Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 05:50:PM

Title: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 05:50:PM
Always been a mystery, and there must be a reason and JB was a high profile prisoner
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 10, 2017, 06:02:PM
This might help.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 10, 2017, 06:06:PM
Jackie,didn't the relatives kick up a stink about this and RWB wrote a stiff letter to EP telling them what he thought of the justice system-------afterwards,the local MP joined in and had his/her say,on behalf of the family ? The old chestnut of them " all living in fear " came into play as well.
I wonder why that had such an impact,yet nobody will budge when it comes to asking for documents/files !
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 06:11:PM
What in practical terms is the difference between making escape "impossible" and "very difficult"?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 10, 2017, 06:14:PM
Jackie,didn't the relatives kick up a stink about this and RWB wrote a stiff letter to EP telling them what he thought of the justice system-------afterwards,the local MP joined in and had his/her say,on behalf of the family ? The old chestnut of them " all living in fear " came into play as well.
I wonder why that had such an impact,yet nobody will budge when it comes to asking for documents/files !

I thought it was only prisoners who were heading towards release who were downgraded. The presiding judge said, when he sentenced Jeremy that he was handing down a MINIMUM of 25 years but it remained to be seen whether he was ever considered safe enough to release.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 07:12:PM
Jackie,didn't the relatives kick up a stink about this and RWB wrote a stiff letter to EP telling them what he thought of the justice system-------afterwards,the local MP joined in and had his/her say,on behalf of the family ? The old chestnut of them " all living in fear " came into play as well.
I wonder why that had such an impact,yet nobody will budge when it comes to asking for documents/files !

Well the experts in the prison obviously came to the conclusion that JB should be downgraded
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 10, 2017, 07:23:PM
Well the experts in the prison obviously came to the conclusion that JB should be downgraded





Yes,because of RWB's letter of complaint. I wonder if those relatives have found another" pillar of strength " in readiness for the next appeal.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 10, 2017, 07:29:PM
Well the experts in the prison obviously came to the conclusion that JB should be downgraded

I think you'll find that it WELL beyond a prison officer's -even a prison governor's- remit, to countermand the instructions of a Crown Court judge. Jeremy was not being prepared parole or release.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 08:12:PM
I thought it was only prisoners who were heading towards release who were downgraded. The presiding judge said, when he sentenced Jeremy that he was handing down a MINIMUM of 25 years but it remained to be seen whether he was ever considered safe enough to release.

As you know well if the judge had known about the before trial deal with the NOW he would have directed the jury in a different way
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 08:22:PM
As you know well if the judge had known about the before trial deal with the NOW he would have directed the jury in a different way
Oh and would you have informed the jury that Anji Greaves was waiting at the Dorchester with Jeremy's deal? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3189.0
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 10, 2017, 08:25:PM
As you know well if the judge had known about the before trial deal with the NOW he would have directed the jury in a different way

There's that magic word again -IF- never has such a small word carried such huge potential. The judge, very properly, directed the jury, using the information he had at the time.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 10, 2017, 09:26:PM
Oh and would you have informed the jury that Anji Greaves was waiting at the Dorchester with Jeremy's deal? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3189.0

It is perfectly permissible for a defendant to conclude a deal with the press at any stage, but totally illegal for a prosecution witness to conclude a deal before a verdict in a trial.  There are very good reasons for the distinction between the two which have been explained in earlier posts on this forum.

 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 09:32:PM
It is perfectly permissible for a defendant to conclude a deal with the press at any stage, but totally illegal for a prosecution witness to conclude a deal before a verdict in a trial.  There are very good reasons for the distinction between the two which have been explained in earlier posts on this forum.

 
That's not the point, which is whether the jury should be privy to all such deals, whether concluded by a prosecution witness or the defendant.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 09:38:PM
Julie did make a verbal deal with the NOTW prior to the verdict. The NOTW apptoached her.

Nothing was signed until after the verdict. The NOTW were only going to sign a contract with Julie if Bamber was found guilty.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 10, 2017, 09:43:PM
Julie did make a verbal deal with the NOTW prior to the verdict. The NOTW apptoached her.

Nothing was signed until after the verdict. The NOTW were only going to sign a contract with Julie if Bamber was found guilty.

Adam you obviously did not read the post made by NGB yesterday the contract was a contract whether signed or not it was made before the trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 09:44:PM
Julie did make a verbal deal with the NOTW prior to the verdict. The NOTW apptoached her.

Nothing was signed until after the verdict. The NOTW were only going to sign a contract with Julie if Bamber was found guilty.
Yes but the guilty verdict was not conditional on the jury believing Julie's evidence. The jury asked the judge about the blood in the silencer but not for a summary of her evidence, which in his summing up Mr. Justice Drake advised them to "treat with a good deal of caution".
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 09:45:PM
Adam you obviously did not read the post made by NGB yesterday the contract was a contract whether signed or not it was made before the trial.
That's a possible interpretation but even on Jeremy Bamber's official website they don't claim that this was illegal.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 09:48:PM
Adam you obviously did not read the post made by NGB yesterday the contract was a contract whether signed or not it was made before the trial.

Obviously making a verbal agreement during a trial is not enough to give Bamber a technicality.

Did Bamber approach the NOTW like he did with The Sun ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 10, 2017, 09:52:PM
Obviously making a verbal agreement during a trial is not enough to give Bamber a technicality.

Did Bamber approach the NOTW like he did with The Sun ?

have not got a clue what you are talking about please relate to Julie making a contract before the trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 09:59:PM
have not got a clue what you are talking about please relate to Julie making a contract before the trial.

Are you not aware Bamber tried to sell his life story & sordid pictures of Sheila to the Sun. Before he was arrested ?

Julie made a verbal agreement before the verdict. Nothing can change that.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 10, 2017, 10:01:PM
That's a possible interpretation but even on Jeremy Bamber's official website they don't claim that this was illegal.

Steve I would take the word of a highly qualified Barrister.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 10, 2017, 10:05:PM
Are you not aware Bamber tried to sell his life story & sordid pictures of Sheila to the Sun. Before he was arrested ?

Julie made a verbal agreement before the verdict. Nothing can change that.

Adam I am aware Jeremy may have sold semi nude pictures of Sheila what has that got to do with what we were discussing they were only minor nude pictures. Not a verbal agreement either stop trying to change the facts it will not work.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 10:09:PM
Adam I am aware Jeremy may have sold semi nude pictures of Sheila what has that got to do with what we were discussing they were only minor nude pictures. Not a verbal agreement either stop trying to change the facts it will not work.

I'm not trying to change the fact that Julie made a verbal agreement with the NOTW, pre verdict. They approached her.

What are you trying to say ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 10, 2017, 10:13:PM
That's not the point, which is whether the jury should be privy to all such deals, whether concluded by a prosecution witness or the defendant.

It certainly is the point.  A deal should not be concluded by a prosecution witness, whereas there is no problem with a defendant concluding a deal.  A deal does not give a defendant any incentive to lie; a defendants imperative is to be acquitted and an additional financial incentive from a newspaper makes no difference whatsoever.  For a prosecution witness however a financial incentive may create pressure to lie in order to secure a conviction.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 10, 2017, 10:14:PM
Julie did make a verbal deal with the NOTW prior to the verdict. The NOTW apptoached her.

Nothing was signed until after the verdict. The NOTW were only going to sign a contract with Julie if Bamber was found guilty.

There was a concluded deal with the NOW before the trial.  The deal was conditional upon a conviction.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 10:19:PM
There was a concluded deal with the NOW before the trial.  The deal was conditional upon a conviction.

Good. All legal & above board. Otherwise Bamber would have been all over it trying to get a technicality.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 10, 2017, 10:21:PM
Good. All legal & above board. Otherwise Bamber would have been all over it trying to get a technicality.

What are you trying to say???
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:33:PM
It certainly is the point.  A deal should not be concluded by a prosecution witness, whereas there is no problem with a defendant concluding a deal.  A deal does not give a defendant any incentive to lie; a defendants imperative is to be acquitted and an additional financial incentive from a newspaper makes no difference whatsoever.  For a prosecution witness however a financial incentive may create pressure to lie in order to secure a conviction.
I'm not arguing that. What I am saying is that if there are any deals at all then the jury should know both sides, not just the let's-blacken-Julie-at-every-opportunity brigade.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 10:34:PM
I just thought that I will now only refer to Mugford as Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford), I think it's better to use her married name now in case new members would like to research the case in detail and see if they believe she was a reliable witness
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:37:PM
There was a concluded deal with the NOW before the trial.  The deal was conditional upon a conviction.
Yes it was, but the trial was not solely about Julie Mugford, much as you would like to portray it as such. Even the official site does not claim the deal broke the law. https://jeremybamber.org/julie-mugford/
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 10:40:PM
I'm not arguing that. What I am saying is that if there are any deals at all then the jury should know both sides, not just the let's-blacken-Julie-at-every-opportunity brigade.


You still don't get it Steve do you? Jeremy had every right to sell his story if he is innocent and had been locked up for months on trial

On the other hand Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) on her own admission was guilty of numerous crimes including perverting the course of justice

Why should Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) get paid for being on the front page of a newspaper wearing no knickers after committing such serious crimes
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:45:PM

You still don't get it Steve do you? Jeremy had every right to sell his story if he is innocent and had been locked up for months on trial

On the other hand Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) on her own admission was guilty of numerous crimes including perverting the course of justice

Why should Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) get paid for being on the front page of a newspaper wearing no knickers after committing such serious crimes
Because if Jeremy were guilty the press deal fell through, just as it would with Julie if he were found innocent. Whichever way the cookie crumbled one might think the jury were entitled to know.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:47:PM
Steve I would take the word of a highly qualified Barrister.
Susan I'm taking Jeremy Bamber's official site.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 10, 2017, 10:52:PM
Because if Jeremy were guilty the press deal fell through, just as it would with Julie if he were found innocent. Whichever way the cookie crumbled one might think the jury were entitled to know.

The jury were not told about Bamber trying to sell his story & tasteless pictures of Sheila to the Sun. Which were related to the massacre.

However they were told about Julie's minor 1984 minor cheque book fraud. Which was nothing to do with the massacre.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 10:54:PM
Because if Jeremy were guilty the press deal fell through, just as it would with Julie if he were found innocent. Whichever way the cookie crumbled one might think the jury were entitled to know.

Jeremy never said at any point that he was involved in planning the murders , carrying out the murders etc etc

 Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford On the other hand admitted her part in planning the murders and covering up the murders


Completely different
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 10:56:PM
However how much people have tried to dig to find out if Jeremy tried to sell nude pictures there is not a shred of evidence this is true
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 10, 2017, 10:57:PM
The jury were not told about Bamber trying to sell his story & tasteless pictures of Sheila to the Sun. Which were related to the massacre.

However they were told about Julie's minor 1984 minor cheque book fraud. Which was nothing to do with the massacre.


Provide a source regarding the nude photos
Contact the reporter
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:58:PM
The jury were not told about Bamber trying to sell his story & tasteless pictures of Sheila to the Sun. Which were related to the massacre.

However they were told about Julie's minor 1984 minor cheque book fraud. Which was nothing to do with the massacre.
Yes that's another good point which the Defence wishes to gloss over. For goodness sake can't they see through this evil con man?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 10:59:PM
Jeremy never said at any point that he was involved in planning the murders , carrying out the murders etc etc

 Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford On the other hand admitted her part in planning the murders and covering up the murders


Completely different
She didn't plan but she did equivocate on occasion, which may have seemed like tacit approval to Bamber's warped mind.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 10, 2017, 11:20:PM
I have removed a couple of posts from this thread.  Personal remarks and comments on other posters behaviour on other sites is irrelevant to the thread. Cheers
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:21:PM
It is perfectly permissible for a defendant to conclude a deal with the press at any stage, but totally illegal for a prosecution witness to conclude a deal before a verdict in a trial.  There are very good reasons for the distinction between the two which have been explained in earlier posts on this forum.

 

That does make perfect sense. JB's incentive was not to be convicted, any financial bonus would not have affected his preferred outcome.

So many things are posted which turn out not to be factual, but I recall it being said that JB was aware of JM's deal at trial, do you think this is true?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 11:22:PM
However how much people have tried to dig to find out if Jeremy tried to sell nude pictures there is not a shred of evidence this is true
Again the Defence is in denial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:24:PM
Again the Defence is in denial.

The allegations do not stem from this forum, they came to light in a national newspaper.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:31:PM
That does make perfect sense. JB's incentive was not to be convicted, any financial bonus would not have affected his preferred outcome.

So many things are posted which turn out not to be factual, but I recall it being said that JB was aware of JM's deal at trial, do you think this is true?

Page 272, 'Blood Relations' - Outside, it was dark. At two minutes to six, the jury returned to court on the judge's orders. The jury foreman announced that they had reached no unanimous verdict on any of the five murder indictments. Neither was a majority verdict likely in the time available that evening. The judge decided to call it a day, and sent the jury to a hotel for the night. Downstairs in his cell, Jeremy Bamber was keeping an iron grip on his emotions. One observer found him 'discerningly composed'. He was discussing what he would do when released the following day. He was bandying figures for which he planned to sell his story to the newspapers - somewhat unattractive behaviour, in the opinion of one of his legal team. A group of them sat with Jeremy, trying to buoy up his spirits but feeling increasingly uncomfortable about his obsession with a newspaper deal. The best offer he'd had, he said, was £40,000. Couldn't they get him a better offer than that? After all, he was pointing out, if he was convicted, Julie had been promised £15,000 for her story. She was already ensconced at the Chelsea Holiday Inn in Sloane Street, closeted with two reporters from the News of the World.

Page 277 details - The deal that Julie Mugford had struck with the News of the World gave the newspaper exclusive rights to her story and pictures in return for £15,000, but the deal only stood if Bamber was convicted. (The same paper had secured exclusive rights to Jeremy Bamber's own story had he been found not guilty. That deal would have earned Bamber the sum of £40,000, a figure Bamber himself had complained was hardly adequate given the explosive nature of the revelations he was promising about his relations.)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 11:34:PM
The allegations do not stem from this forum, they came to light in a national newspaper.
I was referring to Sun journalist Michael Fielder's allegation that Jeremy Bamber and Brett Collins attempted to sell nude pictures of Sheila in the Nag's Head, Chelmsford, shortly after her death.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:34:PM
That does make perfect sense. JB's incentive was not to be convicted, any financial bonus would not have affected his preferred outcome.

So many things are posted which turn out not to be factual, but I recall it being said that JB was aware of JM's deal at trial, do you think this is true?

If it is true, then the idea of bringing the subject up now as something new, appears somewhat ludicrous.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:36:PM
I was referring to Sun journalist Michael Fielder's allegation that Jeremy Bamber and Brett Collins attempted to sell nude pictures of Sheila in the Nag's Head, Chelmsford, shortly after her death.

Yes, it was then published in a national newspaper that JB had attempted to so them the pictures.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 10, 2017, 11:41:PM
Yes, it was then published in a national newspaper that JB had attempted to so them the pictures.
Yes thanks to Adam for discussing this most recently: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6375.0
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:42:PM
Page 272, 'Blood Relations' - Outside, it was dark. At two minutes to six, the jury returned to court on the judge's orders. The jury foreman announced that they had reached no unanimous verdict on any of the five murder indictments. Neither was a majority verdict likely in the time available that evening. The judge decided to call it a day, and sent the jury to a hotel for the night. Downstairs in his cell, Jeremy Bamber was keeping an iron grip on his emotions. One observer found him 'discerningly composed'. He was discussing what he would do when released the following day. He was bandying figures for which he planned to sell his story to the newspapers - somewhat unattractive behaviour, in the opinion of one of his legal team. A group of them sat with Jeremy, trying to buoy up his spirits but feeling increasingly uncomfortable about his obsession with a newspaper deal. The best offer he'd had, he said, was £40,000. Couldn't they get him a better offer than that? After all, he was pointing out, if he was convicted, Julie had been promised £15,000 for her story. She was already ensconced at the Chelsea Holiday Inn in Sloane Street, closeted with two reporters from the News of the World.

Page 277 details - The deal that Julie Mugford had struck with the News of the World gave the newspaper exclusive rights to her story and pictures in return for £15,000, but the deal only stood if Bamber was convicted. (The same paper had secured exclusive rights to Jeremy Bamber's own story had he been found not guilty. That deal would have earned Bamber the sum of £40,000, a figure Bamber himself had complained was hardly adequate given the explosive nature of the revelations he was promising about his relations.)

So how can the defence now complain that Julie had this deal in place that was unknown to them, yet they and Jeremy appears to be fully aware of the deal at the original trial?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 10, 2017, 11:44:PM
Yes thanks to Adam for discussing this most recently: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6375.0

Agreed, that deserves more than just a link though:

Bamber and his mate Brett collins had been rooting round Sheila's flat looking for money and valuables to tide Bamber over until the wills were sorted out, they found nothing..except the nude pictures of Sheila.

Jeremy and Brett discussed what they should do with their find, Bamber was certain the photographs would prove to be a little gold mine he needed to carry him over the next few months.

They decided the quickest and easiest way to make money from them would be to sell them to a newspaper, Brett suggested the Sun. Brett already had dealings with one of its reporters. Collins rang The sun and asked to speak to Michael Fielder, Fielder had followed the WHF story closely.

They arranged a meeting in the Nags Head Pub in Chelmsford.

The three met up and Fielder was amazed at the attitude of the young men "Collins and Bamber turned up and we had a few drinks and a snack" remembered Fielder. "They were sniggering and giggling together like a couple of schoolboys. I asked them about the photographs and Bamber said "oh, they are really good pictures of bambi-with the biggest vibrator you ever saw"

Fielder said "they gave me the impression that the pictures showed bambi doing things to herself with the vibrator, the two men were laughing and sharing in jokes".

But Bamber and Collins went further with their scandalous hints, according to the reporter. "They were trying to give me the impression that Bambi and Jeremy had been with each other. there was was loads of innuendo about Bamber and his involvement with her. it was all crude suggestiveness and snigger snigger.

The trio discussed the proposed sale for an hour. Bamber was asking a price of £20,000 for about twenty topless and nude colour transparencies. "they show everything, right down to the last detail. They are really good pictures" said Jeremy. Bamber also discussed the possibility of selling unpublished pictures of his parents and murdered nephews, Bamber said he would be looking for a substantial sum and would be prepared to sell his own life story.

Fielder said he was amazed at the complete callousness displayed by Bamber and was keen to follow up this incredible turn of events to see where it led. Bamber had not brought the photos with him so they made arrangements to meet at Sheila's Morshead Mansions flat.

Fielder phoned the Sun and the Editor was of the opinion that Bamber trying to sell nude pictures of his dead sister appalling. he said "tell the b........ to stick his pictures". The editor told fielder to write a story of what Bamber had tried to do, Fielder did as the editor asked but thinks it was a mistake. Fielder wanted to go along with the pretence of buying them so that he could check they actually existed.

Fielders story on the attempted sale of the pictures by Bamber appeared in the next edition of the Sun. Discouraged by the failed attempt the pair never got in touch with the Sun again.

Michael Fielder reflected on the episode " I have been in this job for 20 years and I have seen a lot of terrible crimes, but this one sent chills down my spine. It was really incredibly bad and Bamber himself sent a shiver through me when i was talking to him. Of course I knew the police were sure he had done it so I went to the meeting with a certain view of him. I found it amazing that he could be so self assured, arrogant, not caring at all about what had happened.

By the way Fielder DID make a statement to the police about the episode, the police even asked Fielder if he would give evidence in court should he be needed
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 10:28:AM
Susan I'm taking Jeremy Bamber's official site.

Steve I know who you are talking about and I would still put my money on a experienced highly qualified Barrister.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 11, 2017, 01:43:PM
Steve I know who you are talking about and I would still put my money on a experienced highly qualified Barrister.


Susan
There has never been evidence to prove Jeremy sold any nude pictures of Sheila and everyone here has had the chance to contact the reporter themselves and anyway how reliable is he anyway

Also everyone has also had the chance to ask Jeremy themselves but they have not have they
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 02:22:PM

Susan
There has never been evidence to prove Jeremy sold any nude pictures of Sheila and everyone here has had the chance to contact the reporter themselves and anyway how reliable is he anyway

Also everyone has also had the chance to ask Jeremy themselves but they have not have they
I suppose you can pay your money and take your choice: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA320&lpg=PA320&dq=jeremy+bamber+michael+fielder&source=bl&ots=jQzUM1Fez-&sig=Une1txc6rJ32bTNNbuItAFQNzMI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjymK_Mos_VAhWhKcAKHUVeBPIQ6AEIQTAD#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20michael%20fielder&f=false

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6754.0
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 11, 2017, 02:38:PM
Perhaps he should have gone to the NOTW where they weren't averse to women posing knickerless.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 02:41:PM

Susan
There has never been evidence to prove Jeremy sold any nude pictures of Sheila and everyone here has had the chance to contact the reporter themselves and anyway how reliable is he anyway

Also everyone has also had the chance to ask Jeremy themselves but they have not have they

Hi Jackie my response to steve was in respect of Julie entering into a contract with the newspaper before the trial took place and this information came from our very own Barrister NGB.  Steve seems to be taking more notice from the CT who according to him say this is not true and as I said I prefer to believe a qualified Barrister.  As far as the nude pics are concerned I have not seen evidence that this is true  but in Colin's book he stated Jeremy kept some of Sheila's picture from when she was a model and he indicated they were Sheila posing either nearly nude but not entirely but I have not got a clue what happened to them maybe they were returned to Colin.  I have always advocated any action taken by Jeremy does not make him a murderer just a young lad without any sense or indeed morals that is all quite naive and easily led is my opinion of Jeremy.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 11, 2017, 02:47:PM
Perhaps he should have gone to the NOTW where they weren't averse to women posing knickerless.

Not much to choose between them. Both gutter rags publishing sh-one-t under the heading of "the public's right to know".
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 02:50:PM
Hi Jackie my response to steve was in respect of Julie entering into a contract with the newspaper before the trial took place and this information came from our very own Barrister NGB.  Steve seems to be taking more notice from the CT who according to him say this is not true and as I said I prefer to believe a qualified Barrister.  As far as the nude pics are concerned I have not seen evidence that this is true  but in Colin's book he stated Jeremy kept some of Sheila's picture from when she was a model and he indicated they were Sheila posing either nearly nude but not entirely but I have not got a clue what happened to them maybe they were returned to Colin.  I have always advocated any action taken by Jeremy does not make him a murderer just a young lad without any sense or indeed morals that is all quite naive and easily led is my opinion of Jeremy.
Jeremy told Colin that the photographs showed "everything down to the last detail", exactly the same phrase as he used to Michael Fielder. Of course the incident does not prove him to be a mass murderer, but it is an indication of his materialistic character, foremost in his mind before the victims were even buried.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 11, 2017, 03:17:PM
Perhaps he should have gone to the NOTW where they weren't averse to women posing knickerless.

It was the same newspaper but even they saw that the better story was the one in which the so called 'grieving victim' was savvy enough to try and cash in on the tragic circumstances of his entire families demise.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 11, 2017, 04:46:PM
I suppose you can pay your money and take your choice: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA320&lpg=PA320&dq=jeremy+bamber+michael+fielder&source=bl&ots=jQzUM1Fez-&sig=Une1txc6rJ32bTNNbuItAFQNzMI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjymK_Mos_VAhWhKcAKHUVeBPIQ6AEIQTAD#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20michael%20fielder&f=false

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6754.0


I am not the slightest bit interested in anything from books and you are fully aware of this so I suggest you stop posting about the subject and just posts facts

I am so bored with reading your posts that are just pieces you have cut and posted from a number of different books

Write to the journal in question or just drop it

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 11, 2017, 04:47:PM
So how can the defence now complain that Julie had this deal in place that was unknown to them, yet they and Jeremy appears to be fully aware of the deal at the original trial?


A book again how boring
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 11, 2017, 04:50:PM
Perhaps he should have gone to the NOTW where they weren't averse to women posing knickerless.


What's sickening is the way Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) has that smug look on her face
She obviously got a kick of posing with no knickers on
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 04:52:PM

I am not the slightest bit interested in anything from books and you are fully aware of this so I suggest you stop posting about the subject and just posts facts

I am so bored with reading your posts that are just pieces you have cut and posted from a number of different books

Write to the journal in question or just drop it
Jackie the authors have read the documentation and referenced their research with footnotes. It's not just a matter of talking to Doris Foakes one Friday afternoon and fabricating stories therefrom.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 11, 2017, 05:30:PM
Jackie the authors have read the documentation and referenced their research with footnotes. It's not just a matter of talking to Doris Foakes one Friday afternoon and fabricating stories therefrom.

You keep believing everything you read and I will carry on researching facts and you keep believing Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) isn't a prolific liar who make it clear in her statements she wanted Jeremy dead so no other women could have him

Steve why have you been on so many forums about this case when in your eyes Jeremy is guilty and never getting out
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 11, 2017, 05:53:PM

What's sickening is the way Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) has that smug look on her face
She obviously got a kick of posing with no knickers on

Not sure how you know she wasn't wearing knickers?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 07:31:PM
You keep believing everything you read and I will carry on researching facts and you keep believing Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) isn't a prolific liar who make it clear in her statements she wanted Jeremy dead so no other women could have him

Steve why have you been on so many forums about this case when in your eyes Jeremy is guilty and never getting out
I'm on this forum, David Bain Counterspin, and I wrote a piece five years ago for Betnod. I don't know if it's so many really. As for motive, I wish to assist Colin in any way I can.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 08:50:PM
I'm on this forum, David Bain Counterspin, and I wrote a piece five years ago for Betnod. I don't know if it's so many really. As for motive, I wish to assist Colin in any way I can.

Steve how are you going to assist Colin?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 08:56:PM
Steve how are you going to assist Colin?
By keeping Bamber behind bars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 09:15:PM
By keeping Bamber behind bars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185

Steve I am sorry but nothing you or I say on this forum will have any bearing on whether or not Jeremy Bamber stays behind bars surely if new evidence is uncovered that proves he is innocent you would want to see him freed.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 09:22:PM
Steve I am sorry but nothing you or I say on this forum will have any bearing on whether or not Jeremy Bamber stays behind bars surely if new evidence is uncovered that proves he is innocent you would want to see him freed.
Well I'm not sure whether it's because this site is ineffectual or because most of the time barristers don't come on here to argue the toss..
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 09:45:PM
Well I'm not sure whether it's because this site is ineffectual or because most of the time barristers don't come on here to argue the toss..

Steve Jeremy Bamber was found guilty in a Court of Law and Lawyers and Barristers who are fighting his cause are not working from this forum.  NGB is at the helm because of his interest in the case no gain for him whatever happens to Jeremy. I guess you are fighting to keep him in prison and you do not seem interested in evidence that might free him
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 11, 2017, 09:55:PM
Steve Jeremy Bamber was found guilty in a Court of Law and Lawyers and Barristers who are fighting his cause are not working from this forum.  NGB is at the helm because of his interest in the case no gain for him whatever happens to Jeremy. I guess you are fighting to keep him in prison and you do not seem interested in evidence that might free him
Not at all;I have perused more evidence on this forum than most. I agree it's best not to make personal attacks on other members whatever their status.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 11, 2017, 10:02:PM
Not at all;I have perused more evidence on this forum than most. I agree it's best not to make personal attacks on other members whatever their status.

Steve very well said. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 11, 2017, 10:09:PM
I have removed more posts from this thread. 

Can posters please stick to the point and not squabble about who is or was a member of whatever forum, it is of no interest to guests or members of the forum when they are trying to read threads.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 12:13:PM
Yes it was, but the trial was not solely about Julie Mugford, much as you would like to portray it as such. Even the official site does not claim the deal broke the law. https://jeremybamber.org/julie-mugford/

When have I ever claimed the trial was solely about Julie Mugford?  I have repeatedly said that the two key planks of the prosecution case were the Mugford evidence and the evidence relating to the silencer.

It was serious enough the NOW deal having been made but what is even more serious is the fact that Julie Mugford lied about this during the trial, resulting in the jury not being told and given an appropriate warning. 

You continue to misrepresent what I say and to whitewash Julie Mugford's conduct.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 12:20:PM
That does make perfect sense. JB's incentive was not to be convicted, any financial bonus would not have affected his preferred outcome.

So many things are posted which turn out not to be factual, but I recall it being said that JB was aware of JM's deal at trial, do you think this is true?

Yes, I believe he did know.  The defence however did not at that stage have proof of the deal so they raised the issue with the judge in chambers.  The judge directed the prosecution to make enquiries.  They questioned Julie Mugford and she stated that she had made no deal with the press and had no intention of making such a deal.  The matter therefore was not raised in court before the jury.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 12:23:PM
I'm not arguing that. What I am saying is that if there are any deals at all then the jury should know both sides, not just the let's-blacken-Julie-at-every-opportunity brigade.

Jeremy Bamber was not asked about any deal.  Had he been asked he would have had no reason to deny it as there was nothing improper in a defendant making a deal with the press before trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 12:28:PM
If it is true, then the idea of bringing the subject up now as something new, appears somewhat ludicrous.

As I have already said, the defence did try to raise this at trial, but were prevented from taking it further because of Julie Mugford's lies about the matter.  The defence tried to raise it again at the 2002 appeal as they had further information, but the Court of Appeal would not grant the order for third party disclosure requested.  There has more recently been further evidence relating to this which could form part of a future appeal.
 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 12:29:PM
So how can the defence now complain that Julie had this deal in place that was unknown to them, yet they and Jeremy appears to be fully aware of the deal at the original trial?

I have explained this in my posts above.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 12, 2017, 01:23:PM
As I have already said, the defence did try to raise this at trial, but were prevented from taking it further because of Julie Mugford's lies about the matter.  The defence tried to raise it again at the 2002 appeal as they had further information, but the Court of Appeal would not grant the order for third party disclosure requested.  There has more recently been further evidence relating to this which could form part of a future appeal.

What does the further evidence consist of? Documentation from Ellison's perhaps?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 01:44:PM
What does the further evidence consist of? Documentation from Ellison's perhaps?

It is documentary evidence but I do not think I should say more because it has not been made public.  I received the information from a very reliable - and independent - source.   
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 12, 2017, 02:10:PM
It is documentary evidence but I do not think I should say more because it has not been made public.  I received the information from a very reliable - and independent - source.

That's fair enough.

It does seem odd that any evidence is even required. If it was known about at the original trial and even referred to the judge, then surely the published NOW article is evidence in itself?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 02:21:PM
By keeping Bamber behind bars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185

How very interesting
So you don't really believe Jeremy is guilty then if your worried about Jeremy getting out of prison
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 02:38:PM
How very interesting
So you don't really believe Jeremy is guilty then if your worried about Jeremy getting out of prison
No I believe he is guilty. Some people don't. Some would have liked him hanged; I would not. If I could put mass murderers, rapists and paedophiles on a remote Scottish island away from the general public and nullify the threat they pose I would. That's the best compromise I can offer for Bamber, stuck behind the walls of Monster Mansions Wakefield Prison. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britains-most-dangerous-convicts-reveal-reality-of-life-in-highly-restricted-jails-within-jails-10470130.html
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 02:43:PM
It is documentary evidence but I do not think I should say more because it has not been made public.  I received the information from a very reliable - and independent - source.
This has once again gone down like a lead balloon. As Bill Robertson suggested we'll give you until Christmas, and that's being magnanimous after thirty-two years.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 02:48:PM
By keeping Bamber behind bars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185

You obviously think there is a chance of Jeremy coming out prison then

Therefore you don't know he is guilt
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 02:52:PM
By keeping Bamber behind bars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185


And I am on here to see Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugfords) lies are made public knowledge
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 02:55:PM

And I am on here to see Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugfords) lies are made public knowledge
Afraid you wont Jackie, PPI
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 02:59:PM
Once her lies are made public,everything else should automatically fall into place about this whole shambolic case.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 03:03:PM
That's fair enough.

It does seem odd that any evidence is even required. If it was known about at the original trial and even referred to the judge, then surely the published NOW article is evidence in itself?

The NOW article published so soon after the trial is suggestive of a deal having been made earlier, but it is not conclusive in the absence of some firm evidence about the date the deal was made. That additional evidence was not available at trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 03:36:PM
The NOW article published so soon after the trial is suggestive of a deal having been made earlier, but it is not conclusive in the absence of some firm evidence about the date the deal was made. That additional evidence was not available at trial.
And this is going to get Jeremy off? Pull the other one..
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 03:48:PM
Why are you guilters so rude. Is it because you have no answers?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 03:50:PM
The NOW article published so soon after the trial is suggestive of a deal having been made earlier, but it is not conclusive in the absence of some firm evidence about the date the deal was made. That additional evidence was not available at trial.

And it's taken 32 years for "that additional evidence" to become available?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 03:53:PM
Why are you guilters so rude. Is it because you have no answers?

You have the effrontery to ask THAT when you've got Jackie? I like your sense of humour, Buddy ;)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 03:58:PM
Why are you guilters so rude. Is it because you have no answers?


Ditto
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 04:00:PM
You have the effrontery to ask THAT when you've got Jackie? I like your sense of humour, Buddy ;)
What affrontery?  I asked a question. What do you mean I have got Jackie? .I happen to agree with Jackie that it was a unsound conviction, but you do not have a open mind. blinkered comes to mind.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 04:00:PM
And this is going to get Jeremy off? Pull the other one..

Steve I have just logged on and I cannot believe just how rude you are to NGB.  This is not necessary and I always thought you to be a polite well mannered young man what has changed you is the pressure of work or what?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 04:01:PM
And it's taken 32 years for "that additional evidence" to become available?

It's an absolute disgrace that it's taken that long, keeping an innocent man in prison
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 04:07:PM
Steve I have just logged on and I cannot believe just how rude you are to NGB.  This is not necessary and I always thought you to be a polite well mannered young man what has changed you is the pressure of work or what?
Nasty when you are losing Sue.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 04:08:PM
Steve I have just logged on and I cannot believe just how rude you are to NGB.  This is not necessary and I always thought you to be a polite well mannered young man what has changed you is the pressure of work or what?

Susan every now and then new important evidence comes to light like the evidence Ngb has been talking about which could be a game changer and could lead to Jeremy being released and the guilters start getting ruder

Susan did you ever believe that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) couldn't remember when she signed the deal or didn't read the agreement properly

We are talking about someone's life here, it's not a game
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 04:09:PM
What affrontery?  I asked a question. What do you mean I have got Jackie? .I happen to agree with Jackie that it was a unsound conviction, but you do not have a open mind. blinkered comes to mind.

So just to be clear. Are you saying that it doesn't matter how rude/insulting/vulgar are her comments, because she's on the side you support, it's OK?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 04:09:PM
This has once again gone down like a lead balloon. As Bill Robertson suggested we'll give you until Christmas, and that's being magnanimous after thirty-two years.
Steve here you go again rudeness to NGB he is asked questions by other posters and NGB answers them honestly why the attitude from you he is always so polite to you.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 04:10:PM
Afraid you wont Jackie, PPI

I will do my best Buddy
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 04:11:PM
And this is going to get Jeremy off? Pull the other one..

Your a legal expert now Steve???
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 04:14:PM
Steve here you go again rudeness to NGB he is asked questions by other posters and NGB answers them honestly why the attitude from you he is always so polite to you.
They always resort to this.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 04:14:PM
Once her lies are made public,everything else should automatically fall into place about this whole shambolic case.


Spot on Lookout, like a pack of cards tumbling down
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 04:14:PM
Susan every now and then new important evidence comes to light like the evidence Ngb has been talking about which could be a game changer and could lead to Jeremy being released and the guilters start getting ruder

Susan did you ever believe that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) couldn't remember when she signed the deal or didn't read the agreement properly

We are talking about someone's life here, it's not a game

Jackie I agree with you no I did not believe Julie when she said she did not remember when she signed the deal with the newspaper one does not forget an incident like that too important to her enough money to buy a flat in London.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 04:15:PM
Nasty when you are losing Sue.

Y'know Buddy, it's my experience that Steve has been -and STILL is- the LEAST rude person on this forum bar none. He has taken flak from just about every quarter here. He NEVER resorts to rudeness. However, I'm noticing more and more that what is flagrant rudeness can very quickly become speaking one's mind, according to which side one is on.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: buddy on August 12, 2017, 04:24:PM
Y'know Buddy, it's my experience that Steve has been -and STILL is- the LEAST rude person on this forum bar none. He has taken flak from just about every quarter here. He NEVER resorts to rudeness. However, I'm noticing more and more that what is flagrant rudeness can very quickly become speaking one's mind, according to which side one is on.
Okay Jane. I will observe.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 04:37:PM
Your a legal expert now Steve???

Jackie when steve responded to NGB,s post by saying "pull the other one" that is not speaking your mind as suggested but downright rude and totally uncalled for.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 04:55:PM
Jackie when steve responded to NGB,s post by saying "pull the other one" that is not speaking your mind as suggested but downright rude and totally uncalled for.
Well excuse me for being sceptical. I'm sorry if I caused offence but isn't this just another case of "I know something you don't know.."
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 12, 2017, 05:06:PM
The NOW article published so soon after the trial is suggestive of a deal having been made earlier, but it is not conclusive in the absence of some firm evidence about the date the deal was made. That additional evidence was not available at trial.

Presumably the date in question was after the the trial by jury was scheduled (accepted to take place I mean) but prior to the verdict.

It does appear, with or without evidence, that such a deal was in place prior to the verdict.

If this new evidence is established and accepted, what potential outcome could you foresee? Would it not simply be seen as 'contempt' by JM, rather than actually having a bearing on the conviction of JB?

Is there any precedence for this?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 05:10:PM
Jackie when steve responded to NGB,s post by saying "pull the other one" that is not speaking your mind as suggested but downright rude and totally uncalled for.

Absolutely Susan, as I have said before we are lucky to have a highly qualified legal expert on the forum and I am sure Ngb would post more information if he could
If he says there is new evidence there will be
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 05:18:PM
Presumably the date in question was after the the trial by jury was scheduled (accepted to take place I mean) but prior to the verdict.

It does appear, with or without evidence, that such a deal was in place prior to the verdict.

If this new evidence is established and accepted, what potential outcome could you foresee? Would it not simply be seen as 'contempt' by JM, rather than actually having a bearing on the conviction of JB?

Is there any precedent for this?
The barrister clique got Jeremy Thorpe off in 1979 after it was disclosed a prosecution witness, Peter Bethell, had made a deal to sell his story. Not an exact parallel but there were some similarities.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:21:PM
And this is going to get Jeremy off? Pull the other one..

When have I ever suggested that this in isolation would get Jeremy off? 

Try debating in a grown up manner.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 05:24:PM
When have I ever suggested that this in isolation would get Jeremy off? 

Try debating in a grown up manner.
Would you like a bet Ngb1066 that you will free Jeremy Bamber by Christmas, whatever cards you hold up your sleeve?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:25:PM
This has once again gone down like a lead balloon. As Bill Robertson suggested we'll give you until Christmas, and that's being magnanimous after thirty-two years.

What has gone down like a lead balloon?  It has not even been presented yet.   I am not asking you for any time - I am not involved in the defence legal team so it is nothing to do with me.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 12, 2017, 05:25:PM
Would you like a bet Ngb1066 that you will free Jeremy Bamber by Christmas, whatever cards you hold up your sleeve?

Bah, this all getting a bit silly again.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:26:PM
Y'know Buddy, it's my experience that Steve has been -and STILL is- the LEAST rude person on this forum bar none. He has taken flak from just about every quarter here. He NEVER resorts to rudeness. However, I'm noticing more and more that what is flagrant rudeness can very quickly become speaking one's mind, according to which side one is on.

Steve can be very offensive.  Look up some of his old posts.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 05:29:PM
Some of you are insulting our intelligence, though I'm sorry for any offence caused.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:30:PM
Would you like a bet Ngb1066 that you will free Jeremy Bamber by Christmas, whatever cards you hold up your sleeve?

No I would not like any bet.  In any event I have not claimed that I will free Jeremy Bamber.  As I have made clear I am not a member of his legal team.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 05:32:PM
Some of you are insulting our intelligence, though I'm sorry for any offence caused.

No your not, you are not in the slightest bit interested in the truth
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:33:PM
Well excuse me for being sceptical. I'm sorry if I caused offence but isn't this just another case of "I know something you don't know.."

I have given you the essence of the information I have.  I do not feel able to be more specific about the document as I will not break a confidence, but I have said what the document proves.  This would be a relevant point to be advanced as part of an appeal.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 12, 2017, 05:34:PM
Some of you are insulting our intelligence, though I'm sorry for any offence caused.

I do not believe I am insulting your intelligence.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 05:39:PM
Steve can be very offensive.  Look up some of his old posts.

Can he? I can only respond by saying that in my time I've given him cause enough to be offensive, but never once have I experienced that he's been such with me. He either chose to overlook my rudeness OR didn't see it as such.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 05:41:PM
Bah, this all getting a bit silly again.


LOL! ANOTHER fine mess you've got us into, Ollie ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 05:52:PM
Perhaps Steve needs a break to sunny Blackpool  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 05:55:PM
Well excuse me for being sceptical. I'm sorry if I caused offence but isn't this just another case of "I know something you don't know.."

Steve may I add I know less than you I was pointing out good manners costs nothing. Time will tell as far as the new evidence is concerned.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 05:56:PM
Perhaps Steve needs a break to sunny Blackpool  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Hahaha with you of course on a bike made for two hehehe
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 05:59:PM
Hahaha with you of course on a bike made for two hehehe





Now that would make front page news.Hahahahaha.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 06:13:PM
Not sure how you know she wasn't wearing knickers?


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=julie+mugford+news+of+the+world&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB753GB753&hl=en-GB&tbm=isch&prmd=niv&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFz_Pzl9LVAhXCIJoKHbzMAF0Q_AUIDygC&biw=375&bih=591&dpr=3#imgrc=mtEGFkb6GQrCNM:
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 06:22:PM

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=julie+mugford+news+of+the+world&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB753GB753&hl=en-GB&tbm=isch&prmd=niv&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFz_Pzl9LVAhXCIJoKHbzMAF0Q_AUIDygC&biw=375&bih=591&dpr=3#imgrc=mtEGFkb6GQrCNM:

Never heard of thongs/strings ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 06:33:PM
Never heard of thongs/strings ?

If you used your intelligence you would realise that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) was purposely hitching her clothes up to look like she was wearing no knickers with a very creepy grin on her face

Jane why do you think Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford was hitching her clothes up
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 06:38:PM
Regardless of the lack of underclothing,it was in very poor taste posing like this after such a tragic event. June's description of her rang true did it not ? Harlot !
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 06:40:PM
Never heard of thongs/strings ?

Things only came to the western world in late 1980s not 1986 so she decided she wanted to pose hitching her clothes up showing she was not wearing knickers

What a charmer, Mary Mugford must have been so proud

Fashion designer Rudi Gernreich, who in the mid-1960s created the first topless swimsuit, which he called the monokini, is credited with introducing the modern thong in 1974.[9][10][11][12]

Attitudes toward the wearing of g-strings vary geographically and across societies, as is usual with highly revealing clothing. Prior to its entrance into mainstream fashion, g-strings were primarily worn by exotic dancers. In the modern Western world, g-strings are more commonly marketed towards females but are worn by both sexes. By the late 1980s, the style (for females) had made its way into most of the Western world; thong and g-string underwear became more and more popular through the 1990s due to shows like Baywatch, where numerous females were recorded wearing thong swimsuits.

In the 1990s, the thong began to gain wider acceptance and popularity in the United States as underwear (and, to a lesser extent, as swimwear), especially with women, but also men. In the USA and Europe, the wearing of thongs by men was once mainly limited to the dance belt, the posing pouch for bodybuilders and the realm of male strippers. Men's thongs are now more widely available and commonly worn as day-to-day underwear or swimwear. While some major retailers such as Kmart sell men's thongs,[13] they are not marketed as strongly to men as they are to women. In Europe, thongs have been commonplace for many more years both as underwear and swimwear.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 06:41:PM
Regardless of the lack of underclothing,it was in very poor taste posing like this after such a tragic event. June's description of her rang true did it not ? Harlot !

It's that scary smirk that is so disturbing
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 06:51:PM
It's that scary smirk that is so disturbing





She didn't care,it's as simple as that. That smirk could be wiped off yet,just give it time.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 06:58:PM
If you used your intelligence you would realise that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) was purposely hitching her clothes up to look like she was wearing no knickers with a very creepy grin on her face

Jane why do you think Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford was hitching her clothes up

And if you HAD any intelligence you'd see that with the amount of material in the dress it would be more than possible to pull her knickers to one side for the pose. I'm fully aware of how she wanted it to look and I find it as distasteful now as I did then. Also, I could have saved you the bother of going into the why's and wherefore's of thongs/strings. I lost vast amounts of weight in 1978 and found it difficult to find underwear that stayed up. It was a huge relief when I bought my first thong in 1981.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 07:01:PM
I'll stick to my harvest festivals thank you very much. Comfort,not style for me.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 07:03:PM
I'll stick to my harvest festivals thank you very much. Comfort,not style for me.

Comfort is different for each of us, Lookout...................and I've no idea what are "harvest festivals" ???
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 07:07:PM
And if you HAD any intelligence you'd see that with the amount of material in the dress it would be more than possible to pull her knickers to one side for the pose. I'm fully aware of how she wanted it to look and I find it as distasteful now as I did then. Also, I could have saved you the bother of going into the why's and wherefore's of thongs/strings. I lost vast amounts of weight in 1978 and found it difficult to find underwear that stayed up. It was a huge relief when I bought my first thong in 1981.

Yuk
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 07:07:PM
Comfort is different for each of us, Lookout...................and I've no idea what are "harvest festivals" ???





All is safely gathered in. ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 07:08:PM
I'll stick to my harvest festivals thank you very much. Comfort,not style for me.

You are so funny ;)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 07:10:PM
And if you HAD any intelligence you'd see that with the amount of material in the dress it would be more than possible to pull her knickers to one side for the pose. I'm fully aware of how she wanted it to look and I find it as distasteful now as I did then. Also, I could have saved you the bother of going into the why's and wherefore's of thongs/strings. I lost vast amounts of weight in 1978 and found it difficult to find underwear that stayed up. It was a huge relief when I bought my first thong in 1981.


So whether she wore a thong or not you are agreeing she wanted it to look like she was wearing no knickers

What a vile piece of work, her son and daughter must be proud
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 07:20:PM

So whether she wore a thong or not you are agreeing she wanted it to look like she was wearing no knickers

What a vile piece of work, her son and daughter must be proud

 I think she wanted to look sexy. I think she probably felt sexy. Can there be a much greater aphrodisiac than finding one is the recipient of a small fortune, especially at her age? And she's probably not proud of it, either.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 07:40:PM
I think she wanted to look sexy. I think she probably felt sexy. Can there be a much greater aphrodisiac than finding one is the recipient of a small fortune, especially at her age? And she's probably not proud of it, either.

Do you think all her pupils, fellow teachers and neighbours know about her windfall, visits to the mortuary, cheque book fraud, drugs, robberies etc
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 07:50:PM
Do you think all her pupils, fellow teachers and neighbours know about her windfall, visits to the mortuary, cheque book fraud, drugs, robberies etc

Jackie, I can SMELL your excitement at the thought of being the one who spills the beans. Given that you're a middle aged woman, I find that equally as distasteful as I found Julie's behaviours post trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 07:50:PM
Do you think all her pupils, fellow teachers and neighbours know about her windfall, visits to the mortuary, cheque book fraud, drugs, robberies etc
No but don't some people deserve a second chance?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 08:27:PM
Regardless of the lack of underclothing,it was in very poor taste posing like this after such a tragic event. June's description of her rang true did it not ? Harlot !

Lookout even when I thought Jeremy was guilty I thought Julie's behaviour posing as she did in very bad taste and really showed her true colours as hard and money orientated.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 08:42:PM
Jackie, I can SMELL your excitement at the thought of being the one who spills the beans. Given that you're a middle aged woman, I find that equally as distasteful as I found Julie's behaviours post trial.


Spill the beans to who?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 08:45:PM
Jackie, I can SMELL your excitement at the thought of being the one who spills the beans. Given that you're a middle aged woman, I find that equally as distasteful as I found Julie's behaviours post trial.
This site will be the last place to be notified.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 08:49:PM
No but don't some people deserve a second chance?


Not if you are prolific liar if you put an innocent man in prison

I hope when she went to Canada the British police informed the police in Canada of her crimes

Put it this way if I lived next door to her I would want to know how dangerous she is

You can't choose to court the press just when you want to

She is fair game for any news story
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 08:58:PM

Not if you are prolific liar if you put an innocent man in prison

I hope when she went to Canada the British police informed the police in Canada of her crimes

Put it this way if I lived next door to her I would want to know how dangerous she is

You can't choose to court the press just when you want to

She is fair game for any news story

You appear to be saying that under other circumstances it's acceptable to be a prolific liar?

Whether they did or not, they'll clearly have wasted police time watching her -her life there seems to have been exemplary- unless of course, she and her family have police protection from Jeremy fanatics?

I refuse to believe Julie is regarded as 'dangerous' from something she was involved with 30+ years ago. I'd be more concerned about having a pedophile living next door to me.

Can you give instances of the times -in the last 30 years- that Julie has 'courted the press'.

No one who lives a quiet, respectable and blameless life "is fair game for any news story".

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 08:59:PM
She's certainly not running to the press with any kind of a story now,is she ? Look at all the dollars she's losing/lost.
In view of her position right now and obviously having seen snippets of news in certain areas on the internet,you'd think there'd be a libel case pending from her end in opposition to what's been written about her---------but nothing. If someone wrote about me on the internet,for the world to see,and it wasn't true,I'd be engaging a solicitor----and fast.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 09:05:PM
She's certainly not running to the press with any kind of a story now,is she ? Look at all the dollars she's losing/lost.
In view of her position right now and obviously having seen snippets of news in certain areas on the internet,you'd think there'd be a libel case pending from her end in opposition to what's been written about her---------but nothing. If someone wrote about me on the internet,for the world to see,and it wasn't true,I'd be engaging a solicitor----and fast.

Perhaps dignified silence isn't for you, Lookout?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 09:22:PM
Perhaps dignified silence isn't for you, Lookout?





Not if I saw a world wide accusation against me,I wouldn't be silent,no.
This is a bit more serious than just keeping a " dignified silence " don't you think ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 12, 2017, 09:28:PM
She's certainly not running to the press with any kind of a story now,is she ? Look at all the dollars she's losing/lost.
In view of her position right now and obviously having seen snippets of news in certain areas on the internet,you'd think there'd be a libel case pending from her end in opposition to what's been written about her---------but nothing. If someone wrote about me on the internet,for the world to see,and it wasn't true,I'd be engaging a solicitor----and fast.

I imagine that she put this away a long time ago and sees the criticism as nothing more than a few busy bodies who refuse to accept that Bamber is guilty. She lived it, we didn't - she has her own family now and is getting on with her life as much as she can. I would also guess that she has to take precautions to make herself somewhat anonymous because some people aren't past trying to cause her problems. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 09:38:PM
I imagine that she put this away a long time ago and sees the criticism as nothing more than a few busy bodies who refuse to accept that Bamber is guilty. She lived it, we didn't - she has her own family now and is getting on with her life as much as she can. I would also guess that she has to take precautions to make herself somewhat anonymous because some people aren't past trying to cause her problems.





And I imagine that it looms up periodically just to remind her that she helped put an innocent man away for all these years. I sincerely hope it does. Maybe she's the type who can live with that knowledge,like a lot of other people could.
Why make yourself anonymous if you were telling the truth ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 09:43:PM




And I imagine that it looms up periodically just to remind her that she helped put an innocent man away for all these years. I sincerely hope it does. Maybe she's the type who can live with that knowledge,like a lot of other people could.
Why make yourself anonymous if you were telling the truth ?

Lookout, all this was a VERY long time ago. I imagine it's WAY more important to you -on a daily basis- than it is to her on a yearly basis. You appear to be eaten up with the desire for revenge whilst she's getting on with her life. Why should she not be anonymous?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 12, 2017, 09:44:PM

So whether she wore a thong or not you are agreeing she wanted it to look like she was wearing no knickers

What a vile piece of work, her son and daughter must be proud

These more your style Jackie?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1x0U5F16Baw/Uddzjdgl-MI/AAAAAAAAEXY/sVSk5QTc7gk/s640/blogger-image--757278198.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 09:46:PM




Not if I saw a world wide accusation against me,I wouldn't be silent,no.
This is a bit more serious than just keeping a " dignified silence " don't you think ?

Lookout, you're a fighter. You're always going to need something to fight.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 12, 2017, 09:48:PM




And I imagine that it looms up periodically just to remind her that she helped put an innocent man away for all these years. I sincerely hope it does. Maybe she's the type who can live with that knowledge,like a lot of other people could.
Why make yourself anonymous if you were telling the truth ?

For the sake of your family.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 09:52:PM




And I imagine that it looms up periodically just to remind her that she helped put an innocent man away for all these years. I sincerely hope it does. Maybe she's the type who can live with that knowledge,like a lot of other people could.
Why make yourself anonymous if you were telling the truth ?

Right, so you reckon that because you think she destroyed an innocent man's life 30+ years ago, you're going to do your damnedest to destroy her innocent family now? I'd be very careful, if I were you, what I wished for.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 12, 2017, 10:05:PM
I imagine that she put this away a long time ago and sees the criticism as nothing more than a few busy bodies who refuse to accept that Bamber is guilty. She lived it, we didn't - she has her own family now and is getting on with her life as much as she can. I would also guess that she has to take precautions to make herself somewhat anonymous because some people aren't past trying to cause her problems.

But it hasn't and won't go away because her lies put an innocent man in prison and it looks like she will have the luxury of being on the front pages again if there is prove of when the NOTW deal was signed
As NGB clearly states this would be part of a new appeal
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 12, 2017, 10:10:PM




And I imagine that it looms up periodically just to remind her that she helped put an innocent man away for all these years. I sincerely hope it does. Maybe she's the type who can live with that knowledge,like a lot of other people could.
Why make yourself anonymous if you were telling the truth ?

Lookout I would imagine Julie will have days when she has flashbacks to that time in her life she may have emotions of guilt or sadness or knows but she is bound to relive it if she helped to put an innocent man to prison for life she could have convinced herself he was guilty.  I am sure her family will have some knowledge of the trial just like Colin's family do.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 12, 2017, 10:16:PM
Lookout, you're a fighter. You're always going to need something to fight.






It's a good job I am as I won't tolerate those who walk over others,especially in these days of incompitencies and gormless people.
I never look to fight anyone unless it's called for,but I wouldn't use the word " fight ". Support in this case and many other areas where I can offer input where there's been an injustice. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 12, 2017, 10:26:PM
Lookout I would imagine Julie will have days when she has flashbacks to that time in her life she may have emotions of guilt or sadness or knows but she is bound to relive it if she helped to put an innocent man to prison for life she could have convinced herself he was guilty.  I am sure her family will have some knowledge of the trial just like Colin's family do.

She's already paid a mental price and it's now time to leave her alone.

http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/julie-mugford-afraid-for-her-life.html
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 12, 2017, 10:35:PM





It's a good job I am as I won't tolerate those who walk over others,especially in these days of incompitencies and gormless people.
I never look to fight anyone unless it's called for,but I wouldn't use the word " fight ". Support in this case and many other areas where I can offer input where there's been an injustice.

I think you've made Julie a scapegoat. You appear not to see anything wrong with Jeremy and seem to see him as a naive boy, whilst Jackie has referred to him a "a gorgeous, fit boy". You both lumped on her every bit of blame you can both muster. You say everything she said was lies. She says Jeremy told her everything she said and she just repeated it. You seem to think that a 20 year old made a cuckold of the whole of the Essex Police force. I do NOT believe she was that powerful..................but I DO believe she realized there'd be no help coming from Jeremy and she set out to save her own skin.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 09:25:AM
I think you've made Julie a scapegoat. You appear not to see anything wrong with Jeremy and seem to see him as a naive boy, whilst Jackie has referred to him a "a gorgeous, fit boy". You both lumped on her every bit of blame you can both muster. You say everything she said was lies. She says Jeremy told her everything she said and she just repeated it. You seem to think that a 20 year old made a cuckold of the whole of the Essex Police force. I do NOT believe she was that powerful..................but I DO believe she realized there'd be no help coming from Jeremy and she set out to save her own skin.





First of all I'm of a different era to Jackie so will see things that bit different so far as a person's character,etc,and tend not to go by how a person looks but by their overall persona more or less compared to others of his age at that time.

As for Julie,she was the crafty/cunning one who,because she didn't have the " power " to stand tall and tell the truth,sat back and allowed EP to do everything for her which she was quite happy to go along with.
As for Jeremy not having " helped her ?",it was the other way around,she certainly did him no favours,turning tail and falling-in with what EP had to offer.She betrayed Jeremy big time-------and KNEW it ! Only the thought of big bucks at the end of the trial kept her going,nothing else.  EP had put the words into her mouth and she was more than happy to go along with it.This is where her crafty/cunning side came in and when she was on the stand for the defence,the " favourite " act--------the tears !
She had no problem on the prosecution side ? She KNEW what she was doing and what she HAD to do.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 13, 2017, 10:03:AM
As I have already said, the defence did try to raise this at trial, but were prevented from taking it further because of Julie Mugford's lies about the matter.  The defence tried to raise it again at the 2002 appeal as they had further information, but the Court of Appeal would not grant the order for third party disclosure requested.  There has more recently been further evidence relating to this which could form part of a future appeal.

I am not sure how the NOTW approaching Julie mid trial & offering a conditional post trial story fee, makes Bamber innocent. She had already told 5 people & then approached the police to give a 24 page WS.

It would be very surprising if both the NOTW & Julie's lawyers had illegally signed documents prematurely. Lawyers are employed to ensure this does not happen. However if evidence has surfaced of this, it will be logical that a release on a technicality will be attempted.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 11:05:AM
I think you've made Julie a scapegoat. You appear not to see anything wrong with Jeremy and seem to see him as a naive boy, whilst Jackie has referred to him a "a gorgeous, fit boy". You both lumped on her every bit of blame you can both muster. You say everything she said was lies. She says Jeremy told her everything she said and she just repeated it. You seem to think that a 20 year old made a cuckold of the whole of the Essex Police force. I do NOT believe she was that powerful..................but I DO believe she realized there'd be no help coming from Jeremy and she set out to save her own skin.

I think you've made Julie a scapegoat. You appear not to see anything wrong with Jeremy and seem to see him as a naive boy, whilst Jackie has referred to him a "a gorgeous, fit boy". You both lumped on her every bit of blame you can both muster. You say everything she said was lies. She says Jeremy told her everything she said and she just repeated it. You seem to think that a 20 year old made a cuckold of the whole of the Essex Police force. I do NOT believe she was that powerful..................but I DO believe she realized there'd be no help coming from Jeremy and she set out to save her own skin.

I have quoted facts and will continue to quote facts. Jeremy was a good looking boy in his twenties and was probably cocky because of the female attention he received
It looks like everyone wanted a piece of Jeremy, maybe you were one of them Jane

Being cocky and good looking is not a crime and if Jeremy wasn't such a catch maybe he wouldn't have had the nasty  Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) try to smother him with a pillow and wish him dead

I will fight to get to the truth in this case and will update every newspaper in Winnipeg when any new information becomes available about the case i.e. The latest on the NOTW deal.
If there is nothing to hide it's about time every single statement Julie made

I predict that when the next documentary is shown here and Canada Julie will be looking to blame the police for being forced to give evidence against Jeremy

Jane we can all use newspapers to spread the word can't we
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 12:33:PM
I have quoted facts and will continue to quote facts. Jeremy was a good looking boy in his twenties and was probably cocky because of the female attention he received
It looks like everyone wanted a piece of Jeremy, maybe you were one of them Jane

Being cocky and good looking is not a crime and if Jeremy wasn't such a catch maybe he wouldn't have had the nasty  Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) try to smother him with a pillow and wish him dead

I will fight to get to the truth in this case and will update every newspaper in Winnipeg when any new information becomes available about the case i.e. The latest on the NOTW deal.
If there is nothing to hide it's about time every single statement Julie made

I predict that when the next documentary is shown here and Canada Julie will be looking to blame the police for being forced to give evidence against Jeremy

Jane we can all use newspapers to spread the word can't we


I guess you using a private Twitter account lets you claim all sorts of BS - you carry on spreading the word where no one can see it!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 12:38:PM
But it hasn't and won't go away because her lies put an innocent man in prison and it looks like she will have the luxury of being on the front pages again if there is prove of when the NOTW deal was signed
As NGB clearly states this would be part of a new appeal

No, but she can get on with her life the best way she can and try and protect her children from the more obsessed (fan) supporter. Whether she signed the deal before of after, doesn't make her testimony lies and as far as I can see, this is a LONG way from any appeal or even CCRC submission. Any new submissions would have to be pretty compelling, especially as it's been insinuated that a respected pathologist lied to the point where he hid fresh injuries on Sheila's body.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 12:41:PM
I guess you using a private Twitter account lets you claim all sorts of BS - you carry on spreading the word where no one can see it!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Absolutely Caroline I will continue to reach the 2000 documentary makers, barristers, solicitors and news people

As you know it's been very successful
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 12:45:PM
No, but she can get on with her life the best way she can and try and protect her children from the more obsessed (fan) supporter. Whether she signed the deal before of after, doesn't make her testimony lies and as far as I can see, this is a LONG way from any appeal or even CCRC submission. Any new submissions would have to be pretty compelling, especially as it's been insinuated that a respected pathologist lied to the point where he hid fresh injuries on Sheila's body.

I didn't know you were criminal law specialist
You must have been away from the forum when Ngb made to very clear new evidence relating Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugfords) deal with the NOTW 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 12:48:PM
Absolutely Caroline I will continue to reach the 2000 documentary makers, barristers, solicitors and news people

As you know it's been very successful

No, I don't know that at all - no one here does. All they see is you giving it large from an account that isn't accountable. No new people can see what you post - that's NOT campaigning. Who's making this documentary Jackie? Are these the guys? Pipedreams@livingincuckoo.com?  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 12:52:PM
I didn't know you were criminal law specialist
You must have been away from the forum when Ngb made to very clear new evidence relating Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugfords) deal with the NOTW

OK, let me spell it out for you in SIMPLE terms, whether or not Julie signed the NOTW deal before or after the trial ended, does NOT make Jeremy innocent or what she told the olice about his involvement ...... a lie! She me where NGB stated that the NOTW deal made Jeremy innocent or Julie's testimony about his involvement, a lie? Also, it was claimed that the defence knew nothing about the deal and yet Jeremy spoke about it - stating that when released, he would get more!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 12:56:PM
No, I don't know that at all - no one here does. All they see is you giving it large from an account that isn't accountable. No new people can see what you post - that's NOT campaigning. Who's making this documentary Jackie? Are these the guys? Pipedreams@livingincuckoo.com?  ;D ;D


My twitter account was set up only to reach professional people who could be useful regarding the case so don't worry yourself, the account was not set up for the likes of you or Jane J
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 01:02:PM
OK, let me spell it out for you in SIMPLE terms, whether or not Julie signed the NOTW deal before or after the trial ended, does NOT make Jeremy innocent or what she told the olice about his involvement ...... a lie! She me where NGB stated that the NOTW deal made Jeremy innocent or Julie's testimony about his involvement, a lie? Also, it was claimed that the defence knew nothing about the deal and yet Jeremy spoke about it - stating that when released, he would get more!

I am very well of the significance of when the NOTW deal was signed and if I need any legal advice I won't be coming to you

Something I am interested is, are you an expert on knowing when someone is telling the truth or telling
lies?

I.e Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 01:14:PM

My twitter account was set up only to reach professional people who could be useful regarding the case so don't worry yourself, the account was not set up for the likes of you or Jane J

Sniff ......... sniff - I can smell BS - Oh Hi there Jackie  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 01:16:PM
I am very well of the significance of when the NOTW deal was signed and if I need any legal advice I won't be coming to you

Something I am interested is, are you an expert on knowing when someone is telling the truth or telling
lies?

I.e Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford)

I'm pretty good at sussing it out JACKIE!  ;) ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 01:27:PM
Sniff ......... sniff - I can smell BS - Oh Hi there Jackie  ;D ;D


The laughs on you Caroline as per usual because anyone genuine can look at my twitter account whenever they like
But your not genuine are you
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 01:27:PM
She's already paid a mental price and it's now time to leave her alone.

http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/julie-mugford-afraid-for-her-life.html

Steve I agree I think Julie will have paid a mental price but as she lives in Canada I doubt she will read what the forum says about her.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 01:40:PM
Steve I agree I think Julie will have paid a mental price but as she lives in Canada I doubt she will read what the forum says about her.
I think your wrong Susan, I think she probably reads it frequently
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 01:43:PM
I think your wrong Susan, I think she probably reads it frequently

Hi Jackie
you could well be right but I do think she has a close supporter on here defending her.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 02:03:PM
Hi Jackie
you could well be right but I do think she has a close supporter on here defending her.



It was a few years ago that her children's social media posts where found, then hers and her husbands.  She was vilified by some Bamber supporters.... they found the school she worked at as Head Teacher (I think) and continued to post dreadful things online about her.

She is well aware of everything that's going on, as are her family and no doubt friends.  Word gets around the schools pretty darn quick too.  How much of an impact it's having on her now is debatable.

Who knows what's going through her mind now.  Is it Karma?  I don't know.  Could she ever be persuaded to return - I don't know.  She does visit the UK and at the time had friends still based here. 

If she did return, the consequences are pretty dire for her.  Jeremy suffers, yes, without question, however, she does not have piece of mind. How can she?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 02:11:PM


It was a few years ago that her children's social media posts where found, then hers and her husbands.  She was vilified by some Bamber supporters.... they found the school she worked at as Head Teacher (I think) and continued to post dreadful things online about her.

She is well aware of everything that's going on, as are her family and no doubt friends.  Word gets around the schools pretty darn quick too.  How much of an impact it's having on her now is debatable.

Who knows what's going through her mind now.  Is it Karma?  I don't know.  Could she ever be persuaded to return - I don't know.  She does visit the UK and at the time had friends still based here. 

If she did return, the consequences are pretty dire for her.  Jeremy suffers, yes, without question, however, she does not have piece of mind. How can she?

AA
that is very interesting I did not know that but sadly her family are paying the price for her actions at the trial and the deal with the newspaper where she flashes her thighs.  I have always been convinced she has friends on the forum who defend her with a passion she will never return she will suffer inwardly the older she gets the worse it will be. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 02:11:PM
Hi Jackie
you could well be right but I do think she has a close supporter on here defending her.

I agree
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 02:20:PM
Can he? I can only respond by saying that in my time I've given him cause enough to be offensive, but never once have I experienced that he's been such with me. He either chose to overlook my rudeness OR didn't see it as such.

I think you may have forgotten Jane.  Steve has been extremely offensive in the past to several members, not just to me, and has been rightly challenged on it by others, including by you.  Have a look at this thread - it is quite long I am afraid but it is worth reading to the end.  There are also some good points raised in it about the case which newer members might find interesting: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.510.html

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 02:42:PM
I think you may have forgotten Jane.  Steve has been extremely offensive in the past to several members, not just to me, and has been rightly challenged on it by others, including by you.  Have a look at this thread - it is quite long I am afraid but it is worth reading to the end.  There are also some good points raised in it about the case which newer members might find interesting: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.510.html







What ngb noted in the link is similar to what I've posted on another page earlier today.    She was left with very little choice but to take the deals as offered.   Is there not a huge question mark surrounding this and the jury's decision ? 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 02:43:PM






What ngb noted in the link is similar to what I've posted on another page earlier today.    She was left with very little choice but to take the deals as offered.   Is there not a huge question mark surrounding this and the jury's decision ?

I agree with you.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 02:58:PM
I agree with you.






We are aware of this..... this being the only thing Jeremy was certain of.  Until many years later he was blind to the truth of what happened that night.

Along with the NOTW agreement, if evidence was found of 'other agreements', then could that be used to support the current research?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 03:22:PM





We are aware of this..... this being the only thing Jeremy was certain of.  Until many years later he was blind to the truth of what happened that night.

Along with the NOTW agreement, if evidence was found of 'other agreements', then could that be used to support the current research?

Yes it could.  It was what I touched upon in posts several years ago.  It was not only the NOW deal which was concealed from the jury, it was the circumstances surrounding the handling of Julie Mugford by the police in the key stages before the trial.  Overall the jury were presented with a very misleading impression and had they known the truth it is very likely they would have viewed her evidence in a very different light.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 03:31:PM

My twitter account was set up only to reach professional people who could be useful regarding the case so don't worry yourself, the account was not set up for the likes of you or Jane J

If only a favoured few have access, how do you know if it's reaching 'professional people'? And how do YOU know if they're telling the truth?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 03:32:PM

The laughs on you Caroline as per usual because anyone genuine can look at my twitter account whenever they like
But your not genuine are you

So how do you suss out the -allegedly- genuine, from those who aren't?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 03:33:PM
Yes it could.  It was what I touched upon in posts several years ago.  It was not only the NOW deal which was concealed from the jury, it was the circumstances surrounding the handling of Julie Mugford by the police in the key stages before the trial.  Overall the jury were presented with a very misleading impression and had they known the truth it is very likely they would have viewed her evidence in a very different light.





Totally agree.   Looking for a paper trail to the Police agreement. 🙂

I've got a copy of Mrs Speakmans Will and I along with Jeremy questioned the families inheritance and value.
I recall the selling of shares... the family took everything they could (as you know).

Both Julie and his family had motive.... which was withheld from the Jury and possibly the Judge. (But that's another story).
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 03:39:PM
Yes it could.  It was what I touched upon in posts several years ago.  It was not only the NOW deal which was concealed from the jury, it was the circumstances surrounding the handling of Julie Mugford by the police in the key stages before the trial.  Overall the jury were presented with a very misleading impression and had they known the truth it is very likely they would have viewed her evidence in a very different light.
Thanks Neil you are such a great guy and one I hold with the utmost respect, I have taken your advice. 

Anyway, your last post I have to agree with, but it hasn't just happened in the Bamber case, it's an on going problem, evidence withheld or bartering is a natural process in the justice system.  How many times do we hear about criminals not having their past convictions revealed, or take my son in law, if he had gone to jury and not pleaded guilty he had a 50/50 chance of getting off with the police not having the privilege of using the second girl who came forward.  I'm not defending Julie here, my own personal opinion is I cannot defend how she acted and I think she should have got time herself, today I think she would have been dealt with differently, having said that, I think she was coached, aren't they all both defence and prosecution, more so back then, but I thought she was re living a lot of truth in her statements with coaching sorry Neil.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 03:44:PM
I think your wrong Susan, I think she probably reads it frequently

In that case, Jackie, How's this?

Dear Julie,

I'm fully aware that it must have been a dreadful experience for you 30+ years ago. I feel sure you don't see your behaviour then as enhancing your reputation, but I feel sure we've all done things we're not exactly proud to own now. I perfectly well understand that it's something you probably wish to put behind you. I can only apologize for those members of this forum who wish to destroy the life you've made for yourself, as well as breaking up your marriage and the trust your children have in you. I hope your life continues without interruption.

Jane J.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 04:11:PM
Thanks Neil you are such a great guy and one I hold with the utmost respect, I have taken your advice. 

Anyway, your last post I have to agree with, but it hasn't just happened in the Bamber case, it's an on going problem, evidence withheld or bartering is a natural process in the justice system.  How many times do we hear about criminals not having their past convictions revealed, or take my son in law, if he had gone to jury and not pleaded guilty he had a 50/50 chance of getting off with the police not having the privilege of using the second girl who came forward.  I'm not defending Julie here, my own personal opinion is I cannot defend how she acted and I think she should have got time herself, today I think she would have been dealt with differently, having said that, I think she was coached, aren't they all both defence and prosecution, more so back then, but I thought she was re living a lot of truth in her statements with coaching sorry Neil.

Justice, I feel exactly the same. I can't condone ANYTHING of her behaviours at the time but because of the spite against her on this forum, I feel compelled to defend the person she is now. Much as her persecutors would have us believe she was in control, I don't believe a girl of her age would have had the experience to call the shots and I don't believe her to have been practiced in witchcraft and capable of hypnotizing EP, counsel, judge and jury. IF she pulled wool over anyone's eyes, it was due to the incompetency of the experts who allowed it to happen.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 04:13:PM
I think you may have forgotten Jane.  Steve has been extremely offensive in the past to several members, not just to me, and has been rightly challenged on it by others, including by you.  Have a look at this thread - it is quite long I am afraid but it is worth reading to the end.  There are also some good points raised in it about the case which newer members might find interesting: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.510.html
This is what I wrote on 2nd May 2013, which you have described as "extremely offensive":

I'm afraid you've got carried away with your statement whoever you are; whilst making sense in the initial stages you drifted off into flights of fancy which make a mockery of your whole argument. It starts to go awry from the second paragraph after you assert that to be guilty Julie must "provide some positive assistance" when there was absolutely none to the Jeremy supporters' chagrin: she neither provided Jeremy with an alibi nor the infamous sleeping tablets which were for Julie's sole use during one of the most stressful periods of a teacher's career, namely teaching practice, and it is dishonourable of you if you hold a position in law to suggest otherwise. It was Jeremy who imported cannabis stuffed in toothpaste tubes from Amsterdam and not Julie, and though she sold the drug on university premises at Jeremy's behest this does not necessarily bar any teacher from a career; indeed there are male teachers who have abused female pupils who have appealed to the Secretary of State and have been further allowed to teach in an all-male environment, which I know anecdotally from colleagues.

On the day of the murders Julie was not warned in advance as you suggest; after a hard day's work she attempted to decipher yet another of Jeremy's riddles with the "tonight's the night..it's now or never" clue which was symptomatic of Jeremy's infantile manner of speaking for the two years she had known him with his "let's get the ball rolling" idiom used ad nauseum, his "bye honey, love you lots",his sending her roses and booking the bridal suite at a top London hotel interspersed with remarks of the crudest calibre, reminding us of Gresham's head Mr. Bruce Logie Lockhart's aphorism that Jeremy was "a relentless tease". If the head of a public school came to that conclusion then don't expect the product of an all girl's grammar school to be any the wiser in interpreting Jeremy's remarks.

Post-murders we have Julie realizing that Jeremy did have a hand in the murders, whether he was the sole perpetrator or proxy driver, which as Mike suggested the" trick of the light story" gave rise to, but it was Julie who carried the guilt for both of them as the murders for Jeremy were not much different than swatting flies. You misrepresent the chronology because Julie told several people including the Bishop's and Michael Deckers the manager of the Frog and Beans before she voluntarily agreed to visit the Police. Had she not done so of course the trial would have proceeded without Julie on the basis of the silencer and blood evidence pushed by the relatives and going on the summing up of the judge Julie's evidence anyway would not have been paramount.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 04:21:PM
Justice, I feel exactly the same. I can't condone ANYTHING of her behaviours at the time but because of the spite against her on this forum, I feel compelled to defend the person she is now. Much as her persecutors would have us believe she was in control, I don't believe a girl of her age would have had the experience to call the shots and I don't believe her to have been practiced in witchcraft and capable of hypnotizing EP, counsel, judge and jury. IF she pulled wool over anyone's eyes, it was due to the incompetency of the experts who allowed it to happen.
Great post Jane, I do agree being such a young age who knows, the defence have a lot to answer for, they could have asked Julie lots of searching questions. The prosecution were on catch up and I would have thought that they realised Julie wasn't the star witness they thought hence the coaching, it happens all the time and will continue to happen.  At the end of the day I don't think Julie was good for them and would have been relieved how she survived the defence, the prosecution had the luxury in not only showing Bamber did it, i think the most damming was showing Sheila didn't do it.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 04:36:PM
I can't forgive anyone who was part and parcel of a plan to put someone away for the rest of their lives. The woman KNEW what she was doing and should have questioned the tactics that were put in place to have made JB's incarceration possible,and without proof !!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 04:49:PM
I can't forgive anyone who was part and parcel of a plan to put someone away for the rest of their lives. The woman KNEW what she was doing and should have questioned the tactics that were put in place to have made JB's incarceration possible,and without proof !!
I think Lookout, she was frightened because the police could have built a case against her, it was a way out for her and they would have put pressure on her to cooperate, look how the police are using known sex offenders even now as snitches, favours will have to be given back in return for these despicable people. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 04:58:PM
If only a favoured few have access, how do you know if it's reaching 'professional people'? And how do YOU know if they're telling the truth?

Every time I tweet is reaches my 2000 followers also because these 2000 followers follow me I can private message every one of them
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 04:58:PM
Thanks Neil you are such a great guy and one I hold with the utmost respect, I have taken your advice. 

Anyway, your last post I have to agree with, but it hasn't just happened in the Bamber case, it's an on going problem, evidence withheld or bartering is a natural process in the justice system.  How many times do we hear about criminals not having their past convictions revealed, or take my son in law, if he had gone to jury and not pleaded guilty he had a 50/50 chance of getting off with the police not having the privilege of using the second girl who came forward.  I'm not defending Julie here, my own personal opinion is I cannot defend how she acted and I think she should have got time herself, today I think she would have been dealt with differently, having said that, I think she was coached, aren't they all both defence and prosecution, more so back then, but I thought she was re living a lot of truth in her statements with coaching sorry Neil.

Thank you for your kind words justice.

You make good points about what goes on in the criminal justice system.  I agree that just because Julie Mugford was coached (and pressured) by the police, and had other incentives, does not prove that her evidence was false, but my own view is that if the jury had known the full facts they would have been very wary about relying upon the evidence.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 04:58:PM
Great post Jane, I do agree being such a young age who knows, the defence have a lot to answer for, they could have asked Julie lots of searching questions. The prosecution were on catch up and I would have thought that they realised Julie wasn't the star witness they thought hence the coaching, it happens all the time and will continue to happen.  At the end of the day I don't think Julie was good for them and would have been relieved how she survived the defence, the prosecution had the luxury in not only showing Bamber did it, i think the most damming was showing Sheila didn't do it.






But, what if the police and family 'needed' her to play ball?

Imagine she received no phone call from Jeremy, she slept with him after the murders.... he dumped her!

She had stood by him through the funeral etc, he's about to inherit a huge sum and power... with her support, and he dumps her?   She'd be so upset.

Both the police and family knew she was vulnerable, emotionally and financially.

What if Jeremy had to be convicted at any cost?

Both the Police and the family had Julie.  Pay to play.  It's a common practice especially in government and practised so often amongst the higher echelons in life.   It's a cover up from start to finish.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:01:PM
So how do you suss out the -allegedly- genuine, from those who aren't?


Very easily by checking out the people who follow them and checking email addresses to which company they are associated with

If someone makes up a fake profile with not many followers I spot it immediately
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:02:PM
Every time I tweet is reaches my 2000 followers also because these 2000 followers follow me I can private message every one of them

Hmm,but I only have your word for that and your reputation as a reinventor of truth precedes you.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:04:PM





But, what if the police and family 'needed' her to play ball?

Imagine she received no phone call from Jeremy, she slept with him after the murders.... he dumped her!

She had stood by him through the funeral etc, he's about to inherit a huge sum and power... with her support, and he dumps her?   She'd be so upset.

Both the police and family knew she was vulnerable, emotionally and financially.

What if Jeremy had to be convicted at any cost?

Both the Police and the family had Julie.  Pay to play.  It's a common practice especially in government and practised so often amongst the higher echelons in life.   It's a cover up from start to finish.

"What if's" are hypothetical, though, aren't they?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 05:11:PM





But, what if the police and family 'needed' her to play ball?

Imagine she received no phone call from Jeremy, she slept with him after the murders.... he dumped her!

She had stood by him through the funeral etc, he's about to inherit a huge sum and power... with her support, and he dumps her?   She'd be so upset.

Both the police and family knew she was vulnerable, emotionally and financially.

What if Jeremy had to be convicted at any cost?

Both the Police and the family had Julie.  Pay to play.  It's a common practice especially in government and practised so often amongst the higher echelons in life.   It's a cover up from start to finish.







They certainly could not afford for her to be on Jeremy's side and tell the truth.   They were left with no choice but to use her.... so the coaching began and upon his conviction was paid by all three.
Whether her statement was deemed convincing enough, I don't think was an issue so much as whether or not she told the truth and was supported by Jeremy.  He had not offered her money or a new life as the others had.   If he had some foresight, or was guilty, I do believe he would have paid anything to get her on his side.  But he didn't! Because he didn't need to buy her - he trusted she would just tell the truth.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:12:PM
In that case, Jackie, How's this?

Dear Julie,

I'm fully aware that it must have been a dreadful experience for you 30+ years ago. I feel sure you don't see your behaviour then as enhancing your reputation, but I feel sure we've all done things we're not exactly proud to own now. I perfectly well understand that it's something you probably wish to put behind you. I can only apologize for those members of this forum who wish to destroy the life you've made for yourself, as well as breaking up your marriage and the trust your children have in you. I hope your life continues without interruption.

Jane J.

Dear Julie,

You obviously have a spiteful jealous wicked nature to set someone up who you claim to have loved
You have had 30 years to put the record straight but you decided you would keep Jeremy in prison for the rest of his life.
There is no punishment harsh enough for you to be given unless it's 30 years like Jeremy has done.  May you rot in prison for taking away the chance for Jeremy never being able to have children and when you sit in your cell maybe then you will realise what you have done to an innocent man and the shame you have bought on your own family
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 05:13:PM
"What if's" are hypothetical, though, aren't they?





They are - you're right!

Then I'll change that to:   Can I suggest you look at it from another point of view.

Does that make it any clearer?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 05:15:PM
I think Lookout, she was frightened because the police could have built a case against her, it was a way out for her and they would have put pressure on her to cooperate, look how the police are using known sex offenders even now as snitches, favours will have to be given back in return for these despicable people.





Strange how the thought of £25,000 suddenly makes things look a lot more bearable,isn't it ? Money,or someones life ? That tells me the character of a person.

As for the £10,000 dropsy to a sex offender-------I'm with Nazir here. It was despicable.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:18:PM
I think you may have forgotten Jane.  Steve has been extremely offensive in the past to several members, not just to me, and has been rightly challenged on it by others, including by you.  Have a look at this thread - it is quite long I am afraid but it is worth reading to the end.  There are also some good points raised in it about the case which newer members might find interesting: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.510.html

Thank-you for the link, Neil. Am presently ploughing my way through Ann's WS. My opinion of her hasn't changed anymore than has my opinion of Julie.

I have certainly had my spats with Steve -probably more than he has had with me- however, reflecting on a 1 to 10 scale of offensiveness, I would never rate him as achieving more than 4..................although I MAY have, at the time.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 05:18:PM
Thank you for your kind words justice.

You make good points about what goes on in the criminal justice system.  I agree that just because Julie Mugford was coached (and pressured) by the police, and had other incentives, does not prove that her evidence was false, but my own view is that if the jury had known the full facts they would have been very wary about relying upon the evidence.
Thanks NGB, I have to agree, he might have got off if Julie had been exposed more, I think the prosecution used the tactic well with Julie, making her tearful and not an accommodating witness to the defence, they would not have liked her past that's for sure.  It is ultimately important that the prosecution are honest and fully disclose relivent information, the defence rely on this information, the sad part about any trial and one thing that cannot be avoided, the prosecution and police will always have first hand knowledge of any evidence to be used at trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:19:PM
Great post Jane, I do agree being such a young age who knows, the defence have a lot to answer for, they could have asked Julie lots of searching questions. The prosecution were on catch up and I would have thought that they realised Julie wasn't the star witness they thought hence the coaching, it happens all the time and will continue to happen.  At the end of the day I don't think Julie was good for them and would have been relieved how she survived the defence, the prosecution had the luxury in not only showing Bamber did it, i think the most damming was showing Sheila didn't do it.

What the young girl who got her kicks by offering to view the children's bodies with bullet holes in them and the young evil girl who stood next to Colin Caffell at the funeral when she 'knew' her boyfriend was responsible

Julie will go Dow in history as just like Maxine Carr there are both evil to the core
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:21:PM
Dear Julie,

You obviously have a spiteful jealous wicked nature to set someone up who you claim to have loved
You have had 30 years to put the record straight but you decided you would keep Jeremy in prison for the rest of his life.
There is no punishment harsh enough for you to be given unless it's 30 years like Jeremy has done.  May you rot in prison for taking away the chance for Jeremy never being able to have children and when you sit in your cell maybe then you will realise what you have done to an innocent man and the shame you have bought on your own family

I think that says much more of your character and the depths to which you're prepared to stoop for your "gorgeous, fit boy".
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:22:PM
I think Lookout, she was frightened because the police could have built a case against her, it was a way out for her and they would have put pressure on her to cooperate, look how the police are using known sex offenders even now as snitches, favours will have to be given back in return for these despicable people.

Don't make excuses for her, she needs a lifetime in prison to set an example
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 05:23:PM





But, what if the police and family 'needed' her to play ball?

Imagine she received no phone call from Jeremy, she slept with him after the murders.... he dumped her!

She had stood by him through the funeral etc, he's about to inherit a huge sum and power... with her support, and he dumps her?   She'd be so upset.

Both the police and family knew she was vulnerable, emotionally and financially.

What if Jeremy had to be convicted at any cost?

Both the Police and the family had Julie.  Pay to play.  It's a common practice especially in government and practised so often amongst the higher echelons in life.   It's a cover up from start to finish.
Have to agree A A, I cannot defend Julie in what actions she took, I think she was very vulnerable and an easy target because of her past, I thought the defence did a poor job of such a witness.  Have you seen Jeremy's trial statements and cross examining AA, they are not up here, any reason why not?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:23:PM
What the young girl who got her kicks by offering to view the children's bodies with bullet holes in them and the young evil girl who stood next to Colin Caffell at the funeral when she 'knew' her boyfriend was responsible

Julie will go Dow in history as just like Maxine Carr there are both evil to the core

Go on then, give us a list of everyone who was available, convenient, offered, and was deemed suitable to do the identification.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 05:24:PM
Thank you for your kind words justice.

You make good points about what goes on in the criminal justice system.  I agree that just because Julie Mugford was coached (and pressured) by the police, and had other incentives, does not prove that her evidence was false, but my own view is that if the jury had known the full facts they would have been very wary about relying upon the evidence.
The jury were directed by Mr. Justice Drake to be wary so this does rather nullify your point.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 05:25:PM
Don't make excuses for her, she needs a lifetime in prison to set an example
She needed prison I have to agree, but not the same punishment as Bamber, he pulled the trigger and did the deed.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 05:26:PM






They certainly could not afford for her to be on Jeremy's side and tell the truth.   They were left with no choice but to use her.... so the coaching began and upon his conviction was paid by all three.
Whether her statement was deemed convincing enough, I don't think was an issue so much as whether or not she told the truth and was supported by Jeremy.  He had not offered her money or a new life as the others had.   If he had some foresight, or was guilty, I do believe he would have paid anything to get her on his side.  But he didn't! Because he didn't need to buy her - he trusted she would just tell the truth.
You've got the chronology so completely wrong this is beginning to hurt..
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:26:PM
Hmm,but I only have your word for that and your reputation as a reinventor of truth precedes you.

Your trying to cause trouble as per usual every single day
Check with Ngb
But you won't will you because you will look a total idiot again
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:27:PM




They are - you're right!

Then I'll change that to:   Can I suggest you look at it from another point of view.

Does that make it any clearer?

Well, if you can give me a clear, logical and feasible reason WHY they needed to frame Jeremy when they had Sheila, maybe it will be possible for me to look at it from another point of view.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 05:27:PM




Totally agree.   Looking for a paper trail to the Police agreement. 🙂

I've got a copy of Mrs Speakmans Will and I along with Jeremy questioned the families inheritance and value.
I recall the selling of shares... the family took everything they could (as you know).

Both Julie and his family had motive.... which was withheld from the Jury and possibly the Judge. (But that's another story).
Everything was bequeathed to her two blood daughters: Pamela Boutflour and June Bamber.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 05:28:PM
Your trying to cause trouble as per usual every single day
Check with Ngb
But you won't will you because you will look a total idiot again
Try to be civilised instead of calling someone a idiot.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:29:PM
Your trying to cause trouble as per usual every single day
Check with Ngb
But you won't will you because you will look a total idiot again

 Well, well, well. So you've never told a lie on this forum? Is that right, Jackie?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:32:PM
Have to agree A A, I cannot defend Julie in what actions she took, I think she was very vulnerable and an easy target because of her past, I thought the defence did a poor job of such a witness.  Have you seen Jeremy's trial statements and cross examining AA, they are not up here, any reason why not?

This highly intelligent girl studying for a degree who trawled Oxford Stree with a stolen cheque book

Vulnerable are you joking
That's why she hitched her clothes up to show. No knickers for 25,000
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:35:PM
Go on then, give us a list of everyone who was available, convenient, offered, and was deemed suitable to do the identification.
We have been down this road
There were numerous people
The 'murderers' assistant got her kicks out of seeing children with bullet holes in them
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:36:PM
Well, well, well. So you've never told a lie on this forum? Is that right, Jackie?
Have u checked yet troublemaker and then I want an apology
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 05:37:PM
This highly intelligent girl studying for a degree who trawled Oxford Stree with a stolen cheque book

Vulnerable are you joking
That's why she hitched her clothes up to show. No knickers for 25,000

She certainly is worthy of a certain amount of criticism.

Surely this pales in significance when compared to Jeremy, who murdered five people?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 05:37:PM
This highly intelligent girl studying for a degree who trawled Oxford Stree with a stolen cheque book

Vulnerable are you joking
That's why she hitched her clothes up to show. No knickers for 25,000
Any photo's of her Sharon Stone performance?  Or is it just your usual gossip.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:37:PM
Try to be civilised instead of calling someone a idiot.

She knows full well about my twitter account and is once again trying to disrupt the forum
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:38:PM
Have u checked yet troublemaker and then I want an apology

And I'm up to all the tricks you use to deflect from answering the allegation.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 05:39:PM
This is what I wrote on 2nd May 2013, which you have described as "extremely offensive":

I'm afraid you've got carried away with your statement whoever you are; whilst making sense in the initial stages you drifted off into flights of fancy which make a mockery of your whole argument. It starts to go awry from the second paragraph after you assert that to be guilty Julie must "provide some positive assistance" when there was absolutely none to the Jeremy supporters' chagrin: she neither provided Jeremy with an alibi nor the infamous sleeping tablets which were for Julie's sole use during one of the most stressful periods of a teacher's career, namely teaching practice, and it is dishonourable of you if you hold a position in law to suggest otherwise. It was Jeremy who imported cannabis stuffed in toothpaste tubes from Amsterdam and not Julie, and though she sold the drug on university premises at Jeremy's behest this does not necessarily bar any teacher from a career; indeed there are male teachers who have abused female pupils who have appealed to the Secretary of State and have been further allowed to teach in an all-male environment, which I know anecdotally from colleagues.

On the day of the murders Julie was not warned in advance as you suggest; after a hard day's work she attempted to decipher yet another of Jeremy's riddles with the "tonight's the night..it's now or never" clue which was symptomatic of Jeremy's infantile manner of speaking for the two years she had known him with his "let's get the ball rolling" idiom used ad nauseum, his "bye honey, love you lots",his sending her roses and booking the bridal suite at a top London hotel interspersed with remarks of the crudest calibre, reminding us of Gresham's head Mr. Bruce Logie Lockhart's aphorism that Jeremy was "a relentless tease". If the head of a public school came to that conclusion then don't expect the product of an all girl's grammar school to be any the wiser in interpreting Jeremy's remarks.

Post-murders we have Julie realizing that Jeremy did have a hand in the murders, whether he was the sole perpetrator or proxy driver, which as Mike suggested the" trick of the light story" gave rise to, but it was Julie who carried the guilt for both of them as the murders for Jeremy were not much different than swatting flies. You misrepresent the chronology because Julie told several people including the Bishop's and Michael Deckers the manager of the Frog and Beans before she voluntarily agreed to visit the Police. Had she not done so of course the trial would have proceeded without Julie on the basis of the silencer and blood evidence pushed by the relatives and going on the summing up of the judge Julie's evidence anyway would not have been paramount.


I provided a link to the old thread in case some members would like to have a look.  You have selected one of your posts directed at me, but not others to me and to others which were far more offensive.  You were strongly challenged not only by me but by other members who were frankly shocked at your obnoxious behaviour.  I do not propose to rerun the arguments here, there is no point.  If anyone is interested they can read the linked thread and form their own view.  There are also contained in the thread some interesting discussions which are relevant to discussions on threads recently.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:39:PM
She needed prison I have to agree, but not the same punishment as Bamber, he pulled the trigger and did the deed.
How many years then for putting an innocent man in prison
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 05:41:PM
She certainly is worthy of a certain amount of criticism.

Surely this pales in significance when compared to Jeremy, who murdered five people?

But it's so obvious JB is innocent set up by thriving greedy relatives and the prolific liar Muggy
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:42:PM
She knows full well about my twitter account and is once again trying to disrupt the forum

OH!!! The arrogance! The egoism!! "MY TWITTER ACCOUNT" I don't even know what a "twitter account" is. I don't live in your world of deception.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 05:42:PM
The jury were directed by Mr. Justice Drake to be wary so this does rather nullify your point.

It does not. 

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 05:45:PM
We have been down this road
There were numerous people
The 'murderers' assistant got her kicks out of seeing children with bullet holes in them

You're the one who keeps spouting about it. It seems that when it comes to providing evidential FACT, you back off.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 05:51:PM
I provided a link to the old thread in case some members would like to have a look.  You have selected one of your posts directed at me, but not others to me and to others which were far more offensive.  You were strongly challenged not only by me but by other members who were frankly shocked at your obnoxious behaviour.  I do not propose to rerun the arguments here, there is no point.  If anyone is interested they can read the linked thread and form their own view.  There are also contained in the thread some interesting discussions which are relevant to discussions on threads recently.
I found the above post, which was the first one I came to (in the link your posted) after about five minutes of trawling. I'm not complaining about my valuable time, unlike some who never let us forget how precious a commodity it is to them.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 05:54:PM
It does not.
Yes it does. Mr. Justice Drake addressed all the "woman scorned" points in his summing up and advised them to "treat her evidence with a good deal of caution." They never asked for clarification before they delivered their verdict (unlike the Robert Boutflour and inheritance and the blood in the silencer) so I suggest to you that this was not foremost in their minds when they came to the conclusion they did.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 05:59:PM
You've got the chronology so completely wrong this is beginning to hurt..





Ok Hartley, I've seen your posts over the years and you are without doubt one of my favourite posters.

No, I don't have all the details you have, I've not studied them as you have.  All I do have is my own experience and understanding at the time.

I've forgotten where it came from however Jeremy and I were told Julie left the UK and was given a new identity.   We could not find her when we searched for her in Canada, but hey, we had little technology compared to today.   Today, as is well noted, we all know about her and where she is.   Knowing that, did she then decide to go back to the name Julie when married?  Also, it would cover up the fact that she was originally given a new identity by the police.   And it's worked if that is the case.
But I'm telling you, all those years ago....we were she had a new identity and was helped to start a new life.

Doubt me, that's fine.  It doesn't take much to have records on the internet changed when you have people in authority trying to cover their tracks.  Meaning, what you see on the internet now, is not what happened all those years ago.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:00:PM




Ok Hartley, I've seen your posts over the years and you are without doubt one of my favourite posters.

No, I don't have all the details you have, I've not studied them as you have.  All I do have is my own experience and understanding at the time.

I've forgotten where it came from however Jeremy and I were told Julie left the UK and was given a new identity.   We could not find her when we searched for her in Canada, but hey, we had little technology compared to today.   Today, as is well noted, we all know about her and where she is.   Knowing that, did she then decide to go back to the name Julie when married?  Also, it would cover up the fact that she was originally given a new identity by the police.   And it's worked if that is the case.
But I'm telling you, all those years ago....we were she had a new identity and was helped to start a new life.

Doubt me, that's fine.  It doesn't take much to have records on the internet changed when you have people in authority trying to cover their tracks.  Meaning, what you see on the internet now, is not what happened all those years ago.
I'm none the wiser, sorry.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 06:05:PM
I'm none the wiser, sorry.




Sorry Steve, that was supposed to be to both of you.  Trying to cook dinner, wade through all the posts and in house remarks takes a lot of concentration when one has not done the forum thing for years.  You both highlighted things to which I had time for one post only.

Any the wiser 😄 😄
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 06:07:PM

The laughs on you Caroline as per usual because anyone genuine can look at my twitter account whenever they like
But your not genuine are you

No they can't you have to allow them to see it so you have it private for a reason and I believe that reason is because it's nothing like you claim it to be. That's what I believe and from your past history, I imagine others would agree - just not to your face.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:08:PM



Sorry Steve, that was supposed to be to both of you.  Trying to cook dinner, wade through all the posts and in house remarks takes a lot of concentration when one has not done the forum thing for years.  You both highlighted things to which I had time for one post only.

Any the wiser 😄 😄
Well I have enjoyed your posts in the past too, and believe that you have met or corresponded with Jeremy Bamber if my memory serves me right. Didn't you vouch for the truth of Daisygate if I also remember rightly. But the Julie issue is of concern to me and any inaccuracies I will pick up.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 06:10:PM


It was a few years ago that her children's social media posts where found, then hers and her husbands.  She was vilified by some Bamber supporters.... they found the school she worked at as Head Teacher (I think) and continued to post dreadful things online about her.

She is well aware of everything that's going on, as are her family and no doubt friends.  Word gets around the schools pretty darn quick too.  How much of an impact it's having on her now is debatable.

Who knows what's going through her mind now.  Is it Karma?  I don't know.  Could she ever be persuaded to return - I don't know.  She does visit the UK and at the time had friends still based here. 

If she did return, the consequences are pretty dire for her.  Jeremy suffers, yes, without question, however, she does not have piece of mind. How can she?

Which is a disgrace - he kids and husband have no part in the case. It just shows the calibre of some people.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 06:11:PM




Ok Hartley, I've seen your posts over the years and you are without doubt one of my favourite posters.

No, I don't have all the details you have, I've not studied them as you have.  All I do have is my own experience and understanding at the time.

I've forgotten where it came from however Jeremy and I were told Julie left the UK and was given a new identity.   We could not find her when we searched for her in Canada, but hey, we had little technology compared to today.   Today, as is well noted, we all know about her and where she is.   Knowing that, did she then decide to go back to the name Julie when married?  Also, it would cover up the fact that she was originally given a new identity by the police.   And it's worked if that is the case.
But I'm telling you, all those years ago....we were she had a new identity and was helped to start a new life.

Doubt me, that's fine.  It doesn't take much to have records on the internet changed when you have people in authority trying to cover their tracks.  Meaning, what you see on the internet now, is not what happened all those years ago.

I wonder why she'd have needed a new identity? Living and working here freely until she left England. Her family lived and worked locally. She married locally. She's still free to come and go as she pleases. SHE wasn't the one on trial. TOUGH that people didn't like the outcome. I was one such, but I wasn't sitting there waiting for the tumbrel to cart her off to the guillotine so I could throw rotten eggs at her.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 06:12:PM
Which is a disgrace - he kids and husband have no part in the case. It just shows the calibre of some people.



Hello Caroline,

I totally agree.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 06:16:PM
How many years then for putting an innocent man in prison
She seemed quite confident when she made a trip back for the court of appeal, this smacks in the face of doubters who thinks Julie is afraid to return.  She made herself available and wasn't used to give evidence by the prosecution or Defence and was released.  She didn't seem to be hiding her identitity and put herself openly out there, I sure someone will pick fault for her doing so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 06:17:PM
I found the above post, which was the first one I came to (in the link your posted) after about five minutes of trawling. I'm not complaining about my valuable time, unlike some who never let us forget how precious a commodity it is to them.

What point are you struggling to make?

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 06:18:PM


Hello Caroline,

I totally agree.

Be TOTALLY assured that there are some here who would love nothing more than to tell her children about her past -they have said the children SHOULD be told- and to see her marriage end in divorce. It has even been suggested that there are, even now, marital problems because her husband has found out that she lied -she hadn't even met him when the Bamber case happened. This is one of the reasons I appear to defend her. Her behaviour back then appalled me. There's nothing about it that I can condone, but it has nothing to do with her family.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 13, 2017, 06:18:PM
I wonder why she'd have needed a new identity? Living and working here freely until she left England. Her family lived and worked locally. She married locally. She's still free to come and go as she pleases. SHE wasn't the one on trial. TOUGH that people didn't like the outcome. I was one such, but I wasn't sitting there waiting for the tumbrel to cart her off to the guillotine so I could throw rotten eggs at her.

She didn't.

Supporters are trying to claim this to make her look worse.

Bamber had no supporters in 1986 & there was certainly no media condemnation of her.

She met a Canadian & moved there.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 06:19:PM






What ngb noted in the link is similar to what I've posted on another page earlier today.    She was left with very little choice but to take the deals as offered.   Is there not a huge question mark surrounding this and the jury's decision ?

I do think she had a choice and being blackmailed into committing perjury to send an innocent man to prison, might have been worth a lot more than £25,000.00. In such an instance, what would you have done? Lie to put an innocent man behind bars or stick to the truth and take what was coming?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 06:21:PM
Yes it does. Mr. Justice Drake addressed all the "woman scorned" points in his summing up and advised them to "treat her evidence with a good deal of caution." They never asked for clarification before they delivered their verdict (unlike the Robert Boutflour and inheritance and the blood in the silencer) so I suggest to you that this was not foremost in their minds when they came to the conclusion they did.

Rubbish.  He urged caution only because of the "woman scorned" possibility, not because of the financial incentive of the NOW deal or because of the pressure brought to bear by the police (because both were concealed from the judge).  The evidence of Mugford was an important part of the prosecution case (as emphasised by the judge) and no doubt played a major role in the jury's deliberations.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 06:24:PM





But, what if the police and family 'needed' her to play ball?

Imagine she received no phone call from Jeremy, she slept with him after the murders.... he dumped her!

She had stood by him through the funeral etc, he's about to inherit a huge sum and power... with her support, and he dumps her?   She'd be so upset.

Both the police and family knew she was vulnerable, emotionally and financially.

What if Jeremy had to be convicted at any cost?

Both the Police and the family had Julie.  Pay to play.  It's a common practice especially in government and practised so often amongst the higher echelons in life.   It's a cover up from start to finish.

Yes, that could explain why Julie MAY have lied (although, I don't think she did to the extent claimed here). What about the others? Susan Battersby, Liz Rimington, Malcolm Waters et al? What was their motive?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 13, 2017, 06:26:PM
Rubbish.  He urged caution only because of the "woman scorned" possibility, not because of the financial incentive of the NOW deal or because of the pressure brought to bear by the police (because both were concealed from the judge).  The evidence of Mugford was an important part of the prosecution case (as emphasised by the judge) and no doubt played a major role in the jury's deliberations.

It is correct Julie was the main witness. However there is also over 200+ pieces of incriminating forensic & circumstantial evidence. Which you do not comment on.

Bamber's reason why Julie approached the police - 'he jilted her' is also incredibly weak.

But appreciate as a lawyer you have to go for a technicality. Which seems to be the NOTW deal.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 06:28:PM
Yes, that could explain why Julie MAY have lied (although, I don't think she did to the extent claimed here). What about the others? Susan Battersby, Liz Rimington, Malcolm Waters et al? What was their motive?

It must also be remembered that outside of her social group Julie had a family -mother, brother, step-father- who was supporting her. Are we to believe that they, too encouraged her in a lie? MORE to add to the conspiracy theory?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 06:33:PM
Her family couldn't read her mind no matter how much support they gave.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 06:35:PM
It is correct Julie was the main witness. However there is also over 200+ pieces of incriminating forensic & circumstantial evidence. Which you do not comment on.

Bamber's reason why Julie approached the police - 'he jilted her' is also incredibly weak.

But appreciate as a lawyer you have to go for a technicality. Which seems to be the NOTW deal.

Not at all Adam.  I have already said that an appeal in this case will not be won on a technicality.  in view of the history the grounds of appeal would have to be very strong, undermining fundamental planks of the prosecution case at trial.  I accept that there are a number of pieces of circumstantial evidence which were relied upon by the prosecution, and these formed part of the overall case against JB.  However, in the absence of the two key planks of the prosecution case, namely the Julie Mugford evidence and the evidence relating to the silencer I do not believe the case would even have gone to trial, and if it had done the judge would have withdrawn it from the jury.

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 06:39:PM
Her family couldn't read her mind no matter how much support they gave.

It is being claimed that the police told Julie Mugford to testify against Bamber 'or else'. They really had nothing much on him without Julie - they needed her BUT, Julie had already told her friends about Bamber's involvement prior to going to the police. How do they fit in and what was the point of adding in a hit man scenario?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:39:PM
Rubbish.  He urged caution only because of the "woman scorned" possibility, not because of the financial incentive of the NOW deal or because of the pressure brought to bear by the police (because both were concealed from the judge).  The evidence of Mugford was an important part of the prosecution case (as emphasised by the judge) and no doubt played a major role in the jury's deliberations.
What the Defence can't stand is that Julie's statement chimed in with all the other evidence given independently of herself. There was a doubt as to whether Jeremy Bamber had telephoned Julie in the early hours before the claim of the call from his father, belying Bamber's evidence on that point alone, him telling Colin that first morning that he sounded as if Nevill had been injured when he was apparently still able physically to converse on the telephone, Jeremy bringing Julie a bicycle in the first place when their relationship had been cooling for months, and his claim to two Chelmsford-based PCs that he had attempted to telephone Witham Police Station first, which he withdrew at trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:42:PM
Not at all Adam.  I have already said that an appeal in this case will not be won on a technicality.  in view of the history the grounds of appeal would have to be very strong, undermining fundamental planks of the prosecution case at trial.  I accept that there are a number of pieces of circumstantial evidence which were relied upon by the prosecution, and these formed part of the overall case against JB.  However, in the absence of the two key planks of the prosecution case, namely the Julie Mugford evidence and the evidence relating to the silencer I do not believe the case would even have gone to trial, and if it had done the judge would have withdrawn it from the jury.
Sorry but I don't believe you anymore. You can quote me when the CCRC or whoever is perusing this new evidence as I speak finally make their judgement.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 13, 2017, 06:45:PM
Not at all Adam.  I have already said that an appeal in this case will not be won on a technicality.  in view of the history the grounds of appeal would have to be very strong, undermining fundamental planks of the prosecution case at trial.  I accept that there are a number of pieces of circumstantial evidence which were relied upon by the prosecution, and these formed part of the overall case against JB.  However, in the absence of the two key planks of the prosecution case, namely the Julie Mugford evidence and the evidence relating to the silencer I do not believe the case would even have gone to trial, and if it had done the judge would have withdrawn it from the jury.

What about the forensic evidence below ?

You optimistically believe the case would not go to court without Julie & the silencer. But it did & that can't change.

                             -----------------------


Perfectly clean front of hands on Sheila.   

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila. 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected.

Well manicured nails on Sheila. 

No broken nails.

Nails in tact.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers. 

No blood on finger tips.

No dirt on finger tips.

No powder on finger tips.

No trace of any lead dust coating.

No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice.

Very clean feet.

Feet free from significant blood staining.

No debris such as sugar on feet.

No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress.

No presense of firearm residue on arms.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself.

Nevill being bare footed in pyjamas.

Sheila being bare footed in pyjamas.

Paint in silencer.

Aga scratch's.

Blood in silencer.

No blood in the rifle end.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot.

Sheila's blood underneath the bible.

A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed.

Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre.

Sheila under sedation.

Easy window entrance into WHF.

Shutting kitchen window from outside. 

Murder weapon options.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell.

Items around the kitchen window being moved after housekeeper had left. 

Easy bike route to WHF.

Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre.

June not waking/getting shot in bed.

Nevill's back burns.

2012 CCRC court judgement.

The twins not waking.

Bamber's call to the police.

Nevill's horrific injuries.

Huge kitchen fight.

Sheila's time limits.

Nevill's call to Bamber only lasting 4 seconds.

No valid Sheila scenario.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:50:PM
The lawyer's answer might be that Sheila wasn't on trial-Jeremy was. Remember we are dealing with a master manipulator, who had planned the "perfect crime" for months, a classic piece of management legerdemain whilst seated in a cannabis-filled haze inside the tractor for hours on end, his way of avenging his comparative impotence in the management decisions made at boardroom level and from which he felt excluded.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 13, 2017, 06:53:PM
What the Defence can't stand is that Julie's statement chimed in with all the other evidence given independently of herself.

Rubbish!

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8469.msg402819.html#msg402819 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8469.msg402819.html#msg402819)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 06:55:PM
Rubbish!

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8469.msg402819.html#msg402819 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8469.msg402819.html#msg402819)
But Julie had no contact with relatives after that first day, apart from when they went back to the farmhouse at Ann Eaton's request. The £2000 was the debt Jeremy owed his father and as such the sum stuck in his mind, rather like David Bain who had crashed a motorcycle on a test drive but didn't seem overly concerned about repayment, since he knew that shortly money would be coming his way.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Adam on August 13, 2017, 06:58:PM
Oh yes. Julie & MM between them came up with a wrong fantasy that MM was paid £2,000 to committ the massacre. And Julie told the police.

I prefer the option that Bamber used MM as a proxy.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 07:07:PM
Which is a disgrace - he kids and husband have no part in the case. It just shows the calibre of some people.
Totally agree Caroline, like it or not Julie put herself up there and I think tells a lot of truth, she has now done well for herself and earning well over $100,000 a year in a role of schools director, seems to have trust from authorities in the process.

Julie Smerchanski — who pulled in $126,440 in 2011,


https://www.winnipegsd.ca/About%20WSD/superintendents-office/Pages/WSDDirectors.aspx
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 07:22:PM




Ok Hartley, I've seen your posts over the years and you are without doubt one of my favourite posters.

No, I don't have all the details you have, I've not studied them as you have.  All I do have is my own experience and understanding at the time.

I've forgotten where it came from however Jeremy and I were told Julie left the UK and was given a new identity.   We could not find her when we searched for her in Canada, but hey, we had little technology compared to today.   Today, as is well noted, we all know about her and where she is.   Knowing that, did she then decide to go back to the name Julie when married?  Also, it would cover up the fact that she was originally given a new identity by the police.   And it's worked if that is the case.
But I'm telling you, all those years ago....we were she had a new identity and was helped to start a new life.

Doubt me, that's fine.  It doesn't take much to have records on the internet changed when you have people in authority trying to cover their tracks.  Meaning, what you see on the internet now, is not what happened all those years ago.

I'm not trying to argue with you AA. What you say is simply untrue. You may however have been led to believe something.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 07:25:PM
No they can't you have to allow them to see it so you have it private for a reason and I believe that reason is because it's nothing like you claim it to be. That's what I believe and from your past history, I imagine others would agree - just not to your face.

Ngb can have access to any of my passwords at any time that should shut you up once and for all
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 07:30:PM
Ngb can have access to any of my passwords at any time that should shut you up once and for all

Haven't we been down this road before, Jackie? When Ngb confirmed that you contacted PH, not the other way round, as you had claimed. I feel sure he'd rather NOT be called in to sort you out at every turn.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 07:52:PM
Totally agree Caroline, like it or not Julie put herself up there and I think tells a lot of truth, she has now done well for herself and earning well over $100,000 a year in a role of schools director, seems to have trust from authorities in the process.

Julie Smerchanski — who pulled in $126,440 in 2011,


https://www.winnipegsd.ca/About%20WSD/superintendents-office/Pages/WSDDirectors.aspx

There was an article in the Canadian press during the 2012 application to the CCRC which was somewhat abrasive towards Julie. It paraphrased McKay. May I ask if this was something put out by McKay and NGB?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 07:54:PM
There was an article in the Canadian press during the 2012 application to the CCRC which was somewhat abrasive towards Julie. It paraphrased McKay. May I ask if this was something put out by McKay and NGB?

I didn't mean to quote you Justice.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 07:56:PM
There was an article in the Canadian press during the 2012 application to the CCRC which was somewhat abrasive towards Julie. It paraphrased McKay. May I ask if this was something put out by McKay and NGB?
Yes I can remember it Hartley, McKay also said this,
"She was a key witness," McKay said, though he emphasized, "No one considered that her evidence alone convicted Bamber."

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 07:57:PM
It must also be remembered that outside of her social group Julie had a family -mother, brother, step-father- who was supporting her. Are we to believe that they, too encouraged her in a lie? MORE to add to the conspiracy theory?

Well they obviously thought it was better to lie than see Julie serving a long prison sentence
I'm pretty sure they warned Julie how long the sentence could be
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 08:01:PM
Haven't we been down this road before, Jackie? When Ngb confirmed that you contacted PH, not the other way round, as you had claimed. I feel sure he'd rather NOT be called in to sort you out at every turn.

Once again your evil jealous personal attacks have started

I have a twitter account with 2000 followers and I could not give a toss if you believe me or not buts a brilliant platform to give a blow by blow account of any up to date information on (Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 08:04:PM
Well they obviously thought it was better to lie than see Julie serving a long prison sentence
I'm pretty sure they warned Julie how long the sentence could be

Oooh! I didn't know they were experts in custodial sentences :o :o
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 08:06:PM
I didn't mean to quote you Justice.
Its ok Hartley, I think the defence has had its chance with Julie, they didn't show much at trial and they had their chance at the appeal, makes you wonder why they never pushed her, was Bamber and his team afraid she could have been more damaging?  Although I don't agree with certain things and actions she took, how many times do we see spouses/girlfriends lying to protect or out of fear their partners?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 08:08:PM
The lawyer's answer might be that Sheila wasn't on trial-Jeremy was. Remember we are dealing with a master manipulator, who had planned the "perfect crime" for months, a classic piece of management legerdemain whilst seated in a cannabis-filled haze inside the tractor for hours on end, his way of avenging his comparative impotence in the management decisions made at boardroom level and from which he felt excluded.

Your posts are laughable Steve
Jeremy the master manipulator??

Yes of course that's how he behaved handing Ann Eaton the keys to the farm

Telling Mugford he was responsible for the murders and then dumping her


At least I hav a chuckle at your posts
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 08:11:PM
Once again your evil jealous personal attacks have started

I have a twitter account with 2000 followers and I could not give a toss if you believe me or not buts a brilliant platform to give a blow by blow account of any up to date information on (Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford

 Hehee!!! Caught you looking again, haven't I? Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the nastiest of us all? I'll bet it tells you the truth every time you look in in, doesn't it? And I don't give a toss if you have 2 million followers. Followers mean zilch to the balanced amongst us.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 08:11:PM
Your posts are laughable Steve
Jeremy the master manipulator??

Yes of course that's how he behaved handing Ann Eaton the keys to the farm

Telling Mugford he was responsible for the murders and then dumping her


At least I hav a chuckle at your posts
Yes he has even hoodwinked you Jackie..
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 08:14:PM
It must also be remembered that outside of her social group Julie had a family -mother, brother, step-father- who was supporting her. Are we to believe that they, too encouraged her in a lie? MORE to add to the conspiracy theory?






Not so much as lied - more gently persuaded not to tell the truth.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 08:15:PM
Once again your evil jealous personal attacks have started

I have a twitter account with 2000 followers and I could not give a toss if you believe me or not buts a brilliant platform to give a blow by blow account of any up to date information on (Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford
You sound like a stalker Jackie, hope your not putting yourself liable or is that why you choose your followers?

The test: A tweet is potentially libellous in England and Wales if it damages someone's reputation "in the estimation of right thinking members of society". It can do this by exposing them to "hatred, ridicule or contempt". It is a civil offence so you won't be jailed but you could end up with a large damages bill. The rules also apply to re-tweets.

The only way to be completely safe is to avoid tweeting gossip unless you know for a fact that it is true.

Have you got proof yet about Julie not wearing knickers?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 08:20:PM





Not so much as lied - more gently persuaded not to tell the truth.

As I said, I might be persuaded to believe Jeremy's supporters if just ONE could give me an intelligent and believable reason why the police would want to frame Jeremy when they had a ready made culprit in Sheila. Every time a supporter opens their mouth they -necessarily- add other conspirators to the rapidly growing list.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 08:22:PM
You sound like a stalker Jackie, hope your not putting yourself liable or is that why you choose your followers?

My followers are handpicked and really interested in turning this case into a mini series

You must admit Justice that  Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) hasn't featured enough in previous documentaries
To focus on Julie could be much more interesting for the viewers

Not likely they would judge her.....
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 08:24:PM
Sorry but I don't believe you anymore. You can quote me when the CCRC or whoever is perusing this new evidence as I speak finally make their judgement.

I really do not care whether you believe anything I say.  I have a seriously low regard for you based on my experience of dealing with you.  You are offensive and have an overblown idea of your own intellect.  You think you have a fine way with words but I do not share your view of this.  You are one person on this forum who really gets under my skin.  I have an excellent relationship with members of all sides of the debate on the case.  I respect their views even when I do not agree.  I do not respect your views or the way you express them.  I have not been on Betnod but I can understand why they kicked you out.  It is tempting for me to do the same (and that is saying something because I have been criticised for failing to deal strongly enough in some cases) but I do not want to give you the satisfaction of being a victim.

If I were not an administrator here I would express my opinion of you far more strongly.  You have a hidden agenda.   Once again I invite members to read in full the thread I linked here earlier so that they can see exactly what sort of a person you are. 

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 08:28:PM
There was an article in the Canadian press during the 2012 application to the CCRC which was somewhat abrasive towards Julie. It paraphrased McKay. May I ask if this was something put out by McKay and NGB?

I had nothing to do with anything released to the Canadian press.  I do know that there were attempts to contact JM by the then legal team and by someone in the broadcasting media but those attempts were rebuffed.

 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 08:30:PM
My followers are handpicked and really interested in turning this case into a mini series

You must admit Justice that  Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) hasn't featured enough in previous documentaries
To focus on Julie could be much more interesting for the viewers

Not likely they would judge her.....

"MY FOLLOWERS"!!!!! I wonder what you've promised them? I KNOW! I'll BET you've promised them all that they can have a part! You're good at telling the unsuspecting you can do things for them. I just hope they're not holding their breath. You must think you're the Messiah!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 08:36:PM
Sorry to go off topic, I've asked this several times but never got an answer, where is Jeremy's Court testimony and cross examination?   I don't want to start a thread on this alone if one isn't available.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 08:40:PM
Sorry to go off topic, I've asked this several times but never got an answer, where is Jeremy's Court testimony and cross examination?   I don't want to start a thread on this alone if one isn't available.

Justice, I've always understood that it isn't available. Whether that means it's not generally available OR we simply haven't got it, I don't know.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 08:44:PM
Justice, I've always understood that it isn't available. Whether that means it's not generally available OR we simply haven't got it, I don't know.
Thanks Jane, if I was a supporter this is something I would want to read.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 08:47:PM
I really do not care whether you believe anything I say.  I have a seriously low regard for you based on my experience of dealing with you.  You are offensive and have an overblown idea of your own intellect.  You think you have a fine way with words but I do not share your view of this.  You are one person on this forum who really gets under my skin.  I have an excellent relationship with members of all sides of the debate on the case.  I respect their views even when I do not agree.  I do not respect your views or the way you express them.  I have not been on Betnod but I can understand why they kicked you out.  It is tempting for me to do the same (and that is saying something because I have been criticised for failing to deal strongly enough in some cases) but I do not want to give you the satisfaction of being a victim.

If I were not an administrator here I would express my opinion of you far more strongly.  You have a hidden agenda.   Once again I invite members to read in full the thread I linked here earlier so that they can see exactly what sort of a person you are.
Well you'd better try harder than the post you quoted. I don't really hold a personal animosity towards anyone-even the Betnod member who wrote the epithet "Steve_uk is a moron" on his avatar and expected me to engage notwithstanding.

I do however have a couple of gripes with you. The first one regards your constant need to pull rank on your barrister status. It's annoying to say the least and manifests your insecurity as an individual. The second is to claim that your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else's here: it is not.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 08:49:PM
As I said, I might be persuaded to believe Jeremy's supporters if just ONE could give me an intelligent and believable reason why the police would want to frame Jeremy when they had a ready made culprit in Sheila. Every time a supporter opens their mouth they -necessarily- add other conspirators to the rapidly growing list.



1.  The family had had a lot of influence and power.  Neville was ( I'm told) a 33rd degree mason. 

2.  The family had a fortune to inherit once Jeremy was out the way.

3.  The family, along with the Police had to ensure Jeremy was convicted for the crime. 

4.  Julie became the pawn.  It was better for the family and police if she was on their side, rather than tell the truth and and give any possibility to Jeremy escaping conviction.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 08:51:PM
Thanks Jane, if I was a supporter this is something I would want to read.






I've been hankering after that for the past 3 years,probably more justice but to no avail.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 08:52:PM


1.  The family had had a lot of influence and power.  Neville was ( I'm told) a 33rd degree mason. 

2.  The family had a fortune to inherit once Jeremy was out the way.

3.  The family, along with the Police had to ensure Jeremy was convicted for the crime. 

4.  Julie became the pawn. It was better for the family and police if she was on their side, rather than tell the truth and and give any possibility to Jeremy escaping conviction.
But I don't see what was the truth from Julie's perspective if her statements are all lies: she would have  nothing to add at all and therefore not required at trial.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 08:55:PM





I've been hankering after that for the past 3 years,probably more justice but to no avail.
Thanks Lookout, it's always puzzled me.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 09:02:PM


1.  The family had had a lot of influence and power.  Neville was ( I'm told) a 33rd degree mason. 

2.  The family had a fortune to inherit once Jeremy was out the way.

3.  The family, along with the Police had to ensure Jeremy was convicted for the crime. 

4.  Julie became the pawn.  It was better for the family and police if she was on their side, rather than tell the truth and and give any possibility to Jeremy escaping conviction.

Most of the above is apocryphal. MORE to the point, NONE,of what is true in the above, was known when Jeremy decided to pull his finger out and call the police. IF there had been a call from Nevill to the police, all that was necessary to shut up any family 'aspirations', was to tell them they'd received a call from him. There was no reason, on God's earth, for the information to be withheld. They didn't get a call so they couldn't pass on that information.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Aunt Agatha on August 13, 2017, 09:15:PM
Most of the above is apocryphal. MORE to the point, NONE,of what is true in the above, was known when Jeremy decided to pull his finger out and call the police. IF there had been a call from Nevill to the police, all that was necessary to shut up any family 'aspirations', was to tell them they'd received a call from him. There was no reason, on God's earth, for the information to be withheld. They didn't get a call so they couldn't pass on that information.




1. Jeremy told me about his father, this has been discussed on here in the past.

2.  The recent video shows quite clearly the inheritance (not disclosed to the jury).

3.   There was connections with the family and officers after the case closed.  Discussed on here in the past.
      The (accidental) death of an investigating officer.

4.   Not that apocryphal.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 09:17:PM
Well you'd better try harder than the post you quoted. I don't really hold a personal animosity towards anyone-even the Betnod member who wrote the epithet "Steve_uk is a moron" on his avatar and expected me to engage notwithstanding.

I do however have a couple of gripes with you. The first one regards your constant need to pull rank on your barrister status. It's annoying to say the least and manifests your insecurity as an individual. The second is to claim that your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else's here: it is not.

Steve I think your response to NGB is rather unfair he does not have to pull rank why would he but I must admit he knows far more about the law than you or I and I suspect all forum members.  I have had dealings with him and I have always found him to be so very fair and honest and I know because of what he is presently involved in that his time is so precious and we are lucky that he can spare time on the forum.  I suspect as a school teacher you have far more time to spare for the forum than he has.  You come over Steve as any information that may have come to light to clear Jeremy Bamber frightens you and you go on the defensive that attitude helps nobody and certainly will not affect Jeremy Bamber.  Try and be civil as we want a happy forum.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 09:20:PM
Steve I think your response to NGB is rather unfair he does not have to pull rank why would he but I must admit he knows far more about the law than you or I and I suspect all forum members.  I have had dealings with him and I have always found him to be so very fair and honest and I know because of what he is presently involved in that his time is so precious and we are lucky that he can spare time on the forum.  I suspect as a school teacher you have far more time to spare for the forum than he has.  You come over Steve as any information that may have come to light to clear Jeremy Bamber frightens you and you go on the defensive that attitude helps nobody and certainly will not affect Jeremy Bamber.  Try and be civil as we want a happy forum.
But we're never privy to the information Susan-this site is the last to know! As far as time is concerned I'd be the first one to admit I get generous holidays, but I need them. I have also in the past given up time for extra-curricular activities and I would bet any barrister cannot match this. I don't care whether he dislikes the language in my posts or not: I write primarily for myself and don't target a specific audience.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 09:27:PM
Any photo's of her Sharon Stone performance?  Or is it just your usual gossip.

Hello justice
if you go to the archives you will see a thread called Newspaper Articles started by Caroline photo's exist there of Julie showing off her thighs not sure about knickers hahaha think this is what you meant by Sharon Stone performance
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 13, 2017, 09:30:PM
But I don't see what was the truth from Julie's perspective if her statements are all lies: she would have  nothing to add at all and therefore not required at trial.
Hi Steve, you have posted often that you are totally supportive of both Julie Mugford and Colin Caffel.
I wonder how you reconcile the fact that when Julie and Jeremy stayed the weekend with Colin after the murders she knew Jeremy was the murderer of his boys.
She slept in his flat with the murderer of his beloved boys and pretended to emote and support him.
How does this pan out in your protection of Julie and support of Colin?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 09:33:PM



1. Jeremy told me about his father, this has been discussed on here in the past.

2.  The recent video shows quite clearly the inheritance (not disclosed to the jury).

3.   There was connections with the family and officers after the case closed.  Discussed on here in the past.
      The (accidental) death of an investigating officer.

4.   Not that apocryphal.

1) Is there any point in discussing this further if you believe everything Jeremy said?

2) It's possible the video, like some of the witnesses, tells the truth................but not ALL the truth.

3) So there were connections between police and family after the case closed. SO? One policeman in particular is said to have headed security at the holiday park. Why would he not? Early retirement? Looking for a comfortable little job in pleasant surroundings? Sounds alright to me. What he wouldn't have done, is left the force, given up a regular salary, a comfortable pension, police accommodation for what amounted to casual labour.......................Oh, and the investigating officer's death was never shown to be more than accidental.

4) Apocryphal enough, I believe.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 09:36:PM
But we're never privy to the information Susan-this site is the last to know! As far as time is concerned I'd be the first one to admit I get generous holidays, but I need them. I have also in the past given up time for extra-curricular activities and I would bet any barrister cannot match this. I don't care whether he dislikes the language in my posts or not: I write primarily for myself and don't target a specific audience.
#

Steve I know you must work very hard and so does NGB.  Any information he has which could help Jeremy Bamber is needed for another appeal and he cannot share it with us have you forgot how Bill Robertson got abused and ridiculed when he was on and it is obvious that any information to hand will never be shared on the open forum to be ridiculed like Bill was and Roch it is so unfair Roch was merely telling us with the information he has seen he now knows Sheila was responsible or at least involved with the murders.  I for one am grateful that Roch shared that with us and I have no need to try and get the information from him I will wait and see what happens but knowing Roch as I do he is not making stuff up or misreading he is stating a fact.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 13, 2017, 09:39:PM
Hi Steve, you have posted often that you are totally supportive of both Julie Mugford and Colin Caffel.
I wonder how you reconcile the fact that when Julie and Jeremy stayed the weekend with Colin after the murders she knew Jeremy was the murderer of his boys.
She slept in his flat with the murderer of his beloved boys and pretended to emote and support him.
How does this pan out in your protection of Julie?

Good post Maggie it truly was dispicable if he was the murderer
But she made everything up didn't she
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 09:42:PM
Hi Steve, you have posted often that you are totally supportive of both Julie Mugford and Colin Caffel.
I wonder how you reconcile the fact that when Julie and Jeremy stayed the weekend with Colin after the murders she knew Jeremy was the murderer of his boys.
She slept in his flat with the murderer of his beloved boys and pretended to emote and support him.
How does this pan out in your protection of Julie?
There were two visits to Colin's flat at Kilburn: the first weekend after the tragedy Julie was still being threatened that she would be an accessory to the murders and went along reluctantly with Jeremy's wishes. The second time was at Colin's request and a tearful Julie with Liz by her side told him she didn't believe her then boyfriend would proceed with the murders. When she got to the part that Daniel and Nicholas would grow up disturbed Colin switched off mentally and lay the blame squarely where it lay: on Jeremy Bamber's shoulders.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 09:42:PM
Hello justice
if you go to the archives you will see a thread called Newspaper Articles started by Caroline photo's exist there of Julie showing off her thighs not sure about knickers hahaha think this is what you meant by Sharon Stone performance
Nope, Jackie stated that she hadn't any knickers, I personally think this is the usual sler without proof, I asked for proof.  It's the sort of gossip to discredit Julie, is it an offence for a woman to show off her thighs?
This is what Jackie posted.
That's why she hitched her clothes up to show. No knickers for 25,000
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 13, 2017, 09:46:PM
It doesn't alter the fact that the pic was in bad taste in view of what the story attached was about.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 13, 2017, 09:46:PM
There were two visits to Colin's flat at Kilburn: the first weekend after the tragedy Julie was still being threatened that she would be an accessory to the murders and went along reluctantly with Jeremy's wishes. The second time was at Colin's request and a tearful Julie with Liz by her side told him she didn't believe her then boyfriend would proceed with the murders. When she got to the part that Daniel and Nicholas would grow up disturbed Colin switched off mentally and lay the blame squarely where it lay: on Jeremy Bamber's shoulders.
Excuses, she stayed in Colin's flat when she has since claimed she knew JB had killed his boys.  Can't find any morality in that behaviour at all.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 09:48:PM
#

Steve I know you must work very hard and so does NGB.  Any information he has which could help Jeremy Bamber is needed for another appeal and he cannot share it with us have you forgot how Bill Robertson got abused and ridiculed when he was on and it is obvious that any information to hand will never be shared on the open forum to be ridiculed like Bill was and Roch it is so unfair Roch was merely telling us with the information he has seen he now knows Sheila was responsible or at least involved with the murders.  I for one am grateful that Roch shared that with us and I have no need to try and get the information from him I will wait and see what happens but knowing Roch as I do he is not making stuff up or misreading he is stating a fact.
You forget one thing, Bill came on here insinuating he was police with his posts which he changed, I still have this post which clearly states he says his ex colleagues and police, he then removes it when challenged, you might like being taken in I DONT.  I like proof on such accusations.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 09:50:PM
You forget one thing, Bill came on here insinuating he was police with his posts which he changed, I still have this post which clearly states he says his ex colleagues and police, he then removes it when challenged, you might like being taken in I DONT.  I like proof on such accusations.

Justice I do apologise I was not aware of that.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 09:50:PM
It doesn't alter the fact that the pic was in bad taste in view of what the story attached was about.
Lookout, I'm sorry there is a very big difference not wearing knickers and wearing them for photo's.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 13, 2017, 09:51:PM
Excuses, she stayed in Colin's flat when she has since claimed she knew JB had killed his boys.  Can't find any morality in that behaviour at all.

I don't think anyone here is condoning anything about her behaviour.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 09:52:PM
Nope, Jackie stated that she hadn't any knickers, I personally think this is the usual sler without proof, I asked for proof.  It's the sort of gossip to discredit Julie, is it an offence for a woman to show off her thighs?
This is what Jackie posted.
That's why she hitched her clothes up to show. No knickers for 25,000

Justice you sound very angry not sure of what I have done so badly I thought I was being helpful posting you the link it seems whatever I post you seem to want to attack me.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 09:55:PM
I don't like doing this but this was part of Bills post, which then he later removed, Roch didn't like my challenging Bill, but I'm sorry when someone gives this sort of statement it needs challenging. 

Apologies, I didn't know I was meant to log in here first.

I have studied the first 2 hours of the case for the past 3 years; just the first 2 hours!
Finding out everything possible about what happened, particularly in relation to the police and trying to figure out which of my ex-colleagues have been economical with the truth, or supremely inventive.

I got interested because casting a professional eye over the case it was obvious where the lies were. Proving that they are lies takes a bit more effort.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 09:59:PM
Justice you sound very angry not sure of what I have done so badly I thought I was being helpful posting you the link it seems whatever I post you seem to want to attack me.
I can't see what's angry about that post Susan, I'm merely correcting you and pointing you in the direction of why I posted such.  Sorry if I seem this way but I've asked Jackie several times for proof, but as usual nothing.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 10:04:PM
I don't like doing this but this was part of Bills post, which then he later removed, Roch didn't like my challenging Bill, but I'm sorry when someone gives this sort of statement it needs challenging. 

Apologies, I didn't know I was meant to log in here first.

I have studied the first 2 hours of the case for the past 3 years; just the first 2 hours!
Finding out everything possible about what happened, particularly in relation to the police and trying to figure out which of my ex-colleagues have been economical with the truth, or supremely inventive.

I got interested because casting a professional eye over the case it was obvious where the lies were. Proving that they are lies takes a bit more effort.

Justice I cannot understand why you are showing anger towards me I did not say you were rude to Bill I was just making a point to Steve and whoever a person is I don't think they should be subjected to abuse you don't have to say you believe what a person has posted a poster can disagree without having attitude.
I really don't know what I have done to make you so angry
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 10:06:PM
Justice I cannot understand why you are showing anger towards me I did not say you were rude to Bill I was just making a point to Steve and whoever a person is I don't think they should be subjected to abuse you don't have to say you believe what a person has posted a poster can disagree without having attitude.
I really don't know what I have done to make you so angry
Why carry it on Susan, it's finished done, move on and stop playing the victim.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 10:08:PM
I can't see what's angry about that post Susan, I'm merely correcting you and pointing you in the direction of why I posted such.  Sorry if I seem this way but I've asked Jackie several times for proof, but as usual nothing.

Justice I am sorry it seems a misunderstanding has occurred I did not read about the knickers for money that is not on
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 10:09:PM
Justice I am sorry it seems a misunderstanding has occurred I did not read about the knickers for money that is not on
Ok Susan, let's leave it now please.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 13, 2017, 10:12:PM
Ok Susan, let's leave it now please.

Justice I will leave it but you know me well enough to know I never play the victim and I think that remark is totally uncalled for I will leave it don't worry.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 10:24:PM
Justice I will leave it but you know me well enough to know I never play the victim and I think that remark is totally uncalled for I will leave it don't worry.
Why keep saying I'm attacking you then when I've done no such thing?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 10:38:PM
Well you'd better try harder than the post you quoted. I don't really hold a personal animosity towards anyone-even the Betnod member who wrote the epithet "Steve_uk is a moron" on his avatar and expected me to engage notwithstanding.

I do however have a couple of gripes with you. The first one regards your constant need to pull rank on your barrister status. It's annoying to say the least and manifests your insecurity as an individual. The second is to claim that your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else's here: it is not.

I know nothing about Betnod but obviously there are some astute members, based upon your report.

I never pull rank.  I have no rank.  I post based upon my experience and express opinions, as do others.  For you to refer to my insecurity as an individual says far more about you than about me.  It is deeply insulting.   You clearly have some serious issues and you might consider seeking help.  I have never claimed that my time is more valuable than anyone else's here.  You know that but you like to make cheap shots. 

 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 10:43:PM
I know nothing about Betnod but obviously there are some astute members, based upon your report.

I never pull rank.  I have no rank.  I post based upon my experience and express opinions, as do others.  For you to refer to my insecurity as an individual says far more about you than about me.  It is deeply insulting.   You clearly have some serious issues and you might consider seeking help.  I have never claimed that my time is more valuable than anyone else's here.  You know that but you like to make cheap shots. 

 
You know enough to claim that I was "booted off" an obscure website with about 5 regular contributors. You did pull rank by highlighting your barrister status almost on your first post directed at me.

How dare you suggest I seek medical help. I hope Maggie removes.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 13, 2017, 10:50:PM
You know enough to claim that I was "booted off" an obscure website with about 5 regular contributors. You did pull rank by highlighting your barrister status almost on your first post directed at me.

How dare you suggest I seek medical help. I hope Maggie removes.

You can appeal to Maggie if you wish.  We will see what happens.  I dare to say what I do because I believe it.  You have some serious issues.

I have never pulled rank.  That is a cheap insult.  You on the other hand have repeatedly hurled personal insults.  You are a disgrace.





Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Steve_uk on August 13, 2017, 11:02:PM
You can appeal to Maggie if you wish.  We will see what happens.  I dare to say what I do because I believe it.  You have some serious issues.

I have never pulled rank.  That is a cheap insult.  You on the other hand have repeatedly hurled personal insults.  You are a disgrace.
I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've appealed to the moderator for posts to be removed. This over a period of five years.

I suggest that this says far more about you than it does about me.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 11:18:PM
I had nothing to do with anything released to the Canadian press.  I do know that there were attempts to contact JM by the then legal team and by someone in the broadcasting media but those attempts were rebuffed.

Thank you for replying and I accept your answer.
I wonder where the article came from, it was an attack on Julie, published in her home town. The motivation was abundantly clear.

I think that's what I personally dislike the most, there's very little discussion without people trying to point score or mislead, be it on this forum or with weighted articles in the press.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 11:30:PM
I know nothing about Betnod but obviously there are some astute members, based upon your report.

I never pull rank.  I have no rank.  I post based upon my experience and express opinions, as do others.  For you to refer to my insecurity as an individual says far more about you than about me.  It is deeply insulting.   You clearly have some serious issues and you might consider seeking help.  I have never claimed that my time is more valuable than anyone else's here.  You know that but you like to make cheap shots. 

 
NGB, I can't thank you enough how you gave your time for me and my family, you didn't have to yet you did it without question, it helped us all through a difficult period. Steve, NGB is one of the nicest blokes I have had the pleasure to chat to and always finds time to respond when I ask him anything, whichever side we're on he's given so much of his professional time to be here with us, he doesn't put on any show and he's the same as us.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 13, 2017, 11:40:PM
NGB, I can't thank you enough how you gave your time for me and my family, you didn't have to yet you did it without question, it helped us all through a difficult period. Steve, NGB is one of the nicest blokes I have had the pleasure to chat to and always finds time to respond when I ask him anything, whichever side we're on he's given so much of his professional time to be here with us, he doesn't put on any show and he's the same as us.

I echo your sentiments towards NGB, he has certainly done right by me when perhaps he did not need to and others no doubt wouldn't have.

I do however feel that in discussion terms, there is absolutely a position that you can take where you can disagree with a poster's judgment or opinion without questioning their honesty or integrity.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 13, 2017, 11:41:PM
Once again your evil jealous personal attacks have started

I have a twitter account with 2000 followers and I could not give a toss if you believe me or not buts a brilliant platform to give a blow by blow account of any up to date information on (Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford

So what?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 13, 2017, 11:48:PM
I echo your sentiments towards NGB, he has certainly done right by me when perhaps he did not need to and others no doubt wouldn't have.

I do however feel that in discussion terms, there is absolutely a position that you can take where you can disagree with a poster's judgment or opinion without questioning their honesty or integrity.
I agree Hartley, I think we've all done it where a discussion takes a different path when it becomes a little heated though.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 14, 2017, 04:37:AM
But Julie had no contact with relatives after that first day, apart from when they went back to the farmhouse at Ann Eaton's request. The £2000 was the debt Jeremy owed his father and as such the sum stuck in his mind, rather like David Bain who had crashed a motorcycle on a test drive but didn't seem overly concerned about repayment, since he knew that shortly money would be coming his way.

Wrong. It can be established via inference.

The evidence that Julie was fed information from the relatives is rather simple.

Like with most criminal acts, there is no direct evidence of collusion. But it can be proven through circumstancial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is a fact that can be used to infer another fact.

For example. If I am on the London Underground. Passengers begin to enter the train I am currently seated in. I notice those passengers are rather wet and some are holding umbrellas. From this fact I can then infer another fact that it's raining outside. Despite me being in a train tunnel and being unable to see the weather outside.

Make sense?

Now. The relatives believed that Sheila was found on the bed with the bible on her chest. This becomes part of Jeremy's alleged confession to Julie verbatim. From these facts i can then infer another fact - Julie got this information from the relatives and not from Jeremy.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 14, 2017, 05:43:AM
Well you'd better try harder than the post you quoted. I don't really hold a personal animosity towards anyone-even the Betnod member who wrote the epithet "Steve_uk is a moron" on his avatar and expected me to engage notwithstanding.

I do however have a couple of gripes with you. The first one regards your constant need to pull rank on your barrister status. It's annoying to say the least and manifests your insecurity as an individual. The second is to claim that your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else's here: it is not.
Steve I am appalled at your personal attack on ngb. 
I have always found him a thoughtful, tolerant and friendly person. 
I am aware of many times he has generously  given his legal expertise and advice to many people without any sign of pulling rank or insinuations that his time is any more valuable than there's or anyone elses  That is not the way he functions.
On the other hand we are constantly made aware of your status as a teacher although it is pretty much irrelevant to the debate on this forum. 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Roch on August 14, 2017, 09:13:AM
I do however feel that in discussion terms, there is absolutely a position that you can take where you can disagree with a poster's judgment or opinion without questioning their honesty or integrity.

Which is the opposite of what happened with Bill Robertson.  After an initial period of silent shock, his integrity and honesty were called in to question, during the meltdown after the images were posted up.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 14, 2017, 09:28:AM
Which is the opposite of what happened with Bill Robertson.  After an initial period of silent shock, his integrity and honesty were called in to question, during the meltdown after the images were posted up.
I agree Roch, the attacks on Bill and insinuations he was a fraud were totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: maggie on August 14, 2017, 09:50:AM
Why carry it on Susan, it's finished done, move on and stop playing the victim.
Think that's unfair justice, don't believe Susan is playing the victim but rather standing up for herself and trying to clarify your position towards her.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 10:11:AM
Think that's unfair justice, don't believe Susan is playing the victim but rather standing up for herself and trying to clarify your position towards her.
Ok, I accept what you say, I didn't attack her, Susan brings Bill up on a regular basis and she has had a dig some while back with Roch about my conduct towards Bill, first time I have been online for ages and she brings the Bill situation up again with Steve, it's constant reminding how awful people have been to Bill.  I simply reminded her why the Bill situation happened and Jackie's statement about Julie not wearing knickers, that's all, yet she turns it around to me attacking her.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 14, 2017, 10:45:AM
Thank you for replying and I accept your answer.
I wonder where the article came from, it was an attack on Julie, published in her home town. The motivation was abundantly clear.

I think that's what I personally dislike the most, there's very little discussion without people trying to point score or mislead, be it on this forum or with weighted articles in the press.

As I recall a journalist here made efforts to contact JM for an interview.  He did not get anywhere with the approach and he enlisted the help of a journalist in Canada who knew JM and had written about her before (not anything to do with the Bamber case).  The Canadian journalist did not get anywhere with JM either and then he published an article based upon the briefing he had received from the UK journalist.  In addition I seem to recall that around the same time Simon McKay made public his intention to try to secure JM's attendance for cross examination in the Court of Appeal if leave to appeal had been granted and this may also have fuelled the story.  I may not have recalled all the details correctly but I think the gist of it is correct.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: susan on August 14, 2017, 10:50:AM
Steve I am appalled at your personal attack on ngb. 
I have always found him a thoughtful, tolerant and friendly person. 
I am aware of many times he has generously  given his legal expertise and advice to many people without any sign of pulling rank or insinuations that his time is any more valuable than there's or anyone elses  That is not the way he functions.
On the other hand we are constantly made aware of your status as a teacher although it is pretty much irrelevant to the debate on this forum.

Maggie what a powerful excellent post and  I agree with every word you posted NGB is the nicest,kindest fairest person on here outwith yourself of course :))
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 12:14:PM
Carry on posting Susan. At least your posts are thought out before you write them. Mine ? Well I rarely think before I write,blunt but to the point.and said like it is------for which I'm " famed " for by the family.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 12:18:PM
Carry on posting Susan. At least your posts are thought out before you write them. Mine ? Well I rarely think before I write,blunt but to the point.and said like it is------for which I'm " famed " for by the family.

The point as you see it doesn't make it the correct one.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 12:22:PM
The point as you see it doesn't make it the correct one.





I didn't say it did----did I ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 12:27:PM




I didn't say it did----did I ?

No, you didn't! (PERISH the thought, when you always claim to be right!!!) I did.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 12:34:PM
No, you didn't! (PERISH the thought, when you always claim to be right!!!) I did.





Well there you are.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 12:36:PM
I agree Roch, the attacks on Bill and insinuations he was a fraud were totally unacceptable.
Maggie May I remind you, he claimed police and his ex colleagues had been uneconomical with the truth, I wanted more from this, this is a powerful statement claiming to be police, he later admitted he wasn't police and deleted all such posts. How do you expect posters to react? 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 12:47:PM
It's never made much,if any difference when posters have laid bare their positions in life,past and present-------they still get flak whichever way you look at it. Look at the very recent posts about NGB. He can only state what he's permitted to and would never go into the ins and outs of what he did or presently doing,so why should anyone else ?   It's no big deal,not from my end anyway.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 12:48:PM
Maggie May I remind you, he claimed police and his ex colleagues had been uneconomical with the truth, I wanted more from this, this is a powerful statement claiming to be police, he later admitted he wasn't police and deleted all such posts. How do you expect posters to react?

He also claimed to know Taff Jones well enough to decide what his motivations would be in claiming he'd have stood up for Jeremy in court (even though he was one of the interrogators). He later said he met him once. If people are going to claim such things and they don't stand up to scrutiny, that's their problem.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 14, 2017, 01:00:PM
Maggie May I remind you, he claimed police and his ex colleagues had been uneconomical with the truth, I wanted more from this, this is a powerful statement claiming to be police, he later admitted he wasn't police and deleted all such posts. How do you expect posters to react?

Yes, it is certainly appropriate to require proof before simply believing something to be the truth.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 01:04:PM
I think Bill knows the forum enough not to trust anyone and for that I don't blame him. Why should he feel that he has to explain himself ? Does anyone else ? NO !
He didn't even have the warmest of welcomes which proves that even now hostilities are still showing.Tsk !!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 14, 2017, 01:33:PM
Ok, I accept what you say, I didn't attack her, Susan brings Bill up on a regular basis and she has had a dig some while back with Roch about my conduct towards Bill, first time I have been online for ages and she brings the Bill situation up again with Steve, it's constant reminding how awful people have been to Bill.  I simply reminded her why the Bill situation happened and Jackie's statement about Julie not wearing knickers, that's all, yet she turns it around to me attacking her.

With regard to me ignoring posts that's not the case

It has been accepted in this forum by most members that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) decided to sell her story to the NOTW and pose for the paper looking like she was wearing no knickers which is disgusting in itself
This women has claimed and expects us to believe that she knew all about the murders before they happened and knew her boyfriend was responsible straight after the murders and said nothing
Offered although it was not her duty to view the bodies of two little boys bodies with bullet holes in them curtesy of her boyfriend she was sleeping with and then attended the funeral standing next to the father of the two young boys her boyfriend had shot

She must be the consummate actress
I tell you what happened in a few words

She was eaten up with jealousy, made up a Story Jeremy was responsible, a friend toddled off to the police and then she dug a hole she couldn't get out of

She lied to the police, she lied in court and she sold her mucky story for £25,000

She is pure evil through and through and will go down in history for her behaviour and her actions


Then
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 14, 2017, 01:38:PM
I think Bill knows the forum enough not to trust anyone and for that I don't blame him. Why should he feel that he has to explain himself ? Does anyone else ? NO !
He didn't even have the warmest of welcomes which proves that even now hostilities are still showing.Tsk !!

I completely agree
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 14, 2017, 01:43:PM
But we're never privy to the information Susan-this site is the last to know! As far as time is concerned I'd be the first one to admit I get generous holidays, but I need them. I have also in the past given up time for extra-curricular activities and I would bet any barrister cannot match this. I don't care whether he dislikes the language in my posts or not: I write primarily for myself and don't target a specific audience.

I think your scared Steve, Jeremy has a highly qualified Barrister at the end of the phone to call anytime when he needs advice on anything.  How many people are privileged and lucky enough to have this kind of help

I hope that soon NGB is involved in the overturning of this conviction
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 14, 2017, 01:46:PM
There were two visits to Colin's flat at Kilburn: the first weekend after the tragedy Julie was still being threatened that she would be an accessory to the murders and went along reluctantly with Jeremy's wishes. The second time was at Colin's request and a tearful Julie with Liz by her side told him she didn't believe her then boyfriend would proceed with the murders. When she got to the part that Daniel and Nicholas would grow up disturbed Colin switched off mentally and lay the blame squarely where it lay: on Jeremy Bamber's shoulders.
[/quo

how do you explain her pose and smile in the NOTW
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 01:54:PM
With regard to me ignoring posts that's not the case

It has been accepted in this forum by most members that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) decided to sell her story to the NOTW and pose for the paper looking like she was wearing no knickers which is disgusting in itself
This women has claimed and expects us to believe that she knew all about the murders before they happened and knew her boyfriend was responsible straight after the murders and said nothing
Offered although it was not her duty to view the bodies of two little boys bodies with bullet holes in them curtesy of her boyfriend she was sleeping with and then attended the funeral standing next to the father of the two young boys her boyfriend had shot

She must be the consummate actress
I tell you what happened in a few words

She was eaten up with jealousy, made up a Story Jeremy was responsible, a friend toddled off to the police and then she dug a hole she couldn't get out of

She lied to the police, she lied in court and she sold her mucky story for £25,000

She is pure evil through and through and will go down in history for her behaviour and her actions


Then

And this has given you a wonderful excuse for AGAIN reminding people of your obsession with Julie's apparent lack of underwear. Yet AGAIN, you're probably not correct in your belief that "most members" believe that Julie decided to sell her story to the NOTW. I don't believe she instructed her solicitor to do such on her behalf. I think it more likely that her solicitor looked round to get her the best deal and she went along with his findings. I, for one, don't believe she went to the photo shoot intending for it to become what it did. Professional photographers ALL know tricks of getting models to look the way they want them to portray themselves as being. It probably didn't take much to persuade her that she was wealthy/powerful/sexy and the world was her oyster. A bit of satin thrown over her head, tied like a toga and hitched revealingly high did the rest.....................and before you throw at me that I'm defending/condoning it, I'M NOT.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 01:55:PM
I think Bill knows the forum enough not to trust anyone and for that I don't blame him. Why should he feel that he has to explain himself ? Does anyone else ? NO !
He didn't even have the warmest of welcomes which proves that even now hostilities are still showing.Tsk !!

I think you have a short memory - not too long ago I was 'harassed' to post letters that Jeremy had sent me in order to prove to other posters that what I stated here, was the truth. There are far too many double standards here and I get fed up with the holier than thou BS. No one here knows Bill Robertson and if he makes claims he (like everyone else) he should be prepared to back it up -  and Bill made lots of claims.

It may suit supporters to just have the claim, without the proof as it allows them to wallow for at least a little while. Eventually though, such great revelations always end up as Jack Sh*t
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 01:58:PM
With regard to me ignoring posts that's not the case

It has been accepted in this forum by most members that Julie Smerchanski(nee Mugford) decided to sell her story to the NOTW and pose for the paper looking like she was wearing no knickers which is disgusting in itself
This women has claimed and expects us to believe that she knew all about the murders before they happened and knew her boyfriend was responsible straight after the murders and said nothing
Offered although it was not her duty to view the bodies of two little boys bodies with bullet holes in them curtesy of her boyfriend she was sleeping with and then attended the funeral standing next to the father of the two young boys her boyfriend had shot

She must be the consummate actress
I tell you what happened in a few words

She was eaten up with jealousy, made up a Story Jeremy was responsible, a friend toddled off to the police and then she dug a hole she couldn't get out of

She lied to the police, she lied in court and she sold her mucky story for £25,000

She is pure evil through and through and will go down in history for her behaviour and her actions


Then

But I thought she was coached by the police who (along with the relatives) all conspired against Jeremy? This gets confusing  :-\
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 14, 2017, 05:32:PM
And this has given you a wonderful excuse for AGAIN reminding people of your obsession with Julie's apparent lack of underwear. Yet AGAIN, you're probably not correct in your belief that "most members" believe that Julie decided to sell her story to the NOTW. I don't believe she instructed her solicitor to do such on her behalf. I think it more likely that her solicitor looked round to get her the best deal and she went along with his findings. I, for one, don't believe she went to the photo shoot intending for it to become what it did. Professional photographers ALL know tricks of getting models to look the way they want them to portray themselves as being. It probably didn't take much to persuade her that she was wealthy/powerful/sexy and the world was her oyster. A bit of satin thrown over her head, tied like a toga and hitched revealingly high did the rest.....................and before you throw at me that I'm defending/condoning it, I'M NOT.

Maybe you would like to make a list Jane that would be interesting
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 05:35:PM
Maybe you would like to make a list Jane that would be interesting

A list of what? How can I make a list of negatives?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 05:43:PM
As I recall a journalist here made efforts to contact JM for an interview.  He did not get anywhere with the approach and he enlisted the help of a journalist in Canada who knew JM and had written about her before (not anything to do with the Bamber case).  The Canadian journalist did not get anywhere with JM either and then he published an article based upon the briefing he had received from the UK journalist.  In addition I seem to recall that around the same time Simon McKay made public his intention to try to secure JM's attendance for cross examination in the Court of Appeal if leave to appeal had been granted and this may also have fuelled the story.  I may not have recalled all the details correctly but I think the gist of it is correct.
NGB, did Jeremy take the stand in his trial, is there any statements and cross examining of Jeremy's testimony at court to view?  If not do you know why no information is available.  Thanks NGB
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 05:49:PM
NGB, did Jeremy take the stand in his trial, is there any statements and cross examining of Jeremy's testimony at court to view?  If not do you know why no information is available.  Thanks NGB

Justice, the only thing I know about Jeremy being on the stand are the legendary -and arrogant- words issued to prosecuting counsel "That is for you to prove"...............or words to that effect.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 05:52:PM
Justice, the only thing I know about Jeremy being on the stand are the legendary -and arrogant- words issued to prosecuting counsel "That is for you to prove"...............or words to that effect.
I just cannot understand why it's not available then Jane, it's an important part of the case, the main person is missing.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 06:06:PM
Justice, the only thing I know about Jeremy being on the stand are the legendary -and arrogant- words issued to prosecuting counsel "That is for you to prove"...............or words to that effect.





It must have been a damn stupid question then.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 07:24:PM
I just cannot understand why it's not available then Jane, it's an important part of the case, the main person is missing.

He did take the stand - yes.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 07:30:PM




It must have been a damn stupid question then.

No, he was just being Jeremy.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 07:35:PM
He did take the stand - yes.
Thanks Caroline only just seen this. I'm sure supporters would like to see how the main man performed at trial?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 07:36:PM
No, he was just being Jeremy.





Something else you profess to know ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 07:50:PM




Something else you profess to know ?

No, just observing his behaviours in general.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 07:59:PM
No, just observing his behaviours in general.






Unless you've had children,you don't know. Very few of them are angels,unless you know different.
You certainly weren't observing 24/7,so how is it you know,through gossip from curtain-twitchers ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 08:02:PM





Unless you've had children,you don't know. Very few of them are angels,unless you know different.
You certainly weren't observing 24/7,so how is it you know,through gossip from curtain-twitchers ?

Same reason you profess to know how he was/is from little other than reading about him. At least Jane knows people who knew the family. By the way, I don't have kids either but I was one once!  ;)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 08:18:PM
Same reason you profess to know how he was/is from little other than reading about him. At least Jane knows people who knew the family. By the way, I don't have kids either but I was one once!  ;)





 I can pick up behaviours of children because during my college years when training,I spent half days in a nursery learning about behaviours etc. No two kids were alike,but I got to know the different characteristics which teaches you comparisons in different childhood situations and the reactions they displayed.

Did Jane know the family growing up in order to judge Jeremy's behaviour ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 08:21:PM





Unless you've had children,you don't know. Very few of them are angels,unless you know different.
You certainly weren't observing 24/7,so how is it you know,through gossip from curtain-twitchers ?

How come you, with no training, and having never met him, claim to know Jeremy inside out, but refuse to allow that I can judge by peoples modes of behaviour the difference between who the are and who they present to be?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 08:30:PM
How come you, with no training, and having never met him, claim to know Jeremy inside out, but refuse to allow that I can judge by peoples modes of behaviour the difference between who the are and who they present to be?




What do you mean " no training ?"
So you didn't know/see him growing up then  ? Obviously not.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 08:30:PM



What do you mean " no training ?"
So you didn't know/see him growing up then  ? Obviously not.

Did you?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 08:53:PM
Did you?





No I didn't but you keep professing to know the family,not me. Surely you must have been kept up to speed with his " behaviour  ?".
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 14, 2017, 09:01:PM
I just cannot understand why it's not available then Jane, it's an important part of the case, the main person is missing.

You are right . Is it referred to in any of the many books ?

I bet it is the newspaper archives , they would have picked out what they considered to be the juicy bits .

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 09:02:PM




No I didn't but you keep professing to know the family,not me. Surely you must have been kept up to speed with his " behaviour  ?".

AS I said to your friend when she levied the same accusation at me. Please find me the post in which I claim to know any of the family members personally. I seem to recall she even accused me of being one of them. You can't be THAT stupid.......................can you? :o
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 09:04:PM




I can pick up behaviours of children because during my college years when training,I spent half days in a nursery learning about behaviours etc. No two kids were alike,but I got to know the different characteristics which teaches you comparisons in different childhood situations and the reactions they displayed.

Did Jane know the family growing up in order to judge Jeremy's behaviour ?

So did I when I did my psychology degree!  ;)

No. I don't think she did but she is several degrees of separation closer than you.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 14, 2017, 09:05:PM
You are right . Is it referred to in any of the many books ?

I bet it is the newspaper archives , they would have picked out what they considered to be the juicy bits .

I THINK I understood that they hadn't been released. WHY?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 09:08:PM
You are right . Is it referred to in any of the many books ?

I bet it is the newspaper archives , they would have picked out what they considered to be the juicy bits .
Cant find it anywhere, I would have thought Bamber has a copy but chooses not to show it?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 09:09:PM
You are right . Is it referred to in any of the many books ?

I bet it is the newspaper archives , they would have picked out what they considered to be the juicy bits .

It;s referred to in Wilkes.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 09:12:PM
It;s referred to in Wilkes.
Ha Ha, thanks Caroline I'm sat with the book under my chair, I ordered it for 28 pence and never read it.  Will have to read it now.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 14, 2017, 09:52:PM
NGB, did Jeremy take the stand in his trial, is there any statements and cross examining of Jeremy's testimony at court to view?  If not do you know why no information is available.  Thanks NGB

Hi Justice.  Jeremy did give evidence and was cross examined at length.  There are press reports of his evidence but I have not seen a transcript of his evidence.  The problem is that although all evidence in court is recorded a written transcript is only prepared when specifically requested, typically for appeal purposes.

Where a transcript is obtained it is only of parts of the evidence relevant to specific appeal points.  The transcript extracts here are only parts of the evidence, which is a pity.  It would be interesting to see a transcript of the entire trial.

 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 14, 2017, 09:57:PM
Hi Justice.  Jeremy did give evidence and was cross examined at length.  There are press reports of his evidence but I have not seen a transcript of his evidence.  The problem is that although all evidence in court is recorded a written transcript is only prepared when specifically requested, typically for appeal purposes.

Where a transcript is obtained it is only of parts of the evidence relevant to specific appeal points.  The transcript extracts here are only parts of the evidence, which is a pity.  It would be interesting to see a transcript of the entire trial.
Thanks NGB, I've always wondered why it wasn't available, they seem hard to get hold of I found this out with the son in law, I was always under the impression because it's a public trial these things were open to the public, but I suppose costs are an issue.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: ngb1066 on August 14, 2017, 10:03:PM
Thanks NGB, I've always wondered why it wasn't available, they seem hard to get hold of I found this out with the son in law, I was always under the impression because it's a public trial these things were open to the public, but I suppose costs are an issue.

Yes, I think it does come down to costs.  However, with modern technology I am surprised that complete transcripts are not more readily available.

 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 14, 2017, 10:22:PM
Thanks NGB, I've always wondered why it wasn't available, they seem hard to get hold of I found this out with the son in law, I was always under the impression because it's a public trial these things were open to the public, but I suppose costs are an issue.

Perhaps Mike has a copy?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 14, 2017, 10:29:PM
Thanks NGB, I've always wondered why it wasn't available, they seem hard to get hold of I found this out with the son in law, I was always under the impression because it's a public trial these things were open to the public, but I suppose costs are an issue.

A list of all surviving transcripts can be found here.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920)

Jeremy's does not exist.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 14, 2017, 10:31:PM
Perhaps Mike has a copy?

A copy of JBs trial examination was never requested. There is no record of it now (according to the COA) :(
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 14, 2017, 10:44:PM
Am I the only one that finds that a bit strange ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 15, 2017, 12:00:AM
A list of all surviving transcripts can be found here.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920)

Jeremy's does not exist.

Erm, what about PMS/15?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920
 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 15, 2017, 12:06:AM
Erm, what about PMS/15?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920
 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920)

Reference Paul Michael Sanders Volume 15 is the cross examination of JB.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: David1819 on August 15, 2017, 12:20:AM
Erm, what about PMS/15?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920
 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1988.msg60920.html#msg60920)

I was going by my recollection of this point in the COA

"137. No transcript has survived as to the appellant's evidence in chief, although it seems clear from the summing up that it was entirely consistent with that which he had told the police. A transcript of his cross-examination is available. In cross-examination the appellant said Sheila Caffell had frequent delusions and had spoken to him of suicide."

Seems half of it is missing?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Hartley. on August 15, 2017, 07:18:AM
I was going by my recollection of this point in the COA

"137. No transcript has survived as to the appellant's evidence in chief, although it seems clear from the summing up that it was entirely consistent with that which he had told the police. A transcript of his cross-examination is available. In cross-examination the appellant said Sheila Caffell had frequent delusions and had spoken to him of suicide."

Seems half of it is missing?

It's all missing from the forum. The cross examination transcript probably has little propaganda value.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: justice on August 15, 2017, 09:09:AM
It's all missing from the forum. The cross examination transcript probably has little propaganda value.
yes you can see why Hartley, he concedes that he robbed the caravan park for greed and money.  He also concedes that he had told Julie's mother that June was a contributory factor in Sheila's madness, he also concedes he told James Richards (Julie's flat mate) 2 or 3 times ' I hate my fucking parents'   I say this because he accepted and thought that only two witnesses were lying about him, that was Julie Mumford and Robert Boutflour.

What I also find interesting, it was Anthony Arlidge  ( prosecution) who noticed one of the jurors had shut his eyes and some thought he had been sleeping.  Also the fact they found blood spots on Jeremy's Bathrobe, jacket, and passenger car seat weeks after the murders, they could only prove it was human blood though.  This goes against the conspiracy theorists, because if they wanted to set Bamber up this was an opertunity.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 11:43:AM
yes you can see why Hartley, he concedes that he robbed the caravan park for greed and money.  He also concedes that he had told Julie's mother that June was a contributory factor in Sheila's madness, he also concedes he told James Richards (Julie's flat mate) 2 or 3 times ' I hate my fucking parents'   I say this because he accepted and thought that only two witnesses were lying about him, that was Julie Mumford and Robert Boutflour.

What I also find interesting, it was Anthony Arlidge  ( prosecution) who noticed one of the jurors had shut his eyes and some thought he had been sleeping.  Also the fact they found blood spots on Jeremy's Bathrobe, jacket, and passenger car seat weeks after the murders, they could only prove it was human blood though.  This goes against the conspiracy theorists, because if they wanted to set Bamber up this was an opertunity.


Something I find interesting is that no one -who knew Jeremy prior to the murders- has shouted from the rooftops, that it was inconceivable that he could have committed this crime. We are assured by a member here that she knows someone who was at school with him and seems to share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum? It's the world who needed to know, via whatever means at his disposal, ie television, national press, local radio. Not a peep, however from anyone willing to say, publicly, that it was unthinkable that Jeremy could have done such a thing. I KNOW, beyond a shadow of doubt that my friends would support me totally. SO. What might this lack of support for him mean? -I'm about to do an Adam......................

A) Jeremy had no school friends?

B) Jeremy had no school friends who liked him?

C) Jeremy had no college friends?

D) Jeremy had no college friends who liked him?


E) Jeremy had no work friends?

F) Jeremy had no work friends who liked him?

G) Those who were at school with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

H) Those who were at college with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

I) Those who worked with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

J) It was a case of revenge being a dish best taken cold?

K) Jeremy had never done anything for anyone without a hidden agenda?

I'm told that there's a whole list of testimonials to him on the OS. I'm certain Jeremy presents, NOW,  as being very different from how he was then, although I'm told he still has a penchant for dumping those of no further use to him. Echos of who he really is, perhaps?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 12:16:PM

Something I find interesting is that no one -who knew Jeremy prior to the murders- has shouted from the rooftops, that it was inconceivable that he could have committed this crime. We are assured by a member here that she knows someone who was at school with him and seems to share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum? It's the world who needed to know, via whatever means at his disposal, ie television, national press, local radio. Not a peep, however from anyone willing to say, publicly, that it was unthinkable that Jeremy could have done such a thing. I KNOW, beyond a shadow of doubt that my friends would support me totally. SO. What might this lack of support for him mean? -I'm about to do an Adam......................

A) Jeremy had no school friends?

B) Jeremy had no school friends who liked him?

C) Jeremy had no college friends?

D) Jeremy had no college friends who liked him?


E) Jeremy had no work friends?

F) Jeremy had no work friends who liked him?

E) Those who were at school with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

G) Those who worked with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

H) It was a case of revenge being a dish best taken cold?

I) Jeremy had never done anything for anyone without a hidden agenda?

I'm told that there's a whole list of testimonials to him on the OS. I'm certain Jeremy presents, NOW,  as being very different from how he was then, although I'm told he still has a penchant for dumping those of no further use to him. Echos of who he really is, perhaps?

That is because a character reference in a murder case is not particularly relevant plus i think a lot of people are scared to try and defend a man who is charged with mass murder . Also there may be statements we have not seen .

Barbara gave him a glowing report . Then changed her mind . Strange that .

I have seen other reports as well .there are names and testimonies on sites . Just because they are not on here does not mean they don't exist .

Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 12:21:PM
Here is one for you , plus interesting information on Sheila
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 12:38:PM
Aren't we ALL different now to what we used to be ? Older and Wiser ?

Lots of children prefer to be on their own at school rather than join a gang. Many have been interviewed on TV stating that they have no friends. Why should this appear/be odd ?
Because of this personal preference with a child,nobody professes to like them,which I see is their problem and not the one who's deemed " anti-social ".
An upbringing from the norm can also present such in a child.

JB's work on the farm would have also brought its own problems where he obviously followed his parents views on familiarity with co-workers who were mostly on a hired seasonal contract,therefore they were workers and not friends,in the sense of the word. Though it is stated that they got on with Jeremy.

Because Jeremy appeared " different " to others doesn't give anyone the right to point a finger in the case of murder,but that's their mentality should anyone be different to them and they have a lot to learn. Where ignorance is bliss,etc etc.

So,because of the lack of certain qualities in your world makes for murderers ?

Jeremy and Sheila were brought up in a strict household,which,if you've studied psychology,can have its drawbacks in some,particularly females who in time are the ones most likely to rebel on account of their hormonal makeup.

June only had friends from church and not the surrounding area.Other than that she had her sister,so she wasn't exactly the life and soul of any party was she ? I can't imagine living in that household a barrel of laughs either.

However,given that list of negatives is by no means a recipe for a murderer.

For all the years my brother worked,he hasn't got one friend because of his position within his job. People are downright horrible if they think you're getting on in life. He only got where he did through intense studying and hard work.
Because he's now a lot older he wishes he'd made more friends,but as I told him,there'd have been no guarantee of their loyalty towards him for who he was as a person.

As for " shouting from the roof-tops " regarding Jeremy's innocence, I think the internet/Web does that on a more indepth level. No more can be done than is already and I can assure you that the results will have been worth the wait.     
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 12:39:PM
That is because a character reference in a murder case is not particularly relevant plus i think a lot of people are scared to try and defend a man who is charged with mass murder . Also there may be statements we have not seen .

Barbara gave him a glowing report . Then changed her mind . Strange that .

I have seen other reports as well .there are names and testimonies on sites . Just because they are not on here does not mean they don't exist .

I think that's just making excuses, Jan. NONE of these people you speak of made their presence known, in defense of him, at the time the crime was committed. I've seen it implied that there were offer which were declined by the prosecution. WHAT did it have to do with the prosecution, anyway. If such an offer had been on the table, surely the defense would have grabbed it with both hands? What would any of us, here have done, had it been OUR good and trusted friend who'd been charged? We'd have got the message out there, somehow, that a terrible mistake had been made. I'm aware that nothing I've said makes Jeremy a murderer, but I rather think it provides insight to his character and might tell us what those who knew him really thought of him ie, Barbara's change of heart? I'm not saying I don't know ANYONE who thinks he's innocent  -strangely, it still seems to be the 10-2 ratio of the jury- but it's more about doubt than conviction. and then there's the unquestionable fact that I live where it happened which has to make a difference.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 12:45:PM
Aren't you also making excuses for his " guilt ",Jane ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 12:55:PM
Aren't we ALL different now to what we used to be ? Older and Wiser ?

Lots of children prefer to be on their own at school rather than join a gang. Many have been interviewed on TV stating that they have no friends. Why should this appear/be odd ?
Because of this personal preference with a child,nobody professes to like them,which I see is their problem and not the one who's deemed " anti-social ".
An upbringing from the norm can also present such in a child.

JB's work on the farm would have also brought its own problems where he obviously followed his parents views on familiarity with co-workers who were mostly on a hired seasonal contract,therefore they were workers and not friends,in the sense of the word. Though it is stated that they got on with Jeremy.

Because Jeremy appeared " different " to others doesn't give anyone the right to point a finger in the case of murder,but that's their mentality should anyone be different to them and they have a lot to learn. Where ignorance is bliss,etc etc.

So,because of the lack of certain qualities in your world makes for murderers ?

Jeremy and Sheila were brought up in a strict household,which,if you've studied psychology,can have its drawbacks in some,particularly females who in time are the ones most likely to rebel on account of their hormonal makeup.

June only had friends from church and not the surrounding area.Other than that she had her sister,so she wasn't exactly the life and soul of any party was she ? I can't imagine living in that household a barrel of laughs either.

However,given that list of negatives is by no means a recipe for a murderer.

For all the years my brother worked,he hasn't got one friend because of his position within his job. People are downright horrible if they think you're getting on in life. He only got where he did through intense studying and hard work.
Because he's now a lot older he wishes he'd made more friends,but as I told him,there'd have been no guarantee of their loyalty towards him for who he was as a person.

As for " shouting from the roof-tops " regarding Jeremy's innocence, I think the internet/Web does that on a more indepth level. No more can be done than is already and I can assure you that the results will have been worth the wait.     

You're painting a picture of a character which doesn't exist in Jeremy, although you're doing a very good job of making him stand out as being entirely different from his peer group. Contrary to how you portray him, he liked nothing more than holding court, lording it, playing host, flashing money -which he believed it was "important to have whilst you're young". I don't believe he was different from his peer group. He came from a similar background, socially, politically and financially., but generally -though NOT universally- I don't believe he was liked. NO ONE has defended him, even to say he was a quiet boy who liked to keep himself to himself. Perhaps you should study the psychology you very broadly hint that I haven't.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 12:58:PM
Aren't you also making excuses for his " guilt ",Jane ?

I think it's more that I'm interested in the explanation for it.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 12:59:PM
You're painting a picture of a character which doesn't exist in Jeremy, although you're doing a very good job of making him stand out as being entirely different from his peer group. Contrary to how you portray him, he liked nothing more than holding court, lording it, playing host, flashing money -which he believed it was "important to have whilst you're young". I don't believe he was different from his peer group. He came from a similar background, socially, politically and financially., but generally -though NOT universally- I don't believe he was liked. Perhaps you should study the psychology you very broadly hint that I haven't.





What has the above got to do with a " murderer ?"

Perhaps if you'd thrown a violent disposition or a short temper into the mix,then I'd have agreed.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 01:05:PM
Here is one for you , plus interesting information on Sheila

Exactly - here's 'one'. None from his peers, because they all thought he was guilty.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 01:06:PM




What has the above got to do with a " murderer ?"

Perhaps if you'd thrown a violent disposition or a short temper into the mix,then I'd have agreed.

It isn't necessary for him to have had a short temper or a violent disposition to have had a violent mind.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 01:12:PM
Many killers have been described as 'mild mannered'.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 01:15:PM
You don't seem to understand or grasp the idea that there are many people who are happy in their own company and who don't feel the need for friends. Everyone's different in this respect.
Changing times have brought about this inane need to have thousands of" friends" on the internet.Why ?
What's this about ?

Because Jeremy never minded his " loner " persona is why he's managed to remain sane all these years.
His character had been built from an early age which fortunately left him in good stead to enable him to survive incarceration like he has. Someone with a weaker character probably wouldn't have been alive today. It's only his background that has taught him survival,plus his never ending fight for justice.
 
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 01:20:PM
You don't seem to understand or grasp the idea that there are many people who are happy in their own company and who don't feel the need for friends. Everyone's different in this respect.
Changing times have brought about this inane need to have thousands of" friends" on the internet.Why ?
What's this about ?

Because Jeremy never minded his " loner " persona is why he's managed to remain sane all these years.
His character had been built from an early age which fortunately left him in good stead to enable him to survive incarceration like he has. Someone with a weaker character probably wouldn't have been alive today. It's only his background that has taught him survival,plus his never ending fight for justice.

You paint a strange picture of a man who liked nothing more than being the centre of attention. There is NOTHING about his character to suggest he preferred his own company! He was a show off. He like to brag. Where was the fun in bragging to himself?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 01:22:PM
It isn't necessary for him to have had a short temper or a violent disposition to have had a violent mind.





I would have said it was a given to give that urge to kill.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 01:25:PM
Many killers have been described as 'mild mannered'.





Still with the hidden urge to kill though. Spur of the moment killers.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 01:26:PM




I would have said it was a given to give that urge to kill.

I can recommend some excellent psychology text books.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 15, 2017, 01:36:PM

Something I find interesting is that no one -who knew Jeremy prior to the murders- has shouted from the rooftops, that it was inconceivable that he could have committed this crime. We are assured by a member here that she knows someone who was at school with him and seems to share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum? It's the world who needed to know, via whatever means at his disposal, ie television, national press, local radio. Not a peep, however from anyone willing to say, publicly, that it was unthinkable that Jeremy could have done such a thing. I KNOW, beyond a shadow of doubt that my friends would support me totally. SO. What might this lack of support for him mean? -I'm about to do an Adam......................

A) Jeremy had no school friends?

B) Jeremy had no school friends who liked him?

C) Jeremy had no college friends?

D) Jeremy had no college friends who liked him?


E) Jeremy had no work friends?

F) Jeremy had no work friends who liked him?

G) Those who were at school with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

H) Those who were at college with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

I) Those who worked with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

J) It was a case of revenge being a dish best taken cold?

K) Jeremy had never done anything for anyone without a hidden agenda?

I'm told that there's a whole list of testimonials to him on the OS. I'm certain Jeremy presents, NOW,  as being very different from how he was then, although I'm told he still has a penchant for dumping those of no further use to him. Echos of who he really is, perhaps?

Once again your a liar


o share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum?


Show me the post where I have said the person who grew up with Jeremy (well known) shares the view Jerermy is a gorgeous fit boy

You need help you have got a serious problem
Jeremy had numerous women chasing him he was good looking
At no time speaking to Jeremy or writing to Jeremy have I ever asked to visit him
In fact at one time he was phoning me up so much that I said he should be spending his money on calls regarding legal matters
My only interest has been regarding the case but I care a lot about someone who I believe has been unfairly convicted of murder

Do not try and make my contact with Jeremy into some sordid event like Julie posing with no knickers on

Try reading the testimonials about Jeremy and you will find once again you have written complete rubbish

Try reading Barbara statements about Jeremy and you will find the truth and I hope Jeremy is in Goldhanger soon to put the record straghy
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 15, 2017, 01:40:PM

Something I find interesting is that no one -who knew Jeremy prior to the murders- has shouted from the rooftops, that it was inconceivable that he could have committed this crime. We are assured by a member here that she knows someone who was at school with him and seems to share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum? It's the world who needed to know, via whatever means at his disposal, ie television, national press, local radio. Not a peep, however from anyone willing to say, publicly, that it was unthinkable that Jeremy could have done such a thing. I KNOW, beyond a shadow of doubt that my friends would support me totally. SO. What might this lack of support for him mean? -I'm about to do an Adam......................

A) Jeremy had no school friends?

Lie yes he did

B) Jeremy had no school friends who liked him?

Lie yes he did

C) Jeremy had no college friends?

D) Jeremy had no college friends who liked him?


E) Jeremy had no work friends?

Lie he worked with Barbara Wilson

F) Jeremy had no work friends who liked him?

Lie he worked with Barbara Wilson

G) Those who were at school with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

Lie

H) Those who were at college with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

I) Those who worked with him weren't surprised when he was charged?

Lie

J) It was a case of revenge being a dish best taken cold?
Rubbish

K) Jeremy had never done anything for anyone without a hidden agenda?

He moved Julie to her flat

I'm told that there's a whole list of testimonials to him on the OS. I'm certain Jeremy presents, NOW,  as being very different from how he was then, although I'm told he still has a penchant for dumping those of no further use to him. Echos of who he really is, perhaps?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 01:42:PM
I think that's just making excuses, Jan. NONE of these people you speak of made their presence known, in defense of him, at the time the crime was committed. I've seen it implied that there were offer which were declined by the prosecution. WHAT did it have to do with the prosecution, anyway. If such an offer had been on the table, surely the defense would have grabbed it with both hands? What would any of us, here have done, had it been OUR good and trusted friend who'd been charged? We'd have got the message out there, somehow, that a terrible mistake had been made. I'm aware that nothing I've said makes Jeremy a murderer, but I rather think it provides insight to his character and might tell us what those who knew him really thought of him ie, Barbara's change of heart? I'm not saying I don't know ANYONE who thinks he's innocent  -strangely, it still seems to be the 10-2 ratio of the jury- but it's more about doubt than conviction. and then there's the unques

tionable fact that I live where it happened which has to make a difference.



Yes we know .

There are character statements for him ,  they are out there . Just not on here .

I was explaining why they would not be used in court . Not making excuses .
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 01:42:PM
You paint a strange picture of a man who liked nothing more than being the centre of attention. There is NOTHING about his character to suggest he preferred his own company! He was a show off. He like to brag. Where was the fun in bragging to himself?





Still not the ingredients for the murderer that you make him out to be. This was his personality when he was out and about. Is there something wrong with it ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 15, 2017, 01:43:PM
Your posts are an embarrassment
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 01:44:PM
I think that's just making excuses, Jan. NONE of these people you speak of made their presence known, in defense of him, at the time the crime was committed. I've seen it implied that there were offer which were declined by the prosecution. WHAT did it have to do with the prosecution, anyway. If such an offer had been on the table, surely the defense would have grabbed it with both hands? What would any of us, here have done, had it been OUR good and trusted friend who'd been charged? We'd have got the message out there, somehow, that a terrible mistake had been made. I'm aware that nothing I've said makes Jeremy a murderer, but I rather think it provides insight to his character and might tell us what those who knew him really thought of him ie, Barbara's change of heart? I'm not saying I don't know ANYONE who thinks he's innocent  -strangely, it still seems to be the 10-2 ratio of the jury- but it's more about doubt than conviction. and then there's the unquestionable fact that I live where it happened which has to make a difference.



Hang on , if you live there and have all this personal inside knowledge that your claim , how can you ever have believed he was innocent ? Did all your original contacts change their mind as well ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 01:53:PM
A solicitor who was famed for his libellous scribings about the McCanns,also lives in Essex,also says that Jeremy is guilty and has also contributed towards Paul Harrison's book,is also famous for setting up petitions online and having people deliver posters for his hate trail/campaign.
I wonder-----------------------------------
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:01:PM
Once again your a liar


o share her view of him being "a gorgeous, fit boy". Fat lot of good that is. Why share with some obscure female from a forum?


Show me the post where I have said the person who grew up with Jeremy (well known) shares the view Jerermy is a gorgeous fit boy

You need help you have got a serious problem
Jeremy had numerous women chasing him he was good looking
At no time speaking to Jeremy or writing to Jeremy have I ever asked to visit him
In fact at one time he was phoning me up so much that I said he should be spending his money on calls regarding legal matters
My only interest has been regarding the case but I care a lot about someone who I believe has been unfairly convicted of murder

Do not try and make my contact with Jeremy into some sordid event like Julie posing with no knickers on

Try reading the testimonials about Jeremy and you will find once again you have written complete rubbish

Try reading Barbara statements about Jeremy and you will find the truth and I hope Jeremy is in Goldhanger soon to put the record straghy

Hahaa! The screaming virago is back. Before you label me a liar, you stupid dim wit, READ what I say. I posed questions. I didn't make statements. do you understand the difference?? I SAID the person SEEMS to share you view.

And I see you have to put yourself centre stage here. WHERE have I ever suggested that you asked Jeremy if you could visit him? Tell you what though. I bet you were gagging to be invited. I can hear how close you believed yourself to be with him, -"I care a lot"- and when you keep bringing up that Julie allegedly wore no knickers, it starts to sound -in YOUR words- sordid.................and guess what, you're the one who's making it sound so.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:06:PM


Hang on , if you live there and have all this personal inside knowledge that your claim , how can you ever have believed he was innocent ? Did all your original contacts change their mind as well ?

How would I know, Jan? I've moved twice since then. My main reason for thinking him innocent was that he was adopted.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:13:PM
Rather an unbelievable excuse for thinking a person innocent ? I don't believe you.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:15:PM
Rather an unbelievable excuse for thinking a person innocent ? I don't believe you.

No more so than you deciding he was innocent. Both equally unreliable conclusions.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:16:PM
No more so than you deciding he was innocent. Both equally unreliable conclusions.




I didn't use adoption as an excuse.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:18:PM



I didn't use adoption as an excuse.

Both come down to emotional/sentimental which ever way YOU choose to see it.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:19:PM
Both come down to emotional/sentimental which ever way YOU choose to see it.






Mine doesn't-------yours did. That's the difference.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:22:PM





Mine doesn't-------yours did. That's the difference.

I believe yours did but of course, you're never going to admit it.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:29:PM
I believe yours did but of course, you're never going to admit it.






Show me where it did,then I WILL admit it because I'd have been inclined to have said the opposite !
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:31:PM





Show me where it did,then I WILL admit it !

No you won't.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:46:PM
No you won't.





YES I will--------because you and I both know that I didn't say it,don't WE ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 02:49:PM




YES I will--------because you and I both know that I didn't say it,don't WE ?

Oh! FFS!! What the hell are you accusing me of accusing you of, now?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 02:58:PM
Oh! FFS!! What the hell are you accusing me of accusing you of, now?





It's YOU who's accused ME--------get off the gin !! I've no patience with you !
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 03:12:PM




It's YOU who's accused ME--------get off the gin !! I've no patience with you !

The only thing I've accused you of -and you admit to it anyway- is your refusal to admit to being wrong/insisting you're right/having more knowledge about everything than anyone else....................Oh! and you get arsey when someone hits a nerve. ie "get off the gin !!" and "I've no patience with you". There's no point in you attempting to sink to the depths of TSV. Even you will never achieve that.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 03:23:PM
The only thing I've accused you of -and you admit to it anyway- is your refusal to admit to being wrong/insisting you're right/having more knowledge about everything than anyone else....................Oh! and you get arsey when someone hits a nerve. ie "get off the gin !!" and "I've no patience with you". There's no point in you attempting to sink to the depths of TSV. Even you will never achieve that.





You said that I gave the same excuse as you first did when you thought JB was innocent,and that excuse you gave was " because he was adopted. Then you continued to say that I'd also said that my ground for his innocence had been the same,i.e. adoption. Which was/is not true ! I then asked you to find where I'd supposedly said this and suddenly got ALL this SHIT from you ?? Swearing,accusations,you name it-----------so unnecessary.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 03:32:PM




You said that I gave the same excuse as you first did when you thought JB was innocent,and that excuse you gave was " because he was adopted. Then you continued to say that I'd also said that my ground for his innocence had been the same,i.e. adoption. Which was/is not true ! I then asked you to find where I'd supposedly said this and suddenly got ALL this SHIT from you ?? Swearing,accusations,you name it-----------so unnecessary.

Lookout, I thought you could read!! I, at least had the decency to apologize when I misread you -you'll find it a few posts back- but don't fret, I've come to expect little of it from you. I NEVER said that adoption was YOUR reason for believing Jeremy innocent. How could it be? You have so little understanding of it. What I DID say was that BOTH our conclusions were based of emotion/sentimentality.......................and if you'd have taken the trouble to read it properly instead of jumping to conclusions, that could have been the end of it.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: JackieD on August 15, 2017, 03:41:PM


Hang on , if you live there and have all this personal inside knowledge that your claim , how can you ever have believed he was innocent ? Did all your original contacts change their mind as well ?

Absolutely brilliant response, that has just made my day x
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 03:57:PM
How would I know, Jan? I've moved twice since then. My main reason for thinking him innocent was that he was adopted.


So let me get this clear , you don't have or did not have local contacts that led you to belive , from knowing him that he was capable of murder.

But you thought that as he was adopted he was probably innocent ?
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 04:07:PM
There are times when Jane talks in riddles and this is one of those times. However,it becomes everyone else's fault  ::)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 04:13:PM

So let me get this clear , you don't have or did not have local contacts that led you to belive , from knowing him that he was capable of murder.

But you thought that as he was adopted he was probably innocent ?

I really don't know why you've taken it upon yourself to give me the third degree, Jan. At the end of the day, I don't see who I knew, 30+ years ago, and my reasons for believing him innocent at the time, as being any of your business. I will tell you, though, that my very tenuous link with the Bambers probably goes back to when I was a child and is linked with Jeremy's God parents who shared a daily lady with my Great Aunt and Uncle who were near neighbours. It wasn't until the murders that I discovered that many of my friends were friends with the Bambers. Just to reiterate, I DID believe he was innocent because he was adopted.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 04:15:PM
Absolutely brilliant response, that has just made my day x

It takes little when one's intelligence is limited.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 04:30:PM
I really don't know why you've taken it upon yourself to give me the third degree, Jan. At the end of the day, I don't see who I knew, 30+ years ago, and my reasons for believing him innocent at the time, as being any of your business. I will tell you, though, that my very tenuous link with the Bambers probably goes back to when I was a child and is linked with Jeremy's God parents who shared a daily lady with my Great Aunt and Uncle who were near neighbours. It wasn't until the murders that I discovered that many of my friends were friends with the Bambers. Just to reiterate, I DID believe he was innocent because he was adopted.

It's not a third degree . You were the one claiming the link and superior knowledge.

Thanks for the information . It's a bit clearer .
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 04:34:PM
It's not a third degree . You were the one claiming the link and superior knowledge.

Thanks for the information . It's a bit clearer .

My, as YOU call it, "superior knowledge" probably comes from, and because of where I live, knowing more people closely connected to the case than most people here.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 05:15:PM

So let me get this clear , you don't have or did not have local contacts that led you to belive , from knowing him that he was capable of murder.

But you thought that as he was adopted he was probably innocent ?

As an adoptee, I imagine Jane wanted to believe he was innocent. Why are you having a go at her simple because she knows people who knew the family who believe he's guilty and because she wanted to believe the best of him? I thought you weren't keen on people getting personal. It comes to something when you have Jackie cheering you on!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 05:16:PM
There are times when Jane talks in riddles and this is one of those times. However,it becomes everyone else's fault  ::)

OMG! Talk about the pot calling the kettle!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 05:20:PM
It's not a third degree . You were the one claiming the link and superior knowledge.

Thanks for the information . It's a bit clearer .

That's the way it read it to me too. Perhaps you didn't know Jane was adopted - but you do now. That might explain to a few of you why she became interested in the case and why she was prepared to go against what others thought!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: lookout on August 15, 2017, 05:29:PM
I'll adopt her and give her a thick ear at the same time. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 05:42:PM
I'll adopt her and give her a thick ear at the same time. ;D ;D ;D ;D

I won't go to the same hell a second time, Lookout..............but thank-you for the offer.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 05:45:PM
Absolutely brilliant response, that has just made my day x

I suppose you have always been sure of innocence?  ::)
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jan on August 15, 2017, 05:57:PM
As an adoptee, I imagine Jane wanted to believe he was innocent. Why are you having a go at her simple because she knows people who knew the family who believe he's guilty and because she wanted to believe the best of him? I thought you weren't keen on people getting personal. It comes to something when you have Jackie cheering you on!


I have no influence over jackies posts .

I was not being personal

I was asking a question .

I was asking if janes opinion was based on living in the area and the people she knew who knew the bambers why she thought he was innocent in the first place and why then she changed her mind .

She has now cleared that up

I said thank you

I am sure she is adult enough to carry on posting and continue to criticise me herself without needing you to add fuel to the flames .
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 06:14:PM

I have no influence over jackies posts .

I was not being personal

I was asking a question .

I was asking if janes opinion was based on living in the area and the people she knew who knew the bambers why she thought he was innocent in the first place and why then she changed her mind .

She has now cleared that up

I said thank you

I am sure she is adult enough to carry on posting and continue to criticise me herself without needing you to add fuel to the flames .

You're not the right side of the question to claim you weren't being personal. I'll accept -although with reservations- that you MAY not have intended to be personal, but it certainly FELT personal and I felt interrogated, however, had you worded it as you have in the above post it may not have felt either. I'm at a loss as to why the information I gave you should have clarified anything. As for your criticism of Caroline's support of me I'm very grateful for it. It makes a pleasant change.
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 06:46:PM

I have no influence over jackies posts .

I was not being personal

I was asking a question .

I was asking if janes opinion was based on living in the area and the people she knew who knew the bambers why she thought he was innocent in the first place and why then she changed her mind .

She has now cleared that up

I said thank you

I am sure she is adult enough to carry on posting and continue to criticise me herself without needing you to add fuel to the flames .

Jane took it as personal so to her (and from where I was sitting) it was personal. No you don't control what Jackie posts and you don't control my posts either. If she is able to defend you then Jane deserves the same!
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Caroline on August 15, 2017, 06:51:PM
You're not the right side of the question to claim you weren't being personal. I'll accept -although with reservations- that you MAY not have intended to be personal, but it certainly FELT personal and I felt interrogated, however, had you worded it as you have in the above post it may not have felt either. I'm at a loss as to why the information I gave you should have clarified anything. As for your criticism of Caroline's support of me I'm very grateful for it. It makes a pleasant change.

Maybe now the stpid questions about why you post about Jeremy when he's locked up and the repetitive childish posting of old posts might desist. Somehow, I doubt it though.

I see Harry took the bible argument off to IA providing links galore to my old posts - you really know you're getting to someone when they do that. OY! Harry (aka Frankie Lee - or whatever), I don't post on IA anymore, I'll leave that to the errrrrmmmm 'heavy hitters' like Samson et al  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Did JB Have His Category Status Downgraded So Quickly By Prison Authoritys
Post by: Jane J on August 15, 2017, 07:00:PM
Maybe now the stpid questions about why you post about Jeremy when he's locked up and the repetitive childish posting of old posts might desist. Somehow, I doubt it though.

I see Harry took the bible argument off to IA providing links galore to my old posts - you really know you're getting to someone when they do that. OY! Harry (aka Frankie Lee - or whatever), I don't post on IA anymore, I'll leave that to the errrrrmmmm 'heavy hitters' like Samson et al  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seems no one posts on IA any longer. Samson likes talking to himself. He doesn't argue back ;D ;D ;D