe Janes secret policeman exists for obvious reasons


Believe me or not, you vicious troll. I'm  NOT risking my friend's security by giving you the chance to stalk them. Frankly, I really don't give a toss, but the thought of you targeting innocent victims makes me sick. I'm perfectly certain that the decent posters on this forum will support my decision.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 09, 2020, 09:18:PM

Believe me or not, you vicious troll. I'm  NOT risking my friend's security by giving you the chance to stalk them. Frankly, I really don't give a toss, but the thought of you targeting innocent victims makes me sick. I'm perfectly certain that the decent posters on this forum will support my decision.
totally agree jane,theres no reason for you to name names.they can take or leave it
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 09:58:PM

Believe me or not, you vicious troll. I'm  NOT risking my friend's security by giving you the chance to stalk them. Frankly, I really don't give a toss, but the thought of you targeting innocent victims makes me sick. I'm perfectly certain that the decent posters on this forum will support my decision.

Already have Jane and I KNOW you're telling the truth!  ;)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 09, 2020, 10:00:PM

Believe me or not, you vicious troll. I'm  NOT risking my friend's security by giving you the chance to stalk them. Frankly, I really don't give a toss, but the thought of you targeting innocent victims makes me sick. I'm perfectly certain that the decent posters on this forum will support my decision.
I know your telling the truth my friend 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 09, 2020, 10:53:PM
I think the confusion is that someone who seemed like a recent member (because they had not previously posted) - had actually joined several years ago. They hadn't introduced themselves when they started posting - although they have now.

Is this in reference to me?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 10:55:PM
Is this in reference to me?

No Janet - defo not you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi)) on January 09, 2020, 11:00:PM
No Janet - defo not you.

Oh okay..thank you.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on January 10, 2020, 01:45:AM
I did try to get in touch with him yesterday as he's on Facebook . . .
Roy has his own youtube channel, so he could hardly be easier to contact.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on January 10, 2020, 01:55:AM
Nobody has a copy of my passport so I assume it was sent in by ‘a policeman’
I repeat nobody has a copy of my passport so how worrying is that?
You seem to be contradicting yourself. If nobody has a copy, what was sent in must be a forgery, and hence isn't your passport, and wouldn't have the correct passport number or issue date anyway.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Reader on January 10, 2020, 02:41:AM
My friend's husband, a retired police officer who spent his entire working life with EP. and was one of those present, said from the off, that he was guilty. One cancels out the other.
Hardly. Anyone that closely involved couldn't be expected to reveal anything useful to the defence.

By the way, I've seen the opening episode of the ITV drama, and noticed that while some things were reasonably accurate on detail, others, such as the control room at Chelmsford police station and the exterior and surrounds of WHF, were grossly inaccurate. Only two policemen seemed to have turned up at WHF initially, with no third officer remaining in the patrol car.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 03:32:AM
Roch, I can understand how Jane feels, I had the privilege of talking to Bambers psychiatrist, NGB I know believes me because she is involved with something else in my life, I didn’t want to discuss names, but I was willing to share part what she said, because I came forward with this information, I just got goaded and ridiculed especially from David, I’ve learnt my lesson and I bet Jane has.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 04:14:AM
As for my cartoons and gifs. How many guilters complained or criticised me over this one?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10006.msg456443.html#msg456443 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10006.msg456443.html#msg456443)

None! Strange that.  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 04:22:AM
As for my cartoons and gifs. How many guilters complained or criticised me over this one?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10006.msg456443.html#msg456443 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10006.msg456443.html#msg456443)

None! Strange that.  ::)

Absolute BS! You have been told time and time again about posting the RG gif!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 04:59:AM
I have them both on ignore Sami, I held back from David, he told untruths about his rifle usage to NGB and Scipio but I never posted it.

I used a Lee–Enfield when I was in the airforce cadets at age 14.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 07:48:AM
If Jane's source is to be believed, an officer who worked on the case could sense that Jeremy was lying during interviews.  This Tyzack fellow seems to be advocating almost the opposite, ie that Essex Police have been dishonest and obstructive (while claiming to have cooperated). Oh to have been a fly on the wall regarding internal arguments eh.

Jane has claimed all sorts of connections to the case. Connections that she oddly never seemed to mention while she believed Jeremy was not guilty of murders.

We are supposed to believe that Jane spent 28 years believing the guy was innocent despite being "surrounded" by local witnesses who have nothing good to say about the guy. Then only to start believing the guy is guilty because of someone 300 miles away up north?

Something doesn't seem quite right there.  ;D

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 08:52:AM
what would airforce cadets be doing firing rifles,they are only issued with a sidearm a revolverwhen they are up in the air.cant see a 14yr old firing live rounds
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 08:53:AM
what makes people change their minds you would never know
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 08:54:AM
lets see if you get banned for todays goading by cartoon
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 09:06:AM
what would airforce cadets be doing firing rifles,they are only issued with a sidearm a revolverwhen they are up in the air.cant see a 14yr old firing live rounds
True Sami, he told Scipio he had used other firearms and used them at his Grandads, yet he told NGB he had only used this one, now he says he used it at cadets? 



I've used several rifles myself belonging to my granddad all manual they are not rocket science to work out
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 09:12:AM
what would airforce cadets be doing firing rifles,they are only issued with a sidearm a revolverwhen they are up in the air.cant see a 14yr old firing live rounds

Why make us learn to use a rifle designed 100 years ago?  I found it so pointless.

For some reason you had to become good at the Lee-Enfield till they let you use SA80. I didn't stay long enough for that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 09:17:AM
It's just his opinion - he wasn't involved in the case and we don't know why he hold those thoughts.

It's not nothing. It's someone with ten years as a detective working major crimes, in the same force. If anything it's quite embarrassing for EP and for the original officers involved the prosecution.  We don't know his reasons. However, for him to be so openly critical, and to reveal he internally argued the case using reason, suggests he had sufficient awareness of case facts to warrant such actions. The fact he has referred to a stubbornness among EP to listen to reason, suggests the case is very sensitive for EP and they obviously have something to hide or lose.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 09:23:AM
It's not nothing. It's someone with ten years as a detective working major crimes, in the same force. If anything it's quite embarrassing for EP and for the original officers involved the prosecution.  We don't know his reasons. However, for him to be so openly critical, and to reveal he internally argued the case using reason, suggests he had sufficient awareness of case facts to warrant such actions. The fact he has referred to a stubbornness among EP to listen to reason, suggests the case is very sensitive for EP and they obviously have something to hide or lose.

Who is this we are talking about?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 09:39:AM
Who is this we are talking about?

A retired detective (Met & EP) has left a comment on change.Org, claiming he has had heated discussions inside EP, with regards to the Bamber case being one of the worst cases of UK injustice. Name is Tyzack.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 09:42:AM
Ha, ha!!!!!!!!!!! As much as you with your Twitter account? Go and wool pull some place else!

Jane's policeman is VERY real - how Warwick?  ;D ;D ;D ::) ::)


Talk about double standards

Jane comes up with a mystery policeman in reply to an actual policeman

Not only that she is calling me a troll which is a banning affence

I am the one that is being trolled and I have every email and proof fact

Now you are trolling by  trying to make out that Warwick Heslop does not exist
I see him at least 3 times a week
That is a fact
You are making a mockery of this whole forum
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 09:43:AM
Jane has claimed all sorts of connections to the case. Connections that she oddly never seemed to mention while she believed Jeremy was not guilty of murders.

We are supposed to believe that Jane spent 28 years believing the guy was innocent despite being "surrounded" by local witnesses who have nothing good to say about the guy. Then only to start believing the guy is guilty because of someone 300 miles away up north?

Something doesn't seem quite right there.  ;D

Exactly David excellent post
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 09:44:AM
lets see if you get banned for todays goading by cartoon

No Jane will be banned for calling me a troll
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 09:46:AM
You seem to be contradicting yourself. If nobody has a copy, what was sent in must be a forgery, and hence isn't your passport, and wouldn't have the correct passport number or issue date anyway.

Ngb says he has a copy of my passport but he won’t tell me where he got it
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 09:47:AM
Roch, I can understand how Jane feels, I had the privilege of talking to Bambers psychiatrist, NGB I know believes me because she is involved with something else in my life, I didn’t want to discuss names, but I was willing to share part what she said, because I came forward with this information, I just got goaded and ridiculed especially from David, I’ve learnt my lesson and I bet Jane has.

Yes I get where you're coming from.

It was Mark Williams Thomas who remarked to me that the case is divisive or the case divides people. There are certainly people involved with the prison service who believe him guilty. There are some prisoners who have thought he was stitched up but as a guilty person. And obviously there are some who believe his innocence.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 09:54:AM
Yes I get weher you're coming from.

It was Mark Williams Thomas who remarked to me that the case is divisive or the case divides people. There are certainly people involved with the prison service who believe him guilty. There are some prisoners who have thought he was stitched up but as a guilty person. And obviously there are some who believe his innocence.

You mention the prison service but if you remember his category was downgraded very quickly for someone who had ‘killed so many people’
Albeit it put back to original category after complaints by the relatives

What do the prison service know to downgrade Jeremy so quickly

In conversations and emails with Mark he is absolutely convinced Sheila is responsible

It’s good that he is now in regular contact with Jeremy as he was previously treated really badly by the campaign team
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 09:55:AM
A retired detective (Met & EP) has left a comment on change.Org, claiming he has had heated discussions inside EP, with regards to the Bamber case being one of the worst cases of UK injustice. Name is Tyzack.

Roy Tyzack
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 09:58:AM
You mention the prison service but if you remember his category was downgraded very quickly for someone who had ‘killed so many people’
Albeit it put back to original category after complaints by the relatives

What do the prison service know to downgrade Jeremy so quickly

In conversations and emails with Mark he is absolutely convinced Sheila is responsible

It’s good that he is now in regular contact with Jeremy as he was previously treated really badly by the campaign team

I keep meaning to contact him about whether he will ever revisit the case. From the sounds of it though, there is some kind of block on any program that could aid the defence. Shocking really. Makes you wonder what type of country we actually live in.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 09:58:AM
Yes I get where you're coming from.

It was Mark Williams Thomas who remarked to me that the case is divisive or the case divides people. There are certainly people involved with the prison service who believe him guilty. There are some prisoners who have thought he was stitched up but as a guilty person. And obviously there are some who believe his innocence.
Roch you have always been a respected poster and I do listen to you, we’ve had our arguments, but I respect you more than anything because you don’t bear grudge and move on, we’ve all been up and down and there isn’t any defining line and we all look at it different which is good for debate.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 10:09:AM
I keep meaning to contact him about whether he will ever revisit the case. From the sounds of it though, there is some kind of block on any program that could aid the defence. Shocking really. Makes you wonder what type of country we actually live in.

You need to contact him

Have you got his mobile number ?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 10:11:AM
You need to contact him

Have you got his mobile number ?

I have his number but I would have to check if I can pass it on or you could contact him through his pr company
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 10:11:AM
Roch you have always been a respected poster and I do listen to you, we’ve had our arguments, but I respect you more than anything because you don’t bear grudge and move on, we’ve all been up and down and there isn’t any defining line and we all look at it different which is good for debate.

Thanks for your positive views there RJ.  The feeling is mutual. Its difficult not to get caught up in biting on here. But whoever manages to restrain themselves deserves an award. I think Reader has been very successful at remaining calm over the years.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 10:12:AM
I have his number but I would have to check if I can pass it on or you could contact him through his pr company

I think I would just contact him via an email address. I used to have one for him.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 10:14:AM
DEFINITION OF TROLLING

Trolling is the act of creating discord by deliberately starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory comments. Trolling is saying something to deliberately get a rise from others. Those who practice the act of trolling are trolls.

This may be a perfect description of JACKIE (whatever it is she's calling herself now), in fact, the author of it MAY have had her in mind when they wrote it.

I can't be the only one here who notices that debate flows comfortably and without any nastiness UNTIL you disrupt it. There may be something in your psychology that can't bear to see harmony and causes you to create discord. Only days ago you couldn't post without calling on NGB to back you up. and intimating to the forum how close you were to him. NOW, for reasons best known to yourself, the poor man, like many more of us, is being treated to you viper-like tongue and it's venom. Not for the life of me can I believe that he has your passport -unless you've sent it to him and I wouldn't put it past you- and I fail to see why you believe yourself to be of such worth that anyone else -other than perhaps the police?- would wish to see you picture, which, if anything like the way you present yourself as being here, would make look beautiful, Shakespeare's three ladies working at their cauldron.

I feel perfectly certain that revealing almost ANY of your past posts will see you out-troll any who went before, or any who will follow.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 10:22:AM
This is becoming hilarious!!! It's now become a 'fight' between Tyzack who wasn't there, and thinks he's innocent, and 'Bloggs' who was, and saw something very different from what Mike has claimed, and thinks he's guilty. Well, folks, as of this moment, 'Bloggs' is in the lead, Jeremy is in prison. However, I'd remind you that the decision to charge him was never down to 'Bloggs', he wasn't asked -although I can see that there are those torn between denying his existence and calling him a liar- it was down to those WAY above his pay grade.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 10:44:AM
DEFINITION OF TROLLING

Trolling is the act of creating discord by deliberately starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory comments. Trolling is saying something to deliberately get a rise from others. Those who practice the act of trolling are trolls.

This may be a perfect description of JACKIE (whatever it is she's calling herself now), in fact, the author of it MAY have had her in mind when they wrote it.

I can't be the only one here who notices that debate flows comfortably and without any nastiness UNTIL you disrupt it. There may be something in your psychology that can't bear to see harmony and causes you to create discord. Only days ago you couldn't post without calling on NGB to back you up. and intimating to the forum how close you were to him. NOW, for reasons best known to yourself, the poor man, like many more of us, is being treated to you viper-like tongue and it's venom. Not for the life of me can I believe that he has your passport -unless you've sent it to him and I wouldn't put it past you- and I fail to see why you believe yourself to be of such worth that anyone else -other than perhaps the police?- would wish to see you picture, which, if anything like the way you present yourself as being here, would make look beautiful, Shakespeare's three ladies working at their cauldron.

I feel perfectly certain that revealing almost ANY of your past posts will see you out-troll any who went before, or any who will follow.

That is you looking in the mirror

I am not surprised of your hatred of me being ‘friends’ of the family

I am going to get a number of your trolling posts together and put them on the forum
And the slagging off of MWT
And saying I made up Warwick Heslop
You will have too eat your words
Plus your bad language
I will also show your posts being rude to David ILB and anyone who supports Jeremy

Let’s see the facts as written by you

We will
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 10:51:AM
That is you looking in the mirror

I am not surprised of your hatred of me being ‘friends’ of the family

I am going to get a number of your trolling posts together and put them on the forum
And the slagging off of MWT
And saying I made up Warwick Heslop
You will have too eat your words
Plus your bad language
I will also show your posts being rude to David ILB and anyone who supports Jeremy

Let’s see the facts as written by you

We will
you and david are the trolls.all your and his posts today have been trolling ones,you only come on here to slag off members who thing jb is guilty.so what if your friends with jb,who would want a convicted mass murderer as a friends,people like you ,so very sad
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 10:53:AM
DEFINITION OF TROLLING

Trolling is the act of creating discord by deliberately starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory comments. Trolling is saying something to deliberately get a rise from others. Those who practice the act of trolling are trolls.

This may be a perfect description of JACKIE (whatever it is she's calling herself now), in fact, the author of it MAY have had her in mind when they wrote it.

I can't be the only one here who notices that debate flows comfortably and without any nastiness UNTIL you disrupt it. There may be something in your psychology that can't bear to see harmony and causes you to create discord. Only days ago you couldn't post without calling on NGB to back you up. and intimating to the forum how close you were to him. NOW, for reasons best known to yourself, the poor man, like many more of us, is being treated to you viper-like tongue and it's venom. Not for the life of me can I believe that he has your passport -unless you've sent it to him and I wouldn't put it past you- and I fail to see why you believe yourself to be of such worth that anyone else -other than perhaps the police?- would wish to see you picture, which, if anything like the way you present yourself as being here, would make look beautiful, Shakespeare's three ladies working at their cauldron.

I feel perfectly certain that revealing almost ANY of your past posts will see you out-troll any who went before, or any who will follow.
excellent post jane,quite true
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 11:08:AM
Where have I said I am friends with JB

Fact Sami

Date and time or I will take it you are trolling and just trying to cause trouble again

And yes my blood pressure is fine
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 11:45:AM
That is you looking in the mirror

I am not surprised of your hatred of me being ‘friends’ of the family

I am going to get a number of your trolling posts together and put them on the forum
And the slagging off of MWT
And saying I made up Warwick Heslop
You will have too eat your words
Plus your bad language
I will also show your posts being rude to David ILB and anyone who supports Jeremy

Let’s see the facts as written by you

We will


Is your psychiatrist pleased with your improvement or has given up?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 12:01:PM

Is your psychiatrist pleased with your improvement or has given up?


Trolling
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 12:04:PM

Trolling


Reflecting the traits you're exhibiting.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 12:26:PM
The only important person at this time is Jeremy and proving he is innocent.  He has made promises to me and I believe in him however much people would like to think we have fallen out or I don't do things which are in Jeremys interest.
If anyone is in any doubt of our friendship please feel free to write or email Jeremy today.  I have never let him down and I never will
Jackiepreece. September 15, 2011, 11:15:AM »
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 12:27:PM
The only important person at this time is Jeremy and proving he is innocent.  He has made promises to me and I believe in him however much people would like to think we have fallen out or I don't do things which are in Jeremys interest.
If anyone is in any doubt of our friendship please feel free to write or email Jeremy today.  I have never let him down and I never will
Jackiepreece. September 15, 2011, 11:15:AM »
So Sami isn’t trolling!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 10, 2020, 12:31:PM
Well this is embarrassing. This stupid argument has been going on for pages now. There might be people reading who are actually interested in the case, but all they see is this nonsense.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 12:36:PM
The only important person at this time is Jeremy and proving he is innocent.  He has made promises to me and I believe in him however much people would like to think we have fallen out or I don't do things which are in Jeremys interest.
If anyone is in any doubt of our friendship please feel free to write or email Jeremy today.  I have never let him down and I never will
Jackiepreece. September 15, 2011, 11:15:AM »


RJ, thank-you. I understand, from a variety of those who have contacted Jeremy, that he's very practiced at avoiding those questions he'd rather not answer, and dumping those he has no further use for. From where he is, it's easy to make promises. There are many ways in which we can let each other down if our needs cease to gel.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 12:57:PM
well it wasnt started by anyone who thinks jb is guilty,jackie has come on this morning not to discuss topics but to slag people off for last nights posts,even though ive said lots of time ,lets move on she refuses to
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:00:PM
Jane has claimed all sorts of connections to the case. Connections that she oddly never seemed to mention while she believed Jeremy was not guilty of murders.

We are supposed to believe that Jane spent 28 years believing the guy was innocent despite being "surrounded" by local witnesses who have nothing good to say about the guy. Then only to start believing the guy is guilty because of someone 300 miles away up north?

Something doesn't seem quite right there.  ;D

You think repeating you be will make it true but the fact is, all it serves is to fuel the likes of the crazy element of which you now belong. You used to be a good poster David, now you’re just an immature idiot. No matter what rubbish you keep posting, you won’t alter the FACT that Jane knows someone who was involved in the case from day one and no one cares whether you believe it or not - you’re not relevant.

Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:08:PM
You think repeating you be will make it true but the fact is, all it serves is to fuel the likes of the crazy element of which you now belong. You used to be a good poster David, now you’re just an immature idiot. No matter what rubbish you keep posting, you won’t alter the FACT that Jane knows someone who was involved in the case from day one and no one cares whether you believe it or not - you’re not relevant.


It seems he and Jackie have joined forces with one aim in mind. Provocation for their own amusement, otherwise known as trolling. They're both wasting their time.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 01:13:PM

It seems he and Jackie have joined forces with one aim in mind. Provocation for their own amusement, otherwise known as trolling. They're both wasting their time.
just childish jane,spoils the excellent discussions both sides have on the topics
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:16:PM

It seems he and Jackie have joined forces with one aim in mind. Provocation for their own amusement, otherwise known as trolling. They're both wasting their time.

They deserve each other.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 10, 2020, 01:17:PM
I've said it before, but the tag-teaming between three or four people is what's causing the disruption.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 01:18:PM
You think repeating you be will make it true but the fact is, all it serves is to fuel the likes of the crazy element of which you now belong. You used to be a good poster David, now you’re just an immature idiot. No matter what rubbish you keep posting, you won’t alter the FACT that Jane knows someone who was involved in the case from day one and no one cares whether you believe it or not - you’re not relevant.

Geez.. take it easy on the projection.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:21:PM
I've said it before, but the tag-teaming between three or four people is what's causing the disruption.


So are you advocating those who think he's guilty sit back and allow themselves to be continuously ridiculed and attacked?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 10, 2020, 01:22:PM

So are you advocating those who think he's guilty sit back and allow themselves to be continuously ridiculed and attacked?

There's no need for all the other "guilters" to join in and slag someone off to each other.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 01:24:PM
team tagging is going on because the trolls dont learn their lesson,try and be polite when answering each others posts .if you cant than expect other decent members to pull you up on your remarks,i dont follow anyone but will reply to any insult or goading done to a fellow member.thats the way i am,also makes goaders think twice before posting
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:24:PM
There's no need for all the other "guilters" to join in and slag someone off to each other.


Oh! Right! So the one -the anti-Bamber- who's being attacked has to sit back and accept it?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:25:PM
There's no need for all the other "guilters" to join in and slag someone off to each other.





Agreed Kaldin, others should butt out when an argument/discussion is between just 2 people.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:27:PM
It solves nothing and only creates hostilities. Like Trump interfering in Iran !
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:28:PM
There's no need for all the other "guilters" to join in and slag someone off to each other.


Sorry - I don’t see you criticisms of Jackie when she joins in - depends what side you’re on to what you find acceptable doesn’t it Kaldin? ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:28:PM




Agreed Kaldin, others should butt out when an argument/discussion is between just 2 people.


Lookout, are you saying it's FINE for two supporters to provoke one detractor, but no other detractors should lend their voice to it?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 01:29:PM
So Sami isn’t trolling!


2011 and anyone is quite welcome to write to him and ask about me
I am sure he will give a polite answer
I will always continue to support him
We have spoken many times on the phone and by letter but I have never asked to meet him

How funny RJ (friend of the relatives) that you have to go back to 2011 to bring up a post about Jeremy and I And yet I get attacked for bringing up the old ridiculous posts of Caroline attacking people when she thought he was guilty

Your posts continue not to be impartial and a joke

I will help you out and drag out a few posts from Caroline this afternoon
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 01:31:PM

RJ, thank-you. I understand, from a variety of those who have contacted Jeremy, that he's very practiced at avoiding those questions he'd rather not answer, and dumping those he has no further use for. From where he is, it's easy to make promises. There are many ways in which we can let each other down if our needs cease to gel.

He has never dodged a single question from me and these questions have been taken off this forum Fact
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:31:PM
Geez.. take it easy on the projection.

Look - David learned a new word from Steph and has done it to death ever since. You’re like a sponge soaking up the ideas of others and passing them off as your own. Do tell us again when you became knowledgeable about the case - aww sorry. I forgot, that depends on who your talking to.  ::)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 01:32:PM
You think repeating you be will make it true but the fact is, all it serves is to fuel the likes of the crazy element of which you now belong. You used to be a good poster David, now you’re just an immature idiot. No matter what rubbish you keep posting, you won’t alter the FACT that Jane knows someone who was involved in the case from day one and no one cares whether you believe it or not - you’re not relevant.

Course she does
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:33:PM

2011 and anyone is quite welcome to write to him and ask about me
I am sure he will give a polite answer
I will always continue to support him
We have spoken many times on the phone and by letter but I have never asked to meet him

How funny RJ (friend of the relatives) that you have to go back to 2011 to bring up a post about Jeremy and I And yet I get attacked for bringing up the old ridiculous posts of Caroline attacking people when she thought he was guilty

Your posts continue not to be impartial and a joke

I will help you out and drag out a few posts from Caroline this afternoon


I'll put money on your's being of way more interest. People in glass houses?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 01:33:PM
I've said it before, but the tag-teaming between three or four people is what's causing the disruption.

Thank you Kaldin it’s a gang
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:34:PM

Lookout, are you saying it's FINE for two supporters to provoke one detractor, but no other detractors should lend their voice to it?





Look, I don't know what's gone on and don't much care either but the damn forum is becoming a battleground where you can't even post now without being in the crossfire of some argument or other.

Just walk away for God's sake and don't join in !!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:34:PM

2011 and anyone is quite welcome to write to him and ask about me
I am sure he will give a polite answer
I will always continue to support him
We have spoken many times on the phone and by letter but I have never asked to meet him

How funny RJ (friend of the relatives) that you have to go back to 2011 to bring up a post about Jeremy and I And yet I get attacked for bringing up the old ridiculous posts of Caroline attacking people when she thought he was guilty

Your posts continue not to be impartial and a joke

I will help you out and drag out a few posts from Caroline this afternoon

Anything to say about this Kaldin?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:35:PM
Course she does


'Course I do.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:36:PM




Look, I don't know what's gone on and don't much care either but the damn forum is becoming a battleground where you can't even post now without being in the crossfire of some argument or other.

Just walk away for God's sake and don't join in !!

Jane wasn’t even online when those two idiots decided to slag her off.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Kaldin on January 10, 2020, 01:36:PM
team tagging is going on because the trolls dont learn their lesson,try and be polite when answering each others posts .if you cant than expect other decent members to pull you up on your remarks,i dont follow anyone but will reply to any insult or goading done to a fellow member.thats the way i am,also makes goaders think twice before posting

You're not replying to goading half the time though, you're slating the "goader" to your mates. Three or four of you do it a lot - can't you see that?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:37:PM
Thank you Kaldin it’s a gang

And you’re an immature old troll.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: JackieD on January 10, 2020, 01:38:PM
Anything to say about this Kaldin?


RJ started in, I have made my position clear many times on Jeremy and now I am being attacked for being his ‘friend’
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 01:39:PM
your a fine one to talk ,youre quiet as a mouse when the other side dish it out,
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:39:PM




Look, I don't know what's gone on and don't much care either but the damn forum is becoming a battleground where you can't even post now without being in the crossfire of some argument or other.

Just walk away for God's sake and don't join in !!


 And they'll STILL carry on doing it. That's what trolls do. Perhaps they'll listen to you, Lookout, as you're all supporters.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 01:40:PM

RJ started in, I have made my position clear many times on Jeremy and now I am being attacked for being his ‘friend’
rrrrr you poor thing is the boot on the other foot
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:40:PM
Jane wasn’t even online when those two idiots decided to slag her off.





Any need for you to answer my post ??  ::)   Like I said, I don't know what's gone on and I don't care either. I obviously wasn't posting when whatever it was had kicked off. I refuse to be drawn into something that doesn't concern me.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 10, 2020, 01:42:PM
It solves nothing and only creates hostilities. Like Trump interfering in Iran !


(https://giant.gfycat.com/HelplessBaggyAmericanbittern.gif)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:43:PM
I was more interested in reading about all the discrepancies ( some of which I noticed ) in the programme.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 10, 2020, 01:45:PM

RJ started in, I have made my position clear many times on Jeremy and now I am being attacked for being his ‘friend’


That's your perpetual "get out of jail free" card, isn't it? Your opener for beginning your attack is always  that you're being attacked, OR that someone has said something -actually, they haven't but you don't let that stop you- it just gives you free rein to spit lies and venom. It's unhinged behaviour.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 01:47:PM
Walk away  ::) Or do what I'm doing-----ordering Scott Lomax's latest book, a paperback @ £14.99.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 01:55:PM
Walk away  ::) Or do what I'm doing-----ordering Scott Lomax's latest book, a paperback @ £14.99.
excellent choice lookout,ive not read it but others have said its good
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:56:PM

RJ started in, I have made my position clear many times on Jeremy and now I am being attacked for being his ‘friend’

So you just thought you would drag me into it? No one cares about your passed friendship - I know I certainly don’t!
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 01:58:PM
Walk away  ::) Or do what I'm doing-----ordering Scott Lomax's latest book, a paperback @ £14.99.

What’s it about?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 02:06:PM
What’s it about?
i think its what the title is,walk away,help with self control book , i think
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 10, 2020, 02:10:PM
Hello lookout I got Colin's book yesterday not started reading it yet as I am half way thru a Barbara Erskine book must finish that first. Did not know SL had a new book out.  Just ordered it I will be reading non stop now Lol
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 02:18:PM
i think its what the title is,walk away,help with self control book , i think

Ok ta!  :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 02:20:PM
What’s it about?






It appears to be more up to date as a follow-up from his original book since more information became available. I gather he's in touch with the legal side of the CT team by his remark--- quote," Every aspect of the prosecution's case can be dismantled "unquote.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 02:21:PM
It appears to be more up to date as a follow-up from his original book since more information became available. I gather he's in touch with the legal side of the CT team by his remark--- quote," Every aspect of the prosecution's case can be dismantled "unquote.

OK - cheers Lookout.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 10, 2020, 02:23:PM
Hi sami
glad to hear that as I have bought quite a few Bamber murder case  books and could not get interested in any of them.  Books ended up at the Charity shop probably still there as this case is not that well known in these parts x
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 03:04:PM
I should have been cheeky and asked him if this one is signed like his other book was.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Roch on January 10, 2020, 03:56:PM





It appears to be more up to date as a follow-up from his original book since more information became available. I gather he's in touch with the legal side of the CT team by his remark--- quote," Every aspect of the prosecution's case can be dismantled "unquote.

Can anyone provide a link? I can't find it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 04:06:PM
Can anyone provide a link? I can't find it.





His book is on Amazon, Roch.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 10, 2020, 04:27:PM




His book is on Amazon, Roch.

Lookout, it doesn't say it's an updated version?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 10, 2020, 04:39:PM
Hi lookout Caroline says it is not an updated version  :) Thank you Caroline.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 05:16:PM
I'll judge for myself when it arrives Susan, too late to cancel it.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 05:43:PM
I'll judge for myself when it arrives Susan, too late to cancel it.
its never too late ,lookout :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 06:44:PM
I'll judge for myself when it arrives Susan, too late to cancel it.
If it’s not up to standard Lookout, let me know I will take it round to his house and return it for you 👍
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 07:32:PM
If it’s not up to standard Lookout, let me know I will take it round to his house and return it for you 👍






He's in Derbyshire I think ? Book will be with me on Wednesday-----I'm renowned for throwing my money away  :o
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 10, 2020, 07:36:PM





He's in Derbyshire I think ? Book will be with me on Wednesday-----I'm renowned for throwing my money away  :o
i hope you havnt wasted any by sending it to jb
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 07:37:PM





He's in Derbyshire I think ? Book will be with me on Wednesday-----I'm renowned for throwing my money away  :o
He lives, as the crow fly’s about 2 or 2.5 miles from me Lookout, unless he’s moved recently.  He studied at Sheffield.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 10, 2020, 07:45:PM
He lives, as the crow fly’s about 2 or 2.5 miles from me Lookout, unless he’s moved recently.  He studied at Sheffield.





My late pa-in-law's family came from Sheffield.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: susan on January 10, 2020, 07:53:PM
Lookout don't worry you can send it back and get a full refund x
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 10, 2020, 07:59:PM




My late pa-in-law's family came from Sheffield.
Very nice Lookout, I’m about 10 mile from Sheffield, Meadowhall is nice for shopping and we’re right on the edge of the Peak District.  Scott Lomax wrote a book on unsolved murders in Derbyshire, I wanted to read it so I might get it, I’m interested in one case he writes about, Barbara Mayo, some have linked her killing to the Bakewell killing Wendy Sewell ( Stephen Downing) but Scott Lomax doesn’t believe they are linked.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 11, 2020, 08:17:PM
Jackie, these people are all petty. They just cannot take another opinion that differs to their own. Not one person has managed to overcome me in any shape or form since I've been posting on here. They can't offer sensible reply. They have to go down the route of personal insults. Rise above these lonely people
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 11, 2020, 08:32:PM
 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 11, 2020, 08:33:PM
:)) :)) :))
you can laugh rule 43, but it's true pal
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 11, 2020, 08:35:PM
 :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Steve_uk on January 11, 2020, 08:37:PM
Jackie, these people are all petty. They just cannot take another opinion that differs to their own. Not one person has managed to overcome me in any shape or form since I've been posting on here. They can't offer sensible reply. They have to go down the route of personal insults. Rise above these lonely people
Your conceit knows no bounds. You have offered NOTHING in your posts of evidential value during your brief time on this site.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Real justice on January 11, 2020, 08:41:PM
Your conceit knows no bounds. You have offered NOTHING in your posts of evidential value during your brief time on this site.
It just shows, there has been no arguing and up pops someone from the innocent camp and tries to wind Sami up, well done Sami for  not retaliation
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 11, 2020, 08:54:PM
It just shows, there has been no arguing and up pops someone from the innocent camp and tries to wind Sami up, well done Sami for  not retaliation
thanks rj :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 11, 2020, 09:11:PM
It just shows, there has been no arguing and up pops someone from the innocent camp and tries to wind Sami up, well done Sami for  not retaliation

Not surprised.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 11, 2020, 09:25:PM
lets pray jackie does not see it ,cause if she does it will kick off again :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 11, 2020, 10:41:PM
Your conceit knows no bounds. You have offered NOTHING in your posts of evidential value during your brief time on this site.
you have offered nothing to contradict me steph
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 11, 2020, 10:43:PM
Your conceit knows no bounds. You have offered NOTHING in your posts of evidential value during your brief time on this site.
what's the evidence against Bamber steph? What do I need to contradict?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 11, 2020, 10:48:PM
hes pissed as usual,cant even pronounce the name right :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: David1819 on January 11, 2020, 11:29:PM
what's the evidence against Bamber steph? What do I need to contradict?

Gossip in Pizza Hut and rumours from the Frog and Beans.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: ilovebooze on January 12, 2020, 09:05:PM
hes pissed as usual,cant even pronounce the name right :)) :)) :))
completely wrong.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 12, 2020, 09:13:PM
oh shit hes woke up
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on January 15, 2020, 10:02:PM
oh well from the drama I don't like Jeremy or anne, both cocky little shits imo
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2020, 10:04:PM
oh well from the drama I don't like Jeremy or anne, both cocky little shits imo


Deffo don't like little Jones. Evil little shit.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 15, 2020, 10:10:PM
A pity the second episode cut short Stan Jones upstairs at WHF. Trying to work out how Sheila could have done it. 

Surely Taff was not as bad as being made out. However EP should have tried to do a detailed reconstruction of how Sheila committed the massacre. Based on the crime scene evidence. They would have realised Sheila could not have done it. 

They should have also checked the windows in more detail.  To see if any could be secured from outside. Which would not be unusual. 

Nevill calling Jeremy is also totally daft. 
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 10:13:PM

Deffo don't like little Jones. Evil little shit.
:)) :)) :))bet the other one was like that in real life.god bless him .musnt talk badly of the dead
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:13:PM
I don't much care for the slimy Stan either. See how he's getting AE on-side ? Right up his street.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 10:15:PM
I don't much care for the slimy Stan either. See how he's getting AE on-side ? Right up his street.
its the whisky lookout :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: notsure on January 15, 2020, 10:15:PM
I bet those that are watching it are all screaming at the tv 'it wasn't like that and I didn't say that; lol
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:18:PM
its the whisky lookout :)





See his lack of respect/manners in the mortuary ? He was about to light a cigarette. Sheesh.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2020, 10:18:PM
I don't much care for the slimy Stan either. See how he's getting AE on-side ? Right up his street.


He puts it across as a decent, thoughtful guy who looks beyond the obvious and didn't treat people like he knew best. Yeh. I can see why you wouldn't like him
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2020, 10:21:PM




See his lack of respect/manners in the mortuary ? He was about to light a cigarette. Sheesh.
 


There wasn't a universal smoking ban back then.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:36:PM
 


There wasn't a universal smoking ban back then.





There is in a mortuary because of chemicals.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 10:39:PM




There is in a mortuary because of chemicals.
iam sure he can be forgiven considering the situation.i know i would faint not long after the first incision :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2020, 10:40:PM




There is in a mortuary because of chemicals.

In which case he'd either never previously been in one or other pathologists never insisted.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:43:PM
In which case he'd either never previously been in one or other pathologists never insisted.






His own common sense should have told him.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 10:44:PM





His own common sense should have told him.
yes but that was tainted by the whisky :)
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2020, 10:45:PM





His own common sense should have told him.

Why? It may have been something he'd always done.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:47:PM
yes but that was tainted by the whisky :)






Yes, an addled brain.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: lookout on January 15, 2020, 10:48:PM
Nothing should cloud the judgement in a job like that.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 10:50:PM
Nothing should cloud the judgement in a job like that.
especially a round of golf
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 15, 2020, 11:06:PM
Any comments on the wounds they portrayed on nevilles arms saying done with rifle butt ? They were gouges and there would have been blood and skin and flesh on the rifle , but there wasn’t ?

Also the burns ? They seemed to think they had been done at the time of the crime ? Not sure that was established ?

Bad portrayal of the window situation I think . Not what Barlow said when he went to test it. And it never would have come up in appeal if that was that simple.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: sami on January 15, 2020, 11:13:PM
Any comments on the wounds they portrayed on nevilles arms saying done with rifle butt ? They were gouges and there would have been blood and skin and flesh on the rifle , but there wasn’t ?

Also the burns ? They seemed to think they had been done at the time of the crime ? Not sure that was established ?

Bad portrayal of the window situation I think . Not what Barlow said when he went to test it. And it never would have come up in appeal if that was that simple.
i think it was shown that the marks were not fresh cause they showed signs of the healing process
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 16, 2020, 12:17:AM
Any comments on the wounds they portrayed on nevilles arms saying done with rifle butt ? They were gouges and there would have been blood and skin and flesh on the rifle , but there wasn’t ?

Also the burns ? They seemed to think they had been done at the time of the crime ? Not sure that was established ?

Bad portrayal of the window situation I think . Not what Barlow said when he went to test it. And it never would have come up in appeal if that was that simple.


42.

The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head.

Linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Jan on January 16, 2020, 12:44:AM

42.

The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head.

Linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

Did you watch the programme?
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Caroline on January 16, 2020, 03:31:AM
Any comments on the wounds they portrayed on nevilles arms saying done with rifle butt ? They were gouges and there would have been blood and skin and flesh on the rifle , but there wasn’t ?

Also the burns ? They seemed to think they had been done at the time of the crime ? Not sure that was established ?

Bad portrayal of the window situation I think . Not what Barlow said when he went to test it. And it never would have come up in appeal if that was that simple.

That is how Venezis described the wounds.

As for the window, once again, you need to remember that it's a drama - it actually states that some scenes have been created.
Title: Re: The ITV Drama
Post by: Adam on January 16, 2020, 07:09:AM
AE & SJ mentioned Nevill's phone call.

Saw old news footage which says Nevill Bamber phoned his son. Would have thought most