Re: The murder of Jodi Jones

[Bullseye]

That’s unbelievable her house was not searched, surly that should have been done the same night, or ASAP after she was found. Not for evidence as such but for any clues to her movements that night. Also the defence documents, I really am shocked, you just take it for granted the defence get given everything police had in order to decide what is relevant or not. The more and more Iearn about this case and Scottish law worries me so much.

I’ve been smoking cannabis since I was 14, over 25 years I have never in all my life heard of someone buying a 9bar for personal use, not unless they had plenty money and even then! Also how anyone can say Luke was a dealer when he spent 10 to 20 at time, unless he dealt by the joint lol. Big time dealer my a$$.

It’s this joint she had in her system that’s bothering me. If she did not have it on way home, or in her house she must have had it after she left and before she was killed, how long does it take to get into your system as this is only around 45mins to an hours before she died, at the longest. Meaning she had it somewhere first before walking the path, or had it with someone at the v. If it was Luke then that’s even more time taken before he kills her, his time frame for the actual assault and murder keeps getting dwindled down to less and less. This must be one of the most brutal sustained attacked at record speed! Also if they were there having a smoke and the cousin and friend were At the v at the time they might have smelled something.
I can only assume a statement was taken from YW as she was so close to family, if there was one taken and not given to the defence do you know if this (and other info obtained during investigation that was not used) still exists or has it all now been destroyed never to be seen again?
I wish you all the best on the ongoing review, really hope the DNA is there to be retested, I honestly think this holds the key, either Luke dna is there after all or someone else. The people’s dna found on Jodi that were eliminated from the enquiry is a joke. Not sure how they were eliminated so quick, should have been treated as a suspect the exact same way Luke was, house searched etc. Makes you wonder if they had been given SK name rather than Luke as being the only one on scene with the body, would he now be locked up trying to prove his innocence? But I suppose there was no need to check out anyone else no matter what evidence cropped us as the police stated many times they have their man the just have to prove it, and here I thought police investigations worked the other way, we have the evidence now to find our guy?? Hey ho. I know nothing it seems.

[sandra L]

SIO Dobbie confirmed in court that no other house was searched under warrant during the entire investigation (other than Luke's mum's and dad's house). He then went on to say that police could only search people's houses if those people would "let them."

According to Judith's statements, she was simply asked for items from the house, which she handed over to investigators. There was, eventually, a "search" of Jodi's room, but it was several weeks into the investigation and appeared to have no specific purpose or goal - they took pictures of the room and logged them as "evidence," although it's not clear what they're supposed to be evidence of, other than that Jodi had a bedroom.

I've been trying to get the word out for years that what the defence gets is extremely limited - so many people have argued "He had the best defence lawyer in Scotland" and "the jury heard all  of the evidence" - Innocents Betrayed is 140,000 words of proof that the defence was fighting with one hand behind its back and the jury heard only a fraction of the available evidence.

Smoked cannabis is detectable in the bloodstream very quickly  - less than 20 minutes - but it also breaks down quickly - within a couple of hours, so there is really only a very small timescale for Jodi to have smoked the joint.

We know there was a statement taken from YW, because she told police that Ferris intended to go to the police on July 1st and tell them he was on the path ... but something changed his mind. However, the statement wasn't in the defence and we have no idea whether or not it covered YW's movements on the day/evening. There is also a claim that YW corroborated Ferris's claim that he arrived at her flat at 10pm, but again, I haven't seen the actual statement.

The point you make about SK could, in fact, apply to many of the others connected to the case - the police could have chosen any one of them and built a case against them (in some instances, and even stronger case than they built against Luke). That's not to say any of them were involved - just that the police have the ability to construct cases that way and it's only pure luck on behalf of the others that they, rather than Luke, are not rotting in a prison cell today. Once someone's been targeted, any evidence pointing away from them is ignored, discounted or given a plausible explanation (like the ludicrous DNA transfer theories for SK's DNA).

There are still avenues of investigation that can be pursued, the big question is, will the authorities be willing to release samples for testing, or will they say everything's been lost, destroyed, or degraded to the point of uselessness? Even as they announce the launch of 30 year old "cold case reviews" for unsolved crimes. Do they really think we're all that stupid?

[nugnug]

SIO Dobbie confirmed in court that no other house was searched under warrant during the entire investigation (other than Luke's mum's and dad's house). He then went on to say that police could only search people's houses if those people would "let them."

According to Judith's statements, she was simply asked for items from the house, which she handed over to investigators. There was, eventually, a "search" of Jodi's room, but it was several weeks into the investigation and appeared to have no specific purpose or goal - they took pictures of the room and logged them as "evidence," although it's not clear what they're supposed to be evidence of, other than that Jodi had a bedroom.

I've been trying to get the word out for years that what the defence gets is extremely limited - so many people have argued "He had the best defence lawyer in Scotland" and "the jury heard all  of the evidence" - Innocents Betrayed is 140,000 words of proof that the defence was fighting with one hand behind its back and the jury heard only a fraction of the available evidence.

Smoked cannabis is detectable in the bloodstream very quickly  - less than 20 minutes - but it also breaks down quickly - within a couple of hours, so there is really only a very small timescale for Jodi to have smoked the joint.

We know there was a statement taken from YW, because she told police that Ferris intended to go to the police on July 1st and tell them he was on the path ... but something changed his mind. However, the statement wasn't in the defence and we have no idea whether or not it covered YW's movements on the day/evening. There is also a claim that YW corroborated Ferris's claim that he arrived at her flat at 10pm, but again, I haven't seen the actual statement.

The point you make about SK could, in fact, apply to many of the others connected to the case - the police could have chosen any one of them and built a case against them (in some instances, and even stronger case than they built against Luke). That's not to say any of them were involved - just that the police have the ability to construct cases that way and it's only pure luck on behalf of the others that they, rather than Luke, are not rotting in a prison cell today. Once someone's been targeted, any evidence pointing away from them is ignored, discounted or given a plausible explanation (like the ludicrous DNA transfer theories for SK's DNA).

There are still avenues of investigation that can be pursued, the big question is, will the authorities be willing to release samples for testing, or will they say everything's been lost, destroyed, or degraded to the point of uselessness? Even as they announce the launch of 30 year old "cold case reviews" for unsolved crimes. Do they really think we're all that stupid?

I wonder wht thy would of found hd othr huses been searched probely the murder weapon

[sandra L]

I don't know, nugnug. I'd have thought, with Ferris and Dickie at the murder scene at the claimed time of the murder, lying about the time to all and sundry before the claimed time of the murder was decided, taking almost a week to come forward and then claiming not to know what they were doing or where they were when their bike was seem propped at the wall without them would have warranted a bit of a closer look.

But, of course, it was 5 - 6 days before the police even got to them (thanks, in part, to the claimed helpful family advice not to go to the police earlier), so would there have been anything to find that might have shed light on where they were and whether they were telling the truth about seeing and hearing nothing?

The failure to search Jodi's house is baffling. How did anyone know she wasn't, perhaps, in contact with someone on the internet and had made plans to meet them? Her mother spoke about the family's use of chat rooms. There might have been crucial evidence in her schoolbag or bedroom that may have provided clues to people who wouldn't otherwise have come to the attention of the investigation - the point is, they didn't know and, because they didn't check, now we never will.

[nugnug]

I don't know, nugnug. I'd have thought, with Ferris and Dickie at the murder scene at the claimed time of the murder, lying about the time to all and sundry before the claimed time of the murder was decided, taking almost a week to come forward and then claiming not to know what they were doing or where they were when their bike was seem propped at the wall without them would have warranted a bit of a closer look.

But, of course, it was 5 - 6 days before the police even got to them (thanks, in part, to the claimed helpful family advice not to go to the police earlier), so would there have been anything to find that might have shed light on where they were and whether they were telling the truth about seeing and hearing nothing?

The failure to search Jodi's house is baffling. How did anyone know she wasn't, perhaps, in contact with someone on the internet and had made plans to meet them? Her mother spoke about the family's use of chat rooms. There might have been crucial evidence in her schoolbag or bedroom that may have provided clues to people who wouldn't otherwise have come to the attention of the investigation - the point is, they didn't know and, because they didn't check, now we never will.

its not just there alure to come forward but also when a description was given of the 2 lads on the bike ther must f been a fair few people who knew exactly who they were and thy didentcome forward ethere or encourage dickie and rris to come forward.

[sandra L]

According to the statements, there were at least 5 family members (other than Ferris and Dickie themselves) who knew, from early on July 1st (fully 4 days before the police appeal for the boys on the moped) that they were on the path. Given all the stories being carried back and forth amongst family members and friends between July 1st and July 4th, it would be surprising if others didn't know during that period.

Two school kids (teenagers) who spoke to Ferris as he made his way down Lady Path between 4.20pm - 4.25pm didn't come forward until after Ferris named them in his statements of July 6th onwards. There were, in my opinion, many people close to the investigation who knew who the boys on the moped were and who knew they were on the path late on the afternoon of June 30th and all of them said nothing. The question is, why?

Why was Ferris never questioned further about his claim that his Gran told him, on July 1st, not to go to the police? Why were AW and the other adult male said to be present when this advice was given, not questioned about it? Why did it never come up in court? Why did police accept Ferris's word that YW was lying about him saying he intended to go to the police on July 1st? It was at least possible he did tell YW that (since he was with her when they heard the news about Jodi) and changed his mind after the claimed conversation with his Gran?

[nugnug]

According to the statements, there were at least 5 family members (other than Ferris and Dickie themselves) who knew, from early on July 1st (fully 4 days before the police appeal for the boys on the moped) that they were on the path. Given all the stories being carried back and forth amongst family members and friends between July 1st and July 4th, it would be surprising if others didn't know during that period.

Two school kids (teenagers) who spoke to Ferris as he made his way down Lady Path between 4.20pm - 4.25pm didn't come forward until after Ferris named them in his statements of July 6th onwards. There were, in my opinion, many people close to the investigation who knew who the boys on the moped were and who knew they were on the path late on the afternoon of June 30th and all of them said nothing. The question is, why?

Why was Ferris never questioned further about his claim that his Gran told him, on July 1st, not to go to the police? Why were AW and the other adult male said to be present when this advice was given, not questioned about it? Why did it never come up in court? Why did police accept Ferris's word that YW was lying about him saying he intended to go to the police on July 1st? It was at least possible he did tell YW that (since he was with her when they heard the news about Jodi) and changed his mind after the claimed conversation with his Gran?

well daid dicki must of known it was them he said nothing and as jodis mum had cliamed ferris was at her house im ver suprised that she did not recognise his description.

[sandra L]

In fairness to Jodi's mum, the description wasn't issued until late afternoon on July 4th and again on the morning of July 5th. Dickie contacted the police on the afternoon of July 5th, so there wasn't really time for Judith to do anything.

David Dickie, however, not only knew his son was on the path, but he, himself was on the path later that evening and failed to come forward about his own presence there - as I understand it, his presence only became known after his son spoke to the police on July 5th.

So, descriptions aside, he knew Ferris and Dickie were on the path for 5 days and he knew, for the same time period that he was on the path that night, and failed to say anything.

The stories surrounding DD's presence on the path are mind blowing. He might have been home when Ferris and GD got back to the house, but he might have been walking the dogs (which meant he was in the woodland strip directly after the murder). But, according to other statements, he might have walked the dogs later in the evening - maybe 6 o'clock, maybe around 8 - 8.30pm. He did, definitely, walk the dogs, in the woodland strip on the afternoon/evening of June 30th, sometime after 5.15pm. He did, definitely, go through the V break in the wall with 8 dogs, it's just that nobody can remember exactly what time that happened, other than it was after 5.15pm.

A couple of other interesting connections. If he walked the dogs at 8.30pm, it's a tad surprising he didn't stumble across one James Falconer having his solo intimate moment, or on his way to do so, or on his way back, since JF claims to have been in the woodland strip, doing his thing, around 8.30 - 9pm.

If it was just after 5.15pm, it's surprising DD didn't stumble across the kids playing in the woodland strip, heard shouting and laughing with each other, between 5.10pm and 5.25pm. Or the dog walkers who reached the junction of the paths at around 5.15pm, who changed their minds about walking their dogs in the woodland strip and turned around and headed for home.

It was a busy area that evening, no doubt about it.

[nugnug]

In fairness to Jodi's mum, the description wasn't issued until late afternoon on July 4th and again on the morning of July 5th. Dickie contacted the police on the afternoon of July 5th, so there wasn't really time for Judith to do anything.

David Dickie, however, not only knew his son was on the path, but he, himself was on the path later that evening and failed to come forward about his own presence there - as I understand it, his presence only became known after his son spoke to the police on July 5th.

So, descriptions aside, he knew Ferris and Dickie were on the path for 5 days and he knew, for the same time period that he was on the path that night, and failed to say anything.

The stories surrounding DD's presence on the path are mind blowing. He might have been home when Ferris and GD got back to the house, but he might have been walking the dogs (which meant he was in the woodland strip directly after the murder). But, according to other statements, he might have walked the dogs later in the evening - maybe 6 o'clock, maybe around 8 - 8.30pm. He did, definitely, walk the dogs, in the woodland strip on the afternoon/evening of June 30th, sometime after 5.15pm. He did, definitely, go through the V break in the wall with 8 dogs, it's just that nobody can remember exactly what time that happened, other than it was after 5.15pm.

A couple of other interesting connections. If he walked the dogs at 8.30pm, it's a tad surprising he didn't stumble across one James Falconer having his solo intimate moment, or on his way to do so, or on his way back, since JF claims to have been in the woodland strip, doing his thing, around 8.30 - 9pm.

If it was just after 5.15pm, it's surprising DD didn't stumble across the kids playing in the woodland strip, heard shouting and laughing with each other, between 5.10pm and 5.25pm. Or the dog walkers who reached the junction of the paths at around 5.15pm, who changed their minds about walking their dogs in the woodland strip and turned around and headed for home.

It was a busy area that evening, no doubt about it.

well acording to jodis mum fesrris was at her house he was aprently in  places at once.

[sandra L]

Again, it's unbelievable that this wasn't checked out properly. Here's a guy who was very close to the crime scene at the exact claimed time of the attack, who failed to come forward, changed his appearance immediately afterwards and lied about the time he was at the V point and on the path.

Not only was none of that considered remotely worth a second glance, but his whereabouts in the lead up to the point where he and Dickie were seen on the moped is also unconfirmed to this day.

It's interesting, though, that he wasn't needed to provide an alibi for Dickie earlier in the afternoon- there were others who could do that. But he was needed to support an alibi for JoJ, since Judith's accounts were contradictory. But, if he left Judith's house at lunchtime (by 1.30pm at the latest), which is what Ferris and JoJ said (other witnesses said he was in Dickie's house well before 3pm), he wasn't in Judith's house all afternoon, and definitely not when the cancellation call to the doctor was made. But, according to Judith, the main reason for the cancellation call was that JoJ wanted to continue smoking cannabis in his room with Ferris, who was still in her house when she made the 3.25pm phone cancellation.

It's clearly a myth that those closest to the victim come under the greatest scrutiny - in this case, their accounts were pretty much accepted at face value.

[nugnug]

Again, it's unbelievable that this wasn't checked out properly. Here's a guy who was very close to the crime scene at the exact claimed time of the attack, who failed to come forward, changed his appearance immediately afterwards and lied about the time he was at the V point and on the path.

Not only was none of that considered remotely worth a second glance, but his whereabouts in the lead up to the point where he and Dickie were seen on the moped is also unconfirmed to this day.

It's interesting, though, that he wasn't needed to provide an alibi for Dickie earlier in the afternoon- there were others who could do that. But he was needed to support an alibi for JoJ, since Judith's accounts were contradictory. But, if he left Judith's house at lunchtime (by 1.30pm at the latest), which is what Ferris and JoJ said (other witnesses said he was in Dickie's house well before 3pm), he wasn't in Judith's house all afternoon, and definitely not when the cancellation call to the doctor was made. But, according to Judith, the main reason for the cancellation call was that JoJ wanted to continue smoking cannabis in his room with Ferris, who was still in her house when she made the 3.25pm phone cancellation.

It's clearly a myth that those closest to the victim come under the greatest scrutiny - in this case, their accounts were pretty much accepted at face value.

what ive allways wondered is weather th whole thing was a lie weather he actully was with jodis brother  as jodis mother cliamed and for some reason him and dickie to protect somebody else.


when you think about it it would be rather daft for judi jones to cliam he was at her house when she knew full well there was ee witness evdence that put him somwhere else.

that leads me to think he must of been at her house and somone else was on the bike.

[nugnug]

Sandra the boys  ferrissmentioned would we have hard of them before.

in any other capacity.

[sandra L]

It wasn't until several days into the investigation that the story about Ferris and Joseph being at Judith's house appeared, so there was time for everyone to check with each other what they thought they were doing that day.

One bit that I've never been able to make sense of is an account by Alice Walker. According to her, Janine and Kelly Alice went out for a walk around 10 o'clock (Janine called her on her mobile to ask if it was OK to cook some stuff in the fridge for breakfast). Joseph and Ferris didn't want food and left  from Alice's house "about 11 o'clock."

Alice then said she went to Judith's house at "about 12 o'clock", still on her walk, because she needed to use the toilet. She made no mention of Joseph or Ferris being there and Judith never mentioned her mother stopping by. But what made Alice think there would be anybody home? Judith would ordinarily have been working and there was no car in the drive (because Alan Ovens had taken it to work).

So 67 year old Alice took a 2 hour walk that brought her back to Judith's house (half a mile from her own home) and Joseph and Ferris, who set off from the same place (Alice's house) an hour later, for Judith's (a half hour walk) also took 2 hours to get there.

Alice was never asked to reconstruct her walk that morning, or even asked where she went - another statement seemed to imply that she and a friend would take a stroll around the perimeter of the park in the mornings when the weather was nice - that's not a 2 hour walk! I always wondered where this part of the story came from.

Nugnug, I'm not sure what boys Ferris mentioned that you asked about? There was the teenage couple on the path when he left on the moped to pick up Dickie from the jobcentre (boy and girl) - we'd never have heard of them because they were just a young couple walking along Lady Path around 4.30pm and appear to have no other involvement whatsoever. The kids playing in the woodland strip were mentioned by another witness - the kids were traced and questioned, but said they saw and heard nothing (even though they, too, were there at the claimed time of the murder).

Either Ferris or Dickie (I can't remember which one, now) said there was a yellow pushbike against the railings at the top of the path (Easthouse end) - nothing was ever done with that (presumably because it couldn't be connected with Luke)- I can't think of anyone else Ferris mentioned, apart from the male relative in Alice's house who allegedly told him not to go to the police (I know who he is, but he's never been publicly named in relation to the case).

[nugnug]

sorry the 2 teenage school kids ferris mentioned in his statement.

[Bullseye]

There were a few reports of Luke with knifes and threatening someone with a knife also. Was this just media reports or did anyone take the stand to confirm this?

The police went to America to get a murderer profile. Was this ever released? Did the defence team get s copy?