Jeremy Bamber Forum

OTHER HIGH PROFILE CASES => Other high profile cases => Topic started by: Caroline on October 19, 2018, 10:23:PM

Title: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 19, 2018, 10:23:PM
Just started watching this - just making a thread for comments.

If Avery is innocent, then Bobby Dassey is surely involved?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 20, 2018, 11:59:AM
Just started watching this - just making a thread for comments.

If Avery is innocent, then Bobby Dassey is surely involved?

There is a lot of evidence against Avery that the show does not mention. For example

1. Avery kept requesting from Auto Trader specifically that they send Teresa Halbach down to take photos of cars.  Halbach once describes Avery meeting her almost naked (wearing just a towel)

2. Teresa only had two weeks left at this job. She was leaving because she didnt like it. Probably due the point I raised above.

3. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He desribes using some BDSM type restraints while he and avery raped her. Avery actually owned what Dassey desribed.

4. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He mentions he helped Avery clean up the floor of the crime scene with bleach. The jeans that Brendan Dassey admits wearing on the night in question were covered in bleach stains!

5. The bullet recovered from Averys garage that had the victims DNA on it. Was fired from Averys gun that he kept above his bed.

6. Steven Avery's blood was found INSIDE the victims car near the ignition. Avery had a cut finger on the day in question.

7. Avery at first denied having a bonfire on the night. Later admitted that he did have a bonfire. Were the victims charred remains were.  ::)

And so. Even the most dedicated of Avery supporters conceed that Avery and Brendan were cleaning the garage with bleach and having a bonfire that night. They just cant admit the obvious implications of that.

Lets face it. An unprejudiced documentary would be about a creepy guy killing an autotrader employee that he became obsessed with. That is not going to get much viewers.

I found the first series to be emotionally manipulative and manipulative all over for the sake of getting veiwers.  I have no plan to watch the second for that reason :-\
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 20, 2018, 12:52:PM
dassey is almost certanly innocent im not sure about avery though.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 20, 2018, 01:08:PM
dassey is almost certanly innocent im not sure about avery though.


They cant both be innocent. Brendan Dassey does not deny helping Avery clean the garage with bleach and having a bonfire that night.


The only way he can innocent is if he was too stupid to work out what was happening.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 20, 2018, 01:13:PM

They cant both be innocent. Brendan Dassey does not deny helping Avery clean the garage with bleach and having a bonfire that night.


The only way he can innocent is if he was too stupid to work out what was happening.

what evdence do they have aginst dacy other than a corced confession nothing that i can see.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 20, 2018, 02:32:PM
There is a lot of evidence against Avery that the show does not mention. For example

1. Avery kept requesting from Auto Trader specifically that they send Teresa Halbach down to take photos of cars.  Halbach once describes Avery meeting her almost naked (wearing just a towel)

2. Teresa only had two weeks left at this job. She was leaving because she didnt like it. Probably due the point I raised above.

3. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He desribes using some BDSM type restraints while he and avery raped her. Avery actually owned what Dassey desribed.

4. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He mentions he helped Avery clean up the floor of the crime scene with bleach. The jeans that Brendan Dassey admits wearing on the night in question were covered in bleach stains!

5. The bullet recovered from Averys garage that had the victims DNA on it. Was fired from Averys gun that he kept above his bed.

6. Steven Avery's blood was found INSIDE the victims car near the ignition. Avery had a cut finger on the day in question.

7. Avery at first denied having a bonfire on the night. Later admitted that he did have a bonfire. Were the victims charred remains were.  ::)

And so. Even the most dedicated of Avery supporters conceed that Avery and Brendan were cleaning the garage with bleach and having a bonfire that night. They just cant admit the obvious implications of that.

Lets face it. An unprejudiced documentary would be about a creepy guy killing an autotrader employee that he became obsessed with. That is not going to get much viewers.

I found the first series to be emotionally manipulative and manipulative all over for the sake of getting veiwers.  I have no plan to watch the second for that reason :-\

Most of what you have described above has been explained in the new series. His new lawyer is looking at the science and recreating the scene. I haven't made my mind up about guilt or innocence but if he is innocent, Dassey's brother would certainly be a suspect.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 20, 2018, 05:24:PM
Most of what you have described above has been explained in the new series. His new lawyer is looking at the science and recreating the scene. I haven't made my mind up about guilt or innocence but if he is innocent, Dassey's brother would certainly be a suspect.

Explained how?

He doesn’t have a new lawyer. Kathrine Zellner has been representing him for almost three years now. She has said a lot but never proved anything. She once tried to argue the burned remains is not Theresa despite her burned belongings being found among the bones. To me it’s just throwing mud and see what sticks.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 20, 2018, 06:04:PM
what evdence do they have aginst dacy other than a corced confession nothing that i can see.

Have you actually read what Brendan said? or just running with what you've been told?

Brendan has an IQ below 70 and the information he gave matched the scene and was very consistent with everything.

I found the part bellow rather interesting.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 20, 2018, 08:02:PM
Have you actually read what Brendan said? or just running with what you've been told?

Brendan has an IQ below 70 and the information he gave matched the scene and was very consistent with everything.

I found the part bellow rather interesting.

that means abslutly nothing the police could of fed him that info.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 20, 2018, 08:20:PM
that means abslutly nothing the police could of fed him that info.


Or he witnessed the murder and helped his uncle dispose of the body.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Zoso on October 20, 2018, 11:46:PM
Explained how?

He doesn’t have a new lawyer. Kathrine Zellner has been representing him for almost three years now. She has said a lot but never proved anything. She once tried to argue the burned remains is not Theresa despite her burned belongings being found among the bones. To me it’s just throwing mud and see what sticks.

Watch it
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 21, 2018, 12:55:PM
There is a lot of evidence against Avery that the show does not mention. For example

1. Avery kept requesting from Auto Trader specifically that they send Teresa Halbach down to take photos of cars.  Halbach once describes Avery meeting her almost naked (wearing just a towel) not true see documents and see season 2

2. Teresa only had two weeks left at this job. She was leaving because she didnt like it. Probably due the point I raised above. Not true as above

3. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He desribes using some BDSM type restraints while he and avery raped her. Avery actually owned what Dassey desribed. Did you see the dataset interview and the techniques they used are now being used to show police how not to interview a mentally challenged person etc etc

4. In Brendan Dasseys confession. He mentions he helped Avery clean up the floor of the crime scene with bleach. The jeans that Brendan Dassey admits wearing on the night in question were covered in bleach stains! No not covered. No blood not a speck where someone was supposed to have been shot in the head twice and who had been raped and throat cut beforehand . Dust still everywhere 

5. The bullet recovered from Averys garage that had the victims DNA on it. Was fired from Averys gun that he kept above his bed. It was planted you will see how in season 2

6. Steven Avery's blood was found INSIDE the victims car near the ignition. Avery had a cut finger on the day in question. Season 2

7. Avery at first denied having a bonfire on the night. Later admitted that he did have a bonfire. Were the victims charred remains were.  ::) the bones were found on 3 different locations 2 of them not on the Avery property. They were clearly planted as she was killed off his property. Season 2 explains this

And so. Even the most dedicated of Avery supporters conceed that Avery and Brendan were cleaning the garage with bleach and having a bonfire that night. They just cant admit the obvious implications of that.

Lets face it. An unprejudiced documentary would be about a creepy guy killing an autotrader employee that he became obsessed with. That is not going to get much viewers.

I found the first series to be emotionally manipulative and manipulative all over for the sake of getting veiwers.  I have no plan to watch the second for that reason :-\

Just had to log back in for this, David please watch the second season before making claims that are false. You seem to be reading stuff in papers etc instead of reading the documents. He and Brendan are innocent. In season 2 you will see what corruption there is .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 21, 2018, 12:57:PM
Most of what you have described above has been explained in the new series. His new lawyer is looking at the science and recreating the scene. I haven't made my mind up about guilt or innocence but if he is innocent, Dassey's brother would certainly be a suspect.

Hi Caroline hope you’re well.
have you watched both one and season 2. Im on board with innocence
Both are compelling and good viewing
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 21, 2018, 02:03:PM
Just had to log back in for this, David please watch the second season before making claims that are false. You seem to be reading stuff in papers etc instead of reading the documents. He and Brendan are innocent. In season 2 you will see what corruption there is .

I finished watching the 1st series thinking Avery was innocent then read into the documents you suggest I read and realised the show was a load of misleading crap.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 21, 2018, 05:13:PM
the thing i find strangest about this case is avery faling to crush the victems car seeing as his buisnes is crushing.

now i know hes not exactly a clever man but surely even he would think to do that.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 21, 2018, 06:30:PM
Hi Caroline hope you’re well.
have you watched both one and season 2. Im on board with innocence
Both are compelling and good viewing

Hi Notsure :) - Yes, I did watch the first series and was kind of left with more questions than answers. However, Kathleen Zellner is trying to recreate the crime scene to see if what was actually found on the day, is plausible - which is interesting (especially when they tried to recreate the blood stain near the ignition and couldn't). The problem with trying to recreate things though is that you're not using the actual evidence or the same individuals. There may have been something unique about the way Avery tried to start the car which they simply can't recreate. I don't have a guilty/innocent opinion at the moment but I think Bobby Dassey's evidence is dodgy.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 21, 2018, 06:51:PM
Yes I can’t understand why he won’t talk if he’s innocent. . The whole thing is a complete mess. Zellner is trying to test the evidence which is a good thing. She needs to get her hands on the Rav 4 and they have been very reluctant to let her have any evidence at all. I think Kratz is a narcissist. What a wholly!

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 22, 2018, 01:45:PM
Hi Notsure :) - Yes, I did watch the first series and was kind of left with more questions than answers. However, Kathleen Zellner is trying to recreate the crime scene to see if what was actually found on the day, is plausible - which is interesting (especially when they tried to recreate the blood stain near the ignition and couldn't). The problem with trying to recreate things though is that you're not using the actual evidence or the same individuals. There may have been something unique about the way Avery tried to start the car which they simply can't recreate. I don't have a guilty/innocent opinion at the moment but I think Bobby Dassey's evidence is dodgy.

The prosecution already recreated the crime scene at his murder trial. Kathleen Zellner is selling a dead horse.

Here are all of Steven Avery's contradictory statements -

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/8cx6xz/bad_luck_steve_contradictions/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/8cx6xz/bad_luck_steve_contradictions/)


Well done to whoever put that together.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 22, 2018, 02:29:PM
the problem is the avery to be innocent wouldent that reuire someone to have killed the victem just to frame him im not saying that couldent happen but  it sounds a tad unlikely.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:51:PM
The prosecution already recreated the crime scene at his murder trial. Kathleen Zellner is selling a dead horse.

Here are all of Steven Avery's contradictory statements -

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/8cx6xz/bad_luck_steve_contradictions/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/8cx6xz/bad_luck_steve_contradictions/)


Well done to whoever put that together.

You really need to watch series 2 , this thread is about discussing what is in that show and you can't really contribute properly unless you have seen it imo i'm sure you will enjoy it any true crime buff would

I binge watched it over the weekend,
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:51:PM
On the blood disconnect, could it be that blood was left after a clean up?

I am having some difficulty getting my head round the blood being obtained from the sink

1. this meant someone needed to have known SA had bled in that sink AND not cleaned it up
2. they would have had to then go get it when it was still wet , yet there was wet AND dry FLAKES found in the car that belonged to SA
3. SA saw tail lights and head lights yet didn't think to go check his trailer

The Computer is described as the Dassey computer, and mention is made of Bobbie having the most access to the computer but also it is stated that Brendan also had access although not as much, could he have seen the images? is that where the rape and torture description in his confession came from?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:53:PM
Hi Notsure :) - Yes, I did watch the first series and was kind of left with more questions than answers. However, Kathleen Zellner is trying to recreate the crime scene to see if what was actually found on the day, is plausible - which is interesting (especially when they tried to recreate the blood stain near the ignition and couldn't). The problem with trying to recreate things though is that you're not using the actual evidence or the same individuals. There may have been something unique about the way Avery tried to start the car which they simply can't recreate. I don't have a guilty/innocent opinion at the moment but I think Bobby Dassey's evidence is dodgy.

I think Kathleen Zeller is a first class lawyer, her work on this case is impressive, why the heck the original defence team didnt hire a ballistics and blood splatter expert i do not know!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:54:PM
Just started watching this - just making a thread for comments.

If Avery is innocent, then Bobby Dassey is surely involved?

I suspect Bobby said in evidence that he saw TH go into SA trailer in return for the cops not prosecuting him for the filth he had on his computer, as far as i am aware he was never prosecuted for that, makes you wonder why doesn't it
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:55:PM
I keep coming back to the fact that if SA is innocent he is the most unluckiest guy ever, twice being the miscarriage of justice , does anyone know of any other case like that in the world? I don't
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:56:PM
Hi Notsure :) - Yes, I did watch the first series and was kind of left with more questions than answers. However, Kathleen Zellner is trying to recreate the crime scene to see if what was actually found on the day, is plausible - which is interesting (especially when they tried to recreate the blood stain near the ignition and couldn't). The problem with trying to recreate things though is that you're not using the actual evidence or the same individuals. There may have been something unique about the way Avery tried to start the car which they simply can't recreate. I don't have a guilty/innocent opinion at the moment but I think Bobby Dassey's evidence is dodgy.

I thought that mark on the dash board was not dissimillar to the shape of the key fob, but i am not clear if any of SA's blood was found on it, i think it might have swung on the key and left a mark on the dashboard having been covering in SA's blood from it dripping down from his open cut.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 03:59:PM

Or he witnessed the murder and helped his uncle dispose of the body.

the police did feed him the information, its clear in the confession they did.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 22, 2018, 07:09:PM
You really need to watch series 2 , this thread is about discussing what is in that show and you can't really contribute properly unless you have seen it imo i'm sure you will enjoy it any true crime buff would

I binge watched it over the weekend,

Thanks Indigo, I specifically wrote 'season 2' to distinguish it from the other thread.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 22, 2018, 07:19:PM
On the blood disconnect, could it be that blood was left after a clean up?

I am having some difficulty getting my head round the blood being obtained from the sink

1. this meant someone needed to have known SA had bled in that sink AND not cleaned it up
2. they would have had to then go get it when it was still wet , yet there was wet AND dry FLAKES found in the car that belonged to SA
3. SA saw tail lights and head lights yet didn't think to go check his trailer

The Computer is described as the Dassey computer, and mention is made of Bobbie having the most access to the computer but also it is stated that Brendan also had access although not as much, could he have seen the images? is that where the rape and torture description in his confession came from?

I agree about the sink. The only people who could have known about his cut were his family and relatives and I don't think any one of those would think about using a dropper to frame him. It's possible that the police turned up at his trailer while he was out but that's pretty far fetched.

Like I said, not comfortable with Bobby Dassey.

I am only up to episode 5 - I'll watch some later.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 22, 2018, 09:40:PM
I agree about the sink. The only people who could have known about his cut were his family and relatives and I don't think any one of those would think about using a dropper to frame him. It's possible that the police turned up at his trailer while he was out but that's pretty far fetched.

Like I said, not comfortable with Bobby Dassey.

I am only up to episode 5 - I'll watch some later.

be interested to hear your thoughts when you've watched it all.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 22, 2018, 10:19:PM
the police did feed him the information, its clear in the confession they did.

Watch it and listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 22, 2018, 11:50:PM
Watch it and listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s)

Where are the interviews previous this this one? - I have only listened to half of the first link and can't believe you don't think he's being manipulated!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 23, 2018, 02:54:AM
Where are the interviews previous this this one? - I have only listened to half of the first link and can't believe you don't think he's being manipulated!

After describing how he raped Teressa and helped Avery kill her.

Police: Why did you take part in it?

BD: I dunno

Police: I'm giving you an oportunity to tell us why you did this 

--long pause--

Police: Everyone has a reason for doing things. What was your reason for this?

BD: To see how it felt

Police: To see how what felt?

BD: Sex




This is not a coerced confession.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 23, 2018, 08:33:AM
After describing how he raped Teressa and helped Avery kill her.

Police: Why did you take part in it?

BD: I dunno

Police: I'm giving you an oportunity to tell us why you did this 

--long pause--

Police: Everyone has a reason for doing things. What was your reason for this?

BD: To see how it felt

Police: To see how what felt?

BD: Sex




This is not a coerced confession.

Yes it is coerced , you cannot pick and choose the odd phrase in isolation you need to see the whole thing and the fact they kept telling him he hadn’t told them everything . There was no evidence whatsoever that she was raped.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 23, 2018, 08:34:AM
Watch it and listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJt6j5E1y_s)

Read judge deffin’s judgement I’m on a train atm can’t find the link but I will do
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 12:49:PM
After describing how he raped Teressa and helped Avery kill her.

Police: Why did you take part in it?

BD: I dunno

Police: I'm giving you an oportunity to tell us why you did this 

--long pause--

Police: Everyone has a reason for doing things. What was your reason for this?

BD: To see how it felt

Police: To see how what felt?

BD: Sex




This is not a coerced confession.

Of course it is ........ also, you didn't post his initial interview - you need to hear the whole thing instead of cherry picking sections in isolation.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 23, 2018, 07:14:PM
Of course it is ........ also, you didn't post his initial interview - you need to hear the whole thing instead of cherry picking sections in isolation.

If its a coerced confession then why did Brendan make up the rape? The investigators had no idea of a rape until Brendan flat out told them the details.  ::)

In his cross examination he denies having gone to his uncles and claims that he made it all up. When asked why he told the police there was blood in the garage he answered because it was the color red. Here he slips up big time because he is now saying he was at his uncles garage and saw the red stuff on the floor.  ::)

Q: You made that all up?
A: Yes.
Q: You just happened to know Teresa's words?
A: No.
Q: How do you know what she said?
A: I made it up.
A: You made it up?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that you raped her?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that she told you not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: To do the right thing?
A: Yes.
Q: And to tell your uncle not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: You made that up?
A: Yes.

Q: Now, Mr. Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13 that you had gone over to  your Uncle Steven's after school and  she came home?
A: Yes.
Q: You did?
A: Yes.
Q: And, again, on May 15, the first tape we played, she's asking you why you didn't tell her. Why didn't you?
A: Because it didn't happen.
Q: Why did you tell her you went over there, sir?
A: I don't know.
Q: You lied to your mother as well?
A: Yes
Q: You've heard Detective Wiegert testify on Friday and Saturday morning; right?
A: Yes.
Q: And he said he had no idea that there was a sexual assault?
A: Yes.
Q: You were the one who brought up the fact of a sexual assault; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You brought up the rape; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You went over to your uncle's cabin because you knew you were going to have sex; right?
A: No.
Q: Why did you tell the police that your Uncle Steven was proud of you for what you had done?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say that you sexually assaulted her
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say you put your penis in her for five minutes?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you tell the police that you thought it was blood in the garage?
A: Because it was the color of red.
Q: Because it was the color of red?
A: Yeah


LOL
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 07:54:PM
If its a coerced confession then why did Brendan make up the rape? The investigators had no idea of a rape until Brendan flat out told them the details.  ::)

In his cross examination he denies having gone to his uncles and claims that he made it all up. When asked why he told the police there was blood in the garage he answered because it was the color red. Here he slips up big time because he is now saying he was at his uncles garage and saw the red stuff on the floor.  ::)

Q: You made that all up?
A: Yes.
Q: You just happened to know Teresa's words?
A: No.
Q: How do you know what she said?
A: I made it up.
A: You made it up?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that you raped her?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that she told you not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: To do the right thing?
A: Yes.
Q: And to tell your uncle not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: You made that up?
A: Yes.

Q: Now, Mr. Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13 that you had gone over to  your Uncle Steven's after school and  she came home?
A: Yes.
Q: You did?
A: Yes.
Q: And, again, on May 15, the first tape we played, she's asking you why you didn't tell her. Why didn't you?
A: Because it didn't happen.
Q: Why did you tell her you went over there, sir?
A: I don't know.
Q: You lied to your mother as well?
A: Yes
Q: You've heard Detective Wiegert testify on Friday and Saturday morning; right?
A: Yes.
Q: And he said he had no idea that there was a sexual assault?
A: Yes.
Q: You were the one who brought up the fact of a sexual assault; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You brought up the rape; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You went over to your uncle's cabin because you knew you were going to have sex; right?
A: No.
Q: Why did you tell the police that your Uncle Steven was proud of you for what you had done?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say that you sexually assaulted her
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say you put your penis in her for five minutes?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you tell the police that you thought it was blood in the garage?
A: Because it was the color of red.
Q: Because it was the color of red?
A: Yeah


LOL

Was she raped?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 23, 2018, 08:50:PM
Was she raped?

Yes she was raped. I should also add that Brendan told his younger cousin Kayla about it long before he told the police. Kayla then told her school counsellors and that's how the police ended up questioning Brendan at the school in the first place.


Q: All right. Kayla is telling her counselors of a conversation she had with you. She's telling her counselors in January that she talked to you in December and that you had told her about body parts. How could that be?
A: I don't know.



Q: Directing your attention to January of 2006, early January, did you have occasion to have contact with a student by the name of Kayla Avery?
A: Yes.
Q: Urn, would you describe for us, urn, first and foremost, how that contact occurred?
A: Kayla came into the counseling office and asked to speak to a counselor.
Q: All right. And, urn, who was present when she came in and asked to speak with a counselor?
A: It was myself and Karen Baumgartner.
Q: Tell us what happened?
A: Kayla came in, urn, to the office, and, urn, she was asked by Ms. Baumgarner -- Ms. Baumgartner if she minded that I was there, and Kayla aid, no. And she said she was there because she Was feeling scared.
Q: All right. Let me stop you there, first, and ask who else, if anyone, was present for this conversation?
A: No one else.
Q: All right. So there's just the three of you?
A: Correct.
Q: All right. And did Kayla reveal to the two of you why she was feeling scared and why she wanted to talk?
A: Yes.
Q: And what did she tell you?
A: She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.


Still watching this bullshit TV show? 
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 09:07:PM
Yes she was raped. I should also add that Brendan told his younger cousin Kayla about it long before he told the police. Kayla then told her school counsellors and that's how the police ended up questioning Brendan at the school in the first place.


Q: All right. Kayla is telling her counselors of a conversation she had with you. She's telling her counselors in January that she talked to you in December and that you had told her about body parts. How could that be?
A: I don't know.



Q: Directing your attention to January of 2006, early January, did you have occasion to have contact with a student by the name of Kayla Avery?
A: Yes.
Q: Urn, would you describe for us, urn, first and foremost, how that contact occurred?
A: Kayla came into the counseling office and asked to speak to a counselor.
Q: All right. And, urn, who was present when she came in and asked to speak with a counselor?
A: It was myself and Karen Baumgartner.
Q: Tell us what happened?
A: Kayla came in, urn, to the office, and, urn, she was asked by Ms. Baumgarner -- Ms. Baumgartner if she minded that I was there, and Kayla aid, no. And she said she was there because she Was feeling scared.
Q: All right. Let me stop you there, first, and ask who else, if anyone, was present for this conversation?
A: No one else.
Q: All right. So there's just the three of you?
A: Correct.
Q: All right. And did Kayla reveal to the two of you why she was feeling scared and why she wanted to talk?
A: Yes.
Q: And what did she tell you?
A: She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.


Still watching this bullshit TV show?

How do you know she was raped?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 23, 2018, 09:31:PM
How do you know she was raped?

he doesnt because there was no evidence she was raped.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 23, 2018, 09:35:PM
If its a coerced confession then why did Brendan make up the rape? The investigators had no idea of a rape until Brendan flat out told them the details.  ::)

In his cross examination he denies having gone to his uncles and claims that he made it all up. When asked why he told the police there was blood in the garage he answered because it was the color red. Here he slips up big time because he is now saying he was at his uncles garage and saw the red stuff on the floor.  ::)

Q: You made that all up?
A: Yes.
Q: You just happened to know Teresa's words?
A: No.
Q: How do you know what she said?
A: I made it up.
A: You made it up?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that you raped her?
A: Yes.
Q: You made up the part that she told you not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: To do the right thing?
A: Yes.
Q: And to tell your uncle not to do it?
A: Yes.
Q: You made that up?
A: Yes.

Q: Now, Mr. Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13 that you had gone over to  your Uncle Steven's after school and  she came home?
A: Yes.
Q: You did?
A: Yes.
Q: And, again, on May 15, the first tape we played, she's asking you why you didn't tell her. Why didn't you?
A: Because it didn't happen.
Q: Why did you tell her you went over there, sir?
A: I don't know.
Q: You lied to your mother as well?
A: Yes
Q: You've heard Detective Wiegert testify on Friday and Saturday morning; right?
A: Yes.
Q: And he said he had no idea that there was a sexual assault?
A: Yes.
Q: You were the one who brought up the fact of a sexual assault; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You brought up the rape; right?
A: Yes.
Q: You went over to your uncle's cabin because you knew you were going to have sex; right?
A: No.
Q: Why did you tell the police that your Uncle Steven was proud of you for what you had done?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say that you sexually assaulted her
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you say you put your penis in her for five minutes?
A: I don't know.
Q: Why did you tell the police that you thought it was blood in the garage?
A: Because it was the color of red.
Q: Because it was the color of red?
A: Yeah


LOL

he was "guessing " what they wanted him to say just like he guessed what his teachers at school wanted him to say when he didnt know the answers, he was 16 , extremely low IQ and other disabilities , here is Duffin's judgement https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/read-judges-full-decision-making-a-murderer-brendan-dassey-conviction-overturned-390030681.html
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 23, 2018, 10:02:PM
How do you know she was raped?


The perperators own admission of doing such. She was then killed to prevent her from reporting it to the police.


Come on you are not that stupid.

 


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 10:06:PM

The perperators own admission of doing such. She was then killed to prevent her from reporting it to the police.


Come on you are not that stupid.

So you don't know she was raped. Thought not!

At this point David, I'm telling you to pack in the personal bullshit - it's what you always do when you get caught out and no, I'm not that stupid and certainly not that stupid to fall for you half baked misleading crap. You don't know she was raped - FACT!



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 10:08:PM
he doesnt because there was no evidence she was raped.

Oh I was well aware that he didn't know  ;)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 10:09:PM
he was "guessing " what they wanted him to say just like he guessed what his teachers at school wanted him to say when he didnt know the answers, he was 16 , extremely low IQ and other disabilities , here is Duffin's judgement https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/read-judges-full-decision-making-a-murderer-brendan-dassey-conviction-overturned-390030681.html

Agreed!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 23, 2018, 10:33:PM
he was "guessing " what they wanted him to say just like he guessed what his teachers at school wanted him to say when he didnt know the answers, he was 16 , extremely low IQ and other disabilities , here is Duffin's judgement https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/read-judges-full-decision-making-a-murderer-brendan-dassey-conviction-overturned-390030681.html

Brendan had allready admitted his involment to Kayla Avery almost three months prior to the police questioning.

Brendan admitted to Kayla that he helped Steve move the body from the garage to the bonfire pit. At this time the police nor the media knew the garage was the murder scene and was only later proven as such. Hence Brendan knows only what someone involved could know.

Kayla also said that Brendan told her that Terressa was pinned down on a mattress also

If Brendan made it all up how could he have made up and told the same story Kayla told the school staff? He cant. He told the police exactly what he told Kayla. Because that is what took place!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 23, 2018, 11:36:PM
Brendan had allready admitted his involment to Kayla Avery almost three months prior to the police questioning.

Brendan admitted to Kayla that he helped Steve move the body from the garage to the bonfire pit. At this time the police nor the media knew the garage was the murder scene and was only later proven as such. Hence Brendan knows only what someone involved could know.

Kayla also said that Brendan told her that Terressa was pinned down on a mattress also

If Brendan made it all up how could he have made up and told the same story Kayla told the school staff? He cant. He told the police exactly what he told Kayla. Because that is what took place!

You mean like how Bamber told Julie that he arranged the deaths of his family?

If you know she made the statement, you will also know that she retracted it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 24, 2018, 02:06:AM
You mean like how Bamber told Julie that he arranged the deaths of his family?

If you know she made the statement, you will also know that she retracted it.

Mugford/Bamber is the complete opposite.

Kayla words and Brendans words match the crime scene. They cannot both have made up the same thing by chance. Kayla and Brendan have both told the same details only someone involved in crime could know.


Kayla retracted her statement at Dasseys trial because she didn't want to help send her cousin to prison. (Another complete opposite of the Bamber case)

Q: You also told the officers that Brendan told you he saw Teresa alive and pinned up, didn't you?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. And you love Brendan; right?
A: Yes. Very much.
Q: And you wouldn't tell -- You wouldn't say anything like that to get him in trouble, would you?
A: No. Not really.
Q: All right. But yet you told the officers that those were the conversations you had with Brendan; isn't that right?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. You told -- You told the officers that Brendan told you he had seen Teresa pinned up in Steven's trailer, didn't you?
A: Yes.


Its rather obvious she told the school staff and the police under the impession Brendan had only seen what he said he saw not that he participated.

Furthermore if you watch Brendans police interviews he claims Bobby Dassey had gone out hunting that night. This is also coroborated by another hunter around that time. Brendan's brother had gone out with friends for trick or treating also.

This leaves only Steven Avery at scene of crime. The same Steven Avery who is the last person to see her alive. The same Steven Avery who called her twice shortly before her death from his mobile with the caller ID blocked. The same Steven Avery who had this poor womans bones and charred bellongings in his burn barrel.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 24, 2018, 06:04:AM

The perperators own admission of doing such. She was then killed to prevent her from reporting it to the police.


Come on you are not that stupid.

A coerced confession is NO confession , there is no corroboration , no dna evidence in the bedroom of rape not one single piece ! no evidence at all that TH was ever in that room!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 24, 2018, 06:05:AM
Mugford/Bamber is the complete opposite.

Kayla words and Brendans words match the crime scene. They cannot both have made up the same thing by chance. Kayla and Brendan have both told the same details only someone involved in crime could know.


Kayla retracted her statement at Dasseys trial because she didn't want to help send her cousin to prison. (Another complete opposite of the Bamber case)

Q: You also told the officers that Brendan told you he saw Teresa alive and pinned up, didn't you?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. And you love Brendan; right?
A: Yes. Very much.
Q: And you wouldn't tell -- You wouldn't say anything like that to get him in trouble, would you?
A: No. Not really.
Q: All right. But yet you told the officers that those were the conversations you had with Brendan; isn't that right?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. You told -- You told the officers that Brendan told you he had seen Teresa pinned up in Steven's trailer, didn't you?
A: Yes.


Its rather obvious she told the school staff and the police under the impession Brendan had only seen what he said he saw not that he participated.

Furthermore if you watch Brendans police interviews he claims Bobby Dassey had gone out hunting that night. This is also coroborated by another hunter around that time. Brendan's brother had gone out with friends for trick or treating also.

This leaves only Steven Avery at scene of crime. The same Steven Avery who is the last person to see her alive. The same Steven Avery who called her twice shortly before her death from his mobile with the caller ID blocked. The same Steven Avery who had this poor womans bones and charred bellongings in his burn barrel.

Wrong! for gawd sake watch part 2  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 24, 2018, 06:15:AM
Kayla's statement  ::)

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/41m7fi/kaylas_written_statement_about_brendan_march_7/

Fassbender.... oh boy!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 24, 2018, 09:22:AM
Wrong! for gawd sake watch part 2  ::)

Avery admits he is the last person to see her alive.  ::)


That show is not going to fool me again.


You are essentially trying to argue that someone else burned Teressa's body infront of Averys home and he never noticed anything. Give up already.


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 24, 2018, 06:00:PM
Avery admits he is the last person to see her alive.  ::)


That show is not going to fool me again.


You are essentially trying to argue that someone else burned Teressa's body infront of Averys home and he never noticed anything. Give up already.

In part 2 you will see evidence that indicates the body could not have been burned in an open pit , they have he world leading expert on it
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 24, 2018, 07:17:PM
In part 2 you will see evidence that indicates the body could not have been burned in an open pit , they have he world leading expert on it

Dr. John DeHaan, who has almost 50 years’ experience working with fires and bombs, said several pieces of evidence tell him Halbach was burned elsewhere, and her bones were planted behind Avery’s garage.

Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.
“Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.

Halbach’s body, he said, was burned in a vented, yet enclosed vessel that radiates a uniform amount of heat, something consistent with a metal burn barrel.

And what about the tire wires Wisconsin crime experts say were intertwined with Halbach’s bones? They weren’t, says DeHaan because the tires and the bones were not burned in the same fire.

“During fire exposure, the steel multistrand wires degrade, break, and fray to form bristles that readily trap any material coming into contact with them, during or after the fire,” says DeHaan. “Small calcined bone fragments are especially easy to trap. This has been observed in test fires where the tires were under or alongside a burned body as well as on top.”

https://www.inquisitr.com/4301682/making-a-murderer-fire-expert-teresa-halbach-not-burned-in-steven-averys-fire-pit/

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 25, 2018, 09:51:AM
Dr. John DeHaan, who has almost 50 years’ experience working with fires and bombs, said several pieces of evidence tell him Halbach was burned elsewhere, and her bones were planted behind Avery’s garage.

Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.
“Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.

Halbach’s body, he said, was burned in a vented, yet enclosed vessel that radiates a uniform amount of heat, something consistent with a metal burn barrel.

And what about the tire wires Wisconsin crime experts say were intertwined with Halbach’s bones? They weren’t, says DeHaan because the tires and the bones were not burned in the same fire.

“During fire exposure, the steel multistrand wires degrade, break, and fray to form bristles that readily trap any material coming into contact with them, during or after the fire,” says DeHaan. “Small calcined bone fragments are especially easy to trap. This has been observed in test fires where the tires were under or alongside a burned body as well as on top.”

https://www.inquisitr.com/4301682/making-a-murderer-fire-expert-teresa-halbach-not-burned-in-steven-averys-fire-pit/


You do realise that Brendan describes Steve crushing up the bones with a shovel then taking the bones out the burn barrel with a bucket and then burying them behind his garage where the fire pit is?


Seriously Caroline. This is embarrasing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 25, 2018, 10:32:AM
A recorded conversation between Dassey and his mother in prison.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."

Give up Already!!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 25, 2018, 12:10:PM
Dr. John DeHaan, who has almost 50 years’ experience working with fires and bombs, said several pieces of evidence tell him Halbach was burned elsewhere, and her bones were planted behind Avery’s garage.

Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.
“Burning a body in an open-air burn pit takes six to eight hours to accomplish thermal destruction to the degree I observed in Dr. Eisenberg’s reports and photos,” DeHaan wrote in the affidavit. “It is my opinion that the burned bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit could not have been burned to the degree I observed after four hours of burning in an open-air pit like the one behind Steven Avery’s garage.

Halbach’s body, he said, was burned in a vented, yet enclosed vessel that radiates a uniform amount of heat, something consistent with a metal burn barrel.

And what about the tire wires Wisconsin crime experts say were intertwined with Halbach’s bones? They weren’t, says DeHaan because the tires and the bones were not burned in the same fire.

“During fire exposure, the steel multistrand wires degrade, break, and fray to form bristles that readily trap any material coming into contact with them, during or after the fire,” says DeHaan. “Small calcined bone fragments are especially easy to trap. This has been observed in test fires where the tires were under or alongside a burned body as well as on top.”

https://www.inquisitr.com/4301682/making-a-murderer-fire-expert-teresa-halbach-not-burned-in-steven-averys-fire-pit/

i canget that the bones could of been planted but te ustion to me is why would they.

everything averys supporters have stated are possble but they just sound a tad unlikely.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 25, 2018, 12:13:PM
were was avery when people supposedly planting human remains in his scrap yard how did they do this without him noticing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 25, 2018, 12:43:PM
were was avery when people supposedly planting human remains in his scrap yard how did they do this without him noticing.


Avery claims he was at home alone all night. And did'nt use his burn pit or burn barrell that night. Despite numerous witnesses seeing him having a bonfire later that night.

Also how did the "real killer" get the rife from Stevens home and put it back without him knowing?  How did the "real killer" shoot Teressa in his garage multiple times without him hearing?

Brendans older brother is out hunting with a friend. Brendans younger brothers are out trick or treating. This leaves only Steven and Brendan near the crime scene.

The whole argument for their innocence is absolutely unequivocally laughable.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 25, 2018, 05:12:PM
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/steven-averys-lawyer-zellner-offers-10000-in-proof-of-guilt-challenge-197517/

Collect your 10k David .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 25, 2018, 05:14:PM
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/597a4c40ff7c509fce44a62f/1501187137394/Final+Avery+100+Questions+7-27.pdf
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 25, 2018, 06:06:PM
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/steven-averys-lawyer-zellner-offers-10000-in-proof-of-guilt-challenge-197517/

Collect your 10k David .

I have read through all the questions before. I can answer most of them but some are deliberately written in such a way its not really possible to answer them. Some questions are not even questions. for example "question" 25

"Provide any re-enactment videos or photographs, conducted with a similar bookcase, which demonstrate that Ms. Halbach’s sub-key could have been dislodged by the “none too gentle” twisting and turning of the bookcase, fallen through the gap between the back panel and the frame of the bookcase, and landed by Mr. Avery’s slippers located on the northwest side of the bookcase."

This is not a question.

This whole thing was written not to be completed.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:09:PM

You do realise that Brendan describes Steve crushing up the bones with a shovel then taking the bones out the burn barrel with a bucket and then burying them behind his garage where the fire pit is?


Seriously Caroline. This is embarrasing.

Yes, you are embarrassing David - on that, we can agree.

Not sure why you keep referring to Brenden's description when it has been established (and agreed by judges) that they were coerced and officers supplied information to him.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:22:PM
A recorded conversation between Dassey and his mother in prison.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."

Give up Already!!

Do you actually know what a debate is? Or are you such a supercilious prick that the ONLY way you can discuss a topic is to try and have your opinion accepted by everyone?

Have you noticed how dead the forum is? At least we're trying to spark debate!

I haven''t made my mind up about Avery but this thread isn't to discuss what has gone before, it's to discuss what came from the new series and from your posts, you clearly have no idea. Either watch the show and contribute something constructive or take you own advice above!

By the way, the phone call with his mother happened AFTER police told him to call her and tell her he had confessed!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:26:PM

Avery claims he was at home alone all night. And did'nt use his burn pit or burn barrell that night. Despite numerous witnesses seeing him having a bonfire later that night.

Also how did the "real killer" get the rife from Stevens home and put it back without him knowing?  How did the "real killer" shoot Teressa in his garage multiple times without him hearing?

Brendans older brother is out hunting with a friend. Brendans younger brothers are out trick or treating. This leaves only Steven and Brendan near the crime scene.

The whole argument for their innocence is absolutely unequivocally laughable.

Why? Because a bullet was found with Teresa's DNA on it? You really should watch the series - but then again, your supercilious bragging is a source of much amusement!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:28:PM
I have read through all the questions before. I can answer most of them but some are deliberately written in such a way its not really possible to answer them. Some questions are not even questions. for example "question" 25

"Provide any re-enactment videos or photographs, conducted with a similar bookcase, which demonstrate that Ms. Halbach’s sub-key could have been dislodged by the “none too gentle” twisting and turning of the bookcase, fallen through the gap between the back panel and the frame of the bookcase, and landed by Mr. Avery’s slippers located on the northwest side of the bookcase."

This is not a question.

This whole thing was written not to be completed.

Then go ahead!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 25, 2018, 07:31:PM
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/597a4c40ff7c509fce44a62f/1501187137394/Final+Avery+100+Questions+7-27.pdf

no forensic evdence in the trialer is a hard one to explianif avery did it.

he could of cleaned it up but how dos he know what to clean hes not af forensic expert

and that would reuire some intense cleaning
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:32:PM
no forensic evdence in the trialer is a hard one to explianif avery did it.

he could of cleaned it up but how dos he know what to clean hes not af forensic expert

and that would reuire some intense cleaning

Apparently so given that Brendan said he cut her throat.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 25, 2018, 07:41:PM
Apparently so given that Brendan said he cut her throat.

and neather of them are exactl genuise so i cant see them  being able to get rid of evdence that well.

i mean how can destroy evdence that you cant see like dna.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 25, 2018, 07:56:PM
and neather of them are exactl genuise so i cant them  being able to get rid of evdence that well.

i mean how can destroy evdence that you cant see like dna.

Agreed and they were so adept at getting rid of evidence (on the one hand) but Steven left just enough blood in the car to implicate himself.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 25, 2018, 08:10:PM
Agreed and they were so adept at getting rid of evidence (on the one hand) but Steven left just enough blood in the car to implicate himself.

and makes no attempt to get rid of car even though his profession is get rid of cars.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 10:23:AM
Yes, you are embarrassing David - on that, we can agree.


I was referring to you. Fact is you hate to agree with me on anything. Even if it requires you to end up supporting this scummy murdering rapist who also molested his underage niece and threw a cat into a fire.

Evidence against Avery is overwhelming. You either have to agree with me or let your credibility on this forum sink even lower than it already has. You don’t want either but I think agreeing with me is the best option here for you.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 26, 2018, 11:00:AM
After watching MAM1 I was leaning towards SA guilt however having watched MAM2 I am now leaning the other way!  :o

Does anyone know if SA is a psychopath? did he get tested?

why would he go to all those lengths the prosecution claim to destroy evidence of the body and not go to the same lengths to destroy evidence of her vehicle ? they couldn't make that vehicle look more like it was planted if they tried! it was a half arsed attempt at concealing it with some branches and bits of wood, pathetic!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 26, 2018, 11:01:AM
Avery admits he is the last person to see her alive.  ::)


That show is not going to fool me again.


You are essentially trying to argue that someone else burned Teressa's body infront of Averys home and he never noticed anything. Give up already.

oh no, Bobbie was
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 11:04:AM
no forensic evdence in the trialer is a hard one to explianif avery did it.


No it is not. All he has to do is burn the bed sheets.


Just because no DNA was found does not mean it was never there. This was back in 2005 DNA technology was not as good as it is now.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 26, 2018, 11:06:AM
no forensic evdence in the trialer is a hard one to explianif avery did it.

he could of cleaned it up but how dos he know what to clean hes not af forensic expert

and that would reuire some intense cleaning

I agree and because it's not there means it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 11:13:AM
I agree and because it's not there means it didn't happen.


Wrong.

Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way, that was poorly
phrased. Looking at this exhibit on the screen
right now, which is a photograph of the garage,
if somebody had cleaned that garage floor with
bleach before the police came, you would not
expect to find any DNA would you?

A. If it was cleaned thoroughly enough and the
bleach destroyed all the DNA, no, I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 11:16:AM
I was referring to you. Fact is you hate to agree with me on anything. Even if it requires you to end up supporting this scummy murdering rapist who also molested his underage niece and threw a cat into a fire.

Evidence against Avery is overwhelming. You either have to agree with me or let your credibility on this forum sink even lower than it already has. You don’t want either but I think agreeing with me is the best option here for you.

No, I have agreed with you in the past however, the thread is about the new series which you haven't watched. While we're on the subject, I feel the same way about Bamber and my credibility doesn't go anywhere simply because I don't agree with you.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 11:19:AM

Wrong.

Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way, that was poorly
phrased. Looking at this exhibit on the screen
right now, which is a photograph of the garage,
if somebody had cleaned that garage floor with
bleach before the police came, you would not
expect to find any DNA would you?


A. If it was cleaned thoroughly enough and the
bleach destroyed all the DNA, no, I wouldn't.


No blood or DNA in the bedroom or marks on the bed where she was supposed to have been both tied and chained.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 11:23:AM
oh no, Bobbie was

From his own admission, he stated that he saw her drive off and disappeared himself. Her phone pinged off a tower a couple of miles down the road away from the Avery property! AND someone reported seeing her car along the same road a couple of days before being found on the Avery property and a report was never filed - it just turned up on the Avery lot. Her day planner which had entries written that afternoon was found BACK t her apartment when she didn't have time to return there. How did it get from her car to her apartment when her car was missing?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 12:02:PM
 ::)


"You're going to hear Brendan tell the
officers that the vehicle was driven down to that
pit area that we, uh, talked about, that it was '
concealed with branches and a car hood, and the
license plates were removed, and Steven Avery,
for some reason, went underneath the hood of, uh,
Teresa's vehicle

Brendan Dassey will tell you that the
garage that, thereafter, when they walked back,
that the garage was cleaned with bleach, was
cleaned with gas, was cleaned with paint thinner,
that Mr. Avery took the Toyota key, put it into
his bedroom, that Teresa's clothes were thrown
onto the fire.


They're statements from Brendan.
Remember this. Brendan's telling you that her
clothes were thrown on the fire, that Avery's
finger was cut and actively bleeding at the time,
that Teresa's cell phone and camera were burned
in the burn barrel earlier that day, and that
Steven's girlfriend, Jodi, Jodi Stachowski, had
called Steven Avery's house at least twice while
Brendan was at the house.

Those are the statements of an
individual. The details of an individual who's
committed rape and murder and mutilation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

She gets a full profile that's Steven Avery's sweat.
Steven Avery's sweat is found on the hood latch, just
like it should happen if Brendan is to believed that
Uncle Steve went under the hood.
Again, facts not known by law
enforcement at the time Brendan made these
statements.

Brendan says that the garage floor was
cleaned with paint thinner. You're going to hear
from a man by the name of John Ertl, from the
Crime Lab, who will talk about a three- or
four-foot circle, just to the left and behind the
riding tractor, uh, which is a big bleach stain.
Uh, Mr. Ertl will talk about that bleach stain.
You'll see that bleach and paint thinner are
recovered. Uh, but perhaps most importantly,
Brendan, himself, hands over to Investigator
Fassbender his jeans. He says, these were the
pants I was wearing that night, and these pants
are splashed with bleach from cleaning uncle
Steve's garage.
Brendan said that, uh, Teresa's
Halbach's, uh, key was put into the bedroom. You
already know that the key was found in Uncle
Steve's bedroom.


---------------------------------------

Brendan says that Teresa's cell phone
and camera were burned in Avery's burn barrel.
Burn barrel was outside the car. You're going to
hear and read a report from a gentleman by the
name of Curtis Thomas. Mr. Thomas works at the
FBI in Virginia. Mr. Thomas got to see all these
electronics which were recovered from Mr. Avery's
burn barrell guess what was in there?
Teresa Halbach's Motorola V3 RAZR cell phone,
Teresa Halbach's PowerShot A310 digital camera
are found, just like Brendan said they would be.
Lastly, did Avery's girlfriend call
twice on October 31? Phone records will indicate
that a woman by the name of Jodi Stachowski, the
girlfriend of Steven Avery, called twice on the
31st, just like Brendan said.
"

Gee poor Brendan. He made up so much stuff that just so happened to be true!  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 12:35:PM
 ::)

Brendan describes Steven taking Teresa's bones out of the burn barrel smashing them with a shovel and then hiding them behind the garage.


Come Stevens trial two years later the forensic expert confirms this is indeed what happened!


A. Well, we have actually been able to recover
fragmentary teeth, facial bones, very small bones
from the body, including even we found bones from
the middle ear, which are about a millimeter in
size, in one of these locations where the bones
have been moved to.

Q. In other words, they have survived -- some of
these small bones have survived moving?
A. Yes, they have.
Q. And then identifiable in another place?
A. Yes, that's correct.



Just how did Brendan make up all this stuff that just so happened to match the crime scene before the details transpired at trial?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Its a mystery... ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 01:13:PM
Here is another good point the prosecutor pointed out. All the other photos Teresa took for Steven the car was then left on display for customers to look at. Yet why did the van that Teresa took photos of not end up there like all the others? Because Steven knows there will no auto trader advert since he has killed Teresa and burned her camera.



You heard from the supervisor of Auto
Trader, Ms Schuster, that Ms Halbach had taken
six prior photos at the Avery salvage property.
And we put these six photos, early on, into the
case, into evidence. You can note on most of the
photos, just how close they are in proximity to
Mr. Avery's trailer.
These photos, as you heard, were taken,
the first on June 20th, and the last on October
10th, of 2005. I think the inference that you
also may want to draw on as you think weeks ahead
from the presentation of this evidence is, after
these photos are taken, after a car goes into
Auto Trader Magazine, what's done with it.
You can actually answer that question by
some of the other photos that I showed you.
What's done with these cars doesn't do Mr. Avery

any good, or whoever is selling a car, any good,
to leave these items back by Mr. Avery's garage,
or back by his trailer.
But after the Auto Trader picture is
taken, these items are put up on the corner, what
is called the corner by the business property.
We know that because of Ms Buchner, Lisa Buchner,
when she testified in this case, that she
testified that she saw a woman taking pictures of
cars that were for sale. And, in fact, we
pointed out these two vehicles, the Grand Prix
and the Blazer, that Ms Halbach had earlier, or
just within the last month or six weeks had taken
photographs of.

And, so, when a photo is taken, when it
goes into the Auto Trader, and when it has to be
sold, it makes sense to put those vehicles up in
a place where people will see them. People that
are coming into the auto salvage business, people
that will drive by, as you remember the overall
view of this property, that will drive by those
vehicles and might naturally get out and take a
picture and they might want to buy that kind of
vehicle.

Now, we have also heard, and I will
argue, importantly, that the van that Ms Halbach
took a picture of, remained in exactly the same
location, remained there from the 31st, when Ms
Halbach took the picture, at least through the
5th, when the officers took control of the scene.
Now, I'm going to argue and you should
ask yourself why, you should ask yourself why,
what inference can I draw by that. I will argue
that the inference is that Mr. Avery knows that
the van is not going in the Auto Trader Magazine.
Mr. Avery knows that that picture is never going
to make it to Auto Trader, because he's taken the
camera and he's burned it. He's put it into the
burn barrel.






Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 26, 2018, 02:39:PM
I'm not even reading David's posts any more, despite not having watched series two he still keeps banging on about stuff that has in fact been dealt with in series 2 so its a waste of time reading his posts,
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 03:20:PM
Here is another good point the prosecutor pointed out. All the other photos Teresa took for Steven the car was then left on display for customers to look at. Yet why did the van that Teresa took photos of not end up there like all the others? Because Steven knows there will no auto trader advert since he has killed Teresa and burned her camera.



You heard from the supervisor of Auto
Trader, Ms Schuster, that Ms Halbach had taken
six prior photos at the Avery salvage property.
And we put these six photos, early on, into the
case, into evidence. You can note on most of the
photos, just how close they are in proximity to
Mr. Avery's trailer.
These photos, as you heard, were taken,
the first on June 20th, and the last on October
10th, of 2005. I think the inference that you
also may want to draw on as you think weeks ahead
from the presentation of this evidence is, after
these photos are taken, after a car goes into
Auto Trader Magazine, what's done with it.
You can actually answer that question by
some of the other photos that I showed you.
What's done with these cars doesn't do Mr. Avery

any good, or whoever is selling a car, any good,
to leave these items back by Mr. Avery's garage,
or back by his trailer.
But after the Auto Trader picture is
taken, these items are put up on the corner, what
is called the corner by the business property.
We know that because of Ms Buchner, Lisa Buchner,
when she testified in this case, that she
testified that she saw a woman taking pictures of
cars that were for sale. And, in fact, we
pointed out these two vehicles, the Grand Prix
and the Blazer, that Ms Halbach had earlier, or
just within the last month or six weeks had taken
photographs of.

And, so, when a photo is taken, when it
goes into the Auto Trader, and when it has to be
sold, it makes sense to put those vehicles up in
a place where people will see them. People that
are coming into the auto salvage business, people
that will drive by, as you remember the overall
view of this property, that will drive by those
vehicles and might naturally get out and take a
picture and they might want to buy that kind of
vehicle.

Now, we have also heard, and I will
argue, importantly, that the van that Ms Halbach
took a picture of, remained in exactly the same
location, remained there from the 31st, when Ms
Halbach took the picture, at least through the
5th, when the officers took control of the scene.
Now, I'm going to argue and you should
ask yourself why, you should ask yourself why,
what inference can I draw by that. I will argue
that the inference is that Mr. Avery knows that
the van is not going in the Auto Trader Magazine.
Mr. Avery knows that that picture is never going
to make it to Auto Trader, because he's taken the
camera and he's burned it. He's put it into the
burn barrel.


Probably because the car wasn't his, it was his sisters.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 03:33:PM
Probably because the car wasn't his, it was his sisters.

No he left the van near his trailer and didn't bother putting it in the display area for customers to look at because he knew there would be no auto trader advert for it. How did he know this?  he had killed the photographer and burned her camera.  ;D

Circumstancial evidence. You know.. the kind of stuff you like to protend exists against Jeremy.  ;D

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6736.msg308517.html#msg308517 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6736.msg308517.html#msg308517)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 04:36:PM
No he left the van near his trailer and didn't bother putting it in the display area for customers to look at because he knew there would be no auto trader advert for it. How did he know this?  he had killed the photographer and burned her camera.  ;D

Circumstancial evidence. You know.. the kind of stuff you like to protend exists against Jeremy.  ;D

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6736.msg308517.html#msg308517 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6736.msg308517.html#msg308517)

No what? Are you saying it was his car?

I don't 'protend' anything and I don't think 'protend' is actually a thing?

Back to 'trolling' for old posts or did your errrrr PM buddy dig it out for you?  ::)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 06:32:PM
 ::)


"I am the owner of Avery’s Auto Salvage in Two Rivers Wisconsin. I was at the salvage yard the day the girl came to take a picture of the Dodge mini-van. Steven went down to the trailer house that he is staying in with the girl. I don ’t know the girl’s name but she is the one who normally came to take pictures. I don ’t know if Steven was in the girl’s vehicle or if he took his own. Steve was gone for about 10 minutes and I did not see the girl after they went to take the pictures or before. I asked Steven where he went and he told me to take pictures with the girl to place in a magazine to sell the van. Steven told me that the girl left. Just Steve, my brother Earl and l were at the salvage yard that day."


Why did Steve tell the salvage yard owner the girl had left? Steve nor anyone else reported seeing her leave. Nor could she have left because she was a pile of bones and ashes behind Steve's garage.  ::)

Why would the guy who has this woman's bones and ashes hidden behind his property be disonest and tell people she had left?

(https://i.redd.it/b1tifaxls3t01.png)

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 07:00:PM
::)


"I am the owner of Avery’s Auto Salvage in Two Rivers Wisconsin. I was at the salvage yard the day the girl came to take a picture of the Dodge mini-van. Steven went down to the trailer house that he is staying in with the girl. I don ’t know the girl’s name but she is the one who normally came to take pictures. I don ’t know if Steven was in the girl’s vehicle or if he took his own. Steve was gone for about 10 minutes and I did not see the girl after they went to take the pictures or before. I asked Steven where he went and he told me to take pictures with the girl to place in a magazine to sell the van. Steven told me that the girl left. Just Steve, my brother Earl and l were at the salvage yard that day."


Why did Steve tell the salvage yard owner the girl had left? Steve nor anyone else reported seeing her leave. Nor could she have left because she was a pile of bones and ashes behind Steve's garage.  ::)

Why would the guy who has this woman's bones and ashes hidden behind his property be disonest and tell people she had left?



 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

What did he have time to do in 10 minutes?


https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/making-a-murderer-defense-implicates-new-avery-nephew-in-murder-126346/


However, according to Zellner’s motion, Bobby and Brendan’s older brother Bryan Dassey told Department of Justice officials in November 2005 that Bobby had told him that he did see Halbach leave the property that day. Bryan Dassey recently doubled down on his recollection, signing an affidavit stating, “I distinctly remember Bobby telling me, ‘Steven could not have killed her because I saw her leave the property on October 31, 2005.'”



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 26, 2018, 07:15:PM
https://twitter.com/i/moments/1054799869938987012
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 07:49:PM
https://twitter.com/i/moments/1054799869938987012

Interesting - thanks
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 10:07:PM
Its has also become apparent to me that the vial of Avery's blood that the police had since 1996 cant have been used to plant the blood in Teressa's car. Because Avery's blood in the car had none of the preservative EDTA present in them. The vial has been scientifically excluded.

"And this planting, this vial planting
defense, even from a common sense standpoint, is
absolutely ludicrous.
But what we were able to do, what you
heard, is scientifically exclude that vial of
blood. You heard from Dr. LeBeau, who testified
that this blood is loaded with EDTA and this
blood, and this blood, and this blood, have no
detectable levels of EDTA. And so instead of
calling all of the people with keys and with
codes, and people in the Clerk's Office, and who
might have seen Lieutenant Lenk or Colborn, or
all those kinds of things, instead of doing it
that way, we only had to call one witness, who
scientifically could tell you that there is
absolutely no way that that vial of blood was
used to plant.
In fact, that very question was asked of
Dr. LeBeau, the head of the toxicology section,
or the unit at the FBI. And he said, by a
reasonable degree of scientific certainty, this
vial of blood is excluded, that means it's not
it, it's excluded as the source of those three
bloodstains."


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 26, 2018, 10:49:PM
Its has also become apparent to me that the vial of Avery's blood that the police had since 1996 cant have been used to plant the blood in Teressa's car. Because Avery's blood in the car had none of the preservative EDTA present in them. The vial has been scientifically excluded.

"And this planting, this vial planting
defense, even from a common sense standpoint, is
absolutely ludicrous.
But what we were able to do, what you
heard, is scientifically exclude that vial of
blood. You heard from Dr. LeBeau, who testified
that this blood is loaded with EDTA and this
blood, and this blood, and this blood, have no
detectable levels of EDTA. And so instead of
calling all of the people with keys and with
codes, and people in the Clerk's Office, and who
might have seen Lieutenant Lenk or Colborn, or
all those kinds of things, instead of doing it
that way, we only had to call one witness, who
scientifically could tell you that there is
absolutely no way that that vial of blood was
used to plant.
In fact, that very question was asked of
Dr. LeBeau, the head of the toxicology section,
or the unit at the FBI. And he said, by a
reasonable degree of scientific certainty, this
vial of blood is excluded, that means it's not
it, it's excluded as the source of those three
bloodstains."


Also dealt with in series 2  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 26, 2018, 11:15:PM
The police had no opportunity to plant the blood.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2018, 09:10:AM
Know nothing about this case. But it seems a civilised discussion was taking place. What a pity David posted another picture.

But if he's allowed to do it, he will.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 09:36:AM
Know nothing about this case.


They are arguing for Averys innocence. This man who has his blood inside the victims car, the victims bones hidden behind his property and the murder weapon hanging on his wall.

This is why I am laughing Adam.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Adam on October 27, 2018, 09:47:AM

They are arguing for Averys innocence. This man who has his blood inside the victims car, the victims bones hidden behind his property and the murder weapon hanging on his wall.

This is why I am laughing Adam.

Sounds like a police frame to me !
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 27, 2018, 11:26:AM
i can see both sides on face of it hes cliams of innocence do sound absurd but at the same time how do you explian the lack of fronsic trace evdence in his trailer.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 11:56:AM

They are arguing for Averys innocence. This man who has his blood inside the victims car, the victims bones hidden behind his property and the murder weapon hanging on his wall.

This is why I am laughing Adam.

Actually (you moron), that's not what was being argued but you're too deranged to understand. We are discussing the new series and the new evidence - you haven't watched it so no sweet FA about it. As usual though, you can't help setting yourself up as an authority! No matter what the case, up you come pretending you know all about it  ::)

I think I have repeated several times now that I haven't completely made up my mind and haven't actually said innocent or guilty but so what if someone does think he's innocent? You think Bamber is and have several bonkers theories to go along with it.

No wonder new posters are put off posting with arseholes like you. You're not even half as clever as you believe you are and over the past two years (or so), you have just become a nuisance poster who turns up to disrupt. Crawl back in your hole before the sunlight dries you out!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 12:09:PM
i can see both sides on face of it hes cliams of innocence do sound absurd but at the same time how do you explian the lack of fronsic trace evdence in his trailer.

The stuff that David is posting is from series 1. There s lots of new evidence and it was that that we were trying to discuss. I give up now because there is little point with that idiot stalking the board. Indigo is a relatively new poster and they can't be bothered either. Like the board can afford to loose posters.  >:(
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 12:51:PM
i can see both sides on face of it hes cliams of innocence do sound absurd but at the same time how do you explian the lack of fronsic trace evdence in his trailer.


There is forensic evidence in his trailer. The murder weapon and the victim's car key was found inside it!
Only Steve has a key to his trailer  ;D


Police cadaver dog sniffed round the whole junk yard and only gave signals to the police in two place's

1) Teresa Hallbach's car (this is how it found found in the first place)

2) Averys's Garage/Trailer
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 01:15:PM

There is forensic evidence in his trailer. The murder weapon and the victim's car key was found inside it!
Only Steve has a key to his trailer  ;D


Police cadaver dog sniffed round the whole junk yard and only gave signals to the police in two place's

1) Teresa Hallbach's car (this is how it found found in the first place)

2) Averys's Garage/Trailer

Again, old news. You're out of touch David.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 02:11:PM
Actually (you moron), that's not what was being argued but you're too deranged to understand. We are discussing the new series and the new evidence - you haven't watched it so no sweet FA about it. As usual though, you can't help setting yourself up as an authority! No matter what the case, up you come pretending you know all about it  ::)

That's because I am using the case evidence as a whole to refute the BS this show peddles.

I think I have repeated several times now that I haven't completely made up my mind and haven't actually said innocent or guilty but so what if someone does think he's innocent? You think Bamber is and have several bonkers theories to go along with it.

The Bamber theory is not bonkers. Even you think he was framed with the silencer. You even conceed Julie was not truthfull. What is bonkers is the idea that he was behined all of Julie's lies and that he is somehow guilty because 30 years later he said he had a bath that night contrary to 1985 he wasnt too sure if he had a bath than night or not.

No wonder new posters are put off posting with arseholes like you. You're not even half as clever as you believe you are and over the past two years (or so), you have just become a nuisance poster who turns up to disrupt. Crawl back in your hole before the sunlight dries you out!

Back in projection room are we?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 02:31:PM
Sounds like a police frame to me !


Indeed. Last year Zellner got him to change his story and it all came back to him  ::)

This is from Avery new witness statement from June of last year

"on November 4th, I woke up at 6:00 a.m and went into the bathroom to take a shower. I saw that most of the blood on my sink, which I had not cleaned up the previous night, was gone It seemed to me that the blood had been cleaned up. I did not clean the blood and none of my family members had been in my trailer"

So the police sneeked into his bathroom while he was asleep and extracted his wet blood from his sink (they just happned to know it would be there). They then managed to keep the blood wet until the car was discovered to then plant inside the car.  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 02:37:PM
That's because I am using the case evidence as a whole to refute the BS this show peddles.

The Bamber theory is not bonkers. Even you think he was framed with the silencer. You even conceed Julie was not truthfull. What is bonkers is the idea that he was behined all of Julie's lies and that he is somehow guilty because 30 years later he said he had a bath that night contrary to 1985 he wasnt too sure if he a bath than night or not.

Back in projection room are we?

You're not using the case evidence because you don't know the latest findings, you're just repeating the same stuff and ignoring what others are saying. It's what you always do.

Your theories on the Bamber case are bonkers, trying to convince people that YOU can tell June had LM but Sheila didn't from a grainy old orange tinted picture but ignoring the dried cracked blood on Sheila's face and the discoloration. The ONLY reason you are able to drum up support is because certian innocent supporters will agree with anything as long as it's in favour of innocence.

Your notion that the police built a case around RWB is also nuts and that ultimately, HE was behind Julie's evidence - crackers! Oh and that the blood from the silence came from the buckets!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Best ask Bamber about those buckets!!  :-X :-X

Grow up David!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 02:43:PM

Indeed. Last year Zellner got him to change his story and it all came back to him  ::)

This is from Avery new witness statement from June of last year

"on November 4th, I woke up at 6:00 a.m and went into the bathroom to take a shower. I saw that most of the blood on my sink, which I had not cleaned up the previous night, was gone It seemed to me that the blood had been cleaned up. I did not clean the blood and none of my family members had been in my trailer"

So the police sneeked into his bathroom while he was asleep and extracted his wet blood from his sink (they just happned to know it would be there). They then managed to keep the blood wet until the car was discovered to then plant inside the car.  ::)

Perhaps they added it to a bucket of water?  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 27, 2018, 02:51:PM

They are arguing for Averys innocence. This man who has his blood inside the victims car, the victims bones hidden behind his property and the murder weapon hanging on his wall.

This is why I am laughing Adam.

i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 03:30:PM
i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.

There was a smear of blood near the ignition. Exactly where Steve would have placed his cut right finger had he drove the car! Since this blood was smeared onto the plastic it had to have been wet when it was placed there.

If Steve had left blood on his sink they basically have 15 minutes to steal the blood from his sink and smear it on the car. Even thou they hadn't even discovered the car yet.  :-\

"On December 1, 2016, I was present at Ms . Zellner's law office, where I observed fresh
blood, collected from a volunteer, being dripped into a sink. It is my understanding that
this sink was in the bathroom of Steven Avery's trailer in October and November 2005
and had been removed and transported to Ms. Zellner 's law office. I observed the fresh
blood coagulate and dry. The fresh blood began to dry and coagulate approximately 15
minutes after it was deposited in the sink. At that time, I observed blood flakes begin to
form in the sink. After approximately 28 minutes, all of the blood was dry."



There was also Steve's DNA in her car that did not come from blood. The defence at trial argued that the police used a Saliva swap from Avery that was kept in the Sheriffs office to plant the DNA there.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 07:14:PM
i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.

There was NONE on the door handle, NONE on the steering wheel and NONE on the keys. They tried several times to to transfer blood  to the area where it was found in Teresa's car but were unable to. David's post above doesn't take account of the new evidence because he doesn't know it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 07:57:PM
Stuart H. James forensic scientist and bloodstain pattern analyst with James and Associates
Forensic Consultants, Inc. in Fort Lauderdale, Florida states in his sworn affidavit;

OPINIONS REGARDING MS. HALBACH'S RA V-4-IGNITION STAIN

27. Through a series of experiments that I observed, I have concluded to a reasonable degree
of scientific certainty that the distribution of Mr. Avery's blood in various locations in the
passenger compartment of the RA V-4 are not consistent with purposeful behavior. The
prosecution told the jury that all of the blood deposited in the RA V-4 was from the cut on
the middle finger of Mr. Avery's right hand and that he was actively bleeding.
TT:2/12:85. However, there was no blood on the door handle, key, gearshift, interior
hood release, hood latch, hood prop, and battery cable.
28. It is my opinion that Mr. Avery's blood in the RA V-4 is consistent with being randomly
distributed from a source because his blood is present in some locations but absent is
some reasonably anticipated locations, such as those listed in ~ 27. The absence of blood
stains in these locations is inconsistent with an active bleeder.
29. The bloodstains belonging to Mr. Avery are consistent with an explanation other than Mr.
A very being in the RAV -4 and depositing his blood in those locations with his actively
bleeding cut finger. I-lad Mr. A very been actively bleeding in the RA V-4, it is my
opinion that his blood and bloody fingerprints would have been deposited elsewhere in
the vehicle.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 08:30:PM
There was NONE on the door handle, NONE on the steering wheel and NONE on the keys. They tried several times to to transfer blood  to the area where it was found in Teresa's car but were unable to. David's post above doesn't take account of the new evidence because he doesn't know it.


Why would there be blood on the door handle and steering wheel when the cut is on the upper part of his finger? The part of his finger that is cut is not coming into contact with those areas. If he was cut under his finger then that would be a valid point. But he wasn't.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 08:35:PM
Stuart H. James forensic scientist and bloodstain pattern analyst with James and Associates
Forensic Consultants, Inc. in Fort Lauderdale, Florida states in his sworn affidavit;

OPINIONS REGARDING MS. HALBACH'S RA V-4-IGNITION STAIN

27. Through a series of experiments that I observed, I have concluded to a reasonable degree
of scientific certainty that the distribution of Mr. Avery's blood in various locations in the
passenger compartment of the RA V-4 are not consistent with purposeful behavior. The
prosecution told the jury that all of the blood deposited in the RA V-4 was from the cut on
the middle finger of Mr. Avery's right hand and that he was actively bleeding.
TT:2/12:85. However, there was no blood on the door handle, key, gearshift, interior
hood release, hood latch, hood prop, and battery cable.
28. It is my opinion that Mr. Avery's blood in the RA V-4 is consistent with being randomly
distributed from a source because his blood is present in some locations but absent is
some reasonably anticipated locations, such as those listed in ~ 27. The absence of blood
stains in these locations is inconsistent with an active bleeder.
29. The bloodstains belonging to Mr. Avery are consistent with an explanation other than Mr.
A very being in the RAV -4 and depositing his blood in those locations with his actively
bleeding cut finger. I-lad Mr. A very been actively bleeding in the RA V-4, it is my
opinion that his blood and bloody fingerprints would have been deposited elsewhere in
the vehicle.

Circuit Court Judge has already dismissed this stuff.

"The reports submitted by the defendant are equivocal in their conclusions and do not establish an alternate interpretation of the evidence.  Given the totality of evidence submitted at trial and the ambiguous conclusions as stated in the experts’ reports, it cannot be said that a reasonable probability exists that a different result would be reached at a new trial based on these reports.  As such, the defendant has not met his burden in order to obtain a new trial."
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 09:44:PM
Circuit Court Judge has already dismissed this stuff.

"The reports submitted by the defendant are equivocal in their conclusions and do not establish an alternate interpretation of the evidence.  Given the totality of evidence submitted at trial and the ambiguous conclusions as stated in the experts’ reports, it cannot be said that a reasonable probability exists that a different result would be reached at a new trial based on these reports.  As such, the defendant has not met his burden in order to obtain a new trial."



At his trial the defence argued that Bobby Dassey could be the killer and that the police planted the blood from his 1996 blood tube and DNA from his 2003 Saliva swab. Because they jumped to the conclusion it was Steve Avery.

A re-trail would be much of the same except that someone took blood from his sink (withing 15 minutes of him bleeding in the sink) and planted it inside the car in that short time-frame. This whole argument rests on the Stevens recent claims that he noticed blood missing from the sink. Can you expect a reasonable jury to believe this combined with all the circumstancial evidence against him?

Furthermore an expert did testify at his trial that the bloodstain came from a finger.


"Q. And this -- I would like to ask you whether you
have an opinion, to a reasonable degree of
scientific certainty, whether this cut to the
hand is consistent with being the bloody object
that came in contact with the dashboard, by the
ignition switch of the RAV4?
Could the bloodstain that you
observed on the dashboard of Teresa Halbach's
RAV4, have come from a cut to a finger?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Stahlke, could you explain, what is
your experience with examining
contact transfer bloodstains.
A. Contact transfer bloodstains is a -- it can be a
transfer of a pattern. You can see in some
stains the outline of a particular -- of the
particular item that is bloody contacting a --
the unstained surface. And in some cases, you
can see the pattern or detail from the bloodied
item that has been transferred, then, onto an
unstained surface.
Q. And have you been to crime scenes and examined
contact transfer stains?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Do you know how many you have been to?
A. Well, I have been to approximately 200 field
responses. Of those, then, over 100 crime
scenes. And in every scene that has blood
present, I examine the stains to determine
whether or not there would be any additional
information that would be gained from those
stains that would be helpful in this
investigation."


I cant see a re-trial having a different outcome than the last.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 10:09:PM

At his trial the defence argued that Bobby Dassey could be the killer and that the police planted the blood from his 1996 blood tube and DNA from his 2003 Saliva swab. Because they jumped to the conclusion it was Steve Avery.

A re-trail would be much of the same except that someone took blood from his sink (withing 15 minutes of him bleeding in the sink) and planted it inside the car in that short time-frame. This whole argument rests on the Stevens recent claims that he noticed blood missing from the sink. Can you expect a reasonable jury to believe this combined with all the circumstancial evidence against him?

Furthermore an expert did testify at his trial that the bloodstain came from a finger.


"Q. And this -- I would like to ask you whether you
have an opinion, to a reasonable degree of
scientific certainty, whether this cut to the
hand is consistent with being the bloody object
that came in contact with the dashboard, by the
ignition switch of the RAV4?
Could the bloodstain that you
observed on the dashboard of Teresa Halbach's
RAV4, have come from a cut to a finger?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Stahlke, could you explain, what is
your experience with examining
contact transfer bloodstains.
A. Contact transfer bloodstains is a -- it can be a
transfer of a pattern. You can see in some
stains the outline of a particular -- of the
particular item that is bloody contacting a --
the unstained surface. And in some cases, you
can see the pattern or detail from the bloodied
item that has been transferred, then, onto an
unstained surface.
Q. And have you been to crime scenes and examined
contact transfer stains?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Do you know how many you have been to?
A. Well, I have been to approximately 200 field
responses. Of those, then, over 100 crime
scenes. And in every scene that has blood
present, I examine the stains to determine
whether or not there would be any additional
information that would be gained from those
stains that would be helpful in this
investigation."


I cant see a re-trial having a different outcome than the last.

It doesn't really matter where he said the blood came from, that could never be proven. However, a blood pattern expert has stated that he doesn't believe that blood could have gotten inside the car from his cut finger and as to your comment about the cut being on top, blood is liquid, it flows and as such, doesn't stay on top. Even if Avery is guilty, there is something wrong with the evidence THAT is the point!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 27, 2018, 11:02:PM
It doesn't really matter where he said the blood came from, that could never be proven. However, a blood pattern expert has stated that he doesn't believe that blood could have gotten inside the car from his cut finger and as to your comment about the cut being on top, blood is liquid, it flows and as such, doesn't stay on top. Even if Avery is guilty, there is something wrong with the evidence THAT is the point!

And a expert at trial said he believe's the stain did come from a finger. There is already counter expert evidence to refute the guy you are quoting.

If Avery is guilty, the blood got there from him driving the victims car. Its really that simple.

The picture I have attached is from a news clip the day the car was found. Here you can see the cut that Avery how claims is the source for all the blood he that he allegedly left in his sink less than 48 hours ago. It looks rather healed to me  :-\

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 27, 2018, 11:39:PM
And a expert at trial said he believe's the stain did come from a finger. There is already counter expert evidence to refute the guy you are quoting.

If Avery is guilty, the blood got there from him driving the victims car. Its really that simple.

The picture I have attached is from a news clip the day the car was found. Here you can see the cut that Avery how claims is the source for all the blood he that he allegedly left in his sink less than 48 hours ago. It looks rather healed to me  :-\

What guy? Trouble is David, you never provide links to these kind of claims - I guess you think your word is good enough - I don't

You saying it's that simple means absolutely nothing. The second series showed the blood spatter expert trying to recreate the stain, he couldn't and no matter how you play it down, if you cut your finger the blood flows from it it's doesn't just stay in the area of the cut so there would be blood at least on the steering wheel and the keys.

It looks healed to you - it looks healed to me because it isn't bleeding but that doesn't mean it was. Cuts can reopen and that one looks quite deep.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 12:30:AM
What guy? Trouble is David, you never provide links to these kind of claims - I guess you think your word is good enough - I don't

You saying it's that simple means absolutely nothing. The second series showed the blood spatter expert trying to recreate the stain, he couldn't and no matter how you play it down, if you cut your finger the blood flows from it it's doesn't just stay in the area of the cut so there would be blood at least on the steering wheel and the keys.

It looks healed to you - it looks healed to me because it isn't bleeding but that doesn't mean it was. Cuts can reopen and that one looks quite deep.

I have posted the relevant part of the trial transcript of the expert I am talking about. The series is very dishonest and one sided. They could have interviewed  the expert at trial that disagrees with them (I am assuming they didn’t) because they only show you what they want to show.

Did you know that Avery was happy to take a polygraph test to prove his innocence over the rape case? He passed the test.

He also told detective’s that he was happy to take a polygraph test to “prove” he didn't kill Teresa. Yet to this day he has avoided taking one. How comes?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 28, 2018, 01:21:AM
I have posted the relevant part of the trial transcript of the expert I am talking about. The series is very dishonest and one sided. They could have interviewed  the expert at trial that disagrees with them (I am assuming they didn’t) because they only show you what they want to show.

Did you know that Avery was happy to take a polygraph test to prove his innocence over the rape case? He passed the test.

He also told detective’s that he was happy to take a polygraph test to “prove” he didn't kill Teresa. Yet to this day he has avoided taking one. How comes?

You haven't posted a link so that people can read it themselves or named the expert in question. What trial are you talking about? There hasn't been a recent trial and Stuart James (the blood expert I quoted) has only recently carried out experiments to try and recreate the stain on the dashboard. His affidavit wasn't available at the trial.

Yes, I did know about the polygraph and although he passed, it didn't affect the outcome so taking one now would be risky. They don't measure truth telling just heart rate and galvanic skin response - in other words 'stress'.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 10:41:AM
if brenden daseys  confesion is genuine shouldent his dna be there as well.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 28, 2018, 12:05:PM
if brenden daseys  confesion is genuine should his dna be there as well.

it should be , along with all the DNA from the bedroom where a supposed rape and torture took place including stabbing TH in the stomach and cutting her throat, not one iota of her blood was found there  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 12:42:PM
You haven't posted a link so that people can read it themselves or named the expert in question.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/56a6f91025981d11f5754db6/1453783312211/Steven-Avery-Lab-Report.pdf

Done

What trial are you talking about?

Steven Avery's trial!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 12:47:PM
it should be , along with all the DNA from the bedroom where a supposed rape and torture took place including stabbing TH in the stomach and cutting her throat, not one iota of her blood was found there  ::)

but ive seen no mention of any forensic evidence linking to dassey
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 12:51:PM
if brenden daseys  confesion is genuine shouldent his dna be there as well.

No.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 01:03:PM

Brendan Dassey tells the investigators that Steven shot TH with his .22 in the garage. Investigators later find a .22 bullet from Stevens rifle with her DNA on it in the garage.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that Steven had moved the burned bones from the burn barrell to the burn pit. Later at Stevens trial the experts confirm that some of the bones had been moved to the burn pit.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that he cleaned up the the spot where TH was shot with bleach. Investigators later find bleach stains on the clothes he was wearing that night.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that Steven had lifted up a certain part of TH car. Investigators later find Stevens DNA in that exact same spot.


What are the chances of Brendan making up all these things that just so happened to be correct before the investigators even knew about them?  ::)








Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 02:08:PM
No.

are they not supposed to have taken turns raping her if so dasseys dna should certanly be there.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 02:16:PM
are they not supposed to have taken turns raping her if so dasseys dna should certanly be there.

Bit difficult to extract a sperm sample from a rape victim thats been reduced to nothing but bones and ashes.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 28, 2018, 02:53:PM
Bit difficult to extract a sperm sample from a rape victim thats been reduced to nothing but bones and ashes.

Omg Davis you are way way behind! Stop talking rubbish and watch series 2. You are just arguing for arguments sake and winding people up. I never saw it before but I do now!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 02:55:PM
Bit difficult to extract a sperm sample from a rape victim thats been reduced to nothing but bones and ashes.

hi dna should be in the trailer along with her dna.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 28, 2018, 03:20:PM
but ive seen no mention of any forensic evidence linking to dassey

that's because there is NO forensic evidence linking him to the crime.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 28, 2018, 03:32:PM
Omg Davis you are way way behind! Stop talking rubbish and watch series 2. You are just arguing for arguments sake and winding people up. I never saw it before but I do now!

Hate to say I told you so but .......  ;)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 03:37:PM
Omg Davis you are way way behind! Stop talking rubbish and watch series 2. You are just arguing for arguments sake and winding people up. I never saw it before but I do now!


No I am not. The target audience for this show is people who don't know anything about the case.

I have looked at all the facts and know the man is guilty as charged. You will have to pay me to sit through a second series of that dishonest and emotionally manipulative show.

PS: Tell me how you are supposed to get evidence of rape from a rape victim that is nothing but bones and ashes. How on earth do you do that?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 28, 2018, 03:47:PM
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/56a6f91025981d11f5754db6/1453783312211/Steven-Avery-Lab-Report.pdf

Done

Steven Avery's trial!

Thanks BUT you stated yesterday that

And a expert at trial said he believe's the stain did come from a finger. There is already counter expert evidence to refute the guy you are quoting.

Where is this 'new' counter evidence to counter claim Stuart James? James conducted his experiments in recent years and stated this in his affidavit

"All opinions rendered in this affidavit are based on new bloodstain pattern recommended
terminology. Specifically, the use of velocity as a determinative characteristic of bloodstains was abandoned with the production of the Working Group on Bloodstain
Pattern Analysis ("SWGST AIN") terminology. Bloodstain analyst Nick Stahlke
("Stahlke") used velocity to define and interpret the bloodstain pattern observed on the
rear cargo door of Ms. Halbach's
RA V-4. TT:2/27:49."

So methods used in 2005 to interpret blood stain pattern have been abandoned but perhaps this 'new counter claim' you speak of will be more useful than the original findings?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 03:50:PM
that's because there is NO forensic evidence linking him to the crime.

but there should be if he did what he claims to have done

how come avery manages to leave dna and he doesnt.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 04:37:PM
but there should be if he did what he claims to have done

how come avery manages to leave dna and he doesnt.


Because Brendans finger is not bleeding!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 04:58:PM
Thanks BUT you stated yesterday that

Where is this 'new' counter evidence to counter claim Stuart James? James conducted his experiments in recent years and stated this in his affidavit

"All opinions rendered in this affidavit are based on new bloodstain pattern recommended
terminology. Specifically, the use of velocity as a determinative characteristic of bloodstains was abandoned with the production of the Working Group on Bloodstain
Pattern Analysis ("SWGST AIN") terminology. Bloodstain analyst Nick Stahlke
("Stahlke") used velocity to define and interpret the bloodstain pattern observed on the
rear cargo door of Ms. Halbach's
RA V-4. TT:2/27:49."

So methods used in 2005 to interpret blood stain pattern have been abandoned but perhaps this 'new counter claim' you speak of will be more useful than the original findings?


I never said it was "new" I was explaining why Avery was denied a re-trial. And what would happen if such thing took place.

If such a senario took place Nick Stahlke would be called to testify again and say the same things. Stuart James would testify and it would be Nick Stahlke word against Stuart James. The Jury will then have to decied if Steven Avery is the killer or if this stealing blood from his sink and planting it in 15 minutes is plausible.

The same verdict is going to be reached. Guilty.

Nick Stahlke has similar credintials to Stuart James. You need to ask youself why a key expert witness like Nick Stahlke was never mentioned in the show. Because it didn't suit the narrative they wanted to portray.


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 28, 2018, 05:13:PM

No I am not. The target audience for this show is people who don't know anything about the case.

I have looked at all the facts and know the man is guilty is charged. You will have to pay me to sit through a second series of that dishonest and emotionally manipulative show.

PS: Tell me how you are supposed to get evidence of rape from a rape victim that is nothing but bones and ashes. How on earth do you do that?

He stated that he cut her throat and even if the cut wasn't deep enough to cause spurting, the cut is going to continue to bleed. She apparently was also stabbed in the stomach which would generate more blood but not one drop of this blood landed on the carpet, the walls or soaked through to the mattress? There were no scratches on the bed posts where she was supposedly chained and tied and Brendan gave different accounts depending on what the officers 'suggested'. In March he said she was stabbed in the bedroom but there was no trace of blood in the bedroom so in a later interview, Fassbender et al get him to change this to her being stabbed in the garage. Which means she was both stabbed and shot - which makes no sense in itself. He is simply changing his story to accommodate. For instance Brendan didn't provide the idea that Avery lifted the hood on Teresa's car, Fassbender did;

"FASSBENDER: Go ba, I wanna back ya just a bit, you’re down at the car, and you’re
hiding the car, right? (Brendan nods “yes”) Do you recall him taking the plates off?

BRENDAN: Yeah.

FASSBENDER: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin’ else, you need to tell us what he
did, after that car is parked there. It’s extremely important, (pause) Before you guys leave that
car.

BRENDAN: That he left the gun in the car.

FASSBENDER: That’s not what I’m thinkin’ about. He did something to that car. He took
the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).

BRENDAN: I don’t know.

FASSBENDER: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood
at all or anything like that? To do something to that car?


BRENDAN: Yeah."


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 06:02:PM
He stated that he cut her throat and even if the cut wasn't deep enough to cause spurting, the cut is going to continue to bleed. She apparently was also stabbed in the stomach which would generate more blood but not one drop of this blood landed on the carpet, the walls or soaked through to the mattress? There were no scratches on the bed posts where she was supposedly chained and tied and Brendan gave different accounts depending on what the officers 'suggested'. In March he said she was stabbed in the bedroom but there was no trace of blood in the bedroom so in a later interview, Fassbender et al get him to change this to her being stabbed in the garage. Which means she was both stabbed and shot - which makes no sense in itself. He is simply changing his story to accommodate. For instance Brendan didn't provide the idea that Avery lifted the hood on Teresa's car, Fassbender did;

"FASSBENDER: Go ba, I wanna back ya just a bit, you’re down at the car, and you’re
hiding the car, right? (Brendan nods “yes”) Do you recall him taking the plates off?

BRENDAN: Yeah.

FASSBENDER: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin’ else, you need to tell us what he
did, after that car is parked there. It’s extremely important, (pause) Before you guys leave that
car.

BRENDAN: That he left the gun in the car.

FASSBENDER: That’s not what I’m thinkin’ about. He did something to that car. He took
the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).

BRENDAN: I don’t know.

FASSBENDER: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood
at all or anything like that? To do something to that car?


BRENDAN: Yeah."


The DNA results of the hood latch were reported on May 8th 2006. Several month after Brendan told them. So they either planted his DNA at the lab to corroborate Brendans account or Brendan was being truthfull. I know what I think.


You also have the Brendan describing her being shot to the left of the head. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.

Brendan describes Steve moving the bones from the barrell to the burn pit. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.


Then you have Brendan telling them she was shot with Avery's .22 in the Garage before they discovered the bullet with DNA on.

Then you have Brendan telling them he cleaned up with bleach before they found out the clothes he was wearing that night had bleach on them.


Brendan knows too much long before the investigators did. If certain things don't make sense then maybe that's because Brendan already admits "some of it" is true and not all.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 06:18:PM

Because Brendans finger is not bleeding!

so they have cute somomes throat raped them stabed them moved there body then destroyed there body then moved there bones and the only dna evdence is a cut finger.

how come her dna isnt on brendan. how come hr dna is not found in the trailer.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 28, 2018, 06:24:PM

The DNA results of the hood latch were reported on May 8th 2006. Several month after Brendan told them. So they either planted his DNA at the lab to corroborate Brendans account or Brendan was being truthfull. I know what I think.


You also have the Brendan describing her being shot to the left of the head. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.

Brendan describes Steve moving the bones from the barrell to the burn pit. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.


Then you have Brendan telling them she was shot with Avery's .22 in the Garage before they discovered the bullet with DNA on.

Then you have Brendan telling them he cleaned up with bleach before they found out the clothes he was wearing that night had bleach on them.


Brendan knows too much long before the investigators did. If certain things don't make sense then maybe that's because Brendan already admits "some of it" is true and not all.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."


But Brendan didn't tell them about the hood - Fassbender introduced it. I found that within a  few seconds of reading his transcript. I'm sure I'll find many more.

They had access to Avery's property, how hard do you imagine it is to plant his DNA under the hood? They had no reason to mention it and yet it was THEY who introduced it and then low and behold - DNA is found.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 06:31:PM
so they have cute somomes throat raped them stabed them moved there body then destroyed there body then moved there bones and the only dna evdence is a cut finger.

how come her dna isnt on brendan. how come hr dna is not found in the trailer.

Like Brendan says. Only "some of it" is what he actually done to her. So I will let you work out what is true and what is not. 

The fact of the matter is Brendan gives away too many facts unknown to the police at the time. Enough to establish him as at the very least a accessory/witness to her murder. Finding a few inconsistencies here and there is not going to change that.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 06:56:PM
Like Brendan says. Only "some of it" is what he actually done to her. So I will let you work out what is true and what is not. 

The fact of the matter is Brendan gives away too many facts unknown to the police at the time. Enough to establish him as at the very least a accessory/witness to her murder. Finding a few inconsistencies here and there is not going to change that.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it.


only the police know what was and wasnt unknown yo them.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 07:27:PM
only the police know what was and wasnt unknown yo them.


No. Anyone that can read the date on a lab report or the date on a trial transcript can know what and wasn't known to them.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 08:02:PM
Like Brendan says. Only "some of it" is what he actually done to her. So I will let you work out what is true and what is not. 

The fact of the matter is Brendan gives away too many facts unknown to the police at the time. Enough to establish him as at the very least a accessory/witness to her murder. Finding a few inconsistencies here and there is not going to change that.


Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it.



in that transcript hes noting about the crime just steve did it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 28, 2018, 08:32:PM

No I am not. The target audience for this show is people who don't know anything about the case.

I have looked at all the facts and know the man is guilty as charged. You will have to pay me to sit through a second series of that dishonest and emotionally manipulative show.

PS: Tell me how you are supposed to get evidence of rape from a rape victim that is nothing but bones and ashes. How on earth do you do that?

That’s complete bollocks. The target audience are well read on this case. Zellner is a renound lawyer who has freed/exonerated 20 men and women. Some on fabricated evidence. I think her experience and theory is well worth listening to, at least then you could give a reasoned response.  There is absolutely no evidence of rape, and never will be. her bones were found in 3/4 different locoations and still only 30% of them have been  found. Quite a lot were found on manitowoc land miles from the salvage yard. Phone pings put Teresa miles from the yard . It’s impossible to burn a body in an open pit in 4 hours. The dogs traced her to the manitowoc land. Etc etc etc

Zellner is testing the evidence, this is what both the prosecution and defence do . And she has challenged anyone in the world to replicate the evidence the way the prosecution have told it. The blood on the door of the rav is going in a motion that completely disputes the prosecutions story.

To be honest david it’s pointless trying to discuss this with you as you haven’t watched series 2 so really your opinion is based on trial evidence only which is worthless in this debate.

One other thing worth mentioning is the prison justice system in America is a business worth billions of pounds. It pays to keep people locked up. Corruption is rife. You might be of the opinion that the evidence speaks for itself but if you know a little about the American justice system you would understand that’s it is by no means too far fetched to have this planted.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 28, 2018, 09:55:PM
That’s complete bollocks. The target audience are well read on this case. Zellner is a renound lawyer who has freed/exonerated 20 men and women. Some on fabricated evidence. I think her experience and theory is well worth listening to, at least then you could give a reasoned response.  There is absolutely no evidence of rape, and never will be. her bones were found in 3/4 different locoations and still only 30% of them have been  found. Quite a lot were found on manitowoc land miles from the salvage yard. Phone pings put Teresa miles from the yard . It’s impossible to burn a body in an open pit in 4 hours. The dogs traced her to the manitowoc land. Etc etc etc


Wrong.


"Remember the later evidence, as to the
amount of time that's necessary to destroy, or to
cremate a body. This is going to come later,
from some experts in the testimony, or at least
when we talk about that later. But at or about
1600 degrees, which actually was the defense
expert, Mr. Fairgrieve, when talking about BTUs
 and 300,000 BTUs per average tire.
That's the amount of heat that's thrown
off by a tire. Plenty of fuel, plenty of solid
fuel to burn, or incinerate, or cremate a human
body, that that would take between an hour and a
half and two and a half hours, at that 1600
degree level. If it starts at, the very latest,
7:30 or 7:45, and it's still going at 11:00,
that's plenty of time."


There is no evidence of a rape because the rape victim was incinerated by those who wanted to cover it up.

Brendan told us about the rape. The police at the time were not after a rape confession nor did they even consider a rape part of the investigation until Brendan himself brought it up. Its was not fed nor coerced.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 10:09:PM
That’s complete bollocks. The target audience are well read on this case. Zellner is a renound lawyer who has freed/exonerated 20 men and women. Some on fabricated evidence. I think her experience and theory is well worth listening to, at least then you could give a reasoned response.  There is absolutely no evidence of rape, and never will be. her bones were found in 3/4 different locoations and still only 30% of them have been  found. Quite a lot were found on manitowoc land miles from the salvage yard. Phone pings put Teresa miles from the yard . It’s impossible to burn a body in an open pit in 4 hours. The dogs traced her to the manitowoc land. Etc etc etc

Zellner is testing the evidence, this is what both the prosecution and defence do . And she has challenged anyone in the world to replicate the evidence the way the prosecution have told it. The blood on the door of the rav is going in a motion that completely disputes the prosecutions story.

To be honest david it’s pointless trying to discuss this with you as you haven’t watched series 2 so really your opinion is based on trial evidence only which is worthless in this debate.

One other thing worth mentioning is the prison justice system in America is a business worth billions of pounds. It pays to keep people locked up. Corruption is rife. You might be of the opinion that the evidence speaks for itself but if you know a little about the American justice system you would understand that’s it is by no means too far fetched to have this planted.

4 diffrent locations rather strange.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 28, 2018, 11:20:PM
and his vlood is ingnition but not on the key have i gt that right.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 12:11:AM
and his vlood is ingnition but not on the key have i gt that right.

Near the ignition but not on the key.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 12:13:AM
But Brendan didn't tell them about the hood - Fassbender introduced it. I found that within a  few seconds of reading his transcript. I'm sure I'll find many more.

They had access to Avery's property, how hard do you imagine it is to plant his DNA under the hood? They had no reason to mention it and yet it was THEY who introduced it and then low and behold - DNA is found.

What? No reply David?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 29, 2018, 12:06:PM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/making-a-murderer-part-2-attorney-kathleen-zellner-on-the-murder-theory-that-could-free-steven-avery
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 12:30:PM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/making-a-murderer-part-2-attorney-kathleen-zellner-on-the-murder-theory-that-could-free-steven-avery

Thanks for that - great article.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 01:03:PM
What? No reply David?


Like I already explained. Brendan was either being honest or they took the 2003 Saliva swab from the Sheriffs office to plant Avery's DNA there.  ::)

Then you have all the other bits of info to explain.

Brendan Dassey tells the investigators that Steven shot TH with his .22 in the garage. Investigators later find a .22 bullet from Stevens rifle with her DNA on it in the garage.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that Steven had moved the burned bones from the burn barrell to the burn pit. Later at Stevens trial the experts confirm that some of the bones had been moved to the burn pit.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that he cleaned up the the spot where TH was shot with bleach. Investigators later find bleach stains on the clothes he was wearing that night.


You also have the Brendan describing her being shot to the left of the head. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 01:16:PM
and his vlood is ingnition but not on the key have i gt that right.

And his blood is also in his car. The same type of blood stains also. Avery admits driving this car around the same time and does not claim this blood was planted!


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 01:34:PM

Like I already explained. Brendan was either being honest or they took the 2003 Saliva swab from the Sheriffs office to plant Avery's DNA there.  ::)

Then you have all the other bits of info to explain.

Brendan Dassey tells the investigators that Steven shot TH with his .22 in the garage. Investigators later find a .22 bullet from Stevens rifle with her DNA on it in the garage.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that Steven had moved the burned bones from the burn barrell to the burn pit. Later at Stevens trial the experts confirm that some of the bones had been moved to the burn pit.


Brendan Dassey tells investigators that he cleaned up the the spot where TH was shot with bleach. Investigators later find bleach stains on the clothes he was wearing that night.


You also have the Brendan describing her being shot to the left of the head. The forensic anthropologist later confirmed this is what happened.

How was HE being honest when the subject of the hood didn't come from him (which you previously claimed)? They didn't need a saliva sample - his DNA would have been all over his unwashed clothes etc. The prosecutor called the DAN 'sweat' DNA - there is no such thing

The hood was one example - I haven't finished yet!

These two might be guilty as sin or even just Avery BUT there is something wrong with the evidence - especially the interrogation of Dassey. There are also other suspects, interesting that Kellner also thinks Bobby Dassey is top of the list!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 29, 2018, 01:40:PM
And his blood is also in his car. The same type of blood stains also. Avery admits driving this car around the same time and does not claim this blood was planted!

so he moves her car he has a cut finger now h does he start the ignition erm wit the key so there should be blood on the key.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 02:09:PM
so he moves her car he has a cut finger now h does he start the ignition erm wit the key so there should be blood on the key.


What do you mean so? Look at the blood in Stevens Pontiac. He admits the blood in there if from his cut.


Now look at the blood in Teresa's Toyota. Same type of blood stains and similar quantities. This is Steven Averys blood.


This proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Steven Avery has driven both vehicles around the same time.


You saying there should be more blood in more places does not work. Its a false premise that you are making up that he would have a stream of blood pouring from his finger at all times. We know from Stevens Pontiac that this is not the case.

I dont mean to be rude but the arguments for this guy is getting seriously stupid now. Use your common sense!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 02:53:PM
Having spoken to someone who has watched the 2nd series. It apparently makes no mention of the blood in Steven Avery's Pontiac.

This show is so unethical it makes my blood boil.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

"MR. KRATZ: Just briefly, Judge. Those Items were, in fact as soon as both of them were inspected, one of them, the blue pontiac was processed, and the items therein tested by the Wisconsin State crime Laboratory, and a DNA profile was developed from within, the fact that Steven Avery's blood is near the console of that vehicle, as well as in Ms Halbach's vehicle, the State intends to include in evidence in this case. Especially, if the defense intends to pursue their "planting of Mr. Avery's blood, evidence."
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 02:55:PM

What do you mean so? Look at the blood in Stevens Pontiac. He admits the blood in there if from his cut.


Now look at the blood in Teresa's Toyota. Same type of blood stains and similar quantities. This is Steven Averys blood.


This proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Steven Avery has driven both vehicles around the same time.


You saying there should be more blood in more places does not work. Its a false premise that you are making up that he would have a stream of blood pouring from his finger at all times. We know from Stevens Pontiac that this is not the case.

I dont mean to be rude but the arguments for this guy is getting seriously stupid now. Use your common sense!

Yes, please do look at the blood in SA Pontiac, it's on the gear stick, where you would expect to find it.

You do mean to be rude and your comment is a pathetic attempt at reverse psychology. However, you're the one having trouble answering WHY the police would introduce the hood of the RAV4 to Brendan - they did the same with the gun .....
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 02:57:PM
Having spoken to someone who has watched the 2nd series. It apparently makes no mention of the blood in Steven Avery's Pontiac.

This show is so unethical it makes my blood boil.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

"MR. KRATZ: Just briefly, Judge. Those Items were, in fact as soon as both of them were inspected, one of them, the blue pontiac was processed, and the items therein tested by the Wisconsin State crime Laboratory, and a DNA profile was developed from within, the fact that Steven Avery's blood is near the console of that vehicle, as well as in Ms Halbach's vehicle, the State intends to include in evidence in this case. Especially, if the defense intends to pursue their "planting of Mr. Avery's blood, evidence."

Of course his blood will be in his own car and the comment above is misleading. It is trying to stated that blood was found in a similar area to that found in the RAV4 - that is NOT the case, it was found on the GEAR STICK!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 03:37:PM
This is how reliable BD's accounts were - we know Avery had the cut prior to the disappearence of Teresa however .....

WIEGERT Did you notice any marks on Steven at all?
BRENDAN On his arm.
WIEGERT Where on his arm?
BRENDAN Like right here.
WIEGERT Do you remember which arm?
BRENDAN His left.
WIEGERT His left arm? OK. I’m sorry. I’m gonna keep tellin’ you to speak up a How did he get that mark?
BRENDAN Well, he said that he got it from workin’ out by the yard, that he cut OK.
WIEGERT Did he tell you anything else about that mark?
BRENDAN No.
WIEGERT Did he tell you that at any time that he had been injured when he had killed Teresa?
BRENDAN N-no. That he got a scratch, I think.
WIEGERT Where was that scratch?
BRENDAN Like on his finger
WIEGERT OK. How did he say he got that scratch?
BRENDAN That from a fingernail or somethin’.
WIEGERT: Did he tell you that?
BRENDAN: Yeah.
WIEGERT: So tell me again exactly what he told you.
BRENDAN: That he got it from someone scratched, someone scratchin’ um.
WIEGERT: Did he tell you who? Scratched him?
BRENDAN: Teresa.
WIEGERT: How did that come about? I mean did he say was there a struggle or something? Or what did he say?
BRENDAN: Yeah, there was a struggle.

WIEGERT: Tell me about that. What did he tell you?
BRENDAN: When he was trying to tie her up, she tried to get out and scratched ‘em tryin* to get away from ‘em and she couldn’t so he tied her up and stabbed her.
WIEGERT: Did he say anything about that? Did he say if she was yelling or screaming or anything? Did he say
BRENDAN: No.
WIEGERT: So, he actually showed you the finger?
BRENDAN: Yeah.
WIEGERT: And which finger was it?
BRENDAN: The pointer finger.
WIEGERT: Did you see anything on that finger?
BRENDAN: Yeah, a scratch.

It's also easy to see how BD is open to suggestion, something picked up on during his psychological examination.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 29, 2018, 04:01:PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/making-a-murderer-who-killed-teresa-halbach-theories-2015-12?fbclid=IwAR2XnOj1XzGJsvwha-rSJnisetQBjyfcar9-m5P_gpNF3eEJoez1txpSwGA

the bit about deleted tezt is intresting.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 04:05:PM
Of course his blood will be in his own car and the comment above is misleading. It is trying to stated that blood was found in a similar area to that found in the RAV4 - that is NOT the case, it was found on the GEAR STICK!

Most blood found on the console area near to the gear stick - where you would expect to find it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 04:50:PM
Yes, please do look at the blood in SA Pontiac, it's on the gear stick, where you would expect to find it.


There was blood in four places in SAs pontiac. The rear seat, The top of the console, The gear stick and by the gear numbers.

You do mean to be rude and your comment is a pathetic attempt at reverse psychology.

Put your projector away. We had enough of it yesterday.


However, you're the one having trouble answering WHY the police would introduce the hood of the RAV4 to Brendan - they did the same with the gun .....

Brendan brought up the calibre of murder weapon and the exact murder weapon. Not the police. Police saying "did he use a gun" does not feed Brendan enough incriminating information that he ends up giving them.

The authorities did not get the results of the Hood Latch DNA until two months after they had this conversation with Brendan. BUT what they probably did know was the fact the battery cables were pulled out from battery. Hence the killer must have opened the hood. Which is probably why they brought it up. Which would explain why Brendan then confirms his uncle did lift the hood since his uncle is the killer and the DNA later confirms Brendan was being truthfull.


I have already admitted the 1st series fooled me. I accept that. So I am not going to hold it against you if you do the same.  :)


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 05:25:PM
https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/29/ken-kratz-making-murderer-part-2-filled-bias-personal-attacks/1760031002/ (https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/29/ken-kratz-making-murderer-part-2-filled-bias-personal-attacks/1760031002/)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 29, 2018, 06:32:PM
https://whbl.com/news/articles/2016/sep/03/more-legal-briefs-filed-in-avery-case/?fbclid=IwAR3FQT5u7uxF2oDZJOZB6zFC-ympwY_0xRWMZBVi-BSwvnJegIDn6Nwpxpo#.W9dRlVcKTZ0.facebook
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 08:04:PM

There was blood in four places in SAs pontiac. The rear seat, The top of the console, The gear stick and by the gear numbers.

Put your projector away. We had enough of it yesterday. PATHETIC!


Brendan brought up the calibre of murder weapon and the exact murder weapon. Not the police. Police saying "did he use a gun" does not feed Brendan enough incriminating information that he ends up giving them.

The authorities did not get the results of the Hood Latch DNA until two months after they had this conversation with Brendan. BUT what they probably did know was the fact the battery cables were pulled out from battery. Hence the killer must have opened the hood. Which is probably why they brought it up. Which would explain why Brendan then confirms his uncle did lift the hood since his uncle is the killer and the DNA later confirms Brendan was being truthfull.


I have already admitted the 1st series fooled me. I accept that. So I am not going to hold it against you if you do the same.  :)

Yes, all around the console next to the gear stick - which shows (unlike what you suggested) blood drips and doesn't stay on top if that's where the cut is!  ::)

Brendan would have known that Steven has a 22 they were a hunting family for gods sake! However he didn't mention her being shot until the police did. They tried to coax him by asking what happened to her head - he says all sorts until THEY finally TELL HIM she was shot!

You're easily fooled David because you rely on what others have said and you soak up their ideas. I suspect Scipio has some influence over your current position. You don't have to have an opinion on guilt or innocence to see that evidence is flawed.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 09:58:PM
So, the police tell Brendan that Teresa was shot. Then steer him into saying she was shot in the garage and  NOT outside as he initially states. The whole thing is just unbelievable - that they were allowed to get away with these interviews and present them to ANY court is a joke!

Even crazier, the day after the interview below, the prosecution made s statement to say that 'after; receiving information they were going to research the Avery residence - they told him what they wanted to hear - that's when they SAY they found the bullet ......... but that's another story!


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 10:36:PM
The following affidavit is self explanatory

AFFIDAVIT OF LUCIEN C. HAAG
Now comes your affiant, Lucien C. "Luke" Haag, and under oath hereby states as follows:

I. I am of legal majority and can truthfully and competently testify to the matters
contained herein based upon my personal knowledge. The factual statements herein are true and
correct to the best of my knowledge, information, and belief. I am of sound mind and I am not
taking any medication nor have I ingested any alcohol that would impair my memory of the facts
stated in this affidavit.

2. I am an independent forensic consultant with my own company, Forensic Science
Services, Inc., in Carefree, Arizona. I have consulted as an expert and testified as an expert
witness on the subject of firearms identification, firearms-related evidence, and the
reconstructive aspects of shooting incidents in numerous cases across the United States and in
other countries. l have also authored and presented more than 200 scientific papers, most of
which address various exterior and terminal ballistic properties and the effects and behavior of
projectiles. A current copy of my curriculum vitae is attached to this declaration as Exhibit A.
EXHIBIT
ll I 92

3. I published an article in the AFTE Journal (Volume 44, Number 2, Spring 2012)
regarding the forensic value of bone particles recovered from bullets. A copy of that article is
attached to this declaration as Exhibit B.

4. I was retained by Kathleen T. Zellner & Associates, P.C., to assist with the postconviction
investigation in the above-captioned case.

5. I was asked to review information and provide consultation and expert opinions
regarding the ballistics evidence in that case.

6. Kathleen T. Zellner & Associates, P.C., provided me with documents relevant to
the case, including transcripts of testimony, computer generated images, and photographs.

7. Based on the information I have reviewed, and past testing which I have carried
out, it is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of certainty in the field of forensic ballistics, that the
damaged bullet recovered from Steven Avery's garage and purported to yield a full DNA profile
of Teresa Halbach ("Ms. Halbach") (Wisconsin State Crime Lab Item FL) shows no evidence of
having been shot through Ms. Halbach's skull. The bullet, which was identified as a .22 long
rifle bullet, was comprised of such soft metal that there would be detectable bone fragments
embedded in the damaged bullet if it had been fired through Ms. Halbach' s skull. Because no
bone fragments have been identified in the damaged bullet, Item FL, over the course of its
examination - including DNA and firearms/toolmarks analysis - at the Wisconsin State Crime
Lab, it is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of certainty if the field of ballistics, that Item FL
was not fired through Ms. Halbach's skull.

8. I carried out tests to illustrate that bone fragments would become embedded in .22
long rifle bullets when fired through bone. I fired two (2) copper-plated, lead, CCI Minimag®
.22 long rifle bullets through approximately 2mm thick flat bone and into a soft tissue simulant
from which it was recovered. I fired two (2) additional copper-plated, lead, CCI Minimag® .22
long rifle bullets through one layer of approximately 2mm thick flat bone, then through 5 inches
of soft tissue simulant, and through a final section of approximately 2mm thick flat bone, and
finally into a soft tissue simulant as a means of recovering the bullet. Bone particles, embedded
in the soft lead, were readily visible under a stereo-microscope for both the bullets fired through
one thickness of bone and two thicknesses of bone. A copy of the experimental design of this
demonstration, along with diagrams and photos, is attached to this declaration as Exhibit C.
This demonstration supports my opinion that, to a reasonable degree of certainty in the field of
forensic ballistics, item FL was not fired through Ms. Halbach's skull because there were no
bone particles embedded in it when it was examined by Wisconsin State Crime Lab analysts.

9. William Newhouse ("Mr. Newhouse"), a Wisconsin State Crime Lab firearms
examiner, analyzed the damaged bullet, item FL, using a microscope. According to Mr.
Newhouse's bullet worksheet, attached to this declaration as Exhibit D, Mr. Newhouse
identified no trace evidence on the damaged bullet. If there were bone fragments embedded in
the damaged bullet, I would expect a reasonably competent firearms examiner to have identified
them during their microscopical examination. Based upon my review of Mr. Newhouse's trial
testimony, it is my opinion that Mr. Newhouse is a reasonably competent firearms examiner who
would likely have identified bone fragments embedded in the damaged bullet had they been
present. Because Mr. Newhouse did not note or describe any bone or bone-like particles
embedded in item FL during his microscopical examination of this damaged bullet, it is my
opinion, to a reasonable degree of certainty in the field of forensic ballistics, that item FL was
not fired through Ms. Halbach's skull.

10. A definitive resolution and statement regarding the absence of bone particles in
the item FL damaged bullet would require a detailed examination for such particles under a
suitable optical microscope, or an examination by a qualified operator of a scanning electron
microscope (SEM) equipped with an energy dispersive x-ray analyzer (EDS) who is experienced
in the recognition and identification of bone particles in bullets. It is my understanding that Dr.
Christopher Palenik, PhD, ofMicrotrace, LLC, has conducted an examination of the damaged
bullet. I have been informed by Ms. Zellner that no bone was detected on the bullet, which
confirms my opinions stated above. I also examined the photographs taken by Dr. Palenik of the
damaged bullet and have confirmed that no bone fragments were visible in these photographs.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 29, 2018, 10:48:PM

AFFIDAVIT OF CHRISTOPHER PALENIK, PhD - who tested not only those bullets fired by Hagg but the actual FL bullet from the Avery case.


I. Scientific Findings - Bullet #FL
Background and Approach

8. The purpose of this examination was to determine if evidence of bone could be detected
on the surface of bullet #FL.

9. The following analytical approach was utilized:
a. Perform the first in depth photo-documentation and microscopical examination of
the #FL bullet. This was conducted by a combination of stereomicroscopy and
digital video microscopy, the latter of which was used to produce a map of the
bullet surface and the debris adhering to it. The microscopes used were
manufactured in 2016.
b. Characterization of the bullet by scaiming electron microscopy and energy
dispersive x-ray spectroscopy (SEM/EDS). Using the digital images of the bullet
surface as a guide, specific areas were examined in detail and analyzed to
determine their elemental composition. The inorganic portion of bone is
composed almost entirely of calcium, phosphorous and oxygen, all of which are
detectable by this approach. The SEM/EDS equipment used was produced in
2016.

Exemplar Bullet Examination - Proof of Concept

10. In preparation for this examination, four exemplar bullets, fired through bone by L. Haag,
were examined at our laboratory.
a. The exemplar bullets were initially examined and photo-documented by a
combination of stereomicroscopy and digital video microscopy to assess the
overall condition of the bullet. This initial examination showed the presence of
white, translucent particles, consistent with the appearance of bone, on the surface
of or embedded in each of the four exemplai· bullets.
b. After the initial examination and documentation, the bullets were individually
packaged and submitted to Independent Forensics for DNA extraction, to simulate
the process to which the #FL bullet had been subjected. Independent Forensics
Laboratory Supervisor Liz Kopitke placed each of the damaged bullets in separate
test tubes and submerged them in buffer fluid. Ms. Kopitke then shook the test
tubes in her hand.
c. The post-extraction exemplar bullets were again examined and photo-documented
by a combination of stereomicroscopy and digital video microscopy. This
examination showed that white, translucent particles, morphologically consistent
3
with bone, remained on and embedded in each of the four exemplar bullets. That
is, the DNA extraction conducted by Independent Forensics, which was meant to
simulate the the extraction process #FL was subjected to, did not cause the white,
translucent particles consistent with bone to fall or become dislodged from the
exemplar bullet
d. SEM/EDS analysis of debris on two of the exemplar bul_lets showed, as expected,
the co-occurrence of calcium, phosphorous and oxygen in areas identified by
digital video microscopy as containing white, translucent particles that appeared
to be fragments of bone.

11. This study of exemplar bullets demonstrates the following:
a. Particles consistent with bone were detected on each of the four exemplar bullets
that were studied.
b. This approach using a combination of stereomicroscopy, digital video microscopy
and scanning electron microscopy was shown to be suitable for the in situ
documentation and identification of bone on a bullet. If indications of bone were
detected by these methods, further analytical approaches could be applied to more
specifically confirm its presence.
c. Particles consistent with bone were detected on the exemplar bullets after they
were subjected to a DNA extraction process meant to simulate the DNA
extraction performed on #FL.
Bullet #FL Analysis

12. On 23 May 2017, a bullet (M05-2467 #FL) was hand canied to Microtrace by Special
Agent Jeff Wisch of the Wisconsin Depai.tment of Justice.

13. The bullet remained in the custody of SA Wisch during the analysis performed at
Microtrace.

14. The bullet was opened, photo-documented, and examined using a combination of
stereomicroscopy and digital video microscopy.
15. This examination revealed that the bullet surface was covered in debris exhibiting the
following characteristics:
a. A waxy substance covers a significant portion (-40%) of the leading surface of
the bullet. This material may be related to the waxes used by a firearms analysts
to orient and hold bullets during their analysis. Fmther analysis of the waxy
material could clarify this point.
b. Numerous, fine red flakes are on or embedded in the waxy substance.
c. Numerous fibers are observed adhering to the waxy substance. Most of these are
colorless; however, red and black fiber fragments were also noted. Other white
fibers not associated with the waxy surface were observed in association with the
bullet. These fibers could be more specifically identified after isolation and
fmther analysis.
d. Numerous wood fragments are present in, on and/or under the waxy substance.
Further analysis could elucidate their specific relationship to the waxy substance.
Other wood fragments appear to be directly adhering to or embedded in the lead
of the bullet. This later observation suggests that at least some of the wood was
deposited when the energized bullet encountered a wooden object. Some of the
fragments observed are individual particles of wood. One particle appears to be
an agglomeration of woody fragments, possibly originating from a manufactured
wood product such as chip or particle board. Isolation and analysis of these
particles would be required if their specific identity ( e.g. species, type of wood
product) is of interest.
e. A rounded red droplet (-.073 nml) adjacent to a smaller red droplet (-0.005
mm2) is present on one side of the bullet. The identity of this dried liquid is
presently unknown. Based upon its color and the fact that the bullet was
previously extracted for DNA, it seems unlikely that this is blood. The color,
texture, and shape of the deposit suggests that the material may be paint.
Regardless of it identity, the texture of the bullet in the area where the droplets are
observed strongly suggests that the droplet was deposited after the bullet was fired
and came to rest. This material could be identified if subjected to fmther analysis.
f. No particles consistent with bone were detected by an examination using
stereomicroscopy or digital video microscopy.

16. Note that the criteria for classification each material described above is based upon in situ
observations and are not necessarily inclusive of all particle types that may be present. A
more thorough examination would require the physical isolation of the debris for a more
detailed analysis.

17. The sample was examined without any further preparation in a JEOL 71 00FT field
emission scanning electron microscope with a 50 mm2 Oxford SDD EDS detector.
a. The base of the bullet was fixed upon a piece of conductive, double sided, carbon
    tape.
b. An image of the bullet was obtained at 20 kV. The sample was examined by a
   combination of backscatter and secondary electron imaging at magnifications
   ranging from -50x to 2000x.
c. Elemental maps were collected from various areas on the leading surface of the
   bullet that showed surfaces with exposed lead (i.e., away from the waxy deposit).
   The elemental maps were examined for areas with elevated levels of calcium and
   phosphorous. Each area analyzed was rotated toward the EDS detector to
   increase the number ofx-rays detected.
d. No areas with elevated levels of calcium and phosphorous were detected,
   indicating the absence of detectable bone.
e. A few silicon-rich areas were noted, which may suggest the presence of silicate
   compounds (e.g., minerals).
f. No particles consistent with bone were detected by SEM/EDS analysis.

18. Following the analysis, the bullet was repackaged, sealed and retained by SA Wisch.
Conclusions

19. Based upon the our analyses, there is no evidence to indicate that the bullet passed
through bone. In fact, the particulate evidence that is present strongly suggests an
alternate hypothesis, which is that the trajectory of the fired bullet took it into a wooden
object, possibly a manufactured wood product. Furthermore, the presence ofred droplets
deposited on the bullet suggest that the bullet had picked up additional contamination
from its environment at some point after coming to rest (i.e., droplets of potential red
paint or a red liquid).


20. Based upon these findings, it is our understanding that an investigator was sent by the
Zellner Law Office to the Avery garage to review the area for possible sources of the
particulate types described above. It is our understanding that the following possible
sources were identified:
a.    Particle board in the garage with apparent bullet holes.
b.    Red painted surfaces including a ladder in the garage and a red painted ceiling.

21. Each of the above listed materials observed on the bullet could be identified specifically,
if their actual identity, is of importance to the investigation. This may provide ftn1her
constraints or refinement of the hypotheses I have advanced. To facilitate this, specimens
would need to be isolated from the bullet and analyzed individually. Isolation and
analyses could be conducted using only a small portion of the material available. The
potential sources for the particulate matter that were recently collected from the A very
garage could be directly compared to materials on the bullet.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 11:38:PM

19. Based upon the our analyses, there is no evidence to indicate that the bullet passed
through bone. In fact, the particulate evidence that is present strongly suggests an
alternate hypothesis, which is that the trajectory of the fired bullet took it into a wooden
object, possibly a manufactured wood product. Furthermore, the presence ofred droplets
deposited on the bullet suggest that the bullet had picked up additional contamination
from its environment at some point after coming to rest (i.e., droplets of potential red
paint or a red liquid).



It was never argued at Avery's trial that this bullet passed through bone. However we do know she was shot to the left of the head because the forensic anthropologist found bullet traces in parts of her skull consistent with gunshot damage.

Brendan tells the investigators that she was shot multiple times. They find "10 or 11" shell casings at the scene. 

"A Exhibit 225. Again, another .22 long rifle shell
casing found on the, uh, floor in the garage. Tent
number 15.
Q Okay. And, finally, Exhibit 226?
A Be tent number 16, another .22 long rifle shell
casing found on the, uh, floor in the garage.
Q Now, Deputy Kucharski, um, I think we've seen --
is it six photos of shell casings?
A Yes. Six photos.
Q How many .22 long rifle shell casings did you
find that morning?
A Um, 10 or 11 we found.

"

And so, We have 10 or 11 shell casings found. But only one bullet with no traces of bone on. From these facts we can infer that this particular bullet did not come into contact with bone. It passed through a fleshy area of the victim hence exited out her body and into the ground were it was later found. Were as the other bullets remained inside the victims body and melted beyond recognition while in the burn Barrel.

In 2017 Steven Avery decided to claim that people would just fire the .22 into his garage floor for no apparent reason. So this man non only has people shooting into his garage floor but also stealing fresh blood out of his sink? Common sense tells me this is man making things up to try and make his latest defence theory work.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 29, 2018, 11:56:PM
Why did Making a Murderer not mention the blood in Steven Avery's Pontiac? Because it proves guilt.

Why did Making a Murderer not mention the EDTA in the first series? Because it proves guilt.

Why did Making a Murderer only show snippets of Brendan's confession? Because it proves guilt.

Why did Making a Murderer not mention the blood spatter expert from Stevens trial? Because it proves guilt.

Why did Making a Murderer do some crackpot pseudoscientific "Brain Fingerprinting" instead of a polygraph? Because Avery would fail a polygraph.

Why does Making a Murderer resort to personal attacks against Kratz. They have no valid arguments.

Is Making a Murderer the most unethical and manipulative documentary of all time? Probably.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 12:08:AM
7. Based on the information I have reviewed, and past testing which I have carried
out, it is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of certainty in the field of forensic ballistics, that the
damaged bullet recovered from Steven Avery's garage and purported to yield a full DNA profile
of Teresa Halbach ("Ms. Halbach") (Wisconsin State Crime Lab Item FL) shows no evidence of
having been shot through Ms. Halbach's skull. The bullet, which was identified as a .22 long
rifle bullet, was comprised of such soft metal that there would be detectable bone fragments
embedded in the damaged bullet if it had been fired through Ms. Halbach' s skull. Because no
bone fragments have been identified in the damaged bullet, Item FL, over the course of its
examination - including DNA and firearms/toolmarks analysis - at the Wisconsin State Crime
Lab, it is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of certainty if the field of ballistics, that Item FL
was not fired through Ms. Halbach's skull.

Again it was never claimed that this particular bullet found is the one that passed through her skull!


All these experts Zellner has hired have been fed a false premise. Its also become apparent to me that Stuart James was never informed about the blood in Stevens Pontiac!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 12:50:AM
It was never argued at Avery's trial that this bullet passed through bone. However we do know she was shot to the left of the head because the forensic anthropologist found bullet traces in parts of her skull consistent with gunshot damage.

Brendan tells the investigators that she was shot multiple times. They find "10 or 11" shell casings at the scene. 

"A Exhibit 225. Again, another .22 long rifle shell
casing found on the, uh, floor in the garage. Tent
number 15.
Q Okay. And, finally, Exhibit 226?
A Be tent number 16, another .22 long rifle shell
casing found on the, uh, floor in the garage.
Q Now, Deputy Kucharski, um, I think we've seen --
is it six photos of shell casings?
A Yes. Six photos.
Q How many .22 long rifle shell casings did you
find that morning?
A Um, 10 or 11 we found.

"

And so, We have 10 or 11 shell casings found. But only one bullet with no traces of bone on. From these facts we can infer that this particular bullet did not come into contact with bone. It passed through a fleshy area of the victim hence exited out her body and into the ground were it was later found. Were as the other bullets remained inside the victims body and melted beyond recognition while in the burn Barrel.

In 2017 Steven Avery decided to claim that people would just fire the .22 into his garage floor for no apparent reason. So this man non only has people shooting into his garage floor but also stealing fresh blood out of his sink? Common sense tells me this is man making things up to try and make his latest defence theory work.

You're talking nonsense - they found wood splinters in the bullet tip, certainly not consistent with having been shot through soft tissue

d. Numerous wood fragments are present in, on and/or under the waxy substance.
Further analysis could elucidate their specific relationship to the waxy substance.
Other wood fragments appear to be directly adhering to or embedded in the lead
of the bullet. This later observation suggests that at least some of the wood was
deposited when the energized bullet encountered a wooden object. Some of the
fragments observed are individual particles of wood. One particle appears to be
an agglomeration of woody fragments, possibly originating from a manufactured
wood product such as chip or particle board. Isolation and analysis of these
particles would be required if their specific identity ( e.g. species, type of wood
product) is of interest.

20. Based upon these findings, it is our understanding that an investigator was sent by the
Zellner Law Office to the Avery garage to review the area for possible sources of the
particulate types described above. It is our understanding that the following possible
sources were identified:
a.    Particle board in the garage with apparent bullet holes.
b.    Red painted surfaces including a ladder in the garage and a red painted ceiling.

Brendan didn't even mention that she was shot until he was told, then he said she was shot twice, the number of shots changed when it was clear the investigators weren't happy with his answer. Brendan tells the investigators that there are usually casings all over the place so it's consistent with randomly firing to 22.

You talk about Julie being coached on extremely flimsy guesswork but when it's right under your nose, you try it play it down  ::).
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 12:53:AM
Again it was never claimed that this particular bullet found is the one that passed through her skull!


All these experts Zellner has hired have been fed a false premise. Its also become apparent to me that Stuart James was never informed about the blood in Stevens Pontiac!

There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop! It's a random bullet, with traces of wood splinters linked to Teresa by some VERY dodgy interrogation tactics!

It was part of the trial - of course he would have been informed!  ::) You know about it don't you? It's HIGHLY unlikely that YOU would know and he wouldn't. The blood in the Pontiac is in a place you would expect to find it!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 12:58:AM
There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop! It's a random bullet, with traces of wood splinters linked to Teresa by some VERY dodgy interrogation tactics!

It was part of the trial - of course he would have been informed!  ::) You know about it don't you? It's HIGHLY unlikely that YOU would know and he wouldn't. The blood in the Pontiac is in a place you would expect to find it!

Oh and some DNA, just as Avery's DNA was found under the hood - the hood that was also fed to Dassey.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 30, 2018, 06:26:AM
It was also interesting that the hood latch swatch had not a single particle of dirt orgrease a completely sterile swab ! How odd when your swabbing a car that none of that is found.

It’s useless trying to debate with David on this as he has dismissed watching series 2 so is constantly quoting from the trial etc
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 11:30:AM
It was also interesting that the hood latch swatch had not a single particle of dirt orgrease a completely sterile swab ! How odd when your swabbing a car that none of that is found.

It’s useless trying to debate with David on this as he has dismissed watching series 2 so is constantly quoting from the trial etc

I think he's watched it but it's pointless trying to debate with David on anything - he just ignores things he can't answer or acts like they don't exist.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 02:19:PM
Oh and some DNA, just as Avery's DNA was found under the hood - the hood that was also fed to Dassey.


So you arguing the people at the lab took Avery's 2003 buccal swab from the Sheriffs office and planted it on the hood latch to match Dassey's statement.


While the "real killer" took Avery's fresh blood from his sink and planted it in the Rav4.


This is a double frame up where by the real killer plants evidence against Avery and the police/lab staff then plant even more evidence on top of that.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 02:39:PM

So you arguing the people at the lab took Avery's 2003 buccal swab from the Sheriffs office and planted it on the hood latch to match Dassey's statement.


While the "real killer" took Avery's fresh blood from his sink and planted it in the Rav4.


This is a double frame up where by the real killer plants evidence against Avery and the police/lab staff then plant even more evidence on top of that.

Am I? Where did I say that? I haven't actually said I believe Avery is innocent - you've assumed that - I SAID there is something wrong with the evidence, especially the interrogation of Brendan Dassey.

Just so you know, I don't buy the sink theory - where did the blood come from? Who knows but that is also an issue for the Bamber case because it certainly didn't come from Sheila's underwear!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 03:09:PM
There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop!

Teresa's DNA was recovered from the bullet you xxx xxx xxx!

Through a more detailed search of the garage, two bullet fragments were found in Avery's garage. One of those bullet fragments, after going through Teresa Halbach, included Teresa's DNA. And so as a matter, through Mr. Gahn and through his experts, you will learn that Teresa helped you too, that she left behind some evidence for you to consider in this case. Teresa left behind her DNA for you to consider on one of the bullets that's found in the defendant, Mr. Avery's, garage.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 30, 2018, 03:22:PM
the blood could of been planted because the state had smples of it from his appeal for the rape conviction

the box contain the samples had been had unsealed by somebody for know explained reason.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 03:26:PM
the blood could of been planted because the state had smples of it from his appeal for the rape conviction

the box contain the samples had been had unsealed by somebody for know explained reason.

That's already been disproven. The samples the state had was full of EDTA to preserve the blood. There was no EDTA in the blood found in the Rav4.

"And this planting, this vial planting
defense, even from a common sense standpoint, is
absolutely ludicrous.
But what we were able to do, what you
heard, is scientifically exclude that vial of
blood. You heard from Dr. LeBeau, who testified
that this blood is loaded with EDTA and this
blood, and this blood, and this blood, have no
detectable levels of EDTA. And so instead of
calling all of the people with keys and with
codes, and people in the Clerk's Office, and who
might have seen Lieutenant Lenk or Colborn, or
all those kinds of things, instead of doing it
that way, we only had to call one witness, who
scientifically could tell you that there is
absolutely no way that that vial of blood was
used to plant.
In fact, that very question was asked of
Dr. LeBeau, the head of the toxicology section,
or the unit at the FBI. And he said, by a
reasonable degree of scientific certainty, this
vial of blood is excluded, that means it's not
it, it's excluded as the source of those three
bloodstains."

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 03:51:PM
Teresa's DNA was recovered from the bullet you xxx xxx xxx!

Through a more detailed search of the garage, two bullet fragments were found in Avery's garage. One of those bullet fragments, after going through Teresa Halbach, included Teresa's DNA. And so as a matter, through Mr. Gahn and through his experts, you will learn that Teresa helped you too, that she left behind some evidence for you to consider in this case. Teresa left behind her DNA for you to consider on one of the bullets that's found in the defendant, Mr. Avery's, garage.

Ha, ha!!!!  Xxx xxx xxxxxx you xxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx!

DNA can be transferred - xxxxx! Remember June's DNA was found in the Bamber silencer! That particular bullet had wood fragments buried in the lead!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 30, 2018, 04:15:PM
the fact 10 , 11 shell casing were found in the garage is hardly unusual given the property had lots of shell casings , they were regularly firing off guns there ,

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 30, 2018, 04:16:PM
the blood could of been planted because the state had smples of it from his appeal for the rape conviction

the box contain the samples had been had unsealed by somebody for know explained reason.

I think that's more likely than someone going into SA trailer and getting it from his sink.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 04:17:PM
If DNA can be transferred accidentally, it can be transferred deliberately!

https://phys.org/news/2015-10-easy-dna-contaminate-crime-scene.html
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on October 30, 2018, 04:18:PM
Has anyone listened to Dan O'Donnell's pod cast , Rebutting a Murderer? he's done one re MAM1 and 2, what interested me was the fact that in BD's confession he says that they put TH body in the back of her car and drove round to the pond on the neighbouring property but they couldn't dump the body there because it was dry,,,, this would account for the dogs following that lead onto the neighbouring property and also I wonder if there is any way of confirming whether in fact that pond was dry at the time?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 04:21:PM
Just the other day it was being implied that the blood in the Rav4 was planted because the absence of Avery's blood on the Rav4 steering wheel.

no matter how you play it down, if you cut your finger the blood flows from it it's doesn't just stay in the area of the cut so there would be blood at least on the steering wheel and the keys.

 ::)

But thanks to Steven Avery himself driving his Pontiac with the same cut. Steven has given us a ready made exhibit of him driving a car around the same time with the exact same cut. And Lo and Behold no blood was on the steering wheel just like when he drove his victims Rav4.  ;D

This is a prime example of how the show fools people by leaving important evidence out. 

PS: Steven Avery was also kind enough to leave his pontiacs interior in an utterly filthy condition so there can be no arguments about him cleaning his blood up either. Well done Steven Avery!

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 04:22:PM
I think that's more likely than someone going into SA trailer and getting it from his sink.

The sample did contain EDTA so it couldn't have come from that. I agree that the blood is a problem but just because we don't know how it was transferred (other than from Avery himself), doesn't mean it wasn't.  For those who don't buy the Bamber silencer aspect, we're left with explaining how Sheila's blood ended up inside the silencer.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 04:25:PM
Just the other day it was being implied that the blood in the Rav4 was planted because the absence of Avery's blood on the Rav4 steering wheel.

 ::)

But thanks the Steven Avery himself driving his Pontiac with the same cut. Steven has given us a ready made exhibit of him driving a car around the same time with the exact same cut. And Lo and Behold no blood was on the steering wheel just like when he drove his victims Rav4.  ;D

This is a prime example of how the show fools people by leaving important evidence out. 

PS: Steven Avery was also kind enough to leave his pontiacs interior in an utterly filthy condition so there can be no arguments about him cleaning his blood up either. Well done Steven Avery!

Was there blood on the RAV4 gear stick? Was there blood next to the ignition on the Pontiac? Was Teresa's DNA on her OWN keys?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 05:00:PM
Ha, ha!!!!  Xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx

DNA can be transferred - IDIOT! Remember June's DNA was found in the Bamber silencer! That particular bullet had wood fragments buried in the lead!


That silencer was never handled in the scientifically rigorous fashion that this bullet was. A lot has changed from 1985 to 2005. Furthermore Junes DNA was discovered via the Low Copy Number (LCN) profiling technique. They don't use this technology in the United States. Not an apt comparison.

The only sources of DNA that the lab had to transfer was Teresa's bones and her blood from the Rav4. Absence of bones on the bullet would rule out the bones being the source IMO. So that leaves the rav4 blood that was collected and processed four month before with a seperate chain of custody. No room for accidental transfer in this senario.

As for a conspiracy. Ironically the state scientists involved here are the same people that exhonerated Avery from the rape case just two years before. So if they are so corrupt and want to frame him to prevent him getting a compensation payout, why on earth did they honestly exonerate him in the first place?  ???
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 05:16:PM
I think that's more likely than someone going into SA trailer and getting it from his sink.

Exactly. And this "more likely" scenario has already been proved to be impossible. ;D

This why the show is grasping a straws with the ludicrous sink theory.

 

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9730.0;attach=54269)

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9730.0;attach=54271)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 07:22:PM

That silencer was never handled in the scientifically rigorous fashion that this bullet was. A lot has changed from 1985 to 2005. Furthermore Junes DNA was discovered via the Low Copy Number (LCN) profiling technique. They don't use this technology in the United States. Not an apt comparison.

The only sources of DNA that the lab had to transfer was Teresa's bones and her blood from the Rav4. Absence of bones on the bullet would rule out the bones being the source IMO. So that leaves the rav4 blood that was collected and processed four month before with a seperate chain of custody. No room for accidental transfer in this senario.

As for a conspiracy. Ironically the state scientists involved here are the same people that exhonerated Avery from the rape case just two years before. So if they are so corrupt and want to frame him to prevent him getting a compensation payout, why on earth did they honestly exonerate him in the first place?  ???

We don't know how the bullet was handled - where did the wood splinters come from?

They have to have another source of DNA to match to the blood and bone fragments - ever heard of touch DNA?

Who said the scientists were part of any conspiracy?

This thread was never supposed to be about guilt or innocence but once again, in you come with your over blown sense of self, miss the whole point and ruin a perfectly good debate.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 30, 2018, 07:37:PM
http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/search/label/Blood%20DNA%20Fabricated
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 30, 2018, 07:54:PM
The most common way for forensic evidence to be planted is by re-labeling the forensic swabs." - Dr. Karl Reich, PhD
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 30, 2018, 08:35:PM
well if thedefence request to have the retested dna is granted we will know.

because if it wasn't planted the result we be exactly the same.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 09:17:PM
The most common way for forensic evidence to be planted is by re-labeling the forensic swabs." - Dr. Karl Reich, PhD

The testing for DNA on the bullet was flawed because the testers DNA contaminated the experiment.

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/02/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on October 30, 2018, 10:02:PM
The testing for DNA on the bullet was flawed because the testers DNA contaminated the experiment.

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/02/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html
Very interesting , some very good posts on that blog .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 10:26:PM
The test on the bullet can never be repeated because all of the DNA was used. Found out where the Teresa's DNA was matched from - it was from a PAP test (cervical smear test).
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 10:29:PM
The testing for DNA on the bullet was flawed because the testers DNA contaminated the experiment.

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/02/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html


No it wasn't. That person got their DNA on a negative control sample. It does not change the FACT that Teresa's DNA was the only DNA found on the bullet. This was covered at Avery's trial.

"In this particular case, there was a
trace amount of -- a trace amount of DNA showed
up in the quantitation portion where I had to
quantitate and find out how much DNA I had.
There was a trace amount of DNA in the negative
control. I took the profile to completion and I
developed the profile on it. And the profile in
the negative control turned out to be consistent
with my own DNA type.
Q. What did that mean?
A. That means that during the extraction procedure I
inadvertently introduced my own DNA into the
negative control.
Q. Did that have any impact on your interpretation
of your results?
A. It did not have any impact as far as the profile
from the evidence sample. It's just the fact
that I introduced my own DNA into the
manipulation control.
Q. Were there any other profiles developed on the
bullet besides Teresa Halbach?
A. No.
Q. Was Teresa Halbach's profile the only profile
that you found on that bullet?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any mixtures?
A. No.
Q. And your profile was found where?
A. In the negative control, which should have had
just reagents in it. It should not have had any
DNA at all in it.
"


I am guessing the 2nd series never mentions the bullet DNA either since only this morning you were under the impression that "There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop!"  ::)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2018, 10:32:PM
The test on the bullet can never be repeated because all of the DNA was used. Found out where the Teresa's DNA was matched from - it was from a PAP test (cervical smear test).

They only planted enough DNA for one test?  ::)

Here is what the defence argued.

"He's suggesting that the Pap
smear, or the DNA from Teresa Halbach, somehow
got out of the sealed envelope that it was in,
the standard, somehow maybe walked across her
desk, somehow it jumped into the vial, or onto
the bullet. And that's the kind of thing that
Mr. Buting wants you to believe. That's
disingenuous, doesn't happen that way.
Mr. Gahn knew that was an important
point and he took time, meticulous time with Ms
Culhane, to explain that process for you. It's
Teresa Halbach's DNA on that bullet because,
unfortunately, it went through her body. Not
because the DNA from her Pap smear or from other
standard that was within the Crime Lab somehow
transmitted itself or made its way onto that
bullet.
"

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 11:50:PM
They only planted enough DNA for one test?  ::)

Here is what the defence argued.

"He's suggesting that the Pap
smear, or the DNA from Teresa Halbach, somehow
got out of the sealed envelope that it was in,
the standard, somehow maybe walked across her
desk, somehow it jumped into the vial, or onto
the bullet. And that's the kind of thing that
Mr. Buting wants you to believe. That's
disingenuous, doesn't happen that way.
Mr. Gahn knew that was an important
point and he took time, meticulous time with Ms
Culhane, to explain that process for you. It's
Teresa Halbach's DNA on that bullet because,
unfortunately, it went through her body. Not
because the DNA from her Pap smear or from other
standard that was within the Crime Lab somehow
transmitted itself or made its way onto that
bullet.
"

Uh huh - what the defense didn't know (and neither did you) was that the bullet also had wooden splinters embedded.

I guess the above appeals to you because it's a childish attempt are sarcasm. I love sarcasm but some people should just leave it alone.  ::)
 

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2018, 11:59:PM

No it wasn't. That person got their DNA on a negative control sample. It does not change the FACT that Teresa's DNA was the only DNA found on the bullet. This was covered at Avery's trial.

"In this particular case, there was a
trace amount of -- a trace amount of DNA showed
up in the quantitation portion where I had to
quantitate and find out how much DNA I had.
There was a trace amount of DNA in the negative
control. I took the profile to completion and I
developed the profile on it. And the profile in
the negative control turned out to be consistent
with my own DNA type.
Q. What did that mean?
A. That means that during the extraction procedure I
inadvertently introduced my own DNA into the
negative control.
Q. Did that have any impact on your interpretation
of your results?
A. It did not have any impact as far as the profile
from the evidence sample. It's just the fact
that I introduced my own DNA into the
manipulation control.
Q. Were there any other profiles developed on the
bullet besides Teresa Halbach?
A. No.
Q. Was Teresa Halbach's profile the only profile
that you found on that bullet?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any mixtures?
A. No.
Q. And your profile was found where?
A. In the negative control, which should have had
just reagents in it. It should not have had any
DNA at all in it.
"


I am guessing the 2nd series never mentions the bullet DNA either since only this morning you were under the impression that "There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop!"  ::)

There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop! It's a random bullet, with traces of wood splinters linked to Teresa by some VERY dodgy interrogation tactics!

It was part of the trial - of course he would have been informed!  ::) You know about it don't you? It's HIGHLY unlikely that YOU would know and he wouldn't. The blood in the Pontiac is in a place you would expect to find it!

Oh and some DNA, just as Avery's DNA was found under the hood - the hood that was also fed to Dassey.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg448209.html#msg448209



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2018, 12:01:AM

No it wasn't. That person got their DNA on a negative control sample. It does not change the FACT that Teresa's DNA was the only DNA found on the bullet. This was covered at Avery's trial.

"In this particular case, there was a
trace amount of -- a trace amount of DNA showed
up in the quantitation portion where I had to
quantitate and find out how much DNA I had.
There was a trace amount of DNA in the negative
control. I took the profile to completion and I
developed the profile on it. And the profile in
the negative control turned out to be consistent
with my own DNA type.
Q. What did that mean?
A. That means that during the extraction procedure I
inadvertently introduced my own DNA into the
negative control.
Q. Did that have any impact on your interpretation
of your results?
A. It did not have any impact as far as the profile
from the evidence sample. It's just the fact
that I introduced my own DNA into the
manipulation control.
Q. Were there any other profiles developed on the
bullet besides Teresa Halbach?
A. No.
Q. Was Teresa Halbach's profile the only profile
that you found on that bullet?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any mixtures?
A. No.
Q. And your profile was found where?
A. In the negative control, which should have had
just reagents in it. It should not have had any
DNA at all in it.
"


I am guessing the 2nd series never mentions the bullet DNA either since only this morning you were under the impression that "There is no evidence that the bullet went though any part of Teresa - full stop!"  ::)

"When these tests are developed, there are controls put into place that ensure the test was run correctly. These controls are usually of a positive and negative variety: the positive control will have a known substance or quantity that will produce a result that falls within a specific range and the negative control will produce no result (a zero, nothing detected, etc.). In order to be able to produce results that can be labeled “scientifically valid,” the test must contain controls. If something comes up in the negative control, it is an invalid test. If the positive control produces a result that is abnormal or out of range, it is an invalid test. An invalid test means, in effect, that there are NO ACTUAL TEST RESULTS. In regards to whatever sample you were testing, in that specific test, there are no results. This prevents reporting of tainted, skewed, and erroneous results."

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/02/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 31, 2018, 01:23:AM
The evidence against Steven Avery seems overwhelming.


The victims bones and ashes are found both in his burn barrel and hidden behind his garage also.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery taking the bones out the burn barrel breaking them with a shovel then hiding them behind his garage. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery shooting her to the left of her head. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

The self confessed accomplice has his jeans covered in bleach. Large amounts of bleach residue was found in Steven Avery's garage.

Also in the same garage a fired bullet was later discovered containin  the same DNA as the victims bones behind Steven Avery's garage.

The bullet with the victims DNA on was proven to have been fired from the rife that is hung up on the wall in Steven Avery's bedroom.

Hidden behind a bookshelf in Steven Averys bedroom was the car keys to the victims car.

The victims car is located on Steven Avery's property right next to his old red Jeep.

Steven Avery while driving his Pontiac got bloodstains on the front console due to a cut on his right finger.

Similar Bloodstains were also found inside the victims car. The DNA is traced back to the same person who spilled his blood in his Pontiac around the same time, - Steven Avery.

The victims car was found to have had the power cables pulled from the car battery. Hence someone involved in the victims death must have opened the car hood at some stage. DNA analysis on the hood latch comes back as a match to non other than..... Steven Avery.

The victims phone records show the last person Teresa spoke to was Steven Avery. Auto-trader staff say that Steven would always call them asking for Teresa and that he would greet her wearing nothing but towel. Yet during the 5 day search for this missing person he makes no effort to try and call her.

While Steven does not bother calling this missing person he has an affection for. Witnesses report his accomplice Brendan Dassey suddently being depressed and crying to himself.

The victim met up with Steven Avery as usual to take photos of a vehicle he wanted to sell in Auto Trader. Yet the vehicle never ended up on the front display like all his other cars with Auto Trader ads did. Bits of the victims camera was later recovered from Steven Averys burn barrel.

So if it somehow isn't Steven Avery then who killed Tereasa? And how did this mountain of smoking gun evidence against Steven Avery come to be?

The only other people on the premisis that could possibly have the opportunity to kill Teresa Halbach are - Chuck Avery, Earl Avery and Bobby Dassey. The defence now want us to believe that either of these three burned Teresa's remains in Stevens Barrel without him noticing. Crushed the bones then planted them behind his garage without him realising. Then just as Steven now happens to remember spilling fresh blood in his sink, either of these three sneek in and extract the wet blood from his sink, then rush it back to the victims car in no later than 15 minutes from when he first spilled the blood in the sink (as it would dry up). Then plant Stevens blood inside so it replicates the blood inside his pontiac. While doing this they also take his toothbrush and scrub it on the hood latch of the victims car and finally plant the victims car key in his bedroom. All without Steven noticing.

Having later heard from his accomplice saying that Steve shot Teresa in the garage with his .22. The police then plant a bullet from that gun in the garage. The lab staff that exonerated Steven Avery from the rape case just two years prior to this, then plant the victims DNA on the bullet. The icing on the cake in a double frame up to prevent him getting his lawsuit payout, which begs the question as to why they honestly exonerated him in the first place.

This is the most half-baked crime theory I have ever heard.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2018, 02:49:PM
The evidence against Steven Avery seems overwhelming.


The victims bones and ashes are found both in his burn barrel and hidden behind his garage also.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery taking the bones out the burn barrel breaking them with a shovel then hiding them behind his garage. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery shooting her to the left of her head. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

The self confessed accomplice has his jeans covered in bleach. Large amounts of bleach residue was found in Steven Avery's garage.

Also in the same garage a fired bullet was later discovered containin  the same DNA as the victims bones behind Steven Avery's garage.

The bullet with the victims DNA on was proven to have been fired from the rife that is hung up on the wall in Steven Avery's bedroom.

Hidden behind a bookshelf in Steven Averys bedroom was the car keys to the victims car.

The victims car is located on Steven Avery's property right next to his old red Jeep.

Steven Avery while driving his Pontiac got bloodstains on the front console due to a cut on his right finger.

Similar Bloodstains were also found inside the victims car. The DNA is traced back to the same person who spilled his blood in his Pontiac around the same time, - Steven Avery.

The victims car was found to have had the power cables pulled from the car battery. Hence someone involved in the victims death must have opened the car hood at some stage. DNA analysis on the hood latch comes back as a match to non other than..... Steven Avery.

The victims phone records show the last person Teresa spoke to was Steven Avery. Auto-trader staff say that Steven would always call them asking for Teresa and that he would greet her wearing nothing but towel. Yet during the 5 day search for this missing person he makes no effort to try and call her.

While Steven does not bother calling this missing person he has an affection for. Witnesses report his accomplice Brendan Dassey suddently being depressed and crying to himself.

The victim met up with Steven Avery as usual to take photos of a vehicle he wanted to sell in Auto Trader. Yet the vehicle never ended up on the front display like all his other cars with Auto Trader ads did. Bits of the victims camera was later recovered from Steven Averys burn barrel.

So if it somehow isn't Steven Avery then who killed Tereasa? And how did this mountain of smoking gun evidence against Steven Avery come to be?

The only other people on the premisis that could possibly have the opportunity to kill Teresa Halbach are - Chuck Avery, Earl Avery and Bobby Dassey. The defence now want us to believe that either of these three burned Teresa's remains in Stevens Barrel without him noticing. Crushed the bones then planted them behind his garage without him realising. Then just as Steven now happens to remember spilling fresh blood in his sink, either of these three sneek in and extract the wet blood from his sink, then rush it back to the victims car in no later than 15 minutes from when he first spilled the blood in the sink (as it would dry up). Then plant Stevens blood inside so it replicates the blood inside his pontiac. While doing this they also take his toothbrush and scrub it on the hood latch of the victims car and finally plant the victims car key in his bedroom. All without Steven noticing.

Having later heard from his accomplice saying that Steve shot Teresa in the garage with his .22. The police then plant a bullet from that gun in the garage. The lab staff that exonerated Steven Avery from the rape case just two years prior to this, then plant the victims DNA on the bullet. The icing on the cake in a double frame up to prevent him getting his lawsuit payout, which begs the question as to why they honestly exonerated him in the first place.

This is the most half-baked crime theory I have ever heard.

I haven't read the above other than your last comment but the most half baked theory on a murder case that I have ever heard (and unlike you, I don't read pretend to be an expert on them all) - is yours on the Bamber case!

Finished with this thread now because there is little point in trying to discuss the ACTUAL topic because it has been hijacked by you and your obsessive need to play the expert.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 31, 2018, 04:44:PM
Steven Avery now claims that his then girlfriend Jodi would randomly shoot the murder weapon into his garage floor.

Slight problems here for Steve.

1) Jodi was in prison at the time of Teresa's murder. (This is why he got the urge to rape Teresa)

2) 10 shell casings were found on his garage floor. So were are the 10 bullet holes and the other 9 bullets on the garage floor?

3) Why is there only one fired bullet with the victims DNA on?


The answer to this is simple. He shot the victim 10 times. The bullet that would later be recovered did not come into contact with the victims bones and passed through her flesh. Resulting in that bullet exiting out the victim to later be recovered for forensic analysis. The other 9 bullets that Jodi is supposed to have shot into floor remained in the body of the murder victims body and melted beyond reconition in Steven Averys burn barrel.


So there you go. His lies are rather easy to work out and he is just shooting himself in the foot here.
People fail to realise how stupid this man this. Many who think this man is innocent cannot fathom a killer leaving the a murder victims bones and the car on their property for all to see.

Facts you need to know about Steven Avery

- He was in the special needs class at school. Has an IQ near 70
- Has commited multiple burglaries.
- Molested his underage Neice
- Been reported many times for domestic violence
- Illegally possessed weapons.
- Deliberatly set a cat on fire.
- He chased someone in his car then threatend them at gun point.
- Would go running out naked on his lawn, masturbating infront of women passing by.


Does this sound like someone stupid enough to go and commit rape and murder while he was soon due several million dollars in compensation from the legal system? Absolutely.

The man is an impulsive, thuggish, self serving and sexually deviant imbecile. He comes across as genuine in his protestations of innocence because all he has to do is act out what he genuinely once done for 18 years prior.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 31, 2018, 05:12:PM
david can you explian the remains beingfound in 4 diffrent locations.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 31, 2018, 05:46:PM
david can you explian the remains beingfound in 4 diffrent locations.


They were found in 2 locations. Burn Barrell and Burn Pit behind the garage.


Brendan already explained that Steven took the obvious bones out the burn barrel, broke them up with a shovel then hid them behind the Garage
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on October 31, 2018, 07:00:PM

They were found in 2 locations. Burn Barrell and Burn Pit behind the garage.


Brendan already explained that Steven took the obvious bones out the burn barrel, broke them up with a shovel then hid them behind the Garage

Umm wrong again David watch season 2 and find out where the bones were found. What happened to the other 70 to 90% of them?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 01, 2018, 02:15:AM
Umm wrong again David watch season 2 and find out where the bones were found.

Watch season two if you want to be brainwashed. If they are saying Teresa's bones were found at the quarry they are misleading the audience once again.

Ken Kratz closing arguments

"These bones in the quarry,
I'm going to take about 20 seconds to talk about,
because the best anybody can say is that they are
possible human. What does possible human mean?
Well, it means we don't know what it is.
All right.
The best anthropologists in the world
don't know what these bones are. Dr. Eisenberg
didn't know what they were. Dr. Fairgrieve
didn't know what they were, he agreed with that.
And you heard a stipulation being read
to you by a person by the name of Les McCurdy.
Stipulation just means an agreement between the
parties, that these bones, we felt it important
enough, were sent out to the FBI. And Les
McCurdy from the FBI determined that these bones
were so degraded, that they were in such a shape
that even through testing, what's called
mitochondrial DNA testing, whether they are human
or not, could not, even by the FBI, be
determined.
So the bones in the quarry are really
not evidence in this case."



What happened to the other 70 to 90% of them?

Again this was covered at his trial.


Q Great. Um, and what -- what we know, then, is
that there are -- there are pieces missing?
A We know there are pieces that are missing. That's
correct.
Q Not recovered?
A Or not there to recover after the burning episode.
Q Exactly. I mean --
A Correct.
Q -- the reasons for not being recovered may be
just complete reduction to ash or something
unrecognizable by fire --
A Correct.



Here I am spoon feeding people facts. While the makers of bullshit show get an Emmy Award for misleading everyone into thinking this lowlife is innocent  >:(
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 01, 2018, 12:36:PM
Watch season two if you want to be brainwashed. If they are saying Teresa's bones were found at the quarry they are misleading the audience once again.

Ken Kratz closing arguments

"These bones in the quarry,
I'm going to take about 20 seconds to talk about,
because the best anybody can say is that they are
possible human. What does possible human mean?
Well, it means we don't know what it is.
All right.
The best anthropologists in the world
don't know what these bones are. Dr. Eisenberg
didn't know what they were. Dr. Fairgrieve
didn't know what they were, he agreed with that.
And you heard a stipulation being read
to you by a person by the name of Les McCurdy.
Stipulation just means an agreement between the
parties, that these bones, we felt it important
enough, were sent out to the FBI. And Les
McCurdy from the FBI determined that these bones
were so degraded, that they were in such a shape
that even through testing, what's called
mitochondrial DNA testing, whether they are human
or not, could not, even by the FBI, be
determined.
So the bones in the quarry are really
not evidence in this case."



Again this was covered at his trial.


Q Great. Um, and what -- what we know, then, is
that there are -- there are pieces missing?
A We know there are pieces that are missing. That's
correct.
Q Not recovered?
A Or not there to recover after the burning episode.
Q Exactly. I mean --
A Correct.
Q -- the reasons for not being recovered may be
just complete reduction to ash or something
unrecognizable by fire --
A Correct.



Here I am spoon feeding people facts. While the makers of bullshit show get an Emmy Award for misleading everyone into thinking this lowlife is innocent  >:(

Who is arguing that he's innocent? You turned it into a question of guilt or innocence because you can't help sticking you awe in! You don't understand the basic concept of the thread!  But now you might realise how I feel about Bamber!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 01, 2018, 04:37:PM
Who is arguing that he's innocent?


Everyone on this topic apart from me. Has been leaning towards or implying (rather than explicitly) that he is.

You turned it into a question of guilt or innocence because you can't help sticking you awe in! You don't understand the basic concept of the thread!

There is no question.

The man is guilty. And I find the show a complete insult to the victim and the victims family. Even Teresa's brother has accused of being "the real killer". Not to mention all the other people having thier names dragged through the dirt.

But now you might realise how I feel about Bamber!

There is nothing similar about the two what so ever.  Their backgrounds, personalities and the nature of thier convictions could not be more further apart.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 01, 2018, 07:50:PM
I really don't think anyone here gives a rats arse what you think.

No one has been arguing for Avery's innocence ....... or guilt for that matter - just YOU! And don't come it with the moral crusade routine. If you have issue with a programme you have never seen, then take it up with the makers and leave those who wish to discuss what the series brought up to do so without you shaking your rattle every five minutes.

Seems to me that your intention was to disrupt the thread because you're a childish, pathetic nowt!

As for Bamber and Avery;

What's background got to do with it? If guilty, they both psychopaths and they're both convicted of cold blooded murder - one wanted sex, the other cash and neither has the bollocks to admit their guilt. Not too different at all
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 01, 2018, 09:43:PM
I really don't think anyone here gives a rats arse what you think.

No one has been arguing for Avery's innocence ....... or guilt for that matter - just YOU! And don't come it with the moral crusade routine. If you have issue with a programme you have never seen, then take it up with the makers and leave those who wish to discuss what the series brought up to do so without you shaking your rattle every five minutes.

Seems to me that your intention was to disrupt the thread because you're a childish, pathetic nowt!

As for Bamber and Avery;

What's background got to do with it? If guilty, they both psychopaths and they're both convicted of cold blooded murder - one wanted sex, the other cash and neither has the bollocks to admit their guilt. Not too different at all


My intention is to explain the facts to the viewers of this show. If it was not for what I have posted here there would be a lot about this case you would not yet have known of. But now that you do know would you at least agree the show is misleading and unethical?

You have to ask yourself why such a lenghly series misses so much important info out. Its not like they didnt have time to include it. Documentaries are supposed to inform. This was made purely to entertain people under a pretence of an innocent man railroaded.

Its not the only documentary series I am critical of. The Curse of Oak Island is another series that does a similar thing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 01, 2018, 10:25:PM

My intention is to explain the facts to the viewers of this show. If it was not for what I have posted here there would be a lot about this case you would not yet have known of. But now that you do know would you at least agree the show is misleading and unethical?

You have to ask yourself why such a lenghly series misses so much important info out. Its not like they didnt have time to include it. Documentaries are supposed to inform. This was made purely to entertain people under a pretence of an innocent man railroaded.

Its not the only documentary series I am critical of. The Curse of Oak Island is another series that does a similar thing.

Seriously? Are you taking the piss? There is NOTHING you posted that I and others didn't know. In fact much of it was mentioned in the second series and there is a website with the full case files - which I am sure you already know. However, there is a LOT that has been posted that you don't know! I think I have repeated several time now that the thread isn't about guilt or innocence or even the first series. However, a discussion here affects nothing - Avery (like Bamber), won't be walking anywhere just because someone has an opinion about him. Your problem is that you believe you have influence and that you know more about everything - you don't.

For anyone interested in the Avery case this is a link to the trial transcripts etc.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/

This is a link to the appeals documents and all the the stuff that Zellner has recently filed.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/appealsdocuments/


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 12:53:AM
Seriously? Are you taking the piss? There is NOTHING you posted that I and others didn't know.


Yes seriously. If you already knew what I have posted here you wouldn't have bothered watching the show in the first place.

Did you know about Brendans admission to Kayla Avery? No.
Did you know about Brendan describing the bones being moved? No.
Did you know about Steven Avery's blood in his own vehicle from his cut finger? No.
Did you know about the victims DNA on the bullet in Steven Avery's Garage? No.



If you want me to take the piss -

How about you write to Steven Avery and ask him if he knew how much money was in Teresa's purse?

Steven Avery DOC# 122987
Waupun Correctional Institution
P.O. Box 351
Waupun WI
53963-0351


If you hear nothing back. Then you will be satisfied the man is indeed guilty as charged.


 ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 01:01:AM
Steven Avery used this conspiracy as his defence from day one because he knew he was caught.


https://streamable.com/eubc3 (https://streamable.com/eubc3)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 02, 2018, 03:11:AM

Yes seriously. If you already knew what I have posted here you wouldn't have bothered watching the show in the first place.

Did you know about Brendans admission to Kayla Avery? No.
Did you know about Brendan describing the bones being moved? No.
Did you know about Steven Avery's blood in his own vehicle from his cut finger? No.
Did you know about the victims DNA on the bullet in Steven Avery's Garage? No.



If you want me to take the piss -

How about you write to Steven Avery and ask him if he knew how much money was in Teresa's purse?

Steven Avery DOC# 122987
Waupun Correctional Institution
P.O. Box 351
Waupun WI
53963-0351


If you hear nothing back. Then you will be satisfied the man is indeed guilty as charged.


 ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

You seem like one of those individuals who is obsessed with serial killers - an odd ball. Every time someone posts something about a killer - you're in like Flynn playing the expert.

Yes, I did know about Kayla, I also know she retracted her statement and said she made it up - did you? I also knew about the blood in the vehicle and the DNA - didn't know about the bones being moved so you have that one me - whoopdee f'ing doo!  The Avery stuff is all over the internet - case documents and a forum called 'Redit' to name just two sources. Did you imagine that you were the only one who could access these things?  ;D ;D ;D ;D, 

I'll tell you something I didn't know, the address of where Avery is but it's just like you to track him down! No point in asking Avery about money in Teresa's purse, he didn't kill for money - you hero Bamber did! Asked him about those buckets yet?  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 02, 2018, 03:16:AM
Steven Avery used this conspiracy as his defence from day one because he knew he was caught.


https://streamable.com/eubc3 (https://streamable.com/eubc3)

Bamber used a fake phone call as an alibi and the excuse that he was outside with the police when the family died. It didn't work for either of them. How's the book coming along?  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 02, 2018, 06:47:AM

Yes seriously. If you already knew what I have posted here you wouldn't have bothered watching the show in the first place.

Did you know about Brendans admission to Kayla Avery? No.
Did you know about Brendan describing the bones being moved? No.
Did you know about Steven Avery's blood in his own vehicle from his cut finger? No.
Did you know about the victims DNA on the bullet in Steven Avery's Garage? No.



If you want me to take the piss -

How about you write to Steven Avery and ask him if he knew how much money was in Teresa's purse?

Steven Avery DOC# 122987
Waupun Correctional Institution
P.O. Box 351
Waupun WI
53963-0351


If you hear nothing back. Then you will be satisfied the man is indeed guilty as charged.


 ::)
 
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
David you must be deluded if you think we didn’t know these things. Kayla is one of his fiercest supporters. All those things you list really are old news. Try catching up on the factual evidence.

One interesting point is the phone pings. Stevens stays at the yard. Bobby and Teresa’s are pinged miless away after her visit

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 02, 2018, 06:49:AM
Watch season two if you want to be brainwashed. If they are saying Teresa's bones were found at the quarry they are misleading the audience once again.

Ken Kratz closing arguments

"These bones in the quarry,
I'm going to take about 20 seconds to talk about,
because the best anybody can say is that they are
possible human. What does possible human mean?
Well, it means we don't know what it is.
All right.
The best anthropologists in the world
don't know what these bones are. Dr. Eisenberg
didn't know what they were. Dr. Fairgrieve
didn't know what they were, he agreed with that.
And you heard a stipulation being read
to you by a person by the name of Les McCurdy.
Stipulation just means an agreement between the
parties, that these bones, we felt it important
enough, were sent out to the FBI. And Les
McCurdy from the FBI determined that these bones
were so degraded, that they were in such a shape
that even through testing, what's called
mitochondrial DNA testing, whether they are human
or not, could not, even by the FBI, be
determined.
So the bones in the quarry are really
not evidence in this case."



Again this was covered at his trial.


Q Great. Um, and what -- what we know, then, is
that there are -- there are pieces missing?
A We know there are pieces that are missing. That's
correct.
Q Not recovered?
A Or not there to recover after the burning episode.
Q Exactly. I mean --
A Correct.
Q -- the reasons for not being recovered may be
just complete reduction to ash or something
unrecognizable by fire --
A Correct.



Here I am spoon feeding people facts. While the makers of bullshit show get an Emmy Award for misleading everyone into thinking this lowlife is innocent  >:(

All refuted by world leading experts. Read the latest documents
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 02, 2018, 06:56:AM
You need to look at both sides. Everything you are saying is based on what the prosecution said and used  at trial. Everything you have said has been refuted or proven wrong. Read the update facts. If your opinion is that the document series is one sided forget seeing it but read the new documents.

If you want to be someone then knows all the facts and can debate them you must do this , otherwise your input is useless.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 02, 2018, 11:43:AM

Yes seriously. If you already knew what I have posted here you wouldn't have bothered watching the show in the first place.

Did you know about Brendans admission to Kayla Avery? No.
Did you know about Brendan describing the bones being moved? No.
Did you know about Steven Avery's blood in his own vehicle from his cut finger? No.
Did you know about the victims DNA on the bullet in Steven Avery's Garage? No.



If you want me to take the piss -

How about you write to Steven Avery and ask him if he knew how much money was in Teresa's purse?

Steven Avery DOC# 122987
Waupun Correctional Institution
P.O. Box 351
Waupun WI
53963-0351


If you hear nothing back. Then you will be satisfied the man is indeed guilty as charged.


 ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

omg! you've written to him haven't you!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 02, 2018, 11:46:AM
Can anyone tell me how many ponds were on the avery property and how many were on the neighbour's land?

The reason I am asking is because in his confession BD said they loaded TH body into her car and drove to a "pond" with the intention of dumping her ( plus car?) in the pond however when they got there the pond was dry ..........any information on this ? because if the pond was dry this is corroboration as far as his confession goes.  Also it may account for why the dogs went on to the neighbours land if they did indeed drive around there to the pond ? has anyone got a link to the map where the dogs went? did they go to a pond?

thanks
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 02, 2018, 11:50:AM
Another thing that bothers me is BD phone call to his mum from prison, the one where he says steven did it , he wasn't being coerced then, and it has the ring of truth about it , his mum responds by he made you do it? and did you do it ? he responds " some of it" ,
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 04:36:PM
Can anyone tell me how many ponds were on the avery property and how many were on the neighbour's land?

The reason I am asking is because in his confession BD said they loaded TH body into her car and drove to a "pond" with the intention of dumping her ( plus car?) in the pond however when they got there the pond was dry ..........any information on this ? because if the pond was dry this is corroboration as far as his confession goes.  Also it may account for why the dogs went on to the neighbours land if they did indeed drive around there to the pond ? has anyone got a link to the map where the dogs went? did they go to a pond?

thanks


Teresa's Rav4 was found hidden opposite the furthest end of the pond embankment.  I have put arrows on a modern google maps image. Yellow arrow = Rav4. Blue Arrow = Pond.


If I understand Brendan correctly. They decided the pond was too shallow. I cant tell you how dried up it was at that time. :-\
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 04:39:PM
omg! you've written to him haven't you!


Pen Pals 4 life we are!  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 04:42:PM
Another thing that bothers me is BD phone call to his mum from prison, the one where he says steven did it , he wasn't being coerced then, and it has the ring of truth about it , his mum responds by he made you do it? and did you do it ? he responds " some of it" ,


Exactly!  :)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 04:47:PM
You need to look at both sides. Everything you are saying is based on what the prosecution said and used  at trial. Everything you have said has been refuted or proven wrong. Read the update facts. If your opinion is that the document series is one sided forget seeing it but read the new documents.

If you want to be someone then knows all the facts and can debate them you must do this , otherwise your input is useless.


I have read them. And none of it would have brought the jury to a different verdict.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 02, 2018, 06:00:PM

Pen Pals 4 life we are!  ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 02, 2018, 06:01:PM

Teresa's Rav4 was found hidden opposite the furthest end of the pond embankment.  I have put arrows on a modern google maps image. Yellow arrow = Rav4. Blue Arrow = Pond.


If I understand Brendan correctly. They decided the pond was too shallow. I cant tell you how dried up it was at that time. :-\

Thanks David, I will try to find out if it was in fact "dried " up .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 02, 2018, 07:41:PM
Thanks David, I will try to find out if it was in fact "dried " up .

Here is a aerial  picture of the pond it's pretty dried up but not sure in comparison to what? This doesn't look like it would ever be deep enough and if it's prone to drying up, why would it ever be a choice in the first place?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 02, 2018, 08:52:PM
This is absolutely unbelievable.

Remember Brendan telling investigators that Jodi called Steven twice from prison while they were cleaning up the crime scene? It just so happens the prison were monitoring those exact calls.

Guess what. Steve tells Jodi the very night Teresa goes missing that Brendan was over to help him do some cleaning.  ::)

The very day after he talks about returning a carpet cleaning machine to walmart  ;D ;D ;D ;D

For the faithfull of Avery's innocence what a coincidence this all must be!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 02, 2018, 10:05:PM
https://twitter.com/Nex20/status/1049818733076713472
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 03, 2018, 04:08:PM
Here is a aerial  picture of the pond it's pretty dried up but not sure in comparison to what? This doesn't look like it would ever be deep enough and if it's prone to drying up, why would it ever be a choice in the first place?

ok so i guess that BD as referring to this pond ? could they have driven onto the neighbour's land to go to his pond? however you're right this photo does seem to suggest it wouldnt have been been a viable place to dump the car , so corroboration for his statement.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 03, 2018, 05:03:PM
ok so i guess that BD as referring to this pond ? could they have driven onto the neighbour's land to go to his pond? however you're right this photo does seem to suggest it wouldnt have been been a viable place to dump the car , so corroboration for his statement.

In a way but  I think Avery would have known it wasn't a viable place to leave a body and certainly not the RAV 4.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 03, 2018, 05:29:PM
ok so i guess that BD as referring to this pond ? could they have driven onto the neighbour's land to go to his pond? however you're right this photo does seem to suggest it wouldnt have been been a viable place to dump the car , so corroboration for his statement.


So the corroboration for Brendan's statement is mounting


- The Pond
- Bones being moved
- The bleach and paint thinner in the garage
- The bleach on his jeans
- Murder weapon was averys .22
- Kayla Avery
- Shot to the left of the head
- Avery opening the hood of the car
- Two phone calls to Jodi
- Coversations of the two phones calls Avery tells Jodi that he has Brendan over helping him "clean up"


If I understand correctly Brendan at his murder trial claimed he was at home alone all night playing playstation 2. This can be proven false by the phone records.

Brendan is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 03, 2018, 06:20:PM

Teresa's Rav4 was found hidden opposite the furthest end of the pond embankment.  I have put arrows on a modern google maps image. Yellow arrow = Rav4. Blue Arrow = Pond.


If I understand Brendan correctly. They decided the pond was too shallow. I cant tell you how dried up it was at that time. :-\

Perhaps you should watch the police flyover video which should answer your question.

You have obvious used a current google map of the yard which doesn’t show the yard as it was then .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 03, 2018, 06:24:PM

So the corroboration for Brendan's statement is mounting


- The Pond
- Bones being moved
- The bleach and paint thinner in the garage
- The bleach on his jeans
- Murder weapon was averys .22
- Kayla Avery
- Shot to the left of the head
- Avery opening the hood of the car
- Two phone calls to Jodi
- Coversations of the two phones calls Avery tells Jodi that he has Brendan over helping him "clean up"


If I understand correctly Brendan at his murder trial claimed he was at home alone all night playing playstation 2. This can be proven false by the phone records.

Brendan is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Brendan dasseys confession was coerced. You want to sound competent in your opinions but you are so out of date it’s laughable.

I used to think you had a real good reasoning to this sort of thing now I just think you are deluded.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 03, 2018, 07:52:PM
Brendan dasseys confession was coerced. You want to sound competent in your opinions but you are so out of date it’s laughable.

I used to think you had a real good reasoning to this sort of thing now I just think you are deluded.


Everything in that list I made is stuff the police didnt and couldnt have given him in the first place. It would be a hell of coincidence if it was coerced.


Why did Brendan tell his mum that Steve was guilty and that he done some of it also? Was she coercing him also?


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 03, 2018, 08:38:PM

Everything in that list I made is stuff the police didnt and couldnt have given him in the first place. It would be a hell of coincidence if it was coerced.


Why did Brendan tell his mum that Steve was guilty and that he done some of it also? Was she coercing him also?

- The Pond - is there evidence to prove that it was ever an intention to use the pond?
- Bones being moved - Which statement is this in?
- The bleach and paint thinner in the garage - You would expect to find these items in a garage.
- The bleach on his jeans - I have bleach on some of my jeans, didn't kill anyone though.
- Murder weapon was averys .22 - It fired the bullet.
- Kayla Avery - Retracted her statement
- Shot to the left of the head - Which statement is this in?
- Avery opening the hood of the car - He was fed that info from the police
- Two phone calls to Jodi - And?
- Coversations of the two phones calls Avery tells Jodi that he has Brendan over helping him "clean up" - He doesn't say that Brendan helped him clean up, he said in one call that HE cleaned up and in a later one that Brendan had helped him, not what he helped him with.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 03, 2018, 09:26:PM
"So we asked Kayla what she meant by
Brendan acting up lately. At that point Kayla
told us that Brendan would just stare into space
and start crying, basically, uncontrollably. She
also told us that Brendan had -- had lost
approximately, what she estimated to be, about 40
pounds."



People should be rallying against Steven Avery for ruining this kids life by dragging him into this terrible situation. But instead they all support Avery and expect Brendan to keep up this façade.


Brendan's uncle made him a murderer.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 03, 2018, 09:42:PM
"So we asked Kayla what she meant by
Brendan acting up lately. At that point Kayla
told us that Brendan would just stare into space
and start crying, basically, uncontrollably. She
also told us that Brendan had -- had lost
approximately, what she estimated to be, about 40
pounds."



People should be rallying against Steven Avery for ruining this kids life by dragging him into this terrible situation. But instead they all support Avery and expect Brendan to keep up this façade.


Brendan's uncle made him a murderer.

I don't think Brendan should be in prison -  that's the point.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 04, 2018, 07:58:AM
Did bobby and Scott lie on the stand? Bobby brother has signed an affidavit confirming that bobby said it couldn’t have been Steven because I saw her leave.

Thousands upon thousands of porn including decapitaded bodies mutilated bodies drowned bodies and child porn on bobby dasssey computer. He denied computer was in his room but police photos confirm it was in his room. Denied looking at these images but forensic and investigators have confirmed only Bobby would have been home. Many of the pictures have uncanny resemblance to Teresa halbach

Brendan was coerced no question. Watch it

Kayla has recounted

Blood spatter doesn’t match prosecution theory as per world renound blood spatter experts

Josh radant has confirmed police tried to make him say fire was bigger than it was

Cannot burn a body in an open fire pit like prosecution theory, would have taken 100 plus gallons to keep fuelling fire etc etc as per world renound expert who has the most expertise in burning bodies in the world, but hey you want to believe Wisconsin

Not a single photo of bones and pit in situ

Coroner was threatened with arrest if she attends. Had to resign 6 months later as she feared for her life

Where are the rest of the bones

There would have been a sludge/ gooleft behind in burn pit, none

The whole investigation centred on Steven with proper investigation into anyone else

It’s bollocks, innocent or guilty he deserves a new trial



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 04, 2018, 12:42:PM
- The Pond - is there evidence to prove that it was ever an intention to use the pond?
- Bones being moved - Which statement is this in?
- The bleach and paint thinner in the garage - You would expect to find these items in a garage.
- The bleach on his jeans - I have bleach on some of my jeans, didn't kill anyone though.
- Murder weapon was averys .22 - It fired the bullet.
- Kayla Avery - Retracted her statement
- Shot to the left of the head - Which statement is this in?
- Avery opening the hood of the car - He was fed that info from the police
- Two phone calls to Jodi - And?
- Coversations of the two phones calls Avery tells Jodi that he has Brendan over helping him "clean up" - He doesn't say that Brendan helped him clean up, he said in one call that HE cleaned up and in a later one that Brendan had helped him, not what he helped him with.

The evidence regarding the pond comes from BD himself.
It fired "the bullet" ,.... it fired the bullet which was recovered from his garage which also had TH DNA on it.
I believe BD says it was the left side of the head. this supports the pathologist findings.
I agree he was fed that information regarding the hood/

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 04, 2018, 12:48:PM
Did bobby and Scott lie on the stand? Bobby brother has signed an affidavit confirming that bobby said it couldn’t have been Steven because I saw her leave.

Thousands upon thousands of porn including decapitaded bodies mutilated bodies drowned bodies and child porn on bobby dasssey computer. He denied computer was in his room but police photos confirm it was in his room. Denied looking at these images but forensic and investigators have confirmed only Bobby would have been home. Many of the pictures have uncanny resemblance to Teresa halbach

Brendan was coerced no question. Watch it

Kayla has recounted

Blood spatter doesn’t match prosecution theory as per world renound blood spatter experts

Josh radant has confirmed police tried to make him say fire was bigger than it was

Cannot burn a body in an open fire pit like prosecution theory, would have taken 100 plus gallons to keep fuelling fire etc etc as per world renound expert who has the most expertise in burning bodies in the world, but hey you want to believe Wisconsin

Not a single photo of bones and pit in situ

Coroner was threatened with arrest if she attends. Had to resign 6 months later as she feared for her life

Where are the rest of the bones

There would have been a sludge/ gooleft behind in burn pit, none

The whole investigation centred on Steven with proper investigation into anyone else

It’s bollocks, innocent or guilty he deserves a new trial

presumably the fire could have started in the burn pit and when they realised that the body was not going to be destroyed that way moved the body to the burn container/barrel which would have been able to burn the body effectively, this is where her camera and phone were found also.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 04, 2018, 12:59:PM
Perhaps you should watch the police flyover video which should answer your question.

You have obvious used a current google map of the yard which doesn’t show the yard as it was then .

I've just watched the police video , wow! could they have made it any more shaky ! it's all over the place amaturish , anyway from what I could see that pond did not seem to be dry! if that is the case then it doesn't in fact corroborate what BD said. however that video is so bad who really knows ?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 04, 2018, 03:33:PM
The evidence regarding the pond comes from BD himself.
It fired "the bullet" ,.... it fired the bullet which was recovered from his garage which also had TH DNA on it.
I believe BD says it was the left side of the head. this supports the pathologist findings.
I agree he was fed that information regarding the hood/

Yes, I know but so did a lot of other things that didn’t turn out to be based on fact. I imagine he mentioned the pond (which isn’t big enough or deep enough to hide the RAV4 or her body), because the RAV was found close to it. There is no evidence that it was ever a plan. She may have been shot with said bullet or DNA could have been transferred. BD was coaxed into saying she was shot in the first place but when asked which side, he initially said he didn’t know. I can’t find the entry for him saying the left but will keep looking. Also is that particular interview videod? Wouldn’t  trust those two officers as far as .......
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 04, 2018, 05:13:PM
https://imgur.com/GXzYV8V
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 04, 2018, 05:47:PM
https://imgur.com/GXzYV8V

Yes, it's in the trial transcript that they had no evidence that Bleach and paint thinners were used in a clan up - Just Brendan's claim and some marks on his Jeans. However, they were hunters and regularly cleaned out deer. Brendan could easily have gotten bleach on his jeans after helping Bobby (or someone else) clean up.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 04, 2018, 05:54:PM
The evidence regarding the pond comes from BD himself.
It fired "the bullet" ,.... it fired the bullet which was recovered from his garage which also had TH DNA on it.
I believe BD says it was the left side of the head. this supports the pathologist findings.
I agree he was fed that information regarding the hood/


He wasn't fed the info about the hood. Brendan already knew about it. How do we know this?

The investigators knew the killer had lifted up the hood because the power cables had been pulled from the battery in the car. Brendan was not going to bring up this minor detail without them reminding or prompting him. So Brendan then tells them his uncle lifted the hood.

Several month later DNA would confirm the killer who lifted the hood was Steven Avery. Just like Brendan said.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 04, 2018, 06:11:PM

He wasn't fed the info about the hood. Brendan already knew about it. How do we know this?

The investigators knew the killer had lifted up the hood because the power cables had been pulled from the battery in the car. Brendan was not going to bring up this minor detail without them reminding or prompting him. So Brendan then tells them his uncle lifted the hood.

Several month later DNA would confirm the killer who lifted the hood was Steven Avery. Just like Brendan said.


https://twitter.com/cadaverdogbrutu/status/1059064946493964289
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 04, 2018, 06:19:PM

He wasn't fed the info about the hood. Brendan already knew about it. How do we know this?

The investigators knew the killer had lifted up the hood because the power cables had been pulled from the battery in the car. Brendan was not going to bring up this minor detail without them reminding or prompting him. So Brendan then tells them his uncle lifted the hood.

Several month later DNA would confirm the killer who lifted the hood was Steven Avery. Just like Brendan said.

You keep talking about DNA as though it's a magic substance that can't be planted. He was fed the information about the hood - it's been posted here, denying it won't make it go away.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 04, 2018, 06:26:PM

I think you have developed an all consuming compulsion to disagree with me. Even if you knowingly have to disagree with yourself.



PS: Why do you have bleach on your clothes? Are you that dirty Ariel and Bold wont get the job done?




I don't think about you that much to adopt any kind of counter reasoning. I have my own mind, unlike you.

No, David, I clean things sometimes using bleach but you're such a moron you couldn't work that out. Grown ups clean things and yes! They use bleach!



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 04, 2018, 06:40:PM
https://twitter.com/MakingAMurderer/status/1058388266724904960
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 04, 2018, 06:44:PM
This is from the March 1st interview - find another example from Brendan's interviews before this one? It is CLEARLY 'suggested' to him, that Avery went under the hood.

Try telling us that the second example isn't misleading when Fassbender asks Brendan how he knew about the hood in the May 13th interview - Brendan knew because because he was TOLD by HIM!

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 04, 2018, 06:59:PM
- Coversations of the two phones calls Avery tells Jodi that he has Brendan over helping him "clean up" - He doesn't say that Brendan helped him clean up, he said in one call that HE cleaned up and in a later one that Brendan had helped him, not what he helped him with.

Now think about this for a minute. Why was Steve not being specific to Jodi about what Brendan was helping him with?  ::)

I know the guy is a total dumbass but he is not going tell his girlfriend in a casual phone conversation that Brendan was helping him clear away the remains of a woman he just raped and murdered now is he?

Even still that phone log is damning enough. Also (correct me if I am wrong) I can find no mention of the police finding a "rug doctor" at his home. If that is the case then its almost certain he returned it to wal-mart. And all the forensic evidence it removed.  :-\

Watch this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2zHTIrF7o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2zHTIrF7o)

No wonder they found no trace of TH in his trailer if that is the kind of clean up gear he had  :-\
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 04, 2018, 09:36:PM
presumably the fire could have started in the burn pit and when they realised that the body was not going to be destroyed that way moved the body to the burn container/barrel which would have been able to burn the body effectively, this is where her camera and phone were found also.

In that case where is the goo from the fat and skin? Where are the rest of the bones
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 04, 2018, 09:39:PM

He wasn't fed the info about the hood. Brendan already knew about it. How do we know this?

The investigators knew the killer had lifted up the hood because the power cables had been pulled from the battery in the car. Brendan was not going to bring up this minor detail without them reminding or prompting him. So Brendan then tells them his uncle lifted the hood.

Several month later DNA would confirm the killer who lifted the hood was Steven Avery. Just like Brendan said.

Omg 😮
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 04, 2018, 09:42:PM
Yes, it's in the trial transcript that they had no evidence that Bleach and paint thinners were used in a clan up - Just Brendan's claim and some marks on his Jeans. However, they were hunters and regularly cleaned out deer. Brendan could easily have gotten bleach on his jeans after helping Bobby (or someone else) clean up.

They dug the garage floor up Caroline and still not a drop of blood found. Funny how bobbys / cassette garage wasn’t looked at. Was there something in there about him hanging a deer in there. Blood all over.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 04, 2018, 09:45:PM
In that case where is the goo from the fat and skin? Where are the rest of the bones

why didnt that expert on MAM2 address the issue that the body could have been moved to the burn barrel to finish burning? isn't that more likely? it would have conducted more heat , the enclosed space could have "cremated" the body? the rest of the bones turned to ashes? along with the goo? otherwise where else was the body burned?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 05, 2018, 06:52:AM
They dug the garage floor up Caroline and still not a drop of blood found. Funny how bobbys / cassette garage wasn’t looked at. Was there something in there about him hanging a deer in there. Blood all over.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on November 05, 2018, 02:01:PM
why didnt that expert on MAM2 address the issue that the body could have been moved to the burn barrel to finish burning? isn't that more likely? it would have conducted more heat , the enclosed space could have "cremated" the body? the rest of the bones turned to ashes? along with the goo? otherwise where else was the body burned?

Because he is following the prosecutions theory, that’s what this is all about challenging thier theories, it doesn’t work
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 05, 2018, 04:38:PM
They dug the garage floor up Caroline and still not a drop of blood found. Funny how bobbys / cassette garage wasn’t looked at. Was there something in there about him hanging a deer in there. Blood all over.

A dead body does not bleed that much. Since there is no blood circulation or blood pressure once the heart stops.  Saying that there is no blood under a concrete floor is an attempt to create a bogus anomaly to distract people from the overwhelming amount of evidence showing Steven Avery is the killer.

Anyway its about time you answered some questions now.

1) Why were there ten spent bullet shell casings on the garage floor but only two bullets? were did the other eight go? 

2) Why in the crime scene photos can you see both the paint thinner bottle and bleach bottle left out? (The paint thinner has almost run out also)

3) Why did Avery claim his girlfriend fired those shots into the garage floor. When she couldnt since she was in prison at the time?


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 05, 2018, 06:18:PM
why didnt that expert on MAM2 address the issue that the body could have been moved to the burn barrel to finish burning? isn't that more likely? it would have conducted more heat , the enclosed space could have "cremated" the body? the rest of the bones turned to ashes? along with the goo? otherwise where else was the body burned?


The same reason why the blood spatter expert did not address the bloodstains in Avery's Pontiac.

The same reason why the blood spatter expert did not address the fact that while Steven Avery got inside her RAV4 it would have been dark and he wouldn't see exactly were the ignition is, hence he smeared his finger against the surface of the console while trying to get the key in.


The second series is no different from the first. Which is summed up perfectly below.


"Making A Murderer did not show you all the facts of the case, they did not show all the evidence, and they actually manufactured scenes and spliced together snippets from the courtroom testimony with edits that created a fictional narrative to manipulate the viewer into believing everyone was involved in a conspiracy to frame Steven Avery for this heinous murder"

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 05, 2018, 09:29:PM

The same reason why the blood spatter expert did not address the bloodstains in Avery's Pontiac.

The same reason why the blood spatter expert did not address the fact that while Steven Avery got inside her RAV4 it would have been dark and he wouldn't see exactly were the ignition is, hence he smeared his finger against the surface of the console while trying to get the key in.


The second series is no different from the first. Which is summed up perfectly below.


"Making A Murderer did not show you all the facts of the case, they did not show all the evidence, and they actually manufactured scenes and spliced together snippets from the courtroom testimony with edits that created a fictional narrative to manipulate the viewer into believing everyone was involved in a conspiracy to frame Steven Avery for this heinous murder"

No lights inside the RAV4 then?  ::)

You haven't seen the second series.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 05, 2018, 11:30:PM
No lights inside the RAV4 then?  ::)


Yes, but if you read the instruction manual for that model. The interior light only comes on automatically when you open the back doors or the boot door. Suprisingly not for the front door that Avery would have entered from. (see attached) I say surprisingly because I would have expected that feature to include all doors if the car had it. But I am not surprised considering the bloodstain, it further explains the bloodstain if anything.

Surely the first thing thats going to cross his mind when he gets inside is put the key in the ignition.

Then you have to consider the possibilty that the last thing he done was remove the key from the ignition after he had pulled the power from the battery under the hood. There would definatley be no lights working then.

You haven't seen the second series.

Like the old saying goes: Fool me once shame on them. Fool me twice shame on me.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 06, 2018, 12:47:AM
Yes, but if you read the instruction manual for that model. The interior light only comes on automatically when you open the back doors or the boot door. Suprisingly not for the front door that Avery would have entered from. (see attached) I say surprisingly because I would have expected that feature to include all doors if the car had it. But I am not surprised considering the bloodstain, it further explains the bloodstain if anything.

Surely the first thing thats going to cross his mind when he gets inside is put the key in the ignition.

Then you have to consider the possibilty that the last thing he done was remove the key from the ignition after he had pulled the power from the battery under the hood. There would definatley be no lights working then.

Like the old saying goes: Fool me once shame on them. Fool me twice shame on me.

I think you have taken the manual literally, here is someone talking about the interior lights on their RAV 4 http://www.fixya.com/cars/t7249149-overhead_light_drivers_side - I doubt any car manufacturer would make a car that only allowed interior lights to come on when the back doors were opened and not the front.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 06, 2018, 01:30:AM
I think you have taken the manual literally, here is someone talking about the interior lights on their RAV 4 http://www.fixya.com/cars/t7249149-overhead_light_drivers_side - I doubt any car manufacturer would make a car that only allowed interior lights to come on when the back doors were opened and not the front.

The interior light can come on with the front doors open but not automatically. The people who get in the front can toggle the light switch on if they wish. People who open the rear doors or the boot wont be able to reach it so it makes sense from an economical point of view.

Even if we assume that this car had front door sensors for the light (which it didn't) There is no way to know if the switch was toggled to "off" or "door mode" if it was on off then no lights are coming on regardless of what door you open.

Further more you have the possibility of Avery reaching in to get the keys after he has pulled the battery.

You also have to consider why Avery left this car there with his blood inside it. Yes we know he is a moron but also maybe the light was toggled to "off" in the first place and never saw what he left inside. 

So that is three possible senarios of whereby Avery has his hand near the ignigtion while in darkness. And we know this happened because he left his blood there.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 06, 2018, 04:43:AM
The interior light can come on with the front doors open but not automatically. The people who get in the front can toggle the light switch on if they wish. People who open the rear doors or the boot wont be able to reach it so it makes sense from an economical point of view.

Even if we assume that this car had front door sensors for the light (which it didn't) There is no way to know if the switch was toggled to "off" or "door mode" if it was on off then no lights are coming on regardless of what door you open.

Further more you have the possibility of Avery reaching in to get the keys after he has pulled the battery.

You also have to consider why Avery left this car there with his blood inside it. Yes we know he is a moron but also maybe the light was toggled to "off" in the first place and never saw what he left inside. 

So that is three possible senarios of whereby Avery has his hand near the ignigtion while in darkness. And we know this happened because he left his blood there.

So you're trying to say that in the very area where a driver would need light, the designer decided not to provide it? I gave you a link to a forum where the issue of internal lighting was being discussed and it's clear the RAV4 did have this BASIC feature. It's easy to check out by asking Toyota.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 06, 2018, 01:13:PM
So you're trying to say that in the very area where a driver would need light, the designer decided not to provide it? I gave you a link to a forum where the issue of internal lighting was being discussed and it's clear the RAV4 did have this BASIC feature. It's easy to check out by asking Toyota.


No that is not what I am saying. The light is there, but it must be toggled. But for argument sake even if the lights are all on everywhere it does not overcome the fact that the battery cable was pulled. Then nothing would work. Avery could then have removed the key after he done his.

We know Avery's right finger came into contact with that area. Because the blood is there in the first place.

Any alternative now rests on his recent recollection of wet blood being stolen from his sink.  ::)
And as we already know from his girlfiend shooting his garage floor among other things he is not in the slightest a credible witness.

And even if one is EXTREMELY generous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt over this stolen blood from the sink. From the moment he gets the blood in the sink, it leaves someone a 15 minute time frame to plant the blood in the car. And this was before the car was even found. The blood stolen from the sink according to Avery happened on the 3rd of November. The car is out of sight.

Who is going to believe that? I sure dont.


 



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 06, 2018, 02:04:PM

No that is not what I am saying. The light is there, but it must be toggled. But for argument sake even if the lights are all on everywhere it does not overcome the fact that the battery cable was pulled. Then nothing would work. Avery could then have removed the key after he done his.

We know Avery's right finger came into contact with that area. Because the blood is there in the first place.

Any alternative now rests on his recent recollection of wet blood being stolen from his sink.  ::)
And as we already know from his girlfiend shooting his garage floor among other things he is not in the slightest a credible witness.

And even if one is EXTREMELY generous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt over this stolen blood from the sink. From the moment he gets the blood in the sink, it leaves someone a 15 minute time frame to plant the blood in the car. And this was before the car was even found. The blood stolen from the sink according to Avery happened on the 3rd of November. The car is out of sight.

Who is going to believe that? I sure dont.

I don't believe his blood was stolen from the sink, but I also don't see how he would get one smear on the dashboard when removing the key and none on the key. It was a pretty big cut.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 06, 2018, 02:30:PM
I don't believe his blood was stolen from the sink, but I also don't see how he would get one smear on the dashboard when removing the key and none on the key. It was a pretty big cut.

We know from the blood in his Pontiac that this cut was not gushing blood. Also this cut goes right over a joint. The cut will alter depending on whether his finger is staight or bent.

As for the key how do you know he didn’t notice blood on the key when he got in then washed it off?

If you don’t believe the blood was stolen from the sink then what options are left other than he drove the car?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 06, 2018, 04:21:PM
We know from the blood in his Pontiac that this cut was not gushing blood. Also this cut goes right over a joint. The cut will alter depending on whether his finger is staight or bent.

As for the key how do you know he didn’t notice blood on the key when he got in then washed it off?

If you don’t believe the blood was stolen from the sink then what options are left other than he drove the car?

His blood was on the gear stick and on the console beneath so it must have dripped. I don't know that he didn't wash the blood off the key but I doubt he would go to the trouble of washing the key but then keep it in his trailer.

I can't say where the blood came from but then i can't be sure where it came from in the Bamber case either - but I still don't buy the silencer. I guess where there is a will, there is a way. I do think there is
strong possibility that Avery is guilty, but don't think that Brendan is as involved as is implied. It could be that Avery and Bobby were involved - Avery could never admit that so all Bobby has to do is keep denying it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 07, 2018, 07:54:AM
His blood was on the gear stick and on the console beneath so it must have dripped. I don't know that he didn't wash the blood off the key but I doubt he would go to the trouble of washing the key but then keep it in his trailer.

I can't say where the blood came from but then i can't be sure where it came from in the Bamber case either - but I still don't buy the silencer. I guess where there is a will, there is a way. I do think there is
strong possibility that Avery is guilty, but don't think that Brendan is as involved as is implied. It could be that Avery and Bobby were involved - Avery could never admit that so all Bobby has to do is keep denying it.

Bamber is another case. I am judging this case on its own merits.

As for Bobby Dassey his testimony is corroborated by Tereas's last client before Avery. Its also supported by the timings of the phone calls between Avery and Teresa. Bobby also has two alibi witnesses Scott Tadych and more importantly Brendan Dassey who does not implicate him in the crime and also corroborates Tadych claim that Bobby Dassey went out hunting.

It seems the TV show has distorted Bobby Dassey to make him look like "the real killer".

The show also probably makes a big deal out of the photos of Teresa on Bobbys computer. However you can see these photos yourself in the case files. I have attached them. These photos are from online news articles when Teresa went missing.  I bet the show was trying to insinuate that he was stalking her or something.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 07, 2018, 03:04:PM
Bamber is another case. I am judging this case on its own merits.

As for Bobby Dassey his testimony is corroborated by Tereas's last client before Avery. Its also supported by the timings of the phone calls between Avery and Teresa. Bobby also has two alibi witnesses Scott Tadych and more importantly Brendan Dassey who does not implicate him in the crime and also corroborates Tadych claim that Bobby Dassey went out hunting.

It seems the TV show has distorted Bobby Dassey to make him look like "the real killer".

The show also probably makes a big deal out of the photos of Teresa on Bobbys computer. However you can see these photos yourself in the case files. I have attached them. These photos are from online news articles when Teresa went missing.  I bet the show was trying to insinuate that he was stalking her or something.

Whether this is another case or not, fact remains that there is an issue of blood in the Bamber case too but it doesn't stop people thinking the silencer was a frame.

Corroborated by the last client before Avery how?
Supported by the timings of the phone calls how?
Brendan isn't likely to point fingers at his own brother and police never suggested Bobby's involvement - had they done so, the suggestion would probably have been made.
Tadych is also a suspicious character.

No it the series didn't make much of Teresa's picture being on Bobby's computer - just the other perverted and sick images.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 08, 2018, 08:54:PM

No that is not what I am saying. The light is there, but it must be toggled. But for argument sake even if the lights are all on everywhere it does not overcome the fact that the battery cable was pulled. Then nothing would work. Avery could then have removed the key after he done his.

We know Avery's right finger came into contact with that area. Because the blood is there in the first place.

Any alternative now rests on his recent recollection of wet blood being stolen from his sink.  ::)
And as we already know from his girlfiend shooting his garage floor among other things he is not in the slightest a credible witness.

And even if one is EXTREMELY generous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt over this stolen blood from the sink. From the moment he gets the blood in the sink, it leaves someone a 15 minute time frame to plant the blood in the car. And this was before the car was even found. The blood stolen from the sink according to Avery happened on the 3rd of November. The car is out of sight.

Who is going to believe that? I sure dont.

why did SA "hide " TH key in his bedroom? why not burn it in the burn barrel with her camera , phone etc? Was he intending to move the car again and then did not get the opportunity? thoughts please
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 08, 2018, 09:05:PM
why did SA "hide " TH key in his bedroom? why not burn it in the burn barrel with her camera , phone etc? Was he intending to move the car again and then did not get the opportunity? thoughts please


Either he was planning to move the car again but couldn't because of the resulting missing persons investigation having all eyes on the junkyard and he had just enough braincells to realise he would be spotted driving her car and so was waiting for an opportunity.

OR

He is just a dumbass and put no thought into the implications of keeping the key.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 09:40:PM
why did SA "hide " TH key in his bedroom? why not burn it in the burn barrel with her camera , phone etc? Was he intending to move the car again and then did not get the opportunity? thoughts please

Given that it cops seven searches to find it, I doubt they found the key.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 08, 2018, 09:41:PM

Either he was planning to move the car again but couldn't because of the resulting missing persons investigation having all eyes on the junkyard and he had just enough braincells to realise he would be spotted driving her car and so was waiting for an opportunity.

OR

He is just a dumbass and put no thought into the implications of keeping the key.

Corroborated by the last client before Avery how?
Supported by the timings of the phone calls how?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 09, 2018, 04:42:PM
https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/election-results-may-be-good-news-making-a-murderer-duo-1203023648/?fbclid=IwAR0Y5LrcQs45SAChKcAz2G_XC8JMf18UJ9XifgrFjqXQOkQZuHGkVIT8534#utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=social_bar&utm_content=bottom&utm_id=1203023648
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 09, 2018, 09:46:PM
Corroborated by the last client before Avery how?
Supported by the timings of the phone calls how?

Teresa Halback visited a client before Avery. He/She testified that Teresa Halbach would have arrived by their estimate at Averys around 3:00pm. (this client lived close to Avery). Bobby Dassey testified that he remembers her arriving around 2:45pm.  Read through the telephone records between Avery, Teresa and her last client. Work it out for yourself.


The real killer has cleared Bobby Dassey of any involvement anyway.  ;D

https://i2.wp.com/theinspiringdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/InGSICt.jpg (https://i2.wp.com/theinspiringdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/InGSICt.jpg)


 
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 09, 2018, 11:46:PM
Teresa Halback visited a client before Avery. He/She testified that Teresa Halbach would have arrived by their estimate at Averys around 3:00pm. (this client lived close to Avery). Bobby Dassey testified that he remembers her arriving around 2:45pm.  Read through the telephone records between Avery, Teresa and her last client. Work it out for yourself.


The real killer has cleared Bobby Dassey of any involvement anyway.  ;D

https://i2.wp.com/theinspiringdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/InGSICt.jpg (https://i2.wp.com/theinspiringdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/InGSICt.jpg)

So she was still taking photographs 45 minutes to an hour later?

If BD was involved WITH Avery, he's hardly going to admit to it is he?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 10, 2018, 10:02:AM
https://productionsouth.wordpress.com/2018/11/09/michael-griesbach-called-out-by-beyond-avery-road-author/
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 12, 2018, 12:54:AM
Here are some more of Steven Avery's letters from jail.


(http://i.imgur.com/dJ1n2SI.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/0Yxjn2j.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/6BxYRdE.png)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 12, 2018, 12:56:AM
Here are some more of Steven Avery's letters from jail.


Threatening to kill people and kill their children also!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 12, 2018, 12:01:PM
Threatening to kill people and kill their children also!

I Wouldn’t want this guy as my next door neighbor.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 12, 2018, 05:05:PM
I Wouldn’t want this guy as my next door neighbor.

Me either - but I wouldn't want several people as neighbours. Many people make threats - it doesn't mean they would go ahead and act on them. Avery had never threatened Teresa and he surely would have known he would be a suspect - but then again, perhaps he really is that much of a moron. I think he is most likely guilty BUT (like Bamber), I feel that some of it was engineered and that Brendan is not a reliable witness because of the methods employed to interrogate him.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 03:59:PM
Me either - but I wouldn't want several people as neighbours. Many people make threats - it doesn't mean they would go ahead and act on them. Avery had never threatened Teresa and he surely would have known he would be a suspect - but then again, perhaps he really is that much of a moron. I think he is most likely guilty BUT (like Bamber), I feel that some of it was engineered and that Brendan is not a reliable witness because of the methods employed to interrogate him.


Why on earth would they "engineer" evidence? There is so much why bother? You could take half the evidence away and still a jury would find him guilty. (Unlike Bamber)

Also there are many witnesses that have no motive to lie. (Unlike Bamber)


According to Rachel Haggs who worked with Teresa at Auto Trader

"RACHEL went on to indicate that she had learned STEVEN AVERY had made inappropriate comments to TERESA in the past and further had come out of the house on a previous occasion wearing only a towel."

According to Dawn Pliszka who also worked with Teresa at AutoTrader

"DAWN did tell me TERESA had confided in her about STEVEN AVERY on one prior occasion. She states STEVEN had come out of the house wearing nothing but a towel one time and TERESA was somewhat concerned by that."


photo studio owner who worked with Teresa.

"He said TERESA told him she had some problems with male clients over the summer after the photo shoot; and while filling out paperwork and taking payment, she often was invited into the homes. He said TERESA said some males become verbally or physically flirtatious offering her drinks, etc. PEARCE said that he had warned her to be careful, being alone and often times in rural areas."


According to a Plumber named Michael Osmumso.

"STEVEN stated people go missing all the time and this girl may "have left for Mexico.""

Why would Steven be telling people she may have left for Mexico? ...hhhhhm
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 04:31:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo)



 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 14, 2018, 07:40:PM

Why on earth would they "engineer" evidence? There is so much why bother? You could take half the evidence away and still a jury would find him guilty. (Unlike Bamber)

Also there are many witnesses that have no motive to lie. (Unlike Bamber)


According to Rachel Haggs who worked with Teresa at Auto Trader

"RACHEL went on to indicate that she had learned STEVEN AVERY had made inappropriate comments to TERESA in the past and further had come out of the house on a previous occasion wearing only a towel."

According to Dawn Pliszka who also worked with Teresa at AutoTrader

"DAWN did tell me TERESA had confided in her about STEVEN AVERY on one prior occasion. She states STEVEN had come out of the house wearing nothing but a towel one time and TERESA was somewhat concerned by that."


photo studio owner who worked with Teresa.

"He said TERESA told him she had some problems with male clients over the summer after the photo shoot; and while filling out paperwork and taking payment, she often was invited into the homes. He said TERESA said some males become verbally or physically flirtatious offering her drinks, etc. PEARCE said that he had warned her to be careful, being alone and often times in rural areas."


According to a Plumber named Michael Osmumso.

"STEVEN stated people go missing all the time and this girl may "have left for Mexico.""

Why would Steven be telling people she may have left for Mexico? ...hhhhhm

It's only genuine evidence if it's not engineered and you have been brain washed re: Bamber. I'm not suggesting Avery is innocent just that the police tampered with the evidence and that Brendan's testimony should never have been allowed. You have to invest an outlandish theory to explain why so many witnesses would lie in the Bamber case - including how an old farmer was able to bully EP into fitting up and innocent Jeremy.

How is Avery wearing a towel evidence that he killed her?

According to a plumber? Isn't that hearsay? Hmmmmm?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 14, 2018, 07:44:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo)



 ;D ;D ;D

Dear god!  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 14, 2018, 08:33:PM
I'm not suggesting Avery is innocent.

Its rather ridiculous to suggest as you now know.

just that the police tampered with the evidence

What evidence and why?

and that Brendan's testimony should never have been allowed.

Brendan Dassey never testified at Avery's trial. The Jury were never told about Brendan Dassey because the prosecution could not even bring him up. Because -

The Sixth Amendment provides that a person accused of a crime has the right to confront a witness against him or her in a criminal action. As well as the right to cross-examine the prosecution's witnesses.


You have to invest an outlandish theory to explain why so many witnesses would lie in the Bamber case -including how an old farmer was able to bully EP into fitting up and innocent Jeremy.

Outlandish? The conspiracy needed for Avery being innocent is bigger than Mikes theory of police shooting Sheila.

How is Avery wearing a towel evidence that he killed her?

It has plenty of pervy rapey undertones to it you must admit  ;D

According to a plumber? Isn't that hearsay? Hmmmmm?

No because it came from Steven.


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 14, 2018, 10:10:PM


Its rather ridiculous to suggest as you now know. - No more ridiculous than believing Bamber is innocent.

What evidence and why? The key for starters

Brendan Dassey never testified at Avery's trial. The Jury were never told about Brendan Dassey because the prosecution could not even bring him up. Because -tood trial![/color]

The Sixth Amendment provides that a person accused of a crime has the right to confront a witness against him or her in a criminal action. As well as the right to cross-examine the prosecution's witnesses.


Outlandish? The conspiracy needed for Avery being innocent is bigger than Mikes theory of police shooting Sheila.

It has plenty of pervy rapey undertones to it you must admit  ;D

No because it came from Steven.

Its rather ridiculous to suggest as you now know.

What evidence and why?

Brendan Dassey never testified at Avery's trial. The Jury were never told about Brendan Dassey because the prosecution could not even bring him up. Because -

The Sixth Amendment provides that a person accused of a crime has the right to confront a witness against him or her in a criminal action. As well as the right to cross-examine the prosecution's witnesses.

I never said it was used at Avery's trial but it was used to convict Dassey. Had Dassey given his evidence it would have been ripped to shreds because he wouldn't have remembered what he was talked into saying.


Outlandish? The conspiracy needed for Avery being innocent is bigger than Mikes theory of police shooting Sheila. Rubbish!

It has plenty of pervy rapey undertones to it you must admit  ;D - Like the Youtube video you posted above cept the guy in your video was pretty graphic and you thought THAT was funny!

No because it came from Steven. That's not what your post stated, you said that according to the plumber Avery said she might have gone to Mexico. So, did Avery actually say it or did the plumber say he said it? Not that it makes him a killer even if he did say it

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 17, 2018, 04:25:PM
And so....

What is everybodies position on this case now? I think Indigo and Caroline have come to thier senses now.

What about Buddy and Jon? or are they still in Netflix fantasy world?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 17, 2018, 06:06:PM
And so....

What is everybodies position on this case now? I think Indigo and Caroline have come to thier senses now.

What about Buddy and Jon? or are they still in Netflix fantasy world?

Come to my senses about what? The thread (for the hundredth time) isn't about guilt or innocence! Why can't you understand that? Maybe one day you will come to yours, but nit today!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 17, 2018, 06:36:PM
Come to my senses about what? The thread (for the hundredth time) isn't about guilt or innocence! Why can't you understand that? Maybe one day you will come to yours, but nit today!

What’s it about then?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 17, 2018, 11:16:PM
What’s it about then?

Like we said from the beginning of the thread 'watch the f'ing series'!

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 18, 2018, 01:53:PM
if the dna ws tested correctly in the first place then a retest will see eactly the same thing as the first test so why does the proscution just not agrea to the defence reuest for a retest of the dna.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 03:26:PM
Like we said from the beginning of the thread 'watch the f'ing series'!

The series is about his guilt or innocence (allbeit very one sided) you silly sausage!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 03:27:PM
The series is about his guilt or innocence (allbeit very one sided) you silly sausage!

Talking about sausages I’m hungry now  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 18, 2018, 03:33:PM
And so....

What is everybodies position on this case now? I think Indigo and Caroline have come to thier senses now.

What about Buddy and Jon? or are they still in Netflix fantasy world?

I think he's guilty.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 04:07:PM
I think he's guilty.

To my mind there is no room for doubt. He is guilty beyond all doubt. One can safely know he is guilty.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 18, 2018, 04:52:PM
if hes guilty a dna retest will prove it beyound doubt.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 05:05:PM
if hes guilty a dna retest will prove it beyound doubt.

There is no DNA left on the bullet to test.

Even if we ignore the bullet. There is still a mountian of incriminating evidence that remains.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 18, 2018, 05:16:PM
There is no DNA left on the bullet to test.

Even if we ignore the bullet. There is still a mountian of incriminating evidence that remains.

we would the defence be asking for a restest if there was noting to retest.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 06:26:PM
we would the defence be asking for a restest if there was noting to retest.


Propaganda, smoke and mirrors!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 18, 2018, 06:46:PM
The series is about his guilt or innocence (allbeit very one sided) you silly sausage!

No, it's about the evidence presented - he can be guilty but on evidence which was engineered - Just like Bamber.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 18, 2018, 07:10:PM

Propaganda, smoke and mirrors!

so hes passed a motion to retest dna that he knows does not exist you get disbarred for doing that.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 07:35:PM
No, it's about the evidence presented - he can be guilty but on evidence which was engineered - Just like Bamber.

Steven Avery is guilty and nothing was "engineered". To think otherwise requires a serious lack of critical thinking or tactical stupidity.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 07:37:PM
so hes passed a motion to retest dna that he knows does not exist you get disbarred for doing that.


Zellner is 69 years old. What does she have to lose? This is her last hurrah before retirement.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on November 18, 2018, 08:14:PM

Zellner is 69 years old. What does she have to lose? This is her last hurrah before retirement.

Good grief! I didn't know she was that old  :o !

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on November 18, 2018, 08:26:PM
how many times do prosecutors claim there is no dna to test when the clearly is i remember this being said to colin stagg when he asked for dna tsting to clear his name then what do you know that convicted someone else of the crime using dna evidence.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 08:43:PM
how many times do prosecutors claim there is no dna to test when the clearly is i remember this being said to colin stagg when he asked for dna tsting to clear his name then what do you know that convicted someone else of the crime using dna evidence.


This was established during his trial. There was only one partial DNA profile on the bullet and only enough for one test. The DNA is now gone as it was used up in the testing. It was the victims DNA.


The prosecution are not hiding anything. The fact such a small amount of DNA was on the bullet is further proof that is was not "planted" on the bullet.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 18, 2018, 08:51:PM
Good grief! I didn't know she was that old  :o !


She claims to be 61 but the birth records show she is 69  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 18, 2018, 11:49:PM
Steven Avery is guilty and nothing was "engineered". To think otherwise requires a serious lack of critical thinking or tactical stupidity.

I think you are confusing this case with Bamber. It is CLEAR that BD was fed information. You believe Julie was on VERY spurious and flimsy evidence.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 24, 2018, 05:14:PM
The latest defence examination of the bullet further shows the bullet was not planted.

Traces of wood and probable red paint was found on the bullet. Averys garage is made entirely out of wood. The bullet was found by one of the wooden walls next to a tool station that was painted red. The ceiling of the garage was not only wood but was painted red also.


Along with the DNA on the bullet. This shows the bullet passed through Teresa Halback then richoched against the wooden wall and red tool station.

PS: Buddy and Jon2 have gone silent. Have they woke up to smell the coffee?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 24, 2018, 05:20:PM
I think you are confusing this case with Bamber. It is CLEAR that BD was fed information. You believe Julie was on VERY spurious and flimsy evidence.

Dassey's confession is consistent with the facts of the case. He gives over facts not known by law enformcement such as -

Brendan said the murder weapon was Steven Averys 22lr. This was later proven correct and not known to law enforemnet at the time of Brendan's confession.

Brendan said Teresa Halbach was shot in Averys garage. This was later proven correct and not known to law enforemnet at the time of Brendan's confession.

Brendan said Steven Avery went under the hood of the victims car. A subsequent DNA test on the hood latch would confrim Brendans account.

Brendan said Teresa was shot to the left side of the head. This was later proven correct by the forensic anthropologist at Steven Avery's trial.

Brendan said he and Steven tried to hide the car in the pond but they decided it was too shallow. The car was found right by a shallow pond.

Brendan said he cleaned up the murder scene with bleach. It was later discovered that the jeans he wore that night had bleach stains on them.

Brendan said Steven broke up some bones and buried them. This was later confirmed by the forensic anthropologists at Steven Averys trial.


Taking the above things into consideration one must accept its extremely unlikley for Brendan to make up so many things that just so happened to be true. The suggestibility/coercion argument cannot explain the above details of Brendans confession because law enforment knew nothing of them. The only explantion is the obvious one and that is Brendan was involved.

Now lets look at what Brendan also said but what Police already knew.

Brendan said they had a bonfire. - Witnesses saw a bonfire.
Brendan said they burned the victims stuff in the burn barrell. - The victims stuff was found in the burn barrell.
Brendan said they burned the victim in the burn pit. - The victims bones was found in the burn pit.
Brendan said Steve shot Teresa ten times. - 10 shell casings found in Averys garage.
Brendan said he used bleach and paint thinner to wipe up the floor. - Bleach and paint thinner was still left out in the garage.
Brendan said they used tyers and a car seat to fuel the fire. - Burned tyers and car seat found in the burn pit.
Brendan said Steven broke up some of the bones into smaller pieces and buried them. - A hammer and shovel was found by the burn pit.
Brendan said Teresa Halbach was in Avery's trailer. - Teresa Halbach had indeed left the auto trader magazine in Steven Averys trailer.

And so....

At this point you realise that Brendan not only knew things that ONLY a guilty person could know. His confession is consistent with so many facts. And at this point the claim that he is not very clever begins to backfire on his supporters because if he was as stupid as people claim he wouldnt be able to give a false account that was so accurate in the first place. All this idiot had to do was remember.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 24, 2018, 10:15:PM
Dassey's confession is consistent with the facts of the case. He gives over facts not known by law enformcement such as -

Brendan said the murder weapon was Steven Averys 22lr. This was later proven correct and not known to law enforemnet at the time of Brendan's confession.

Brendan said Teresa Halbach was shot in Averys garage. This was later proven correct and not known to law enforemnet at the time of Brendan's confession.

Brendan said Steven Avery went under the hood of the victims car. A subsequent DNA test on the hood latch would confrim Brendans account.

Brendan said Teresa was shot to the left side of the head. This was later proven correct by the forensic anthropologist at Steven Avery's trial.

Brendan said he and Steven tried to hide the car in the pond but they decided it was too shallow. The car was found right by a shallow pond.

Brendan said he cleaned up the murder scene with bleach. It was later discovered that the jeans he wore that night had bleach stains on them.

Brendan said Steven broke up some bones and buried them. This was later confirmed by the forensic anthropologists at Steven Averys trial.


Taking the above things into consideration one must accept its extremely unlikley for Brendan to make up so many things that just so happened to be true. The suggestibility/coercion argument cannot explain the above details of Brendans confession because law enforment knew nothing of them. The only explantion is the obvious one and that is Brendan was involved.

Now lets look at what Brendan also said but what Police already knew.

Brendan said they had a bonfire. - Witnesses saw a bonfire.
Brendan said they burned the victims stuff in the burn barrell. - The victims stuff was found in the burn barrell.
Brendan said they burned the victim in the burn pit. - The victims bones was found in the burn pit.
Brendan said Steve shot Teresa ten times. - 10 shell casings found in Averys garage.
Brendan said he used bleach and paint thinner to wipe up the floor. - Bleach and paint thinner was still left out in the garage.
Brendan said they used tyers and a car seat to fuel the fire. - Burned tyers and car seat found in the burn pit.
Brendan said Steven broke up some of the bones into smaller pieces and buried them. - A hammer and shovel was found by the burn pit.
Brendan said Teresa Halbach was in Avery's trailer. - Teresa Halbach had indeed left the auto trader magazine in Steven Averys trailer.

And so....

At this point you realise that Brendan not only knew things that ONLY a guilty person could know. His confession is consistent with so many facts. And at this point the claim that he is not very clever begins to backfire on his supporters because if he was as stupid as people claim he wouldnt be able to give a false account that was so accurate in the first place. All this idiot had to do was remember.

Because they TOLD him what they wanted him to say!  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 24, 2018, 11:27:PM
Because they TOLD him what they wanted him to say!  ::)

You know that's not true. They cannot tell him to say stuff they don't already know themselves. I think your just being plain stubborn now.

Even Brendan's lawyers and their expert conceded their client was not coerced into what he said. Brendan was just days away from completing a plea agreement until Steven Avery put a spanner in the works.

(https://i.ibb.co/D4L44M4/kkemail.jpg)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on November 25, 2018, 12:55:AM
You know that's not true. They cannot tell him to say stuff they don't already know themselves. I think your just being plain stubborn now.

Even Brendan's lawyers and their expert conceded their client was not coerced into what he said. Brendan was just days away from completing a plea agreement until Steven Avery put a spanner in the works.

(https://i.ibb.co/D4L44M4/kkemail.jpg)

Don't tell me what I think David - it's a childish tactic of yours to imply that I believe one thing but am posting another. I have given several examples of where he was TOLD what to say, problem is you don't bother to read other people's posts you just blather on and on in respect to your own opinion.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on November 25, 2018, 04:32:PM
Notice how Brendan was about to tell the Judge that he thinks his lawyer knows he is guilty. Realises what he almost said then chances tone.

"Judge: Mr. Kachinsky, do you believe that this request is his free and unfettered choice?

Kachinsky: Um, I'm not sure about that, Your Honor. I have received information that there
has been an ongoing campaign by Mr. Dassey's co-defendant to encourage him to
obtain new counsel that might be more to his co-defendant's liking.

Judge: Mr. Dassey, how do you get along with Mr. Kachinsky?

Brendan: Not bad.

Judge: Does "not bad" mean good or what?
 
Brendan: Yeah.
 
Judge: Do you guys fight when you're together?
 
Brendan: No.

Judge: Can you talk with him?

Brendan: Yeah.

Judge: Do you think he's doing what he believes to be in your best interest?

Brendan: Sort of.

Judge: Tell me why you want to change lawyers at this point.

Brendan: Cause I think that he no, That I think he thinks I'm guilty.

Judge: And that's the reason that you want to get a different lawyer?

Brendan: Yeah.

Judge: I don't see or hear anything that tells me that there is an irreconcilable conflict or difference.

"
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Jon2 on November 27, 2018, 07:03:PM
https://www.reddit.com/comments/a0vrgq
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 01, 2018, 07:28:PM
Looks like things are getting interesting on this case

The battery in the rav was replaced. The replacement battery has been traced back to law enforcement

Kathleen zellners next submission is due 20th December so should be interesting to see what comes of this
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on December 01, 2018, 11:55:PM
Looks like things are getting interesting on this case

The battery in the rav was replaced. The replacement battery has been traced back to law enforcement

Kathleen zellners next submission is due 20th December so should be interesting to see what comes of this

Thanks for that Notsure! I have looked at KZ's Twitter feed but can't find her actually stating the battery came from the police, just that they have tracked where it came from?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 02, 2018, 12:34:PM
Hi Caroline, she has said that it fits crown vics which is a car that police used at that time and it’s been traced back Andy colborn Policeman called in her number plate from his mobile phone so all that’s a bit odd.

Also a chap on tick tock Manitowock is a retired investigator who realised the battery had been replaced and he is now in direct contact with KZ . I think if you read ttm and go to post about it you will get the picture it’s realky interesting
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 02, 2018, 12:36:PM
Sorry meant to put a full stop after traces back! So as not to confuse she hasn’t said it’s andy colborn but she’s defo insinuating it is An LE BATTERY.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 02, 2018, 12:39:PM
In caso reports mike weigert ( I think it was him) wrote to Toyota dealer in 2006 asking what type of battery should be in rag, he received a reply with the correct battery info. He didn’t do anything with that information it seems.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on December 07, 2018, 12:46:PM
what i find strange is averys buisnes is destroying cars but he makss no atempt to destroy the victems but des manage to get rid of other evdence you would think the car would by the first thing he would think of
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 07, 2018, 02:01:PM
what i find strange is averys buisnes is destroying cars but he makss no atempt to destroy the victems but des manage to get rid of other evdence you would think the car would by the first thing he would think of

Nothing strange at all. Steven Avery didnt crush the car because -

A) Only Earl Avery and Al Avery had keys to the front loader needed to place the car into the crusher.

B) Earl Avery operated the crusher not Steven.

C) The front loader had no lights, so could not have been used at night time.

D) You have to take the engine out and other solid parts out before you crush it. The crusher is designed to crush a car that is more or less just a shell stripped of most things inside.

E) Al Avery kept a log of everything crushed and everything taken out to be sold on


In other words Steven could not have crushed the car without getting his dad and brother involved.


So he cant crush it, the pond is too shallow hence all he could do was take the number plates off and leave it hidden among 4000 other cars until he can think of something else.



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2018, 10:03:PM
Nothing strange at all. Steven Avery didnt crush the car because -

A) Only Earl Avery and Al Avery had keys to the front loader needed to place the car into the crusher.

B) Earl Avery operated the crusher not Steven.

C) The front loader had no lights, so could not have been used at night time.

D) You have to take the engine out and other solid parts out before you crush it. The crusher is designed to crush a car that is more or less just a shell stripped of most things inside.

E) Al Avery kept a log of everything crushed and everything taken out to be sold on


In other words Steven could not have crushed the car without getting his dad and brother involved.


So he cant crush it, the pond is too shallow hence all he could do was take the number plates off and leave it hidden among 4000 other cars until he can think of something else.

Bobby Dassey would have had the same issues.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on December 07, 2018, 10:22:PM
Nothing strange at all. Steven Avery didnt crush the car because -

A) Only Earl Avery and Al Avery had keys to the front loader needed to place the car into the crusher.

B) Earl Avery operated the crusher not Steven.

C) The front loader had no lights, so could not have been used at night time.

D) You have to take the engine out and other solid parts out before you crush it. The crusher is designed to crush a car that is more or less just a shell stripped of most things inside.

E) Al Avery kept a log of everything crushed and everything taken out to be sold on


In other words Steven could not have crushed the car without getting his dad and brother involved.


So he cant crush it, the pond is too shallow hence all he could do was take the number plates off and leave it hidden among 4000 other cars until he can think of something else.

he could of got them  to do it he doesnt have to them who the car belongs to he just has to say hes got a car that needs crushing there not going to know any better.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 17, 2018, 11:31:PM
Retired Manitowoc police lieutenant Andrew Colborn has filed a defamation lawsuit against Netflix and the creators of the series. He is the guy they have accused of planting the car key.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4m3b4otb5sz8as/summons%20and%20complaint%252c%20Colborn%20v%20Netflix%252c%20et%20al%252c%20authenticated.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4m3b4otb5sz8as/summons%20and%20complaint%252c%20Colborn%20v%20Netflix%252c%20et%20al%252c%20authenticated.pdf?dl=0)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 19, 2018, 05:51:PM
Retired Manitowoc police lieutenant Andrew Colborn has filed a defamation lawsuit against Netflix and the creators of the series. He is the guy they have accused of planting the car key.


This is his argument for suing them.

"Pertinent and significant aspects of MAM are not true as represented and are, instead, false and defamatory toward plaintiff and others. Material and significant facts known to the defendants were omitted and distorted. Despite overwhelming evidence proving Avery and Dassey’s guilt and the utter absence of evidence supporting defendant’s accusations of police misconduct, defendants falsely led viewers to the inescapable conclusion that plaintiff and others planted evidence to frame Avery for Halbach’s murder. Defendants omitted, distorted, and falsified material and significant facts in an effort to portray plaintiff as a corrupt police officer who planted evidence to frame an innocent man. Defendants did so with actual malice and in order to make the film more profitable and more successful in the eyes of their peers, sacrificing and defaming the plaintiff’s character and reputation in the process."


Hopefully this will be the first of many lawsuits against the makers of this disgusting TV series.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 20, 2018, 07:05:PM
I expect Kathleen zellner will be celebrating this. This opens him up to being deposed and some serious explaining.

Don’t you think Netflix or any media platform of this nature have a team of lawyers testing all this before anything is aired. Plus he will need very deep pockets to fight this one. In my opinion he hasn’t got a chance of winning this.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 20, 2018, 07:13:PM
Some interesting things going on in this case at the moment. kZ has got world renowned dna scientist to agree to do rapid dna testing on TH bones. This is a new 2018 approved testing and was used in the recent fires in USA with an extremely high success rate. Something like 85 out of a 100 people whose cremains were tested were successfully dna’d And given back to family members for burial. The bones are supposedly with the AG. However it seems these bones that had a court order protection on them to be retained were given back to the halbach family! Whoops!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 21, 2018, 12:20:PM
Some interesting things going on in this case at the moment. kZ has got world renowned dna scientist to agree to do rapid dna testing on TH bones. This is a new 2018 approved testing and was used in the recent fires in USA with an extremely high success rate. Something like 85 out of a 100 people whose cremains were tested were successfully dna’d And given back to family members for burial. The bones are supposedly with the AG. However it seems these bones that had a court order protection on them to be retained were given back to the halbach family! Whoops!

The bones Zeller is testing were not given to the Halbach family because those bones have already been established as not being related to this case.

On page 5390 of the trial transcript. You can find the summing of the experts (including the defence, prosecution and FBI) that these bones could not be confirmed has human.

"These bones in the quarry, I'm going to take about 20 seconds to talk about, because the best anybody can say is that they are possible human. What does possible human mean? Well, it means we don't know what it is. All right. The best anthropologists in the world don't know what these bones are. Dr. Eisenberg didn't know what they were. Dr. Fairgrieve didn't know what they were, he agreed with that. And you heard a stipulation being read to you by a person by the name of Les McCurdy. Stipulation just means an agreement between the parties, that these bones, we felt it important enough, were sent out to the FBI. And Les McCurdy from the FBI determined that these bones were so degraded, that they were in such a shape that even through testing, what's called mitochondrial DNA testing, whether they are human or not, could not, even by the FBI, be determined. So the bones in the quarry are really not evidence in this case."

On page 3234 of the trial transcript. The forensic anthropologist confirm that these "suspected human" bones at the quarry had cut/slicing marks on them.

Q. When you say cuts, you saw cuts on these, are you able to be any more specific about the type of cut that you saw?
A. It was a long, linear cut, on either side of those two bones that were still in proximity. They were essentially a slicing cut on one side and a sharp slicing cut on the other side.


And so. We have a handful of 13 bones found in a pile of rubbish at the quarry, 10 of them bones confirmed animal and the other three too degraded to establish whether human or animal. These bones having knife slice marks on them, lead us to deduce that these 13 bones were all animal bones and are the remains of a meal by someone using a knife while eating them and then the leftover bones got thrown in the garbage. Hence they ended up in a quarry garbage dump area. Teresa Halbach was not an animal cut up with a knife and eaten. The bones in Avery's burn pit yielded human DNA and TH partial DNA profile. Contrary to the quarry bones that yielded nothing not even the FBI could find anything human about them.

This "New Testing" is only a stalling tactic by Zellner as she has nothing left to file and wants to keep the mental midgets that follow her on twitter happy.



Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 21, 2018, 01:37:PM
oh Well I expected you to know more about this that his lawyer. And of course she’s only requested the dna testing cos she hadn’t got anything better to do

Get real dab id shr knows they don’t have all the bones because if you do your homework you will know that out of the 9 she requested 6 were returned to the halbachs which had court protection on them.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 21, 2018, 01:43:PM
The bones have not been established as nothing to do with the case. They have everything to do with it , they couldn’t be confirmed as human because the testing wasn’t available. Now it is. What’s the problem with them being tested.

And what about the others that were not mentioned
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 23, 2018, 01:44:PM
oh Well I expected you to know more about this that his lawyer.

I know he is guilty and so does she. She is only doing this for attention and to get on TV
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 23, 2018, 01:47:PM
The bones have not been established as nothing to do with the case. They have everything to do with it , they couldn’t be confirmed as human because the testing wasn’t available. Now it is. What’s the problem with them being tested.

And what about the others that were not mentioned

The FBI done mitochondrial DNA testing on them back in 2007. They could not find any trace of human DNA.

The knife slice marks on the bones in question leads us to deduce that they are leftovers of a butchered animal consumed by humans.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 23, 2018, 08:25:PM
Oh for goodness sake David, you really have hit a low point haven’t you. YOU don’t know if hes guilty or innocent and neither do I or anyone else. Unless you were there but I think I can safely assume you weren’t.

I don’t know if he is guilty or innocent but I do believe he didn’t receive a fair trial and it is a very interesting case. It is interesting to see what’s happening now.

You seem to want to just argue with everyone because you believe you are right. You are definitely not keeping up with what’s really going on in this case.

Even you can’t beleive that Andy colburn Has a chance in hell of wining his case!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 24, 2018, 02:11:PM
Oh for goodness sake David, you really have hit a low point haven’t you. YOU don’t know if hes guilty or innocent and neither do I or anyone else. Unless you were there but I think I can safely assume you weren’t.


You dont need to be present in order to know what happened. Thats the whole point of forensics


The victims bones and ashes are found both in his burn barrel and hidden behind his garage also.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery taking the bones out the bun bit breaking them with a shovel then hiding them behind his garage. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

An accomplice to the crime describes Steven Avery shooting her to the left of her head. This was before any forensic anthropologist would testify that this is indeed what happened.

The self confessed accomplice has his jeans covered in bleach from the night in question. Large amounts of bleach residue was found in Steven Avery's garage.

Also in the same garage is a fired bullet that was discovered containing the same DNA as the victims bones behind Steven Avery's garage.

The bullet with the victims DNA on was proven to have been fired from the rife that is hung up on the wall in Steven Avery's bedroom.

Hidden behind a bookshelf in Steven Avery's bedroom was the car keys to the victims car.
The victims car is located on Steven Avery's property right next to his old red Jeep.

Steven Avery while driving his Pontiac got bloodstains on the front console due to a cut on his right finger.

Similar Bloodstains were also found inside the victims car. The DNA is traced back to the same person who spilled his blood in his Pontiac around the same time, - Steven Avery.

The victims car was found to have had the power cables pulled from the car battery. Hence someone involved in the victims death must have opened the car hood at some stage. DNA analysis on the hood latch comes back as a match to non other than..... Steven Avery.

The victims phone records show the last person Teresa spoke to was Steven Avery. Auto-trader staff say that Steven would always call them asking for Teresa and that he would greet her wearing nothing but towel. Yet during the 5 day search for this missing person he makes no effort to try and call her.

While Steven does not bother calling this missing person he has an affection for. Witnesses report his accomplice Brendan suddenly being depressed and crying to himself.

The victim met up with Steven Avery as usual to take photos of a vehicle he wanted to sell in Auto Trader. Yet the vehicle never ended up on the front display like all his other cars with Auto Trader ads did. Bits of the victims camera was later recovered from Steven Averys burn barrel.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 24, 2018, 05:12:PM
And if you were keeping up you would know that all that evidence has been refuted very well.

The bones from the quarry were said to not be human but in 2011 were given back to the halbach family for burial. That is a violation of preservation of biological evidence.

Funny how DA Ghan helped introduce this law but has violated it anyhow.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 24, 2018, 05:14:PM
You keep quoting stuff from the original trial. We are at appeals process now so that refuted evidence is what we are supposed to be debating. If you think that the original trial was fair and correct in thier conclusion then what exactly is your point.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on December 24, 2018, 05:17:PM
You will also know there is an audio of barb Brendan’s mum saying she didn’t see a fire that night.the bleached jeans were stained on a different occasion.

Brendan dassey im convinced was coerced into that confession. Poor sod didn’t know what hit him
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 24, 2018, 05:58:PM
You will also know there is an audio of barb Brendan’s mum saying she didn’t see a fire that night.the bleached jeans were stained on a different occasion.

Brendan dassey im convinced was coerced into that confession. Poor sod didn’t know what hit him


Incase you don't already know, Brendan Dassey does not dispute the jeans he was wearing that night got stained with bleach from cleaning the garage floor. The only change in his story now is that he was cleaning up engine oil instead of Teresa's blood.


As for Steven Avery's bonfire

https://streamable.com/bhlp5 (https://streamable.com/bhlp5)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2018, 08:52:PM

Incase you don't already know, Brendan Dassey does not dispute the jeans he was wearing that night got stained with bleach from cleaning the garage floor. The only change in his story now is that he was cleaning up engine oil instead of Teresa's blood.


As for Steven Avery's bonfire

https://streamable.com/bhlp5 (https://streamable.com/bhlp5)

His jeans could have gotten stained with bleach at ANY time.

Watched the video, what about it?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 02, 2019, 12:31:PM
His jeans could have gotten stained with bleach at ANY time.


Brendan disagrees.

On page 1105 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript you can find confirmation that the Jeans Brendan was wearing that night had bleach stains on them and Brendan confirms how the bleach got there.

Q: Well, these are the bleached jeans, Exhibit 58;
right?
A: Uh, that's true. Yes.
Q: Okay. You got them out of his house?
A: That's true. Yes.
Q: He told you they were there?
A: He did.
Q: He willingly gave them to you?
A: Absolutely.
Q: And he told you that he got bleach on there
because he cleaned up some stuff, at Steve's
request, in the garage?
A: That's true.


Brendan also describes were exactly he cleaned up the victims blood.

WIEGERT: How much bleach, no let me go back. How much blood was there on the
floor, quite a bit?
BRENDAN: (nods “yes”) mm huh.
WIEGERT: Where would it have been?
BRENDAN: Like by the lawn mower and where the jeeps’ tire was.
WIEGERT: So if you had to say, some dimensions like 2 feet by 2 feet, 10 feet by 10 feet
how much blood do you think was there?
BRENDAN: By 2 x 2.
WIEGERT: 2x2 (Brendan nods "yes”)
FASSBENDER: By the rear wheel of the jeep you said?
BRENDAN: Yeah, (nods “yes”)


On page 436 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript, you will find confirmation of a three by four foot luminol reaction exactly where Brendan said he cleaned up the blood.

Q: In -- In the picture, urn, behind the lawnmower,
is where you indicated was that three-by-four
foot area that seemed to be entirely in the
glow --
A: Yes.
Q:-- of luminol?
A: Yes.


Then we have Steven Avery coroborating this in a phone call from his GF in prison. (Notice how Steven fails to mention his bonfire)

(https://image.ibb.co/h7N3sf/phonelog.jpg)

And so

They find a bullet in the garage with the victims DNA on exactly where Brendan said he saw his uncle shoot her. The bullet was later shown to be fired from the same weapon Brendan said his uncle used. They find a luminol recation in the exact spot where Brendan said he cleaned up the victims blood. All this took place less than 30ft away from where her remains where found. Brendan said he also used Teresa clothes to wipe up her blood from the garage before throwing them into the bonfire. They find jean rivets from Daisy Fuentes clothing in the bonfire bit. Tereasa's sister would later testifty at the trial that Teresa wore Daisy Fuentes jeans.


Watched the video, what about it?

Notsure seemed ignorant of the fact Steven Avery had a bonfire the night Teresa vanished.

Steven Avery now admits he had a bonfire that night contrary to his police interviews.

https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: IndigoJ on January 06, 2019, 08:28:AM
Brendan disagrees.

On page 1105 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript you can find confirmation that the Jeans Brendan was wearing that night had bleach stains on them and Brendan confirms how the bleach got there.

Q: Well, these are the bleached jeans, Exhibit 58;
right?
A: Uh, that's true. Yes.
Q: Okay. You got them out of his house?
A: That's true. Yes.
Q: He told you they were there?
A: He did.
Q: He willingly gave them to you?
A: Absolutely.
Q: And he told you that he got bleach on there
because he cleaned up some stuff, at Steve's
request, in the garage?
A: That's true.


Brendan also describes were exactly he cleaned up the victims blood.

WIEGERT: How much bleach, no let me go back. How much blood was there on the
floor, quite a bit?
BRENDAN: (nods “yes”) mm huh.
WIEGERT: Where would it have been?
BRENDAN: Like by the lawn mower and where the jeeps’ tire was.
WIEGERT: So if you had to say, some dimensions like 2 feet by 2 feet, 10 feet by 10 feet
how much blood do you think was there?
BRENDAN: By 2 x 2.
WIEGERT: 2x2 (Brendan nods "yes”)
FASSBENDER: By the rear wheel of the jeep you said?
BRENDAN: Yeah, (nods “yes”)


On page 436 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript, you will find confirmation of a three by four foot luminol reaction exactly where Brendan said he cleaned up the blood.

Q: In -- In the picture, urn, behind the lawnmower,
is where you indicated was that three-by-four
foot area that seemed to be entirely in the
glow --
A: Yes.
Q:-- of luminol?
A: Yes.


Then we have Steven Avery coroborating this in a phone call from his GF in prison. (Notice how Steven fails to mention his bonfire)

(https://image.ibb.co/h7N3sf/phonelog.jpg)

And so

They find a bullet in the garage with the victims DNA on exactly where Brendan said he saw his uncle shoot her. The bullet was later shown to be fired from the same weapon Brendan said his uncle used. They find a luminol recation in the exact spot where Brendan said he cleaned up the victims blood. All this took place less than 30ft away from where her remains where found. Brendan said he also used Teresa clothes to wipe up her blood from the garage before throwing them into the bonfire. They find jean rivets from Daisy Fuentes clothing in the bonfire bit. Tereasa's sister would later testifty at the trial that Teresa wore Daisy Fuentes jeans.

Notsure seemed ignorant of the fact Steven Avery had a bonfire the night Teresa vanished.

Steven Avery now admits he had a bonfire that night contrary to his police interviews.

https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)

If you could ask Brendan Dassey's lawyers a question , what would it be?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 01:36:PM
Brendan disagrees.

On page 1105 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript you can find confirmation that the Jeans Brendan was wearing that night had bleach stains on them and Brendan confirms how the bleach got there.

Q: Well, these are the bleached jeans, Exhibit 58;
right?
A: Uh, that's true. Yes.
Q: Okay. You got them out of his house?
A: That's true. Yes.
Q: He told you they were there?
A: He did.
Q: He willingly gave them to you?
A: Absolutely.
Q: And he told you that he got bleach on there
because he cleaned up some stuff, at Steve's
request, in the garage?
A: That's true.


Brendan also describes were exactly he cleaned up the victims blood.

WIEGERT: How much bleach, no let me go back. How much blood was there on the
floor, quite a bit?
BRENDAN: (nods “yes”) mm huh.
WIEGERT: Where would it have been?
BRENDAN: Like by the lawn mower and where the jeeps’ tire was.
WIEGERT: So if you had to say, some dimensions like 2 feet by 2 feet, 10 feet by 10 feet
how much blood do you think was there?
BRENDAN: By 2 x 2.
WIEGERT: 2x2 (Brendan nods "yes”)
FASSBENDER: By the rear wheel of the jeep you said?
BRENDAN: Yeah, (nods “yes”)


On page 436 of Brendan Dasseys trial transcript, you will find confirmation of a three by four foot luminol reaction exactly where Brendan said he cleaned up the blood.

Q: In -- In the picture, urn, behind the lawnmower,
is where you indicated was that three-by-four
foot area that seemed to be entirely in the
glow --
A: Yes.
Q:-- of luminol?
A: Yes.


Then we have Steven Avery coroborating this in a phone call from his GF in prison. (Notice how Steven fails to mention his bonfire)

(https://image.ibb.co/h7N3sf/phonelog.jpg)

And so

They find a bullet in the garage with the victims DNA on exactly where Brendan said he saw his uncle shoot her. The bullet was later shown to be fired from the same weapon Brendan said his uncle used. They find a luminol recation in the exact spot where Brendan said he cleaned up the victims blood. All this took place less than 30ft away from where her remains where found. Brendan said he also used Teresa clothes to wipe up her blood from the garage before throwing them into the bonfire. They find jean rivets from Daisy Fuentes clothing in the bonfire bit. Tereasa's sister would later testifty at the trial that Teresa wore Daisy Fuentes jeans.

Notsure seemed ignorant of the fact Steven Avery had a bonfire the night Teresa vanished.

Steven Avery now admits he had a bonfire that night contrary to his police interviews.

https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)

None of his statements can be relied upon because it is clear he was fed information.

Not really surprising that the floor reacted to luminol given that they were fond of hunting.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 06, 2019, 04:00:PM
Not really surprising that the floor reacted to luminol given that they were fond of hunting.

Not really suprising that the floor recated with luminol given the bullet fragment with the same dna as the victims bones that were only some 30 feet away. And the person who pointed out where he cleaned up the blood is exactly where the luminol reaction is.

None of his statements can be relied upon because it is clear he was fed information.

His statements contain facts not know to law enforcement. It corroborates pysical evidence and other details that are yet to be uncovered. That is all that matters.


Another interesting point is that Brendan told the police that he done this to "see what sex felt like"

This coroborates with what Steven Avery told Joseph Evans.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 06, 2019, 06:26:PM
Not a single drop of blood was found on Brendan’s footwear or jeans. Bleach doesn’t get rid of hemaglobiin. There was no murder in the garage or trailers. There is no way they could of done a cleanup after how kratz suggested she was murdered. Stabbed raped tortured blah blah. A small amount of her bones were found in dassey and averys barrels. God knows why they were split in several barrels. Bones were also found elsewhere! But dismissed by kratz as not human.     But funnily enough were given back to the halbach family as hers to bury.

I’m bored with you and the sources you keep posting.

Brendan’s confession was coerced no doubt IMO

Steven Avery is like to see him have a fair trial
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 06:35:PM
Not really suprising that the floor recated with luminol given the bullet fragment with the same dna as the victims bones that were only some 30 feet away. And the person who pointed out where he cleaned up the blood is exactly where the luminol reaction is.

His statements contain facts not know to law enforcement. It corroborates pysical evidence and other details that are yet to be uncovered. That is all that matters.


Another interesting point is that Brendan told the police that he done this to "see what sex felt like"

This coroborates with what Steven Avery told Joseph Evans.

You're becoming repetitive. DNA and bullets can be planted. That bullet fragment also also had fine wood splinters embedded - where did they some from?

I think whatever Joseph Evans said can be discounted - it was after the fact and he's hardly a reliable source!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 06:46:PM
Not a single drop of blood was found on Brendan’s footwear or jeans. Bleach doesn’t get rid of hemaglobiin. There was no murder in the garage or trailers. There is no way they could of done a cleanup after how kratz suggested she was murdered. Stabbed raped tortured blah blah. A small amount of her bones were found in dassey and averys barrels. God knows why they were split in several barrels. Bones were also found elsewhere! But dismissed by kratz as not human.     But funnily enough were given back to the halbach family as hers to bury.

I’m bored with you and the sources you keep posting.

Brendan’s confession was coerced no doubt IMO

Steven Avery is like to see him have a fair trial

We only ever get snippets when David posts a source - no link so you can read the whole thing yourself. For instance, Joseph Evans also said that Avery told him that the police tricked Brendan into a confession. The guy wrote the letter in 2016 - how on earth can that be relied upon?

http://www.viralthread.com/steven-avery-confesses-to-murdering-teresa-halbach-according-to-fellow-prisoners/
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 06, 2019, 07:01:PM
You're becoming repetitive. DNA and bullets can be planted. That bullet fragment also also had fine wood splinters embedded - where did they some from?

The police cannot have planted any DNA because Steven Avery had destroyed her body to such extent the bones never yielded a more complete DNA profile like the bullet did. They had no opportunity to do so.

If you want to argue that the crime lab planted the DNA from the pep smear onto the bullet to make corroborative proof of Brendan’s account, that’s just nuts.

I think whatever Joseph Evans said can be discounted - it was after the fact and he's hardly a reliable source!

Joe Evans is still in prison and thus cannot research the case like we do. Talking to Steven Avery is the only way he could have obtained such detailed and accurate version of events. He never gained anything from this either.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 07:12:PM
The police cannot have planted any DNA because Steven Avery had destroyed her body to such extent the bones never yielded a more complete DNA profile like the bullet did. They had no opportunity to do so.

If you want to argue that the crime lab planted the DNA from the pep smear onto the bullet to make corroborative proof of Brendan’s account, that’s just nuts.

Joe Evans is still in prison and thus cannot research the case like we do. Talking to Steven Avery is the only way he could have obtained such detailed and accurate version of events. He never gained anything from this either.

I didn't say the police planted the bullet and why would I suggest the lab did it?  That would be like trying to argue that the blood in the Bamber silencer came from the soaking underwear - NUTS! But there would be sources of DNA in her flat. Like I said, where did the wood splinters come from? A  forensic scientist stated that the splinters are consistent with it having been fired into the door - something Avery used to do.

Yes Evans is in prison, he's not on the moon though!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 06, 2019, 07:27:PM
We only ever get snippets when David posts a source - no link so you can read the whole thing yourself. For instance, Joseph Evans also said that Avery told him that the police tricked Brendan into a confession. The guy wrote the letter in 2016 - how on earth can that be relied upon?

http://www.viralthread.com/steven-avery-confesses-to-murdering-teresa-halbach-according-to-fellow-prisoners/

The whole Joseph Evans letter can be read here. Its rather disturbing.

https://imgur.com/a/KRZkp (https://imgur.com/a/KRZkp)


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 06, 2019, 07:39:PM
Like I said, where did the wood splinters come from? A  forensic scientist stated that the splinters are consistent with it having been fired into the door - something Avery used to do.



The garage was made out of wood. The bullet exited Teresa and was then on a collision course with the garage walls (all made from wood)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 07:45:PM

The garage was made out of wood. The bullet exited Teresa and was then on a collision course with the garage walls (all made from wood)

I think the forensic scientist probably thought of that David - HE SAID it was consistent with bring fired into the wood - not just bouncing off it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2019, 07:46:PM
The whole Joseph Evans letter can be read here. Its rather disturbing.

https://imgur.com/a/KRZkp (https://imgur.com/a/KRZkp)

Cheers - will read it later.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 07, 2019, 06:03:AM
We only ever get snippets when David posts a source - no link so you can read the whole thing yourself. For instance, Joseph Evans also said that Avery told him that the police tricked Brendan into a confession. The guy wrote the letter in 2016 - how on earth can that be relied upon?

http://www.viralthread.com/steven-avery-confesses-to-murdering-teresa-halbach-according-to-fellow-prisoners/


Only David would quote an informant as reliable.

This should be against the law.

It doesn’t even sound the way Stephen would speak. His vocabulary is very limited.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 07, 2019, 06:20:AM
every piece of evidence David was found by Lenk and colburn who should not have been anywhere near that crime scene.

If you had been wrongly convicted once by a certain police department would you want them investigating you on a second if you maintained your innocence. We were told in press conferences that they would not be involved yet it was them that found the evidence.

Something is off with this David and a new trial should be given. There are too many things that don’t add up.

America locks up more people than anywhere else in the world and the sentences are extremely harsh. Prosecutors are out to get as many people convicted as possible to make a name for themselves, many do not disclose much of the evidence and even when they are found out and the person is exonerated they get promoted to judges etc.

In some states the corruption is rife. It really is quite feasible for this to have been a set up if you read enough.

Having said that some states are now offering open files so both sides see all evidence. This came about because of the corruption and innocents going to prison.

There is a very large portion of prison inmates in America that are thought to be innocent but they have very little chance of getting out because they don’t have the money to fight it so will rot.

Brendan read the book kiss the girls a week before his interview and was getting a lot of stuff from that. You cannot possibly agree that Brendan being interviewed without a parent or lawyer present was right given his low Iq . He thought he was going home and asked if he could go back to school to finish a project afterwards.

It’s people like you that cannot and will not look at things from a different perspective that put people in prison and do everything they can to keep them there because there egos won’t let them do anything different.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 07, 2019, 10:19:AM
Only David would quote an informant as reliable.

This should be against the law.

It doesn’t even sound the way Stephen would speak. His vocabulary is very limited.


Its reliable because it matches the physical evidence and contains the same things Brendan told the police. For example, that this was his first sexual experience.

Ask yourself this - What other feasible way is there for Joseph Evans to obtain this information while in Jail other than from Steven Avery?

Do you really think he got hold of Brendans interview videos and Steven Averys court documents and carefully put all this together? Why bother he has nothing to gain from doing this. Avery talked about his crime and this man is trying to warn the public about the TV show.

Anyway. There is no question to Avery's guilt and the proof is all there for you to see. If you dont want to see it then that is down to you.

There are many small clues in his behaviour also.

Here he is asked when he last used his burn pit. He stays silent for 30 seconds and cant bring himself to admit he had a bonfire after Teresa vanished. He then lies saying he last used it before Teresa arrived.

https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)

In the early days of the missing persons investigation when people were still hoping to find Teresa alive and BEFORE any crime was reported he was already claiming the police were framing him. Framing him for what? He knows Teresa is dead because he killed her. He knows police will uncover evidence against him and he is already using this conspiracy allegation because he knows he has been caught.

https://streamable.com/wh9ph
 (https://streamable.com/wh9ph)


 
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2019, 12:12:PM

Its reliable because it matches the physical evidence and contains the same things Brendan told the police. For example, that this was his first sexual experience.

Ask yourself this - What other feasible way is there for Joseph Evans to obtain this information while in Jail other than from Steven Avery?

Do you really think he got hold of Brendans interview videos and Steven Averys court documents and carefully put all this together? Why bother he has nothing to gain from doing this. Avery talked about his crime and this man is trying to warn the public about the TV show.

Anyway. There is no question to Avery's guilt and the proof is all there for you to see. If you dont want to see it then that is down to you.

There are many small clues in his behaviour also.

Here he is asked when he last used his burn pit. He stays silent for 30 seconds and cant bring himself to admit he had a bonfire after Teresa vanished. He then lies saying he last used it before Teresa arrived.

https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)

In the early days of the missing persons investigation when people were still hoping to find Teresa alive and BEFORE any crime was reported he was already claiming the police were framing him. Framing him for what? He knows Teresa is dead because he killed her. He knows police will uncover evidence against him and he is already using this conspiracy allegation because he knows he has been caught.

https://streamable.com/wh9ph
 (https://streamable.com/wh9ph)

I have read Evan's letter - do you SERIOUSLY believe that Avery would tell this guy everything on their first meeting? Bullshit! Evans was free for 5 years prior to his conviction for killing his wife in cold blood and he had plenty of time to go to the authorities with his story but it just happened to coincide with his appeal (so much for 'no motive'. Seriously David, even you have to admit this is tripe! Love the bit where he's supposed to have told Avery that he must tell the authorities that his nephew is innocent ::).
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2019, 12:23:PM
https://streamable.com/zm6q0 (https://streamable.com/zm6q0)
https://streamable.com/wh9ph
 (https://streamable.com/wh9ph)

Listen to you own links again, even the reporter states that Avery seems to be the center of the investigation so why wouldn't he be defensive? The fact that he lied about the fires (if innocent) isn't surprising if he thought they were trying to trap him - having previously being railroaded by the same police force in the past.

Notsure is correct, those two officers should NEVER have been allowed anywhere near the crime scene!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 07, 2019, 12:50:PM
The fire started in a burn barrel and were 2/3 feet high, no one really mentioned a fire until later on so I believe there may be a mix up with date of the fire. Miraculously the flames were over 10feet high at trial. Scott Gary has has been caught out in many lies .
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 07, 2019, 01:02:PM
I have read Evan's letter - do you SERIOUSLY believe that Avery would tell this guy everything on their first meeting? Bullshit!

Evans does not claim he "told him everything on his first meeting"


Evans was free for 5 years prior to his conviction for killing his wife in cold blood and he had plenty of time to go to the authorities with his story

Evans killed his wife in 2008 and was convicted in 2009.

but it just happened to coincide with his appeal (so much for 'no motive'.

Evans appeal was denied in August of 2015. Evans released this letter in 2016 because everyone started thinking Avery was innocent after the TV show.

Both men were already convicted of their crimes. Evans could not strike a deal to testify against Avery for a lesser sentence because Avery's trial was already over and Evans already has his sentence.

If both Avery and Evans were in Jail waiting trial and prosecutors gave Evans a deal to say this at Avery's trial then that would be valid argument for motive. But that is not the case here.

Seriously David, even you have to admit this is tripe!

No

Love the bit where he's supposed to have told Avery that he must tell the authorities that his nephew is innocent ::).

He did not say that. He said Avery should tell the police that "Brendan didnt kill her" because Avery told him that he killed Teresa himself before Brendan came over and Brendan didnt realise until Steven told him "She's dead you idiot" Then Brendan is not guilty of murder. That makes him an accessory after the fact.

I think you should read the whole thing again.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 07, 2019, 01:15:PM
Listen to you own links again, even the reporter states that Avery seems to be the center of the investigation so why wouldn't he be defensive? The fact that he lied about the fires (if innocent) isn't surprising if he thought they were trying to trap him - having previously being railroaded by the same police force in the past.

Nobody knows what has happened to Teresa at this point and no one is accusing anyone of foul play. He should not have anything to be defensive about.

Notsure is correct, those two officers should NEVER have been allowed anywhere near the crime scene!

Notsure is wrong. Calumet county sheriff assigned those two to search the property on that day due to a lack of staff that day. Those two officers from Manitowoc county did not tip toe under the cover of darkness with out permission as MAM portrayed them.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 07, 2019, 01:24:PM
I have nothing further to add to this discussion. If you want to ignore the proof of his guilt and believe this guy is innocent. then I wont spoil it for you anymore.

I have explained all the evidence to you. Wont be repeating it. I have better things to do. 
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2019, 02:52:PM
Evans does not claim he "told him everything on his first meeting"


Evans killed his wife in 2008 and was convicted in 2009.

Evans appeal was denied in August of 2015. Evans released this letter in 2016 because everyone started thinking Avery was innocent after the TV show.

Both men were already convicted of their crimes. Evans could not strike a deal to testify against Avery for a lesser sentence because Avery's trial was already over and Evans already has his sentence.

If both Avery and Evans were in Jail waiting trial and prosecutors gave Evans a deal to say this at Avery's trial then that would be valid argument for motive. But that is not the case here.

No

He did not say that. He said Avery should tell the police that "Brendan didnt kill her" because Avery told him that he killed Teresa himself before Brendan came over and Brendan didnt realise until Steven told him "She's dead you idiot" Then Brendan is not guilty of murder. That makes him an accessory after the fact.

I think you should read the whole thing again.

He said that on the FIRST meeting, Avery told him he was guilty and that Dassey was innocent. The quote you posted yesterday was part of the same 'confession'. This all happened on the recreation period over 2 hours on their FIRST meeting!

Regardless - he had several years to read all about Avery before even killing his wife!

His account of what Avery told him is at odds with what Dassey told police and what you have been posting previously so how is this confession remotely reliable?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on January 07, 2019, 02:53:PM
I have nothing further to add to this discussion. If you want to ignore the proof of his guilt and believe this guy is innocent. then I wont spoil it for you anymore.

I have explained all the evidence to you. Wont be repeating it. I have better things to do.

Good! But no one needs any lessons from you dear!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 07, 2019, 06:46:PM
Phew ! Thank god for that!
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on August 23, 2019, 08:26:PM
There is another documentary series about Steven Avery coming out in October. This one is pro guilt.

Such TV show is long overdue, casual viewers will get the other side of the story (the factual version of events).

https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/ (https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on August 23, 2019, 08:27:PM
There is another documentary series about Steven Avery coming out in October. This one is pro guilt.

Such TV show is long overdue, casual viewers will get the other side of the story (the factual version of events).

https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/ (https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEV4aRAkuh4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEV4aRAkuh4)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on August 23, 2019, 10:05:PM
There is another documentary series about Steven Avery coming out in October. This one is pro guilt.

Such TV show is long overdue, casual viewers will get the other side of the story (the factual version of events).

https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/ (https://eu.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/02/steven-avery-convicting-murderer-contrary-making-murderer/1442437002/)

The side you support you mean?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on August 23, 2019, 10:07:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEV4aRAkuh4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEV4aRAkuh4)

I'll watch it, unlike you who refused to watch the second netflix series then proceeded to sabotage the thread to discuss it.  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 12, 2019, 05:32:PM
I have just gone over Avery's confession to Evans and Brendan's confessions to police.

What Steven told Evans and what Brendan told police all lines up.

It seems to me that this sick man tricked Brendan into having sex with a corpse. And Brendan was too embarrassed to admit this and too dumb to realise how important that detail would have been. And thus he was unknowingly putting his confession in the wrong context. Making it seem he was involved in the murder. When he was actually an accessory after the fact.

Brendan Dassey is actually innocent of his 1st degree murder charge. Ironically his supporters will never see it that way.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 12, 2019, 06:13:PM
I have just gone over Avery's confession to Evans and Brendan's confessions to police.

What Steven told Evans and what Brendan told police all lines up.

It seems to me that this sick man tricked Brendan into having sex with a corpse. And Brendan was too embarrassed to admit this and too dumb to realise how important that detail would have been. And thus he was unknowingly putting his confession in the wrong context. Making it seem he was involved in the murder. When he was actually an accessory after the fact.

Brendan Dassey is actually innocent of his 1st degree murder charge. Ironically his supporters will never see it that way.

i thouht you had nothing further to add.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 12, 2019, 10:00:PM
https://youtu.be/_ayBev9xZ0A
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 12, 2019, 10:04:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIYgilICY_c
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 13, 2019, 03:29:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DmNxQKSSdQ
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 13, 2019, 08:26:PM
Nugnug you have already realised Avery's claims of innocence are ridiculous.

i can see both sides on face of it hes cliams of innocence do sound absurd but at the same time how do you explian the lack of fronsic trace evdence in his trailer.

We know he had five days to clean up his trailer. We know he was using his carpet cleaning machine over that weekend and we know he returned it to Walmart that weekend. Instead of burning or hiding the machine he exchanged it for a new one.

We know the forensic tests in his trailer were only preliminary in nature. They never thoroughly examined it. Once they find enough evidence of someone's guilt they don't continue wasting tax payers money looking for more.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 13, 2019, 09:15:PM
but when i first looked atthe jeremy bamber case his cliams of innocence sounded absurd bt when i actully looked closer they sounded perfectly plausble.

so far i havent really got into case.

i havent watched the documentrys so i cant really coment on them.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 13, 2019, 09:22:PM
but when i first looked atthe jeremy bamber case his cliams of innocence sounded absurd bt when i actully looked closer they sounded perfectly plausble.

so far i havent really got into case.

i havent watched the documentrys so i cant really coment on them.

Bamber and Avery cases have no similarities. Other than the fact they are two prisoners protesting innocence.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 14, 2019, 02:25:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c550YMovfQo
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 14, 2019, 02:38:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJoT67Nk010
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 14, 2019, 06:48:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJoT67Nk010

Why do you keep posting links to this guy? Its obvious that all he has done is watched Netflix and assumed its reliable. I actually pity him for making these videos.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 14, 2019, 07:51:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCT6vKRcbTI
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 15, 2019, 04:18:AM
I have just gone over Avery's confession to Evans and Brendan's confessions to police.

What Steven told Evans and what Brendan told police all lines up.

It seems to me that this sick man tricked Brendan into having sex with a corpse. And Brendan was too embarrassed to admit this and too dumb to realise how important that detail would have been. And thus he was unknowingly putting his confession in the wrong context. Making it seem he was involved in the murder. When he was actually an accessory after the fact.

Brendan Dassey is actually innocent of his 1st degree murder charge. Ironically his supporters will never see it that way.

Its no question to me that Avery is guilty. What I am questioning is the authenticity of the Evans confession letter. So -

How did Joseph Evans know that Teresa was shot five times while Brendan was not watching?

Brendan said

"he shot her five times and while he was doing that I wasn’t looking because I can’t watch that stuff"

Evans said

"when Brendan had went outside of the garage to keep watch, Steve had said that's when he had taken his .22 rifle and shot Teresa twice in the head, then in the heart and in the chest area, and and then in the vagina"

Both these accounts have Teresa being shot in the garage five times at one point with Brendan not watching. Could it be that Brendan told Steve he went out to keep watch because he didn't want to watch that stuff as per his statement above?

Now if someone was to argue that Joseph Evans got hold of Brendan's confessions from behind bars to construct this, that does not work because there are numerous things in Brendan's confessions that don't appear in Avery's alleged confession to Evans. Which, as fate would have it, Brendan admits to his mother that not everything that he said he done to Teresa was true, only some of it.  :o

"Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."
"


Evans said that Steven Avery was raping Teresa for an hour and a half before he called Brendan over. Now Brendan claims Steven Avery never told him that he had sex with her. But Brendan does say Steven Avery was very sweaty when he entered the trailer.

"He said that while Teresa was just laying there, he had sex with her over and over, then untied her and turned her over on to her stomach and proceeded to sodomized her. Steve said that he had Teresa in the bedroom performing his sexual acts to her for a good hour and a half."

If that is what Steven done, then that explains why he was so sweaty as Brendan reported when he saw him. Brendan gave no explanation for him being sweaty and that coincides with Avery telling Evans that he had not called Brendan over yet.

Evans wrote

"Steve said that Brendan promised to remain quiet and keep his mouth shut to everyone, then Brendan left the fire and went home. Steve said that he had remained out there by the fire for a few more hours and as it was dying down"

This corroborates Blaine Dassey's account of him seeing Steven Avery at 11:30pm alone by the bonfire alone.

Evans then wrote

"Steve had went on to tell me that he had taken some more items such as clothing of his, two rings of Teresa's that she was wearing at the time that he had killed her and a necklace that she was wearing as well that he had taken off of her, and also the kitchen knife and the shovel that he had used up to the Crivitz, WI area. "

Now we know Steven Avery was in Crivitz shortly after the murder because that's where he was when the news reporters interviewed him in 2005. I don't find it plausible that this guy would remember that insignificant detail from one news mention five years ago.

This is either a very carefully engineered ruse or its a genuine account. I know what I think.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 17, 2019, 07:29:AM
Not only do prison records corroborate Evans account. According to authorities there are more alleged prison confessions from Steven Avery.


"Evans says he and Avery struck up a friendship while both were serving their sentences at Wisconsin Secured Prison Facility located in Boscobel. Online Department of Corrections records show Evans and Avery were both housed at the Southwestern Wisconsin prison back in 2010 when Evans says these conversations took place."

"Then, four years later, in March of 2014, Evan writes and online records confirm, he and Avery were transferred on the same day to Waupun Correctional.”

"Law enforcement says letters like the one Evans wrote, claiming Avery has confessed to murder, have come in over the years. The letters are always turned over to the State Attorney General’s Office and investigations are conducted. The Attorney General’s office says it has no comment on those investigations. And Avery’s attorney, Kathleen Zellner, did not respond to requests for comment."
[/size]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170206102540/https://www.wbay.com/2017/02/01/convicted-felon-claims-steven-avery-confessed-to-him-about-murdering-teresa-halbach/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20170206102540/https://www.wbay.com/2017/02/01/convicted-felon-claims-steven-avery-confessed-to-him-about-murdering-teresa-halbach/)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 17, 2019, 11:12:AM
Evans was questioned by a news outlet not long after his letter. Evans said -

“All I know is that Steven told me step-by-step over time all that he did, in detail. I believe Steven did it because he told me he did it.”

I believe Evans.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 18, 2019, 12:36:PM
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=xidjcTrvTC16IQ4Y5T6s7QvuQkZ8MTU2ODg5Mjg1MkAxNTY4ODA2NDUy&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Famp%2Fs%2Famp.postcrescent.com%2Famp%2F82586402&event=video_description&v=MO58BUiSlJY
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 18, 2019, 05:43:PM
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=xidjcTrvTC16IQ4Y5T6s7QvuQkZ8MTU2ODg5Mjg1MkAxNTY4ODA2NDUy&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Famp%2Fs%2Famp.postcrescent.com%2Famp%2F82586402&event=video_description&v=MO58BUiSlJY

Steven Avery's eyes prove he's guilty? No


That's what proves him guilty.  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 18, 2019, 11:36:PM
Here is another interesting point. Teresa had no Tattoos, investigators knew this. And Bluffed Brendan with the claim that she did have Tattoos. Yet he does not tell them that.

"FASSBENDER: did she have any scars, marks', tattoos, stuff like that, that you can remember?

BRENDAN: I don’t remember any tattoos. "


-------------------------------

"FASSBENDER: OK. (pause) We know that Teresa had a, a tattoo on her stomach, do you remember that?

BRENDAN: (shakes head “no”) uh uh"



So much for telling the police what they wanted to hear.


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 20, 2019, 12:57:PM
Steven Avery's eyes prove he's guilty? No

    Victims bones in his burn pit.

    Victims clothes in his burn pit.

    Victims stuff in his burn barrel.

    Him having a bonfire in his burn pit the day the victim died.

    His blood in the victims car resembling the same blood in his own car (showing he has driven both)

    Murder weapon hung up above his bed.

    Victims car keys in his trailer.

    Victims DNA on the bullet found his garage where an eye witness saw him shoot her.

    Brendan admitting they both raped and killed her along with details only the guilty party could know.

    Avery calling her on *67 number twice before the murder and once after the murder without the  *67 number showing he was trying to create an alibi.

    The Van Avery got the victim to photograph not being on display for sale because Avery knows there will be no Auto trader advert because he killed the photographer.


That's what proves him guilty.  ::)

anyone would know the details if the police told them the details.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 20, 2019, 02:16:PM
anyone would know the details if the police told them the details.

The police cannot tell him details they don't know.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 20, 2019, 02:23:PM
Here is another interesting point. Teresa had no Tattoos, investigators knew this. And Bluffed Brendan with the claim that she did have Tattoos. Yet he does not tell them that.

"FASSBENDER: did she have any scars, marks', tattoos, stuff like that, that you can remember?

BRENDAN: I don’t remember any tattoos. "


-------------------------------

"FASSBENDER: OK. (pause) We know that Teresa had a, a tattoo on her stomach, do you remember that?

BRENDAN: (shakes head “no”) uh uh"



So much for telling the police what they wanted to hear.


and wheres that from
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 20, 2019, 02:27:PM

and wheres that from

Where is what from?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 20, 2019, 09:21:PM
https://youtu.be/AjQDt_HURQQ
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 21, 2019, 01:31:AM
https://youtu.be/AjQDt_HURQQ

Earl Avery saw Teresa come to ASL taking photos that day.

Bobby Dassey saw Teresa there also.

Steven Avery admits Teresa was there that day, but claims she left.

We know she never left because her bones were in his burn pit and her car keys in his house.

What does that video prove? Are you smoking crack or what?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 21, 2019, 02:32:AM
https://streamable.com/kfrk3 (https://streamable.com/kfrk3)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 21, 2019, 02:15:PM
Earl Avery saw Teresa come to ASL taking photos that day.

Bobby Dassey saw Teresa there also.

Steven Avery admits Teresa was there that day, but claims she left.

We know she never left because her bones were in his burn pit and her car keys in his house.

What does that video prove? Are you smoking crack or what?

i am not trying to prove anything i am just posting a video.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 21, 2019, 04:09:PM
https://streamable.com/kfrk3 (https://streamable.com/kfrk3)

it clicked on it its not playing.

thats not a confesion thats a cop talking about the confession.

a policeman cliaming he dident corce the suspect thats hardly convincing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 12:17:PM
it clicked on it its not playing.

https://streamable.com/kfrk3 (https://streamable.com/kfrk3)

It’s working now.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 12:32:PM
it conists of policeman saying he dident coerce a suspecct hardly. convincing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 12:51:PM
The police cannot tell him details they don't know.

you only there word they dident know.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 01:14:PM
Brendan didn’t remember seeing any Tattoos because Teresa never had Tattoos. Hence Brendan has seen Teresa naked. Disagreeing with the control question shows he is not lying.

To believe Brendan is innocent, you would also have to believe the police planted the bullet and blood in the garage. Then planted Averys DNA on the RAV4 after Brendan gave them more information.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 01:20:PM
Brendan didn’t remember seeing any Tattoos because Teresa never had Tattoos. Hence Brendan has seen Teresa naked. Disagreeing with the control question shows he is not lying.

To believe Brendan is innocent, you would also have to believe the police planted the bullet and blood in the garage. Then planted Averys DNA on the RAV4 after Brendan gave them more information.

and you can tell all that from a selectively edited clip of a video.

how do we know they hadent allready told him she dident have tatoos.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 01:35:PM

how do we know they hadent allready told him she dident have tatoos.

Read through all the questioning records and you won’t find them telling him that.

They deliberately told him Teresa had tattoos to see if he was lying or not.

To believe Brendan is innocent you would also have to believe the whole questioning was staged. And Brendan has never claimed such a thing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 01:41:PM
Read through all the questioning records and you won’t find them telling him that.

They deliberately told him Teresa had tattoos to see if he was lying or not.

To believe Brendan is innocent you would also have to believe the whole questioning was staged. And Brendan has never claimed such a thing.

thats if they were trying to tell him if he was lying or not.

or just trying to make him look guilty.

thats a lot of police interveiws are about it certanly happend before.

ive only got to look at him to see theres somthing wrong there he looks like he hasnt slept.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 02:04:PM
Read through all the questioning records and you won’t find them telling him that.

They deliberately told him Teresa had tattoos to see if he was lying or not.

To believe Brendan is innocent you would also have to believe the whole questioning was staged. And Brendan has never claimed such a thing.

it would be in qustioning records would it  if you trick somone into incrimantating themselves your not going to write it down and put it in the offical records are you.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 22, 2019, 02:26:PM
Read through all the questioning records and you won’t find them telling him that.

They deliberately told him Teresa had tattoos to see if he was lying or not.

To believe Brendan is innocent you would also have to believe the whole questioning was staged. And Brendan has never claimed such a thing.

Did they push him on it like they did with a lot of the questions?

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 02:31:PM
the way he looks in that interview suggests sleep depravation.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 04:34:PM
Did they push him on it like they did with a lot of the questions?

They asked him twice about the Tattoos in the first confession interview. I don’t know if it was brought up again in the other ones done in prison.

I don’t really see how the argument can be made that they pushed him on anything. They bluffed him saying they already knew everything. He then spilled the beans over him and Steve raping her, because he thought they knew that. The interviewers didn’t know that and it was not even on their agenda to investigate a rape or to elicit a rape confession.

If you watch the videos it might sometimes seem like they are pushing on stuff. But it’s actually due to Brendan being silent and slow to answer sometimes. Because he is not comfortable about the subject and understandably so.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 04:47:PM
They asked him twice about the Tattoos in the first confession interview. I don’t know if it was brought up again in the other ones done in prison.

I don’t really see how the argument can be made that they pushed him on anything. They bluffed him saying they already knew everything. He then spilled the beans over him and Steve raping her, because he thought they knew that. The interviewers didn’t know that and it was not even on their agenda to investigate a rape or to elicit a rape confession.

If you watch the videos it might sometimes seem like they are pushing on stuff. But it’s actually due to Brendan being silent and slow to answer sometimes. Because he is not comfortable about the subject and understandably so.

only they wuld know what was on there agenda.

the man is also of diminished mentel. capicity.


and nobody knows what was said off the tape.

and if he realy did what is cliamed shouldent his dna be there as well as averys.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 04:51:PM
and i might point out a confession can still be false even if it isnt coerced.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 05:08:PM
it would be in qustioning records would it  if you trick somone into incrimantating themselves your not going to write it down and put it in the offical records are you.

Who said anything about writing anything down? The records all consist of video recorded footage of his questioning. Its all on youtube now, five hours in total.

If you are saying they got him to say she had no tattoo's if they tell him she did have tattoos you are basically saying they staged the questioning. Either by turning the cameras off for rehearsals or having secret rehearsal questioning prior.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 05:10:PM
Who said anything about writing anything down? The records all consist of video recorded footage of his questioning. Its all on youtube now, five hours in total.

If you are saying they got him to say she had no tattoo's if they tell him she did have tattoos you are basically saying they staged the questioning. Either by turning the cameras off for rehearsals or having secret rehearsal questioning prior.

that happens
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 22, 2019, 05:16:PM
Who said anything about writing anything down? The records all consist of video recorded footage of his questioning. Its all on youtube now, five hours in total.

If you are saying they got him to say she had no tattoo's if they tell him she did have tattoos you are basically saying they staged the questioning. Either by turning the cameras off for rehearsals or having secret rehearsal questioning prior.

Can you post a link to the Youtube vid?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 05:52:PM
Can you post a link to the Youtube vid?

https://youtu.be/NYOaIDxirHE (https://youtu.be/NYOaIDxirHE)

https://youtu.be/rJt6j5E1y_s (https://youtu.be/rJt6j5E1y_s)

https://youtu.be/s-Y_CCkMv3Q (https://youtu.be/s-Y_CCkMv3Q)

https://youtu.be/VTipx6RfTC0 (https://youtu.be/VTipx6RfTC0)

https://youtu.be/nN-4qFhRttE (https://youtu.be/nN-4qFhRttE)

There is actually around 7 hours in total.

I haven't watched them but I once listened through all of them while doing other stuff. I would then re-watched/listened to anything that caught me ear.  If you are thinking of going over it all. I would recommend that as Its not exactly entertaining.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 22, 2019, 06:38:PM
https://youtu.be/NYOaIDxirHE (https://youtu.be/NYOaIDxirHE)

https://youtu.be/rJt6j5E1y_s (https://youtu.be/rJt6j5E1y_s)

https://youtu.be/s-Y_CCkMv3Q (https://youtu.be/s-Y_CCkMv3Q)

https://youtu.be/VTipx6RfTC0 (https://youtu.be/VTipx6RfTC0)

https://youtu.be/nN-4qFhRttE (https://youtu.be/nN-4qFhRttE)

There is actually around 7 hours in total.

I haven't watched them but I once listened through all of them while doing other stuff. I would then re-watched/listened to anything that caught me ear.  If you are thinking of going over it all. I would recommend that as Its not exactly entertaining.

Thanks - I'll listen to them over the next few weeks - 7 hours is a long time.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 06:41:PM
Thanks - I'll listen to them over the next few weeks - 7 hours is a long time.

Why? Do you still doubt his guilt?

The only thing that’s debatable IMO is his level of responsibility.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 06:44:PM
im just reading the coments lots of people underneath saying what a joke the interview.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 22, 2019, 06:54:PM
im just reading the coments lots of people underneath saying what a joke the interview.

YouTube comments? Great detective work from you as usual.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 07:15:PM
hes asking them what they want him to say i cant see i need any proof theres somthing wrong with that confession.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 07:23:PM
YouTube comments? Great detective work from you as usual.  ;D ;D ;D

well the fact that almst everybody on can see somthing wrong with the confession tells me a lot..

that fact none of the coments tally p with what your climing also tells me a lot.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 22, 2019, 07:34:PM
Thanks - I'll listen to them over the next few weeks - 7 hours is a long time.

 i belive david is using the same trick scipio used to use post a link thats to long for anybody to watch straght through

then make up qautes from it knowing full that nobdys going to be arsed to check it all.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 23, 2019, 12:10:AM
i belive david is using the same trick scipio used to use post a link thats to long for anybody to watch straght through

then make up qautes from it knowing full that nobdys going to be arsed to check it all.

I will :). I think he probably knows that.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 12:46:AM
i belive david is using the same trick scipio used to use post a link thats to long for anybody to watch straght through

then make up qautes from it knowing full that nobdys going to be arsed to check it all.

Caroline asked for the footage, So how can it even be my "trick"?  ???

If you think I made up that stuff about the tattoos. You can find what I have quoted on page 621 and page 622 of Brendan's 01/03/06 police interview. Word for word because that is where I copied and pasted it from.

Talking of making stuff up, did you ever find your source for Jodi Jones bruised knuckles?  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 23, 2019, 12:58:AM
Caroline asked for the footage, So how can it even be my "trick"?  ???

If you think I made up that stuff about the tattoos. You can find what I have quoted on page 621 and page 622 of Brendan's 01/03/06 police interview. Word for word because that is where I copied and pasted it from.

Talking of making stuff up, did you ever find your source for Jodi Jones bruised knuckles?  ::)

how do you find page 621 of a youtube video.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 01:31:AM
I will :). I think he probably knows that.

In one of those interviews Brendan reveals how Avery used to grab him by genitals and not let go.

Combine this with fact he threw a cat in a fire, masturbated in-front of people in public and raped his underage niece. He is one twisted guy who clearly cannot control himself.

Ironically his wrongful imprisonment through the 90s probably prevented many crimes against women from happening.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 23, 2019, 01:56:AM
so a mentally disabled man saying to policeman what do you want me to say isn't the slightest bit problematic as far as confessions go.

who there ustioning without any representative present.

that wouldent even be legal here.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 02:07:PM
so a mentally disabled man saying to policeman what do you want me to say isn't the slightest bit problematic as far as confessions go.

who there ustioning without any representative present.

that wouldent even be legal here.

Brendan never said to the police "what do you want me to say". You are just making stuff now.

When someone is coerced into a confession, they often quickly recant it. Brendan didn't. He remained co-operative and accepted his guilt for a further eight months. Until he was persuaded by his Uncle to deny everything and not take the plea deal so Brendan would not testify against him at his own trial.

The time when he confessed to his cousin just a few weeks after the murder. And the time he confessed to his mother over the prison phone. Were they coercing him also or was he framing himself?  ::)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 23, 2019, 02:17:PM
Brendan never said to the police "what do you want me to say". You are just making stuff now.

When someone is coerced into a confession, they often quickly recant it. Brendan didn't. He remained co-operative and accepted his guilt for a further eight months. Until he was persuaded by his Uncle to deny everything and not take the plea deal so Brendan would not testify against him at his own trial.

The time when he confessed to his cousin just a few weeks after the murder. And the time he confessed to his mother over the prison phone. Were they coercing him also or was he framing himself?  ::)

the cop is the is constantly leading.

he has an iq of below 70.

the cop makes suggestions and hes saying yes that cant possbly be called a legitmate confession.

any op who did that here would probely be sacked..
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 03:11:PM
the cop is the is constantly leading.

he has an i of belw 70.

the cop makes suggestions and hes saying yes that cant possbly be calle a legitmate confession.

any op who did that here would probely be sacked..

Can you please address the fact that Brendan confessed to his cousin long before the cops questioned him. And the fact that Brendan confessed yet again to his mother over the prison phone.

You only have three options

A) He's guilty.
B) His mother and cousin somehow coerced him.
C) He was framing himself.

If your answer is anything but A) You will then have to explain why he places himself at the murder scene at the time of the murder in his own defence at trial.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 23, 2019, 03:29:PM
Can you please address the fact that Brendan confessed to his cousin long before the cops questioned him. And the fact that Brendan confessed yet again to his mother over the prison phone.

You only have three options

A) He's guilty.
B) His mother and cousin somehow coerced him.
C) He was framing himself.

If your answer is anything but A) You will then have to explain why he places himself at the murder scene at the time of the murder in his own defence at trial.

unless its a recorded confesin we dont know what was said so its pretty meaningless.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 03:44:PM
unless its a recorded confesin we dont know what was said so its pretty meaningless.

Brendan's confession to his mother over the phone was recorded. Details of what Kayla told the school staff about what Brendan told her was brought up at his trial. All quoted below. Whats your excuse going to be now?

Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."


Kayla told both school staff and the police what Brendan had said to her.

Q: Directing your attention to January of 2006, early January, did you have occasion to have contact with a student by the name of Kayla Avery?
A: Yes.
Q: Urn, would you describe for us, urn, first and foremost, how that contact occurred?
A: Kayla came into the counseling office and asked to speak to a counselor.
Q: All right. And, urn, who was present when she came in and asked to speak with a counselor?
A: It was myself and Karen Baumgartner.
Q: Tell us what happened?
A: Kayla came in, urn, to the office, and, urn, she was asked by Ms. Baumgarner -- Ms. Baumgartner if she minded that I was there, and Kayla aid, no. And she said she was there because she Was feeling scared.
Q: All right. Let me stop you there, first, and ask who else, if anyone, was present for this conversation?
A: No one else.
Q: All right. So there's just the three of you?
A: Correct.
Q: All right. And did Kayla reveal to the two of you why she was feeling scared and why she wanted to talk?
A: Yes.
Q: And what did she tell you?
A: She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: You also told the officers that Brendan told you he saw Teresa alive and pinned up, didn't you?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. And you love Brendan; right?
A: Yes. Very much.
Q: And you wouldn't tell -- You wouldn't say anything like that to get him in trouble, would you?
A: No. Not really.
Q: All right. But yet you told the officers that those were the conversations you had with Brendan; isn't that right?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. You told -- You told the officers that Brendan told you he had seen Teresa pinned up in Steven's trailer, didn't you?
A: Yes.


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 23, 2019, 03:51:PM
Brendan's confession to his mother over the phone was recorded. Details of what Kayla told the school staff about what Brendan told her was brought up at his trial. All quoted below. Whats your excuse going to be now?

Janda: "What all happened? What are you talking about?"
Dassey: "About what me and Steven did that day."
Janda: "So Steven did do it?"
Dassey: "Yeah."
Janda: "Uh, he makes me so sick."
Dassey: "I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though."
Janda: "What do you mean?"
Dassey: "I ain't gonna face him."
Janda: "Who?"
Dassey: "Steven."
Janda: "You know what Brendan?"
Dassey: "What?"
Janda: "He did it. You do what you gotta do. So in those statements you did all that to her too?"
Dassey: "Some of it."


Kayla told both school staff and the police what Brendan had said to her.

Q: Directing your attention to January of 2006, early January, did you have occasion to have contact with a student by the name of Kayla Avery?
A: Yes.
Q: Urn, would you describe for us, urn, first and foremost, how that contact occurred?
A: Kayla came into the counseling office and asked to speak to a counselor.
Q: All right. And, urn, who was present when she came in and asked to speak with a counselor?
A: It was myself and Karen Baumgartner.
Q: Tell us what happened?
A: Kayla came in, urn, to the office, and, urn, she was asked by Ms. Baumgarner -- Ms. Baumgartner if she minded that I was there, and Kayla aid, no. And she said she was there because she Was feeling scared.
Q: All right. Let me stop you there, first, and ask who else, if anyone, was present for this conversation?
A: No one else.
Q: All right. So there's just the three of you?
A: Correct.
Q: All right. And did Kayla reveal to the two of you why she was feeling scared and why she wanted to talk?
A: Yes.
Q: And what did she tell you?
A: She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: You also told the officers that Brendan told you he saw Teresa alive and pinned up, didn't you?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. And you love Brendan; right?
A: Yes. Very much.
Q: And you wouldn't tell -- You wouldn't say anything like that to get him in trouble, would you?
A: No. Not really.
Q: All right. But yet you told the officers that those were the conversations you had with Brendan; isn't that right?
A: Yes.
Q: All right. You told -- You told the officers that Brendan told you he had seen Teresa pinned up in Steven's trailer, didn't you?
A: Yes.


well the second statement clearly shows there leading his cousen as well.

the statement again means absolutely nothing she said did steven do it well as the cops had already charged steven and told him that steven did it he would say it.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 23, 2019, 05:50:PM
well the second statement clearly shows there leading his cousen as well.

the statement again means absolutely nothing she said did steven do it well as the cops had already charged steven and told him that steven did it he would say it.

The police never questioned Kayla, she gave them the info in a statement on her own free will. You cant claim that school staff coerced his cousin either, Since Kayla went to the school staff in January because she was scared as a result of what Brendan told her. Then the school staff reported that to the police. That is how Brendan ended up being questioned by police in the first place. Brendan then told the same details to the police, as Kayla told the school staff.

That rules out any coercion. You have only one option left and that is Brendan framed himself. His subsequent weight loss of 3 stone and crying to himself after the murder was all an act to frame himself also.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 24, 2019, 02:06:PM
The police never questioned Kayla, she gave them the info in a statement on her own free will. You cant claim that school staff coerced his cousin either, Since Kayla went to the school staff in January because she was scared as a result of what Brendan told her. Then the school staff reported that to the police. That is how Brendan ended up being questioned by police in the first place. Brendan then told the same details to the police, as Kayla told the school staff.

That rules out any coercion. You have only one option left and that is Brendan framed himself. His subsequent weight loss of 3 stone and crying to himself after the murder was all an act to frame himself also.

she has since retracted that statement.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 24, 2019, 04:09:PM
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Ftv%2Ftv-news%2Fmaking-murderer-shock-witness-just-7260812%3Futm_source%3Dfacebook.com%26utm_medium%3Dsocial%26utm_campaign%3Dsharebar%26fbclid%3DIwAR17aF02gtOvjjF1smgX7v2oN6r1x_LopQOFyZgl4h0cHSJPFRow2k9rGgI&h=AT1i_VroYCGO98qoGk8XQsEssFXUYych65fC0uXCstH5VV2KUMC_wzftWnw1l21sl8GEpvVX1v7JWKrOrUJevrz-vPa_WbSHVh6tJ3Mn8ZZiyTlVCpegWcIFXsbSKXuckDGO1iUWLlLumXTKU8XC-j6-xLLhqoWS2A
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 24, 2019, 08:07:PM
im  bit sceptical about this.

https://fxn.ws/2mLqcDy?fbclid=IwAR0MoRy8230sEZJ1N2dQ0b7qJizWyx1nQ5fn5YoPemPHv8_l7PRT2AN9xWU
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 25, 2019, 05:06:PM
Nice to see that Evans guy Trolling Averys attorney with a confession. Anyone reading it will realise how stupid it is for anyone other than Steven Avery to be killer.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 25, 2019, 05:32:PM
https://youtu.be/H31h88NVYqQ
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 25, 2019, 05:58:PM
https://youtu.be/cI8Re3sDmvw
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 27, 2019, 10:06:PM
Here is the audio recording of Brendan's confession to his mother.

https://youtu.be/GPzEgkCJrmA?t=28 (https://youtu.be/GPzEgkCJrmA?t=28)

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 28, 2019, 02:18:PM
Here is the audio recording of Brendan's confession to his mother.

https://youtu.be/GPzEgkCJrmA?t=28 (https://youtu.be/GPzEgkCJrmA?t=28)

Anything you have to say nugs?  ::)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 28, 2019, 04:43:PM
Anything you have to say nugs?  ::)

The audio was in the last documentary
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 28, 2019, 04:45:PM
Anything you have to say nugs?  ::)

thts was made from jail was it when was it made.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 28, 2019, 08:28:PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4212670/index.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR1UooKpV-FTuVNAixJPRMVrRR79nTvY9gAJ5iWLpm-jxNn2CI4P2hOSFkU
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 28, 2019, 08:30:PM
Anything you have to say nugs?  ::)


so basicaly cops  tell him he has to his mom did it and he tells his mom he did it and he has the mental age of a 9 year old.

not exactly convincing.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 28, 2019, 10:33:PM

so basicaly cops  tell him he has to his mom did it and he tells his mom he did it and he has the mental age of a 9 year old.

not exactly convincing.

No he told his mum what happened. The sincerity is rather apparent.

When most kids get coerced they tell their parents soon after that they were forced to say it. That's not what happened here.

The whole coercion idea came from his Granddad months later.

https://streamable.com/anqx0 (https://streamable.com/anqx0)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 28, 2019, 11:19:PM
is that why his mum reffred to them as a pile of dogshit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4212670/index.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR1UooKpV-FTuVNAixJPRMVrRR79nTvY9gAJ5iWLpm-jxNn2CI4P2hOSFkU
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 28, 2019, 11:36:PM
is that why his mum reffred to them as a pile of dogshit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4212670/index.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR1UooKpV-FTuVNAixJPRMVrRR79nTvY9gAJ5iWLpm-jxNn2CI4P2hOSFkU

His mum called someone a "piece of dog s**t!" :o

Great detective work Nugs. Brendan will be out in no time now!  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 28, 2019, 11:39:PM
His mum called someone a "piece of dog s**t!" :o

Great detective work Nugs. Brendan will be out in no time now!  ;D

well at least i dont have to resort to making shit up like you do.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 29, 2019, 12:09:AM
Just skimmed over the evidence regarding Brendan's mental abilities.

He scored a verbal IQ of 84, a nonverbal IQ of 87. You need an IQ below 70 to be considered mentally impared.

No mention of him having the mental age of a 9 year old either.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 29, 2019, 12:19:AM
Just skimmed over the evidence regarding Brendan's mental abilities.

He scored a verbal IQ of 84, a nonverbal IQ of 87. You need an IQ below 70 to be considered mentally impared.

No mention of him having the mental age of a 9 year old either.

its mentioned in the link i posted.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 29, 2019, 02:14:PM
The amount of mental gymnastics people do to continue their belief in SA and BD is truly remarkable.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 29, 2019, 04:51:PM
Just skimmed over the evidence regarding Brendan's mental abilities.

He scored a verbal IQ of 84, a nonverbal IQ of 87. You need an IQ below 70 to be considered mentally impared.

No mention of him having the mental age of a 9 year old either.

If you average the scores you posted (85.5), his mental age would be thirteen and a half years old (score*age)/100.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on September 29, 2019, 05:43:PM
acording to this he has a mental age of nine.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4212670/index.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR1UooKpV-FTuVNAixJPRMVrRR79nTvY9gAJ5iWLpm-jxNn2CI4P2hOSFkU
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: Caroline on September 29, 2019, 06:40:PM
acording to this he has a mental age of nine.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4212670/index.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR1UooKpV-FTuVNAixJPRMVrRR79nTvY9gAJ5iWLpm-jxNn2CI4P2hOSFkU

In the article, it also states that his IQ was 90, which would make his mental age 14. Not sure where they got the 9 from.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on September 30, 2019, 05:19:PM
Just to remind you guys. That to believe Brendan is innocent you must also believe the following -

1. The police planted Teresa's DNA on a bullet from Avery's rifle. They then planted that bullet in the garage, to corroborate what Brendan had told them.

2. The police planted the luminol patch in the garage to corroborate what Brendan told them.

3. The police planted the near empty bottles of bleach and paint thinner on the garage table to corroborate what Brendan told them.

4. Brendan was innocently cleaning his uncles garage that night while Teresa's corpse was burning right behind it.

5. Brendan lied for no reason in his first police statement. Saying he was at home playing Playstation 2 all night.

6. Kayla made up Brendan's confession to her and by sheer chance was exactly what Brendan told the police.

7. Kayla was acting scared and distraught to school staff despite making up what she said.

8. Brendan lost 3 stone, became depressed and cried allot after the murder for no apparent reason.

I will elaborate on points 4 and 5. Brendan initially told the police he was playing PS2 all night. However at his trial he claimed he was cleaning up engine oil round Steve's garage that night. Because the recorded phone conversation between Steve Avery and his GF in prison, placed him in the garage that night cleaning. Along with the bleach stains on this jeans. Made it impossible for him to go back to his origional story.

When you dissect the defence version of events. It simply makes no sense. Because its not true.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 03, 2019, 10:37:AM
kyla admited she made it up.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 03, 2019, 11:05:AM
kyla admited she made it up.

No she claimed to have made it up. Because she didn't want to get Brendan in anymore trouble.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 03, 2019, 11:17:AM
No she claimed to have made up. Because she didn't want to get Brendan in anymore trouble.

she retracted her statement simple as.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 03, 2019, 11:36:AM
she retracted her statement simple as.

Doesn't mean she made it up. Simple as.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 03, 2019, 12:24:PM
Doesn't mean she made it up. Simple as.

what else can it mean if somone retracts there story.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 03, 2019, 12:39:PM
what else can it mean if somone retracts there story.

A) They told the truth and later decide they want to lie.

B) They told a lie and later decide they want to tell the truth.

C) They told a lie and later decide to tell a different lie.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 04, 2019, 12:39:AM
https://t.co/lSjk3tsNTZ?amp=1
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 04, 2019, 02:08:AM
https://t.co/lSjk3tsNTZ?amp=1

Three years after Steve and Brendan got convicted he sent flirtatious text messages to a female witness in a totally unrelated case.  How does that help Steve and Brendan?

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 04, 2019, 04:03:PM
Three years after Steve and Brendan got convicted he sent flirtatious text messages to a female witness in a totally unrelated case.  How does that help Steve and Brendan?

who said im trying to help them im posting about the case. you twat.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 04, 2019, 05:32:PM
https://youtu.be/_9aV06U44KE
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 04, 2019, 05:36:PM
https://youtu.be/Xf8nrdEuTJ0
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 04, 2019, 06:30:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQiR4Juujo)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 04, 2019, 08:52:PM
https://youtu.be/rngjiH-QBx8
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 06, 2019, 05:30:PM
Nice to see that Evans guy Trolling Averys attorney with a confession. Anyone reading it will realise how stupid it is for anyone other than Steven Avery to be killer.

to me it says a fair bit about the credibility of Shawn Rech
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 09, 2019, 02:50:PM
https://youtu.be/YTBXxDmH9x4
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on October 09, 2019, 03:55:PM
https://youtu.be/BhUr62JWFzk?t=16 (https://youtu.be/BhUr62JWFzk?t=16)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 13, 2019, 06:10:PM
https://youtu.be/pJuJlsAmLZg
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: nugnug on October 13, 2019, 08:31:PM
https://youtu.be/wo5-bWHQfAc
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2019, 06:48:PM
In case nobody is up to date. Steven Avery's supporters manged get all of the prosecutors audio tapes of Steven Avery's jail house phone conversations via a FOI request and uploaded it all to Youtube. To no surprise it backfired on them big time.

We now know that Steven Avery was put in suicide watch after he heard the news of Brendan's confession. When he got out he phoned his lawyer saying "I guess they got it all on film or tape or whatever what we did that night"

Oh dear.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 06:51:PM
In case nobody is up to date. Steven Avery's supporters manged get all of the prosecutors audio tapes of Steven Avery's jail house phone conversations via a FOI request and uploaded it all to Youtube. To no surprise it backfired on them big time.

We now know that Steven Avery was put in suicide watch after he heard the news of Brendan's confession. When he got out he phoned his lawyer saying "I guess they got it all on film or tape or whatever what we did that night"

Oh dear.
Oh dear, not followed it much lately how’s Zelna getting on with it?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2019, 07:09:PM
Oh dear, not followed it much lately how’s Zelna getting on with it?

She has offered a 100k reward for info leading to the "real killer"  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 07:12:PM
She has offered a 100k reward for info leading to the "real killer"  ;D
Oh, I mean how’s the appeal process going?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2019, 07:42:PM
Oh, I mean how’s the appeal process going?

She was trying to get the bones re-tested but she couldn't since the family have buried whats left of the victim. She then tried to argue that Avery's rights were violated by returning the bones to the victims family.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 07:49:PM
She was trying to get the bones re-tested but she couldn't since the family have buried whats left of the victim. She then tried to argue that Avery's rights were violated by returning the bones to the victims family.
I will try and catch up with it, not read about it for a while, were they American forum’s you were on  when they accused you of being Ken?  Not going on myself just curious?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2019, 08:46:PM
I will try and catch up with it, not read about it for a while, were they American forum’s you were on  when they accused you of being Ken?  Not going on myself just curious?

Its not even worth catching up on Zellners "progress". She knows he is guilty and knows he is not going anywhere. She is only doing it for attention and publicity.

It was an American forum yes. And I am not the only person accused of being Kratz lol
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 08:59:PM
Its not even worth catching up on Zellners "progress". She knows he is guilty and knows he is not going anywhere. She is only doing it for attention and publicity.

It was an American forum yes. And I am not the only person accused of being Kratz lol
Ha Ha, I bet it’s hard work with that lot, I wouldn’t bother I bet they’re losing the argument when they insult you.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2019, 09:24:PM
Ha Ha, I bet it’s hard work with that lot, I wouldn’t bother I bet they’re losing the argument when they insult you.

I only engage with people who know either know his is guilty or are on the fence. There is no point debating the "truthers" they are too emotionally invested after watching Netflix.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 09:29:PM
I only engage with people who know either know his is guilty or are on the fence. There is no point debating the "truthers" they are too emotionally invested after watching Netflix.
Must say, I listened to Jim Clemente, he’s got reservations about him Avery,  he makes a lot of sense when you listen to Jim
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 04, 2019, 10:14:PM
Its not even worth catching up on Zellners "progress". She knows he is guilty and knows he is not going anywhere. She is only doing it for attention and publicity.

It was an American forum yes. And I am not the only person accused of being Kratz lol
Ive listened to a podcast about the Melgars, Zelneir took that case on as well.  If you get chance listen to the series, it’s on Truth & Justice   Bob Ruff
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 09:07:AM
She was trying to get the bones re-tested but she couldn't since the family have buried whats left of the victim. She then tried to argue that Avery's rights were violated by returning the bones to the victims family.
Never realised he killed the family cat by soaking it in gasoline and setting fire to it?  Didn’t he brag that burning a body destroys the DNA evidence? I think the scrap yard was a haven for the family to do what they wanted.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 05, 2019, 09:39:AM
Never realised he killed the family cat by soaking it in gasoline and setting fire to it?  Didn’t he brag that burning a body destroys the DNA evidence? I think the scrap yard was a haven for the family to do what they wanted.

If you want to know what happened, its all here.

https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8 (https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 10:43:AM
If you want to know what happened, its all here.

https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8 (https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8)
Ok will do thanks
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 01:22:PM
If you want to know what happened, its all here.

https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8 (https://pastebin.com/raw/5vub10u8)
Just seems a little detailed to me David, he seems to remember every little detail.  Why didn’t he ask to be wired?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 05, 2019, 05:17:PM
Just seems a little detailed to me David, he seems to remember every little detail.  Why didn’t he ask to be wired?

This was after Avery was convicted. They had a lot of spare time together in prison.

Evans also wrote

“All I know is that Steven told me step-by-step over time all that he did, in detail. I believe Steven did it because he told me he did it.”

Evans is in prison, there is no plausible way he could have obtained such info, other than from Avery himself. Prison records show they were in the same ward doing the same duties ect ect.

If someone goes into detail about a crime like that, are you going to forget it? I cant imagine i would.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 05:22:PM
This was after Avery was convicted. They had a lot of spare time together in prison.

Evans also wrote

“All I know is that Steven told me step-by-step over time all that he did, in detail. I believe Steven did it because he told me he did it.”

Evans is in prison, there is no plausible way he could have obtained such info, other than from Avery himself. Prison records show they were in the same ward doing the same duties ect ect.

If someone goes into detail about a crime like that, are you going to forget it? I cant imagine i would.
I suppose not, it was really detailed though.  He ought to have been miked before he came with it.  Why put duct over her mouth when she’s dead though?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 05, 2019, 06:23:PM
I suppose not, it was really detailed though.  He ought to have been miked before he came with it.  Why put duct over her mouth when she’s dead though?

Read this post of mine here. Its a more detailed breakdown of its corroboration.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 06:34:PM
Read this post of mine here. Its a more detailed breakdown of its corroboration.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584)
Mmm very interesting, I’m going to catch up with it all, I’m virtually away for two weeks next week and week after, I will try to listen to Jim Clemente and give you snippets from him.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 07:47:PM
Read this post of mine here. Its a more detailed breakdown of its corroboration.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9730.msg455584.html#msg455584)
Just  read about a series coming out, Convicting a Murderer, Ken Kratz features in it David, have you heard anything?  Seems as though Ken is back in demand?

 Ken Kratz features in the show's trailer, along with a relative of Halbach's and another employee at her place of work
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 05, 2019, 08:25:PM
Just  read about a series coming out, Convicting a Murderer, Ken Kratz features in it David, have you heard anything?  Seems as though Ken is back in demand?

 Ken Kratz features in the show's trailer, along with a relative of Halbach's and another employee at her place of work
Mmm looks interesting, this is what Kratz said about the new series, Every court in the US has now reaffirmed both Avery and Dassey’s guilt – what can they say?” he tweeted last month. “I can’t wait for the other side to finally come out.”
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2019, 12:37:AM
Mmm looks interesting, this is what Kratz said about the new series, Every court in the US has now reaffirmed both Avery and Dassey’s guilt – what can they say?” he tweeted last month. “I can’t wait for the other side to finally come out.”

Problem is most people don't bother doing research and just want to watch TV. That's why so many people think Avery is innocent. TV has only showed them a work of fiction. This new series is long over due IMO.

Ken Kratz has had his named dragged through the mud over the last four years. All because he locked away a killer. I bet he cant wait for it to come out.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on December 06, 2019, 07:57:AM
Problem is most people don't bother doing research and just want to watch TV. That's why so many people think Avery is innocent. TV has only showed them a work of fiction. This new series is long over due IMO.

Ken Kratz has had his named dragged through the mud over the last four years. All because he locked away a killer. I bet he cant wait for it to come out.
I don’t agree with what Kratz has done regards sexting scandal and his private life, maybe the Netflix series never helped him, it lifted him high profile and he fell by the wayside a little.  As a prosecutor you have to take your hat off to him, he went against the odds and put it over in a convincing way.  Maybe this series will help him recover and get back on track.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 12, 2020, 09:52:PM
 https://youtu.be/J7CRqjf5UAU?t=578 (https://youtu.be/J7CRqjf5UAU?t=578)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 25, 2020, 02:33:PM
Prosecutions closing rebuttal on the key.

Let's assume Mr. Strang's theory is correct, that these cops aren't trying to frame an innocent person, but trying to make sure that a guilty person is found guilty. Well, can't you then, with that argument, set the key aside? Do you have the ability, as a jury, to set that key aside,if in fact it doesn't matter whether or not Mr. Avery is guilty or not guilty in this analysis? Can you set that aside and decide is there enough other evidence, or is the key the only thing that points to Mr. Avery? Well,if this was a CSI case, one of those cases on TV where sometimes that key, or sometimes one little piece of evidence like that may decide the guilt or innocence, it would make a difference. But that key, in the big picture, in the big scheme of things here, means very little. All right.

Now, I'm telling you that not because I don't want you to consider it, not because I think that it's not important, or not because the credibility of these officers is in question to the State at all. What I am suggesting, though, is that if you buy Mr. Strang's argument, if you buy Mr. Strang's argument that they were trying to make sure that a guilty person was found guilty, then assigning accountability to the murder for Teresa Halbach, shouldn't matter whether or not that key was planted. In other words, it shouldn't matter to the Halbach family. You shouldn't be punishing the police officers,in other words, the other officers that were involved in this investigation, if you come to that conclusion. You are not going to. You are not going to come to that conclusion because you have heard nothing about these police officers that they would do such a thing. But my suggestion is simply not to focus all your attention. In the law, that's called searching for doubt. The Judge has told you, and may even tell you again in your closing instruction,that you are to search for the truth, you are not to search for doubt. In other words, you don't go

into this case saying, well, let's look at where all the discrepancies are first. That's the place maybe that we should start, because as my closing argument suggested to you, there's got to be a reason, right. There's got to be a reason that we have been here for five weeks. No, there doesn't. There doesn't have to be a reason why you have been here for five weeks, other than the defendant's constitutional right to a trial. And so the Judge will tell you not to start there. The Judge will tell you not to start at searching for doubt. The Judge will tell you that the whole process, the beginning of the process, the middle, and the end, is to search for the truth. To search for the truth in this case is who killed Teresa Halbach, not whether or not we can find some discrepancies. More about the key. Mr. Buting, I believe it was,had the imagination, let's call it, to suggest to you that maybe officers were taking a toothbrush and were kind of rubbing Mr.Avery's toothbrush on the key and that's how the DNA got on the key. Common sense should tell you that these kind of motions, what are called

furtive motions, or for lay people, for people like you, it's called suspicious looking things, is something that you should probably discard. Because if they take Mr. Avery's toothbrush and start rubbing it on the key, you know, and then kind of hold it behind their back, that becomes almost cartoonish, that becomes something that is not at all plausible. But as important, when did that happen, when did they plant the DNA on Mr. Avery's key. Because we're not just talking about planting a key. If it was planting a key, that's damning enough. It's damning enough to have this particular key found in Mr. Avery's bedroom. But what makes it irrefutable is that Mr. Avery's DNA, positive, hundred percent match, is on that key. Right? And you heard the testimony from Ms Culhane, and perhaps others, that the last person to handle a key or an object is most likely to leave the DNA on the key. Now, Mr. Strang and Mr. Buting have asked you to just discard that, ignore it, ignore that expert opinion. I don't know why they are asking you to do that, because it doesn't fit with their theory of defense.

But it's the DNA on the key that has to be planted too. Please understand that. It's not just planting the key, it's planting the DNA on the key as well. If they planted the key, where did they get the key? Now, that leads to an interesting series of questions as well. There are only two ways that law enforcement can get this key. All right. Because the vehicle was locked, and because on the 5th of November officers don't really have access, as you have seen by the scene security. They had to have access to the key before the 5th. And so there's only two ways to do that. One, they can kind of stumble across it in a scenario that Mr. Strang suggests, maybe off duty or something like that. Or the last person to hold that key, other than Teresa Halbach, is the person who killed her. Now, you heard that testimony in this case. It may have drawn an objection, I don't remember right now, use your own collective knowledge as to whether it did. But that makes sense, that the last person, other than Teresa, to hold this key, is the person who killed her.

And if that's the case, then you hold these two gentlemen responsible for suggesting that to you. In other words, despite Mr. Buting standing up here, I think it was the beginning of yesterday, saying, look, folks, we're not saying that the cops killed Teresa Halbach, what we're saying is that somebody else, I think his words were,"skillfully exploited law enforcement bias", as if there's somebody smart enough out there that could do that. We're going to talk about that in just a minute. But when you go down one layer, when you scrape one layer of this manure off of the topsoil, which is what it is, you scrape one layer, you will realize that the cops had to kill her. The cops had to be involved in killing Teresa Halbach. Now, are you prepared to say that? Are you,as the jury, in order to find Mr. Avery not guilty, willing to say that your cops, that your Manitowoc County Sheriff's deputies, Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Colborn, because of Mr. Avery's lawsuit, that Sergeant Colborn and Lieutenant Lenk didn't have a dime of stake in, at least financially, that they weren't involved in in

1985, that they gave a deposition in about receiving a phone call and transferring the phone call, and that's the extent to it, but because of that involvement, are you willing to say that these two otherwise honest cops came across a 25 year old photographer, killed her, mutilated her, burned her bones, all to set up and to frame Mr. Avery. You have got to be willing to say that. You have got to make that leap. Because of this question right there, where did they get the key?


Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:04:AM
Just seems a little detailed to me David, he seems to remember every little detail.  Why didn’t he ask to be wired?

what a load of old crock !
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:06:AM
This was after Avery was convicted. They had a lot of spare time together in prison.

Evans also wrote

“All I know is that Steven told me step-by-step over time all that he did, in detail. I believe Steven did it because he told me he did it.”

Evans is in prison, there is no plausible way he could have obtained such info, other than from Avery himself. Prison records show they were in the same ward doing the same duties ect ect.

If someone goes into detail about a crime like that, are you going to forget it? I cant imagine i would.

prisons have tvs, newspaper and visitors, no way is he telling the truth.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:09:AM
Problem is most people don't bother doing research and just want to watch TV. That's why so many people think Avery is innocent. TV has only showed them a work of fiction. This new series is long over due IMO.

Ken Kratz has had his named dragged through the mud over the last four years. All because he locked away a killer. I bet he cant wait for it to come out.

ken kratz needs to get a life, is a narcissist, and cannot forgive those that exposed his sexting and what happened to him afterwards for his sexting scandal. i am not sure if he truly believes avery was guilty but he has serious mental health issues imo.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:15:AM
Just  read about a series coming out, Convicting a Murderer, Ken Kratz features in it David, have you heard anything?  Seems as though Ken is back in demand?

 Ken Kratz features in the show's trailer, along with a relative of Halbach's and another employee at her place of work

i am looking forward to seeing this too as i would like to hear both sides. but do remember that the guilty side wouldn’t take part in making a murderer and now some of the innocent side won’t take part in this.

kratz did have tunnel vision as they were gunning for avery from the very beginning. i used to believe the police would never do anything like setting someone up but just yesterday a man was released after spending 28 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit and this is happening on a weekly basis in america.

it’s quite possible they set him up without doubt. without these docu series how would anyone get to know the truth. as far as making a murderer goes , yes they left some stuff out but they did on both sides. it’s not possible to include everything.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:20:AM
Ha Ha, I bet it’s hard work with that lot, I wouldn’t bother I bet they’re losing the argument when they insult you.

well actually the redit site is split into two sites, one for the innocent side and one for the guilters side. no arguing that way just debating although a lot of it on each side tend to slag the other side off
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:22:AM
She was trying to get the bones re-tested but she couldn't since the family have buried whats left of the victim. She then tried to argue that Avery's rights were violated by returning the bones to the victims family.

and they were violated. that was wrong and they know it
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:25:AM
Its not even worth catching up on Zellners "progress". She knows he is guilty and knows he is not going anywhere. She is only doing it for attention and publicity.

It was an American forum yes. And I am not the only person accused of being Kratz lol

she thinks he’s innocent and is working pro bono. she has got 20’people or so exonerated so far and is an excellent lawyer imo. i’m not sure she’s gonna win this one though.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:27:AM
In case nobody is up to date. Steven Avery's supporters manged get all of the prosecutors audio tapes of Steven Avery's jail house phone conversations via a FOI request and uploaded it all to Youtube. To no surprise it backfired on them big time.

We now know that Steven Avery was put in suicide watch after he heard the news of Brendan's confession. When he got out he phoned his lawyer saying "I guess they got it all on film or tape or whatever what we did that night"

Oh dear.

eh we’ll if we had that we wouldn’t all be arguing about it would be. stop distorting the facts david
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:31:AM
and as far as brendans confession i would rather believe the many many experts in this field that have said it was coerced and it is now being used as how not to interrogate a young mentally challenged person.

Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 02:32:AM
just thought i would add my thoughts on this thread as it seems to be the David show
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 26, 2020, 10:29:AM
eh we’ll if we had that we wouldn’t all be arguing about it would be. stop distorting the facts david


"Glynn: Hey Steven how are you?

Avery: Not too good.

Glynn: What’s going on?

Avery: I just got out of the hole.

Glynn: For what? What were you put in for?

Avery: I don’t know. Don’t ask me. They thought I was going to hurt myself or something.

Glynn: Oh, Christ.

Avery: But I guess they were talking to Brendan last night.

Glynn: Yeaah. ..

Avery: I guess they got it all on film or tape or whatever what we did that night. So I don’t know what they told ‘em or what.

Glynn: Hmm. I’m not sure what that means.. .what you’re telling me. Well (nervous laugh) ...I’m a little concerned about your talking over the telephone.

Avery: Yeah

Glynn: Um, the, uh, does it relate to the pending case?

Avery: I guess so.

Glynn: Uh, huh. Um, and who’s Brendan?

Avery: That’s Barbara’s kid.

Glynn: Uh huh.

Avery: He’s the one that was with me that night.

Glynn: Uh huh.

Avery: With the fire.

Glynn: Uh, huh. Well, since this is a conversation between you and your lawyer, it should be considered privileged."


https://youtu.be/5fj1mo3rdS0?t=41 (https://youtu.be/5fj1mo3rdS0?t=41)
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 26, 2020, 06:08:PM
as i said distorting the facts
he then goes on to say he had brendan over to pick some stuff up to put on the fire and he doesn’t understand cos that’s all they did

david if your going to put something forward out the whole picture so it’s fair
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 26, 2020, 10:32:PM
as i said distorting the facts
he then goes on to say he had brendan over to pick some stuff up to put on the fire and he doesn’t understand cos that’s all they did

david if your going to put something forward out the whole picture so it’s fair

I am not distorting anything. But a few questions for you -

If he does not yet know what Brendan said. Why was he placed on suicide watch when heard Brendan was talking?

Explain why both Avery and Brendan in their first statements to the police both denied having any bonfire that night and they both said they saw Teresa leave but no-one else did?

Why did Avery tell the police he was in all night listening to music and Brendan said he was at home playing PS2. Why is Avery giving a totally different story in a privileged phone call to a lawyer that cannot be used in court against him?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 27, 2020, 04:44:PM
I am not distorting anything. But a few questions for you -

If he does not yet know what Brendan said. Why was he placed on suicide watch when heard Brendan was talking?

Explain why both Avery and Brendan in their first statements to the police both denied having any bonfire that night and they both said they saw Teresa leave but no-one else did?

Why did Avery tell the police he was in all night listening to music and Brendan said he was at home playing PS2. Why is Avery giving a totally different story in a privileged phone call to a lawyer that cannot be used in court against him?

he would have been put on suicide watch because he probably felt a absolutely helpless. he hadn’t long done 18 years for a crime he didn’t commit and anyone would have felt the same

second one has always baffled me. i’m convinced they weren’t sure what night they had a fire and they were in a catch 22 . have u ever been convinced you had done something on a certain day then someone told you no it was a different day. i have t seen thier first statements have you? this is also answers 3 in part.

you are assuming that steven is a very intelligent man, he too has a very low IQ, i don’t believe he said anything that would incriminate home in that phone call - believe me i bet all his meetings were recorded. completely corrupt
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 27, 2020, 05:25:PM
he would have been put on suicide watch because he probably felt a absolutely helpless. he hadn’t long done 18 years for a crime he didn’t commit and anyone would have felt the same

Brendan was supposed to be his alibi. He hears Brendan talking to the police and goes suicidal without knowing what Brendan said?

second one has always baffled me. i’m convinced they weren’t sure what night they had a fire and they were in a catch 22 . have u ever been convinced you had done something on a certain day then someone told you no it was a different day. i have t seen thier first statements have you? this is also answers 3 in part.

you are assuming that steven is a very intelligent man, he too has a very low IQ, i don’t believe he said anything that would incriminate home in that phone call - believe me i bet all his meetings were recorded. completely corrupt

This does not work when you consider all the other witnesses that remember the bonfire. This bonfire was seen burning over a 7 hour period. And it was only seen up til 11:30pm because that's when the last witness went to bed. This is were the bones were found. Did the bone planters just get lucky that Steven had a 7 hour bonfire the night they killed Teresa AND where they decided to plant the bones?

Avery makes it clear in these calls he had a bonfire. Nowhere does use the words think or might or believe. Its an undeviating recollection.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 27, 2020, 06:04:PM
Brendan was supposed to be his alibi. He hears Brendan talking to the police and goes suicidal without knowing what Brendan said?

This does not work when you consider all the other witnesses that remember the bonfire. This bonfire was seen burning over a 7 hour period. And it was only seen up til 11:30pm because that's when the last witness went to bed. This is were the bones were found. Did the bone planters just get lucky that Steven had a 7 hour bonfire the night they killed Teresa AND where they decided to plant the bones?

Avery makes it clear in these calls he had a bonfire. Nowhere does use the words think or might or believe. Its an undeviating recollection.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 27, 2020, 06:16:PM
dam i typed a reply then mucked it up, working from phone so a pain in the neck. will try and prize the laptop from hubby
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 27, 2020, 07:39:PM
Brendan was supposed to be his alibi. He hears Brendan talking to the police and goes suicidal without knowing what Brendan said?

This does not work when you consider all the other witnesses that remember the bonfire. This bonfire was seen burning over a 7 hour period. And it was only seen up til 11:30pm because that's when the last witness went to bed. This is were the bones were found. Did the bone planters just get lucky that Steven had a 7 hour bonfire the night they killed Teresa AND where they decided to plant the bones?

Avery makes it clear in these calls he had a bonfire. Nowhere does use the words think or might or believe. Its an undeviating recollection.

Brendan also said in one of his conversations to his mum that he didn't know what steven was telling them so that works both way.

if there had been one shred of evidence Teresa had ever been in that trailer I would be having serious doubts but after being stabbed in the stomach, her hair cut off, throat slit and shackled to the bed and not a single hair or drop of blood or a fingerprint, no way will I ever believe that she was killed in that trailer, that then puts Bobbys testimony as a lie, he has a lot to answer for don't you agree.

as for the bones, well bones were also found 2 miles away in the quarry so how did they get there/

his phone records corroborate what he says, and Teresas phone records show her leaving the yard. he was not savvy enough to have killed her and during the kill talk to Jodi on the phone as if nothing had happened. absolutely no way.

the key was planted without a doubt and kratz saying so what just makes it worse, if one piece of evidence was planted how can you trust any of the other evidence.

the blood in her car is the only piece of evidence that I am stuck on, yes I believe it was planted and I do think it was planted by the blood they already had in the tube. I know there was no edta in it but they didn't test it all and this test has never been used before or since. its bollocks david . The FBI would have normllay taken months if not years to have come up with a test able to detect edta as its been tried before but on this occasion they came up with a test in weeks. Nope I don't believe it.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 31, 2020, 05:37:PM
How is Avery wearing a towel evidence that he killed her?

There is actually evidence now showing that he was deliberately wearing just a towel for when Teresa visited. I will explain if you are interested.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 31, 2020, 08:42:PM
Steve on the phone to his sister while in jail.

Barb Tadych :She wouldn't fuck you, you had to murder her because she turned your ass down.

Steven Avery: Yeah I'm blaming it on the county.

Barb Tadych: I know.

Steven Avery: What else is there.


No denial?  Conspiracy is your only defense option?
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 31, 2020, 08:46:PM
mmmm rubbish come back. if your going to state conversations please put the whole conversation so we can get it in context.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 31, 2020, 08:54:PM
mmmm rubbish come back. if your going to state conversations please put the whole conversation so we can get it in context.

Stop finding excuses. He is guilty.

Teresa rejected his sexual approaches so he rapes her. When all was said and done he had to kill her.

The end.
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: notsure on January 31, 2020, 10:29:PM
 ;D ;D ;D if you say so david
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on January 31, 2020, 10:50:PM
;D ;D ;D if you say so david

Yup

Avery called her down.
Last person the victim spoke to on the phone was Avery.
Victim last seen alive walking towards his trailer.
Avery has a 7 hour bonfire in his burn pit later that day
Victims bones and clothes are found in his burn pit.
Murder weapon found hanging on his wall.
The guy next door said they both raped and killed her.

You know it makes sense.  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: David1819 on February 02, 2020, 07:23:PM
Teresa liked to wear jeans. The exact same type that showed up in Steven Avery's burn pit.

https://streamable.com/4q95n (https://streamable.com/4q95n)

The exact same type of Jeans that went missing from the Halbach property after she died.

"Ken Kratz:. After your sister's disappearance, and after you learned that your sister had died, did you have occasion to go back to her house and look through some of her stuff?

Katie Halbach: Yes, we did.

Ken Kratz: When you looked through her stuff, Katie, did you find her Daisy Fuentes jeans?

Katie Halbach: We did not."


They were found in the exact same place Steven had his bonfire the night she went missing.

https://streamable.com/bhlp5 (https://streamable.com/bhlp5)

The exact same place Brendan (who said they both raped and killed her) said Steve threw Teresa's clothes.

"Q: Did he throw anything else on the fire?

A: Some garbage.

Q: Did he have anything else?

A: Some clothes that had blood stain a cuttin’ it.

Q: Describe the clothes for us.

A: The shirt was blue and the pants were I don’t know.

Q: What did they look like then, what gender clothing?

A: Girl clothes.

Q: Did he say whose clothes they were?

A: yeah

Q: And whose were they?

A: Teresa Halbach’s.
"
Title: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
Post by: guest7363 on July 29, 2021, 07:19:AM
Making a Murderer killer Steven Avery is DENIED retrial by appeals court after it agrees with lower court's decision to reject his application for a retrial over photographer's sex killing

However, Avery's attorney Kathleen Zellner- who specializes in wrongful conviction- is determination to continue to fight for Avery's freedom. He can now take his case to the Wisconsin Supreme Court in another attempt to clear his name.