Author Topic: juilan assange rape chardge.  (Read 626 times)

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Online nugnug

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2019, 05:33:PM »
icant blame anybody for not wanting to face trail bya single judge in a secret court.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2019, 07:43:PM »
icant blame anybody for not wanting to face trail bya single judge in a secret court.
There would be some other excuse even if it were a jury trial.

Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2019, 10:46:PM »
There would be some other excuse even if it were a jury trial.
    Have you considered the possibility that what you call "excuses" might be legitimate concerns.
     When JA first entered the Ecuadorian Embassy his excuse (as you would call it) or legitimate concern (as even his critics at the time are now being forced to admit) was that the US had in place a secret Grand Jury and that charges for Assange publishing US war crime secrets would be laid as soon as he stepped foot on Swedish soil.
     I am aware that your knowledge of Swedish extradition arrangements with the US is probably limited but suffice to say that extradition from Sweden would have been less troublesome than from the UK.
     At the time Assange and those who support his freedom of expression and speech were labelled as "conspiracy theorists" for believing that the US had a secret Grand Jury in place to charge Assange with espionage. The sexual allegations were used to label supporters as "rape apologists". It should by now be apparent, to even the most dim witted, that the reason for Assange's asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy was because of legitimate concerns about torture and trumped up charges in the US.
    Events have surely shown that the whole Assange saga is a chilling attempt to silence free speech. You must be one of the last people still drinking the kool aid on this one.
    Are you aware of Chelsea Manning's current predicament and the reasons for this. Inform yourself before commenting further, Steve. Supporting the persecution of Assange puts you on the side of war mongers, war criminals and their apologists.
     

Online nugnug

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 06:24:PM »
well sweden hadent acully chared him with rape they only wanted him for qustioning they later did qustion him in the embasy and droped the chardges but now for some reson want to re oprn them dispite having no knew evdence.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 10:58:PM »
    Have you considered the possibility that what you call "excuses" might be legitimate concerns.
     When JA first entered the Ecuadorian Embassy his excuse (as you would call it) or legitimate concern (as even his critics at the time are now being forced to admit) was that the US had in place a secret Grand Jury and that charges for Assange publishing US war crime secrets would be laid as soon as he stepped foot on Swedish soil.
     I am aware that your knowledge of Swedish extradition arrangements with the US is probably limited but suffice to say that extradition from Sweden would have been less troublesome than from the UK.
     At the time Assange and those who support his freedom of expression and speech were labelled as "conspiracy theorists" for believing that the US had a secret Grand Jury in place to charge Assange with espionage. The sexual allegations were used to label supporters as "rape apologists". It should by now be apparent, to even the most dim witted, that the reason for Assange's asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy was because of legitimate concerns about torture and trumped up charges in the US.
    Events have surely shown that the whole Assange saga is a chilling attempt to silence free speech. You must be one of the last people still drinking the kool aid on this one.
    Are you aware of Chelsea Manning's current predicament and the reasons for this. Inform yourself before commenting further, Steve. Supporting the persecution of Assange puts you on the side of war mongers, war criminals and their apologists.
   
You can't have an individual unilaterally deciding whether they will obey the law or not, or civilization as we know it would break down. It's true there are concerns over the US judiciary(in recent days we've had Nancy Pelosi accusing the country's chief lawyer, the United States Attorney General William Barr of lying to Congress), we've had the miscarriages of justice involving IRA prisoners in the 1970s and 1980s and many other cases, but Assange should be extradited to Sweden to answer these rape charges.


I don't like your tone towards me gringo in recent posts and if you commit personal attacks on me again I will ask Mike to ban you. Failing that I'm leaving myself.

Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2019, 12:45:AM »
You can't have an individual unilaterally deciding whether they will obey the law or not, or civilization as we know it would break down. It's true there are concerns over the US judiciary(in recent days we've had Nancy Pelosi accusing the country's chief lawyer, the United States Attorney General William Barr of lying to Congress), we've had the miscarriages of justice involving IRA prisoners in the 1970s and 1980s and many other cases, but Assange should be extradited to Sweden to answer these rape charges.


I don't like your tone towards me gringo in recent posts and if you commit personal attacks on me again I will ask Mike to ban you. Failing that I'm leaving myself.
   There are not and never have been any rape charges. Assange has never been charged with rape and my pointing out your lack of knowledge on the issues at hand is legitimate debate. Crying about the tone that I am, in your view, taking towards you is pathetic. I have asked you questions and you have shown that you know very little about the case.
     So far you have diverted the issue with asides about Litvinenko, Salisbury and now IRA miscarriages from the 70's, Nancy Pelosi and the US AG allegedly lying to congress. Nothing to do with Assange's charges and extradition.
    If you don't like my tone then ignore me. Making threats about telling tales and asking for members who you disagree with to be banned is childish and doesn't reflect well on you. Grow up.
    Your failure to address the Espionage Act charges and what the implications of these charges mean for journalists worldwide shows your lack of understanding of what is going on. The secret Grand Jury wasn't a conspiracy dreamed up by "rape apologists". You should be troubled by the persecution of Assange. That you aren't demonstrates that either you are poorly read and informed or an apologist for war mongers and criminals.
    Would you also be ok with extraditing him to Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran or any country anywhere? just because he had published leaked documents of any of those governments. If those countries were now threatening charges carrying possible death or 175 year sentences despite the charged person not being a citizen of the country, would you still support extradition?
    You would call out Russia et al. if they were attempting to extradite Assange for publishing secrets about their war crimes. You need to apply the same standards to your own government and those of our allies. The UK and US governments have scored a massive own goal with their behaviour and stomped on international law and Vienna Conventions in their thuggish behaviour. You should be ashamed to be still defending their actions.
     

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2019, 07:19:AM »
  There are not and never have been any rape charges. Assange has never been charged with rape and my pointing out your lack of knowledge on the issues at hand is legitimate debate. Crying about the tone that I am, in your view, taking towards you is pathetic. I have asked you questions and you have shown that you know very little about the case.
     So far you have diverted the issue with asides about Litvinenko, Salisbury and now IRA miscarriages from the 70's, Nancy Pelosi and the US AG allegedly lying to congress. Nothing to do with Assange's charges and extradition.
    If you don't like my tone then ignore me. Making threats about telling tales and asking for members who you disagree with to be banned is childish and doesn't reflect well on you. Grow up.
    Your failure to address the Espionage Act charges and what the implications of these charges mean for journalists worldwide shows your lack of understanding of what is going on. The secret Grand Jury wasn't a conspiracy dreamed up by "rape apologists". You should be troubled by the persecution of Assange. That you aren't demonstrates that either you are poorly read and informed or an apologist for war mongers and criminals.
    Would you also be ok with extraditing him to Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran or any country anywhere? just because he had published leaked documents of any of those governments. If those countries were now threatening charges carrying possible death or 175 year sentences despite the charged person not being a citizen of the country, would you still support extradition?
    You would call out Russia et al. if they were attempting to extradite Assange for publishing secrets about their war crimes. You need to apply the same standards to your own government and those of our allies. The UK and US governments have scored a massive own goal with their behaviour and stomped on international law and Vienna Conventions in their thuggish behaviour. You should be ashamed to be still defending their actions.
   

For goodness sake I've been a teacher for 30 years and one might assume therefore that I could withstand intimidation. It's you who can't take any alternative point of view and who is playing the man not the ball. I mentioned the cases I did which I thought you would have been pleased about because they buttress your case that all the judiciary everywhere is corrupt, but notwithstanding a few high profile miscarriage of justice cases does not mean that the rule of law in general should not be followed in the democracies of the USA and Sweden.


There were allegations of rape or sexual assault made against Assange by two Swedish women in 2010. I have my doubts about the evidence from the video nugnug posted and other documents quoted here but the point is he should not be allowed to wriggle out of these charges just because he might be extradited to America should the Swedish judiciary decide once they have him on their soil. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48249486

I have stated previously that I didn't have a problem with some of the documents that were released; it was the willy-nilly nature of them being put in the public domain which I objected to. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37165230

The state of Assange's mental health is a concern to many. For an individual to begin smearing his own faeces on a London embassy's walls there is evidently something wrong, and it may be up to the doctors in the final analysis to consider whether he is fit to stand trial for any of the alleged crimes. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/05/29/assange-is-reportedly-gravely-ill-and-hardly-anyones-talking-about-it/
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:26:AM by Steve_uk »

Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2019, 04:26:PM »
For goodness sake I've been a teacher for 30 years and one might assume therefore that I could withstand intimidation. It's you who can't take any alternative point of view and who is playing the man not the ball. I mentioned the cases I did which I thought you would have been pleased about because they buttress your case that all the judiciary everywhere is corrupt, but notwithstanding a few high profile miscarriage of justice cases does not mean that the rule of law in general should not be followed in the democracies of the USA and Sweden.


There were allegations of rape or sexual assault made against Assange by two Swedish women in 2010. I have my doubts about the evidence from the video nugnug posted and other documents quoted here but the point is he should not be allowed to wriggle out of these charges just because he might be extradited to America should the Swedish judiciary decide once they have him on their soil. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48249486

I have stated previously that I didn't have a problem with some of the documents that were released; it was the willy-nilly nature of them being put in the public domain which I objected to. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37165230

The state of Assange's mental health is a concern to many. For an individual to begin smearing his own faeces on a London embassy's walls there is evidently something wrong, and it may be up to the doctors in the final analysis to consider whether he is fit to stand trial for any of the alleged crimes. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/05/29/assange-is-reportedly-gravely-ill-and-hardly-anyones-talking-about-it/
    It is the highlighted part that is the issue, and always has been though, Steve.
    Extradition to the US would be to be complicit in what is an unprecedented assault on journalistic freedom worldwide and everyone should stand against this. The allegations against Assange fall apart the more you read and find out, as you have found with the video etc. and were always  just a tool to smear Assange.
    The allegation of "wiily nilly" release of the documents has been made many times by Assange opponents over the years but never substantiated. It was reported in many outlets that the leaks had put agents in danger.  Despite these reports not a single person has come to harm because of the revelations. There is also the not inconsiderable problem that "willy nilly" publishing should surely not be a crime punishable under the US Espionage Act. Who decides whether something has been editorialised or censored appropriately or not? That is a very slippery slope.
     I asked previously whether you would support any other government if the US was replaced by China, Russia or the Saudi's. The question is rhetorical as nobody in their right mind would support any of those countries against a whistleblower and a journalist. The point of the rhetorical device is to emphasise just what is being condoned by support of the US and UK governments here.
    Chelsea Manning's plight should be causing outrage and both she and Assange, who have both shown much courage in telling unpalatable truths and have paid and are both still paying a heavy price for their bravery, should be supported by everyone who believes in even the most basic of freedoms.
    To be on the side of the US government on this is supporting despotism. 
   

Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 03:30:AM »
    Worth watching to the end, an interview with Nils Melzer, the UN special rapporteur on torture. His report just released is devastating to the reputations of the governments of the US, UK, Ecuador and Sweden. The lies of the Assange affair are being exposed. 18 minutes interview and it really does contain a few truth bombs, not the least of which is the active collusion of these four governments in the persecution of one man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErW1taJEPrs


         

     

     

Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2019, 04:49:AM »
     The excellent Craig Murray as always worth a read: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/



Online gringo

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2019, 03:03:PM »
     Craig Murray with a new piece today:  https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

   I think more people are waking up to the reality in front of them. It is becoming more difficult to remain blind to the egregious breaches of international law and treaties that the UK is guilty of. The media are barely reporting the UN report, which tacitly confirms the implication of complicity of the press and institutions of the four countries involved in the persecution of one man.
   Nils Melzer is correct to say that this needs to stop and stop now.
   Craig Murray is correct, in my view, that the UK has now earned the status of Rogue State. 



Online nugnug

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2019, 08:13:PM »

Online nugnug

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Re: juilan assange rape chardge.
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2019, 10:19:AM »