Author Topic: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.  (Read 3777 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2021, 05:35:PM »
I don’t think Salmond is trying to incriminate himself QC, he has more evidence that he couldn’t produce because of legality, that probably shows there was a conspiracy against him?

On the one hand you’ve got the women accusers who were let down by the Government (Sturgeon and her cronies) by the way they sought to intervene for Salmond and then do a complete U turn when they realised this was their chance to put Salmond to bed, he was the one man who posed the biggest threat to Sturgeon and her leadership.  So the conspiracy was set up to add more fuel to the fire, irrespective of the women who had come forward it was get Salmond at all costs.  Now Salmond could have been guilty of some off these charges we will never know, but because Sturgeon and her cronies used the women accusers like human shields this then  ruined what could have been a fair trial by getting involved, Salmond won and he won against the Government as well.

He know has the upper ground and he wants to destroy what set out to to destroy him.  So he’s exposing the sleaze and inner corruption within the SNP leadership.  He’s exposing what the Leadership and Crown did to him and at the same time this shows that the women accusers were let down as well.  Salmond isn’t worried about that, because he’s been found not guilty in a court of Law, but in a subtle way he’s showing that the Scottish Government hadn’t the accusers best interest at heart, it’s showing the Scottish government lacks integrity and is unfit for purpose and all it was bothered about was to get Salmond at all costs for other reasons.
No I don't accept any of this. It's true that razor-sharp SNP politicians are thin on the ground and Scottish independence lies to a great extent on Nicola Sturgeon's performance, but Alex Salmond was a busted flush after he lost the referendum in 2014. He wasn't too proud to take a seat in the British House of Commons, nor it seems does he have any shame after the revelations about his private life or what he has done to his accusers, guilty in a court of law or not. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/salmond-to-launch-legal-action-against-scotlands-top-civil-servant/ar-BB1eVdvK?ocid=msedgntp
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 05:36:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2021, 05:55:PM »
No I don't accept any of this. It's true that razor-sharp SNP politicians are thin on the ground and Scottish independence lies to a great extent on Nicola Sturgeon's performance, but Alex Salmond was a busted flush after he lost the referendum in 2014. He wasn't too proud to take a seat in the British House of Commons, nor it seems does he have any shame after the revelations about his private life or what he has done to his accusers, guilty in a court of law or not. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/salmond-to-launch-legal-action-against-scotlands-top-civil-servant/ar-BB1eVdvK?ocid=msedgntp
Well it’s basically what the Committee have said?  I agree his accusers have suffered, but justice wasn’t served because the interference of Sturgeon and do you know what Steve, they knew about it years back and did absolutely nothing.

Alex Salmond slams the inquiries that cleared Nicola Sturgeon over 'conspiracy' against him and launches NEW legal action against the Scottish Government


He’s going after them again.

Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #152 on: March 24, 2021, 06:24:PM »
Well it’s basically what the Committee have said?  I agree his accusers have suffered, but justice wasn’t served because the interference of Sturgeon and do you know what Steve, they knew about it years back and did absolutely nothing.

Alex Salmond slams the inquiries that cleared Nicola Sturgeon over 'conspiracy' against him and launches NEW legal action against the Scottish Government


He’s going after them again.
Where was the help for these women when they needed it?  Sturgeon was deputy to Salmond.

Both complainants told how a 'blind eye' was turned to inappropriate behaviour at the time of the alleged incidents.

And they dismissed the complaints process as 'laughable', saying: 'Making complaints was simply not the done thing.'


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2021, 10:05:PM »
Where was the help for these women when they needed it?  Sturgeon was deputy to Salmond.

Both complainants told how a 'blind eye' was turned to inappropriate behaviour at the time of the alleged incidents.

And they dismissed the complaints process as 'laughable', saying: 'Making complaints was simply not the done thing.'
On the other hand: why should Nicola Sturgeon clean up Alex Salmond's mess when he wanted to get his leg over with nine women when he was alone with them at Holyrood.

Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #154 on: March 25, 2021, 08:59:AM »
On the other hand: why should Nicola Sturgeon clean up Alex Salmond's mess when he wanted to get his leg over with nine women when he was alone with them at Holyrood.
Im sorry Steve, turning a blind eye to something as bad as that, makes you part of it, if not worse, we’re talking about not one but several women who wanted and needed help,  these women were disregarded and then used when the shit hit the fan and then disregarded again.   I’m no fan of Salmond and never have been, but this episode if anything else has, exposed the sleaze and corrupt side of the SNP and in particular Sturgeon and her husband and top civil Servant Leslie Evans.

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #155 on: March 25, 2021, 09:34:AM »
Im sorry Steve, turning a blind eye to something as bad as that, makes you part of it, if not worse, we’re talking about not one but several women who wanted and needed help,  these women were disregarded and then used when the shit hit the fan and then disregarded again.   I’m no fan of Salmond and never have been, but this episode if anything else has, exposed the sleaze and corrupt side of the SNP and in particular Sturgeon and her husband and top civil Servant Leslie Evans.

Sorry, I still don't get it.  Even if all this is true, why is Alex Salmond complaining about it?  You're going to have to explain it to me.  He is clearly incriminating himself by dragging the matter on.

Also, what evidence is there that Nicola Sturgeon knew of concerns about Alex Salmond's conduct?  Is it just being assumed that because they were both in the SNP and she was Salmond's deputy, she must have known?  If so, why shouldn't we also say that SNP, Labour and Tory MSPs, and civil servants, should have known?  What about Salmond's wife?  She's close to him and she must know at least some of the people who work with him.  Why shouldn't she know?

And even if Sturgeon did know, what was she supposed to do about it?  I don't like this woman, but I genuinely don't understand the logic of holding her to account for somebody else's alleged misdeeds where there is an identifiable victim.  Surely the responsibility is on the victim to make the complaint, and then the appropriate authority - whether the Scottish Government or Devolved Civil Service as employer, or the police, or both - proceeds with an investigation?  Why are other people dragged into it and blamed?  That seems unjust to me.  Of course, if it is clear somebody is being harmed, that is another matter, but the alleged conduct was relatively trivial.

Also, and related to that point, why would Alex Salmond want to take court action to stop an investigation, if the complaints were well-founded in the first place?  What have the victims lost?  Or if the allegations were well-founded and the investigation was stopped for due process reasons, how is Nicola Sturgeon responsible for this?  It's a contradiction.

I think it would help people like me understand all this if people put aside their biases and approached the matter a bit more objectively.  In plain language, what is this actually about?  What is being alleged and why?  What is the evidence?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 09:37:AM by QCChevalier »

Online ngb1066

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #156 on: March 25, 2021, 10:32:AM »
On the other hand: why should Nicola Sturgeon clean up Alex Salmond's mess when he wanted to get his leg over with nine women when he was alone with them at Holyrood.

That is utter rubbish.  You have obviously not even bothered to read the press reports about what the allegations in fact were.  There was no suggestion that he "wanted to get his leg over with nine women when he was alone with them at Holyrood".  That is wrong in several ways and therefore completely discredits your argument.


Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #157 on: March 25, 2021, 10:47:AM »
That is utter rubbish.  You have obviously not even bothered to read the press reports about what the allegations in fact were.  There was no suggestion that he "wanted to get his leg over with nine women when he was alone with them at Holyrood".  That is wrong in several ways and therefore completely discredits your argument.
True, if Steve accepts this then it shows the utter disgrace of the party.  I’ve tried to explain my opinion in the best way I could, I don’t think I’m too far off the truth NGB and that’s not going into the subtle law change in 2017. 

NICOLA Sturgeon played a key role in framing the Scottish Government harassment policy that was used against Alex Salmond, official documents have revealed.

Material sent to the Holyrood inquiry into the Salmond affair shows the First Minister and her aides ensured the policy would apply to “former ministers” as well as serving ones.

Ms Sturgeon told her top official  she “wanted to make clear” the policy was not “constrained by the passage of time” and should include the “particular aspect” of former ministers.


Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #158 on: March 25, 2021, 01:41:PM »
Sorry, I still don't get it.  Even if all this is true, why is Alex Salmond complaining about it?  You're going to have to explain it to me.  He is clearly incriminating himself by dragging the matter on.

Also, what evidence is there that Nicola Sturgeon knew of concerns about Alex Salmond's conduct?  Is it just being assumed that because they were both in the SNP and she was Salmond's deputy, she must have known?  If so, why shouldn't we also say that SNP, Labour and Tory MSPs, and civil servants, should have known?  What about Salmond's wife?  She's close to him and she must know at least some of the people who work with him.  Why shouldn't she know?

And even if Sturgeon did know, what was she supposed to do about it?  I don't like this woman, but I genuinely don't understand the logic of holding her to account for somebody else's alleged misdeeds where there is an identifiable victim.  Surely the responsibility is on the victim to make the complaint, and then the appropriate authority - whether the Scottish Government or Devolved Civil Service as employer, or the police, or both - proceeds with an investigation?  Why are other people dragged into it and blamed?  That seems unjust to me.  Of course, if it is clear somebody is being harmed, that is another matter, but the alleged conduct was relatively trivial.

Also, and related to that point, why would Alex Salmond want to take court action to stop an investigation, if the complaints were well-founded in the first place?  What have the victims lost?  Or if the allegations were well-founded and the investigation was stopped for due process reasons, how is Nicola Sturgeon responsible for this?  It's a contradiction.

I think it would help people like me understand all this if people put aside their biases and approached the matter a bit more objectively.  In plain language, what is this actually about?  What is being alleged and why?  What is the evidence?
Maybe Salmond wants to get his political career back on track and he wants to put the record straight, even if you’ve been found not guilty in a court of Law mud sticks, by taking on the Government and winning  shows there was a witch-hunt against him  and according to the findings of the Committee shows there clearly was in my opinion.

It’s not the rights or wrongs of taking someone to court, it’s the way it’s done or underhand way it’s done, whether we like it or not she’s been found guilty of misleading Parliament, A majority of MSPs on the committee said there was clear evidence she had misled the committee over whether she told Salmond she would intervene in a Scottish government harassment inquiry on his behalf, and that the “fundamental contradiction” in her evidence amounted to a potential breach of the ministerial code.


Like I said I’m know fan of his, he’s a good talker and probably has some good principles, but the breaking up of the UK is another thing and I don’t think the Scottish people are being told the truth, it’s my opinion that’s all.

Steve is totally wrong, because again the Committee after listening to evidence and witnesses put forward The committee finds it hard to believe that the first minister had no knowledge of any concerns about inappropriate behaviour on the part of Mr Salmond prior to November 2017. If she did have such knowledge, then she should have acted upon it. If she did have such knowledge, then she has misled the committee.

You have to acknowledge that this inquiry wasn’t set up by Salmond, it was set up by Parliament to investigate these claims, all Salmond is doing is answering questions, you say he’s incriminating himself, I don’t think he has,  he’s exposed how corrupt the leadership of the SNP in my eye.

At the end of the day QC, NICOLA Sturgeon misled parliament, a Holyrood inquiry into the Alex Salmond affair has concluded, while her Government's handling of harassment complaints was "seriously flawed".

Offline Roch

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2021, 03:12:PM »
Sorry, couldn't help it..


Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #160 on: March 25, 2021, 05:03:PM »
Sorry, couldn't help it..

Thanks Roch, and a very good contribution.  I think Scots should be proud of having such a serious, credible figure as their First Minister.  It really raises Scotland in the eyes of world.

However, I have to say, I don't condone this sort of activity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWsJr7EdalM

I take the, perhaps, old-fashioned view that people should not be dodging fares, especially high-profile politicians.  I know that Scots are famed for their frugality, but it's a bit desperate for the First Minister to pretend to be 12. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 05:04:PM by QCChevalier »

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #161 on: March 25, 2021, 05:07:PM »
Steve is totally wrong, because again the Committee after listening to evidence and witnesses put forward The committee finds it hard to believe that the first minister had no knowledge of any concerns about inappropriate behaviour on the part of Mr Salmond prior to November 2017. If she did have such knowledge, then she should have acted upon it. If she did have such knowledge, then she has misled the committee.

Why?  And what should she have done?

Offline Real Justice

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #162 on: March 25, 2021, 05:31:PM »
Why?  And what should she have done?
Well what would you expect her to have done and what would any Law abiding citizen expect a future leader to do, she was a past Solicitor who held a LLB (Hons) and Diploma in Legal Practice and she was deputy First Minister, I would have hoped she wouldn’t turn a blind eye like she probably did. I honestly don’t think I can explain it any better QC, one can read into it whatever they like but it’s as plain as day for me.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 05:34:PM by Real Justice »

Offline Roch

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #163 on: March 25, 2021, 05:31:PM »
Thanks Roch, and a very good contribution.  I think Scots should be proud of having such a serious, credible figure as their First Minister.  It really raises Scotland in the eyes of world.

However, I have to say, I don't condone this sort of activity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWsJr7EdalM

I take the, perhaps, old-fashioned view that people should not be dodging fares, especially high-profile politicians.  I know that Scots are famed for their frugality, but it's a bit desperate for the First Minister to pretend to be 12.

Enjoyed that.  8)

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Alex Salmond Rape Charge.
« Reply #164 on: March 25, 2021, 06:37:PM »
Well what would you expect her to have done and what would any Law abiding citizen expect a future leader to do, she was a past Solicitor who held a LLB (Hons) and Diploma in Legal Practice and she was deputy First Minister, I would have hoped she wouldn’t turn a blind eye like she probably did. I honestly don’t think I can explain it any better QC, one can read into it whatever they like but it’s as plain as day for me.

Well it depends.  You may think you are being plain, but I don't think you are.  You aren't actually explaining to me what her duties are.  She could have been a Nobel Prize winner for all I care, it doesn't follow she's under a duty to report certain things.  She may be, though, and if she is, then what is the duty and how does it arise and in what circumstances?  Being a law-abiding citizen and holding a university degree doesn't quite cut it for me.  I assume her status as a solicitor is comparable to that of a solicitor in England & Wales, in that she is an officer of the court if still on the Roll, but that doesn't mean she has to report people under these circumstances.

There's also the prior question of what we're assuming Nicola Sturgeon should have known.  I raised this before and you didn't answer.  Is she supposed to have had concerns about his behaviour, or known of the concerns of others, or known of allegations, or what?

It's also in the nature of this sort of behaviour that it is open to interpretation.  First, it's not been established in any neutral forum that Alex Salmond actually behaved in a criminal way, or even in a discriminatory or harassing way.  He may have done certain unseemly and inappropriate things, like touching a woman's leg or making inappropriate remarks or whatever, but that's not necessarily in itself criminal or harassing, even when it is repeated with different people.  It may seem obvious that it is, but it isn't.

He may have touched a woman, for instance, because he liked her and wanted sex with her.  The state, even in Scotland, does not quite yet micro-regulate sexual relations, so he is free to do this.  She is equally free to refuse and/or slap his face and/or pour beer over him and/or if she likes, complain - normal things that have happened since pubs and offices were first invented.

Did any of these women complain promptly?  If someone did, then whether Nicola Sturgeon knows or not seems irrelevant.  Since there was a complaint, the question of Nicola Sturgeon's cognisance is a nugatory point.  If there was no complaint, how is that the responsibility of Nicola Sturgeon in particular to initiate one or remember incidents of behaviour that are open to interpretation?  Wouldn't she be lying?  And couldn't she then be accused of going after Alex Salmond? 

If there is a statutory duty on an employer in these circumstances, then I should think it rests with the Devolved Civil Service, assuming these women were civil servants; or if they were SNP officials, then the complaints should have gone through whatever are the personnel channels of the SNP - normally paid officials working for the party chairman, which is how most political parties work in the UK.  I doubt an elected SNP politician would deal with such matters, for a number of good reasons.  Their role is political, not administrative.  You're not seriously suggesting that complaints should have gone to one of Salmond's political colleagues?

I'm afraid I think both the allegations against Salmond and against Sturgeon appear to be exaggerated nonsense.  I'm sure Nicola Sturgeon had it in for Alex Salmond and Alex Salmond is duly obliging us by demonstrating that he has it in for Nicola Sturgeon, risking his own liberty and reputation in the process when he should be thanking his lucky stars and keeping his mouth shut.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 06:42:PM by QCChevalier »