Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:48:PM

Title: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 05, 2018, 12:48:PM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 05, 2018, 07:12:PM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...
This will probably remain a mystery. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,580.0.html
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 06, 2018, 02:41:AM
The pathologist noted during autopsy performed on the corpse of Sheila Caffell that she had a very recently inflicted injury to her body which had been covered with a plaster...

This could be another reason why the upstairs bathroom light was found on when they arrived.  She used it to wash her hands and/or put this plaster on.

If Jeremy had a recent injury like this one we wouldn’t hear the end of it.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 07, 2018, 03:10:PM
This could be another reason why the upstairs bathroom light was found on when they arrived.  She used it to wash her hands and/or put this plaster on.

If Jeremy had a recent injury like this one we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 03:41:PM
So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)

But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 07, 2018, 04:03:PM
So she puts on a plaster just before shooting herself?  ::)

Nothing far fetched given her mental state. Don’t have to literally be “just before” either.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 07, 2018, 05:01:PM
Nothing far fetched given her mental state. Don’t have to literally be “just before” either.

Or at all - means nothing and she was on medication.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 07, 2018, 05:58:PM
But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..

Why did Sheila stalk Nevill and wait for him to realise the other had been shot Mike ?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 06:34:PM
Why did Sheila stalk Nevill and wait for him to realise the other had been shot Mike ?

Adam, I am as convinced as I can be, that Neville Bamber was not present inside the farmhouse when June and her two grandchildren were shot to bits, and killed...

In this narrative, Sheila would have easily been able to dispatch her two young sons, and her adoptive mother..

If Sheila was the shooter, that just left her to deal with Neville Bamber, which was a different proposition, altogether...

She had to set a trap, and wait for Neville not only to return to the farmhouse at around midnight, or later, but she had to make sure that whenever he stumbled upon her handy work, that he could not raise the alarm immediately! In this respect, I believe that Sheila unplugged the bedroom telephone as part of her strategy, so that when Neville discovered the awful truth that he could not raise the alarm from the main bedroom, but that he would need to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to alert, Jeremy and the police...

One thing looks a certainty and that was that in order to discover the awful truth concerning the loss of life in the case of his wife (June) and his two grandchildren (Daniel and Nicholas), Neville had to be upstairs in either bedroom, and that the shooter lay in wait for him at that time, to make his way toward one or the other two phone points in the farmhouse (upstairs office or kitchen). All Sheila had to do was conceal herself behind her own bedroom door, or the latched door at the top of the spiral stair case, and wait for the moment that Neville came back out onto the top landing from the main bedroom!

Of course, timing would have played a vital role in whether or not Neville was able to avoid or escape the interest of the shooter, and based on what is now known it appears that Neville was provisionally successful in making his way all the way down to the kitchen, arguably only being shot once on his way down the main stairs!

Once downstairs in the kitchen, and with Neville alerting Jeremy and the police by 3.26am, it then became an issue of an armed Sheila versus a wounded Neville Bamber - I don't buy into the claim that there was any struggle between Sheila and Neville over the possession of the loaded .22 anshuzt rifle. This is because, any struggle that took place in the kitchen invariably involved a fight over the possession of the 12 bore shotgun, which scratched the kitchen mantelpiece...

Exactly when such a struggle took place, is another issue..

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 06:57:PM
But, that's just it, Sheila didn't shoot herself, she simply shot and killed June Bamber in her bed, who was a sitting duck! Similarly, she disposed of her own two children. Disposing of Neville Bamber was a different kettle of fiish, she had to stalk him, wait for him to realise that the others had been destroyed, then she hunted him down, shot at him, attacked him, then finished him off in the kitchen..

Please don't ignore the available evidence which places Sheila's body (a dead female) elsewhere, other than on the main bedroom floor, recorded in the police files - a female body in the Laundry room sighted through the Laundry room window before the firearms team entered the premises! The dead female found in the kitchen upon entry by the firearm officers, at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, the fact that by 7.45am only two bodies had been found, one dead male, one dead female, the two deaths being referred to back in the  control room as  a murder, and a suicide, and of course, the fact that by 8.10am, only a further three bodies found upstairs, at a time when all five bodies had been confirmed as being dead, two bodies downstairs, three bodies upstairs. Sheila's body upstairs on the far side of the bed (8.44am), Sheila's body laid on top of the bed with a Bible on her chest (9.05am), to her body ending up on the main bedroom floor by 9.30am...

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:04:PM
We can't keep letting Essex police off the hook with the excuse that they made mistake after mistake!!!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:05:PM
We can't keep letting Essex police off the hook with the excuse that they made mistake after mistake!!!

Honest law abiding cops don't make the kind of mistakes Essex police keep claiming that they made!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:06:PM
The keystone cops would have done a much better job than that handled by Essex police!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 07, 2018, 07:12:PM
The keystone cops would have done a much better job than that handled by Essex police!

I have never before been involved in or known about so many exhibits having exhibit references altered from this to that, or the fact that a police investigation had at least two (but possibly several other) crime reference numbers associated with or to it!

But..

This has occurred in the prosecution of Jeremy Bamber as the killer of his family, in particular the murder of his sister!!

Something is very seriously wrong here, and it doesn't stop with Essex police. Since the CPS, the Judiciary, the Home Secretary, and the appellate court are all deeply involved in this deception - none of them are fit for purpose, the lot of them all common low life criminals, in other words a modern day version of the Nazi's...

Awful, despicable mob!!!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 07, 2018, 07:53:PM
Adam, I am as convinced as I can be, that Neville Bamber was not present inside the farmhouse when June and her two grandchildren were shot to bits, and killed...

In this narrative, Sheila would have easily been able to dispatch her two young sons, and her adoptive mother..

If Sheila was the shooter, that just left her to deal with Neville Bamber, which was a different proposition, altogether...

She had to set a trap, and wait for Neville not only to return to the farmhouse at around midnight, or later, but she had to make sure that whenever he stumbled upon her handy work, that he could not raise the alarm immediately! In this respect, I believe that Sheila unplugged the bedroom telephone as part of her strategy, so that when Neville discovered the awful truth that he could not raise the alarm from the main bedroom, but that he would need to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to alert, Jeremy and the police...

One thing looks a certainty and that was that in order to discover the awful truth concerning the loss of life in the case of his wife (June) and his two grandchildren (Daniel and Nicholas), Neville had to be upstairs in either bedroom, and that the shooter lay in wait for him at that time, to make his way toward one or the other two phone points in the farmhouse (upstairs office or kitchen). All Sheila had to do was conceal herself behind her own bedroom door, or the latched door at the top of the spiral stair case, and wait for the moment that Neville came back out onto the top landing from the main bedroom!

Of course, timing would have played a vital role in whether or not Neville was able to avoid or escape the interest of the shooter, and based on what is now known it appears that Neville was provisionally successful in making his way all the way down to the kitchen, arguably only being shot once on his way down the main stairs!

Once downstairs in the kitchen, and with Neville alerting Jeremy and the police by 3.26am, it then became an issue of an armed Sheila versus a wounded Neville Bamber - I don't buy into the claim that there was any struggle between Sheila and Neville over the possession of the loaded .22 anshuzt rifle. This is because, any struggle that took place in the kitchen invariably involved a fight over the possession of the 12 bore shotgun, which scratched the kitchen mantelpiece...

Exactly when such a struggle took place, is another issue..

Thanks Mike.

If Sheila was waiting for Nevill to return, when did Nevill make his phone calls ?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 09:32:AM
Thanks Mike.

If Sheila was waiting for Nevill to return, when did Nevill make his phone calls ?

Between 3.15am (to Jeremy) and 3.30am ( to the police)...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 08, 2018, 01:08:PM
Between 3.15am (to Jeremy) and 3.30am ( to the police)...

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:42:PM
I understand that June and Sheila had been involved in an altercation earlier in the day on the last day they both lived on planet earth, Sheila thumped June and gave her a black eye, and during the incident Sheila fell against a piece of furniture and grazed herself. Jeremy told me about the black eye that his mum had, first noticed by him when he returned to the farmhouse at around supper time. He didn't know how his mum (June) received the black eye, but he told me he believed she got it during a squabble of sorts with Sheila earlier in the day. He didn't know that Sheila had got a graze on her body, or that this was covered by a plaster, until he subsequently received a copy of the pathologists hand written notes..

You only have to take into account what the farm secretary said when she spoke to Neville Bamber at about 9.30pm on that last Tuesday evening, where she says she got the impression because of Neville's abrupt tone of voice, that she had called at a bad time, and that she might have interrupted some sort of an argument amongst the family at that time! Link this to what Pamela Boutflour stated in her witness statement where she tells of her sister June mentioning that Sheila had been behaving oddly, and that June had intended to bring Sheila and the twins round for tea on the following day, so that Pamela could take a close look at Sheila! In addition, not to be overlooked was the fact that Tuesday evening was June Bambers weekly Bible class, which for some reason June gave a miss...

Jeremy had told of a one sided debate between his parents and Sheila concerning Sheila's inability to look after her two children and herself properly, and that there was talk about trying to get Sheila some help involving carers, or foster parents, and talk about sending Sheila to a rest home in the Bournemouth area, etc...

I have looked at what everyone has said and insofar as the farm secretary feeling that Neville Bamber was a bit abrupt when she spoke to him at 9.30pm, that Tuesday evening, I think this could have been because of the problems they (the parents) were having with Sheila, but also because Jeremy left the farmhouse at about the same time, and the fact that Neville had to take the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed..

I sense that Neville might have been annoyed that Jeremy couldn't do that last run!

I have never asked Jeremy, why he told the farm workers in the fields, that Neville Bamber would be along to collect the last trailor load of rape seed!

Then...

There is the fact that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the tractor overnight (the South African) - my query, is if Neville Bamber took the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed, how come Ralph Neville ended up with the said tractor?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:56:PM
I guess, Neville Bamber walked it back to white house farm, and for whatever reason let Ralph Neville take the tractor and trailor to take back to Osea Road Caravan Park, despite the fact that his mobile home (vehicle) was parked up near the barns at whf overnight?

On the following morning, Ralph Neville drove the tractor and trailor up Pages Lane intending to deposit the harvest of rape seed, only to be turned away..

Within the hour, Ralph Neville was the hitchhiker who was thumbing a lift to the nearest port, intending to flee the UK! He left behind his mobile home, parked up at the scene. He told the local resident who gave him a lift from nearby Goldhanger that he had been staying with a farming family who had all been found shot dead...

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 05:58:PM
I guess, Neville Bamber walked it back to white house farm, and for whatever reason let Ralph Neville take the tractor and trailor to take back to Osea Road Caravan Park, despite the fact that his mobile home (vehicle) was parked up near the barns at whf overnight?

On the following morning, Ralph Neville drove the tractor and trailor up Pages Lane intending to deposit the harvest of rape seed, only to be turned away..

Within the hour, Ralph Neville was the hitchhiker who was thumbing a lift to the nearest port, intending to flee the UK! He left behind his mobile home, parked up at the scene. He told the local resident who gave him a lift from nearby Goldhanger that he had been staying with a farming family who had all been found shot dead...
From a personal viewpoint, I think there could be a link between Ralph Neville and the shooting dead of the family, maybe he was Sheila's accomplice?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:00:PM
From a personal viewpoint, I think there could be a link between Ralph Neville and the shooting dead of the family, maybe he was Sheila's accomplice?

Maybe, he was the scruffy looking hunched man, who according to Kim Sengupta ( journalist for Daily Express back in the day) was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after police first arrived there?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 06:02:PM
I understand that June and Sheila had been involved in an altercation earlier in the day on the last day they both lived on planet earth, Sheila thumped June and gave her a black eye, and during the incident Sheila fell against a piece of furniture and grazed herself. Jeremy told me about the black eye that his mum had, first noticed by him when he returned to the farmhouse at around supper time. He didn't know how his mum (June) received the black eye, but he told me he believed she got it during a squabble of sorts with Sheila earlier in the day. He didn't know that Sheila had got a graze on her body, or that this was covered by a plaster, until he subsequently received a copy of the pathologists hand written notes..

You only have to take into account what the farm secretary said when she spoke to Neville Bamber at about 9.30pm on that last Tuesday evening, where she says she got the impression because of Neville's abrupt tone of voice, that she had called at a bad time, and that she might have interrupted some sort of an argument amongst the family at that time! Link this to what Pamela Boutflour stated in her witness statement where she tells of her sister June mentioning that Sheila had been behaving oddly, and that June had intended to bring Sheila and the twins round for tea on the following day, so that Pamela could take a close look at Sheila! In addition, not to be overlooked was the fact that Tuesday evening was June Bambers weekly Bible class, which for some reason June gave a miss...

Jeremy had told of a one sided debate between his parents and Sheila concerning Sheila's inability to look after her two children and herself properly, and that there was talk about trying to get Sheila some help involving carers, or foster parents, and talk about sending Sheila to a rest home in the Bournemouth area, etc...

I have looked at what everyone has said and insofar as the farm secretary feeling that Neville Bamber was a bit abrupt when she spoke to him at 9.30pm, that Tuesday evening, I think this could have been because of the problems they (the parents) were having with Sheila, but also because Jeremy left the farmhouse at about the same time, and the fact that Neville had to take the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed..

I sense that Neville might have been annoyed that Jeremy couldn't do that last run!

I have never asked Jeremy, why he told the farm workers in the fields, that Neville Bamber would be along to collect the last trailor load of rape seed!

Then...

There is the fact that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the tractor overnight (the South African) - my query, is if Neville Bamber took the tractor to the fields to collect the last trailor load of rape seed, how come Ralph Neville ended up with the said tractor?
This is a mixture of fact intertwined with fiction. There's no doubt that Sheila and June had had differences of opinion in the past, but Sheila had rarely if ever raised objections to her mother's face, preferring to parry any attack by confiding in others. A physical assault by either of them would be unprecedented; indeed this had been part of the trouble in the upbringing of both Jeremy and Sheila as they were left to their own devices by parents who never reacted to any bad behaviour on their part.

It's perfectly possible that faced with the reality of day to day living with Sheila her parents realized that looking after herself, let alone two growing boys was too much of a strain on their daughter and Nevill may have been angry that the workload was falling on his wife that week, hence June's suggestion that Sheila stay in a Bournemouth hotel and the ill-feeling in the house that evening. One also recalls Julie's statement that it was Jeremy himself who broached the subject of adoption of the twins in an attempt to sow discord amongst those gathered in the kitchen on the Tuesday evening.

As far as the bible class is concerned Audrey Childs made a witness statement to the fact that June had already told her aunt Connie Lugg that she would not be attending that night.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:03:PM
It is somewhat puzzling that Neville Bamber went to the fields after 9.30pm that Tuesday evening, intent on collecting the last trailor load of rape seed, but that Ralph Neville ended up in control of the same overnight?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:12:PM

As far as the bible class is concerned Audrey Childs made a witness statement to the fact that June had already told her aunt Connie Lugg that she would not be attending that night.

Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 08, 2018, 06:15:PM
Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...

From recollection, Sheila had been insisting the employee should get off her land, get away from her farm, and stop spying on her, etc, etc, etc, she was swearing and cursing...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 06:22:PM
Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...

There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books. As far as the other members of the bible class is concerned maybe they just weren't kept in the loop.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 08, 2018, 08:54:PM
There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books.

Andrew Hunter has.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 09:51:PM
There's no record of this and all the main authors of the case have not included this incident in their books. As far as the other members of the bible class is concerned maybe they just weren't kept in the loop.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 08, 2018, 09:58:PM
Andrew Hunter has.
He jumped on the bandwagon like George Galloway, Eric Allison, Peter Tatchell and others.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 10:19:PM
He jumped on the bandwagon like George Galloway, Eric Allison, Peter Tatchell and others.

It doesn't matter what any of them say, there is no mystery - Bamber himself has stated that June's aunt Connie Lugg told the bible class that June wouldn't be there because Sheila and the twins were visiting. They 'ALL' knew.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 09, 2018, 05:35:AM
A number of police action reports contained in the police file  tell of class members being puzzled by June Bambers absence from Bible class that Tuesday evening!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Jane on November 15, 2018, 11:38:AM
Yes, but there were other members of the Bible class who were puzzled by June's absence from Bible class that evening!

Let us also not overlook the confrontation between Sheila and an employee of the regional electricity board, or an agent of that company who was challenged by Sheila and subjected to a volley of abuse, which only came to a halt after June Bamber intervened, making her apologies, and stating that Sheila had not been taking her medication, etc, etc, etc...

Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the victim, involved in this confrontation, and it becomes clear that Sheila was volatile, abusive and aggressive in nature and attitude...


So? "Other members of the Bible class were puzzled by June's absence" What's the big deal? June, as would I, and many others, no doubt, have told the person they felt it was necessary to inform of her inability to attend, and relied on that person to tell the others, rather than contacting everyone individually. Naturally, as a regular participator, her non attendance would have been questioned. Why would there be anything sinister about her friends wondering about it?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 01:29:PM

So? "Other members of the Bible class were puzzled by June's absence" What's the big deal? June, as would I, and many others, no doubt, have told the person they felt it was necessary to inform of her inability to attend, and relied on that person to tell the others, rather than contacting everyone individually. Naturally, as a regular participator, her non attendance would have been questioned. Why would there be anything sinister about her friends wondering about it?

June didn't go to evening Bible class, because she had been having trouble with Sheila who gave her a black eye - she didn't want to leave Sheila alone in care of her grandchildren whilst she was out at the Bible class, and Neville and Jeremy out of the house busily harvesting crop from their fields...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Jane on November 15, 2018, 03:11:PM
June didn't go to evening Bible class, because she had been having trouble with Sheila who gave her a black eye - she didn't want to leave Sheila alone in care of her grandchildren whilst she was out at the Bible class, and Neville and Jeremy out of the house busily harvesting crop from their fields...


Perhaps you could tell us why you're so confident that what you're  saying -given that it can't be confirmed- is correct............other than the part about Jeremy and his father being busy with the harvest?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 15, 2018, 04:29:PM
Perhaps you could tell us why you're so confident that what you're  saying -given that it can't be confirmed- is correct............other than the part about Jeremy and his father being busy with the harvest?

June did have a swollen eye, albeit there was a suggestion that this could have been caused as a result of being shot between the eyes by a bullet - the pathologist didn't say one way or the other...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Steve_uk on November 17, 2018, 08:41:AM
June didn't go to evening Bible class, because she had been having trouble with Sheila who gave her a black eye - she didn't want to leave Sheila alone in care of her grandchildren whilst she was out at the Bible class, and Neville and Jeremy out of the house busily harvesting crop from their fields...
This has been discussed several times now and your theory can be discounted.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2018, 02:29:PM
This has been discussed several times now and your theory can be discounted.

Jeremy noticed June had a black eye that last evening at the supper table, and she gave an unlikely explanation for its causation - so unfortunately it hasn't been exhaustively investigated..
A great deal of things happenned during that three hour period (8.13am - 11.10am):-

Sheila's body moved from (B) to (C), and then from (C) to (D)...
Period (1) - 3.25am - 3.52am
Period (2) - 3.53am - 4.02am
Period (3) - 4.03am - 4.59am
Period (4) - 5.00am - 6.08am
Period (5) - 6.09am - 6.59am
Period (6) - 7.00am - 7.29am
Period (7) - 7.30am - 7.34am Sheila's body at position (A)
Period (8) - 7.35am - 8.10am  Sheila's body at position (B)
Period (9) - 8.11am - 8.13am
Period (10) - 8.14am - 8.43am
Period (11) - 8.44am - 8.59am Sheila's body at position (C)
Period (12) - 9.00am - 9.12am
Period (13) - 9.13am - 9.29am Sheila's body at position (D)
Period (14) - 9.30am - 11.09am

Period (15) - 11.10am - 1.15pm

Position (A) - relates to Sheila's body in Laundry room
Position (B) - relates to Sheila's body in kitchen
Position (C) - relates to Sheila's body being laid on the bed
Position (D) - relates to Sheila's body being laid on floor

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Jane on November 17, 2018, 05:42:PM
Jeremy noticed June had a black eye that last evening at the supper table, and she gave an unlikely explanation for its causation - so unfortunately it hasn't been exhaustively investigated..
A great deal of things happenned during that three hour period (8.13am - 11.10am):-

Sheila's body moved from (B) to (C), and then from (C) to (D)...
Period (1) - 3.25am - 3.52am
Period (2) - 3.53am - 4.02am
Period (3) - 4.03am - 4.59am
Period (4) - 5.00am - 6.08am
Period (5) - 6.09am - 6.59am
Period (6) - 7.00am - 7.29am
Period (7) - 7.30am - 7.34am Sheila's body at position (A)
Period (8) - 7.35am - 8.10am  Sheila's body at position (B)
Period (9) - 8.11am - 8.13am
Period (10) - 8.14am - 8.43am
Period (11) - 8.44am - 8.59am Sheila's body at position (C)
Period (12) - 9.00am - 9.12am
Period (13) - 9.13am - 9.29am Sheila's body at position (D)
Period (14) - 9.30am - 11.09am

Period (15) - 11.10am - 1.15pm

Position (A) - relates to Sheila's body in Laundry room
Position (B) - relates to Sheila's body in kitchen
Position (C) - relates to Sheila's body being laid on the bed
Position (D) - relates to Sheila's body being laid on floor



Well, we mustn't overlook, must we, the fact that Jeremy was free to tell whatever story he wanted as there was no one left alive to contradict it..
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2018, 06:14:PM

Well, we mustn't overlook, must we, the fact that Jeremy was free to tell whatever story he wanted as there was no one left alive to contradict it..

You should really try to focus on the true facts, rather than try to muddy the waters - since, just for your information, you are overlooking one startling undisputed fact, that puts Jeremy Bamber (despite how you and your lot hate him) in the clear! Guess what, Sheila was not dead on the main bedroom floor when the firearm team entered the kitchen at 7.35am! Yes, they went into the kitchen at that time, and guess how many bodies were present there at that time? Not one body, but two - which part don't you and the other brain dead people understand? Not one body, but a body, and another body, 1 + 1 = 2. Ok know Essex police can't be relied upon the to tell the Forrest time, and it now also appears diobviooys that they can't do simple arithmetic, neither can you and yours, two bodies, not just two bodies, but the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female (for your benefit, the term 'male' is spelt differently to the term 'female', if you don't know the difference between the two, that's not my problem)!

1 + 1 = 2..

It was never a case (like you and others are trying to suggest) of 1 + 1 = 1...

The raid team members all had personal radios, and for your information each of the 6 man raid team had individual calls signs so that when any one of them passed a radio message, a log keeper back at the forward control point, was recording what each member of the raid team said or spoke about!

The contents of this operational log have not yet been disclosed, and the reason for that / this is because by the end of this particular part of the operation (8.13am), there were two bodies downstairs, and only three bodies upstairs ( the Commander during this operation was PS Adams)..

The operational log, contains all the evidence that I am talking about, Essex police are basically fucked, they are in the shit, they have fucked up, good and proper, and they will eventually have to face the music!

Don't try to tell me that I don't know the routines of these task forces, they all keep an operational log, so where are the two operational log contents from the operation at whf where PS Adams was the Commander of the first part, and PI Montgomery was the Commander of the second part?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2018, 06:48:PM
You should really try to focus on the true facts, rather than try to muddy the waters - since, just for your information, you are overlooking one startling undisputed fact, that puts Jeremy Bamber (despite how you and your lot hate him) in the clear! Guess what, Sheila was not dead on the main bedroom floor when the firearm team entered the kitchen at 7.35am! Yes, they went into the kitchen at that time, and guess how many bodies were present there at that time? Not one body, but two - which part don't you and the other brain dead people understand? Not one body, but a body, and another body, 1 + 1 = 2. Ok know Essex police can't be relied upon the to tell the Forrest time, and it now also appears diobviooys that they can't do simple arithmetic, neither can you and yours, two bodies, not just two bodies, but the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female (for your benefit, the term 'male' is spelt differently to the term 'female', if you don't know the difference between the two, that's not my problem)!

1 + 1 = 2..

It was never a case (like you and others are trying to suggest) of 1 + 1 = 1...

The raid team members all had personal radios, and for your information each of the 6 man raid team had individual calls signs so that when any one of them passed a radio message, a log keeper back at the forward control point, was recording what each member of the raid team said or spoke about!

The contents of this operational log have not yet been disclosed, and the reason for that / this is because by the end of this particular part of the operation (8.13am), there were two bodies downstairs, and only three bodies upstairs ( the Commander during this operation was PS Adams)..

The operational log, contains all the evidence that I am talking about, Essex police are basically fucked, they are in the shit, they have fucked up, good and proper, and they will eventually have to face the music!

Don't try to tell me that I don't know the routines of these task forces, they all keep an operational log, so where are the two operational log contents from the operation at whf where PS Adams was the Commander of the first part, and PI Montgomery was the Commander of the second part?

Withheld under pii (no doubt), but there is good news for Jeremy, since he can force Essex police to release these two operational logs (known as the 'COMMAND LOG'), providing that the Information he is seeking would tend to prove his innocence! Well, guess what? Yes, the information contained in these two operational logs will not only tend to prove that Jeremy Bamber had not, and did not shoot dead his sister there on the main bedroom floor, and that he did not stage her death scene as a suicide!

I know that I am right, I don't need any ordinary members of the public trying to tell me about the methods adopted by these task forces, crime squads and firearm units...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2018, 07:27:PM
The messages passed to and fro between the six man raid team and the Commander (PS Adams) during the firearm operation between around 7.39am and 8.13am, would have been recorded in the 'COMMAND LOG' kept at the forward control point, which at the White house farm incident was situated in a nearby outbuilding!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 17, 2018, 07:31:PM
The contents of this 'COMMAND LOG' will almost certainly result in Jeremy Bambers convictions being quashed, and the prosecution of any surviving criminalised firearm officers, on Conspiracy to per ert the course f justice, and potentially be at peril of being arraigned on a murder charge, themselves!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 17, 2018, 11:22:PM

So? "Other members of the Bible class were puzzled by June's absence" What's the big deal? June, as would I, and many others, no doubt, have told the person they felt it was necessary to inform of her inability to attend, and relied on that person to tell the others, rather than contacting everyone individually. Naturally, as a regular participator, her non attendance would have been questioned. Why would there be anything sinister about her friends wondering about it?

They weren't wondering about it(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9753.0;attach=54398)

They ALL knew she wasn't attending and why.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 08:15:AM
They weren't wondering about it(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9753.0;attach=54398)

They ALL knew she wasn't attending and why.

Informed them all afterwards, not beforehand, there is a difference - she told them all afterwards that June had told her that she wouldn't be attending and that was why she hadn't attended on the last occasion...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Jane on November 18, 2018, 09:45:AM
Informed them all afterwards, not beforehand, there is a difference - she told them all afterwards that June had told her that she wouldn't be attending and that wascwhy she hadn't attended on the last occasion...

Unless she was clairvoyant, she could hardly have told them before it happened, could she.? It's unbelievable in the extreme that she'd have omitted to tell the group that the person who ran it wouldn't be attending.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 12:17:PM
Unless she was clairvoyant, she could hardly have told them before it happened, could she.? It's unbelievable in the extreme that she'd have omitted to tell the group that the person who ran it wouldn't be attending.

Others weren't told until after the shooting tragedy, for example, that June hadn't attended because Sheila and the twins had come to stop with them. By the time most of the others found out, June, Sheila and the twins (as well as Neville Bamber were already dead)...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 18, 2018, 12:53:PM
Informed them all afterwards, not beforehand, there is a difference - she told them all afterwards that June had told her that she wouldn't be attending and that was why she hadn't attended on the last occasion...

"Informed then all that she wouldn't be attending" not "informed them all why she hadn't attended". They ALL knew she wasn't coming to the class and they knew why. Bamber himself stated this.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 01:25:PM
"Informed then all that she wouldn't be attending" not "informed them all why she hadn't attended". They ALL knew she wasn't coming to the class and they knew why. Bamber himself stated this.

Jeremy doesn't know everything that happenned, he even says his sister shot and killed herself, which can't possibly be true! Tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to try and find all the police action reports which deal with this matter, where the police were being instructed by a senior officer to go and see this witness, or that witness, to find out what they knew about June Bamber, and whether or not they were surprised or concerned that she hadn't turned up for her usual Tuesday evening Bible class? I have seen several such police action reports which deal with this, and when I next come across them, I will post them up for clarification - I just want to add that I have been looking through the unread files again, and that I have plenty of unseen material which I am expecting to be posting up in the next few days, so everyone should try to stay tuned...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 03:08:PM
Jeremy doesn't know everything that happenned, he even says his sister shot and killed herself, which can't possibly be true! Tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to try and find all the police action reports which deal with this matter, where the police were being instructed by a senior officer to go and see this witness, or that witness, to find out what they knew about June Bamber, and whether or not they were surprised or concerned that she hadn't turned up for her usual Tuesday evening Bible class? I have seen several such police action reports which deal with this, and when I next come across them, I will post them up for clarification - I just want to add that I have been looking through the unread files again, and that I have plenty of unseen material which I am expecting to be posting up in the next few days, so everyone should try to stay tuned...

Sheila’s body was upstairs with two shell casings near her body coroborating the two gunshot wounds and no blood trail of hers showing she walked or moved after being shot the first time.

So.. how did the police manage to inflict two contact wounds to Sheila’s chin with a .22 while she was sitting upwards?

Your theory is up in smoke!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 18, 2018, 03:25:PM
Jeremy doesn't know everything that happenned, he even says his sister shot and killed herself, which can't possibly be true! Tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to try and find all the police action reports which deal with this matter, where the police were being instructed by a senior officer to go and see this witness, or that witness, to find out what they knew about June Bamber, and whether or not they were surprised or concerned that she hadn't turned up for her usual Tuesday evening Bible class? I have seen several such police action reports which deal with this, and when I next come across them, I will post them up for clarification - I just want to add that I have been looking through the unread files again, and that I have plenty of unseen material which I am expecting to be posting up in the next few days, so everyone should try to stay tuned...

It’s his case and he’s quite specific about who told the group June wouldn’t be attending.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 03:35:PM
Sheila’s body was upstairs with two shell casings near her body coroborating the two gunshot wounds and no blood trail of hers showing she walked or moved after being shot the first time.

So.. how did the police manage to inflict two contact wounds to Sheila’s chin with a .22 while she was sitting upwards?

Your theory is up in smoke!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/drj4KPFH32Mw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 03:36:PM
Sheila’s body was upstairs with two shell casings near her body No, she wasn't, bullet cases DRH/1 and DRH/2 were added into DC Hammersley 2nd witness statement at the insistence of PI Miller. Furthermore, Sheila's body was originally downstairs behind the Laundry room door at about 7.30am, and then still downstairs in the kitchen in accordance with, and by reference to the individually timed police radio message log contents, 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 7.45am, then her body was upstairs, ' on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am, or as the case may be, Sheila's body was resting on top of the bed after 9.05am, prior to Sheila's body ending up on the main bedroom floor - so what good was it that two dodgy bullet cases ended up on the main bedroom floor next to where Sheila's body eventually ended up, if her body had been confirmed by various police sources and references, elsewhere? coroborating the two gunshot wounds wrong, the two dodgy bullet cases, DRH/1 and DRH/2, were added to the main bedroom scene at the insistence of PI Miller...and no blood trail of hers showing she walked or moved after being shot the first time. Sorry, but you are wrong again, there is a very feint vertical blood flow beneath the lower bullet entry wound on Sheila's neck which you can choose to try and ignore as much as you like, but the fact of the matter is that at the time the first shot was fired across Sheila's neck, blood ran vertically down her neck...

So.. how did the police manage to inflict two contact wounds to Sheila’s chin with a .22 while she was sitting upwards? Sheila wasn't shot twice whilst she was standing upright, only once!

The second fatal shot was inflicted after police moved her body from the bed, onto the bedroom floor, at a time when Sheila was barely still alive but unconscious! The reason the flow of blood is diagonal across her face and neck is because after police shot her they rolled her body into the recovery position upon the right side of her body, and subsequently back into the suppine position! Sheila didn't shoot herself and roll herself into the recovery position and then role back into the suppine position still clutching the rifle!


Your theory is up in smoke! I am afraid not, you, Jeremy and his current team haven't got a cat in hells chance of ever being able to convince anyone that Sheila shot and killed herself! If anybodies stance is up in smoke as you suggest, you need look no further at the pathetic approach that you, Jeremy and his current team are trying to pursue - good luck with that impossible task!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 03:38:PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/drj4KPFH32Mw/giphy.gif)

Your scenario, and Jeremy's, and his team is nothing but bullshit, because you are trying to argue something which was impossible to have occurred - your own gif adequately expresses your own position...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 04:19:PM
Your scenario, and Jeremy's, and his team is nothing but bullshit, because you are trying to argue something which was impossible to have occurred - your own gif adequately expresses your own position...

How did the police inflict two contact wounds under Sheila’s chin with a .22?

Why is there no blood trail of Sheila’s blood?

Why is there no blood running down her legs?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 18, 2018, 04:54:PM
How did the police inflict two contact wounds under Sheila’s chin with a .22? there was another rifle captured in a crime scene photograph taken downstairs in the kitchen, to which mention was made against which senior officers told junior officers not to make any mention of in the reports, pocketbook entries, or witness statements, so you can make of this anything you want only ignore it's presence there at your peril. The second shot which killed Sheila after her body was moved from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor sge was shot by a bullet inflicted by use of the anshuzt rifle which police had brought into the main bedroom from the next door box room window! There's nothing for me to add, I didn't invent the fact that Sheila's body was downstairs in the laundry, or downstairs in the kitchen, I didn't make anything up about Sheila's body being on the far side of the bed at 8.44am, of that her body was laid on top of the bed side by side the body of June Bamber, I didn't move Sheila's body from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor, so if Shela shot and killed herself like you, Jeremy and his team keepsaying how are you all intending to explain away all these contradictions?

Why is there no blood trail of Sheila’s blood? There is a vertical blood trail on her neck which runs vertically away from the lower bullet entry wound, a blood flow pattern that is not replicated by the flow of blood from the upper wound on her neck..

Why is there no blood running down her legs? there wouldn't be if she fell immediately to the kitchen floor and Anderson up face down on the kitchen floor!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 06:36:PM
there was another rifle captured in a crime scene photograph taken downstairs in the kitchen, to which mention was made against which senior officers told junior officers not to make any mention of in the reports, pocketbook entries, or witness statements, so you can make of this anything you want only ignore it's presence there at your peril. The second shot which killed Sheila after her body was moved from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor sge was shot by a bullet inflicted by use of the anshuzt rifle which police had brought into the main bedroom from the next door box room window! There's nothing for me to add, I didn't invent the fact that Sheila's body was downstairs in the laundry, or downstairs in the kitchen, I didn't make anything up about Sheila's body being on the far side of the bed at 8.44am, of that her body was laid on top of the bed side by side the body of June Bamber, I didn't move Sheila's body from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor, so if Shela shot and killed herself like you, Jeremy and his team keepsaying how are you all intending to explain away all these contradictions?

You are not inventing anything I know. What you are doing is taking police mistakes as genuine observations when they are in fact mistakes.

Someone mistook Nevill for a female

Some officer errornously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed.

There is a vertical blood trail on her neck which runs vertically away from the lower bullet entry wound, a blood flow pattern that is not replicated by the flow of blood from the upper wound on her neck..

The pathologist stated the bloodstains show she was siting up when both shots were fired.

there wouldn't be if she fell immediately to the kitchen floor and Anderson up face down on the kitchen floor!

There would be if she shot herself in the kitchen and then made her way upstairs.


Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Harry on November 19, 2018, 04:35:AM
You are not inventing anything I know. What you are doing is taking police mistakes as genuine observations when they are in fact mistakes.

Someone mistook Nevill for a female

Some officer erroneously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed.

The pathologist stated the bloodstains show she was siting up when both shots were fired.

There would be if she shot herself in the kitchen and then made her way upstairs.

"Some officer erroneously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed."

It's hard to make sense of that. Stan Jones saw Sheila's body before he left the scene of the crime. If he saw her on the floor why would he think she was on the bed?

Similarly, one might ask why would Robert Boutflour say there was fingerprint dust all around the farmhouse when the silencer was found and that Basil Cock was complaining about it, if there wasn't really any fingerprint dust there at all?

It not good enough to dismiss evidence as "mistakes" when it contradicts the position you support for whatever reasons you have.

Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 19, 2018, 09:30:AM
Jeremy must be wishing he hadn't gone out to shoot rabbits.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 19, 2018, 10:59:AM
You are not inventing anything I know. What you are doing is taking police mistakes as genuine observations when they are in fact mistakes. when are people like you going to realise that police don't make those kind of humongous mistakes or errors? I accept that they are only human, but, hey they took examinations and passed basic intelligence tests, that set these people above the rest of us! They were supposed to be able to tell the time of day or night, and be truthful in everything they reportedly saw, heard, or was told about! The way your going on, every copper involved in this investigation was basically a retard, not capable of understanding what the truth is, or was - stop making up excuse after excuse for these corrupt officials! I wished cops like these had stitched you up for something you hadn't done, and if they haven't already, I hope they stictch you up soon, since only then will a brain dead member of the public begin to realise just how easy it is to get the wrong person, for a variety of different reasons! Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself dead with the anshuzt rifle or any other rifle, she simply couldn't have! Herbert Leon MacDonnell got it spot on in one of the first reports that he made concerning how Sheila's body had ended up on the main bedroom floor with two bullet entry wounds to her neck, and she appearing to be clutching the rifle on top of her body, with the muzzle of the guns barrel in close proximity to both bullet entry wounds - he said that prior to her body ending up in the photographed position, that after receiving the second fatal shot which had killed her instantaneously, that Sheila's body had been 'rolled onto its right hand side' and her folded right arm with her fingers up in the region of her neck wounds, became trapped underneath her body and that blood from the bullet wounds had pooled in the aforementioned fold of her right arm, which was the source of the heavily triangular bloodstain which formed there on her nightdress, in the region of her right shoulder / armpit, and that after a short delay of her body being in that position, Sheila's body was rolled back onto her back in the supine position, and that somebody must have been responsible for rolling her body into the recovery position, as stated, and somebody (not Sheila herself) must have rolled her body onto her back afterwards, and more importantly, placed the anshuzt rifle in Sheila's possession, for the purpose of trying to suggest that she had taken her own life, when of course, she hadn't and didn't. Sheila didn't shoot herself and do all or any of these things, because she was dead and the only people who could have done, and did these things with her body and the rifle and the Bible, was the police themselves, nobody else could have mucked about with her body, or the gun, or the Bible, it had to be the police! Surely, no-one is going to try and suggest that Jeremy shot his sister, and that he then rolled her body into the recovery position, which would have caused the rifle to fall off her body or at least be underneath her body, and then rolled her body back into the supine position, and that he then positioned the rifle in her possession to fool police into thinking she had committed suicide? Oh, and I suppose it was Jeremy who fooled police into thinking that Sheila's body was in the laundry room just before the raid team entered the farmhouse, and it was Jeremy who tricked police into stating that Sheila's body was dead downstairs in the kitchen, Jeremy made the police make a catelog of mistakes involving what police saw in the kitchen and what they reported they could see, and had seen? I supposed Jeremy even tricked Dr Craig into believing that Sheila's body was ' on the far side of the bed' when he pronounced her as being dead, and then as if Jeremy hadn't tricked everybody enough already, he even caused DS Jones and DC Clark to hallucinate when they visited the main bedroom crime scene, and saw the bodies of June and Sheila resting on the bed, side by side, with the anshuzt rifle resting on the bed in-between their bodies! Oh, and let's not forget  how Jeremy somehow caused Jones and Clark to see a Bible on Sheila's chest when her body was laid on top of the bed - yeah, let everyone act daft and blame poor Jeremy for all these inconsistencies and contradictions, rather than face facts and come to the realisation that cops did it all, they did it, they saw it, and these were not errors or mistakes, you can't describe these sorts of things as a mistake, or an error, we are talking about the bodies of victims, in different positions in different parts of the farmhouse, not somebody getting the time wrong by a minute or so because they didn't read the clock right!

Someone mistook Nevill for a female No, no, no, nobody mistook Neville Bambers body for the body of Sheila Caffell - get your facts right, get your bearings right regarding the start position of PC Collins and PC Delgado who were originally positioned at the corner of RED / WHITE before they became members of the six man raid team! They approached the door that was going to be smashed open and went beyond that door. This would have taken them to the laundry window, inside which it has a kitchen sink and worktops and cupboards, and as it turns out the body of a female behind the door! The sighting of this female wasn't even made in the same room where Neville Bambers body was, hey there was a door to the right of that window, and the window beyond that door from the vantage point of Collins / Delgado being at the laundry room window, was the kitchen window (the room where Neville's body was confined)! Worse still, once cops entered the kitchen they reported two bodies, the body of one dead male ( Neville Bamber) and the body of one dead male (Sheila Caffell), these details were repeated several times, so there is no evidence that cops mistook Neville's body for the body of a dead female, since there would have only been mention of one body in the kitchen, and on several occasions two bodies are mentioned! As if to confirm this as being true, only a further three bodies were found upstairs by 8.10am - next there will be people like you saying that the reason there were only three bodies found upstairs was because police counted June and Sheila's bodies as a single body...

Some officer errornously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed. No, no, n, Sheila's body has been photographed laid on top of the bed, ACC Simpson confiscated three negative strips containing some 30 crime scene photographs, of which three such photographs clearly puts Sheika:'s body on top of that bed, before the 2nd fatal shot that killed her on the bedroom floor finished her off..

The pathologist stated the bloodstains show she was siting up when both shots were fired. He based this opinion on seeing the body physically at the mortuary, after blood had spread all over her face and nightdress due to her body being put into a body bag and brought to Chelmsford hospital mortuary by the undertakers - he didn't see crime scene photographs until much later..

There would be if she shot herself in the kitchen and then made her way upstairs. there was a vertical bloodstain visible beneath the lower neck bullet wound which is not replicated underneath the top bullet entry wound - she received this wound whilst standing upright downstairs in the kitchen and fell to the kitchen floor! At the time of the second shot, police had lifted her body off the bed and placed it on the bedroom floor, that was where she was shot a second time during a training exercise which went horribly wrong!

The contents of the timed police radio message log concerning the location and position of the bodies of the five victims is accurate at the specified times mentioned in those logs, the location and position of the bodies of the five victims as mentioned by police in their witness statements is true, but only represent the locations and the positions inwhich the bodies ended up in, after the bodies of the three adult victims were staged by the police! Photographic evidence supports this true explanation, and so does the contents of the firearm 'COMMAND LOG'...
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 19, 2018, 12:29:PM
Jeremy must be wishing he hadn't gone out to shoot rabbits.

The gun cupboard was found open. With bullets on the floor and the shotgun out. Sheila's opportunity to carry out the aultristic filicide does not depend on Jeremy shooting rabbits.

It would have happened regardless.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 19, 2018, 12:53:PM
"Some officer erroneously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed."

It's hard to make sense of that. Stan Jones saw Sheila's body before he left the scene of the crime. If he saw her on the floor why would he think she was on the bed?


The crime scene photos show Sheila on the floor. The crime scene photos show the bed only contains blood stains from the other end from when June was shot there. Had Sheila been found on the bed with her blood still uncoagulated, its impossible for there not to be a corresponding blood pattern on the bed showing Sheila was indeed there.


What ever Stan Jones says is just plain wrong. Just like Jeremy's huge "fry up" that morning. Never happened.


Similarly, one might ask why would Robert Boutflour say there was fingerprint dust all around the farmhouse when the silencer was found and that Basil Cock was complaining about it, if there wasn't really any fingerprint dust there at all?


This comes from a collection of documents you alleged to be bogus and backdated forgeries. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.


PS: Either old man Boutflour was wrong in his recollection six years after the event or you are misunderstanding what the documents actually says.

It not good enough to dismiss evidence as "mistakes" when it contradicts the position you support for whatever reasons you have.

Its not me that has any contradictions to worry about. Its you  :-\
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 19, 2018, 01:05:PM
The gun cupboard was found open. With bullets on the floor and the shotgun out. Sheila's opportunity to carry out the aultristic filicide does not depend on Jeremy shooting rabbits.

It would have happened regardless.

Sheila picked up the fully loaded low powered rifle. Which was outside of the gun cupboard.

The low powered rifle was fully loaded by Jeremy prior to him going out to kill rabbits.

The rabbits had already disappeared when Jeremy went out to kill them. Meaning the low powered rifle was fully loaded.

Jeremy said he was being 'laxidasical' by not putting away the low powered rifle.

Nevill or June also did not put the low powered rifle away.

Sheila picked up the low powered rifle & shot everyone & herself. Using 26 bullets. 

The low powered rifle did not have the moderator attached. Meaning Jeremy would only be able to fire one shot before the rabbits scattered.

After Sheila picked up the low powered rifle, Nevill realised he needed Jeremy to resolve everything.  June & the twins stayed sleeping in bed.

----------

There is no possibility Sheila would have opened the gun cupboard and loaded a gun prior to killing everyone.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 19, 2018, 01:09:PM
The gun cupboard was found open. With bullets on the floor and the shotgun out. Sheila's opportunity to carry out the aultristic filicide does not depend on Jeremy shooting rabbits.

It would have happened regardless.

Where does it state this?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 19, 2018, 04:19:PM
"Some officer erroneously thought Sheila was on the bed when actually she was by the bed." Sheila placed the anshuzt rifle resting against the first floor box room window. Sheila was in the Laundry room, before she was in the kitchen, and she was in the kitchen before she was upstairs 'on the far side of the bed' and she was 'on the far side of the bed' before her body was resting on top of the bed, and her body was resting on top of the bed, before cops lifted her body onto the bedroom floor, where her body was staged as a suicide by the police!

It's hard to make sense of that. Stan Jones saw Sheila's body before he left the scene of the crime. on top of the bed, shot once, with a Bible resting on her chest - he recited what he had seen with his own two eyes to Ann Eaton and the other relatives who had all gathered at Jeremy's cottage within an hour or so of Jones seeing Sheila's body laid on top of the bed. I doubt very much that anybody could reasonably put what Jones had seen and told Ann Eaton about as a mistake, or an error!If he saw her on the floor why would he think she was on the bed? Jones attended the scene twice that morning, once when he saw Sheila's body laid on top of the bed, which he told Ann Eaton about, and on a second occasion after 11.15am when he returned to the farmhouse and seized the silencer (SBJ/1) - on this second occasion Sheila's body had already been transferred from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor! Although, Jones does not say that he physically saw Sheila's body there on the bedroom floor during his second visit to the farmhouse that particular morning, he almost certainly did revisit the main bedroom and realised that something extraordinary must have taken place after he had left the scene, because no longer did Sheila look like she had been sleeping, she now had an additional bullet wound to her neck, and there were diagonally inclined flows of blood on her face and her neck. Some blood had run out of one of her nostrils and pooled in her left eye socket! Worse still, Sheila had the rifle on top of her body, where Jones had previously seen a Bible resting there - Cook gave him the silencer to take away for the attention of DCI Jones because with 'it' attached onto the end of the rifles barrel the cops wouldn't have been able to stage her death scene there on the bedroom floor as a suicide, because the overall length of the gun with the silencer attached would have been, was too long!

Similarly, one might ask why would Robert Boutflour say there was fingerprint dust all around the farmhouse when the silencer was found and that Basil Cock was complaining about it, if there wasn't really any fingerprint dust there at all? there was no fingerprint examination during the first period that Essex police had control of the farmhouse (7th - 9th August 1985), the fingerprint examination only took place after Jeremy's first arrest on 8th September 1985. Which gives us all an insight into when the recovery of any silencer by any relative had taken place! The following information might be helpful to know about, since on the afternoon of 12th August 1985, Jeremy had confronted the relatives about them removing items including firearms, accessories, and ammunitions from Whf, and he told them to give everything back or to put everything back which did not belong to them! I think the relatives handed him back a .22 air rifle, and a 12 bore shotgun on that occasion, which concerned Jeremy because he didn't possess a shotgun license, so I believe he gave instructions for Peter Eaton (gun dealer) to take all the licensed firearms and everything back at the farmhouse where it was registered to be kept and used! In any event, by the time of Jeremy's arrest at the beginning of September 1985, Peter Eaton had already been given the working control of whf and it's business, and as such all the firearms, accessories and Ammunitions which had been present at the scene at the time of the shootings, (with the exception of Pargeters weapons, accessories and ammunitions) were back where they belonged, hence why ( I think)David Boutflour took possession of the silencer out of the gun cupboard during the period when Jeremy was originally in custody. This must be true, because the fingerprinting of whf took place and coincided with Jeremy's arrest and detention. It was at this time that there would have been fingerprint dust all very the place, on anything and everything. Looks an odds on certainty that the silencer which Ann Eaton handed over to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985 is the true date when the relatives handed over the silencer (AE/1, CAE/1, DRB/1) - all the earlier stuff has been falsified, unless of course they did hand over two different silencers about a month a part. But if they did, the only two silencers kept at whf were the Pargeter one, and the Bamber one..

It not good enough to dismiss evidence as "mistakes" when it contradicts the position you support for whatever reasons you have. that's right, so stop saying cops made a mistake, or it was an error, try fathoming out the truth, and try explaining it, but stop saying it's a mistake or an error, how many mistakes and errors do these cops have to have made before the general public wakes up to what took place here?
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 19, 2018, 05:26:PM
The crime scene photos show Sheila on the floor. Yes, all the crime scene photographs which were taken by PC Bird (2nd SOCO team) were taken after 11.00am, by which stage, Sheila's body was already on the main bedroom floor, PC Bird wasn't present inside the farmhouse taking photographs at the height of the training exercise ('informatives') when per chance Sheila Caffell's body was resting on top of the bed, so he couldn't hope to have taken such a photograph, I agree, that he didn't because he arrived far to late in that particular crime scene inside the farmhouse (after 11.00am). From that point onwards, PC Bird was always going to be maintaining that nobody had disturbed Sheila's body, or the rifle, or the Bible, until he had finished taking all his necessary photographs of a particular subject. Basically put, all that PC Bird (2nd SOCO team) did was to make a photographic record of the staged death scenes of the three adult bodies, where they ended up once senior officers had decided how each of the victims had met their sorrowful end! So, I already know what the purpose of PC Birds duties were! But, prior to him taking up these duties, another pair of SOCO (DC Oakey, and DC Henderson), had been taking photographs and a crime scene video of their own! And, the position of the three adult victims bodies were in a different position and location than those recorded by PC Bird! What we now know, is that during an hour long session between just after 9.00am and 10.00am, Oakey and Henderson were tasked with recording the positions of the bodies of victims in positions they were in by around 9.00am, which coincidentally were at odds with the positions and location of the same bodies by the time PC Bird came along! Now, let's take the position of Sheila Caffell's body, which at around 9.00am was laid resting on top of the bed, she had a Bible on her chest, the gun was resting on the bed at some point, and she had only been shot once in the neck by that time! Oakey and Henderson captured the scene as described in a series of crime scene photographs, including the actual transfer of Sheila's body from on top of the bed in the main bedroom, onto the bedroom floor! Once Sheila's body had been lowered onto the bedroom floor, the rifle was brought to her body and placed upon her chest with her hands placed about the gun! Then, something went horribly wrong! Since, with the muzzle of the gun close to the solitary bullet entry wound on her neck, and with the fingers of her right hand being manipulated upon the trigger mechanism, the rifle discharged a shot which effectively ended Sheila's life! She was not physically dead at the time she received the first shot, although unconscious! Nevertheless, cops reacted quickly, once they recovered from the shock of the rifle they had been using still been loaded with a live round in its breech, they took the rifle away, and rolled Sheila's body into the recovery position on her right hand side. In fairness to the cops they did try to keep her alive, but after some 10 to 15 minutes, they gave up the ghost of trying to ressusitate her, and subsequently, her body was rolled onto her back, and the rifle which they had shot her with was placed on top of her body... The crime scene photos show the bed only contains blood stains from the other end from when June was shot there. Yes, but only June had been shot whilst she was in that bed, Sheila wasn't shot in the bed, she was resting on top of the bed sporting a bullet entry wound situated on the upper most part of her neck, a shot which had been inflicted some 30 minutes or so prior to her arriving upstairs and collapsing (again) on top of the bed (on the left hand side)! You can even see the impression where her head was resting on the left hand pillow until cops moved her body! There was no reason for Sheila to bleed out any blood on the bed, the initial bullet entry wound had already had ample time to clot and seal - any additional blood that came from the second wound which cops inflicted would have been dispersed on her nightdress, and the bedroom carpet where her head and neck had been resting once she had been placed in the recovery position by the cops! You can even see why the cops placed the Bible in the position against her upper right arm, it was placed there to try and hide all the blood loss which was not already taken up by the soaking if the nightdress!Had Sheila been found on the bed with her blood still uncoagulated Sheila wasn't found on the bed with any uncoagukated blood streaming from the initial wound inflicted downstairs, within 15 minutes of receiving that first shot downstairs the blood would have stopped leaking, dependant upon how she fell to the kitchen floor, and the bullet entry hole would have sealed itself with a corresponding clot of blood! its impossible for there not to be a corresponding blood pattern on the bed showing Sheila was indeed there. No, it's not, the blood flow had almost certainly stopped by the time Sheila regained consciousness downstairs in the kitchen - we know for example, that the first timed entry of there being a dead male, and a dead female in the kitchen is timed at 7.35am, and we know that by 8.10am that Sheila wasn't upstairs by that time! So, we have a 35 minute period of inactivity involving the movement or displacement of Sheila's body from its original position downstairs, to the main bedroom upstairs! This is the kind of 30 minute period that the defence pathologist spoke about - he stated on o.ath that he would have expected someone with the sort of injury that Sheila had insofar as the first shot was concerned (non fatal shot) to have been able to move about for uo to half an hour or so, after that initial shot had been inflicted! Well, I think what he was trying to say, was that he believed that Sheila could have been continually able to move around continuously for half an hour or so before the damage caused by the injury took her down! But, Sheila wasn't moving around continually after she received the first shot, she was laid out on the kitchen floor unconscious for a good 35 minutes, and upon regaining consciousness she made her way upstairs to the main bedroom and collapsed there on top of the bed, on her back..


What ever Stan Jones says is just plain wrong. Why would Stan Jones make up something like that, but get the position of Neville Bamber, and the two child victims spit on? Get a grip if your thoughts man!Just like Jeremy's huge "fry up" that morning. But, Jeremy did have a bacon sandwich and whatever that morning when he got back to his cottageNever happened. it did...

This comes from a collection of documents you alleged to be bogus they are bogus, because the witness statements which say the firearm officers originally found Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor in possession of the rifle, already shot twice, don't correspond with the other police version of the events contained in timed police radio messages, evidence which the jury never got to see, because Essex Police kept the truth from everybody that needed to know!and backdated forgeries. if you are referring here to the dated entries inside DS Jones notebook, then all I can say and hope for is that one day you will get stitched up by a reliance upon this kind of false evidence!Talk about putting the cart before the horse. yes, that's what Essex police did, they staged Sheila's death scene as a suicide on the main bedroom floor after they shot and killed her. It wasn't a mistake, or an error, that they deliberately staged her death as a suicide, it was a deliberate act of corruption and dishonesty


PS: Either old man Boutflour was wrong in his recollection six years after the event or you are misunderstanding what the documents actually says. So, now your implying that I am making mistakes, and errors, ha, ha, ha, listen I don't make the sort of mistakes these bent coppers have made, I suppose, you yourself aren't making a mistake or an error here, maybe you should enroll on a course courtesy of Essex police and the CPS..

Its not me that has any contradictions to worry about. Its you  :-\ I don't have nothing to worry about sonny, I'll leave all the worrying to the bent cops and relatives who Framed Jeremy Bamber, and to yourself

You wouldn't know the truth, if it hit you bang in the face!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 19, 2018, 06:48:PM
You wouldn't know the truth, if it hit you bang in the face!

Bird took pictures before 11am
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: David1819 on November 19, 2018, 07:37:PM
Where does it state this?


I have read this somewhere. I shall look for it.

PS:They could have been shotgun ammo.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 19, 2018, 07:45:PM

I have read this somewhere. I shall look for it.

PS:They could have been shotgun ammo.

Yes, but I haven't heard that before.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Adam on November 19, 2018, 08:03:PM
It's a pity Jeremy didn't empty the low powered rifle on killing the rabbits he saw. The rifle would then have been empty.

That is what Jeremy said the rifle was used for, killing vermin. Rabbits obviously being classed as such.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 19, 2018, 11:43:PM
Bird took pictures before 11am

Not of Sheila, because PS Woodcock did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body until 11.10am that morning! Oh, hang on a moment, when Cook testified during the trial he said that he had removed the rifle from Sheila's body, and that he had placed the rifle at the main bedroom window! Ah, but in his COLP witness statement, yet another version of the truth emerges, it appears that Cook invited PI Montgomery into the main bedroom crime scene, and he got Montgomery to remove the rifle and to make it safe!!!

So, seems like every tom, dick, and Harry was taking it in turns removing the rifle from Sheila's body - no doubt the brain dead members of the public will simply put this down to an error, or a mistake. So with three different persons all claiming they were the one who removed the gun from Sheila's body, it stands to reason that there must have been at least two occasions sandwiched in-between  the three removals of the gun, where a copper must have replaced the same gun back on Sheila's body!

Bingo - cops staged Sheila Caffell's death scene as a suicide, just like I've been saying all along!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Caroline on November 20, 2018, 10:59:AM
Not of Sheila, because PS Woodcock did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body until 11.10am that morning! Oh, hang on a moment, when Cook testified during the trial he said that he had removed the rifle from Sheila's body, and that he had placed the rifle at the main bedroom window! Ah, but in his COLP witness statement, yet another version of the truth emerges, it appears that Cook invited PI Montgomery into the main bedroom crime scene, and he got Montgomery to remove the rifle and to make it safe!!!

So, seems like every tom, dick, and Harry was taking it in turns removing the rifle from Sheila's body - no doubt the brain dead members of the public will simply put this down to an error, or a mistake. So with three different persons all claiming they were the one who removed the gun from Sheila's body, it stands to reason that there must have been at least two occasions sandwiched in-between  the three removals of the gun, where a copper must have replaced the same gun back on Sheila's body!

Bingo - cops staged Sheila Caffell's death scene as a suicide, just like I've been saying all along!

Pictures were taken of the crime scene and Sheila prior to having the rifle removed. Bird himself states he started before 11am - I think he should know.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 20, 2018, 01:10:PM
Pictures were taken of the crime scene and Sheila prior to having the rifle removed. Bird himself states he started before 11am - I think he should know.

It depends which version of his evidence, or the evidence you choose to rely upon. According to the time on a clock on one of the bedside cabinets which shows Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor, the time reads after 11.10am. Moreover, it's a strong possibility that some of the crime scene photographs he relied upon whilst testifying during the trial, were not in fact photographs taken by himself! Read his court transcript and you will see that one of the photographs he sought to rely upon whilst testifying, showed the barrel of the anshuzt rifle resting against the left hand side of Sheila's neck, but PC Bird pointed out that that particular photograph had been taken by DC Oakey!
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Harry on November 21, 2018, 09:37:AM
Quote from: Harry on November 19, 2018, 04:35:AM
Quote
    Similarly, one might ask why would Robert Boutflour say there was fingerprint dust all around the farmhouse when the silencer was found and that Basil Cock was complaining about it, if there wasn't really any fingerprint dust there at all?

This comes from a collection of documents you alleged to be bogus and backdated forgeries. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

So you are saying that if a witness is alleged to have given false testimony, the gaffe in a statement which proves it is false can't be used as an argument, because it is contained in the same statement and is therefore also unreliable along with the rest.

Or, should we try to distinguish between your serious posts and those others, produced in haste, where you don't really think about what you are saying.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Harry on November 21, 2018, 09:47:AM
So you are saying that if a witness is alleged to have given false testimony, the gaffe in a statement which proves it is false can't be used as an argument, because it is contained in the same statement and is therefore also unreliable along with the rest.

I base my opinion on the evidence as opposed to always claiming that any evidence which contradicts the position I support is mistaken.

People can forget things, but when that happens they don't normally invent unusual facts out of nothing like imagining there was a real giant panda at last years Christmas party, when there wasn't one.

On this basis we can dismiss the suggestion by an appeal court judge that Alan Dovey was mistaken in thinking there was a policemen present in his office when he interviewed Julie Mugford and Susan Battersby. On the other hand he might well have forgotten what the girls were wearing, unless it was something unusual.

If Stan Jones had seen Sheila's body on the floor before he left, why on earth would he want to tell Ann Eaton that he had seen Sheila on the bed, next to June and with a bible on her chest? Cops don't just make up things like that. Jones was telling Ann Eaton what he had just seen himself. At that stage, there was no reason for him to lie.

The fact that that Ann Eaton pretented to forget who told her about the bible on Sheila's chest should arouse suspicion. She said "I think it was Mick Clark" in her statements. In Court she said "I think it was Julie Mugford".

When Ann Eaton was asked who called the police to tell them about the alleged finding of the silence on August 10th, she said that she couldn't remember, but said "It was probably me." A person wouldn't be likely to forget calling the police about what she thought was important evidence. The truth is no such call occurred. David Boutflour reported finding a silencer on September 11th.

(Doc P31) Telephone Message Log 38, 11th September 1985 reads:
‘David Boutflour has found a silencer with blood on it’


(https://i0.wp.com/scenephotographs.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/boutflour-silencer.jpg?ssl=1&w=450)

Robert Boutflour wouldn't be likely to imagine fingerprint dust was around Whitehouse farm and to hear Basil complaining about it, if such an unusual occurrence hadn't really taken place. Whitehouse farm was not fingerprinted until later than September 6th. So this alleged finding of the silencer, a bag of .22 ammunition and other items could not have taken place on August 10th.

It's possibly a good idea to focus on the bag of .22 ammunition to expose the deception, because of the suggestion by some people that David Boutflour found a silencer on two occasions, both on August 10th and on September 11th.

Well, is anybody claiming that he found the same bag of .22 ammunition twice? Robert Boutflour mentions the bag and describes it in detail in the same COLP statement of 1991, where he mentions the fingerprint dust.

Ann Eaton also mentions the bag of .22 ammunition and mentions Basil Cock being present in her statement of September 12th 1985. She does not mention the fingerprint dust, but it should seem obvious that she and her father are talking about the same day, a day which could not have been August 10th, because the house had not been fingerprinted then.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: Jane on November 21, 2018, 10:39:AM

.................People can forget things, but when that happens they don't normally invent unusual facts out of nothing like imagining there was a real giant panda at last years Christmas party, when there wasn't one.

The fact that that Ann Eaton pretented to forget who told her about the bible on Sheila's chest should arouse suspicion. She said "I think it was Mick Clark" in her statements. In Court she said "I think it was Julie Mugford".

When Ann Eaton was asked who called the police to tell them about the alleged finding of the silence on August 10th, she said that she couldn't remember, but said "It was probably me." A person wouldn't be likely to forget calling the police about what she thought was important evidence. The truth is no such call occurred. David Boutflour reported finding a silencer on September 11th........................



I don't see this as Ann pretending to forget anything. It indicates no more than her way of speaking. As for "It was probably me"? It suggests that there may have been an unresolved dispute between her and David as to who made the call in the first place.
Title: Re: Recent Injury to Sheila's abdomen, had a plaster covering it during tragedy!
Post by: mike tesko on November 21, 2018, 09:18:PM
Quote from: Harry on November 19, 2018, 04:35:AM
So you are saying that if a witness is alleged to have given false testimony, the gaffe in a statement which proves it is false can't be used as an argument, because it is contained in the same statement and is therefore also unreliable along with the rest. sorry to intervene - but at the commencement of a witness statement it states the following, or something similar - ' I make this statement  consisting of (X) pages, to the best if my knowledge and belief and I know that if I have stated anything in it which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true, that I shall be liable to prosecution', etc, etc, etc...

Or, should we try to distinguish between your serious posts and those others, produced in haste, where you don't really think about what you are saying. Sometimes, it may be best not to think about something's too soon, or ever at all, there is no right way, or wrong way to proceed with such matters...