Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on October 01, 2018, 09:34:AM
-
After a long hard consideration of Julie Mugford's evidence, it becomes clear that she was more involved in the drugs scene than she has Made out, not only helping Jeremy to cultivate plants, and selling it at college, but she took part in smuggling drugs through Customs! In addition she was a fraudster and a burglar. She claims that she was not money orientated, but the £25,000 News of the World payout for her story if she helped to convict Jeremy Bamber of the murders was grabbed eagerly with both hands...
-
Julie was a woman scorned'!
-
Julie was a woman scorned'!
She states that she couldn't go to police during the first month because Jeremy had told her that she was an accomplice and would receive the same punishment as him! She didn't like it that Jeremy had got such a hold over her!
-
But what Julie Mugford' does not say, is that Jeremy was only talking about her involvement along with him in the burgalry at Osea Road Camp site Office, the drug cultivating, the drug dealing, the drug smuggling through Customs and the cheque book frauds they had been involved in together!
-
What becomes clear from reading her previously missing 10 September 1985 statement consisting of 24 handwritten pages, was that at a time when she knew she was trapped as an accomplice of Jeremy's she found out that the screening of 'Fatal Vision' on the TV freaked Jeremy out, and this caused her to study the murder case involving a man by the name of Macdonald who got convicted of killing his wife and children, and who had spent nine years incarcerated before being cleared! Mugford' must have realised how easy it was to get the police to believe what somebody might be capable of saying, and get someone convicted and sentenced, and that she took the opportunity to turn the cards on Jeremy by falsely claiming that he had been planning to murder his family for the previous 12 months or so, and that he had hired a hit man to murder his family for a fee of £2000...
-
What becomes clear from reading her previously missing 10 September 1985 statement consisting of 24 handwritten pages, was that at a time when she knew she was trapped as an accomplice of Jeremy's she found out that the screening of 'Fatal Vision' on the TV freaked Jeremy out, and this caused her to study the murder case involving a man by the name of Macdonald who got convicted of killing his wife and children, and who had spent nine years incarcerated before being cleared! Mugford' must have realised how easy it was to get the police to believe what somebody might be capable of saying, and get someone convicted and sentenced, and that she took the opportunity to turn the cards on Jeremy by falsely claiming that he had been planning to murder his family for the previous 12 months or so, and that he had hired a hit man to murder his family for a fee of £2000...
I do not think it is a mere coincidence, that she introduced Mathew MacDonald as the hired assassin in her script - she got the idea from 'Fatal Vision'..
-
I do not think it is a mere coincidence, that she introduced Mathew MacDonald as the hired assassin in her script - she got the idea from 'Fatal Vision'..
I guess in her warped state of mind, she must have been trying to see if she could get Mathew MacDonald arrested and convicted of the whf murders, replicating what had happened in the film. But, Mathew MacDonald had an air tight alibi and had to be released! Once Mugford' realized that/this she introduced the point about Jeremy arranging for Mathew MacDonald to commit the actual murders, so that Jeremy would become a suspect as well!
-
However...
Jeremy was released on bail a couple of days later and only charged with burgalry at Osea Road Caravan Park offices...
-
Mugford's script did not involve the hitman Mathew MacDonald using a silencer on the guns barrel when he shot everyone including Sheila Caffell, or that after Sheila had been shot that her killer had removed the silencer from the gun, before staging her death scene as a suicide and taking the silencer all the way Downstairs to conceal 'it' inside an ammunition box, inside a cupboard under the stairs in the downstairs office known as the den...
Also..
Mugford' knew nothing about scratch marks being present on the kitchen mantelpiece at whf which to all intents and purposes only materialised there after the dates Mugford' made her statements!
-
She had morbid thoughts like wanting to touch the dead bodies!
-
From memory the guy in Fatal Vision was soon back in jail and is still there today , he was guilty.
-
From memory the guy in Fatal Vision was soon back in jail and is still there today , he was guilty.
I haven't seen the film yet, or the series, but I intend to watch it on You Tube during the next week or so!
All I'm saying, is that the program was televised at about the time Julie Mugford' came forward, and I think it left a mark upon her which motivated her to get her revenge on Jeremy, who had demonstrated to her, that he had a hold over her, insofar as her involvement along with Jeremy in the drugs, fraud and burgalry businesses!
-
You should watch it , its a very good programme and an even better book.
-
You should watch it , its a very good programme and an even better book.
I started watching some of 'it' last night, and the gist is that Dr Jeffrey MacDonald was originally convicted of murdering his wife and two young children in a somewhat bizzarre set of circumstances! All the victims were stabbed to death, including MacDonald who turned out to be the only survivor! His wife and children were all stabbed in frenzied attacks whilst apparently all sleeping. MacDonald was sleeping on the sofa and awoke to the cries of his wife and children being attacked by three men. He was also slashed or stabbed in the same incident, before the attackers fled. There was also a mysterious woman present who appeared to have blond hair and wore a hat. MacDonald phoned for help claiming that his family had all been stabbed, etc...
The attacks happenned at around 3.00am, and rather bizzarrely the alarm was raised by telephone at 3.42am a call that was received by the operator at that time - these times strangely enough hold some significance in the whf case, for example, after Jeremy Bamber had telephoned the police at 3.36am, the police asked the operator to check the telephone line at the farmhouse at 3.42am, and found that the the phones handset was off the hook...
The crime scene in the MacDonald case was not properly examined, with the authorities quickly jumping to the conclusion that the husband/father had killed his family and staged the crime scene as though the family had been attacked by other people!
The investigation had a drugs connection, albeit this involved Dr MacDonalds refusal to prescribe medication to war veterans who were traumatised with battle fatigue and or PTSD, etc..
I will return to the rest of the film/documentary probably later on tonight!
-
It's an interesting case for sure, the blood and fibre evidence was pretty damning at trial against Mcdonald, I am of the opinion he is guilty , his story of intruders does not add up imo
I'm reading the Carol Ann Lee book and at page 272 she says it was Jeremy who had mentioned to Julie after the murders that he had seen Fatal Vision
-
The Bamberettes might be hoping for a Helena Stoeckley-type confession from Julie, though they will wait in vain. https://youtu.be/HBqkx2SYQbY
-
It's an interesting case for sure, the blood and fibre evidence was pretty damning at trial against Mcdonald, I am of the opinion he is guilty , his story of intruders does not add up imo
I'm reading the Carol Ann Lee book and at page 272 she says it was Jeremy who had mentioned to Julie after the murders that he had seen Fatal Vision
Yes, Jeremy mentioned it to Julie asking her if she had seen it on TV - Julie responded that she had seen the first episode only. Jeremy told her it freaked him out and that he couldn't bear to watch any more of it. He said it was uncanny how it was being broadcast on TV so close to the time of the shooting tragedy involving his own family..
-
The Bamberettes might be hoping for a Helena Stoeckley-type confession from Julie, though they will wait in vain. https://youtu.be/HBqkx2SYQbY
I believe that Essex police will be forced to release the drugs squad file that contains all the surveillance information obtained involving Jeremy Bambers illicit drug dealing activities, including phone tap evidence confirming that Jeremy did receive a telephone call from Neville Bamber on the morning of the shootings and that the gist of what Jeremy later revealed to Chelmsford police at 3.36am was the truth. It will also be confirmed that after Neville had phoned Jeremy, that Neville had phoned police himself at 3.26am, and that the contents recorded in the 3.26am log were accurately recorded insofar as what Neville Bamber had told the police at that time. It will also confirm that Jeremy had made several attempts to ring Neville back unsuccessfully and that Jeremy kept getting a constant engaged tone, and that the reason for this was that Neville was already talking to the police at Chelmsford at that time! Neville Bamber would have known that by ringing Witham police station at that time of the morning that if there was no-one there to take his call that his call would be automatically switched to the control room at Chelmsford police station. Therefore, the telephone records obtained under the telecommunications act warrant, will confirm that this was the route that Neville's call to police at 3.26am had taken! It will also be confirmed that after failing to re-establish contact with his father, that Jeremy had then tried unsuccessfully to contact Witham police station but that the phone equipment at the other end of the line kept ringing out. This would have occurred because at that time, the automatic switch system was already in use dealing with the switch of Neville Bambers call to Chelmsford police station. The phone tap records held as part of the drugs operation which was already ongoing since before the shooting tragedy will also confirm that after failing to make contact with the police at Witham police station, that Jeremy had then telephoned Julie Mugford' at 3.30am, and said to her that 'there's something wrong at the farm', and she had simply told him 'to go back to bed', and that after this call Jeremy had then made his 3.36am call to Chelmsford police as per the phone log record, and that Jeremy's call to the police on this occasion had lasted exactly 9 minutes in duration until 3.44am / 3.45am at which point Jeremy was told to go to white house farm where he would be met by police who had already been deployed to the incident! It took Jeremy Bamber all of 7 minutes to quickly get himself dressed, get downstairs and out into his astra car and drive to the farm along a route that would normally take around 7 minutes to negotiate driving at a normal speed! I believe that he was initially driving at a much faster speed than normal until he noticed the flashing lights of the police car hurtling along the Tollsbury road behind him, which must have momentarily caused Jeremy to think that the police were going to stop him for speeding along, hence why he slowed the car right down to about 30 MPH despite the road having a 60 MPH speed limit. In any event the suggestion that Jeremy had been taking his time on getting to white house farm on that occasion is only partially true, because as I say he was speeding during the first part of that journey but slowed down once the police came along fast behind him with its lights flashing, and from that point onwards Jeremy continued to drive at a much lower speed than the speed limit for the road, hence why Jeremy arrived some 3 - 4 minutes at the scene after police had already got there. The phone tap records which were part of the ongoing drugs operation will confirm all that has been spoken about here. The operation itself was actually being run from Southend police station headed by a DI Soanes...
-
Separate Crime reference files were kept at Southend police station for the five deaths, than were created at Chelmsford police station - for example, at Chelmsford a general Crime reference of 'SC/688/85' was created which deal with the five deaths collectively, this was because at Southend police station, Sheila Caffell was also part of the drugs squad undercover operation, and because she ended up dead at the scene whilst the drugs squad operation was ongoing, Southend police took precedence over Chelmsford in creating individual crime reference files for each of the five victims, including Sheila who as I say was one of the suspected target criminals in the drugs investigation (I have these Southend police Crime reference numbers in my possession)! Freddie Emani was another who was being investigated as part of the same undercover operation, so was Julie Mugford' and all the other students who lived in the same building in bedsits close to her room...
All the missing evidence is being kept at Southend police station, the defence never got to see hardly any of this material, and would only have been given access to some of it if they could prove that it's disclosure would tend to prove let's say Jeremy Bambers innocence! The problem would have been then, and it is the same now, that the defence would have had to specify the evidence they are seeking to rely upon and give a valid reason for why that document or that evidence should be released, without having it confirmed beforehand that such a document or such information actually existed at all in the first instance! (Pii rules of evidence, and disclosure apply)...
The drugs operation files held at Southend police station is the way forward - they have got evidence proving that Jeremy Bamber did receive that early morning telephone call from Neville Bamber, it's contained and has been retained for over 33 years under a telecommunications act warrant (pii), which can in unusual circumstances be obtained for use in Jeremy Bambers defence providing he can specify the document / evidence he wants or needs, and gives a justifiable reason or ground why that information or documents should be released!
-
On the matter of Julie Mugford's complicity in committing a whole host of serious criminal offences, she did not tell the jury that at the time she was making all these witness statements to Essex police that she was being put up in police digs and that the police were paying all of her expenses! Neither did she 'fess up to having already signed the £25,000 contract for her exclusive story if she helped to get Jeremy Bamber convicted of the murders! Furthermore, she also failed to tell the jury or the court, that during the trial that the News of the World were paying a five star hotel bill for Julie Mugford' and her mother to stay in prior to giving her evidence!
It was Criminal that the trial judge Drake told the jury in his summing up that they could convict Jeremy of the five murders on Mugford's evidence alone! Especially if the judge knew about her expenses all being paid by the police and the News of the World!
-
On the matter of Julie Mugford's complicity in committing a whole host of serious criminal offences, she did not tell the jury that at the time she was making all these witness statements to Essex police that she was being put up in police digs and that the police were paying all of her expenses! Neither did she 'fess up to having already signed the £25,000 contract for her exclusive story if she helped to get Jeremy Bamber convicted of the murders! Furthermore, she also failed to tell the jury or the court, that during the trial that the News of the World were paying a five star hotel bill for Julie Mugford' and her mother to stay in prior to giving her evidence!
It was Criminal that the trial judge Drake told the jury in his summing up that they could convict Jeremy of the five murders on Mugford's evidence alone! Especially if the judge knew about her expenses all being paid by the police and the News of the World!
If I recall he advised the jury to treat her evidence with a great deal of caution, though admittedly it's unclear as to how they individually reached their decision.
-
If I recall he advised the jury to treat her evidence with a great deal of caution, though admittedly it's unclear as to how they individually reached their decision.
What Drake said is not evidence, he wasn't a witness in the case, he was the trial judge, who was there to deal with points of law which in my opinion he failed miserably when dealing with the testimony of Julie Mugford', particularly if the judge knew about the News of the World Contract and the fact that she stood to benefit financially should Jeremy be convicted of the murders! If he didn't know anything whatsoever about it, why did the prosecuting authorities keep that information from the trial judge? Why did the solicitor acting for Julie Mugford' fail to bring this matter to the judges attention, and more importantly, why did Mugford' herself keep her big gob tightly shut regarding the deal?
-
it was a biased summing up , clearly the judge thought JB guilty.
-
it was a biased summing up , clearly the judge thought JB guilty.
I have put all public domain snippets of it here
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059)
-
From memory the guy in Fatal Vision was soon back in jail and is still there today , he was guilty.
He was not "soon back in jail" he was convicted 9 years after the murders.
-
He was not "soon back in jail" he was convicted 9 years after the murders.
I did say "from memory" , at least he is back where he belongs.
-
Yes, Jeremy mentioned it to Julie asking her if she had seen it on TV - Julie responded that she had seen the first episode only. Jeremy told her it freaked him out and that he couldn't bear to watch any more of it. He said it was uncanny how it was being broadcast on TV so close to the time of the shooting tragedy involving his own family..
..