Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:45:PM

Title: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:45:PM
The bed in the main bedroom only appears to show that June Bamber had been laying in bed, possibly sleeping when her attacker shot at her, and eventually killed her! No such evidence exists to remotely suggest that Neville Bamber had been in bed with June at the time she was attacked..

Neville Bamber was almost certainly not even present inside the farmhouse, or failing that he was elsewhere in the living room, or the upstairs office dozing after a hard day's graft on the farm, which were known to be favoured by him rather than go to bed and risk disturbing his wife June in bed..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 05, 2018, 07:11:PM
The bed in the main bedroom only appears to show that June Bamber had been laying in bed, possibly sleeping when her attacker shot at her, and eventually killed her! No such evidence exists to remotely suggest that Neville Bamber had been in bed with June at the time she was attacked..

Neville Bamber was almost certainly not even present inside the farmhouse, or failing that he was elsewhere in the living room, or the upstairs office dozing after a hard day's graft on the farm, which were known to be favoured by him rather than go to bed and risk disturbing his wife June in bed..
I wonder if Nevill had a shower in the downstairs shower room and whether the towel found in the kitchen could have been one he used to dry himself? It might help if we had photographs of the lounge.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 06, 2018, 10:54:AM
I wonder if Nevill had a shower in the downstairs shower room and whether the towel found in the kitchen could have been one he used to dry himself? It might help if we had photographs of the lounge.

It would help of course if we had photographs of other rooms in the farmhouse, including as you say the lounge, such as the upstairs office where the other digital telephone was plugged in, the upstairs bathroom, the children's bedroom, the downstairs toilet where Anthony Pargeter kept his collection of guns, including his .22 bolt action rifle, and a variety of ammunition, the spiral staircase in the corner of the kitchen giving a clear view of the latched door at the top landing, the main entrance hallway and the front stairs, the back staircase, the storeroom which police had to break open because it was locked on the inside with the key still in its lock, and there being a lift cover in the ceiling of that storeroom through which whoever had locked the storeroom door from the inside, must have climbed through and replaced the lift cover before exiting into the roof via a skylark window, and dropped to the ground, thus completing their escape or exit..

The towel used in the kitchen to help control the spread of Neville Bambers blood on the kitchen floor could have been used by both Neville and Sheila at different times during the early hours of the morning, or used just by Neville alone. The fact that his cotton trousers were also used in this containment of his blood exercise, perhaps this gives a proper invite into the whereabouts of Neville until shortly after 3am...

For me, the other three victims (June, Daniel and Nicholas) we're already dead before Neville Bamber returned to the farmhouse from going to the fields with his tractor to collect the last trailor load of rape seed of tgecdays work! Whoever shot and killed Neville Bamber downstairs in the kitchen, only had him to deal with, the can"t have been any other distraction concerning any of the others being alive..

I can't believe that the shooter went into the main bedroom expecting to be able to kill off two adult victims with one magazine load of .22 bullets, and the shooter firing the vast majority of bullets at June Bamber (7), without Neville (if he had been present) placing himself in the firing line to try and protect his wife! I mean, we know that June had 5 non fatal wounds, and that the other two bullets were fatal shots, but it appears that in between the non fatal shots and the fatal shots, that June wandered around the bed, and then somehow (eventually) ended up by the bedroom door in the vicinity of the top landing and main stairs! I just don't see Neville Bamber running off from the bedroom whilst June is being shot at, this doesn't make any sense..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 09, 2018, 12:31:AM
I can't believe that the shooter went into the main bedroom expecting to be able to kill off two adult victims with one magazine load of .22 bullets, and the shooter firing the vast majority of bullets at June Bamber (7), without Neville (if he had been present) placing himself in the firing line to try and protect his wife! I mean, we know that June had 5 non fatal wounds, and that the other two bullets were fatal shots, but it appears that in between the non fatal shots and the fatal shots, that June wandered around the bed, and then somehow (eventually) ended up by the bedroom door in the vicinity of the top landing and main stairs! I just don't see Neville Bamber running off from the bedroom whilst June is being shot at, this doesn't make any sense..


I believe the events transpired as follows.

1: Nevill calls Jeremy for help from the downstairs kitchen.
2: Sheila enters the main bedroom and begins fireing the five non fatal shots at June Bamber.
3: Nevill abruptly ends the conversation on the phone and runs upstairs.
4: After fireing five shots into June. Sheila realises Nevile is on his way up.
5: Sheila then pivots herself to aim the gun towards the stairs.
6: June then gets out of bed to try and escape into the box room.
7: Sheila then fires the last four shots in the magazine at Nevill.
8: Nevill now injured retreats back to the kitchen and Sheila goes after him.
9: June is now on the other end of the bedroom a few feet from the box room.
10: With Sheila's attention turned to Nevill. June decides to go after her to try and help Nevill.
11: June collapses in shock and dies when she gets to the hallway door.


IIRC Jeremy states he left the magazine "Almost full" This tallies up with the nine shots described above.
All nine shots have effectively neutralized both adults and there is now nothing to stop Sheila from reloading, inflicting more overkill shots and of course shooting the twins.

The above senario fits all the physical evidence thus gives me yet another reason (among many others) for why I dont believe Nevile called the police. There is simply no realistic way to have Nevill making two urgent calls 10 minutes apart.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Caroline on November 09, 2018, 01:16:AM

I believe the events transpired as follows.

1: Nevill calls Jeremy for help from the downstairs kitchen.
2: Sheila enters the main bedroom and begins fireing the five non fatal shots at June Bamber.
3: Nevill abruptly ends the conversation on the phone and runs upstairs.
4: After fireing five shots into June. Sheila realises Nevile is on his way up.
5: Sheila then pivots herself to aim the gun towards the stairs.
6: June then gets out of bed to try and escape into the box room.
7: Sheila then fires the last four shots in the magazine at Nevill.
8: Nevill now injured retreats back to the kitchen and Sheila goes after him.
9: June is now on the other end of the bedroom a few feet from the box room.
10: With Sheila's attention turned to Nevill. June decides to go after her to try and help Nevill.
11: June collapses in shock and dies when she gets to the hallway door.


IIRC Jeremy states he left the magazine "Almost full" This tallies up with the nine shots described above.
All nine shots have effectively neutralized both adults and there is now nothing to stop Sheila from reloading, inflicting more overkill shots and of course shooting the twins.

The above senario fits all the physical evidence thus gives me yet another reason (among many others) for why I dont believe Nevile called the police. There is simply no realistic way to have Nevill making two urgent calls 10 minutes apart.

So Nevill hears the commotion from downstairs and yet the twins don't even wake? How did she get the gun passed Nevill? Rather than stop her, he lets her walk upstairs while he calls Jeremy?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 05:31:AM
There is simply no realistic way to have Nevill making two urgent calls 10 minutes apart.

Neville didn't make two urgent calls 10 minutes a part, since, as soon as he alerted Jeremy, he quickly got a dialling tone (at 3.26am) and contacted the police. We are talking a matter of seconds between the end of his call to Jeremy, and the beginning of his call to the police. The claim that Neville Bamber never made a call to the police is ill founded, because the contents of the Bonnet log (3.26am) do not correspond with what Jeremy Spoke to PC West about later on. In point of fact the contents of West's 3.36am phone log don't correspond with what Jeremy Bamber had spoken to PC West about, both phone logs are inaccurate and this can be proven by reference to one of PC West's witness statements in which West provides chapter and verse in relation to what Jeremy told him..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 05:56:AM
Neville didn't make two urgent calls 10 minutes a part, since, as soon as he alerted Jeremy, he quickly got a dialling tone (at 3.26am) and contacted the police. We are talking a matter of seconds between the end of his call to Jeremy, and the beginning of his call to the police. The claim that Neville Bamber never made a call to the police is ill founded, because the contents of the Bonnet log (3.26am) do not correspond with what Jeremy Spoke to PC West about later on. In point of fact the contents of West's 3.36am phone log don't correspond with what Jeremy Bamber had spoken to PC West about, both phone logs are inaccurate and this can be proven by reference to one of PC West's witness statements in which West provides chapter and verse in relation to what Jeremy told him..

If the contents of PC West's witness statement are true regarding what Jeremy Bamber told him during his call to the police at 3.36am, yet to be fathomed out is why PC West recorded a different narrative in his 3.36am phone log, which in turn got recorded differently in the Bonnet version of 'the' call?

Seems to me to be a clear case, not of Bonnet (3.26am) paraphrasing what PC West (3.36am) told him Jeremy Bamber had said, but rather it being a case of PC West (3.36am)paraphrasing what Bonnett had recorded as a result of what Neville Bamber had told him, in his 3.26am phone log. The cops then tried to make out that there had only been one call to the police and that was by Jeremy Bamber, and that the reason why the times of these call logs were 10 minutes a part, was because the control room clock was either 10 minutes fast, or 10 minutes slow?

The bottom line, however, is that PC West did not record verbatim what Jeremy had told him, when he made out his 3.36am phone call to him in his log, and therefore the argument that both phone logs represented only one call doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny! The whole situation becomes somewhat farcical, because if PC West received the call from Jeremy, and he then relayed what Jeremy had told him to Malcolm Bonnett, to be pondered is which version of the events did PC West speak to Malcolm Bonnett about? The contents as recorded by him in his 3.36am log, or to what Jeremy had actually talked to him about? And of course, the Bonnet log is timed some 10 minutes sooner (3.26am), than the time recorded in PC West's phone log (3.36am)...

If there was only one call to police, we have three different versions of what Jeremy was supposed to have said, since, we have (1) the Bonnet log timed at 3.26am, (2) the West log timed at 3.36am, and (3) we have the contents of PC West's witness statement in which he records exactly and precisely what Jeremy had told him!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 06:02:AM
Neville Bamber did make the 3.26am call to the police, there can be no other explanation for it, which was why when Jeremy attempted to call his father back, he was met by a constant engaged tone - he kept getting the engaged tone because Neville Bamber was by that stage taking part in a conversation regarding the fact, ' Daughter gone berserk ' and 'my daughter has got hold of one of my guns'...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 09, 2018, 06:10:AM

I believe the events transpired as follows.

1: Nevill calls Jeremy for help from the downstairs kitchen.
2: Sheila enters the main bedroom and begins fireing the five non fatal shots at June Bamber.
3: Nevill abruptly ends the conversation on the phone and runs upstairs.
4: After fireing five shots into June. Sheila realises Nevile is on his way up.
5: Sheila then pivots herself to aim the gun towards the stairs.
6: June then gets out of bed to try and escape into the box room.
7: Sheila then fires the last four shots in the magazine at Nevill.
8: Nevill now injured retreats back to the kitchen and Sheila goes after him.
9: June is now on the other end of the bedroom a few feet from the box room.
10: With Sheila's attention turned to Nevill. June decides to go after her to try and help Nevill.
11: June collapses in shock and dies when she gets to the hallway door.


IIRC Jeremy states he left the magazine "Almost full" This tallies up with the nine shots described above.
All nine shots have effectively neutralized both adults and there is now nothing to stop Sheila from reloading, inflicting more overkill shots and of course shooting the twins.

The above senario fits all the physical evidence thus gives me yet another reason (among many others) for why I dont believe Nevile called the police. There is simply no realistic way to have Nevill making two urgent calls 10 minutes apart.

So now Nevill didn't call the police after Sheila started shooting the twins.

Nevill calls Jeremy, lol. Bamber was lucky the judge was kind enough to just call this phone call 'mysterious'.

Going by what Nevill said on the phone, he was aware Sheila had the rifle & was aware Sheila had 'gone crazy'. So he must have noticed her go upstairs with it. Would have been better to follow her.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 06:11:AM
Neville Bamber did make the 3.26am call to the police, there can be no other explanation for it, which was why when Jeremy attempted to call his father back, he was met by a constant engaged tone - he kept getting the engaged tone because Neville Bamber was by that stage taking part in a conversation regarding the fact, ' Daughter gone berserk ' and 'my daughter has got hold of one of my guns'...
Why would PC West wrongly record what Jeremy Bamber had told him only moments before in his 3.36am log? And then Malcolm Bonnett record in his 3.26am phone log, something totally different to what Jeremy had actually spoken to PC West about (outlined in his witness statement), and or, the different version recorded by PC West in his 3.36am phone log?

It's much more likely that PC West and Malcolm Bonnet have been party to trying to marry up the two different phone logs (3.26am / 3.36am) as though both referred to the same call made by Jeremy to PC West, when the truth of the matter is that the Bonnet log (3.26am) refers to Neville Bambers call to police, as opposed to the 3.36am phone log which doesn't relate to Jeremy's call to PC West!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 09, 2018, 06:16:AM
I would certainly tackle Sheila in the situation Nevill was in. Prior to any shots being fired The only reason I would hesitate is if Sheila had a shot gun.

Sheila having a rifle used for shooting vermin would not stop me protecting the lives of myself & my family. Nevill would know if Sheila luckily hit him in the torso with one shot, it would be a non fatal wound.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 07:56:AM
So now Nevill didn't call the police after Sheila started shooting the twins. Neville Bamber wasn't present inside the farmhouse when Sheila shot her kids to bits and killed them off. He wasn't in the farmhouse when Sheila shot June Bamber, everything points towards an absence of Neville when Sheila attacked and killed the others off..

Nevill calls Jeremy, lol. Yes, Neville did make a very brief call to Jeremy, at least a call that was long enough to alert Jeremy to the fact that Sheila had gone on a rampage in possession of a gun, before Neville Terminated that call and then spoke to the police! Bamber was lucky the judge was kind enough to just call this phone call 'mysterious'. it wasn't known that Neville Bamber had made his 3.26am call to the police during the trial, in fact the prosecution's case was that if Sheila had got the gun, any gun and she had been going crazy, that Neville would have telephoned the police, not Jeremy!  We now know that Neville did call the police, and that he also had called Jeremy!

Going by what Nevill said on the phone, he was aware Sheila had the rifle & was aware Sheila had 'gone crazy'. Yes, because when he eventually ventured upstairs to the bedrooms during the early hours of 7th August 1985, he had inadvertently stumbled upon Sheila's handy work!So he must have noticed her go upstairs with it. not necessarily, he might have simply assumed that Sheila had been upstairs with the gun..Would have been better to follow her. It would have made more sense if Neville Bamber had left the farmhouse rather than remain at risk of being confronted by Sheila on the war path!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 09, 2018, 08:12:AM
Thanks Mike. I forgot Nevill was outside when Sheila shot everyone else.

Why did Sheila let Nevill make phone calls when he came inside WHF ? After killing everyone else, thought she would try to kill him straight away. Catch him by surprise.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 09, 2018, 09:34:PM
So now Nevill didn't call the police after Sheila started shooting the twins.

Nevill calls Jeremy, lol. Bamber was lucky the judge was kind enough to just call this phone call 'mysterious'.

Going by what Nevill said on the phone, he was aware Sheila had the rifle & was aware Sheila had 'gone crazy'. So he must have noticed her go upstairs with it. Would have been better to follow her.

The judge never called his phone called "mysterious".

The only thing that is mysterious is where you got that idea from.


I would certainly tackle Sheila in the situation Nevill was in. Prior to any shots being fired The only reason I would hesitate is if Sheila had a shot gun.

Sheila having a rifle used for shooting vermin would not stop me protecting the lives of myself & my family. Nevill would know if Sheila luckily hit him in the torso with one shot, it would be a non fatal wound.

Except Sheila hit with two shots to the jaw that penetrated into the back of his neck and a shot that seperated the bones in his arm.

The fact a gun designed to kill vermin caused a comminuted fracture to his arm and went through his jaw bones and teeth. Leads me to suspect he may have had osteoporosis (weak bones due to old age)
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Roch on November 09, 2018, 10:17:PM
Nevill was asleep downstairs, in a chair, probably after a nightcap.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 10, 2018, 06:47:AM
Nevill was asleep downstairs, in a chair, probably after a nightcap.
This may well be true, but it begs the question why Jeremy did not finish him off there and then in the lounge. Assuming Bamber knew his father's sleeping habits was it his original intention to force him by gunpoint to the kitchen telephone, was he going to replace the bedroom telephone after all were killed or did he gamble that nobody would ask where Nevill made the purported call from faced with the fait accompli of Sheila in the master bedroom with the rifle atop of her?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 10, 2018, 08:20:AM
The judge never called his phone called "mysterious".

The only thing that is mysterious is where you got that idea from.


Except Sheila hit with two shots to the jaw that penetrated into the back of his neck and a shot that seperated the bones in his arm.

The fact a gun designed to kill vermin caused a comminuted fracture to his arm and went through his jaw bones and teeth. Leads me to suspect he may have had osteoporosis (weak bones due to old age)

Wilkes's book says 'the third question concerned the mysterious telephone call in the middle of the night'. In the chapter on the judges summing up.

Wilkes's book is unbiased. So doubtful he would start writing the word 'mysterious' over 200 pages in, unless the judge said it.

The judge is perfectly entitled to use that word.

Even the most loyal Bamber supporter will agree Nevill's phone call is the strangest phone call ever.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 10, 2018, 08:26:AM
The judge never called his phone called "mysterious".

The only thing that is mysterious is where you got that idea from.


Except Sheila hit with two shots to the jaw that penetrated into the back of his neck and a shot that seperated the bones in his arm.

The fact a gun designed to kill vermin caused a comminuted fracture to his arm and went through his jaw bones and teeth. Leads me to suspect he may have had osteoporosis (weak bones due to old age)

Well that was Bamber hitting Nevill from close range after catching him by surprise.

An up & awake Nevill will quickly tackle & disarm a woman half his size, holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits. Ringing Jeremy, lol.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 09:36:AM
Thanks Mike. I forgot Nevill was outside when Sheila shot everyone else.

Why did Sheila let Nevill make phone calls when he came inside WHF ? although the police originally thought that Sheila had forced Neville Bamber downstairs at gun point to force him to get Jeremy to come to the farm, they abandoned this idea once the nature of the investigation took another turn at the beginning of September 1985, and onwards! It's not surprising since by November they were adding four spent bullet cases to the main bedroom crime scene (spent cases, DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4) so that by the time the matter came to court, the prosecution could lead with the argument that Neville Bamber could not possibly have spoken to Jeremy or any other person because he had received 4 non fatal shots two of which were to his mouth and his jaw, and therefore he would have not been able to talk or speak, and that this somehow proved that Jeremy had deliberately lied about the telephone call he says he got from his dad! This sipuggestion that Neville had been shot as many as four times non fatally whilst he was present upstairs in the main bedroom cannot be true, since for the first month or so cops believed that Neville had spoken to Jeremy on the telephone! Not only this, but Neville had also spoken to police (3.26am) as well - how could the cops have believed this to be true for longer than a month of so, if they knew from the outset that Neville Bamber had been shot a total of four times earlier upstairs bin his bedroom? They couldn't and they wouldn't have! They only changed their minds once PI Miller instructed DC Hammersley to vacate 4 exhibits listed in his second witness statement and replace these with 4 spent bullet cases. This, by anybodies standards equates to fabricating the evidence, and I am of no doubt that this is what the cops did. They added in 4 spent bullet cases into the main bedroom crime scene, so that the prosecution could argue that Neville Bamber had been shot 4 times before he even reached the kitchen! But, the fact is that he wasn't and he hadn't been shot four times at all already..After killing everyone else, thought she would try to kill him straight away. She had to wait until he was confined to a smaller compact area such as outside the main bedroom door, or the children's bedroom door on the top landing, or as the case may be somewhere on the main stairs either coming up or going down! Catch him by surprise. That is precisely what she did, Adam - she took him by surprise, and knew because she had unplugged the bedroom phone that he would have to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to use the only two phones plugged in by that stage to raise the alarm! Sheila knew that there were two ways to get to the upstairs office phone from a starting point of being on the top landing either outside the main bedroom doorway, or alternatively on the top landing outside the children's bedroom doorway, and that was that (a) Neville would have to  go back down the main stairs and through the kitchen and up the back stairs in order to arrive at the upstairs office phone, or (b) enter the upstairs bathroom and remove the panel of the bathroom wall which gave access to an area close to the upstairs office and it's phone! Hence, why she waited either behind her own bedroom door or the latched door at the top of the spiral doorway on the top landing for the right opportunity to shoot at him! Of course, if Neville Bamber had gone back down the main stairs trying to get to the upstairs office phone, hecwoukd have in any event entered the kitchen where there was also a phone plugged in, so no doubt when and if he got as far as the kitchen phone there is every reason to believe that he took that opportunity to make the two telephone calls he made, the first a very brief call to Jeremy ' Sheila's got the gun, she's gone crazy, come quickly', followed almost immediately by his 3.26am call to the police, 'Daughter gone Berserk 'the and ' My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'...]
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 10:20:AM
I would certainly tackle Sheila in the situation Nevill was in. yes, but what situation did Neville Bamber find himself in? Had no-one been shot at all by the time Sheila confronted him? Or, had Sheila already killed off her two children and her mum (June)?Prior to any shots being fired yes, I see the point, I agree that if no shots had actually been fired by the time Sheila confronted Neville for the first time with the vermin gun that I would have expected him to confront Sheila, at peril of him being wounded, especially since Neville would have had the safety and well-being of his two grandchildren and his wife on his mind..The only reason I would hesitate is if Sheila had a shot gun. well, that's just it, there had been an altercation with the shotgun late on the previous evening in the kitchen an so far as anybody knows, although Neville Bamber had put the shotgun away in the cupboard of the downstairs office, once he stumbled upon Sheila's handy work (the shooting dead of June and the two children) he might have had it in the back of his mind that Sheila might have recovered the shotgun and be laying in wait somewhere in the farmhouse for him with the shotgun! Hence, why when Neville actually spoke to the police that he told them ' My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', because the shotgun was his gun, not Jeremy's? The anshuzt rifle was Jeremy's ( albeit purchased for him by Neville)...

Sheila having a rifle used for shooting vermin would not stop me protecting the lives of myself & my family. yes, but if your family had already been found shot to death, why would you risk also being shot and killed by the same person responsible for killing your family shortly beforehand? Wouldn't you first of all try to avoid direct contact with someone who has just killed three persons and would you not flee and if possible try to raise the alarm? I personally, in such circumstances would have left the farmhouse and gone to one of the neighbouring farm cottages and raised the alarm there!Nevill would know if Sheila luckily hit him in the torso with one shot, it would be a non fatal wound. that would be assuming that he physically saw her holding the vermin rifle - but Neville could have already made his mind up to get to a telephone asap after discovering the tragic scene and noticing that the bedroom telephone was missing, he could have been on his way down the main stairs without having set his eyes on Sheila, he could have been thinking in the back of his mind that Sheila had retaken possession of the shotgun that she had possession of earlier in the previous evening. As it turns out Sheila managed to get a shot off at him with the vermin rifle whilst he was descending down the main stairs! I believe the bullet fired on that / this occasion was the bullet which struck his arm. Blood which subsequently dripped from the fingers of that wounded arm spilled onto the kitchen floor directly beneath that part of the kitchen worktop and Neville's bloody fingermarks were visibly left on the edge of the worktop at that location - so, we know that Neville was standing there at that part of the kitchen where the phones handset was left off its cradle, because of the presence of those bloody fingermarks and the dripped blood onto the kitchen floor below! Neville was wounded when and by the time he called Jeremy, and then the police at 3.26am..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 10:26:AM
Nevill was asleep downstairs, in a chair, probably after a nightcap.

I believe that upon returning to the farmhouse after taking the tractor to the fields, that Neville undressed downstairs and probably did nod off, like you said after a nightcap and was unaware that his wife and two grandchildren had either already been shot and killed, or that whilst he was a sleep the shooter shot them which caused him to go upstairs to investigate and then discovered that either June had been shot by Sheila, and that Sheila was threatening to kill the children, or whatever, so Neville came back downstairs to try and raise the alarm...

But, Neville Bamber wasn't in bed when the shooter shot June...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 10:52:AM
This may well be true, but it begs the question why Jeremy did not finish him off there and then in the lounge. Assuming Bamber knew his father's sleeping habits Jeremy did know that Neville often did not retire to bed, but that he often nodded off after a tot or two of whiskey either downstairs in the lounge, or upstairs in his office.. was it his original intention to force him by gunpoint to the kitchen telephone, was he going to replace the bedroom telephone after all were killed or did he gamble that nobody would ask where Nevill made the purported call from faced with the fait accompli of Sheila in the master bedroom with the rifle atop of her? there are huge problems with this part of your theorey, since you can't keep ignoring the now known facts, which were deliberately not disclosed by police and prosecution regarding where police had got Sheila's body in different locations inside the farmhouse at different times of the mornings investigation, and simply put this down as an error or a mistake on the part of the police! Police don't make the sort of mistakes we are now dealing with! Sheila's body at one time or another, according to timed police messages, and police officers accounts, downstairs behind the door in the laundry (before the firearm officers entered the premises), Sheila's body was in the kitchen for a period of about half and hour or more between 7.35am and 8.10am, her body was not upstairs at 8.10am. Then her body was upstairs in the main bedroom 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am (declared deceased at this time by Dr Craig), followed by Sheila's body being laid on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber with the rifle resting on the bed in between both bodies, and not only did Sheila only have one bullet wound to her neck at that point, but she had a Bible on her chest, as viewed by DS Jones and DC Clark (9.05am), who in turn recounted what they had seen to Ann Eaton and the other relatives who were gathered at Jeremy's cottage on the first morning of the police investigation, only for the Coroner's Officer, PC Wright (9.30am) to describe seeing Sheila's body laid on the main bedroom floor with two bullet entry wounds to her neck, and the fact that the gun had been removed from her body by this time! So many errors and or mistakes, having been made by the police in this investigation, it simply can't possibly be true that so many significant reports one after the other can be explained away as a mistake on the part of the police! The truth in the matter is that Sheila's body was in all of these different locations and positions in and around the farmhouse, downstairs and upstairs, nobody could make up all these details and try to then explain them all away as errors, or mistakes - Sheila was not dead when the firearms team entered the farmhouse, she wasn't dead when they saw her through the laundry room window on the floor behind the door, she wasn't"t dead downstairs in the kitchen at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, and 7.42am. She hadn't committed suicide downstairs before 7.45am! She was not upstairs at or by 8.10am! She was not dead upstairs at 8.44am, ' on the far side of the bed', and she wasn't dead when Jones and Clark saw her body with a single bullet wound to her neck with her body laid on top of the bed (9.05am), but by 9.30am when the Coroner's Officer, PC Wright saw Sheila's body laid on the main bedroom floor, she was dead - she had received the second fatal shot shortly beforehand! These are not mistakes, these are not errors, this is police corruption at its worst. Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself, and her brother Jeremy Bamber did not kill her (these are facts)!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Adam on November 10, 2018, 11:04:AM
Thanks for clarifying everything Mike.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 10, 2018, 04:53:PM
Wilkes's book says 'the third question concerned the mysterious telephone call in the middle of the night'. In the chapter on the judges summing up.

Wilkes's book is unbiased. So doubtful he would start writing the word 'mysterious' over 200 pages in, unless the judge said it.

The judge is perfectly entitled to use that word.

Even the most loyal Bamber supporter will agree Nevill's phone call is the strangest phone call ever.


The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 10, 2018, 05:30:PM

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.
Why would the author be biased if Bamber had initially succeeded in pulling the wool over his eyes? What new developments since the book was written prove his innocence?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 10:49:PM

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. hang on a moment, the truth in the matter was that either Sheila or Jeremy shot and killed the others, and that there was no suggestion that anyone else could have been responsible for their deaths - 'their deaths' being the deaths of June Bamber, Daniel and Nicholas Caffell, and Neville Bambers death, the judge can't have been referring to Sheila's death because he is setting out the argument that either Sheila or Jeremy carried out those shootings and killings, otherwise your saying that the trial judge gave a misdirection when he said what he said in his summing up speech to the jury..No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene No, you have got this all wrong, so did the trial judge - try not to overlook the fact that what we know now about concerning the presence of Sheila Caffell's body downstairs in the Laundry room and the kitchen before being declared dead by 8.44am, upstairs 'on the 'far side of the bed', and then upstairs laid on top of the bed 9.05am, before her body ends up on the bedroom floor by 9.30am.., that in the circumstances of Sheila's death there was almost certainly an involvement of a third party in her death, but there was a third party involvement in Sheila Caffell's death, the cops shot her.. there on the main bedroom floor (but cops did shoot her whilst Sheila's body was laid out on the main bedroom floor!)!, and disappeared, again, you are misinformed, since about an hour after the police first arrived at the premises, a scruffy lookingg hunched man was spotted walking away from he farmhouse!with none having the slightest idea of who it should be Cops originally thought this reason could have been or was to be of a minimum value..., Stop, please stop, the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from Whf has nothing to do with the shooting dead of Sheila Caffell.. this is not true, we now know that Essex police were responsible for shooting Sheila Caffell dead once her body had been moved from its position of being laid on top of the bed, on to the bedroom floor! And, yet in the interim period Sheila's dead body was in several locations at different times of the Investigation... or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise." the reason it wasn't argued during the trial in October 1986, or at the 2002 appeal was because the cops and the prosecution concealed all the available information and evidence concerning what had really occurred or happened..

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative. I did provide Roger Wilkes with material from the Bamber files..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 10, 2018, 11:18:PM
Why would the author be biased if Bamber had initially succeeded in pulling the wool over his eyes? Jeremy didn't shoot dead his sister,  the only people who are responsible for trying to pull the wool over everybody's eyes during the trial were the solicitors, cops and relatives! What new developments since the book was written prove his innocence? Let's start with (1) Sheila wasn't dead when police looked through the laundry room window and reportedly saw the body of a dead Female (behind the door) and She hadn't committed suicide downstairs in the kitchen by 7.45am..[/list]
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 09:22:AM
The distribution of the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases in the three different rooms inside the farmhouse tell a story of their own:-

Main bedroom (2)
Children's bedroom (2)
Kitchen (1)

If the shootings were a one gun crime, the distribution of these 5 double marked bullet cases give an insight into what the shooter did, who she /he targeted, how, when, whereabouts and why?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 09:32:AM
In point of fact, the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases were extracted and ejected from the anshuzt rifle in the following ratio per room inside the farmhouse:-

Main bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item refence numbers of DRH/8 (29), and DRH/43 (44)

Children's bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item reference numbers of DRH/38 (41), and DRH/39 (42)

Kitchen (1) this spent cartridge case had the exhibit defence and Lab' item number of DRH/19 (38)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 09:44:AM
In point of fact, the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases were extracted and ejected from the anshuzt rifle in the following ratio per room inside the farmhouse:-

Main bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item refence numbers of DRH/8 (29), and DRH/43 (44)

Children's bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item reference numbers of DRH/38 (41), and DRH/39 (42)

Kitchen (1) this spent cartridge case had the exhibit defence and Lab' item number of DRH/19 (38)...

If the shooter fired off the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine, the last 5 rounds fired were discharged in the main bedroom (2), the children's room (2) and downstairs in the kitchen (1)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:01:AM
If these shootings were a one gun crime, and prior to the shootings commencing there were only 10 rounds available to the shooter, and the shooter exhausted each of these 10 primary rounds until the gun had run out of bullets, then what appears to have happenned, and we can say this with complete accuracy, that the shooter shot June Bamber in bed first of all, a total of 5 times in bed, and twice after she had left the bed. After shooting June 5 times (non fatally) the shooter had gone into the children's bedroom and shot each child once (both fatally), and that either the shooter had returned to the main bedroom and shot June twice more (both immediately fatal shots), before going downstairs and shooting Neville Bamber once ( non fatally) - this explanation accounts for the discharge of the first magazine load of the first 10 rounds which must have been originally loaded into the guns ammunition magazine, where bullets fired in the following sequence took place or occurred:-

(1) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(2) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(3) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(4) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(5) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(6) - children's bedroom (Daniel Caffell) double set of magazine marks
(7) - children's bedroom (Nicholas Caffell) double set of magazine marks
(8) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks
(9) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks
(10) - kitchen (Neville Bamber) double set of magazine marks
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:04:AM
If these shootings were a one gun crime, and prior to the shootings commencing there were only 10 rounds available to the shooter, and the shooter exhausted each of these 10 primary rounds until the gun had run out of bullets, then what appears to have happenned, and we can say this with complete accuracy, that the shooter shot June Bamber in bed first of all, a total of 5 times in bed, and twice after she had left the bed. After shooting June 5 times (non fatally) the shooter had gone into the children's bedroom and shot each child once (both fatally), and that either the shooter had returned to the main bedroom and shot June twice more (both immediately fatal shots), before going downstairs and shooting Neville Bamber once ( non fatally) - this explanation accounts for the discharge of the first magazine load of the first 10 rounds which must have been originally loaded into the guns ammunition magazine, where bullets fired in the following sequence took place or occurred:-

(1) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(2) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(3) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(4) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(5) - main bedroom (June Bamber) one set of magazine marks
(6) - children's bedroom (Daniel Caffell) double set of magazine marks
(7) - children's bedroom (Nicholas Caffell) double set of magazine marks
(8) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks
(9) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks
(10) - kitchen (Neville Bamber) double set of magazine marks

It now seems somewhat certain to me that the shooter visited the main bedroom firstly, shot at June Bamber 5 times, then left the main bedroom and went to the children's bedroom and shot each of the two children once, and that thereafter the shooter went downstairs to the kitchen and shot Neville Bamber just once...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:11:AM
It now seems somewhat certain to me that the shooter visited the main bedroom firstly, shot at June Bamber 5 times, then left the main bedroom and went to the children's bedroom and shot each of the two children once, and that thereafter the shooter went downstairs to the kitchen and shot Neville Bamber just once...

There was obviously some sort of a delay inbetween the shooter firing the first 5 bullets at June Bamber in the main bedroom and the shooter returning back to the bedroom, after visiting the children's bedroom in-between the two episodes that June Bamber was shot at and subsequently killed off - ample delay to have enabled June Bamber to get herself out of bed and make her way around the bed to the other side of the bed in the vicinity of the box room doorway, and back again to the original side of the bed she had been on. Similarly, after the shooter had returned to the main bedroom to finish off June Bamber, there was a delay before the shooter ended up downstairs to enable the last of the double magazine marked rounds to be fired off at Neville Bamber..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:17:AM
Similarly, after the shooter had returned to the main bedroom to finish off June Bamber, there was a delay before the shooter ended up downstairs to enable the last of the double magazine marked rounds to be fired off at Neville Bamber..

Having given the matter some considerable thought, and proceeding on the footing that up until that / this point only one gun had been used to kill off the two child victims (Daniel and Nicholas), and June Bamber, with the last of the first full load of the guns 10 shot capacity ammunition magazine being fired at Neville Bamber downstairs in the kitchen, I feel bound to accept that either that shot killed Neville Bamber outright, or that he having sustained that particular shot somehow managed to flee upstairs or out if the way, enabling the shooter to reload the guns ammunition magazine with an additional 10 live rounds!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:29:AM
Listed below are the locations inside the farmhouse where the 5 double magazine marked spent bullet cases were found by police - I have included a plan showing the whereabouts of each of these double magazine marked bullet cases, as found in the children's bedroom (DRH/38 and DRH/39), the main bedroom (DRH/8 and DRH/43), and the kitchen (DRH/19), for ease of reference...


(6) - children's bedroom (Daniel Caffell) double set of magazine marks (DRH/38)

(7) - children's bedroom (Nicholas Caffell) double set of magazine marks DRH/39)

(8) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks DRH/8)

(9) - main bedroom (June Bamber) double set of magazine marks DRH/43)

(10) - kitchen (Neville Bamber) double set of magazine marks DRH/43)
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:41:AM
Insofar as the shooting of Neville Bamber downstairs in the kitchen I feel bound to believe that he was or may have only been non fatally injured by the last round (bullet case DRH/43) fired from the first load of 10 rounds of the guns ammunition magazine, and that immediately after being shot at, that he fled upstairs! I arrive at this hypothesis due to the fact that I feel convinced that at one stage he was shot at whilst escaping from the shooter down the main stairs - the angle of the shot to his arm seems to confirm this to me..

If true, then the shot to his arm, must have occurred after he had been shot at downstairs in the kitchen with the last of the double magazine marked bullets - in other words, if these shootings were in fact a one gun crime (thus far) the shooter would have needed to reload the gun with bullets before she or he could go after Neville Bamber to finish him off ( with an additional 7 further shots fired from the reload of the gun)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 10:49:AM
There must have been something of a delay between the last shot from the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine that was fired at Neville Bamber downstairs in the kitchen (to which bullet case DRH/19, refers), and the occasion where the shooter found themselves upstairs and in a position to fire a shot off at Neville Bamber as he fled back downstairs, prior to him entering up dead in the kitchen..

We therefore need to be looking at the injury diagram produced by the pathologist to look at and consider the four so called non fatal shots, bearing in mind that Neville Bamber must have been present downstairs in the kitchen on two separate occasions during this shooting tragedy - once when the shooter fired the last of the double magazine marked rounds (DRH/19) at him, and secondly after the shooter had shot at him as he fled downstairs?

Neville Bamber bullet Entry Wounds

Seems to me, that there existed two particular bullet entry wounds (7) and (8)  which could fit into the sequence I have spoken about involving the last of the double magazine marked bullet cases (DRH/19) downstairs in the kitchen, and the shooting of Neville Bamber after the shooter had reloaded the guns ammunition magazine with additional bullets, and the shooter had proceeded upstairs in pursuit of him...

Rather somewhat significantly, both the shot in the kitchen (associated with the double magazine marked bullet case DRH/19) and or the shot at Neville Bamber as he fled downstairs in an effort to avoid the shooter, could have been the source for the bloodied fingermarks that were present on the edge of the kitchen worktop close to where the telephones handset was off its cradle, or as the case may be the multiple splashes and drips of blood on the kitchen floor in that same vicinity!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:10:AM

Rather somewhat significantly, both the shot in the kitchen (associated with the double magazine marked bullet case DRH/19) and or the shot at Neville Bamber as he fled downstairs in an effort to avoid the shooter, could have been the source for the bloodied fingermarks that were present on the edge of the kitchen worktop close to where the telephones handset was off its cradle, or as the case may be the multiple splashes and drips of blood on the kitchen floor in that same vicinity!

Based on my findings here, it becomes apparent that Neville Bamber could not possibly have been shot 4 times inside the main bedroom crime scene - he could not have been present in the main bedroom when his wife June Bamber had been shot initially since if that be true, there would have almost certainly been a presence of all 5 double magazine marked spent bullet cases (DRH/8, DRH/19, DRH/38, DRH/39 and DRH/43) present there in the main bedroom (June shot 5 times + Neville supposedly shot 4 times = first 9 shots from the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine)!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: Caroline on November 11, 2018, 11:11:AM

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.

Wikes's book isn't biased and is STILL a good reference source.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:16:AM
Based on my findings here, it becomes apparent that Neville Bamber could not possibly have been shot 4 times inside the main bedroom crime scene - he could not have been present in the main bedroom when his wife June Bamber had been shot initially since if that be true, there would have almost certainly been a presence of all 5 double magazine marked spent bullet cases (DRH/8, DRH/19, DRH/38, DRH/39 and DRH/43) present there in the main bedroom (June shot 5 times + Neville supposedly shot 4 times = first 9 shots from the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine)!

The distribution of the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases in various parts of the farmhouse ( children's bedroom (DRH/38 and DRH/39), main bedroom (DRH/8 and DRH/43), and (DRH/19) the kitchen) plus the fact that PI Miller requested DC Hammersley to introduce 4 spent bullet cases (DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4) into the main bedroom crime scene tells a story all by itself...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:24:AM
The distribution of the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases in various parts of the farmhouse ( children's bedroom (DRH/38 and DRH/39), main bedroom (DRH/8 and DRH/43), and (DRH/19) the kitchen) plus the fact that PI Miller requested DC Hammersley to introduce 4 spent bullet cases (DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4) into the main bedroom crime scene tells a story all by itself...

These facts tell everybody and anybody that Neville Bamber could not possibly have been present inside the main bedroom when the shooter shot his wife, and that rather than it have been impossible for Neville Bamber to have spoken to Jeremy (and the police, at 3.26am) on the telephone because he had been shot in the mouth and Jaw upstairs in the main bedroom before he found his way downstairs, and would have been unable to talk because of such injuries, what we now find is that at best Neville Bamber may not have been shot at at all by the time he made those phone calls, or at the best he could have been already shot at once (to which the double magazine marked DRH/19 spent bullet case in the kitchen refers), or twice if you include the shot at him by the shooter as he bounded down the main stairs (shots / bullet wounds 7 and 8)..

Seems likes clear case to me that in such circumstances, and with the bullet entry wounds appearing to back me up on this, along with a presence of bloodied fingermarks on the edge of the kitchen worktop close to the phone, and multiple Bloodstains on the kitchen floor immediately below, that Neville Bamber was stood there at some point whilst still alive (albeit bleeding) and that he could have made that call that Jeremy says he had received from him! By the same token, Neville could have made the 3.26am call to the police...

I for one believe that he did, because the cops and the prosecution have introduced this red herrin' claiming that Neville Bamber would have been unable to speak or talk because he had already been shot four times (mouth and Jaw) upstairs in the main bedroom beforehand - we can now safely assume that Neville Bamber had not been shot four times upstairs in the main bedroom, that proposition was a totally unfounded and a dishonest one!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:37:AM
These findings of mine only relate to the use of one gun (the anshuzt rifle) in the shootings of June Bamber, Daniel Caffell, Nicholas Caffell, and Neville Bamber, where June was shot 5 times, Daniel was shot once, Nicholas was shot once, June was shot a further twice, and Neville Bamber was shot once downstairs in the kitchen (that's a total of 10 bullets from the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine)...

I reserve the right to introduce the possible use of the second gun, thereafter ( including the shot at Neville Bamber as he fled down the main stairs)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:46:AM
These findings of mine only relate to the use of one gun (the anshuzt rifle) in the shootings of June Bamber, Daniel Caffell, Nicholas Caffell, and Neville Bamber, where June was shot 5 times, Daniel was shot once, Nicholas was shot once, June was shot a further twice, and Neville Bamber was shot once downstairs in the kitchen (that's a total of 10 bullets from the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine)...

I reserve the right to introduce the possible use of the second gun, thereafter ( including the shot at Neville Bamber as he fled down the main stairs)...

With this in mind, I would now like to apply these now known facts to the proposition that Jeremy Bamber was the shooter of June, Daniel, Nicholas and Neville Bamber, where he used up all of the 10 rounds of the first full load of the anshuzt rifles ammunition magazine...

Supposedly being the calm calculated killer that he was made out to be, seems to me that he didn't make a good job of making sure that he could kill everybody with the 10 bullets at his disposal. He couldn't"t even kill his mother despite shooting at her 5 times whilst she lay horizontally prone in her bed! Of course, he could easily have killed off the two child victims with a shot a piece to the head. Then back to the main bedroom to finish his mother off...

But, by this time he has only got one bullet left in his gun...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:48:AM
Supposedly being the calm calculated killer that he was made out to be, seems to me that he didn't make a good job of making sure that he could kill everybody with the 10 bullets at his disposal. He couldn't"t even kill his mother despite shooting at her 5 times whilst she lay horizontally prone in her bed! Of course, he could easily have killed off the two child victims with a shot a piece to the head. Then back to the main bedroom to finish his mother off...

But, by this time he has only got one bullet left in his gun...

One bullet left (the last of the first 10), so Jeremy the shooter is running out of bullets, he has to return to the kitchen to load the gun up with additional bullets!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:53:AM
One bullet left (the last of the first 10), so Jeremy the shooter is running out of bullets, he has to return to the kitchen to load the gun up with additional bullets!

When he arrives downstairs in the kitchen he confronts Neville Bamber, and fired the last shot off at him (the last of the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases refer), the shot didn't kill him, and thereafter ensued a struggle between Neville Bamber and Jeremy - Despite being wounded, Neville Bamber makes good his escape and manages to get himself upstairs...

Jeremy the shooter now has time to reload fresh / new bullets intontge guns ammunition magazine, after which he cautiously proceeds upstairs to hunt Neville Bamber down!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:58:AM
Jeremy shoots at Neville as Neville runs off back down the main stairs - Jeremy goes after him, and corners him downstairs in the kitchen ( Jeremy has still got at best 9 live rounds loaded into the ammunition magazine of the rifle in his possession! He knows that once Neville gets downstairs that he will have access to tgecshit in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office, and access to other firearms belonging to Anthony Pargeter kept in the downstairs toilet / bathroom - so Jeremy the shooter has to act quickly!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 11:59:AM
Jeremy shoots at Neville as Neville runs off back down the main stairs - Jeremy goes after him, and corners him downstairs in the kitchen ( Jeremy has still got at best 9 live rounds loaded into the ammunition magazine of the rifle in his possession! He knows that once Neville gets downstairs that he will have access to tgecshit in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office, and access to other firearms belonging to Anthony Pargeter kept in the downstairs toilet / bathroom - so Jeremy the shooter has to act quickly!

From this point onwards, Jeremy needs to shoot Neville Bamber (somewhere downstairs) another 6 times!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 12:04:PM
Just to recap, thus far...

Neville Bamber must have been shot whilst he was downstairs in the kitchen because the presence of the last double magazine marked bullet case (DRH/19) was found downstairs in the kitchen! Additionally, since June Bamber nor Sheila herself were said to have been shot at anywhere else in the farmhouse by police other than in the main bedroom, it must follow that Neville Bamber got shot at as he made his way hurriedly down the main stairs..

Neville thus far, shot at once downstairs in the kitchen to which bullet case DRH/19 relates to, and shot at once as he ran off down the main stairs...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 12:09:PM
Just to recap, thus far...

Neville Bamber must have been shot whilst he was downstairs in the kitchen because the presence of the last double magazine marked bullet case (DRH/19) was found downstairs in the kitchen! Additionally, since June Bamber nor Sheila herself were said to have been shot at anywhere else in the farmhouse by police other than in the main bedroom, it must follow that Neville Bamber got shot at as he made his way hurriedly down the main stairs..

Neville thus far, shot at once downstairs in the kitchen to which bullet case DRH/19 relates to, and shot at once as he ran off down the main stairs...

With Neville Bamber destined to be shot at a further 6 times, once he arrived back downstairs, and the fact that only 3 spent bullet cases (including DRH/19) were supposedly found downstairs in the kitchen, what of the Missing, unaccounted for 4 additional bullet cases, which must be associated with the remaining 4 bullets, which almost certainly got fired at Neville Bamber once he got back downstairs into the kitchen?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 12:13:PM
With Neville Bamber destined to be shot at a further 6 times, once he arrived back downstairs, and the fact that only 3 spent bullet cases (including DRH/19) were supposedly found downstairs in the kitchen, what of the Missing, unaccounted for 4 additional bullet cases, which must be associated with the remaining 4 bullets, which almost certainly got fired at Neville Bamber once he got back downstairs into the kitchen?

Yes, you've worked it out - four (4) missing bullet cases from the vicinity of the kitchen gone missing, and subsequently adjoined into the main bedroom scenario by Essex police, in the guise of exhibits, DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 12:19:PM
Yes, you've worked it out - four (4) missing bullet cases from the vicinity of the kitchen gone missing, and subsequently adjoined into the main bedroom scenario by Essex police, in the guise of exhibits, DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4...

There has been an obvious transference of 4 spent bullet cases by Essex police, from somewhere downstairs (arguably the region of the kitchen), upstairs to become part of the main bedroom bullet case distribution folklore, enabling the prosecution to be able to argue that Neville Bamber wouldn't"t have been able to speak or to talk on the telephone even if he had wanted to, because he had already been shot as many as 4 times in the bedroom upstairs...

Well...

That argument as relied upon by Essex police and the dastardly prosecuting authorities, was / is a damn right awful lie...

I can prove what I am saying I can prove 100% that cops and prosecution told a blatent lie about this aspect or feature of the case!

How can I prove it?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 12:25:PM

How can I prove it?

I can prove 'it' so to speak, by the fact that a double magazine marked bullet case (DRH/19) was found downstairs in the kitchen crime scene! I can safely assume that the bullet associated with this spent cartridge case (dRH/19) was the last bullet that was fired from the anshuzt rifle, before whoever the shooter was, would either have had to use a different gun which had already been preloaded with ammunition, or to reload the anshuzt rifle with additional rounds!

 I can't envisage the shooter wanting or needing to reload the anshuzt rifle with additional bullets, until the gun was out of bullets!

For this reason, and backed up with what I have spoken about, the shot connected to the double magazine marked bullet case (DRH/19) found downstairs in the kitchen must have been the very last bullet out of the original 10 which had been loaded into the gun...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 11, 2018, 05:08:PM
I simply can't imagine that the shooter would have reloaded the guns ammunition magazine until after they had run out of bullets!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:13:AM
I simply can't imagine that the shooter would have reloaded the guns ammunition magazine until after they had run out of bullets!

Another thing which I remembered that Jeremy once told me, which has to be taken into account, is that when he returned to the farmhouse on the previous evening, after failing to confront the rabbits he had been somewhat keen to shoot at, was that he told me how after he had unclipped the ammunition from the anshuzt rifle and that he had replaced this with the box of ammunition on the kitchen worktop! Elsewhere Jeremy is supposed to have clipped the round he removed from the breech of the anshuzt rifle and placed it back inside the guns ammunition magazine!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:24:AM
Another thing which I remembered that Jeremy once told me, which has to be taken into account, is that when he returned to the farmhouse on the previous evening, after failing to confront the rabbits he had been somewhat keen to shoot at, was that he told me how after he had unclipped the ammunition from the anshuzt rifle and that he had replaced this with the box of ammunition on the kitchen worktop! Elsewhere Jeremy is supposed to have clipped the round he removed from the breech of the anshuzt rifle and placed it back inside the guns ammunition magazine!

Being the astute person that I am, I have looked at both versions of this account to try and fathom out where the actual truth lies...

On the one hand, police found a box for the Eley .22LR ammunition on the kitchen worktop (exhibit DRH/42) which had (a) 29 live rounds tipped out onto the kitchen worktop alongside, with (b) a solitary .22 bullet in the box itself..

The 29 live rounds on the kitchen worktop had never been loaded into the ammunition of the rifle, but the solitary round that was found in the ammunition box was found to have one set of ammunition magazine markings, and one set of breech markings, and one set of extraction markings upon it..

This to me, seems to confirm what Jeremy has told me previously, for example, that he had removed a round from the breech of the rifle, and put it back in the ammunition box on the kitchen worktop...

On the other hand, the other narrative whereby once Jeremy had removed the solitary round from the breech of the gun and that he had clipped this into the ammunition magazine, has other implications, if true...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:33:AM
On the other hand, the other narrative whereby once Jeremy had removed the solitary round from the breech of the gun and that he had clipped this into the ammunition magazine, has other implications, if true...

Since..

It means that there should have been at least one spent bullet case amongst the batch of crime scene ammunition, which had got two sets of ammunition magazine marks upon it, two sets of breech marks upon it, one firing pin mark, two sets of extraction markings, and one set of ejection markings upon it...

No such marked bullet case was found to have been amongst the 25 spent bullet cases recovered from the scene - this to me seems to confirm what Jeremy told me regarding what he had done with the bullet in the breech of the rifle, after he had removed the ammunition magazine from the anshuzt rifle after 9pm on the Tuesday evening (6th August 1985)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:35:AM
What I am concerned about...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:38:AM
What I am concerned about...

Is the fact that by the time police started taking photographs in the kitchen, that the 29 live rounds were still spilled out onto the kitchen worktop!

Jeremy told me that when he went into the kitchen to load up the ammunition magazine to the anshuzt rifle, how he had spilled out the .22 bullets from the box of ammunition onto the kitchen worktop...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:42:AM

Jeremy told me that when he went into the kitchen to load up the ammunition magazine to the anshuzt rifle, how he had spilled out the .22 bullets from the box of ammunition onto the kitchen worktop...

The fact that Jeremy said this to me, and the fact that by the following morning when the police started taking photographs in the kitchen that live rounds were still spilled out on the kitchen worktop worries me...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:47:AM
The fact that Jeremy said this to me, and the fact that by the following morning when the police started taking photographs in the kitchen that live rounds were still spilled out on the kitchen worktop worries me...

This is because Jeremy left whf at about 9.30pm, that evening, and the farm secretary spoke to Neville Bamber on the telephone at around the same time. Similarly at about 10pm June Bamber was using the kitchen phone to speak to her sister Pamela Boutflour - I would have thought that either Neville Bamber, or June Bamber, would have seen the live rounds tipped out onto the kitchen worktop in close proximity to the phone and put them away out of harm's way...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:54:AM
 In fairness to what Jeremy told me, I should point out that at the time Jeremy says he tipped out live rounds onto the kitchen worktop, there had been 50 live rounds in total, and that by the time he had removed one live round from the breech of the anshuzt rifle, which he told me he had replaced back into the ammunition box, there was arguably still 45 live rounds still laying on the kitchen worktop, whereas by the time police seized exhibit DRH/42, there were only a total of 30 live rounds made up of 29 loose live rounds on the worktop, and one live round in the box itself...

In-between Jeremy tipping out the box contents onto the kitchen worktop on the previous evening, and the occasion when police seized exhibit DRH/42 a total of 20 live rounds were missing!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 09:58:AM

In-between Jeremy tipping out the box contents onto the kitchen worktop on the previous evening, and the occasion when police seized exhibit DRH/42 a total of 20 live rounds were missing!

This must mean that there had been a total of 5 live rounds already loaded into the rifles ammunition magazine, prior to Jeremy loading more bullets into the ammunition magazine as described!

These additional 5 live rounds must have previously been loaded into the ammunition magazine, removed and reloaded, prior to the occasion when Jeremy says he loaded more bullets into it...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 10:02:AM
With 5 live rounds already loaded into the ammunition magazine of the anshuzt rifle, and Jeremy's handling of at least 5 live rounds from the new box of ammunition, his fingerprints should have been found on at least 5 of the spent cartridge cases (the ones he managed to load up, into the magazine)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 10:04:AM
According to what Jeremy told DCI Jones, and DS Jones, the silencer was not attached to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel on the evening before the shootings occurred, and neither was the guns telescopic site fitted on the weapon...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 10:09:AM
According to what Jeremy told DCI Jones, and DS Jones, the silencer was not attached to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel on the evening before the shootings occurred, and neither was the guns telescopic site fitted on the weapon...

This is interesting because by that stage (9th August 1985), the cops already had possession of the silencer in the 'guise of exhibit SBJ/1 - a silencer which DS Jones had taken control of at the scene on the first morning of the police investigation into these shootings...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 12, 2018, 10:51:AM
This is interesting because by that stage (9th August 1985), the cops already had possession of the silencer in the 'guise of exhibit SBJ/1 - a silencer which DS Jones had taken control of at the scene on the first morning of the police investigation into these shootings...

If the silencer wasn't fitted to the guns barrel on the evening prior to the shootings, then why did DS Jones decide to seize it on the first morning of the investigation? In point of fact, DS Jones returned to the farmhouse on a second occasion that morning, and it was on this 2nd occasion that he took possession of it...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:27:AM
Rather somewhat conveniently, when he was interviewed by the COLP investigators in 1992, when they reminded him that he had returned to the farmhouse, from Jeremy's cottage in Goldhanger, he responded by saying that he had forgotten that he had gone back to the farmhouse on that first morning of the police investigation, and that he could not remember going back there, although he accepted that he must have done!

Funny how conveniently he forgot something of such importance...

He went back and he took possession of the silencer, a silencer which was given the exhibit reference 'SBJ/1'...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:29:AM
Rather somewhat conveniently, when he was interviewed by the COLP investigators in 1992, when they reminded him that he had returned to the farmhouse, from Jeremy's cottage in Goldhanger, he responded by saying that he had forgotten that he had gone back to the farmhouse on that first morning of the police investigation, and that he could not remember going back there, although he accepted that he must have done!

Funny how conveniently he forgot something of such importance...

He went back and he took possession of the silencer, a silencer which was given the exhibit reference 'SBJ/1'...

Even stranger that the SOCO's present at the scene did not recollect that he had returned to the farmhouse, and that he had taken 4 exhibits (SBJ/4, SBJ/3, SBJ/2 and SBJ/1) from a crime scene that SOCO were in control of?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:34:AM
Factor into this scenario the suggestion that David Boutflour found 'the' silencer (SJ/1) in the gun cupboard on 10th August 1985, you then end up with a significant conflict...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:45:AM
Factor into this scenario the suggestion that David Boutflour found 'the' silencer (SJ/1) in the gun cupboard on 10th August 1985, you then end up with a significant conflict...

Was silencer 'SBJ/1' that DS Jones seized at the farmhouse on the 7th August 1985, the same silencer 'SJ/1' which David Boutflour claims he found in the gun cupboard at whf on 10th August 1985, which in turn was supposedly handed over to DS Jones by Peter Eaton on the evening of 12th August 1985?

If so...

How did the silencer (SBJ/1) get back into the gun cupboard at the scene in time for David Boutflour to re-tind it again on a second occasion?

The only other alternative, was that there had been two different silencers, one seized by DS Jones on 7th August 1985, and a second one found by David Boutflour (SJ/1) in the gun cupboard at the scene 4 days later (10th August 1985)..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:51:AM
Was silencer 'SBJ/1' that DS Jones seized at the farmhouse on the 7th August 1985, the same silencer 'SJ/1' which David Boutflour claims he found in the gun cupboard at whf on 10th August 1985, which in turn was supposedly handed over to DS Jones by Peter Eaton on the evening of 12th August 1985?

If so...

How did the silencer (SBJ/1) get back into the gun cupboard at the scene in time for David Boutflour to re-tind it again on a second occasion?

The only other alternative, was that there had been two different silencers, one seized by DS Jones on 7th August 1985, and a second one found by David Boutflour (SJ/1) in the gun cupboard at the scene 4 days later (10th August 1985)..

Anyway...

By the evening of 12th August 1985, DS Jones, either knew about the existence of a solitary silencer (which he had personally taken possession of from the scene on 7th August) on the footing that he had subsequently returned 'it' to the gun cupboard back at the farmhouse during a visit he made their in the company of DCI Jones, and Ann Eaton, or that there existed two identical looking silencers, ( one (SBJ/1) which he had seized at the scene, as described, and another (SJ/1) found at the scene by a relative)?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 08:56:AM
Let us not forget, that the cops narrative, included the suggestion that after receiving 'the' silencer (SJ/1) from Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985, how DS Jones had failed to lodge tgecsaid silencer in any police property store, or for that matter, he had failed to complete any official paperwork at the police station concerning how the silencer had come into police possession, with on the 7th August 1985 when he originally seized silencer ' SBJ/1' or on the 12th August 1985 when he came into possession of the said 'SJ/1'!...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 09:04:AM
Let us not forget, that the cops narrative, included the suggestion that after receiving 'the' silencer (SJ/1) from Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985, how DS Jones had failed to lodge tgecsaid silencer in any police property store, or for that matter, he had failed to complete any official paperwork at the police station concerning how the silencer had come into police possession, with on the 7th August 1985 when he originally seized silencer ' SBJ/1' or on the 12th August 1985 when he came into possession of the said 'SJ/1'!...

Before moving on from this matter, I feel I should draw attention to the fact that DS Jones was given a fresh pocketbook inwhich to rewrite his handwritten notes, excluding any reference to him returning to the scene for the second time, and seizing amongst other things the first silencer (SBJ/1)...

In this respect, I produce a copy of the front cover of DS Jones pocketbook that he was permitted to rewrite his account into, which excludes any reference to the fact that he returned to the scene on the first morning of the police investigation and thst he seized a silencer (SBJ/1)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 09:19:AM
So..

The cops (in particular, DS Jones) must have thought that the silencer must have been used in the shooting incident, or did he take 'it' (SBJ/1) on that first morning of the investigation, simply for takings sake?

In any event when he seized it originally, no doubt being the astute detective he thought himself to be, he would have looked at it, and examined it, and if there had been any visible blood upon it, or any ingrained red paint from the scratched kitchen aga upon it, DS Jones would have seen it - and if he had seen blood and or paint upon 'it' then why would never turn it back to the farmhouse on the evening of 9th August 1985?

It just doesn't make any sense, that if the silencer (SBJ/1) he seized at the scene on 7th August 1985, had got some blood and paint upon it, that hecwoukd simply return the silencer back to the scene, and presumably return 'it' back into the gun cupboard...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 09:21:AM

It just doesn't make any sense, that if the silencer (SBJ/1) he seized at the scene on 7th August 1985, had got some blood and paint upon it, that hecwoukd simply return the silencer back to the scene, and presumably return 'it' back into the gun cupboard...

If DS Jones did return a silencer back to the farmhouse on 9th August 1985, then we can be pretty damned sure that it hasn't got any blood upon it, or any paint from the scratched kitchen aga upon it at that time!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 13, 2018, 09:23:AM
Wikes's book isn't biased and is STILL a good reference source.

It cannot be a reference source because its has no citation marks and no citation index.

Furthermore he writes about Jeremy in the witness box when no transcript of it even exists.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 09:28:AM
Proceeding on that footing, let's assume that the silencer seized by DS Jones (SBJ/1) from the scene on 7th August 1985, was / is the self- same silencer (SJ/1) recovered by David Boutflour from the gun cupboard in the den at the scene on 10th August 1985...

What must have happenned was that the cops pretended they had never had 'that' silencer at all in the first instance. Now, why would that be?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 13, 2018, 09:31:AM

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.

Ironically one of the few things the Judge actually got right. A hypothetical third-party being the culprit would indeed be "mysterious".
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 09:36:AM
Proceeding on that footing, let's assume that the silencer seized by DS Jones (SBJ/1) from the scene on 7th August 1985, was / is the self- same silencer (SJ/1) recovered by David Boutflour from the gun cupboard in the den at the scene on 10th August 1985...

What must have happenned was that the cops pretended they had never had 'that' silencer at all in the first instance. Now, why would that be?

Let's clear up the circumstances concerning how 'that' silencer (SJ/1) came to be given that exhibit reference so as to avoid any further confusion - on 13th August 1985, DS Jones handed the silencer to DI Cook (SOCO) which had been given to him by Peter Eaton the evening before. Cook had taken it along to Huntingdon Lab' so that Glynis Howard could provisionally examined it that same date. However, Cook realised that there wasn't an exhibit label attached to the silencer by this time, so he attached to 'it' one himself, bearing the exhibit reference 'SJ/1', a fact which he recounted to the COLP investigators in 1992, he said he didn't know that DS Jones had a middle name, that he only knew him as 'Stan Jones', hence why he gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1'. He told COLP that both he and Glynis Howard signed the exhibit label in question (SJ/1) at positions 2 and 3, mindful of leaving a space at position 1 on the label for the signature of the finder of the silencer, who Cook believed to be at that stage, DS Jones, or 'Stan Jones's...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 10:36:AM
However, Cook realised that there wasn't an exhibit label attached to the silencer by this time, so he attached to 'it' one himself, bearing the exhibit reference 'SJ/1', a fact which he recounted to the COLP investigators in 1992, he said he didn't know that DS Jones had a middle name, that he only knew him as 'Stan Jones', hence why he gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1'. He told COLP that both he and Glynis Howard signed the exhibit label in question (SJ/1) at positions 2 and 3, mindful of leaving a space at position 1 on the label for the signature of the finder of the silencer, who Cook believed to be at that stage, DS Jones, or 'Stan Jones's...

Howard handed the silencer (SJ/1) back to Cook at the Lab' that same day (13th Agsust 1985), because Cook wanted to fingerprint it. He did not book that silencer into any police property store, and no official police records exist to confirm that the police had got this (SJ/1) silencer back in their possession. There wasn't even a Lab' record confirming that the silencer (SJ/1) had been returned to police on that date!

When questioned by COLP about the lack of documentation concerning the whereabouts of that (SJ/1) silencer, and why hadn't it been put in police storage, Cook responded by saying that he had kept that (SJ/1) silencer in his cat pocket all the time, and that he had taken it everywhere with him, and not let it out of his sight, until the 30th August 1985, when he says 'it' was resubmitted back to the Lab'..

Well...

I find this explanation not only unbelievable but also damn right unacceptable...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 10:42:AM

When questioned by COLP about the lack of documentation concerning the whereabouts of that (SJ/1) silencer, and why hadn't it been put in police storage, Cook responded by saying that he had kept that (SJ/1) silencer in his cat pocket all the time, and that he had taken it everywhere with him, and not let it out of his sight, until the 30th August 1985, when he says 'it' was resubmitted back to the Lab'..

Well...

I find this explanation not only unbelievable but also damn right unacceptable...

Cook supposedly kept the silencer (SJ/1) in his coat pocket on all the following occasions, until he says 'it' was subsequently sent to Huntingdon Lab' again, on the 30th August 1985:-

13th August 1985 (Day 1 )
14th August 1985 (Day 2 )  ***
15th August 1985 (Day 3 )  ***
17th August 1985 (Day 5 )
18th August 1985 (Day 6 )
19th August 1985 (Day 7 )
20th August 1985 (Day 8 )
21st August 1985 (Day 9 )
22nd August 1985 (Day 10 )
23rd August 1985 (Day 11 )  ***
24th August 1985 (Day 12 )
25th August 1985 (Day 13 )
26th August 1985 (Day 14 )
27th August 1985 (Day 15 )
28th August 1985 (Day 16 )
29th August 1985 (Day 17 ). ***

and until 'it was submitted to Huntingdon Lab' on the 30th August 1985 ( Day 18 )..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 10:57:AM
The four dates, 14th, 15th, 23rd and the 29th August 1985, were somewhat red letter dates in the history of the silencer debacle...

Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:04:AM
The four dates, 14th, 15th, 23rd and the 29th August 1985, were somewhat red letter dates in the history of the silencer debacle...

Since, on the 14th August 1985, Cook, Miller and DS Jones attended the scene in the company of Ann Eaton, and the cops told her that if anyone should ask why they were back at the farmhouse, she was to tell them that the police had been taking measurements of the kitchen mantelpiece...

Another matter of interest, concerns when COLP spoke to Cook and DS Jones about that visit, when asked if they had deliberately scratched the kitchen aga surround with the silencer, they told COLP that they didn't even have the silencer with them on that occasion - funny how Cook told them that throughout the entire period 13th to 30th August 1985, that he kept the silencer in his coat pocket at all times and that he never let 'it' out of his site at any stage ( no, of course he didn't)!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:12:AM
On the 15th August 1985, Cook fingerprinted the silencer using oblique light testing...

On the 23rd August 1985, Cook fingerprinted the silencer using Cyanoacrylate fuming (Superglue treatment)

On the 29th August 1985, Cook dismantled the silencer, removing it's end cap, top washer, and the 17 inner baffle plates, separating these from the silencers main tubing - he purposefully created a gap between the silencers metal end cap, top washer and the first half dozen or so top end inner baffle plates, leaving the remaining bottom end inner baffle plates compacted. He then rebuilt the silencer and screwed it directly onto the external thread on the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel ( Cook took photographs of this procedure)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:14:AM
Cook maintained to COLP that on the 30th August 1985, that this silencer (SJ/1) was resubmitted to Huntingdon Lab' to be examined, but the silencer which was received at the Lab' on that date had a different exhibit reference 'DB/1'...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:16:AM
Cook maintained to COLP that on the 30th August 1985, that this silencer (SJ/1) was resubmitted to Huntingdon Lab' to be examined, but the silencer which was received at the Lab' on that date had a different exhibit reference 'DB/1'...

It now falls to be considered, whether or not the silencer bearing the exhibit references 'SJ/1' and 'DB/1' were, infact, one and the same silencer(s)?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:26:AM
Thus far (1), there have already been problems concerning the seizure of a silencer by DS Jones (SBJ/1) at the scene on the 7th August 1985, as discerned from the silencer (SJ/1) found by David Boutflour in a gun cupboard at the scene on the 10th August 1985, which through the involvement of Peter Eaton, DSJones, DI Cook, and Glynis Howard found its way on the 13th August 1985 back into DI Cooks possession, (he) who allegedly retained possession of 'it' for the following 18 days or so, 'it' rather unusually being kept in Cooks coat pocket throughout that 18 day period, 'it' never supposedly being out of his sight, yet rather worryingly 'it' (SJ/1) was not with Cook and the others when on the 14th August 1985, the police attended the scene and focussed on the kitchen mantelpiece. It's whereabouts (SJ/1) at this time, has never yet been explained, but in any event if it wasn't with Cook in his coat pocket, then Cook lied to the COLP investigators regarding this! Rather controversially, if Cook and the others did have the (SJ/1) the silencer with them at the farmhouse on 14th August 1985, then why did they lie and make out that they did not?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:35:AM
yet rather worryingly 'it' (SJ/1) was not with Cook and the others when on the 14th August 1985, the police attended the scene and focussed on the kitchen mantelpiece. It's whereabouts (SJ/1) at this time, has never yet been explained, but in any event if it wasn't with Cook in his coat pocket, then Cook lied to the COLP investigators regarding this! Rather controversially, if Cook and the others did have the (SJ/1) the silencer with them at the farmhouse on 14th August 1985, then why did they lie and make out that they did not?

Thus far (2)..

Yet to be fully understood, and COLP also querying the same, was why Essex police, did not obtain the elimination fingerprints by 15th August 1985 or the 23rd August 1985, at the latest, of everyone who had potentially handled one or other of the silencers ( SBJ/1 & SJ/1), namely, DS Jones, DCI Jones, David Boutflour, Ann Eaton, Peter Eaton, Robert Boutflour, PI Miller, DI Cook, and Glynis Howard, in connection with the two fingerprint examinations carried out on the 15th and the 23rd August 1985?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:37:AM
Thus far (3)..

And then, on the 29th August 1985, a very worrying turn of events whereby Cook physically dismantled the silencer (SJ/1)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:41:AM
Thus far (3)..

And then, on the 29th August 1985, a very worrying turn of events whereby Cook physically dismantled the silencer (SJ/1)...

He separated the inner and outer component parts of 'it' and rather disturbingly creates a distinctive gap between the removed metal end cap, top washer, and the first half a dozen or so internal baffle plates...

The remaining internal baffle plates remaining compacted...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 13, 2018, 11:44:AM
He separated the inner and outer component parts of 'it' and rather disturbingly creates a distinctive gap between the removed metal end cap, top washer, and the first half a dozen or so internal baffle plates...

The remaining internal baffle plates remaining compacted...

Cook then rebuilds the silencer he has interfered with, and proceeds to screw 'it' directly onto the external thread on the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, a barrel end which was photographed in very close proximity to leaking blood on Sheila Caffell's neck, throat and face!

On the following day (30th August 1985, Cook arranges for the silencer and rifle to be sent separately (one not screwed into the other) to the Lab'...

The anshuzt rifle is submitted on that date, as exhibit DRH/15 (Lab' item number 18), whereas the silencer that went to the Lab' on the same occasion was submitted as exhibit 'DRB/1' (Lab' item number 23)..

When the silencer had previously been taken to the Lab' by DI Cook on the 13th August 1985, it had the exhibit reference 'SJ/1' (Lab' item number 22)..

The silencer which was exhibited during the trial, had a totally different exhibit reference of 'DRB/1' ( Lab' item number 22), Court Exhibit number 9...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:03:AM
Cook then rebuilds the silencer he has interfered with, and proceeds to screw 'it' directly onto the external thread on the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, a barrel end which was photographed in very close proximity to leaking blood on Sheila Caffell's neck, throat and face!

On the following day (30th August 1985, Cook arranges for the silencer and rifle to be sent separately (one not screwed into the other) to the Lab'...

The anshuzt rifle is submitted on that date, as exhibit DRH/15 (Lab' item number 18), whereas the silencer that went to the Lab' on the same occasion was submitted as exhibit 'DRB/1' (Lab' item number 23)..

When the silencer had previously been taken to the Lab' by DI Cook on the 13th August 1985, it had the exhibit reference 'SJ/1' (Lab' item number 22)..

The silencer which was exhibited during the trial, had a totally different exhibit reference of 'DRB/1' ( Lab' item number 22), Court Exhibit number 9...

The jury were never informed about any of the problems regarding 'the' silencer having contradictory exhibit references, and Lab' item numbers, at different stages (the full list is SBJ/1, SJ/1(22), DB/1(23), and DRB/1(22), with yet another silencer thrown in for good measure on the 11th September 1985 by Ann Eaton, a silencer which is believed to have originally been allocated the exhibit references of either AE/1, or CAE/1 the silencer AE/1 - CAE/1, believed to be the DRB/1 silencer, which was fingerprinted by DS Eastwood and DS Davison on 13th September 1985, and not submitted to Huntingdon Lab' until the 20th September 1985 for the very first time! Of course what this means is that the court which tried Bamber for the five murders were decieved into believing that the blood group results obtained from an examination of blood supposedly discovered inside silencer DRB/1 at the Lab' on 12th September 1985, cannot any longer be tenable, or reliable, because to cut to the chase, silencer DRB/1 wasn't at the Lab' at Huntingdon on or by that date, and would not arrive there until over a week afterwards (20th September 1985)!

The blood group evidence which was the crowning glory in the prosecution's case, was / is nothing but a fabrication, introduced for the sole purpose of trapping Jeremy Bamber into being convicted as the murderer!

The very first time that silencer AE/1-CAE/1, DRB/1, was examined at Huntingdon Lab' was on the 25th September 1985, by which time fragments of red paint which were found to be ingrained into the knurled pattern around the outer circumference of the silencers end cap were noted for the very first time, flakes of crushed red paint which by 2nd October 1985 were matched to a paint sample (RWC/1) taken by DI Cook from the kitchen mantelpiece on 14th August 1985...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:26:AM
The jury were never informed about any of the problems regarding 'the' silencer having contradictory exhibit references, and Lab' item numbers, at different stages (the full list is SBJ/1, SJ/1(22), DB/1(23), and DRB/1(22), with yet another silencer thrown in for good measure on the 11th September 1985 by Ann Eaton, a silencer which is believed to have originally been allocated the exhibit references of either AE/1, or CAE/1 the silencer AE/1 - CAE/1, believed to be the DRB/1 silencer, which was fingerprinted by DS Eastwood and DS Davison on 13th September 1985, and not submitted to Huntingdon Lab' until the 20th September 1985 for the very first time! Of course what this means is that the court which tried Bamber for the five murders were decieved into believing that the blood group results obtained from an examination of blood supposedly discovered inside silencer DRB/1 at the Lab' on 12th September 1985, cannot any longer be tenable, or reliable, because to cut to the chase, silencer DRB/1 wasn't at the Lab' at Huntingdon on or by that date, and would not arrive there until over a week afterwards (20th September 1985)!

The blood group evidence which was the crowning glory in the prosecution's case, was / is nothing but a fabrication, introduced for the sole purpose of trapping Jeremy Bamber into being convicted as the murderer!

The very first time that silencer AE/1-CAE/1, DRB/1, was examined at Huntingdon Lab' was on the 25th September 1985, by which time fragments of red paint which were found to be ingrained into the knurled pattern around the outer circumference of the silencers end cap were noted for the very first time, flakes of crushed red paint which by 2nd October 1985 were matched to a paint sample (RWC/1) taken by DI Cook from the kitchen mantelpiece on 14th August 1985...

Of course, DI Cook handed to DS Davidson (SOCO) at the scene on 8th August 1985, a paint sample 'RC/1' in connection with some red paint that had been discovered ingrained onto the barrel end of a gun which had been found downstairs inside the farmhouse (this was spoken by DS Davidson to the COLP investigators during a police interview they had with him under caution) COLP queried whether Davidson was referring to some red paint which had been found ingrained onto the end of a silencer by that stage (8th August 1985), but Davidson made it absolutely clear that he was talking about paint which had been found on the end of a guns barrel at that time, not a silencer...

Cook denied taking a paint sample 'RC/1' at the scene on 8th August 1985, but either he was lying or DS Davidson was...

I believe DS Davidson's account, but distrust anything that Cook had involvement with, particularly the silencer(s), and the blood and paint evidence associated with and to the silencer(s), Cook certainly had a hand in getting the dodgy silencer (DRB/1 (22) Court Exhibit no.9) evidence accepted which bolstered up the prosecution's case...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:39:AM
Also deeply involved in the dodgy silencer, blood and paint associated with 'it' was PI Miller, who encourage different witnesses to alter exhibit references relating to the silencer in their witness statements as part of the plan to try and merge all the different silencers, into a single one, under the exhibit reference of DRB/1 (22) Court Exhibit No.9...

Everyone was fooled by this con trick - the defence, the court, the Jury, the trial judge, the public. It was a deception which involved a small group of corrupt individuals who successfully kept the truth regarding the use of at least two different silencers, Dody blood group evidence, and some red paint from the kitchen aga at the scene linked to a series of scratch marks, some of which had as we now know been made by the barrel end of a guns barrel coming into contact with it (and certainly not a silencer)...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:48:AM
Another rather intriguing piece of previously undisclosed evidence concerns a report made by DI Cook address to DCS Ainsley, where Cook makes mention of that fact that it was an established scientific fact, that where blood is exposed to the harmful Cyanoacrylate fumes used in Superglue treatment, it can have an adverse effect on any blood group results obtained, but Cook pointed out that this did not apply in the instant case, because the blood results had been obtained from the blood said to have be found inside the silencer, prior to the silencer in question being exposed to the harmful Cyanoacrylate fumes used in the fingerprint process...

Cook lied...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:54:AM
Another rather intriguing piece of previously undisclosed evidence concerns a report made by DI Cook address to DCS Ainsley, where Cook makes mention of that fact that it was an established scientific fact, that where blood is exposed to the harmful Cyanoacrylate fumes used in Superglue treatment, it can have an adverse effect on any blood group results obtained, but Cook pointed out that this did not apply in the instant case, because the blood results had been obtained from the blood said to have be found inside the silencer, prior to the silencer in question being exposed to the harmful Cyanoacrylate fumes used in the fingerprint process...

Cook lied...

For a start, DCS Ainsley did not take over control of the investigation until either on or about the 7th September 1985. With this in mind, Cook couldn't have submitted that report to him any time before that date...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 11:01:AM
For a start, DCS Ainsley did not take over control of the investigation until either on or about the 7th September 1985. With this in mind, Cook couldn't have submitted that report to him any time before that date...

Secondly, the blood was supposedly found inside the silencer (DB/1)23, which had been sent to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 30th August 1985, (on the 12th September 1985, when the ballistics expert, Fletcher, dismantled 'it'), which fell after Cook had exposed the silencer 'SJ/1' (22) to Superglue treatment, which he completed on the 23rd August 1985 at Sandridge police research and development centre - anyone can easily see that the silencer with the blood inside it had been exposed to the harmful effects of Cyanoacrylate fumes, long before the ballistic expert Fletcher found the blood inside the silencer (12th September 1985), since the 23rd August 1985 clearly fell long before the 12th September 1985!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 11:10:AM
Secondly, the blood was supposedly found inside the silencer (DB/1)23, which had been sent to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 30th August 1985, (on the 12th September 1985, when the ballistics expert, Fletcher, dismantled 'it'), which fell after Cook had exposed the silencer 'SJ/1' (22) to Superglue treatment, which he completed on the 23rd August 1985 at Sandridge police research and development centre - anyone can easily see that the silencer with the blood inside it had been exposed to the harmful effects of Cyanoacrylate fumes, long before the ballistic expert Fletcher found the blood inside the silencer (12th September 1985), since the 23rd August 1985 clearly fell long before the 12th September 1985!

However, it still remains a possibility that what Cook was saying in his report addressed to DCS Ainsley, regarding the fact that the blood had been found inside the silencer before the silencer was exposed to Cyanoacrylate fuming, by drawing upon the fact that Ann Eaton had handed over to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985, a second silencer (AE/1 - CAE/1, which ultimately became DRB/1), since this silencer was not fingerprinted by the Cyanoacrylate fuming method by DS Eastwood and DS Davison until the 13th September 1985 ( the day after Fletcher had discovered the blood inside the other silencer (DB/1) at the Lab' already...

The second silencer (DRB/1) was not submitted to Huntingdon Lab' for the very first time until 20th September 1985, the blood could hardly have been found inside it at the Lab' on an occasion which fell some 9 days prior to this / that...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 11:22:AM
Thus far, up to and including the occasion when Cook submitted the damning report to DCS Ainsley, highlighting the adverse effects of Cyanoacrylate fumes to certain scientific processes, including blood grouping, it appears that Essex police sought to try and deliberately conceal any information about the handing over of the second silencer (DRB/1) by Ann Eaton to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985, and instead treating 'it' as though it had been the same silencer which police had submitted to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 30th August 1985, under the guise of exhibit DB/1...

By adopting this deception, the Lab' records would show that Fletcher discovered the crucial blood inside 'the' silencer, on the 12th September 1985, and that on the very same date that blood expert John Hayward took possession of the said silencer and blood to try and obtain blood group results! The fact that DS Eastwood and DS Davison did not fingerprint the silencer by way of Cyanoacrylate fuming until the following day (13th September 1985), fell a day after the blood had been recovered in the other silencer (12th September 1985) - it all boiled down to a simple case of those involved treating all the different silencers as the same one, they simply tried to merge all the events involving mention of a silencer, into one silencer, when there was clearly two different ones!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 11:41:AM
Thus far, up to and including the occasion when Cook submitted the damning report to DCS Ainsley, highlighting the adverse effects of Cyanoacrylate fumes to certain scientific processes, including blood grouping, it appears that Essex police sought to try and deliberately conceal any information about the handing over of the second silencer (DRB/1) by Ann Eaton to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985, and instead treating 'it' as though it had been the same silencer which police had submitted to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 30th August 1985, under the guise of exhibit DB/1...

By adopting this deception, the Lab' records would show that Fletcher discovered the crucial blood inside 'the' silencer, on the 12th September 1985, and that on the very same date that blood expert John Hayward took possession of the said silencer and blood to try and obtain blood group results! The fact that DS Eastwood and DS Davison did not fingerprint the silencer by way of Cyanoacrylate fuming until the following day (13th September 1985), fell a day after the blood had been recovered in the other silencer (12th September 1985) - it all boiled down to a simple case of those involved treating all the different silencers as the same one, they simply tried to merge all the events involving mention of a silencer, into one silencer, when there was clearly two different ones!

Mike. You have a copy of Cooks handwritten COLP notes that holds key info on this subject. Would you mind re-uploading them?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 03:55:PM
Mike. You have a copy of Cooks handwritten COLP notes that holds key info on this subject. Would you mind re-uploading them?

I do have a copy of Cooks handwritten notes to COLP which I will try to upload this evening in their entirety..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 04:03:PM
I do have a copy of Cooks handwritten notes to COLP which I will try to upload this evening in their entirety..

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 04:41:PM
The blood group evidence(A, EAP BA, AK1 and Hp2-1) obtained from examination of blood on 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985, found inside one of the silencers (DB/1) 23 by the 12th September 1985, could not have been present in the second silencer DRB/1 (22), because the second silencer was not submitted to the Lab' at Huntingdon until the 20th September 1985, which becomes an impossibility. Similarly, the red paint from the scratched kitchen aga was present on the second silencer (DRB/1) 22, only received at the Lab' on that date, and therefore could not also have been present on the first silencer (DB/1) 23 recieved at the Lab, at Huntingdon on the 30th August 1985, otherwise there would have existed red paint from the kitchen mantelpiece on the two different silencers (DRB/1 (22), and (DB/1) 23 ) - how could two different silencers have been fitted to the same gun barrel which supposedly got scratched during an altercation between the shooter and Neville Bamber in the kitchen prior to Neville Bamber being killed off?

Furthermore, the claim that Sheila Caffell's unique blood was found inside the second silencer (DRB/1) 22, by default, and which 'was' found to be present inside the first silencer (DB/1) 23, produces a situation whereby on the face of it, Sheila Caffell's blood has been associated with being inside two different silencers, but if the shooting dead of Sheila Caffell was by way of a one gun crime with the anshuzt rifle being the gun in question that was used to shoot her dead, how did both silencers end up on the end of the same guns barrel when Sheila was shot? Why would the shooter have used two different silencers on the same gun to shoot Sheila dead?

Whoever shot and killed Sheila Caffell, could on the face of it have used one silencer when they shot Sheila on the first occasion, and that they either switched silencers so that by the time it came to the second occasion when Sheila got shot the second silencer was fitted to the same gun, or alternatively, the second silencer was fitted to the barrell of a second rifle which fired the second shot!

The only other explanation is that the blood group evidence, supposedly found to be present in one (DRB/1) 22 silencer, or the other (DB/1) 23, was a fabrication, and no matter but which way you choose to believe in, the evidence does not appear to sit well without some doubt or concern or other nagging in the back of the mind...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 07:55:PM

I believe the events transpired as follows.

1: Nevill calls Jeremy for help from the downstairs kitchen.
2: Sheila enters the main bedroom and begins fireing the five non fatal shots at June Bamber.
3: Nevill abruptly ends the conversation on the phone and runs upstairs.
4: After fireing five shots into June. Sheila realises Nevile is on his way up.
5: Sheila then pivots herself to aim the gun towards the stairs.
6: June then gets out of bed to try and escape into the box room.
7: Sheila then fires the last four shots in the magazine at Nevill.
8: Nevill now injured retreats back to the kitchen and Sheila goes after him.
9: June is now on the other end of the bedroom a few feet from the box room.
10: With Sheila's attention turned to Nevill. June decides to go after her to try and help Nevill.
11: June collapses in shock and dies when she gets to the hallway door.


IIRC Jeremy states he left the magazine "Almost full" This tallies up with the nine shots described above.
All nine shots have effectively neutralized both adults and there is now nothing to stop Sheila from reloading, inflicting more overkill shots and of course shooting the twins.

The above senario fits all the physical evidence thus gives me yet another reason (among many others) for why I dont believe Nevile called the police. There is simply no realistic way to have Nevill making two urgent calls 10 minutes apart.


"The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard."

Further explains the initail 9 shot volley.
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 08:53:PM
Thanks Mike.

Here is a true unsigned copy of a 2nd version of Cooks COLP statement, undated, consisting of 39 pages...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 09:13:PM
Continued:-
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 09:24:PM
I will post a copy of Cooks 39 page witness statement here, signed by him and DS 928 Young, dated, 25th September 1991...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 09:37:PM
Thanks for the uploads but its not what I was refering to. What you need to re-upload are these. But in a better resolution so we can read them.


Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 14, 2018, 10:04:PM
Thanks for the uploads but its not what I was refering to. What you need to re-upload are these. But in a better resolution so we can read them.

Ok, I will have to locate them first though...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 06:16:AM
Ok, I will have to locate them first though...

I am still checking (6.17am, Thursday)..
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: David1819 on November 15, 2018, 07:38:AM
I am still checking (6.17am, Thursday)..

The front page states

INTERVIEW NOTES

R W COOK  17.09.91




Cheers Mike  :)
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 12:02:PM
The front page states

INTERVIEW NOTES

R W COOK  17.09.91




Cheers Mike  :)

Going through files still looking...

Whilst searching I came across Ann Eaton's 'notes' she wrote on the day of the shootings (7 August 1985), where she records the position of the victims bodies as told to her by police on the first morning of the investigation into the shootings:-

'Sheila on bed Bible on chest. Gun beside her shot under chin'..

In these notes, Ann Eaton records the fact that Neville was found shot downstairs in kitchen near scuttle, twins were shot in their beds, and June was found shot near her bedroom door, whereas elsewhere she has the bodies of June and Sheila laid on top of the bed. Nevertheless, the position of Sheila's body was on the top of the bed, and there was a Bible on her chest, with the gun beside her body, she having been shot under the chin...

She could only have known this by being told by DS Jones and DC Clark who had already been to the crime scene prior to coming with Jeremy to his cottage for the purpose of taking a witness statement from him...

Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed when Jones and Clark visited the main bedroom crime scene, only to be moved by police (for whatever reason) onto the bedroom floor, and her body staged as a suicide there, in possession of the rifle, with the Bible which had earlier been on the bed, now resting against the upper outside of her right arm!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 01:34:PM
COLP discovered that three film negatives consisting of 30 crime scene photographs were missing from the photography evidence, and they found out that ACC Simpson had confiscated these, which he used infrequently during training exercises. These missing 30 crime scene photographs included pictures of Sheila Caffell's body laid on top of the bed, both with and without a Bible on her chest, and also with the rifle laying alongside her body on the bed, and removed from her body altogether, prior to her being shot on the 2nd occasion after her body was moved onto the bedroom floor, and subsequently staged by cops as a suicide with her in possession of the rifle!

When PC Bird created the photographic record to be used in the case, these three strips of negative film were not included in it - not surprisingly since it would have proven that the cops staged Sheika's body on the bedroom floor as a suicide, not anyone else!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 01:46:PM
The three strips of photographic negatives which ACC Simpson confiscated could individually and collectively secure Jeremy Bambers liberty, proving once and for all, that he did not shoot dead his sister and stage her death there on the bedroom floor as a suicide - since, how could he have played any role in the migration of his sister's body from its position of being laid on top of the bed in the parents bedroom at a time when she had only been shot once and she had a Bible on her chest with the rifle resting on the bed next to her body, and 'she then subsequently end up on the same bedroom floor', in possession of the rifle  with a second bullet entry wound to her neck, and the Bible which was originally on her chest, was now resting against the outside edge of her upper right arm?
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 02:06:PM
The three strips of photographic negatives which ACC Simpson confiscated could individually and collectively secure Jeremy Bambers liberty, proving once and for all, that he did not shoot dead his sister and stage her death there on the bedroom floor as a suicide - since, how could he have played any role in the migration of his sister's body from its position of being laid on top of the bed in the parents bedroom at a time when she had only been shot once and she had a Bible on her chest with the rifle resting on the bed next to her body, and 'she then subsequently end up on the same bedroom floor', in possession of the rifle  with a second bullet entry wound to her neck, and the Bible which was originally on her chest, was now resting against the outside edge of her upper right arm?

Ewen Smith was provided with access to these previously missing 30 crime scene photographs on the proviso that he should not divulge their content to anyone else! He received access to these and all the other photographs at the time he was about to become a CCRC Commissioner, and I visited his office in Birmingham and I had an opportunity to browse through them, and inadvertently remove one which showed Sheila's body laid on top of her parents bed, minus the gun and Bible, at the time she had only been shot just the once! Essex police know that what I am saying is true, the Home Office, and the Prison Service know that what I am saying is true, because they confiscated the photograph in question when I posted it in, to Jeremy Bamber at HMP Full Sutton, near York. They confiscated the letter I wrote accompanying the photograph as well, because in it I described how I had come into possession of the photograph, and the fact that ordinarily I shouldn't have seen it because it was released to Ewen Smith by the CCRC, amongst the 100's of other photographs on trust...

I now realise that the reason why I wasn't charged with stealing it, was because my intention was not to permanently deprive anyone of it, I took it to give to Jeremy, he deserved to know the truth. The authorities couldn't justify withholding that photograph, or the other 29 under pii, because it would bring the Criminal Justice System into disrepute!

Essex police shot and killed Sheila Caffell sometime after 'that' photograph of her on the bed had been taken. Sheila didn't shoot herself, and Jeremy and his team will never be able to establish that or prove it. If Sheila had shot herself after 'that' photograph of her on the bed had been taken by Oakey / Henderson, then the cops would have willingly said so. She didn't"t shoot herself, she was shot and killed in a bizzarre accident, which should have been avoided. Hence why ACC Simpson confiscated those three film negative strips consisting of 30 crime scene photographs which cover the circumstances of how and why this particular part of the overall tragedy occurred...

In a nutshell, nobody checked to see if there was still a loaded bullet in the breech of the anshuzt rifle when they brought it to Sheila's body as part of a gauging exercise (Informatives) once her body had been lifted onto the bedroom floor from the bed - the rifle discharged the shot which killed her as a result of the muzzle end of the guns barrel was in a contact position with her neck and they placed her fingers on the trigger mechanism and decided to see whether or not she was able to activate the trigger....

BANG!!!

Sheila died at this point!
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 16, 2018, 09:45:AM
Thanks for the uploads but its not what I was refering to. What you need to re-upload are these. But in a better resolution so we can read them.

I have finally located the handwritten notes in question - which I will try to post up again...
Title: Re: Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!
Post by: mike tesko on November 16, 2018, 09:46:AM
I have finally located the handwritten notes in question - which I will try to post up again...