Author Topic: Maurice Drake contradiction  (Read 558 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 10:41:AM »
Lots of different possibilities for the order Bamber took.

He may have fired 8 bullets into the twins straight away. Then re loaded the rifle to 9 bullets prior to entering the main bedroom.

He may have shot June last with two shots,  after realising she was also still breathing.

There may have been two re loads at the end. The first was for one bullet for Sheila. He then reloaded again for 3 bullets - for Sheila's 2nd shot & June's 6th & 7th.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2019, 11:44:AM »
Lots of different possibilities for the order Bamber took.

He may have fired 8 bullets into the twins straight away. Then re loaded the rifle to 9 bullets prior to entering the main bedroom.

He may have shot June last with two shots,  after realising she was also still breathing.

There may have been two re loads at the end. The first was for one bullet for Sheila. He then reloaded again for 3 bullets - for Sheila's 2nd shot & June's 6th & 7th.

The last two are not possible.

Had June been alive for a period of time after she fell on the floor. We would expect to see a lot more blood in that area. Once you are dead your blood pressure and circulation stops and it wont spurt out as much.

The bloodstains on Sheila show she was sitting up while both shots were fired. Hence it must have happened quickly. If she was shot once and then a killer reloads she would in the mean time have covered her neck with her hands and coughed up blood, creating a mess and smearing blood everywhere.

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2019, 12:04:PM »
Research is still on-going to this day on the psychological profile of a family annihilator which still remains to be a very complex one as there are no warning signs particularly as the Bamber family hadn't displayed anything untoward, keeping family problems and their lives in general very private thus adding to the shock of their sudden deaths.

This profile is very different to that of a serial killer/mass murderer or even a spree killer in that it proves difficult to predict and almost impossible to stop so therefore will continue to happen.

Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2019, 12:08:PM »
The last two are not possible.

Had June been alive for a period of time after she fell on the floor. We would expect to see a lot more blood in that area. Once you are dead your blood pressure and circulation stops and it wont spurt out as much.

The bloodstains on Sheila show she was sitting up while both shots were fired. Hence it must have happened quickly. If she was shot once and then a killer reloads she would in the mean time have covered her neck with her hands and coughed up blood, creating a mess and smearing blood everywhere.

Alive or dead, June was on the floor for several minutes before Bamber's 6th & 7th shots into her.

Bamber was preoccupied with Nevill in the kitchen. Having the fight, re loading & shooting him again, putting him onto the coal scuttle & burning his back.

He may have automatically shot June twice more after entering the bedroom again & seeing she had moved from the bed, assuming she was still alive. With Nevill gone & June shot 5 times, he had time to make June's 6th & 7th shots much more lethal.

Sheila was knocked out but still breathing after the first shot. Bamber had no idea how long she would stay alive or when the police would force entry.  So with no resistance from Sheila,  made a more successful second shot.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 12:10:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2019, 12:31:PM »
Alive or dead, June was on the floor for several minutes before Bamber's 6th & 7th shots into her.

Bamber was preoccupied with Nevill in the kitchen. Having the fight, re loading & shooting him again, putting him onto the coal scuttle & burning his back.

He may have automatically shot June twice more after entering the bedroom again & seeing she had moved from the bed, assuming she was still alive. With Nevill gone & June shot 5 times, he had time to make June's 6th & 7th shots much more lethal.

Sheila was knocked out but still breathing after the first shot. Bamber had no idea how long she would stay alive or when the police would force entry.  So with no resistance from Sheila,  made a more successful second shot.

So while Jeremy places Nevil by the AGA, removes the silencer, he then heats up the rifle barrel on the AGA to poke Nevils back.  What is Sheila doing while all this takes place? Is she an accomplice?

How could he move Nevil to the AGA when the scratch marks you believe are authentic, indicate he died in that area?  Why re-attach the silencer when there is only one other adult alive at the scene?

Why go through all this trouble of heating the gun to see if Nevill is still alive when you can just make sure he is dead with a headshot?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 12:34:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2019, 12:59:PM »
So while Jeremy places Nevil by the AGA, removes the silencer, he then heats up the rifle barrel on the AGA to poke Nevils back.  What is Sheila doing while all this takes place? Is she an accomplice?

How could he move Nevil to the AGA when the scratch marks you believe are authentic, indicate he died in that area?  Why re-attach the silencer when there is only one other adult alive at the scene?

Why go through all this trouble of heating the gun to see if Nevill is still alive when you can just make sure he is dead with a headshot?

Sheila was asleep, as people are at that time. Behind walls and closed doors. And under sedation. There was no noise when Bamber shot the twins, June & Nevill upstairs. They were sleeping & Bamber used a silencer. The kitchen fight was brutal but over quickly, downstairs in a big house.

Thinking again Bamber may have lifted Nevill onto the coal scuttle and burned him after returning upstairs & his final upstairs shots into June & Sheila. Obviously he fought & shot Nevill another 4 times before returning upstairs.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 01:01:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2019, 01:10:PM »
Of course there is a chance Sheila woke up mid massacre.

There was nothing she could do. By the time she would have got out of bed, June & the twins had been shot and were dead/immobilised & Nevill was downstairs, dead, or about to be dead.

Bamber was returning back upstairs with the rifle before Sheila could digest what was happening.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2019, 01:16:PM »
Sheila was asleep, as people are at that time. Behind walls and closed doors. And under sedation. There was no noise when Bamber shot the twins, June & Nevill upstairs. They were sleeping & Bamber used a silencer. The kitchen fight was brutal but over quickly, downstairs in a big house.

Thinking again Bamber may have lifted Nevill onto the coal scuttle and burned him after returning upstairs & his final upstairs shots into June & Sheila. Obviously he fought & shot Nevill another 4 times before returning upstairs.

She was not sedated as you already know. How else did she get out of bed and to the main bedroom? How did she make her way upstairs to bed in the first place if she was "sedated". How was she seen out and about the very day before if she was "sedated" as you claim?  ???

Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2019, 01:23:PM »
She was not sedated as you already know. How else did she get out of bed and to the main bedroom? How did she make her way upstairs to bed in the first place if she was "sedated". How was she seen out and about the very day before if she was "sedated" as you claim?  ???

148. Sheila Caffell, probably in a sedated state from her medication, was also shot in the bedroom.

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You know her medication zonked her out.

'How did she make her way upstairs to bed'? Walked, I guess. Her medication did not stop her walking. It would have helped her have a good nights sleep. Besides which you would expect her to be in a deep sleep at 1am. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 01:27:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2019, 01:44:PM »
Did the prosecution ever argue that Sheila was too sedated to carry out the crime? No. Because there is no basis for such a claim.

Sheila was actually under medicated at the time. It has been alleged on here that her Haldol dose was too high to permit her commit the crime but that all went south when it became apparent that high Haldol doses can trigger serious violence.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2019, 03:18:PM »
Did the prosecution ever argue that Sheila was too sedated to carry out the crime? No. Because there is no basis for such a claim.

Sheila was actually under medicated at the time. It has been alleged on here that her Haldol dose was too high to permit her commit the crime but that all went south when it became apparent that high Haldol doses can trigger serious violence.

Sheila had 15 ng/mL of haloperidol in her blood at the time of her death.



According to a 1992 study "Haloperidol Blood Levels and Clinical Effects" They consider Haloperidol blood levels as follows -

low (2 to 13 ng/mL), medium (13.1 to 24 ng/mL), or high (24.1 to 35 ng/mL).

According to a 1980s study, heavy sedation is associated with levels in excess of 50ng/mL


Offline Jane

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2019, 07:26:PM »
Did the prosecution ever argue that Sheila was too sedated to carry out the crime? No. Because there is no basis for such a claim.

Sheila was actually under medicated at the time. It has been alleged on here that her Haldol dose was too high to permit her commit the crime but that all went south when it became apparent that high Haldol doses can trigger serious violence.


Was it ever the prosecution's plan to pitch brother against sister.? I don't think the plan was to claim Sheila couldn't have done it because................ I don't believe It's "because there is no basis for such a claim" that it was omitted. Her medication -and the effects it may or not have had on her- continues to be a contentious issue. The effect it 'can' have not necessarily being the effects it DOES have.

Offline David1819

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2019, 08:52:PM »

Was it ever the prosecution's plan to pitch brother against sister.? I don't think the plan was to claim Sheila couldn't have done it because................ I don't believe It's "because there is no basis for such a claim" that it was omitted. Her medication -and the effects it may or not have had on her- continues to be a contentious issue. The effect it 'can' have not necessarily being the effects it DOES have.

The judges summing up seems to indicate that -

"On the facts of this case, the killer was either Sheila or Jeremy Bamber. And therefore it follows that if you are sure that Sheila did not carry out the killings, it also follows that you must be sure the defendant did so”

Offline Caroline

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2019, 09:41:PM »
She was not sedated as you already know. How else did she get out of bed and to the main bedroom? How did she make her way upstairs to bed in the first place if she was "sedated". How was she seen out and about the very day before if she was "sedated" as you claim?  ???

There are levels of sedation and haloperidol is used for this purpose BUT the patient still needs to be able to function to a basic level. You have no idea what the effects of this drug are and you're frankly sounding desperate.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Maurice Drake contradiction
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2019, 09:42:AM »
Not sure who would have woken Sheila -

Bamber. A silent WHF entry & shots with the silencer attached. 

The twins. Shot while asleep.

June. Shot while asleep.

Nevill. Shot in the bedroom and went straight downstairs.

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There is a slim chance the kitchen fight noise travelled upatairs through shut doors & walls and woke a sleeping Sheila. If that motivated her enough to get out of bed, it would not be long before Bamber returned upstairs.

Bamber had just had a brutal fight with Nevill. An awake Sheila was not going to stand in his way.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.