Author Topic: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..  (Read 1270 times)

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Online mike tesko

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Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« on: December 20, 2018, 09:59:AM »
There should be another public vote..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Online mike tesko

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 10:04:AM »
It wasn't fully explained to voters, all the implications which have since become highlighted..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 11:57:AM »
There should be another public vote..
You can have another public vote..after an appropriate passage of time.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 12:41:PM »
There should be another public vote..

WOW! Something I agree with you 100% on!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 12:46:PM »
It wasn't fully explained to voters, all the implications which have since become highlighted..

Totally agree! If you buy something (in good faith) and it turns out not to work the way it was advertised, you can take it back. No one knew what they were voting for and for many, it seems to have been a gut reaction in respect in immigration - it's a complete mess!
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 12:48:PM »
..and if your second referendum results in 52/48 for Remain should we make it the best of three..

Offline Jane

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 01:01:PM »
..and if your second referendum results in 52/48 for Remain should we make it the best of three..


That's exactly what I thought, Steve.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 01:11:PM »

That's exactly what I thought, Steve.
Remain has more or less got what it wanted anyway-BRINO, or Brexit In Name Only.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:PM »
..and if your second referendum results in 52/48 for Remain should we make it the best of three..

NO! (I don't know why people keep asking this!) - Reason being that people are more informed and now know the possible consequences/advantages in respect to what they are voting for and those that didn't bother because they never thought BREXIT would happen, will now get off their arse and take part in the vote.

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 01:16:PM »
Remain has more or less got what it wanted anyway-BRINO, or Brexit In Name Only.

I take it you voted to leave?  ;D
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2018, 01:26:PM »

That's exactly what I thought, Steve.

OK - the leave camp won on a small majority but most had no idea of the consequences and many voted simply because 'they didn't like johnny foreigner'. Since then, we're all now more aware of the consequences and it''s really not as simple as was first promoted. TM has a deal, the best deal anyone is going to get. Does that make it a good deal? Does that make it better than the status quo? The people voted to leave so regardless of whether it's the best thing for the country - lets do it anyway? If the will of the people is to leave, why are the leavers so concerned about another referendum to make sure it truly is the will of the now informed majority?
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2018, 01:32:PM »
OK - the leave camp won on a small majority but most had no idea of the consequences and many voted simply because 'they didn't like johnny foreigner'. Since then, we're all now more aware of the consequences and it''s really not as simple as was first promoted. TM has a deal, the best deal anyone is going to get. Does that make it a good deal? Does that make it better than the status quo? The people voted to leave so regardless of whether it's the best thing for the country - lets do it anyway? If the will of the people is to leave, why are the leavers so concerned about another referendum to make sure it truly is the will of the now informed majority?
Because democracy has spoken. People voted to leave the European Union not to endlessly negotiate and if you can't see what the Establishment is doing then let's just say I'm surprised at you.

Offline Jane

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2018, 01:52:PM »
OK - the leave camp won on a small majority but most had no idea of the consequences and many voted simply because 'they didn't like johnny foreigner'. Since then, we're all now more aware of the consequences and it''s really not as simple as was first promoted. TM has a deal, the best deal anyone is going to get. Does that make it a good deal? Does that make it better than the status quo? The people voted to leave so regardless of whether it's the best thing for the country - lets do it anyway? If the will of the people is to leave, why are the leavers so concerned about another referendum to make sure it truly is the will of the now informed majority?

I voted to stay in. If there's a second referendum -and now, because the furore I foresaw has exceeded my vision- I'd vote the same way again. I think the most we can say of TM's deal is that it's the best we can hope for under the circumstances. When it comes to divorce, one party usually feels they've drawn the short straw. I can only think leavers feel confident that another referendum will see more people on their side. Personally, I think the Utopia they imagined -once they are freed of the burden of Europe- exists only in their fantasies.

Offline Roch

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2018, 01:54:PM »
It wasn't fully explained to voters, all the implications which have since become highlighted..

Although there is a lot of truth in this statement, I think a lot of the people who had no doubts about voting Leave were in fact savvy and knew exactly what they were voting for.   Many also knew it might mean an economic downturn initially.

I voted leave but was on the fence for the campaign.  In other words, I probably initially wanted a 'soft Brexit'.  I now feel mistaken in this.

When slime-balls like Tony Blair turn up, openly pushing for a second vote, you know you're on the right side when you're on the opposition side.  The gall of the man. 

We let them foist upon us a Remainer 'plant in waiting', to lead the Conservatives.  They were able to do this by trashing Andrea Ledsome's lack of experience and because the two front running male Brexiteers were buffoons who lacked support (Johnson and Gove).

As much as I cant abide Johnson and Gove, I now realise May was at worst a huge con and at best a terrible mistake.  We should have had a confident Brexiteer at the helm to aim towards a 'no deal' and end up delivering a hard Brexit.  The EU have treated us with contempt; and yes, we did spill blood to rescue them in 1939-45. The EU were forced to do this in order to send out a message of deterrent.. but it's still a disgrace.

And as for Labour, Corbyn has been trapped.  He's anti-EU but has to appease all the remoaners that his party is saturated with.   He could have won over potentially millions of voters, simply by getting rid of Starmer and replacing him with someone like Gisela Stewart.  Starmer shouldn't be anywhere near Brexit negotiations, shadow or otherwise. 

NO DEAL.  We should have worked towards minimising the negative impact of this as a priority, over all other attempted negotiations, from the very start. 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 02:06:PM by Roch »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brexit - the unfathomable truth..
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2018, 03:31:PM »
Although there is a lot of truth in this statement, I think a lot of the people who had no doubts about voting Leave were in fact savvy and knew exactly what they were voting for.   Many also knew it might mean an economic downturn initially.

I voted leave but was on the fence for the campaign.  In other words, I probably initially wanted a 'soft Brexit'.  I now feel mistaken in this.

When slime-balls like Tony Blair turn up, openly pushing for a second vote, you know you're on the right side when you're on the opposition side.  The gall of the man. 

We let them foist upon us a Remainer 'plant in waiting', to lead the Conservatives.  They were able to do this by trashing Andrea Ledsome's lack of experience and because the two front running male Brexiteers were buffoons who lacked support (Johnson and Gove).

As much as I cant abide Johnson and Gove, I now realise May was at worst a huge con and at best a terrible mistake.  We should have had a confident Brexiteer at the helm to aim towards a 'no deal' and end up delivering a hard Brexit.  The EU have treated us with contempt; and yes, we did spill blood to rescue them in 1939-45. The EU were forced to do this in order to send out a message of deterrent.. but it's still a disgrace.

And as for Labour, Corbyn has been trapped.  He's anti-EU but has to appease all the remoaners that his party is saturated with.   He could have won over potentially millions of voters, simply by getting rid of Starmer and replacing him with someone like Gisela Stewart.  Starmer shouldn't be anywhere near Brexit negotiations, shadow or otherwise. 

NO DEAL.  We should have worked towards minimising the negative impact of this as a priority, over all other attempted negotiations, from the very start.

Yeah, they SAY they did now - personally, I don't believe them.
Few people have the imagination for reality