Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:30:AM

Title: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:30:AM
The hand written version of the Scenes of crime register has still not yet been disclosed, despite over 33 years since the time of the tragedy having elapsed - instead an edited typed version, of which the contents of the very first page are very telling, and highly significant...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:36:AM
'The 2nd team of SOCO who attended the incident (Davidson, Hammersley, Bird and Cook), no mention of the 1st team of SOCO (DC HENDERSON and DC OAKEY) and the role they played in the re-staging of the crime scene under the watchful eye of senior Essex police detectives, Jones, Harris, Gibbons, Clarke, Miller, Montgomery, and others, during the practice / exercise known as or referred to as 'INFORMATIVES' which were performed between around 9.00am and 10.00am on the first morning of the police investigation...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 10:17:AM
SOCO should also have used their skills in judging how long Sheila had been dead by the state of the pool of blood near her neck. Investigators look for its appearance to give them an idea of time of death such as if the blood appeared shiny and gelatinous then death had been somewhere around an hour or so. Should the blood appear to clot and serum appears then several hours have passed.
In Sheila's case it would appear to be the former as photographs dictate.

 

 
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 11:48:AM
SOCO should also have used their skills in judging how long Sheila had been dead by the state of the pool of blood near her neck. Investigators look for its appearance to give them an idea of time of death such as if the blood appeared shiny and gelatinous then death had been somewhere around an hour or so. Should the blood appear to clot and serum appears then several hours have passed.
In Sheila's case it would appear to be the former as photographs dictate.

It's not a SOCO's role to guess at TOD. You can see for the 'genuine' photographs that the blood is dark and dry. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue differently - the photo shows dried, cracking and flaking blood and yet people still argue differently.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 12:55:PM
It's not a SOCO's role to guess at TOD. You can see for the 'genuine' photographs that the blood is dark and dry. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue differently - the photo shows dried, cracking and flaking blood and yet people still argue differently.





Thin streaks of blood such as those each side of her mouth would have dried in minutes but the pool of blood near her neck/shoulder shows up evenly spread and shiny.

Aren't SOCO members investigators ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 12:58:PM




Thin streaks of blood such as those each side of her mouth would have dried in minutes but the pool of blood near her neck/shoulder shows up evenly spread and shiny.

Aren't SOCO members investigators ?

Isn't there a difference between medical investigation and SOC investigation?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 01:12:PM
Isn't there a difference between medical investigation and SOC investigation?





Because there wasn't a forensic investigator present at the scene a cursory glance was all Dr Craig did. He in turn would then pass on his findings to the SOCO whose job it is is to investigate the bodies as well as to estimate T.O.D and also other involvements  concerning the deaths.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 01:37:PM




Because there wasn't a forensic investigator present at the scene a cursory glance was all Dr Craig did. He in turn would then pass on his findings to the SOCO whose job it is is to investigate the bodies as well as to estimate T.O.D and also other involvements  concerning the deaths.

If it's not a Doctor's job to estimate time of death, I doubt it's in SOCO's remit.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 01:58:PM




Thin streaks of blood such as those each side of her mouth would have dried in minutes but the pool of blood near her neck/shoulder shows up evenly spread and shiny.

Aren't SOCO members investigators ?

The dried blood around her mouth with no sign of any spluttering, shows she has been a dead for quite some time. The blood pooled in her armpit is also dark. The picture promoted by the Italian is a fraud.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 02:24:PM
The dried blood around her mouth with no sign of any spluttering, shows she has been a dead for quite some time. The blood pooled in her armpit is also dark. The picture promoted by the Italian is a fraud.






Because there's no sign of spluttering means that it was passive bleeding given her lateral position and not necessarily that she had been dead for any length of time.

The pics of Sheilas " red blood " would have been taken with a proper camera used in the medical profession.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 02:29:PM





Because there's no sign of spluttering means that it was passive bleeding given her lateral position and not necessarily that she had been dead for any length of time.

The pics of Sheilas " red blood " would have been taken with a proper camera used in the medical profession.

Not like the ones used by SOCO when they estimate time of death, then?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 02:32:PM
Not like the ones used by SOCO when they estimate time of death, then?





Yes they use the same cameras or should do to get a clearer picture not a grainy one.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 04:58:PM





Because there's no sign of spluttering means that it was passive bleeding given her lateral position and not necessarily that she had been dead for any length of time.

The pics of Sheilas " red blood " would have been taken with a proper camera used in the medical profession.

They were taken by PC Bird, there was NO medical photographer!  ::)
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 05:13:PM
They were taken by PC Bird, there was NO medical photographer!  ::)






The camera would have been-------it was no Brownie box camera. ::)
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 06:39:PM





The camera would have been-------it was no Brownie box camera. ::)

It was a bog standard SOCO camera!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 06:52:PM
If it's not a Doctor's job to estimate time of death, I doubt it's in SOCO's remit.






It's a critical question in any murder investigation-----what was the time of death.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 06:56:PM
It was a bog standard SOCO camera!






Oh it was a Brownie box then ? ::) I don't think. They NEED the clarity of a picture to investigate and magnify,not some grainy old pitted thing that shows spots where there aren't any.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:11:PM





It's a critical question in any murder investigation-----what was the time of death.

That may well be so, but unless SOCO have medical training, they're not qualified to say.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:18:PM
That may well be so, but unless SOCO have medical training, they're not qualified to say.






As I've already said Sheila's blood would have indicated the length of time she'd been dead and I feel sure that SOCO would have fathomed that one out without the need for rectal thermometers.

All the more reason why the forensic investigators SHOULD have been present-----but weren't.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:21:PM
SOCO will record times of death where/if relevant. Doubtless the information is entered on unseen records.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:24:PM





As I've already said Sheila's blood would have indicated the length of time she'd been dead and I feel sure that SOCO would have fathomed that one out without the need for rectal thermometers.

All the more reason why the forensic investigators SHOULD have been present-----but weren't.

That dreadful word SHOULD again! It seemed they didn't.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:26:PM
SOCO will record times of death where/if relevant. Doubtless the information is entered on unseen records.

When all else fails, apparently evidence exists on unseen records.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:32:PM
SOCO will record times of death where/if relevant. Doubtless the information is entered on unseen records.

Unseen is right because they reside in a fertile imagination.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:34:PM





Oh it was a Brownie box then ? ::) I don't think. They NEED the clarity of a picture to investigate and magnify,not some grainy old pitted thing that shows spots where there aren't any.

I see, now you're a photographic expert? No one other than you mentioned a box brownie - they certainly would NOT have used one of those but neither would they have used a top of the range model and Bird used one camera - the SAME camera for ALL photographs.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:35:PM
Unseen is right because they reside in a fertile imagination.






That's what you think. So SOCO carried out the WHF investigation without noting anything down ??
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:36:PM





As I've already said Sheila's blood would have indicated the length of time she'd been dead and I feel sure that SOCO would have fathomed that one out without the need for rectal thermometers.

All the more reason why the forensic investigators SHOULD have been present-----but weren't.

No it wouldn't.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:38:PM





That's what you think. So SOCO carried out the WHF investigation without noting anything down ??

They would have noted lots of things down, but not a half arsed attempt at guessing a time of death based on a method that you just made up.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:39:PM
No it wouldn't.






Yes it would----the volume of blood by her neck/shoulder. I've already explained how and why.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:40:PM





That's what you think. So SOCO carried out the WHF investigation without noting anything down ??

I haven't suggested such. All I said was that as they weren't medically qualified they wouldn't have guessed at a time of death. "Without noting anything down" is your distortion.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:41:PM





Yes it would----the volume of blood by her neck/shoulder. I've already explained how and why.

No it wouldn't
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:42:PM
The distinguishing separation of blood and serum would indicate that death had taken place over a number of hours whereas if the blood appeared gelatinous and shiny you're talking about an hour or so.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:43:PM
The distinguishing separation of blood and serum would indicate that death had taken place over a number of hours whereas if the blood appeared gelatinous and shiny you're talking about an hour or so.

And I have alread told you (and the picture of Sheila backs it up!) the blood was dried and cracked!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:44:PM





Oh it was a Brownie box then ? ::) I don't think. They NEED the clarity of a picture to investigate and magnify,not some grainy old pitted thing that shows spots where there aren't any.

My God! There's a wealth of diversity between a Box Brownie and the latest technology. In 1985 my ex had a top of the range Polaroid. No reason why such couldn't have been employed by police.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 07:45:PM
The distinguishing separation of blood and serum would indicate that death had taken place over a number of hours whereas if the blood appeared gelatinous and shiny you're talking about an hour or so.


Mmm. Except the picture shows it to be dried and cracked.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:46:PM
My God! There's a wealth of diversity between a Box Brownie and the latest technology. In 1985 my ex had a top of the range Polaroid. No reason why such couldn't have been employed by police.






They would have had a top of the range Canon DLSR ? or Minolta.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:49:PM





They would have had a top of the range Canon DLSR ? or Minolta.

No they wouldn't but what difference does that make when ALL of the pictures were taken by Bird using the same camera for ALL of the shots?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 07:53:PM
And I have alread told you (and the picture of Sheila backs it up!) the blood was dried and cracked!






Only where it was at its thinnest each side of her mouth. I'm talking about the pool of it by her neck/shoulder-----------plus that which was pouring from her neck injuries. RED.NO SERUM.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 07:57:PM





Only where it was at its thinnest each side of her mouth. I'm talking about the pool of it by her neck/shoulder-----------plus that which was pouring from her neck injuries. RED.NO SERUM.
]

To be honest, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:00:PM
]

To be honest, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.







Oh don't I ? It's you who's struggling------that's plain to see.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 08:03:PM






Oh don't I ? It's you who's struggling------that's plain to see.

I think that rather than back down you're prepared to fudge something out of existence.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 08:05:PM






Oh don't I ? It's you who's struggling------that's plain to see.

No Lookout, you don't - but here is an article about camera's used by the police. Not top of the range stuff! http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/latest/photo-news/camera-news-met-police-in-forensic-sell-off-24816
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:06:PM
I think that rather than back down you're prepared to fudge something out of existence.






I won't back down. I can assure you I don't do fudging but I know someone who does !!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 08:07:PM





I won't back down. I can assure you I don't do fudging but I know someone who does !!

Yes you do Lookout to the point of silliness.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:09:PM
Yes you do Lookout to the point of silliness.






What exactly is your aim ??
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 08:09:PM





I won't back down. I can assure you I don't do fudging but I know someone who does !!

And not backing down causes you to waffle in the hope that what you say will be believed.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:10:PM





What exactly is your aim ??






Don't expect me just to sit back and take this crap !!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:12:PM
And not backing down causes you to waffle in the hope that what you say will be believed.






Unlike yourself I DON'T expect to be believed,most definitely not by the opposition.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 08:13:PM





What exactly is your aim ??

Sensible and constructive debate without you attempting to get one over, using whatever come to mind, in your determination to be right?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:15:PM
Sensible and constructive debate without you attempting to get one over, using whatever come to mind, in your determination to be right?






But I DON'T attempt to " get one over ".It's your skewed interpretation that does that. It's not my fault that you disbelieve every post I make.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:17:PM
Post No.5 started the rot ! As per.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 08:22:PM




Thin streaks of blood such as those each side of her mouth would have dried in minutes but the pool of blood near her neck/shoulder shows up evenly spread and shiny.

Aren't SOCO members investigators ?

My understanding, is that the photograph depicting the blood running from the corners of her mouth which had dried and appear to be cracked was taken after 11.00am. This blood had leaked out of the corners of Sheila's mouth after cops rolled her into the recovery position on the bedroom floor, and onto her back again so that they could stage her supposed suicide there by placing the anshuzt rifle in her possession with the muzzle end of the guns barrel pointing in the general direction of the two bullet entry wounds situated at that stage there. Once her head finished lopping from side to side during the re-staging of her body there was no more blood to leak out of her mouth, whereas this was definitely not the case with the most recent bullet entry wound (Bullet PV/19) where blood continued to pour and leak constantly - you can see the effect of this when you examine to flows of blood on Sheila's neck, where it is fresh yet tinged with coagulating blood along the edges of the blood flow...

Here is the image I am talking about...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 08:23:PM





But I DON'T attempt to " get one over ".It's your skewed interpretation that does that. It's not my fault that you disbelieve every post I make.

That's not how it comes across, Lookout, primarily because you're never prepared to accept the possibly that someone else might be right. It causes you to make huge and glaring leaps, ie, you KNEW what sort of cameras SOCO used and if they didn't perform X,Y, and Z tasks, THEY'D got it wrong. The rest of us are prepared to admit it when we're not right or not sure. It's a rare occurance if you do.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:32:PM
That's not how it comes across, Lookout, primarily because you're never prepared to accept the possibly that someone else might be right. It causes you to make huge and glaring leaps, ie, you KNEW what sort of cameras SOCO used and if they didn't perform X,Y, and Z tasks, THEY'D got it wrong. The rest of us are prepared to admit it when we're not right or not sure. It's a rare occurance if you do.






I was GUESSING what cameras were used  ::) Why make a big deal of it ? You just continue writing in twisted riddles that are obviously meant to show me in a bad light----------which you've succeeded in doing for the benefit of the red forum. See if I care. I've come to the conclusion that you can't help yourself.

Can't you ever post something constructive yourself rather than sitting there ripping me and mine to shreds ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:38:PM
My understanding, is that the photograph depicting the blood running from the corners of her mouth which had dried and appear to be cracked was taken after 11.00am. This blood had leaked out of the corners of Sheila's mouth after cops rolled her into the recovery position on the bedroom floor, and onto her back again so that they could stage her supposed suicide there by placing the anshuzt rifle in her possession with the muzzle end of the guns barrel pointing in the general direction of the two bullet entry wounds situated at that stage there. Once her head finished lopping from side to side during the re-staging of her body there was no more blood to leak out of her mouth, whereas this was definitely not the case with the most recent bullet entry wound (Bullet PV/19) where blood continued to pour and leak constantly - you can see the effect of this when you examine to flows of blood on Sheila's neck, where it is fresh yet tinged with coagulating blood along the edges of the blood flow...

Here is the image I am talking about...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:41:PM








That is an authentic medical photograph. Taken as it happened.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 08:42:PM
My understanding, is that the photograph depicting the blood running from the corners of her mouth which had dried and appear to be cracked was taken after 11.00am. This blood had leaked out of the corners of Sheila's mouth after cops rolled her into the recovery position on the bedroom floor, and onto her back again so that they could stage her supposed suicide there by placing the anshuzt rifle in her possession with the muzzle end of the guns barrel pointing in the general direction of the two bullet entry wounds situated at that stage there. Once her head finished lopping from side to side during the re-staging of her body there was no more blood to leak out of her mouth, whereas this was definitely not the case with the most recent bullet entry wound (Bullet PV/19) where blood continued to pour and leak constantly - you can see the effect of this when you examine to flows of blood on Sheila's neck, where it is fresh yet tinged with coagulating blood along the edges of the blood flow...

Here is the image I am talking about...

Also please note, that somebody attempted to prevent the blood escaping from the second (Fatal) wound immediately after the second shot was fired - you can see evidence of this on the surface of Sheila Caffells neck, where the blood flow from the 2nd bullet entry wound has flowed over what appears to be two bloodied fingermark impressions around and against the wound in question! Now, who was responsible for making those / these bloodied fingermarks? Surely, not Sheila because we have heard how spotlessly clean her hands and fingers were supposed to have been (however, that's a lie), but lets say for arguments sake that those bloodied fingermarks were made by her - how then did the fingers of her right or her left hand end up resting on the gun, or as though she had been holding the barrel end of the gun (see her left hand which appears to be effected by cadaveric spasm)?

Were the two bloodied fingermarks, from Sheila's killer, or those who tried to keep her alive immediately after the 2nd fatal shot was inflicted during the performing of 'INFORMATIVES'?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 08:44:PM
What are 'INFORMATIVES'?

Why do the police perform them, whilst the bodies of victims are in situ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 08, 2018, 08:46:PM
They wouldn't have been Sheila's prints after the second shot.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 08, 2018, 08:47:PM





I was GUESSING what cameras were used  ::) Why make a big deal of it ? You just continue writing in twisted riddles that are obviously meant to show me in a bad light----------which you've succeeded in doing for the benefit of the red forum. See if I care. I've come to the conclusion that you can't help yourself.

Can't you ever post something constructive yourself rather than sitting there ripping me and mine to shreds ?

All you have to do is say you're guessing -but I suspect you prefer that you're believed- it would be a more acceptable and honest approach as opposed to just contradicting my suggestion that it might have been a Polaroid. It's you who show yourself in a bad light, Lookout, and you've just done it again. I've  said and done nothing "for the benefit of the red forum". You obviously look at what's said there so be my guest and check me out. I last posted there yesterday or the day before. Your name wasn't mentioned.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 08:59:PM
What are 'INFORMATIVES'?

Why do the police perform them, whilst the bodies of victims are in situ?
Why do the guilty camp proclaim at every available opportunity that it was Jeremy Bamber who staged his sisters death there on the main bedroom floor, when that proposition would have been an impossibility!

Impossible, because between 7.35am until 8.10am, Sheila's body was the female body reportedly documented, via police messages and audio recording, as being present downstairs in the kitchen? All the absolute garbage about this coming about because an officer supposedly made a mistake when he looked through the kitchen window, thinking that he had seen the body of a dead female, which 'lo and behold' turned out to be the body of Neville Bamber, is fanciful to say the least! It's fanciful, and ludicrous because according to 'the timed contemporaneous police message log contents', in all instances reference is made to the finding of a dead male body, prior to mention of there also being one dead female body!

The lies which Essex police have sought to rely upon, and which they have brainwashed the general public at large into believing, simply does not stack up, or make any sense whatsoever, since - how can an officer have looked through the kitchen window and report that he can see a dead female, if upon entry into the premises at 7.35am it gets reported that two bodies are present downstairs in the kitchen, not the body of one dead female and the body of one dead male, but rather the body of one dead male 'AND' the body of one dead female?

Please, everyone must cease from believing the nonsense that Essex police and its supporters are spouting off about, there is absolutely no record that a female body was seen or found prior to any mention of there being a dead male in the kitchen...

7.37am - 'The body of One dead male' AND 'The Body of One dead female, found upon entry'...

7.38am - 'One Dead Male', AND 'One Dead Female'...

7.42am - 'Can someone contact the police surgeon and the coroners officer, regarding two bodies'...

7.45am - Can you come on duty to the office, because police are dealing with an incident at whf involving two bodies, a murder and a suicide'...

8.10am - 'After a thorough search of the premises, a further three bodies have been found upstairs, five dead in total'...

Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:12:PM
How utterly bizarre, that this version of the events which consist of timed contemporaneously recorded police radio message is at odds with the witness statement version of the events concerning the number of dead bodies reportedly found upon entry, both downstairs in the kitchen, and upstairs in bedrooms!

Police Radio Message log - 'two bodies downstairs in kitchen upon entry, a further three bodies found upstairs' (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and 8.10am) 'five dead' in total 'VERSUS' The witness statement version of the events, Only One body found downstairs upon entry to the premise, the other four bodies found upstairs in bedrooms (no timings regarding when they came upon the bodies of all five victims)...

Essex police are corrupt, and so is the local CPS...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:19:PM
How utterly bizarre, that this version of the events which consist of timed contemporaneously recorded police radio message is at odds with the witness statement version of the events concerning the number of dead bodies reportedly found upon entry, both downstairs in the kitchen, and upstairs in bedrooms!

Police Radio Message log - 'two bodies downstairs in kitchen upon entry, a further three bodies found upstairs' (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and 8.10am) 'five dead' in total 'VERSUS' The witness statement version of the events, Only One body found downstairs upon entry to the premise, the other four bodies found upstairs in bedrooms (no timings regarding when they came upon the bodies of all five victims)...

Essex police are corrupt, and so is the local CPS...

Add to this the mystery surrounding the bullet (PV/20) which was recovered by Peter Venezis during autopsy which was said to be a piece of badly fragmented bullet at the time of its recovery from Sheila's neck on the 7th August 1985, became somehow transformed into a whole bullet by the 20th September 1985, to enable the crowns ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher to refer to it (PV/20) as a 'WHOLE' bullet, and that 'it' and the other bullet recovered from Sheila's brain, had both been fired from the very self same anshuzt rifle, effectively suggesting that in Sheila Caffells case, her death was a one gun crime, when if the truth be known she was shot and killed by the use of two different .22 rifles (the .22 Brno bolt action rifle belonging to Anthony Pargeter, and the .22 semi-automatic rifle belonging to Neville Bamber)...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:29:PM
Add to this the mystery surrounding the bullet (PV/20) which was recovered by Peter Venezis during autopsy which was said to be a piece of badly fragmented bullet at the time of its recovery from Sheila's neck on the 7th August 1985, became somehow transformed into a whole bullet by the 20th September 1985, to enable the crowns ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher to refer to it (PV/20) as a 'WHOLE' bullet, and that 'it' and the other bullet recovered from Sheila's brain, had both been fired from the very self same anshuzt rifle, effectively suggesting that in Sheila Caffells case, her death was a one gun crime, when if the truth be known she was shot and killed by the use of two different .22 rifles (the .22 Brno bolt action rifle belonging to Anthony Pargeter, and the .22 semi-automatic rifle belonging to Neville Bamber)...

The original bullet, or piece of a bullet (PV/20) did not get tampered with, without a good reason, for Essex police to justify to themselves that it was necessary to protect themselves from being implicated in the death of Sheila Caffell...

They 'tampered with the first bullet (PV/20) received by Sheila across her neck downstairs in the kitchen', at a time when the second rifle (the anshuzt rifle) was resting against a first floor box room window, and which effectively could not have been the weapon which fired the initial shot (bullet PV/20)...

They tampered with the blood flow from the second wound (Bullet PV/19), by touching such a significant part of Sheila Caffells neck, in an attempt to try and stem the flow of blood from the fatal 2nd bullet wound....

'BIG MISTAKE', since if anybody else other than the police had been responsible for doing that / this it would have been first in line for reference to at the trial of Jeremy Bamber...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:36:PM


I know exactly which image you are talking about, its the same one as the picture with the driced cracked blood. Enhanced!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:37:PM
How utterly bizarre, that this version of the events which consist of timed contemporaneously recorded police radio message is at odds with the witness statement version of the events concerning the number of dead bodies reportedly found upon entry, both downstairs in the kitchen, and upstairs in bedrooms!

Police Radio Message log - 'two bodies downstairs in kitchen upon entry, a further three bodies found upstairs' (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and 8.10am) 'five dead' in total 'VERSUS' The witness statement version of the events, Only One body found downstairs upon entry to the premise, the other four bodies found upstairs in bedrooms (no timings regarding when they came upon the bodies of all five victims)...

Essex police are corrupt, and so is the local CPS...

Mike, why did you post the bible (on the other thread) open at Luke 12?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:42:PM
The original bullet, or piece of a bullet (PV/20) did not get tampered with, without a good reason, for Essex police to justify to themselves that it was necessary to protect themselves from being implicated in the death of Sheila Caffell...

They 'tampered with the first bullet (PV/20) received by Sheila across her neck downstairs in the kitchen', at a time when the second rifle (the anshuzt rifle) was resting against a first floor box room window, and which effectively could not have been the weapon which fired the initial shot (bullet PV/20)...

They tampered with the blood flow from the second wound (Bullet PV/19), by touching such a significant part of Sheila Caffells neck, in an attempt to try and stem the flow of blood from the fatal 2nd bullet wound....

'BIG MISTAKE', since if anybody else other than the police had been responsible for doing that / this it would have been first in line for reference to at the trial of Jeremy Bamber...

Lets look at the now known facts...

Whoever was responsible for making those two bloodied fingermarks around or against the 2nd fatal neck shot entry wound, was responsible for killing Sheila Caffell. That person could not possibly have been Jeremy Bamber, for obvious reasons...

The person responsible for making those marks was a police officer...

If any of you can't work out what this establishes in the grand scheme of things, then I am afraid there simply is no hope for you ever being able to see the light...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:44:PM
Mike, why did you post the bible (on the other thread) open at Luke 12?

Because of inquiries that Essex police made to the local vicar, as mentioned in certain police action reports...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:44:PM





Don't expect me just to sit back and take this crap !!

Take what Lookout? Being asked to back up your claims? I've posted evidence of the type of cameras used by SOCO, you have just made wild claims.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:45:PM
Because of inquiries that Essex police made to the local vicar, as mentioned in certain police action reports...

Yes, I know they asked about the psalm but not Luke 12, Do you have this report?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:48:PM
Lets look at the now known facts...

Whoever was responsible for making those two bloodied fingermarks around or against the 2nd fatal neck shot entry wound, was responsible for killing Sheila Caffell. That person could not possibly have been Jeremy Bamber, for obvious reasons...

The person responsible for making those marks was a police officer...

If any of you can't work out what this establishes in the grand scheme of things, then I am afraid there simply is no hope for you ever being able to see the light...

OK...

For Jeremy to have been the killer, why would he attempt to stop the blood flow from the second shot to Sheila's neck? Had Jeremy been that person, we are talking in terms of him having done so some 7 hours or more prior to the time the police eventually got around to taking the photographs which show the bloodied fingermarks around or against the fatal 2nd shot bullet entry wound...

Forget any notion whatsoever that Jeremy had shot and killed his sister, because he didn't, and he couldn't have...

It's impossible for him to be his sisters killer....
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 09:49:PM
Yes, I know they asked about the psalm but not Luke 12, Do you have this report?

I have all the action reports...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:57:PM
I have all the action reports...

It's just the part that refers to Luke 12 that I am interested in, can you post it please?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 10:02:PM
I have all the action reports...

In addition - there were many handwritten notes containing reference to extracts taken from the bible, believed to have been written out by June Bamber, and or Sheila Caffell...

'Not peace, but Division'...

'From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against mother, mother in law against daughter in law, and daughter in law against mother in law'...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 08, 2018, 10:03:PM
It's just the part that refers to Luke 12 that I am interested in, can you post it please?

 I will when I lay my hands upon it, of course...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 10:10:PM
I will when I lay my hands upon it, of course...

Thanks - I think you will find the reason why I am asking - very interesting.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 10:49:AM
I know exactly which image you are talking about, its the same one as the picture with the driced cracked blood. Enhanced!






Enhanced by whom ? And how ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 11:04:AM
I believe Mike quoted a verse from Luke 12 re.division.Headed Not Peace but Division.;

 "5 in one family divided against each other,3 against 2 and 2 against 3.They will be divided father against son and son against father,mother against daughter and daughter against mother,mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law ".
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 11:07:AM
Luke 11 contains The Lord's Prayer.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 09, 2018, 11:53:AM





Enhanced by whom ? And how ?

By whom? - The Italian solicitor
How? With photo editing software 
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 09, 2018, 11:54:AM
Luke 11 contains The Lord's Prayer.

I know what it contains, I'd lie to know why it was mentioned.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 12:08:PM
By whom? - The Italian solicitor
How? With photo editing software






So shouldn't they have been destroyed if they weren't authentic------------as in enhanced and not real ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 12:12:PM
Would it surprise you then if I said that deceased persons aren't exactly photogenic when they've been dead for hours ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 12:14:PM
Would it surprise you then if I said that deceased persons aren't exactly photogenic when they've been dead for hours ?





So shouldn't they have been destroyed if they weren't authentic------------as in enhanced and not real ?

Since when were rules, laws, and guidelines strictly adhered to?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 12:16:PM
Would it surprise you then if I said that deceased persons aren't exactly photogenic when they've been dead for hours ?


No. But what IS surprising is you thinking there's the need to tell us.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 12:19:PM

No. But what IS surprising is you thinking there's the need to tell us.






Yes,because it's a fact that Sheila hadn't been dead for hours.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 12:21:PM





Yes,because it's a fact that Sheila hadn't been dead for hours.

No it's not.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 12:21:PM
I don't want to appear morbid or disrespectful in any way but have you ever seen anyone who's been dead for say,4 hours ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 12:54:PM
No it's not.






It is a fact.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Steve_uk on June 09, 2018, 12:57:PM
The question is whether Sheila's body was markedly different from the other victims and whether this can be explained away by natural causes or not.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 01:06:PM
The question is whether Sheila's body was markedly different from the other victims and whether this can be explained away by natural causes or not.

And into that equation must be factored her age and other variables.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 01:28:PM
Since when were rules, laws, and guidelines strictly adhered to?






Since the destruction of evidence by incineration in 1996 ?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 01:33:PM





Since the destruction of evidence by incineration in 1996 ?

Are you trying to say this had never occurred until the Bamber case?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 01:36:PM
Are you trying to say this had never occurred until the Bamber case?






This is the only report of incineration I 've read------yes.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 02:05:PM
Only last week it had been reported that a child's clothes from the Moors murders were still in possession of the police.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 02:15:PM





This is the only report of incineration I 've read------yes.

That's not to say that there aren't some you haven't read.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 02:51:PM
That's not to say that there aren't some you haven't read.






I'm sure it would have been well reported. As these things are.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: David1819 on June 09, 2018, 03:17:PM
The dried blood around her mouth with no sign of any spluttering, shows she has been a dead for quite some time. The blood pooled in her armpit is also dark. The picture promoted by the Italian is a fraud.


Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: David1819 on June 09, 2018, 03:26:PM
The picture promoted by the Italian is a fraud.


Are the other photos unconnected to the Italian showing the same thing frauds also?  ::)

If not then I guess Jeremy instructed Sheila to shoot herself after sunrise while ordering her to lock the front door behind him as he left back to Goldhanger.  ???
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Steve_uk on June 09, 2018, 03:35:PM

Are the other photos unconnected to the Italian showing the same thing frauds also?  ::)

If not then I guess Jeremy instructed Sheila to shoot herself after sunrise while ordering her to lock the front door behind him as he left back to Goldhanger.  ???
You can't refute the comment about dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth, whether or not Police shot her, gave her CPR or moved her corpse in some other way.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 03:49:PM
You can't refute the comment about dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth, whether or not Police shot her, gave her CPR or moved her corpse in some other way.





Steve that cracked blood which ran from her mouth wasn't thick so would have dried against the warmth of her face initially before she started to cool down. Also the atmosphere of the room was warm which too makes a difference .
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 03:50:PM
The real test is in a pool of blood such as that which had pooled around her neck/shoulder.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 04:04:PM
The real test is in a pool of blood such as that which had pooled around her neck/shoulder.

A straight line of fluid is likely to dry much faster than the puddle which forms at the end of it.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: David1819 on June 09, 2018, 04:09:PM
You can't refute the comment about dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth, whether or not Police shot her, gave her CPR or moved her corpse in some other way.

I don't challenge that. The blood on her mouth was a thin stream.

You can even see the edges drying while the centre is still in a gel like state.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 04:13:PM
Which indicates that Sheila hadn't been dead much above an hour or so as there's no sign of separation.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Steve_uk on June 09, 2018, 04:15:PM
But could this gel-like appearance have been caused by the body having been moved in some way?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 04:18:PM
But could this gel-like appearance have been caused by the body having been moved in some way?






No Steve. For blood to be visually gelatinous indicates that death hadn't occurred for very long.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 04:23:PM





No Steve. For blood to be visually gelatinous indicates that death hadn't occurred for very long.

Providing it was "visually gelatinous" blood in the picture and not a picture which had been doctored to maker it appear so. For someone who trusts no one, you seem to put great faith in the questionable. Numerous pictures we've been shown here fall into that category.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 04:41:PM
Providing it was "visually gelatinous" blood in the picture and not a picture which had been doctored to maker it appear so. For someone who trusts no one, you seem to put great faith in the questionable. Numerous pictures we've been shown here fall into that category.





It matters not what the quality of the picture is there'd been no mention about the appearance of the blood.What has my trust got to do with anything ?  ::)
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Jane on June 09, 2018, 04:45:PM




It matters not what the quality of the picture is there'd been no mention about the appearance of the blood.What has my trust got to do with anything ?  ::)

Mea culpa. I had thought you were referring to a picture posted here without knowing, or questioning it's provenance.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 09, 2018, 04:55:PM
That's okay.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2018, 06:36:PM
Talking of pictures and photographs that were taken at the scene by the two teams of SOCO...

This also includes video footage of the crime scenes in various parts of the farmhouse, before senior officers started to tamper with them as part of their so called 'INFORMATIVES' taken by the first SOCO team consisting of DC Henderson and DC Oakey...

Almost 400 photographs which were taken at the scene of this incident were never disclosed and primarily these were the ones taken and captured by Henderson and Oakey...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2018, 06:37:PM
What we are dealing with here, is police corruption at its worst...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 09, 2018, 06:39:PM
It is known that Henderson and Oakey took over 358 photographs during a one hour period when senior officers were contemplating, and then re-staging the death scenes of the 3 adult victims ('INFORMATIVES')...

PC Bird (2nd SOCO team) took almost 223 other photographs...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 14, 2018, 02:03:PM
It is known that Henderson and Oakey took over 358 photographs during a one hour period when senior officers were contemplating, and then re-staging the death scenes of the 3 adult victims ('INFORMATIVES')...

PC Bird (2nd SOCO team) took almost 223 other photographs...

Have you come across the Luke 12 document yet Mike?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 14, 2018, 03:49:PM
According to Dr Gillingham the Bible was face downwards on Psalms 51-55. Doc.A4pdf.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 14, 2018, 04:06:PM
According to Dr Gillingham the Bible was face downwards on Psalms 51-55. Doc.A4pdf.

Who?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 14, 2018, 07:03:PM
Who?






Dr.Gillingham a theologian.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 14, 2018, 07:19:PM
Dr.Susan Gillingham spoke on behalf of JB at the trial but apparently on studying the Psalms 51-55 there weren't enough grounds within the wording of the passages to prove that Sheila had been religious. She came to the conclusion that Psalms 51-55 were of no relevance as Sheila hadn't been religious.

This came about when there was " talk " of the open pages which were noted from the Bible on the floor.
EP had said the Bible had been open at those pages.

Shows how wrong they can be  ::)
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Steve_uk on June 14, 2018, 07:22:PM
Dr.Susan Gillingham spoke on behalf of JB at the trial but apparently on studying the Psalms 51-55 there weren't enough grounds within the wording of the passages to prove that Sheila had been religious. She came to the conclusion that Psalms 51-55 were of no relevance.

This came about when there was " talk " of the open pages which were noted from the Bible on the floor.
EP had said the Bible had been open at those pages.

Shows how wrong they can be  ::)
This post could also go on the Bible thread.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 14, 2018, 07:25:PM
This post could also go on the Bible thread.






I suppose so really.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 14, 2018, 07:49:PM
Dr.Susan Gillingham spoke on behalf of JB at the trial but apparently on studying the Psalms 51-55 there weren't enough grounds within the wording of the passages to prove that Sheila had been religious. She came to the conclusion that Psalms 51-55 were of no relevance as Sheila hadn't been religious.

This came about when there was " talk " of the open pages which were noted from the Bible on the floor.
EP had said the Bible had been open at those pages.

Shows how wrong they can be  ::)

So at which page(s) was the bible open?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: lookout on June 14, 2018, 07:54:PM
So at which page(s) was the bible open?





You wouldn't know when the pages were splayed out like they were. It was no particular page.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 14, 2018, 07:58:PM




You wouldn't know when the pages were splayed out like they were. It was no particular page.

Well it was a particular page but I doubt the police realised that it might be important at the time and chose the psalm's because of the large blood stain (palm print). However, I'd like to see the document Mike referred to.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 14, 2018, 09:19:PM
Well it was a particular page but I doubt the police realised that it might be important at the time and chose the psalm's because of the large blood stain (palm print). However, I'd like to see the document Mike referred to.

Yes, I am still trying to source it from amongst the thousands of documents that I saved from destruction in 2003 / 2004...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: Caroline on June 14, 2018, 09:51:PM
Yes, I am still trying to source it from amongst the thousands of documents that I saved from destruction in 2003 / 2004...

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 15, 2018, 05:17:PM
Thanks.

I am currently dealing with more pressing matters, but I will search my archives for the material in question, and post it on our forum for consideration..
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 15, 2018, 05:35:PM
I know that in the wake of the Essex police investigation into these deaths, that the police were satisfied that Sheila Caffell could have shot and killed each of the other 4 victims!
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 15, 2018, 05:42:PM
I know that in the wake of the Essex police investigation into these deaths, that the police were satisfied that Sheila Caffell could have shot and killed each of the other 4 victims!
The claim that Sheila had not shot herself is 'inaccurate', but the police shot her once at the time of the entry of the firearm officers into the kitchen (7.35am, or thereabouts), and secondly they shot her dead upstairs on the main bedroom floor, after her body had found its way onto the top of the parents bed, and been transferred onto the bedroom floor during police informative...

Please rest assured...

That whilst ever Sheila Caffell was laid on the kitchen floor behind the kitchen door, and whilst her body was later resting on top of her parents bed, that Sheila was still almost barely alive...

Once the cops moved Sheila's body from that bed onto the bedroom floor, she was shot and died, instantaneously!

The time of death was therefore linked to the timing of the second shot (9.13am), and because Sheila was killed off at that time, Jeremy Bamber could not possibly have had anything whatsoever to do with his sister's death...
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: David1819 on June 15, 2018, 06:12:PM
I am currently dealing with more pressing matters, but I will search my archives for the material in question, and post it on our forum for consideration..


Mike is there any chance you can post the index papers for COLP Box 57?
Title: Re: The Undisclosed - handwritten, 'SCENES OF CRIME REGISTER ENTRIES'
Post by: mike tesko on June 16, 2018, 10:22:AM

Mike is there any chance you can post the index papers for COLP Box 57?

Of course..