Author Topic: RE: Essex boys murders 1995  (Read 778 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 06:15:PM »
Only until aged about 6.  Then Maidstone in Kent until aged 9.


Ah right. What is your view on this case (if any)
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Offline Roch

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 10:04:AM »

Ah right. What is your view on this case (if any)

There's one or two old threads on here about it.  Not sure tbh.  The crime scene images are gruesome.

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2019, 10:20:PM »
There's one or two old threads on here about it.  Not sure tbh. 


You would have to be rather ignorant of the evidence (like I once was) to entertain the notion that Whomes and Steele are not the killers.

The crime scene images are gruesome.

Indeed, but oddly satisfying considering the history of the victims. Tucker and Rolfe were suspected of murdering Kevin Whitaker. Pat Tate barged into a Pizza Takeaway and physically assaulted the staff because they wouldn't serve him something that wasn't on their menu. The staff at the Pizza place dropped all charges after they realised who he was. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what them three got up to.

You cant really blame Steele for doing what he done once word of Pat Tate's big mouth got round to him. What else could he have done? Tell the police he is getting death threats over the lousy drugs he imported?  ;D

They were also drawing a lot of attention to themselves and thus risked exposing their drug suppliers (such as Steele) to the authorities. Cant say they didn't have it coming.  :-\
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 10:22:PM by David1819 »
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Offline Adam

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2019, 11:23:PM »

You would have to be rather ignorant of the evidence (like I once was) to entertain the notion that Whomes and Steele are not the killers.

Indeed, but oddly satisfying considering the history of the victims. Tucker and Rolfe were suspected of murdering Kevin Whitaker. Pat Tate barged into a Pizza Takeaway and physically assaulted the staff because they wouldn't serve him something that wasn't on their menu. The staff at the Pizza place dropped all charges after they realised who he was. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what them three got up to.

You cant really blame Steele for doing what he done once word of Pat Tate's big mouth got round to him. What else could he have done? Tell the police he is getting death threats over the lousy drugs he imported?  ;D

They were also drawing a lot of attention to themselves and thus risked exposing their drug suppliers (such as Steele) to the authorities. Cant say they didn't have it coming.  :-\

Have you seen 'Rise of the foot solider' ? A lot is quite believable. Espescially the massacre.

The two alternative massacre options they filmed did not look possible.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2019, 04:26:PM »
Have you seen 'Rise of the foot solider' ? A lot is quite believable. Espescially the massacre.

The two alternative massacre options they filmed did not look possible.


Yes. That film first brought my attention to this case. The Pat Tate Pizza incident in that film did indeed take place. Albeit exaggerated for cinematic purposes, he never used a pizza knife as shown in the film.

"11/12/95 - Tates mad attack over pizza put man in hospital
Evening Echo

JUST two days before he was found murdered, drug dealer Patrick Tate had put a man in hospital in a frenzied attack.

Pizza manager Roger Ryall was left with blood streaming down his face from head wounds as Tate stormed into his shop, threw a till across the room and smashed his head against a glass plate on a drainingboard.

It was all over a pizza Tate,37, wanted to order but wasnot on the menu at the London Pizza Company, Britannia Court, Basildon.Mr Ryall, 21,said: "A woman phoned asking for a pizza which we don't do. Tate grabbed the phone and started swearing down it.

"I wasn't going to take that so I said, 'Get rid of the attitude and I will send you a pizza'. That made him worse and he slammed the phone down. "He arrived half an hour later. He picked up the till and threw it across the room at me.

I backed out of the office and pushed the panic button ."He punched me in the face and then smashed my head down on a glass plate on the draining board." Tate warned him not to call the police or he would go back and smash the place up and hurt his staff.

The panic button brought officers after Tate had left and Mr Ryall decided not to press charges. Tate's' call was traced to his home in Gordon Road, Basildon, but he was not arrested. Mr Ryall and his staff said they were able to relax only after they saw Tate's picture on the front of the Echo and. read about his death.
"
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 04:29:PM by David1819 »
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2019, 06:48:PM »
When the police raided Whomes and Steele's addresses some 5 month after the murders, They found this vehicle in their possession.




It looks suspiciously similar to what witnesses describe seeing with the Range on the evening of December 6th. Considering it would have been almost dark when when the witnesses drescibed what they saw. This is probably what they actually had seen.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 06:50:PM by David1819 »
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline Adam

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2019, 11:08:AM »
When the police raided Whomes and Steele's addresses some 5 month after the murders, They found this vehicle in their possession.




It looks suspiciously similar to what witnesses describe seeing with the Range on the evening of December 6th. Considering it would have been almost dark when when the witnesses drescibed what they saw. This is probably what they actually had seen.

Amazing that witnesses take notice & remember what a vehicle looked like, as well as that it was with another vehicle.

I couldn't even remember the colour of the last taxi I got in, let alone take notice & remember vehicles which are noting to do with me.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2019, 01:38:PM »
Amazing that witnesses take notice & remember what a vehicle looked like, as well as that it was with another vehicle.

I couldn't even remember the colour of the last taxi I got in, let alone take notice & remember vehicles which are noting to do with me.


Since the massacre was all over the news the following day, it would stay with you if you were in the area. 

"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2019, 03:20:PM »
According to Steele, the reason for an illegal shotgun being found on his property was because some crazy old man left it there.

"He was asked about question 9 on page 7 where he was told he was going to be arrested for possession of a shotgun found in his house. He told you he had known the previous owner of the house who was an aging gentleman who had gone senile and could not help himself. He remembered a similar situation in 1970 when he had found premises for another person. That person had purchased the premises and in the renovation people came across a very old gun in the loft.

Steele thought it could be a similar situation here when the shotgun was put to him in May. Therefore he was of the opinion that the gun was obviously not connected with the Rettendon killings in 1995. He did not know where they said the shotgun was found but he knew it was found under a board. He had also done an extension to part of the property that had a flat roof. He thought there was no way the gun would have been found in any part of the building that he had renovated. He did not ask where the gun had been found or tell his solicitor to ask the police where it had been found. He said the old gentleman could have hidden the gun."


Then we have Steele making phone calls to a complete stranger via Nicholls mobile.

"We have the contrast there of course between Nicholls' evidence that he had his mobile with him whenever he was at work and Steele's evidence that that call was made but the person he spoke to was not Nicholls but a total stranger"


Then we have Steele's solicitor manipulating witnesses in order to create a bogus alibi.


"The prosecution alleges the killings took place between 6.45pm and 7pm on December 6.

However, Mrs Stambrook testified that Steele was at his home in St Mary's Road, Great Bentley, Essex, at 7.30pm that night. She told the court she was considering buying his bungalow. Steele had invited them to look around it. She added: "When we arrived they were having a celebration. They had signed a contract that day for a new property and we had champagne.''

But Andrew Munday, QC, prosecuting, revealed Steele's defence team did not ask Mrs Stambrook to give evidence until March this year. And in a police statement she made this month, Mrs Stambrook stated it was Steele's solicitor who told her the night of her visit was December 6.

He continued: "Let's say he spoke to you on March 1. If I had asked you on February 28 on what date you went round to see Mr Steele what would you have said?" Mrs Stambrook replied: "I would have said I can't recall.""



Its about as believable as a shark on water skis.
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 04:49:PM »
According to Steele, the reason for an illegal shotgun being found on his property was because some crazy old man left it there.

"He was asked about question 9 on page 7 where he was told he was going to be arrested for possession of a shotgun found in his house. He told you he had known the previous owner of the house who was an aging gentleman who had gone senile and could not help himself. He remembered a similar situation in 1970 when he had found premises for another person. That person had purchased the premises and in the renovation people came across a very old gun in the loft.

Steele thought it could be a similar situation here when the shotgun was put to him in May. Therefore he was of the opinion that the gun was obviously not connected with the Rettendon killings in 1995. He did not know where they said the shotgun was found but he knew it was found under a board. He had also done an extension to part of the property that had a flat roof. He thought there was no way the gun would have been found in any part of the building that he had renovated. He did not ask where the gun had been found or tell his solicitor to ask the police where it had been found. He said the old gentleman could have hidden the gun."



Steele invents a story for the shotgun being found in the loft without being told it was found in the loft and neither did he ask whereabouts they had found it. This shows he knew all about the shotgun and the whole story is a lie. Much like the defence he later put together


"Furthermore, the complete failure of Steele and Whomes to make any mention to the police of the detailed accounts which they were later to give, which entirely exonerated them from participation in the murder – and indeed the importations of cannabis - was plainly capable of being a matter from which an adverse inference could be drawn."

"He was taken through his interviews in May 1996…. He said he could have said where he was on 6th December at any time in those times when he was in custody. He chose not to because he was given legal advice not to. It was put to him that the real reason was that he had not invented his defence yet."



Considering they seized large quantities of cannabis at Whomes address and credit card statements with corroborating hotel check ins show Steele making short trips to Amsterdam. Why bother denying the charges? Did they actually think they would be acquitted or did they have enough brain cells between them to work out that the cannabis imports show the prosecutions motive for the killings?

Steele is not as smart as he thinks he is. Its a pity Steeles trail testimony was never posted online. It would be a right chuckle to read hence it was never posted in the first place.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 07:38:PM by David1819 »
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Offline nugnug

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2019, 06:15:PM »
david they were convicted there not leaving prison anytime soon if ever why bother.

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2019, 07:38:PM »
david they were convicted there not leaving prison anytime soon if ever why bother.


This case interests me and you have to research cases in order to come to a sound conclusion (regardless of who is in prison).
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Offline Adam

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2019, 08:08:PM »
Steele invents a story for the shotgun being found in the loft without being told it was found in the loft and neither did he ask whereabouts they had found it. This shows he knew all about the shotgun and the whole story is a lie. Much like the defence he later put together


"Furthermore, the complete failure of Steele and Whomes to make any mention to the police of the detailed accounts which they were later to give, which entirely exonerated them from participation in the murder – and indeed the importations of cannabis - was plainly capable of being a matter from which an adverse inference could be drawn."

"He was taken through his interviews in May 1996…. He said he could have said where he was on 6th December at any time in those times when he was in custody. He chose not to because he was given legal advice not to. It was put to him that the real reason was that he had not invented his defence yet."



Considering they seized large quantities of cannabis at Whomes address and credit card statements with corroborating hotel check ins show Steele making short trips to Amsterdam. Why bother denying the charges? Did they actually think they would be acquitted or did they have enough brain cells between them to work out that the cannabis imports show the prosecutions motive for the killings?

Steele is not as smart as he thinks he is. Its a pity Steeles trail testimony was never posted online. It would be a right chuckle to read hence it was never posted in the first place.

Was the found shot gun the same type as used in the massacre ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2019, 08:40:PM »
Was the found shot gun the same type as used in the massacre ?


Unlike rifles and pistols, Shot guns cannot be forensically linked to the bullets they fire since they are smooth bore.  :(

Even if it was not the massacre gun. What is he doing with one? His previous convictions would have precluded him from getting it legally and neither was he the member of a shooting club. I can only deduce that he had if for bad intentions.

In my opinion It is a myth that Whomes and Steele were convicted on the word of Darren Nicholls. What convicted them was thier own inconsistent versions of events and the excuses they came up with to cover thier web of lies. This only made Darren Nicholls seem even more credible in contrast. If anyone tries to discredit Darren Nicholls I suggest they look at Whomes and Steeles side of the story. Then they can get a good idea of who is being truthfull and who isnt.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 08:55:PM by David1819 »
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Offline nugnug

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Re: RE: Essex boys murders 1995
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2019, 09:09:PM »
i dont know much about the case but bernie o bullshit was being rather dishonest when he said the supergrass was the only evdence agianst them.

he left out the the cell phone evdence.