Author Topic: Sheila's first rifle load:  (Read 2923 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2019, 11:46:AM »
Lookout has a right to support Jeremy. Obviously her reason of 'a gut feeling' in 1985 could not have been used at trial or the appeals.

A future CCRC application will be based on evidence. However I believe the 2012 CCRC dismissal was the end of the line.

There was a 10 year gap between the last two CCRC applications. There is virtually no chance there will be new evidence strong enough to submit a new application.


I guess we must be thankful that the verdict didn't rely upon such 'evidence' as witnesses knowing someone who had the same problem as Sheila and maintaining they knew what Sheila was thinking, OR a witness who believed he must be innocent because he was adopted and adopted children would be too grateful to murder the family who adopted them.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2019, 12:13:PM »

I guess we must be thankful that the verdict didn't rely upon such 'evidence' as witnesses knowing someone who had the same problem as Sheila and maintaining they knew what Sheila was thinking, OR a witness who believed he must be innocent because he was adopted and adopted children would be too grateful to murder the family who adopted them.

Gut feelings could be wrong, or people can change them. 

Lookout's kept her gut feeling since 1985 & supports the industrial frame.  She has kept a lower profile than Mike which Jeremy will appreciate. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 12:17:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2019, 12:36:PM »
Bamber was convicted in 1986. 

His first appellate hearing was 1988, the second was 1989.

There was an inquiry into the original investigation completed by the Essex Police by the City of London Police in 1991. A judicial review of the Home Office resulted in expert evidence being disclosed to the defence in 1994.

The Criminal Cases Review Commission referred the case back to the Court of Appeal in 2001, there was a two week hearing in 2002.

A further CCRC application was made in 2004, another in 2009 and finally in 2012.

The refusal of the CCRC to refer the matter to the Court of Appeal in 2012 was subject to a judicial review which was heard in the High Court.

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The 2012 CCRC dismissal brought to a conclusion the legal systems longest running case according to several articles.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 12:38:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2019, 01:42:PM »

I guess we must be thankful that the verdict didn't rely upon such 'evidence' as witnesses knowing someone who had the same problem as Sheila and maintaining they knew what Sheila was thinking, OR a witness who believed he must be innocent because he was adopted and adopted children would be too grateful to murder the family who adopted them.




Not forgetting that Stan Jones also had a " gut-feeling that he was guilty and from that, he led the way !!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2019, 01:57:PM »



Not forgetting that Stan Jones also had a " gut-feeling that he was guilty and from that, he led the way !!

Excdpt he was coming from an informed position.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2019, 02:24:PM »
Excdpt he was coming from an informed position.




Such as ? He was no top brass material.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2019, 02:43:PM »



Such as ? He was no top brass material.

He was a experienced police officer whereas you weren’t.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2019, 02:56:PM »



Not forgetting that Stan Jones also had a " gut-feeling that he was guilty and from that, he led the way !!


Gut feelings fall into either one of two camps, ie, guilty or innocent. Whatever lays behind the gut feeling, only one is going to be right. My friend's late husband's gut feeling, as a police officer of many years standing, was that Jeremy was guilty, but, as with all gut feelings,he COULD have been wrong.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2019, 03:03:PM »



Such as ? He was no top brass material.


Neither are you (we) but you (we) still have gut feelings.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2019, 03:13:PM »

Neither are you (we) but you (we) still have gut feelings.

I didn’t have a ‘gut feeling’ in 1985 and have changed my initial opinion on the case after reading about it and discussing it with others and Bamber himself. No gut feeling here - only after a dodgy curry!!  ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2019, 03:38:PM »
He was a experienced police officer whereas you weren’t.





There have been too many " experienced police officers " who've made too many mistakes in the past. Not good enough is it ? There would have been hundreds hanged if it was still in force.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2019, 03:44:PM »
For the handful who were sadly, wrongly hanged there certainly have been many more which have been MOJ's over the years for all the technology etc.
There shouldn't be such things as MOJ's if investigations were carried out properly and appropriately.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2019, 03:49:PM »




There have been too many " experienced police officers " who've made too many mistakes in the past. Not good enough is it ? There would have been hundreds hanged if it was still in force.


Bit ironic, that, for someone who believes in the death penalty. Yes, SOME mistakes have been made. Probably more in the past than now. It's as "not good enough" now as it was then, however, if it's perfection you're looking for, you'll have to wait and see what you find in the next world because you'll certainly not find it in this one.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2019, 03:49:PM »




There have been too many " experienced police officers " who've made too many mistakes in the past. Not good enough is it ? There would have been hundreds hanged if it was still in force.

You believe in the death penalty! And who are the hundreds?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's first rifle load:
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2019, 03:53:PM »
For the handful who were sadly, wrongly hanged there certainly have been many more which have been MOJ's over the years for all the technology etc.
There shouldn't be such things as MOJ's if investigations were carried out properly and appropriately.


That's a very sweeping statement, based, I believe, in the desire for perfection. Whilst we live in a world in which people lie, cheat, defraud, embezzle, abuse, rape and murder, we're unlikely to find it.