Author Topic: The Bathroom Window Revisited  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline Caroline

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The Bathroom Window Revisited
« on: April 06, 2019, 09:02:PM »
As there is little movement on the case I thought I would try and spark debate (debate not an argument!).

I am still convinced that Bamber left WHF via the bathroom window because of his description of how he could use a hacksaw blade to open the catch and enter and bang the window closed to make it look as though it was locked. Many old sash windows use the type of catch below and as you can see, it's simply a screw which fits in a slot. You can easily use something like a hacksaw blade to push the catch out of the slot housing and open the window and banging it shut will cause the pivoted screw to fall forward back into the housing. This is why Jones thought the windows were all locked however, when Sergeant Stephen Golding checked the shower room window, he found it closed but not secured, to secure it, you have to tighten the screw or the window remains unlocked.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 09:05:PM by Caroline »
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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2019, 08:10:PM »
if he had used a hacksaw blade surely they wuld be able to tell.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 03:19:PM »
if he had used a hacksaw blade surely they wuld be able to tell.

Why? It's simply a tool that is thin enough to fit between the two panes. They found a hacksaw blade and he admitted to using one on other occasions. It wasn't used to saw anything. However, he doesn't have to have used a HSB, he could have used anything.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 03:20:PM by Caroline »
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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 04:10:PM »
you will find all sorts of things laying around a farm yard

wouldent there be a danger of being heard if you opened a window like that.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 05:19:PM »
you will find all sorts of things laying around a farm yard

wouldent there be a danger of being heard if you opened a window like that.


Indeed you will, but hadn't he described it as a method he'd previously used? Of course, there are many who are determined to to call it a coincidence. A danger of being heard? With the residents upstairs, asleep? It was a very solid Georgian family house with thick walls. I imagine it was a chance worth taking.

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 06:21:PM »

Indeed you will, but hadn't he described it as a method he'd previously used? Of course, there are many who are determined to to call it a coincidence. A danger of being heard? With the residents upstairs, asleep? It was a very solid Georgian family house with thick walls. I imagine it was a chance worth taking.

maybe there determined to call it a coincidence because that's what it is.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 07:16:PM »
maybe there determined to call it a coincidence because that's what it is.

I imagine that 'coincidences' can be attached to every crime that's ever been committed. They form a part of a defence counsel's 'bag of tricks' which they use to try to get their client off. If you watch "Murder, Mystery and My Family -Case Closed" you'll see that the majority were convicted on coincidences. A present day judge has only -of the cases I've watched- ruled one as being an unsafe conviction.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 09:33:PM »
you will find all sorts of things laying around a farm yard

wouldent there be a danger of being heard if you opened a window like that.

I didn't say he entered through that window, I said that's how he left! He doesn't have to have used a hacksaw, but from his own words ..... "You can flick the catch with any thin metal object"

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5815
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 09:36:PM by Caroline »
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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 01:35:AM »
I didn't say he entered through that window, I said that's how he left! He doesn't have to have used a hacksaw, but from his own words ..... "You can flick the catch with any thin metal object"

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5815

surely he could of left any way he wanted to he wouldent of needed to.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 07:52:AM »
surely he could of left any way he wanted to he wouldent of needed to.


Well now. If you're trying to rule out windows, I'll hazard a guess that all that's left are doors. But if you're a murderer who's trying to paint a picture of the murders being carried out by someone within the house, unless you have a door key, it's going to look a bit suspicious, when the police arrive to find an unlocked door

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 01:19:PM »

Well now. If you're trying to rule out windows, I'll hazard a guess that all that's left are doors. But if you're a murderer who's trying to paint a picture of the murders being carried out by someone within the house, unless you have a door key, it's going to look a bit suspicious, when the police arrive to find an unlocked door

Exactly.
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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 06:37:PM »

Well now. If you're trying to rule out windows, I'll hazard a guess that all that's left are doors. But if you're a murderer who's trying to paint a picture of the murders being carried out by someone within the house, unless you have a door key, it's going to look a bit suspicious, when the police arrive to find an unlocked door

he could of got the door key if he wanted to.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 06:54:PM »
he could of got the door key if he wanted to.

How would he lock the door and maintain the illusion that no one left? The keys had to be in the door and you can't lock a door with a key if a key is in the opposing lock!
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Offline Jane

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2019, 08:01:PM »
he could of got the door key if he wanted to.


Or even gone up the chimney -Georgian houses have enormous chimneys-  that way the key would have remained in the lock.

Offline Reader

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Re: The Bathroom Window Revisited
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2019, 12:39:PM »
. . . because of his description of how he could use a hacksaw blade to open the catch and enter and bang the window closed to make it look as though it was locked.
Where exactly can we read such a detailed description? I thought he had said he couldn't have fully secured a window shut from outside (or words to that effect).

This is why Jones thought the windows were all locked however, when Sergeant Stephen Golding checked the shower room window, he found it closed but not secured, to secure it, you have to tighten the screw or the window remains unlocked.
You can't conclude that's the reason unless you know that the particular window catch used for the window concerned is of the type you've mentioned (or similar). Did Sergeant Golding specifically state that the catch concerned had a screw that needed to be tightened to secure the window, as distinct from a catch that just required a quarter or half turn (approximately) to secure the window?

You can easily use something like a hacksaw blade to push the catch out of the slot housing
You stated you believed that Jeremy left via the bathroom window, which wouldn't require dislodging the catch from outside. Do you also believe he entered via the same window and relied on prising it open from outside instead of just leaving it unlocked in advance? If a hacksaw blade had ever been used to open that window's catch from outside, there would be noticeable scratches on the catch caused by the hacksaw blade (or similar instrument).