Author Topic: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell  (Read 223 times)

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Offline petey

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The trials of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell finally started at Preston Crown Court today.

Please everyone be mindful NOT to post anything too emotive / judgemental / libellous whilst the trials are ongoing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46878778

JFT96

Offline petey

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 04:38:PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-47555666

Sadly for many, somewhat predictable that David Duckenfield chooses not to testify.

JFT96

Offline petey

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 12:36:PM »
Mackrell - GUILTY
Duckenfield - no verdict

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-47800960

JFT96
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 12:38:PM by petey »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 07:24:PM »
Mackrell - GUILTY
Duckenfield - no verdict

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-47800960

JFT96
It looks like a retrial Petey.

Offline petey

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 12:58:AM »
I have completely mixed feelings to be honest and I accept my opinions maybe somewhat influenced by my proximity to the Hillsborough families and support of Liverpool FC.

On a separate note, I start my PhD thesis in September covering critical victimology and the victimhood narrative, post Hillsborough. (I write as a legal academic, not a LFC fan (hopefully))

Firstly, after 30 years, following the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report and 2nd inquests, which completely exonerated the LFC fans, whilst placing the blame clearly at the doorstep of the police, it seems hard to believe that the sole person to be found CRIMINALLY guilty of an offence relating to the Hillsborough Disaster is an ex SWFC safety officer, who now faces the maximum sentence of an unlimited fine.

Duckenfield has a case to answer. It has strongly been rumoured that the jury weighting was 9-3 in favour of guilt but we will never know this and the weighting will never be released publicly.

On the one hand, even after 30 years, the families of the victims still don’t have closure. Why should they not have the right to a retrial when Duckenfiehd clearly still has a case to answer and many people (including people within the legal profession) believe him guilty. BUT on the other hand, here is a 74 year old man, who despite what some people say, did his best on the day. His efforts fell well short of the required standard, but were part of much wider failings on behalf of the police, stadium, ambulance services, FA, government.....

A retrial will not bring back the 96. It may bring closure. But what if again there us a hung jury or even if Duckenfield is found not guilty. Imagine the emotional harm this would cause the families, many of whom are in old age now.

Ultimately, there are no winners and never will be. Whilst Duckenfield still has a case to answer, some families passionately support a retrial, whilst others want to get on with their lives. What happened at Hillsborough will always be on Duckenfield’s conscience but sadly moving forwards nothing can bring back the 96 and nothing can bring closure to everybody.

JFT96

Offline maggie

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 10:36:AM »
I have completely mixed feelings to be honest and I accept my opinions maybe somewhat influenced by my proximity to the Hillsborough families and support of Liverpool FC.

On a separate note, I start my PhD thesis in September covering critical victimology and the victimhood narrative, post Hillsborough. (I write as a legal academic, not a LFC fan (hopefully))

Firstly, after 30 years, following the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report and 2nd inquests, which completely exonerated the LFC fans, whilst placing the blame clearly at the doorstep of the police, it seems hard to believe that the sole person to be found CRIMINALLY guilty of an offence relating to the Hillsborough Disaster is an ex SWFC safety officer, who now faces the maximum sentence of an unlimited fine.

Duckenfield has a case to answer. It has strongly been rumoured that the jury weighting was 9-3 in favour of guilt but we will never know this and the weighting will never be released publicly.

On the one hand, even after 30 years, the families of the victims still don’t have closure. Why should they not have the right to a retrial when Duckenfiehd clearly still has a case to answer and many people (including people within the legal profession) believe him guilty. BUT on the other hand, here is a 74 year old man, who despite what some people say, did his best on the day. His efforts fell well short of the required standard, but were part of much wider failings on behalf of the police, stadium, ambulance services, FA, government.....

A retrial will not bring back the 96. It may bring closure. But what if again there us a hung jury or even if Duckenfield is found not guilty. Imagine the emotional harm this would cause the families, many of whom are in old age now.

Ultimately, there are no winners and never will be. Whilst Duckenfield still has a case to answer, some families passionately support a retrial, whilst others want to get on with their lives. What happened at Hillsborough will always be on Duckenfield’s conscience but sadly moving forwards nothing can bring back the 96 and nothing can bring closure to everybody.

JFT96
I do agree with you petey.  Understandably there are mixed enotions, particularly amongst the bereaved families and friends and it is certainly not for me to judge. a massive tragedy for all involved, for many it was more a search for the truth and recognition rather than a blame gane. Others need retrubution, it depends what helps their personal pain imo.
Absolute respect for the struggle for justice, driven by love for those they lost.

JF/96
 

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2019, 03:49:PM »
I have completely mixed feelings to be honest and I accept my opinions maybe somewhat influenced by my proximity to the Hillsborough families and support of Liverpool FC.

On a separate note, I start my PhD thesis in September covering critical victimology and the victimhood narrative, post Hillsborough. (I write as a legal academic, not a LFC fan (hopefully))

Firstly, after 30 years, following the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report and 2nd inquests, which completely exonerated the LFC fans, whilst placing the blame clearly at the doorstep of the police, it seems hard to believe that the sole person to be found CRIMINALLY guilty of an offence relating to the Hillsborough Disaster is an ex SWFC safety officer, who now faces the maximum sentence of an unlimited fine.

Duckenfield has a case to answer. It has strongly been rumoured that the jury weighting was 9-3 in favour of guilt but we will never know this and the weighting will never be released publicly.

On the one hand, even after 30 years, the families of the victims still don’t have closure. Why should they not have the right to a retrial when Duckenfiehd clearly still has a case to answer and many people (including people within the legal profession) believe him guilty. BUT on the other hand, here is a 74 year old man, who despite what some people say, did his best on the day. His efforts fell well short of the required standard, but were part of much wider failings on behalf of the police, stadium, ambulance services, FA, government.....

A retrial will not bring back the 96. It may bring closure. But what if again there us a hung jury or even if Duckenfield is found not guilty. Imagine the emotional harm this would cause the families, many of whom are in old age now.

Ultimately, there are no winners and never will be. Whilst Duckenfield still has a case to answer, some families passionately support a retrial, whilst others want to get on with their lives. What happened at Hillsborough will always be on Duckenfield’s conscience but sadly moving forwards nothing can bring back the 96 and nothing can bring closure to everybody.

JFT96
I'm surprised that you say this Petey. I would have thought his actions and non-actions on the day were a disgrace. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31928476
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 03:50:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline petey

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2019, 07:03:PM »
I'm surprised that you say this Petey. I would have thought his actions and non-actions on the day were a disgrace. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31928476

Duckenfields answers at the inquests were carefully crafted by lawyers and he doesn’t admit any criminal liability. That said, the judge at the trial told the jury to totally disregard anything said at the inquests.

Ultimately IN MY OPINION Duckenfield was not the right person to have been in charge of the policing operation on the day. He lacked the experience or knowledge of what to do when problems arose.

I 100% support the views of the Hillsborough families with regards David Duckenfield. However, having worked and studied in the legal world for over 20 years, whether his actions on the day are enough to make him guilty beyond reasonable doubt of a criminal offence, is a whole different matter.

My opinions based on all the material I have read and studied and the evidence I have viewed, may be different to a jury who sat through all the evidence raised during a 10 week trial.

As I’ve said before, what happened at Hillsborough will ALWAYS remain on Duckenfields conscience regardless of whether he is convicted at any future trial.

JFT96

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Hillsborough: Trial of David Duckenfield and Graham Mackrell
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 01:19:PM »
They kept the fact that police witness statements were altered, for the purpose of trying to pin the responsibility for the disaster on drunken Liverpool supporters...

In many instances, statements made by police officers were edited, by other police officers, without the named witnesses knowing what had been done to their witness statements, rendering such witness statements forgeries - Since, the named police witness statements had not been made of their own free will, (if tended into evidence), hence why they did not rely upon these doctored witness statements at the recent trial..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...