Jeremy Bamber Forum
OTHER HIGH PROFILE CASES => Other high profile cases => Topic started by: Lucy522 on November 27, 2017, 07:19:PM
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The Essex Boys murders,
Are the right men in prison?
I don't think they are.
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No Lucy.Steele and Whomes are innocent.
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I have to agree lookout, think it's a massive case of wrong place wrong time,
There's no real evidence again them apart from Darren Nicholls who had a whole lot to gain by putting them away.
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Steele and Whomes are in a similar position to Jeremy. Appeals turned down,etc.,nobody listening to their pleas of innocence. Steele's 3rd appeal was last year,but was turned down.
Do they know for sure that all three were shot and not two and a suicide ?
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Steele and Whomes are in a similar position to Jeremy. Appeals turned down,etc.,nobody listening to their pleas of innocence. Steele's 3rd appeal was last year,but was turned down.
Do they know for sure that all three were shot and not two and a suicide ?
Oh come on Lookout it’s not about Jeremy on this thread, go back upstairs ;D
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They all had multiple gunshot wounds have you seen the autopsy photos?
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Steele and Whomes are in a similar position to Jeremy. Appeals turned down,etc.,nobody listening to their pleas of innocence. Steele's 3rd appeal was last year,but was turned down.
Do they know for sure that all three were shot and not two and a suicide ?
yes like jb there have always maintained their innocence.all 3 were shot dead lookout because police found no weapons in car to indicate that 1 of them shot the other 2 than turned the gun on himself.as i said in a past post craig dropped his girlfriend off and told her ,he was going to look at a landing site with micky and the boys,its in her police statement.its true after the bad cannabis deal and threats to return the money were made.they made a trip to amsterdam and collected the money in full.but steele never forgot or forgave the 3 for the threats.so a trap was set knowing the gangs greed would insure success .the right men are in the nick.but they arent talking the other 3 will never talk again ;)
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yes like jb there have always maintained their innocence.all 3 were shot dead lookout because police found no weapons in car to indicate that 1 of them shot the other 2 than turned the gun on himself.as i said in a past post craig dropped his girlfriend off and told her ,he was going to look at a landing site with micky and the boys,its in her police statement.its true after the bad cannabis deal and threats to return the money were made.they made a trip to amsterdam and collected the money in full.but steele never forgot or forgave the 3 for the threats.so a trap was set knowing the gangs gread would insure success .the right men are in the nick.but they arent talking the other 3 will never talk again ;)
Wasn't one of them giving tates missus one when he was inside as well?
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Oh come on Lookout it’s not about Jeremy on this thread, go back upstairs ;D
I wouldn't mind,I brushed those stairs on my way down ::) ;D Might as well stick the kettle on.
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very cleverly set trap.there is a shooting club near the area of the deaths so shotgun bangs would be normal occurrence .no one would call 999 to report gunshots.very cunning
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very cleverly set trap.there is a shooting club near the area of the deaths so shotgun bangs would be normal occurrence .no one would call 999 to report gunshots.very cunning
Never heard about that Sami
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Never heard about that Sami
yes lucy some sort of outdoor pheasant shooting.as for who was giving who one ,i wouldnt know ;)
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also it was cell mast records and whomes own words that put him in a pub carpark less than a mile away from the murder scene on that night.he claims he was picking up darrens broken down car
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yes lucy some sort of outdoor pheasant shooting.as for who was giving who one ,i wouldnt know ;)
Lol in rise of the footsoldier I'm sure one of them was lookonh after her a bit to much while he was inside, there is no concrete evidence against them though and Nicholls had a lot to gain by complying with the police
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Wasn't one of them giving tates missus one when he was inside as well?
Ive just watched a bit of a trailer and it says something about this Lucy, who though I don’t know.
Where near A12 did it happen?
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Lol in rise of the footsoldier I'm sure one of them was lookonh after her a bit to much while he was inside, there is no concrete evidence against them though and Nicholls had a lot to gain by complying with the police
i agree about no direct evidence ,also agree that nicholls is a nasty piece of work he was looking at a 5 stretch ended up doing no bird at all. workhouse lane
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I wouldn't mind,I brushed those stairs on my way down ::) ;D Might as well stick the kettle on.
;D ;D ;D
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i think a person who has handled a shotgun before could take all 3 out within a couple of seconds.semi auto shotgun.also the door behind rolf was definitely left open by whoever exited the range rover
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i think a person who has handled a shotgun before could take all 3 out within a couple of seconds.semi auto shotgun.also the door behind rolf was definitely left open by whoever exited the range rover
Yes and all close range shots as well so couldn't really miss made a hell of a mess though, was Nicholls car ever forensically tested I'm guessing the shooter would of been covered in bits of blood etc I wonder which one went first?
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Yes and all close range shots as well so couldn't really miss made a hell of a mess though, was Nicholls car ever forensically tested I'm guessing the shooter would of been covered in bits of blood etc I wonder which one went first?
iam not sure now lucy cause it was years ago when i was reading up on the case and my memory is terrible .i think it might have been found months later with no evidence in it.most definitely rolf he had the car running and in gear held by the footbrake so if he would have heard the shots to tate and tucker he would have slammed the acelerater down crashed through the fence and away .range rovers weigh about a ton so would have smashed through the gate.thats why the door behind rold had to be left open and was open.no windows were smashed except the back passenger one ,where tate had his head
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iam not sure now lucy cause it was years ago when i was reading up on the case and my memory is terrible .i think it might have been found months later with no evidence in it.most definitely rolf he had the car running and in gear held by the footbrake so if he would have heard the shots to tate and tucker he would have slammed the acelerater down crashed through the fence and away .range rovers weigh about a ton so would have smashed through the gate.thats why the door behind rold had to be left open and was open.no windows were smashed except the back passenger one ,where tate had his head
He was still holding his phone as well, I think it was rolfe then Tucker then tate as tate looked like he was trying to get away not caught unawares, I wonder though if there was more than one gun used as rolfe and Tucker look like they were caught completely unaware, I feel like whoever it was wanted tate to know what was coming if that makes sense
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The Essex Boys murders,
Are the right men in prison?
I don't think they are.
How much longer have they got to do in prison? I can remember now how that Leah Betts died from the drugs they traced back to Tucker, her father was a police officer. 22 years since it happened on Dec 6th. Going to try and watch the films, love these sort of stories.
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He was still holding his phone as well, I think it was rolfe then Tucker then tate as tate looked like he was trying to get away not caught unawares, I wonder though if there was more than one gun used as rolfe and Tucker look like they were caught completely unaware, I feel like whoever it was wanted tate to know what was coming if that makes sense
totally agree lucy,tucker must have heard the shot to rolf and turned his head hence his first shot instead of hitting him in the head. it got his jaw n mouth after that there was no time to aim cause tate must have seen the shots to the pair in front.so he got it in the body first.imo
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He was still holding his phone as well, I think it was rolfe then Tucker then tate as tate looked like he was trying to get away not caught unawares, I wonder though if there was more than one gun used as rolfe and Tucker look like they were caught completely unaware, I feel like whoever it was wanted tate to know what was coming if that makes sense
This is how someone describes it Lucy?
the gunman shot Rolfe in the back of the head. The gunman fired at Tucker, punching a 6.5 cm hole in his lower jaw. Tate was in the back seat.
The gunman finished off Tucker, then Rolfe, and then turned to his accomplice and invited him to shoot Tate. Walking around the back of the vehicle, the second gunman aimed the shotgun at Tate, who was by now curled up in the foetal position and made no attempt to defend himself. They shot him in the chest rather than the head. He'd been the catalyst of all the trouble that had been caused and so it was deemed essential that he should watch the murder of his friends before he was executed. Their bodies were discovered by a farmer the next morning.
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totally agree lucy,tucker must have heard the shot to rolf and turned his head hence his first shot instead of hitting him in the head. it got his jaw n mouth after that there was no time to aim cause tate must have seen the shots to the pair in front.so he got it in the body first.imo
I think they wanted tate to be shitting himself about what was coming, it wouldn't surprise me if they shot him in the body first so he could stay alive for a bit and suffer
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This is how someone describes it Lucy?
the gunman shot Rolfe in the back of the head. The gunman fired at Tucker, punching a 6.5 cm hole in his lower jaw. Tate was in the back seat.
The gunman finished off Tucker, then Rolfe, and then turned to his accomplice and invited him to shoot Tate. Walking around the back of the vehicle, the second gunman aimed the shotgun at Tate, who was by now curled up in the foetal position and made no attempt to defend himself. They shot him in the chest rather than the head. He'd been the catalyst of all the trouble that had been caused and so it was deemed essential that he should watch the murder of his friends before he was executed. Their bodies were discovered by a farmer the next morning.
I'd agree with that justice, which film are you going to watch?
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I'd agree with that justice, which film are you going to watch?
Ive just checked on Amazon and Netflix, I wanted to watch the Essex boys first then the others if that makes sense.
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How much longer have they got to do in prison? I can remember now how that Leah Betts died from the drugs they traced back to Tucker, her father was a police officer. 22 years since it happened on Dec 6th. Going to try and watch the films, love these sort of stories.
they got life 15 years justice.not sure if they admit their guilt they will be released or like jb its been changed to whole life sentence.essex boys is the best in my opinion justice
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I’ve just read these two articles on it,
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/5gjqka/bernard-omahoney-why-im-finally-telling-the-truth-about-the-britains-most-notorious-gangland-murder
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/essex-boys-murder-20th-anniversary-convicted-hitman-will-never-give-up-fight-1-4337915
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they got life 15 years justice.not sure if they admit their guilt they will be released or like jb its been changed to whole life sentence.essex boys is the best in my opinion justice
Its a good case and there is a lot more to it than I thought, I’m going to watch Essex Boys tomorrow I think Sami.
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you will love it justice sean bean plays tate brilliantly there are lots of people who think bernie is just cashing in on the essex boys murder me included.he calls them mates but he was not part of they firm.in one of tate's girlfriends statements she warns mickey not to go on any trips with tate.as tate had told her that mickey was going up north and (not coming back)
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you will love it justice sean bean plays tate brilliantly there are lots of people who think bernie is just cashing in on the essex boys murder me included.he calls them mates but he was not part of they firm.in one of tate's girlfriends statements she warns mickey not to go on any trips with tate.as tate had told her that mickey was going up north and (not coming back)
Yea he seems to call them cowards now they dead, wonder if he would have if they were still alive?
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I don't think they are allowed out until they admit their guilt, they can't get an appeal,
Did you read about Mahoney finding a shotgun cartridge when he went to visit the scene he picked it up and threw it as his prints were on it...
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I don't think they are allowed out until they admit their guilt, they can't get an appeal,
Did you read about Mahoney finding a shotgun cartridge when he went to visit the scene he picked it up and threw it as his prints were on it...
yes lucy but one has to take what he says with a pinch of salt.on his site he was always trying to drop hints that he was involved .the cartridge being one of them hints.he had nothing to do with it.his site was good source of info police statements and crime scene photos.
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yes lucy but one has to take what he says with a pinch of salt.on his site he was always trying to drop hints that he was involved .the cartridge being one of them hints.he had nothing to do with it.his site was good source of info police statements and crime scene photos.
I always found that a really bizarre thing to say, I just think if they were guilty they'd of admitted it as they would of been out in 15 years?
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I always found that a really bizarre thing to say, I just think if they were guilty they'd of admitted it as they would of been out in 15 years?
i think its taboo to confess now.it seems to happen quite alot people who are doing and have done long sentences without any direct proof against them.will keep their mouths shut ,plus lucy theres always their safety to think about.tucker tate rolf may have been scumbags but still they do have family and friends who might like a few words with them.bernie had no info as to how the 3 were shot ,he just studied the crime seen photos and what the police were saying and came up with his theory .its easy to work out that rolf was the first after that take your pick from tate n tucker
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I don't think they are allowed out until they admit their guilt, they can't get an appeal,
Did you read about Mahoney finding a shotgun cartridge when he went to visit the scene he picked it up and threw it as his prints were on it...
I don't like Mahoney at all,he seems to have too much to say for himself.
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I don't like Mahoney at all,he seems to have too much to say for himself.
Yes I gathered that Lookout.
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i think its taboo to confess now.it seems to happen quite alot people who are doing and have done long sentences without any direct proof against them.will keep their mouths shut ,plus lucy theres always their safety to think about.tucker tate rolf may have been scumbags but still they do have family and friends who might like a few words with them.bernie had no info as to how the 3 were shot ,he just studied the crime seen photos and what the police were saying and came up with his theory .its easy to work out that rolf was the first after that take your pick from tate n tucker
Rolfe and Tucker were shot from right rear door. Tate was shot in the head by another gunman through the left window. It all happened very quickly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1CHo3kz3TyI/mqdefault.jpg)
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Oh Dear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPsLEHImzk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPsLEHImzk)
Rise of the cunt 3
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Oh Dear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPsLEHImzk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPsLEHImzk)
Rise of the cunt 3
Theres not three of you about is there ;D ;D ;D
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Steele and Whomes are in a similar position to Jeremy. Appeals turned down,etc.,nobody listening to their pleas of innocence. Steele's 3rd appeal was last year,but was turned down.
Do they know for sure that all three were shot and not two and a suicide ?
Someone tell the half-wit on red that this isn't a " gut-feeling " that I have about the above. It should learn to read before passing remarks---------so should its other half-witted mates !! 3 Stooges ::) ::)Sick
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Rise of the cunt 3 🤣😋 :))
Not far wrong, they keep rehashing this and the film's get worse every time
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Rolfe and Tucker were shot from right rear door. Tate was shot in the head by another gunman through the left window. It all happened very quickly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1CHo3kz3TyI/mqdefault.jpg)
What a mess they were in hey, rolfes eyeball is practically hanging out,
I don't know why anyone would want that car must of took a bloody good valeter to get the brains and piss off it all
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Rolfe and Tucker were shot from right rear door. Tate was shot in the head by another gunman through the left window. It all happened very quickly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1CHo3kz3TyI/mqdefault.jpg)
tate was also shot in the liver.so it could have gone any of 2 ways the gunman at the rear open door shoots craig than tate in liver and tucker in jaw ,or tucker in the jaw than tate in the live .we dont know for sure so its not worth arguing just take each others opinions.correct that tate got the headshot through rear door glass
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I don't like Mahoney at all,he seems to have too much to say for himself.
totally agree lookout.he's in it for the money he has 1 or 2 photos of himself with tate and tucker which he repeatedly shows around the internet fooling people into believing his was part of essex boys firm had he really been on the firm he would not be here now but with his mates 6ft under.a mother of a shooting victim that died accused him of making money from her son's death by writing stories on the matter,her son died ages ago but bernie cant leave it alone ang keeps writing bringing back painful memories for the mother
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Theres not three of you about is there ;D ;D ;D
steady justice. :)) :)) :)) :))
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totally agree lookout.he's in it for the money he has 1 or 2 photos of himself with tate and tucker which he repeatedly shows around the internet fooling people into believing his was part of essex boys firm had he really been on the firm he would not be here now but with his mates 6ft under.a mother of a shooting victim that died accused him of making money from her son's death by writing stories on the matter,her son died ages ago but bernie cant leave it alone ang keeps writing bringing back painful memories for the mother
It's strange that by just looking at a person you can tell what they're like.I could read him like a book.
Horrible individual.
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It's strange that by just looking at a person you can tell what they're like.I could read him like a book.
Horrible individual.
yes thats true some people just have that look about them
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In layman's terms - what's the difference between O'Mahoney and Courtney? I always get them mixed up.
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In layman's terms - what's the difference between O'Mahoney and Courtney? I always get them mixed up.
imo not much roch,both have worked with the police so can be called grasses.both tell tall stories. ;)
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imo not much roch,both have worked with the police so can be called grasses.both tell tall stories. ;)
Sami, I get the feeling certain people are 'allowed' to have such careers - because they serve a purpose.
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Sami, I get the feeling certain people are 'allowed' to have such careers - because they serve a purpose.
yes that sounds right.what makes me mad is ive seen bernie interviewing old time villains like fraser and other's who hate grasses but he gets away with.the help he gave the police with the e tablet sample was done to save his arse from prsion.ive been bought up with the code that the people you (work) with criminal friends should never be betrayed .we choose to go down the route of villainy.if you cant do the time dont do the crime the old times screws used to say
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yes that sounds right.what makes me mad is ive seen bernie interviewing old time villains like fraser and other's who hate grasses but he gets away with.the help he gave the police with the e tablet sample was done to save his arse from prsion.ive been bought up with the code that the people you (work) with criminal friends should never be betrayed .we choose to go down the route of villainy.if you cant do the time dont do the crime the old times screws used to say
His name seems a bit too prominent. Like he's got free range to pursue books, films, promotions etc.
I wonder whether he takes the approach 'dont let the facts get in the way of a good story'.
I dont know much about Whomes and Steel. They certainly look the part.
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His name seems a bit too prominent. Like he's got free range to pursue books, films, promotions etc.
I wonder whether he takes the approach 'dont let the facts get in the way of a good story'.
I dont know much about Whomes and Steel. They certainly look the part.
:)) :)) :))spot on roch,thats his approach alright.imo steel is ist division not premier league .very clever man.but there is a difference between what steel was importing 50kgs maybe 100kgs cannabis a trip and what the premier league villains import half a ton and above.whomes was a worker held a steady job
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tate was also shot in the liver.so it could have gone any of 2 ways the gunman at the rear open door shoots craig than tate in liver and tucker in jaw ,or tucker in the jaw than tate in the live .we dont know for sure so its not worth arguing just take each others opinions.correct that tate got the headshot through rear door glass
The trajectory of the liver shot suggests that Pat leaning at an angle.
Gunman A shoots Rolfe and Tucker (Bang Bang)
Tate then leans away from Gunman A from hearing the shots.
Gunman A then aims towards Tate while Gunman B comes from behind the door. Gets shot twice whatever shot comes first. (Bang Bang)
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The trajectory of the liver shot suggests that Pat leaning at an angle.
Gunman A shoots Rolfe and Tucker (Bang Bang)
Tate then leans away from Gunman A from hearing the shots.
Gunman A then aims towards Tate while Gunman B comes from behind the door. Gets shot twice whatever shot comes first. (Bang Bang)
yes david i agree thats spot on
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tate;s son must be a man now ,i wonder if he has followed his dads footsteps .hope his mother has shown him the other side of life and kept him straight.theres no doubt in my mind that if the young tate has taken the route of villainy he will be waiting for the pair to be released ;)
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I always found that a really bizarre thing to say, I just think if they were guilty they'd of admitted it as they would of been out in 15 years?
lucy another one of his hints was that he was in a hotel in rettendon less than a mile away from the murder scene ,he wrote it on his website when it was running.no one can verify this hint ;)
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Sami, I get the feeling certain people are 'allowed' to have such careers - because they serve a purpose.
I don't think your far wrong there roch
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lucy another one of his hints was that he was in a hotel in rettendon less than a mile away from the murder scene ,he wrote it on his website when it was running.no one can verify this hint ;)
Or that he was up in London when the news broke, do you think he had anything to do with it, or just wants people to keep guessing?
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Or that he was up in London when the news broke, do you think he had anything to do with it, or just wants people to keep guessing?
he had nothing to do with it.did you read a post on his site where it was said that he should be considered as the killer complete rubbish.he's just in it for the money.he had no reputation and had never done anything big when arrived in the essex area.he's only claim to fame is he knew reggie kray while in prison.he has got nipper ellis at it also .in a documenatry ellis claims he had nothing to do with it than chuckles and says i was up by rettendon (at the time of the murders)rubbish
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he had nothing to do with it.did you read a post on his site where it was said that he should be considered as the killer complete rubbish.he's just in it for the money.he had no reputation and had never done anything big when arrived in the essex area.he's only claim to fame is he knew reggie kray while in prison.he has got nipper ellis at it also .in a documenatry ellis claims he had nothing to do than chuckles and says i was up by rettendon (at the time of the murders)rubbish
Have you read nippers book sami
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Have you read nippers book sami
no lucy i dont like him at all not interested .if your friends with someone or a friend of a friend,you dont make rude and degrading words to be little them.i believe the story that was put around about how when asked by tucker's girlfriend where tony was he replied at home giving his missis one up the a--e.trying to act like a villain he got what he deserved.he has learnt from bernie writing bullshit makes money ;)
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Have you read nippers book sami
Which book is this Lucy522?
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Which book is this Lucy522?
steve i think it might be called (last man standing) also he and bernie are doing one together
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steve i think it might be called (last man standing) also he and bernie are doing one together
I don't know where to start with this one. It seems from cursory reading that the case became personal to Police after a daughter of one of them took a contaminated ecstasy tablet from a source manufactured in Amsterdam and supplied by a bouncer in Raquel's nightclub in Chelmsford, but I haven't moved on from there so far. Trying not to order anything from Amazon after learning of the disgraceful way they treat their employees.
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I don't know where to start with this one. It seems from cursory reading that the case became personal to Police after a daughter of one of them took a contaminated ecstasy tablet from a source manufactured in Amsterdam and supplied by a bouncer in Raquel's nightclub in Chelmsford, but I haven't moved on from there so far. Trying not to order anything from Amazon after learning of the disgraceful way they treat their employees.
Steve do you have an iPad or a kindle?
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Steve do you have an iPad or a kindle?
Im loving reading yours and Sami posts your right clued up, I’m going to watch them all first chance I get Lucy.
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Steve do you have an iPad or a kindle?
I prefer the book Lucy522..still in the 20th century really.
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Im loving reading yours and Sami posts your right clued up, I’m going to watch them all first chance I get Lucy.
thank you justice
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I prefer the book Lucy522..still in the 20th century really.
Steve I'm moving next week if I come across them I'll post yo you I'm sure I had muscle by Carlton leach
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thank you justice
Start with rise of the footsoldier I think it's closest to the truth personally x
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Start with rise of the footsoldier I think it's closest to the truth personally x
Its not scary is it Lucy? I get frightened looking at myself in the mirror.
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Start with rise of the footsoldier I think it's closest to the truth personally x
is that the one with 3 endings the police,steel n whomes,and canning town firm .take your pick
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Its not scary is it Lucy? I get frightened looking at myself in the mirror.
No it's very gruesome at the end though, they don't sugar coat it all,
Sami, I think the one with 3 endings is bonded by blood but I can't remember if it's that or Essex boys,
I was so shocked at what bullies they are though, they nearly killed that man for talking to tates missus overdosing him with cocaine and leaving him on the front garden, o read he ended up needing in patient therapy because it messes him up so much,
I guess karma really did come and bite them on the arse
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No it's very gruesome at the end though, they don't sugar coat it all,
Sami, I think the one with 3 endings is bonded by blood but I can't remember if it's that or Essex boys,
I was so shocked at what bullies they are though, they nearly killed that man for talking to tates missus overdosing him with cocaine and leaving him on the front garden, o read he ended up needing in patient therapy because it messes him up so much,
I guess karma really did come and bite them on the arse
Very Well said Lucy.
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The Essex Boys murders,
Are the right men in prison?
I don't think they are.
The evidence against them is rather solid.
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From a super grass.
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From a super grass.
There is a lot more to it than that. I will explain later.
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There is a lot more to it than that. I will explain later.
David, interested to hear what you have to say about it,
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From a super grass.
My thoughts exactly
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agreed darren is a supergrass who should have got a 5 for cannabis he was caught with,but its not just his word that links the 2 to the murders,theres donna jagger rolfs girlfriend in a police statment that craig told her he was going to look at a landing site with (micky)and the boys,cell masts records prove whomes was in the area the time of the murders.tates girlfriend telling police in her statment that she had told micky,what tate was saying was going to happen to him (micky is going up north and never coming back.i would like to add darren was a young man who chose to leave everthing he new and loved in the area where he grew up.him and his wife can never go back to essex to see loved one's friends family for fear of death.they have been given new id's but not a blank cheque no monthly payments from police they have to work.having done bird myself i dont know many criminals who would give all that up to avoid a 5yr sentence of which darren would probably have done 3 with remission.he was in fear of his life
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Are they any in depth books about the case that any of you have read and can suggest?
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Are they any in depth books about the case that any of you have read and can suggest?
mat theres been so many including films.brenard o mahony's site was the place i would recommend full of police statements unedited photo's of the bodies and crime seen photos but its not on the web anymore.ive not read any books just watched the films on the matter.essex boys imo is the best film to watch.maybe lucy can recommend which book to read.iam not really a bookworm
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mat theres been so many including films.brenard o mahony's site was the place i would recommend full of police statements unedited photo's of the bodies and crime seen photos but its not on the web anymore.ive not read any books just watched the films on the matter.essex boys imo is the best film to watch.maybe lucy can recommend which book to read.iam not really a bookworm
Its been amazing Sami reading your posts on this, love it mate, Lucy has started a good topic here. What did this Carlton Leach have to do with them, I’ve read he’s the only surviving member and he’s become a actor/author now? He’s a West Ham fan I think as well Sami, I was outside their ground the other week, it’s amazing around there, my son doesn’t live far from that area.
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Its been amazing Sami reading your posts on this, love it mate, Lucy has started a good topic here. What did this Carlton Leach have to do with them, I’ve read he’s the only surviving member and he’s become a actor/author now? He’s a West Ham fan I think as well Sami, I was outside their ground the other week, it’s amazing around there, my son doesn’t live far from that area.
thanks justice,the ground is awesome i hope they can stay up this season.yes carlton leach was tuckers very good friend theres a photo of them 2 in they prime one on each side of the boxer nigel benn they were his minders. i dont think is was one of the firm otherwise he wouldnt be here now.glad you mentioned him justice as he also thinks steele n whomes are the killers.tucker was a smart criminal buying a £250.000 house in early 90s the biggest mistake he made was making friends with tate.also tucker had a successful business supplying bounces to night clubs and supplying the drugs at the clubs
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thanks justice,the ground is awesome i hope they can stay up this season.yes carlton leach was tuckers very good friend theres a photo of them 2 in they prime one on each side of the boxer nigel benn they were his minders. i dont think is was one of the firm otherwise he wouldnt be here now.glad you mentioned him justice as he also thinks steele n whomes are the killers.tucker was a smart criminal buying a £250.000 house in early 90s the biggest mistake he made was making friends with tate.also tucker had a successful business supplying bounces to night clubs and supplying the drugs at the clubs
Thanks Sami, yes the ground looks great, you can walk from my sons house along Canal, had my picture took outside for son in law, he’s West Ham crazy.
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There is a lot more to it than that. I will explain later.
David, interested to hear what you have to say about it,
Darren Nicholls never actually testified that Steele and Whomes committed the murders. What he did say is that he drove them to a location near Rettendon and later received a phone call from Wholmes on his mobile to pick them up somewhere nearby.
This is all corroborated by the cell tower evidence and call times recorded by the telecom provider.
Whomes made calls to Tucker and Tate on the day of the murders.
Patricks girlfriend called him on his mobile shortly before the murders. Nicholls knew of this phone call from overhearing a conversation between Steele and Wholmes after the murders.
Not long after that phone call ended Jack Whomes mobile called Nicholls mobile. According to Nicholls. Whomes said "pick us up" this is corroborated by the telecom records showing the call was four seconds long.
Not long before the murders Patricks girlfriend told Steele that he was planning to kill him.
Nicholls also testified that when he picked them up they were both wearing gloves had guns and were also out of breath.
Police recovered a pump action shotgun at Steels address also.
When first presented with the telecom evidence, Steele and Whomes gave no explanation for them. Once all the details were released to the defence suddenly Whomes decided he was in the Wheatsheaf pub more or less down the road from the crime scene at workhouse lane. At the time of the murders. ::)
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Darren Nicholls never actually testified that Steele and Whomes committed the murders. What he did say is that he drove them to a location near Rettendon and later received a phone call from Wholmes on his mobile to pick them up somewhere nearby.
This is all corroborated by the cell tower evidence and call times recorded by the telecom provider.
Whomes made calls to Tucker and Tate on the day of the murders.
Patricks girlfriend called him on his mobile shortly before the murders. Nicholls knew of this phone call from overhearing a conversation between Steele and Wholmes after the murders.
Not long after that phone call ended Jack Whomes mobile called Nicholls mobile. According to Nicholls. Whomes said "pick us up" this is corroborated by the telecom records showing the call was four seconds long.
Not long before the murders Patricks girlfriend told Steele that he was planning to kill him.
Nicholls also testified that when he picked them up they were both wearing gloves had guns and were also out of breath.
Police recovered a pump action shotgun at Steels address also.
When first presented with the telecom evidence, Steele and Whomes gave no explanation for them. Once all the details were released to the defence suddenly Whomes decided he was in the Wheatsheaf pub more or less down the road from the crime scene at workhouse lane. At the time of the murders. ::)
Pat Tate may have been planning to kill Steele weeks or months before the murders due to other bad business dealings. However on the massacre night Tate liked Steele.
Steele had approached Tate with his proposal regarding the made up drug deal. Tate then liked Steele as he thought Steele was going to make him rich. But Steele was just setting his trap.
The 'Rise of the foot soldier' film says that Tate was planning to double cross Steele over the drugs deal, kill him & take all the money. That is probably something the film made up, but I wouldn't put it past Tate & Tucker. I doubt that Tate's girlfriend told Steele that.
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Are they any in depth books about the case that any of you have read and can suggest?
Mat, muscle is a good one by Carlton leach or if you can Google Bernard o Mahoney his site has all the police statements etc
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Pat Tate may have been planning to kill Steele weeks or months before the murders due to other bad business dealings. However on the massacre night Tate liked Steele.
Steele had approached Tate with his proposal regarding the made up drug deal. Tate then liked Steele as he thought Steele was going to make him rich. But Steele was just setting his trap.
The 'Rise of the foot soldier' film says that Tate was planning to double cross Steele over the drugs deal, kill him & take all the money. That is probably something the film made up, but I wouldn't put it past Tate & Tucker. I doubt that Tate's girlfriend told Steele that.
Tates girlfriend was sleeping with Steele wasn't She?
Nothing more dangerous to a gangster than their women with their pillow talk
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https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/5gjqka/bernard-omahoney-why-im-finally-telling-the-truth-about-the-britains-most-notorious-gangland-murder
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Tates girlfriend was sleeping with Steele wasn't She?
Nothing more dangerous to a gangster than their women with their pillow talk
If you have a source for that it would explain why Tate's girlfriend may tell Steele that.
However I'm not sure why Tate would tell his girlfriend he was planning to double cross & kill someone. Had Tate never heard of Julie Mugford ? Something that sinister would be kept between Tate, Tucker & maybe Rolfe.
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If you have a source for that it would explain why Tate's girlfriend may tell Steele that.
However I'm not sure why Tate would tell his girlfriend he was planning to double cross & kill someone. Had Tate never heard of Julie Mugford ? Something that sinister would be kept between Tate, Tucker & maybe Rolfe.
It's in the film, I can't see why it would be made up,
Tate was a violent bully she probably thought he was either talking crap or it was just day to day life with him,
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thanks justice,the ground is awesome i hope they can stay up this season.yes carlton leach was tuckers very good friend theres a photo of them 2 in they prime one on each side of the boxer nigel benn they were his minders. i dont think is was one of the firm otherwise he wouldnt be here now.glad you mentioned him justice as he also thinks steele n whomes are the killers.tucker was a smart criminal buying a £250.000 house in early 90s the biggest mistake he made was making friends with tate.also tucker had a successful business supplying bounces to night clubs and supplying the drugs at the clubs
Justice Carlton leaches book "muscle' is a good one on this topic, he seems to be the closest survivor
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Pat Tate may have been planning to kill Steele weeks or months before the murders due to other bad business dealings. However on the massacre night Tate liked Steele.
Steele had approached Tate with his proposal regarding the made up drug deal. Tate then liked Steele as he thought Steele was going to make him rich. But Steele was just setting his trap.
The 'Rise of the foot soldier' film says that Tate was planning to double cross Steele over the drugs deal, kill him & take all the money. That is probably something the film made up, but I wouldn't put it past Tate & Tucker. I doubt that Tate's girlfriend told Steele that.
have you seen essex boys adam,i think the film is more closer to the truth than any of the others,imo
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Justice Carlton leaches book "muscle' is a good one on this topic, he seems to be the closest survivor
Going to check em out and the films, got a long weekend off this weekend Lucy 8)
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If you have a source for that it would explain why Tate's girlfriend may tell Steele that.
However I'm not sure why Tate would tell his girlfriend he was planning to double cross & kill someone. Had Tate never heard of Julie Mugford ? Something that sinister would be kept between Tate, Tucker & maybe Rolfe.
it may have been that when tate beat her and humiliated her she ran to steele and his partner for support the two couples did share time together before all blew up.tates girlfriend warning micky is in her police statement which was on o'mahony's site .tate was goading her as to what will be happening to micky
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It's in the film, I can't see why it would be made up,
Tate was a violent bully she probably thought he was either talking crap or it was just day to day life with him,
The film early on shows Tate threatening Steele over a dud consignment of drugs. However Steele then invited Tate & Tucker to join his fake cocaine deal & got them onside.
There is certainly no scene in 'Rise of the foot solider' where Steele is informed he is about to be double crossed over the cocaine deal.
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have you seen essex boys adam,i think the film is more closer to the truth than any of the others,imo
Is that with Sean Bean ? Is Bean supposed to be Pat Tate in that ?
'Rise of the foot solider' is good.
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The film early on shows Tate threatening Steele over a dud consignment of drugs. However Steele then invited Tate & Tucker to join his fake cocaine deal & got them onside.
There is certainly no scene in 'Rise of the foot solider' where Steele is informed he is about to be double crossed over the cocaine deal.
Steele was well aware of what they were up to,
Keep your enemies close Adam as the saying goes
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Is that with Sean Bean ? Is Bean supposed to be Pat Tate in that ?
'Rise of the foot solider' is good.
yes adam its sean bean,he plays tate well i urge you watch it good film
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it may have been that when tate beat her and humiliated her she ran to steele and his partner for support the two couples did share time together before all blew up.tates girlfriend warning micky is in her police statement which was on o'mahony's site .tate was goading her as to what will be happening to micky
Because tate knew they were banging, I think she may of thought Steele could protect her against tate
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whomes excuse for being at the wheatsheaf pub and the phone call was he was picking up darrens broken down car,hence in 4 seconds he says (darren ive got your car iam taking it back to the garage.also the shotgun found was not the murder weapon.the shotgun or shotgun's have never been found
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One thing I can't get my head round though Is, snow on the ground already laid, and no footprints or disturbance,
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whomes excuse for being at the wheatsheaf pub and the phone call was he was picking up darrens broken down car,hence in 4 seconds he (darren ive got the car iam taking it back to the garage.also the shotgun found was not the murder weapon.the or shotgun or shotgun's have never been found
Yes I read this, the car used was apparently a piece of shit BUT
There is a petrol receipt that shoes either Steele or whomes I can't remember which was at a petrol station at or around the time, I think near Colchester
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Mat, muscle is a good one by Carlton leach or if you can Google Bernard o Mahoney his site has all the police statements etc
lucy i think bernies site no longer exists
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Mat, muscle is a good one by Carlton leach or if you can Google Bernard o Mahoney his site has all the police statements etc
Thanks, I'll put the Leach book on my Christmas list.
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lucy i think bernies site no longer exists
I just tried to find it and it's gone! That was such a good place for information! I wonder why it's disappeared
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One thing I can't get my head round though Is, snow on the ground already laid, and no footprints or disturbance,
there were some prints found near the car too small to be steele or whomes.did you see the photo of the depression on the ground just behind the open car door ,it looked like the grass had been flattened as if someone had been laying there.yes i agree lucy wicked site for info not sure if the police had something to do with it
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there were some prints found near the car too small to be steele or whomes.did you see the photo of the depression on the ground just behind the open car door ,it looked like the grass had been flattened as if someone had been laying there.yes i agree lucy wicked site for info not sure if the police had something to do with it
Never saw that Sami, I know the police wanted it doen because of the autopsy pictures but they are in the public domain now anyway so makes no odds
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Never saw that Sami, I know the police wanted it doen because of the autopsy pictures but they are in the public domain now anyway so makes no odds
Yes, seen some photo’s that looked gross Lucy, bet they come off his site. Did you say it happened not too far off you Lucy? When I used to travel down A12 I always wondered where it was, near Chelmsford wasn’t it?
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Never saw that Sami, I know the police wanted it doen because of the autopsy pictures but they are in the public domain now anyway so makes no odds
yes there were some prints found that were very small.they did not belong to the farm workers who discovered the bodies and were too small to be steele n whomes
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Yes, seen some photo’s that looked gross Lucy, bet they come off his site. Did you say it happened not too far off you Lucy? When I used to travel down A12 I always wondered where it was, near Chelmsford wasn’t it?
Off rettendon turnpike justice, I've always wanted to drive down there , sick I know but it's got concrete blocks in front of the lane now so no one can get down there, it's about 15 minutes from me,
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Off rettendon turnpike justice, I've always wanted to drive down there , sick I know but it's got concrete blocks in front of the lane now so no one can get down there, it's about 15 minutes from me,
I tried to google the area on my iPhone, it wasn’t giving me a good map of the area. Will try again Lucy, thanks.
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Off rettendon turnpike justice, I've always wanted to drive down there , sick I know but it's got concrete blocks in front of the lane now so no one can get down there, it's about 15 minutes from me,
iam just as sick as you lucy ive often wanted to just jump in the car and take the 20 min drive to workhouse lane.its weird ive some sort of urge to visit the crime scene.
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iam just as sick as you lucy ive often wanted to just jump in the car and take the 20 min drive to workhouse lane.its weird ive some sort of urge to visit the crime scene.
Haha me to I've gone past white house farm loads, where are u from?
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Haha me to I've gone past white house farm loads, where are u from?
wanstead E11.we are not alone many people have visited the murdersite ,i think there is a youtube clip where someone drove down workhouse and filmed his journey so people who cant make the trip can see the area
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wanstead E11.we are not alone many people have visited the murdersite ,i think there is a youtube clip where someone drove down workhouse and filmed his journey so people who cant make the trip can see the area
We are cm3 I want to go down there lol
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We are cm3 I want to go down there lol
i dont think its worth it now lucy,as you said bollards blocking the enterance means only one thing they are sick of people driving down the lane to see the site,plus if its private land i dont fancy getting a load of lead shot on my backside :))
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i dont think its worth it now lucy,as you said bollards blocking the enterance means only one thing they are sick of people driving down the lane to see the site,plus if its private land i dont fancy getting a load of lead shot on my backside :))
Haha my dad shot my grandad in the backside once when he was about 14 by accident he couldn't sit down for weeks
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Haha my dad shot my grandad in the backside once when he was about 14 by accident he couldn't sit down for weeks
the old cane i used to get from the headmaster had a similar affect ,made me remember the wrong i had done every time i sat down,its only when a friend suggested i stuff a few ladybird books down my trousers before getting canned . that i was able to get some relief :))
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Lol worst thing they did was take the cane away!!
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Lol worst thing they did was take the cane away!!
here here well said lucy.
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Lol worst thing they did was take the cane away!!
lucy what makes you think they are innocent.quite a few people do believe their are innocent
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lucy what makes you think they are innocent.quite a few people do believe their are innocent
I don't think there's enough evidence to link them to the crime scene, their phones pinged in a triangle so could of bounced off any tower, the petrol receipt, and the evidence of Darren Nicholls doesn't sit well; I just find it hard to believe the word of someone who had everything to gain by them being convicted,
Steele and whomes weren't big time gangsters and It was a professional well thought out hit; I don't see why they would harbour enough hatred to murder them all, also I believe they would of admitted their guilt by now if they had they'd be out.
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I don't think there's enough evidence to link them to the crime scene, their phones pinged in a triangle so could of bounced off any tower, the petrol receipt, and the evidence of Darren Nicholls doesn't sit well; I just find it hard to believe the word of someone who had everything to gain by them being convicted,
Steele and whomes weren't big time gangsters and It was a professional well thought out hit; I don't see why they would harbour enough hatred to murder them all, also I believe they would of admitted their guilt by now if they had they'd be out.
yes there are sound reasons lucy
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I don't think there's enough evidence to link them to the crime scene, their phones pinged in a triangle so could of bounced off any tower, the petrol receipt, and the evidence of Darren Nicholls doesn't sit well; I just find it hard to believe the word of someone who had everything to gain by them being convicted,
Steele and whomes weren't big time gangsters and It was a professional well thought out hit; I don't see why they would harbour enough hatred to murder them all, also I believe they would of admitted their guilt by now if they had they'd be out.
Some say it was a set up to get all five of them Lucy?
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Some say it was a set up to get all five of them Lucy?
I just don't know, but tate and Tucker had a lot of enemies they'd pissed off a lot of people, including some proper gangsters not some plastic woman beating scum with no morals,
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I just don't know, but tate and Tucker had a lot of enemies they'd pissed off a lot of people, including some proper gangsters not some plastic woman beating scum with no morals,
yes i agree lucy.tates mob were not the only dealers in essex .take the blundell's an associate of the man who sold the farmhouse to them ,said in a documentry that blundell's wanted that farmhouse because it had a big garden with a lake in it so they could drops bails of drugs from a light plane.iam not saying they had dealing with steel as he had a pilots licence .the two blundell bros were described by a top police man as more dangerous than the krays ever were.in his words
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I just don't know, but tate and Tucker had a lot of enemies they'd pissed off a lot of people, including some proper gangsters not some plastic woman beating scum with no morals,
Yes it seems they did Lucy, I’m watching the movies over the weekend and into next week ;)
We had a massacre not far from us Lucy, I get the chills when I go past Pottery cottage, I came up over Beeley Moor near Chatsworth mid winter (this is where the murderer walked) Mist was down I was in my car and I was bricking it Ha Ha
Look him up Billy Hughes, he killed four and kept one alive
https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/pottery-cottage-murders-heroic-cop-breaks-his-silence-about-a-crime-which-shocked-derbyshire-1-8548413
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yes i agree lucy.tates mob were not the only dealers in essex .take the blundell's an associate of the man who sold the farmhouse to them ,said in a documentry that blundell's wanted that farmhouse because it had a big garden with a lake in it so they could drops bails of drugs from a light plane.iam not saying they had dealing with steel as he had a pilots licence .the two blundell bros were described by a top police man as more dangerous than the krays ever were.in his words
Yeah I've read about them, I just can't see Steele and whomes doing this and relying on Darren Nicholls to cover their back I mean who even was Darren Nicholls?
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Yes it seems they did Lucy, I’m watching the movies over the weekend and into next week ;)
We had a massacre not far from us Lucy, I get the chills when I go past Pottery cottage, I came up over Beeley Moor near Chatsworth mid winter (this is where the murderer walked) Mist was down I was in my car and I was bricking it Ha Ha
Look him up Billy Hughes, he killed four and kept one alive
https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/pottery-cottage-murders-heroic-cop-breaks-his-silence-about-a-crime-which-shocked-derbyshire-1-8548413
he's a nasty piece of work another prime candidate for the noose
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he's a nasty piece of work another prime candidate for the noose
Have you heard of him Sami? The police shot him in the end, he escaped from police custody, nicked the police van stabbing police, smashed the van and legged it over the moors in the snow to pottery cottage, held them all hostage in separate rooms, killed them over the next few days telling the wife that they were alive, he killed her mum and dad, her husband and daughter.
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Have you heard of him Sami? The police shot him in the end, he escaped from police custody, nicked the police van stabbing police, smashed the van and legged it over the moors in the snow to pottery cottage, held them all hostage in separate rooms, killed them over the next few days telling the wife that they were alive, he killed her mum and dad, her husband and daughter.
What the fuck is wrong with people!!
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Have you heard of him Sami? The police shot him in the end, he escaped from police custody, nicked the police van stabbing police, smashed the van and legged it over the moors in the snow to pottery cottage, held them all hostage in separate rooms, killed them over the next few days telling the wife that they were alive, he killed her mum and dad, her husband and daughter.
no ive not heard of the case before,just followed the link you posted to the story,did he have mental health issues or just evilness.imagine meeting him on the moors
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What the fuck is wrong with people!!
I know Lucy, they say he was a psychopath, the police said he shot him through the car window and it hit his scull and bounced off and it made him even more wild, he was a real nutter
https://www.lep.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/the-bullet-just-bounced-off-his-head-and-made-him-more-wild-1-8575378
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What the fuck is wrong with people!!
as ive said before lucy the noose is the only cure for evil people ,when the case is clear cut like this one than the old saying from the bible must apply.(an eye for an eye)
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no ive not heard of the case before,just followed the link you posted to the story,did he have mental health issues or just evilness.imagine meeting him on the moors
Hed been theiving from an early age Sami, I think he had links to Blackpool, then he married a girl from Chesterfield, one of my mates from pit new him around town drinking and he said he was a nutter. It’s been said he had done work for the household and that’s why he targeted them, not 100 per cent on that though Sami. It’s really eerie coming over Beeley in winter and when it’s dark, everytime we pass Pottery Cottage, the wife will go,” I know that’s the house that Billy Hughes did that massacre”. She knows what I’m going to say ;D
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Hed been theiving from an early age Sami, I think he had links to Blackpool, then he married a girl from Chesterfield, one of my mates from pit new him around town drinking and he said he was a nutter. It’s been said he had done work for the household and that’s why he targeted them, not 100 per cent on that though Sami. It’s really eerie coming over Beeley in winter and when it’s dark, everytime we pass Pottery Cottage, the wife will go,” I know that’s the house that Billy Hughes did that massacre”. She knows what I’m going to say ;D
that sounds like a place here in essex near epping forest called highbeach theres been a few bodies found there if you driving there and switch the lights off its pitch black very spooky makes the hairs on your neck stand up.if you breakdown youre bang in trouble no one around for miles
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lucy have you read much on nicholls ,its worth reading his side of the story.goggle darren nicholls and read the title (life of a supergrass)its very interesting( blogs 19) is also good
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that sounds like a place here in essex near epping forest called highbeach theres been a few bodies found there if you driving there and switch the lights off its pitch black very spooky makes the hairs on your neck stand up.if you breakdown youre bang in trouble no one around for miles
The best thing Sami, he didn’t have chance to appeal or somebody want his DNA, Bang take that, that’s what all them type need ;D ;D ;D
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The best thing Sami, he didn’t have chance to appeal or somebody want his DNA, Bang take that, that’s what all them type need ;D ;D ;D
absolutely justice :)
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that sounds like a place here in essex near epping forest called highbeach theres been a few bodies found there if you driving there and switch the lights off its pitch black very spooky makes the hairs on your neck stand up.if you breakdown youre bang in trouble no one around for miles
Stopped in Best Western this year Sami on edge of Epping Forest
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Stopped in Best Western this year Sami on edge of Epping Forest
lovely place epping forest.dick turpins old hunting grounds used to go there alot in my teens(never in the dark)
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lovely place epping forest.dick turpins old hunting grounds used to go there alot in my teens(never in the dark)
No I don’t think I would either Sami, nice area though, used to pick Lea Bridge Road up then down to Hackney
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I don't think there's enough evidence to link them to the crime scene, their phones pinged in a triangle so could of bounced off any tower, the petrol receipt, and the evidence of Darren Nicholls doesn't sit well; I just find it hard to believe the word of someone who had everything to gain by them being convicted,
Steele and whomes weren't big time gangsters and It was a professional well thought out hit; I don't see why they would harbour enough hatred to murder them all, also I believe they would of admitted their guilt by now if they had they'd be out.
do you think the petrol receipt was planted.
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do you think the petrol receipt was planted.
I don't think so nugnug as it basically proves he wasn't in the vicinity
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as ive said before lucy the noose is the only cure for evil people ,when the case is clear cut like this one than the old saying from the bible must apply.(an eye for an eye)
I'm all for an eye for an eye, these people can't be rehabilitated so why waste the tax payers money keeping them fed and watered, we then have ex service men out on the streets without a pot to piss in
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lucy have you read much on nicholls ,its worth reading his side of the story.goggle darren nicholls and read the title (life of a supergrass)its very interesting( blogs 19) is also good
Yeah I have bloggs 19 Sami, he just seems like a nobody to me had no real sustenance to be involved at all and just used it as a bargaining tool to save his own arse in my opinion
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I'm all for an eye for an eye, these people can't be rehabilitated so why waste the tax payers money keeping them fed and watered, we then have ex service men out on the streets without a pot to piss in
totally agree well said lucy
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ive met a lot of people who think this is a terrvle misscarage of justice ive met others who eqaully admant about there guilt.
what never seems to be asked though is even if they did it who paid them to i mean if they are guilty they dident just decide to do it themselves somone must of put them up to it.
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They'd have squealed before now nugs if that had been the case.
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They'd have squealed before now nugs if that had been the case.
thats what i would of thought if they were guilty but then agian it might be more than there lifes worth i mean they could ealy be got at in prison and there family to think about as well.
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thats what i would of thought if they were guilty but then agian it might be more than there lifes worth i mean they could ealy be got at in prison and there family to think about as well.
Yeah I see what your saying. I really don't think they did it personally, Nicholls roll never have to worry as he has a whole new identity but if they squealed they would be killed when they got our anyway
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like i said before if one asked a criminal to leave everything you know and love. all your family and friends be looking over shoulder every minute of the day.never be able to visit the haunts you love the places that hold childhood memories.get no financial help once youve been reallocated.accept all that or do a 5yrs sentence of which you might only do 3yrs 90% would pick prison seen as darren knew the ropes and had done bird before 3yrs would be nothing for him he chose the other route cause he knew eventually they would kill him
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ive met a lot of people who think this is a terrvle misscarage of justice ive met others who eqaully admant about there guilt.
what never seems to be asked though is even if they did it who paid them to i mean if they are guilty they dident just decide to do it themselves somone must of put them up to it.
Steele and Whomes believed Tate and Tucker were planning to kill them because of a lousy drug deal they made.
So they set a trap. Telling them they could make a lot of money out of plane shipment of cocaine. Tate and Tucker obviously didn't intend to kill them once they thought Steele and Whomes would make them rich. But there was no plane shipment of cocaine. It was a kill or be killed set up.
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Here is part of Nicholls statement.
When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.
I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.
Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.
The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.
I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.
I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont fuck us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.
From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.
Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.
There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.
Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.
Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a bastard, who would give a fuck that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.
Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.
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i think the story of a mister big who loaned tate the money was just put out to muddy the waters and to give it an extra twist they claimed it was kennith noye who was in the nick with tate for a while,there was even a rumour on bernies site that a blonde haired man was seen in the back of that range rover.also the majority of the money on that bad cannabis deal was put up by tucker even ralph put £2000 in.after many threats by tucker steel agreed to return the money.they went over to amsterdam where stone returned the money in full.we cant be sure if after that the gang asked steele if he could also bring in good quality extasy tablets which ofcouse he could he had good contact in the dam.now if he did supply tates firm with the tablet that killed leah than the threats may have started again.steele must have said i will make it up to you give me a chance and you will be millionairs iam flying in kilos of coke for another firm which you can rob. than the plan was hatched by steele and whomes to get rid of them
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For those who believe them innocent. Who are there alternative suspects and what evidence do they have?
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For those who believe them innocent. Who are there alternative suspects and what evidence do they have?
yes good question
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I didn't really understand that part about the abandoned cocaine in the field. Is the statement by Darren Nicholls credible, would it be easy to fabricate and does it check out in every detail?
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I didn't really understand that part about the abandoned cocaine in the field. Is the statement by Darren Nicholls credible, would it be easy to fabricate and does it check out in every detail?
Where is this written?
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Where is this written?
Sorry it was the cannabis drop in the field mentioned in the film clip. I wondered who had ordered it and why it went left unclaimed.
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Sorry it was the cannabis drop in the field mentioned in the film clip. I wondered who had ordered it and why it went left unclaimed.
What film?
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What film?
It might be this one: https://youtu.be/qJxJJA2aMDI
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Just watched Essex Boys Sami and Lucy, catch up with you later ;D
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Just watched Essex Boys Sami and Lucy, catch up with you later ;D
nice one justice,hope you injoyed it mate
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Yeah I see what your saying. I really don't think they did it personally, Nicholls roll never have to worry as he has a whole new identity but if they squealed they would be killed when they got our anyway
There are a lot of innocent & unlucky people in prison. Bamber & now Steele & Whomes.
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Here is part of Nicholls statement.
When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.
I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.
Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.
The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.
I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.
I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont fuck us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.
From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.
Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.
There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.
Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.
Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a bastard, who would give a fuck that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.
Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.
That seems convincing. Going into detail.
It would be interesting to know the time Tate spoke to his girlfriend on the phone. If it was shortly before Whomes 4 second phone call, it shows Tate, Tucker & Rolfe had willingly driven to the farm gate, rather than being held at gun point. It also shows they knew their killers.
Steele & Whomes were lucky that Tate didn't mention the names of who he was with to his girlfriend.
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There was no reason to use Nicholls.
Whomes could have just parked somewhere quiet a few hundred yards away. After the massacre, Steel & Whomes could have walked back to the car.
Clothes could then be burned, the car cleaned or burned & the murder weapon dumped. They could then be each others alibi's.
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Just watched Essex Boys Sami and Lucy, catch up with you later ;D
A lot of inaccurracies in this film. If Sean Bean is supposed to be Tate, he's portrayed as a big time player, which he wasn't. But Sean Bean is a film star so his part had to be beefed up.
The massacre is given the hollywood treatment & the driver isn't even killed.
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The only reason why Nicholls may have been used, is Whomes didn't want his car seen within the area on the night. The motorways would have CCTV. He would then not be able to claim he was at home that night.
The solution to this would be to use a car he has no connection to. He was going to kill 3 people, so obtaining such a vehicle for one night would not be hard.
However even if Whomes's car was spotted by CCTV on the night, a long way from the massacre sight, it wouldn't be enough for the police.
So still no reason to use Nicholl's.
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The only reason why Nicholls may have been used, is Whomes didn't want his car seen within the area on the night. The motorways would have CCTV. He would then not be able to claim he was at home that night.
The solution to this would be to use a car he has no connection to. He was going to kill 3 people, so obtaining such a vehicle for one night would not be hard.
However even if Whomes's car was spotted by CCTV on the night, a long way from the massacre sight, it wouldn't be enough for the police.
So still no reason to use Nicholl's.
No reason for Nicholls to be involved at all he was a nobody
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For those who believe them innocent. Who are there alternative suspects and what evidence do they have?
Who were the canning town mob mentioned? I can't remember off the top of my head but think they were bigger time gangsters?
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A lot of inaccurracies in this film. If Sean Bean is supposed to be Tate, he's portrayed as a big time player, which he wasn't. But Sean Bean is a film star so his part had to be beefed up.
The massacre is given the hollywood treatment & the driver isn't even killed.
Admitted but still good to watch, liked Tom Wilkinson out of Full Monty, both he and Sean took good parts.
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Admitted but still good to watch, liked Tom Wilkinson out of Full Monty, both he and Sean took good parts.
Justice next on the list Rise of the footsoldier
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Justice next on the list Rise of the footsoldier
Ha Ha, just watched a 10 min trailer, now this film looks the part wow, that man does look scary ???
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A lot of inaccurracies in this film. If Sean Bean is supposed to be Tate, he's portrayed as a big time player, which he wasn't. But Sean Bean is a film star so his part had to be beefed up.
The massacre is given the hollywood treatment & the driver isn't even killed.
its not fact based adam.but the story line is very close.i wouldnt say he was shown as a big time player but a well know villain.
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There are a lot of innocent & unlucky people in prison. Bamber & now Steele & Whomes.
:)) :)) :)) :))
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Who were the canning town mob mentioned? I can't remember off the top of my head but think they were bigger time gangsters?
lucy years ago there was a firm called the canning town snipers one member of that firm david hunt now runs a deadly team of villains ,premier league i would say hunt owns the epping forest country club in chigwell.
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bernie is not to be trusted a rotten apple,when he left prison and arrived in essex he didnt have a pot to piss in .tucker gave him a job and made him head bouncer.barnie knew e's were being sold in the club tucker might even have given him an extra drink on top of his wages to keep out any dealers not connected to tucker.bernie also know that there have been several deaths from taking e's,the deaths are not reported the same way as leah's death as she was the daughter of a policeman.anywhere once it came on top bernie stuck the knife in to save his own hide by helping police and supplying an e' tablet for testing.
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adam tates girlfriend now says she did not warn steel about anything.but there is still the police statement of donna jagger ,rolf's girlfriend who said when craig dropped her off at the shopping centre he said iam going to look at a (landing site) with micky and the boys.
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ive met a lot of people who think this is a terrvle misscarage of justice ive met others who eqaully admant about there guilt.
what never seems to be asked though is even if they did it who paid them to i mean if they are guilty they dident just decide to do it themselves somone must of put them up to it.
When you say lot, I take it at some sort of gathering?
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just seen a interesting youtube clip where whomes brother is slyly having a go at the people making the films and books on the case ,he says its wrong.he also says in essex boys the truth his voice had been edited to make it look like he was admitting his brother is guilty which he says is not true ,he didnt make that statement.glad that people are seeing bernie for what he is.
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if i was on jury i dont think on the evdence presnted i would of found them guilty.
where did they cliam to be that night.
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For those who believe them innocent. Who are there alternative suspects and what evidence do they have?
i heard somthing about keneth noye being behind it.
but thats was just after noye had been convicted in the press were blaming him for more or less everything gangster related.
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i heard somthing about keneth noye being behind it.
but thats was just after noye had been convicted in the press were blaming him for more or less everything gangster related.
I've read about noyes possible involvement as well,
On the evidence presented, I would of gone not guilty as well, there's just not enough, all the men frequented the same area I don't think the mobile phone pings are enough to prove guilt, the mobiles could of gone off any tower
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I've read about noyes possible involvement as well,
On the evidence presented, I would of gone not guilty as well, there's just not enough, all the men frequented the same area I don't think the mobile phone pings are enough to prove guilt, the mobiles could of gone off any tower
Ive heard that as well Lucy, the accusation has come from a undercover cop John Fordham? He said Noye was behind the fatal drug consignment that killed Leah? It wasn't because dad-of-two Noye was upset about the death of an innocent girl young enough to be his daughter. The triple execution five years ago was simply carried out because, police believe, one of the gang had grassed on him.
This is what he has written
Before Noye became involved, the chain from the Netherlands to the UK streets was complex with the drugs often passing through up to 50 pairs of hands.
But the cunning villain cut that down to just five and saw his profits leap. Noye rented
a warehouse in London as a distribution centre for thugs like Tate and henchman Tony Tucker.
Tate and Tucker then sold the Ecstasy on to street pushers.
But the batch they supplied to the pusher operating in Raquel's club in Basildon, Essex, on the night Leah Betts celebrated her birthday was double strength - and it cost Leah her life.
Three weeks after the national outcry over Leah's death, Tate, Tucker and fellow-villain Craig Rolfe were lured to Whitehouse Farm near Rettendon, Essex, to inspect a landing site for a light plane due to bring in hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of Ecstasy.
Their "host" was another of Noye's old associates, 55-year-old Michael Steele.
He met the three in a pub and climbed into the back of the Range Rover with Tate, who was so unsuspecting he hadn't brought the 9mm pistol he normally carried.
But as the Range Rover turned into a lane off the A130, it had to stop at a closed gate where Steele's accomplice, Jack Whomes, was hiding.
Steele jumped out of the back door as Whomes ran towards the vehicle blasting away with an automatic shotgun.
Only Tate had time to put his hands up and crouch down - Tucker and Rolfe were killed instantly, sat bolt upright with blood all over their faces and chests.
After Whomes reloaded, Steele took the gun and shot each man behind their ears "just to make sure".
Steele and Whomes are now serving life. But police privately believe Noye - also doing life for Stephen Cameron's murder - commissioned the slaughter.
But why did he wipe out his friends?
Tate - like Noye - was not averse to giving information to the police to save his own skin.
In the heat that followed Leah's death, was Noye's involvement one of the tit-bits Tate offered the police?
An Essex drug insider says: "If it was, then Kenny would have gone f***ing bananas."
Strangely though, I read at School Noye was a bully to younger children and he was accused of being a grass himself in later life?
Noye played from both ends of the court. He used his contacts to get more work as a fixer and fence, but stayed ahead of the game by signing up as a police informer. He even joined the Freemasons to cement his police contacts.
Don’t know how true though Lucy, but it’s come from different people, Maybe Sami can add his thoughts on this?
Just watched Rise of the footsolider 2 yesterday, can’t seem to get 1 yet? Really enjoyed it he looks a tough guy that Carlton Leach. I don’t think Bamber would have lasted long in the drug world playing with those guys Lucy ;D ;D ;D
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Ive heard that as well Lucy, the accusation has come from a undercover cop John Fordham? He said Noye was behind the fatal drug consignment that killed Leah? It wasn't because dad-of-two Noye was upset about the death of an innocent girl young enough to be his daughter. The triple execution five years ago was simply carried out because, police believe, one of the gang had grassed on him.
This is what he has written
Before Noye became involved, the chain from the Netherlands to the UK streets was complex with the drugs often passing through up to 50 pairs of hands.
But the cunning villain cut that down to just five and saw his profits leap. Noye rented
a warehouse in London as a distribution centre for thugs like Tate and henchman Tony Tucker.
Tate and Tucker then sold the Ecstasy on to street pushers.
But the batch they supplied to the pusher operating in Raquel's club in Basildon, Essex, on the night Leah Betts celebrated her birthday was double strength - and it cost Leah her life.
Three weeks after the national outcry over Leah's death, Tate, Tucker and fellow-villain Craig Rolfe were lured to Whitehouse Farm near Rettendon, Essex, to inspect a landing site for a light plane due to bring in hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of Ecstasy.
Their "host" was another of Noye's old associates, 55-year-old Michael Steele.
He met the three in a pub and climbed into the back of the Range Rover with Tate, who was so unsuspecting he hadn't brought the 9mm pistol he normally carried.
But as the Range Rover turned into a lane off the A130, it had to stop at a closed gate where Steele's accomplice, Jack Whomes, was hiding.
Steele jumped out of the back door as Whomes ran towards the vehicle blasting away with an automatic shotgun.
Only Tate had time to put his hands up and crouch down - Tucker and Rolfe were killed instantly, sat bolt upright with blood all over their faces and chests.
After Whomes reloaded, Steele took the gun and shot each man behind their ears "just to make sure".
Steele and Whomes are now serving life. But police privately believe Noye - also doing life for Stephen Cameron's murder - commissioned the slaughter.
But why did he wipe out his friends?
Tate - like Noye - was not averse to giving information to the police to save his own skin.
In the heat that followed Leah's death, was Noye's involvement one of the tit-bits Tate offered the police?
An Essex drug insider says: "If it was, then Kenny would have gone f***ing bananas."
Strangely though, I read at School Noye was a bully to younger children and he was accused of being a grass himself in later life?
Noye played from both ends of the court. He used his contacts to get more work as a fixer and fence, but stayed ahead of the game by signing up as a police informer. He even joined the Freemasons to cement his police contacts.
Don’t know how true though Lucy, but it’s come from different people, Maybe Sami can add his thoughts on this?
Just watched Rise of the footsolider 2 yesterday, can’t seem to get 1 yet? Really enjoyed it he looks a tough guy that Carlton Leach. I don’t think Bamber would have lasted long in the drug world playing with those guys Lucy ;D ;D ;D
I think it was a commissioned hit, people who are high up don't tend to carry things out themselves as they don't want it coming back to them, I just don't believe Steele and whomes would of put their trust in Nicholls to keep quiet they don't come across as big time or nasty bullys in my opinion
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I've read about noyes possible involvement as well,
On the evidence presented, I would of gone not guilty as well, there's just not enough, all the men frequented the same area I don't think the mobile phone pings are enough to prove guilt, the mobiles could of gone off any tower
noye was in prison with tate.but i doubt he had anything to do with it.i do think noye had tates childhood friend johm marshall killed in se london.marshall was still good friends with tate and it is said he dealt in drugs( cannabis), but as a front his official job was car dealer .soon after cameron was stabbed to death by noye,the car a blue range rover which had been sold by marshall to noye disappeared and noye ordered the hit on marshall so he couldnt tell the police who he had sold the car to.google john marshall murder.its interesting no one has ever been charged with his murder
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noye was in prison with tate.but i doubt he had anything to do with it.i do think noye had tates childhood friend johm marshall killed in se london.marshall was still good friends with tate and it is said he dealt in drugs( cannabis), but as a front his official job was car dealer .soon after cameron was stabbed to death by noye,the car a blue range rover which had been sold by marshall to noye disappeared and noye ordered the hit on marshall so he couldnt tell the police who he had sold the car to.google john marshall murder.its interesting no one has ever been charged with his murder
Cheers for that Sami :)
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noye was in prison with tate.but i doubt he had anything to do with it.i do think noye had tates childhood friend johm marshall killed in se london.marshall was still good friends with tate and it is said he dealt in drugs( cannabis), but as a front his official job was car dealer .soon after cameron was stabbed to death by noye,the car a blue range rover which had been sold by marshall to noye disappeared and noye ordered the hit on marshall so he couldnt tell the police who he had sold the car to.google john marshall murder.its interesting no one has ever been charged with his murder
Tates brother does not believe that Steele was involved.
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Tates brother does not believe that Steele was involved.
is he the one who was convicted of supplying coke from a west london cab office.i think its him.thats interesting.i think many people are split,leach tucker's mate thinks the police have got right people
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if i was on jury i dont think on the evdence presnted i would of found them guilty.
where did they cliam to be that night.
In a pub up the road from the crime scene. They only said this once the cell phone data was disclosed to their defence.
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In a pub up the road from the crime scene. They only said this once the cell phone data was disclosed to their defence.
thanks david, i had forgotten that fact
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is he the one who was convicted of supplying coke from a west london cab office.i think its him.thats interesting.i think many people are split,leach tucker's mate thinks the police have got right people
I don't know much about him Sami. He used to visit my son with a friend. My son couldn't stand him.
he blames Leah's dad who was a copper with connections, but I doubt that.
I do believe that Steele was not involved though.
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I don't know much about him Sami. He used to visit my son with a friend. My son couldn't stand him.
he blames Leah's dad who was a copper with connections, but I doubt that.
I do believe that Steele was not involved though.
yes buddy i sure its him,being tates brother the news of his arrest was splashed all over the uk.the blundell brother ,top tier villains also believe them to be innocent
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yes buddy i sure its him,being tates brother the news of his arrest was splashed all over the uk.the blundell brother ,top tier villains also believe them to be innocent
It's a big leap from drug smuggler to killer Sami.
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It's a big leap from drug smuggler to killer Sami.
yes i agree,buddy.its like that episode of minder where arthur is accused in the disappearence and murder of his wife,the constable says arthur he's not capable of murder and the sergeant replys is that what they taught you at hendon ,some men are capable of murder and others are not
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It's a big leap from drug smuggler to killer Sami.
No it is not. Specially when in involves shooting other drug smugglers.
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i heard somthing about keneth noye being behind it.
but thats was just after noye had been convicted in the press were blaming him for more or less everything gangster related.
They are just rumors and gossip. The only suspects that have evidence against them are the ones convicted.
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The only thing I'm not sure about is why they protest innocence. They killed people who nobody liked and many people think they done society a favour getting rid of them.
I can think of several possible reasons.
A) They cannot admit to anything without implicating one another. So nether wants to grass on the other.
B) They are career criminals having committed triple murder and have zero parole prospects.
Probably a combination of both.
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DC BROWN:
Right okay well if that is it you've got the notice, I don't intend to, I don't intend to say anymore about the possession with intent to supply at the moment. The time by my watch is now 2335 hrs an you're now going to be arrested for being involved in the murder of Pat TATE, Craig ROLFE and Tony TUCKER. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Do you wish to make any comment to the fact that you've now been arrested for that murder or a series of murders
Darren NICHOLLS:
No comment
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DC BROWN:
Right okay well if that is it you've got the notice, I don't intend to, I don't intend to say anymore about the possession with intent to supply at the moment. The time by my watch is now 2335 hrs an you're now going to be arrested for being involved in the murder of Pat TATE, Craig ROLFE and Tony TUCKER. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Do you wish to make any comment to the fact that you've now been arrested for that murder or a series of murders
Darren NICHOLLS:
No comment
See this reads to me,
We won't mention your involvement in drug dealing IF you assist us with the murders,
Nicholls saw the opportunity to save his own arse and he took it
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The only thing I'm not sure about is why they protest innocence. They killed people who nobody liked and many people think they done society a favour getting rid of them.
I can think of several possible reasons.
A) They cannot admit to anything without implicating one another. So nether wants to grass on the other.
B) They are career criminals having committed triple murder and have zero parole prospects.
Probably a combination of both.
yes david one could also add personal safety .tate,tucker,n rolf were hated by many but they still have family and friends that might want a few words with the pair.tates son must be a grown man.
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See this reads to me,
We won't mention your involvement in drug dealing IF you assist us with the murders,
Nicholls saw the opportunity to save his own arse and he took it
To me. If he was not involved in the murders, his reaction to being charged with the murders would be denying the charge. not "no comment" ;)
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The only thing I'm not sure about is why they protest innocence. They killed people who nobody liked and many people think they done society a favour getting rid of them.
I can think of several possible reasons.
A) They cannot admit to anything without implicating one another. So nether wants to grass on the other.
B) They are career criminals having committed triple murder and have zero parole prospects.
Probably a combination of both.
What I don't understand is how hardened men were unsuspectingly lured to this dead end and met their deaths like lambs to the slaughter.
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What I don't understand is how hardened men were unsuspectingly lured to this dead end and met their deaths like lambs to the slaughter.
good point steve,they fully trusted steele and police later found tates revolver in the attic .people say he never went anywhere without it.yet he never had it when found dead.ive read barry dorman's statement.he's an ex copper and close friend of tates.he says they all made a trip to amsterdam where steele was waiting and gave them their money back ,tate than gave £2000 and all were laughing and joking,friends again,this was one week before the murders.imo its clear that steel although pretending to make up had decided their fate .he never forgot or forgave them for the threats.in his mind if they can do it once they can do it again.and he told them about a fake coke deal he was flying in.fully aware their greed would make his plan successful
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What I don't understand is how hardened men were unsuspectingly lured to this dead end and met their deaths like lambs to the slaughter.
Because they were fooled into thinking a shipment of cocaine was being flown in. Plus their own minds were fried on drugs.
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This statement was made several month before Darren Nicholls was even arrested.
NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969
Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)
I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.
This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.
He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.
Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.
Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.
We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.
By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.
He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.
I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.
Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.
We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.
There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.
This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.
About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.
On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.
No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.
I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.
By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.
STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.
The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.
Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.
I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.
I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.
The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.
TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.
Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.
This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.
He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.
I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.
We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.
I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.
Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.
D L JAGGERS SIGNED STATEMENT
TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 140396
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
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excellent post david.i couldnt friend any statements after bernies site was taken off the web.brilliant find, it explains the basic's of the case for people who are interested
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guns and drugs go hand in hand.iam not talking about street dealers who serve the public.but people who supply the dealers always have access to shooters.main reason being because its illegal one cant run to the police and say that fella has robbed me of 2kgs of cannabis
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excellent post david.i couldnt friend any statements after bernies site was taken off the web.brilliant find, it explains the basic's of the case for people who are interested
Its so obvious that the two convicted are guilty of the crime. I feel rather stupid for once thinking otherwise. :-\
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Its so obvious that the two convicted are guilty of the crime. I feel rather stupid for once thinking otherwise. :-\
Why did you believe they were innocent ?
They had been arrested, charged, went through a long trial & were convicted. They have failed to get the conviction overturned.
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This statement was made several month before Darren Nicholls was even arrested.
NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969
Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)
I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.
This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.
He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.
Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.
Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.
We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.
By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.
He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.
I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.
Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.
We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.
There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.
This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.
About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.
On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.
No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.
I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.
By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.
STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.
The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.
Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.
I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.
I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.
The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.
TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.
Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.
This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.
He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.
I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.
We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.
I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.
Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.
D L JAGGERS SIGNED STATEMENT
TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 140396
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
If Steele and Whomes were involved, this implies a great deal of carelessness on their part - as it should have been factored in to their plans, that one or more of the three victims could have already discussed their dealings with other people (for example, a partner).
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Why did you believe they were innocent ?
I never believed they were innocent per se. I was under the false impression the conviction was based completely on the word of Darren Nicholls and kept an open mind to it being a possible MOJ.
The impression that rise of the foot soldier and other documentaries gives is very misleading.
Jack Whomes will probably never be released. All the films and books will turn him into a gangland celebrity if he was released.
They had been arrested, charged, went through a long trial & were convicted. They have failed to get the conviction overturned.
Happened to many innocent people.
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If Steele and Whomes were involved, this implies a great deal of carelessness on their part - as it should have been factored in to their plans, that one or more of the three victims could have already discussed their dealings with other people (for example, a partner).
It was the other way round. The victims had spoken to other people of their intentions to kill Steele and Whomes. That info got round to Steele and Whomes.
The victims were the careless ones.
The police were onto Steele, Nicholls and Whomes before Nicholls was even arrested.
Nicholls was their dive about boy like Rolfe was for Patrick and Tony. The only problem was Nicholls lack of involvment in the murders. Having him in the car waiting resulted in the mobile phone call evidnece and him being truthfull as he had no murder to deny doing. In hinsight if they parked the car and took Nicholls with them as a third gunman, then it would be allot more difficult to solve.
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It was the other way round. The victims had spoken to other people of their intentions to kill Steele and Whomes. That info got round to Steele and Whomes.
The victims were the careless ones.
The police were onto Steele, Nicholls and Whomes before Nicholls was even arrested.
Nicholls was their dive about boy like Rolfe was for Patrick and Tony. The only problem was Nicholls lack of involvment in the murders. Having him in the car waiting resulted in the mobile phone call evidnece and him being truthfull as he had no murder to deny doing. In hinsight if they parked the car and took Nicholls with them as a third gunman, then it would be allot more difficult to solve.
Good points made there David.
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Good points made there David.
yes i agree,lucy
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I never believed they were innocent per se. I was under the false impression the conviction was based completely on the word of Darren Nicholls and kept an open mind to it being a possible MOJ.
The impression that rise of the foot soldier and other documentaries gives is very misleading.
Jack Whomes will probably never be released. All the films and books will turn him into a gangland celebrity if he was released.
Happened to many innocent people.
The conviction was based on Nicholls testimony and the phone records.
There would have been dozens of independent witnesses who would confirm that Steele & Whomes knew the victims. Maybe even independent witnesses who knew they were planning something together.
The case successfully going through the DPP & courts, it's very unlikely they were innocent. Although Sion Jenkins, Barry George and Michael O'Brien got their convictions overturned. Hopefully the real killers in these cases will one day be found.
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The conviction was based on Nicholls testimony and the phone records.
Not just phones records but also the cell towers. You also had the testimony of Nicholls partner and Patricks former partner.
Faced with the cell tower evidence placing Whomes near the crime scene at the time of the crime. Whomes claimed he was in the nearby pub. Did he have any witnesses from that pub to say he way there? No. Because he wasn't.
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Not just phones records but also the cell towers. You also had the testimony of Nicholls partner and Patricks former partner.
Faced with the cell tower evidence placing Whomes near the crime scene at the time of the crime. Whomes claimed he was in the nearby pub. Did he have any witnesses from that pub to say he way there? No. Because he wasn't.
Why not just admit it then, they could be out now?
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Why not just admit it then, they could be out now?
They are not eligible for parole until 2021.
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Not just phones records but also the cell towers. You also had the testimony of Nicholls partner and Patricks former partner.
Faced with the cell tower evidence placing Whomes near the crime scene at the time of the crime. Whomes claimed he was in the nearby pub. Did he have any witnesses from that pub to say he way there? No. Because he wasn't.
depends what sort of pub it was if it was packed all the time you could well go in there and not be remembred.
and not all pubs had cctv in those days.
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depends what sort of pub it was if it was packed all the time you could well go in there and not be remembred.
and not all pubs had cctv in those days.
Ok so while Keneth Noye, the Turkish mafia and the SAS are shooting Tucker and Tate. Jack Whomes just so happens to be in a pub up the road on the exact same day and the same time? Whomes then deceides to make a four second phone call to Darren Nicholls. Who just so happend to also call Tony Tucker and Pat Tate that same afternoon? How fortunate for the "real killers"
Whomes never told the police were he was that night. It was only later at trial when the telephone records and cell tower records were disclosed to the defence did this story then emerge.
" 42. The defendants Whomes and Steele gave no explanation of these matters to the police in interview. Much later, after the details of this call were known, and after the cell site evidence had been disclosed - so that they knew when, by whom, to whom and through which cell sites the calls had been made - the defendants gave an explanation for the calls, as we have already set out. The prosecution alleges - and the jury by their verdict found - that the defendants have concocted a story so as to account for these telephone calls.
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Do you now realise why I feel stupid? Its so obvious they are guilty and so easy to work out why if one bothers to do basic research.
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ive never taken much intrest in the case really on acount the fact the only personrreally defending them was mahoney and i know he tells lies.
ive never really considred eather they did or not but on the evdence she presnted at trail i would of found it hard to convict them had i been on the jury.
there most likely people to have done it certanly but weather its proven beyound reasonable doubt im not sure.
what i count agianst them is no reputable moj organisation seems to have wanted to take up the case.
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ive never taken much intrest in the case really on acount the fact the only personrreally defending them was mahoney and i know he tells lies.
ive never really considred eather they did or not but on the evdence she presnted at trail i would of found it hard to convict them had i been on the jury.
there most likely people to have done it certanly but weather its proven beyound reasonable doubt im not sure.
what i count agianst them is no reputable moj organisation seems to have wanted to take up the case.
The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for the calls.
The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for their whereabouts.
The Jury heard that only much later had an explanation when the damning details where given to the defence.
The Jury heard that Pats girlfiend warned Steele and Whomes that he was planning to kill them.
The Jury heard about Nicholls telling his girlfiend details about the plane shipping in the drugs to the field before Nicholls was even arrested.
The Jury heard about Steele mentioning Pats girtlfiend calling him shorly before the murders. Something only the killers would know.
How could any Jury in thier right mind acquit them? ???
I get the impression that Bernard Omahoney has always known they were guilty. But helped their campaign because he felt they didnt deserve to be in prison. I can sympathise with that to some extent since they done society and the police a favour by getting rid of them.
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The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for the calls.
The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for their whereabouts.
The Jury heard that only much later had an explanation when the damning details where given to the defence.
The Jury heard that Pats girlfiend warned Steele and Whomes that he was planning to kill them.
The Jury heard about Nicholls telling his girlfiend details about the plane shipping in the drugs to the field before Nicholls was even arrested.
The Jury heard about Steele mentioning Pats girtlfiend calling him shorly before the murders. Something only the killers would know.
How could any Jury in thier right mind acquit them? ???
I get the impression that Bernard Omahoney has always known they were guilty. But helped their campaign because he felt they didnt deserve to be in prison. I can sympathise with that to some extent since they done society and the police a favour by getting rid of them.
I hear that last paragraph David, maybe that's not so far from the truth.
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The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for the calls.
The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for their whereabouts.
The Jury heard that only much later had an explanation when the damning details where given to the defence.
The Jury heard that Pats girlfiend warned Steele and Whomes that he was planning to kill them.
The Jury heard about Nicholls telling his girlfiend details about the plane shipping in the drugs to the field before Nicholls was even arrested.
The Jury heard about Steele mentioning Pats girtlfiend calling him shorly before the murders. Something only the killers would know.
How could any Jury in thier right mind acquit them? ???
I get the impression that Bernard Omahoney has always known they were guilty. But helped their campaign because he felt they didnt deserve to be in prison. I can sympathise with that to some extent since they done society and the police a favour by getting rid of them.
I doubt that Omahoney cared about whether Tate, Rolfe & Tucker lived or died. He was a lawyer, not a gangster & wouldn't have heard of them pre massacre.
Omahoney felt he could boost his profile by getting involved in a famous case. If he somehow found a technicality, that would boost his reputation.
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I doubt that Omahoney cared about whether Tate, Rolfe & Tucker lived or died. He was a lawyer, not a gangster & wouldn't have heard of them pre massacre.
Omahoney felt he could boost his profile by getting involved in a famous case. If he somehow found a technicality, that would boost his reputation.
he is certainly not a laywer.
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Steele & Whomes protest their innocence partly because they believe they did nothing morally wrong. Tate & Tucker were violent criminals who were a danger to Steele & Whomes.
Bamber protests his innocence partly because he doesn't feel morally guilty about what he did.
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To " not feel morally guilty " about slaughtering 5 people including 2 children,you'd have to be the worst insane criminal in a Cat A prison-----------of which JB is NOT !! He remains INNOCENT.
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there is a hole forum to talk about Jeremy bamber why does he keep getting dragged into the off topic threas.
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there is a hole forum to talk about Jeremy bamber why does he keep getting dragged into the off topic threas.
It's an insecurity about JB's guilt,so he has to keep convincing himself. Sad really when you don't believe yourself.
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It's an insecurity about JB's guilt,so he has to keep convincing himself. Sad really when you don't believe yourself.
You are correct Lookout. I am insecure about Bamber's guilt.
The Wright, Steele/Whomes & Bamber cases are similar in that there is a mountain of evidence against them all. Unlike OJ I believe they all took the stand as well.
Haven't they all appealed as well ?
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It seems not -
'It was announced on 19 March 2008 that Wright was to appeal his convictions,[9] but on 2 February 2009, it was announced that Wright had decided to drop this appeal case.'
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I see that Steve 'Nipper' Ellis has tried to pin the killings on his deceased father. Not so sure he was totally convincing in his claims.
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I see that Steve 'Nipper' Ellis has tried to pin the killings on his deceased father. Not so sure he was totally convincing in his claims.
The evidence proves it was Whomes and Steele. Not that it will stop people making up stories for attention.
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The evidence proves it was Whomes and Steele. Not that it will stop people making up stories for attention.
Have you seen the video of his interview or any videos analysing it? Pinning it on your own dad is a strange way of seeking attention.
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It's as if he's trying to keep either himself or another associate out of it.. But not quite convincingly achieving that.
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The evidence proves it was Whomes and Steele. Not that it will stop people making up stories for attention.
Here's one of your guilty lads talking..
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=steve+ellis+interview+essex+boys&docid=608012433178821932&mid=6D89F619688635E822716D89F619688635E82271&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
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The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for the calls.
The Jury heard that they gave no explanation for their whereabouts.
The Jury heard that only much later had an explanation when the damning details where given to the defence.
The Jury heard that Pats girlfiend warned Steele and Whomes that he was planning to kill them.
The Jury heard about Nicholls telling his girlfiend details about the plane shipping in the drugs to the field before Nicholls was even arrested.
The Jury heard about Steele mentioning Pats girtlfiend calling him shorly before the murders. Something only the killers would know.
How could any Jury in thier right mind acquit them? ???
I get the impression that Bernard Omahoney has always known they were guilty. But helped their campaign because he felt they didnt deserve to be in prison. I can sympathise with that to some extent since they done society and the police a favour by getting rid of them.
I think Whomes defence was that he made the call to Nichols from the Wheatsheaf Hotel.
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Steele and Whomes are in a similar position to Jeremy. Appeals turned down,etc.,nobody listening to their pleas of innocence. Steele's 3rd appeal was last year,but was turned down.
Do they know for sure that all three were shot and not two and a suicide ?
There were no firearms found inside the Range Rover so I'm ruling it out. There are superficial similarities: both cases were circumstantial, both relied on police informers, both had a drugs involvement, the motive for both seemed to be that the perpetrators were doing everyone a favour, intermingled with the love of money, and all defendants maintain their innocence to this day.
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A brief synopsis of the case. https://youtu.be/CUgF6phrm6E