Author Topic: JAMES BELL - there are some who believe that he was responsible for whf tragedy  (Read 22979 times)

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Offline Adam

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It is a proven fact we often see what we expect to see and hear what we expect to hear.  If someone identified himself as Nevill and sounded like Nevill calling from Nevill's phone in the middle of the night it is likely the only thought would be about the message and how to react to it.  It would be unlikely that you'd be questioning if it was actually Nevill in those circumstances?


Nevill did not identify himself in his call. He just said 11 words,  put the phone down & took it off the hook so Jeremy could not ring back. 

Jeremy would not know what phone had been used to phone him. He identified the voice as Nevill's and believed he had said 'Sheila', although later said Nevill may have said 'She'. 

Mike has said a hit man team or Jamie Bell may have committed the massacre. So another man may have rang Jeremy. 

Mike has also said Sheila's biological mother & Sherlock suggested AE may have committed the massacre. In this case Nevill somehow got to the phone & spent several minutes ringing Jeremy in the middle of the massacre, saying 'she'. Quite why Nevill would ring Jeremy in this situation is a mystery.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:51:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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It is a proven fact we often see what we expect to see and hear what we expect to hear.  If someone identified himself as Nevill and sounded like Nevill calling from Nevill's phone in the middle of the night it is likely the only thought would be about the message and how to react to it.  It would be unlikely that you'd be questioning if it was actually Nevill in those circumstances?

People who come from the same area often have the same accent, and both Neville and James Bell were farmers, I just think in the circumstances Jeremy could have been mistaken in believing his father had called him and had spoken those 11 words in the middle of the night! Having said this, it probably was Neville who made that call, and he may have said that 'Sheila has got the gun', but there was no additional information provided by the caller at that time as to (a) which gun Sheila had got hold of, (b) why she had got hold of the gun, (c) what if anything Sheila had done by that stage, and (d) what if anything had provoked, or caused Sheila to get hold of the gun. Additionally, there was no information, or explanation, (e) what was meant by Neville saying that 'She has gone Crazy', (f) crazy in what way, (g) mentally, (h) violently and physically, (I) had she discharged the gun at all by that stage, (j) had anybody already been shot, (j) or shot at...

For all we know, not only could it have been James Bell who made that call to Jeremy disguised as Neville Bamber, but it could also have been James Bell who had made the 3.26am call to the police, at which time he deliberately put the blame for what may already have happenned. Or what was about to happen on Sheila, who he referred to as his daughter! This particular phone call falls into the same category as a phone call that was made in the Diane Jones investigation when an anonymous caller tipped off police that they had seen Diane Jones in the Bury St Edmunds area, after she had mysteriously disappeared  from the doorstep of the home she shared
with Dr Jones, which was obviously a diversionary tactic, to take suspicion away from her killer!

The suggestion that Diane Jones simply walked off from the doorstep of the home she shared with Dr Jones simply does not stack up in view of what we now know happenned to her, and by that I mean what happened to her just before she disappeared, and what we now know became her fate afterwards!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 11:09:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline nugnug

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    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
but why does james bell want to frame sheila.

Offline mike tesko

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Nevill did not identify himself in his call. He just said 11 words,  put the phone down & took it off the hook so Jeremy could not ring back. or, whoever made the call to Jeremy at that time, simply tapped the cradle to get a dialing tone, so that a call could be made to alert the police as to what was transpiring or to what was about to take place. Seems to me that whoever called the police at 3.26am, did not tell the police that they had already made a call to Jeremy, and this could have been a deliberately ploy, say if the caller had been James Bell - because the 3.26am call was made to Chelmsford police station, which was a considerable distance from the scene as compared to the distance of Jeremy's cottage to the farmhouse. Did James Bell intend to shoot dead Jeremy at the scene before the police could get there?

Not only that / this, but whoever made that 3.26am call to Chelmsford police station, did so before Jeremy himself had tried to contact the police at Witham police station at about 3.29am, a call which was not answered, and which caused Jeremy to make a 03.30am call to Julie Mugford. If Jeremy had made the 3.26am call to Chelmsford police station and disguised himself as Neville Bamber, why would he then try to make a call to Witham police station minutes afterwards? We don't even know the duration of the 3.26am call that somebody made from the farmhouse purporting to be Neville Bamber, a fact supported by reference at that time, during that call to 'Daughter gone Berserk' and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. Whereas, Jeremy's call to police which started at 3.36am, lasted a specific duration of time terminating at around 3.45am...

The two phone logs produced by police (3.26am and 3.36am) have been claimed by some to be different interpretations of the same call that Jeremy had made, and that Jeremy had made that call at 3.26am, not at 3.36am - but if that be true, how could Jeremy have tried to make contact with Witham police station at 3.29am, followed by a 3.30am call to his girlfriend Julie Mugford'? Not only this, but if the 3.26am call was the correct time that Jeremy had spoken to PC West, a 9 minute call would have been terminated at the precise time that the occupants of CA97 had been deployed to the incident at whf, whereas PC West told Jeremy to make his way to the scene and that he would be met by officers who had already been deployed to the incident! The point being that prior to PC West telling Jeremy to make his way to the scene, PC West had contacted the operator and asked her to check the phone line at Whitehouse farm. This took place at 3.42am, and could not have been made while Jeremy was still being held on the line if he had called at 3.26am, and his call had lasted all of 9 minutes before Jeremy had been told to make his way to the scene. The timing of Jeremy's call therefore could not have occurred at 3.26am, by virtue of the fact that PC West did not speak to the lady operator until 3.42am ( 16 minutes after the 3.26am call that somebody from the farmhouse had made to the police). This has other far reaching implications on the testimony under oath given by PC West and the Civilian switchboard Operator, who dishonestly sought to decieve the court which was trying the case, into accepting and believing that there had been a mix up around the time of Jeremy's call to the police, they suggesting that his call had been made at 3.26am, without producing the phone log timed with that time for viewing and consideration!


Jeremy would not know what phone had been used to phone him. By the same token, neither would the police! Similarly, police would not know which phone inside whf had been used to made the 3.26am distress call to them - this is because between around 5.55am and 6.09am, the phone line at and from the farmhouse became mysteriously engaged! He identified the voice as Nevill's and believed he had said 'Sheila', although later said Nevill may have said 'She'. or 'HE'..

Mike has said a hit man team Er, I have suggested it, for the purpose of trying to stimulate debate.. or Jamie Bell may have committed the massacre. Well, if Sheila hadn't shot or attacked the other four, and certainly neither did Jeremy, who else had a motive for doing so, and suspicion fell under the police radar, leading to Mathew McDonald, Freddie Emani, and James Bell.. So another man may have rang Jeremy. Yes, the call to Jeremy could have been made by Neville Bamber, and James Bell could still have been the actual murderer, it's something which with the benefit of hindsight we all know that he (James Bell) was capable of doing!

Mike has also said Sheila's biological mother & Sherlock suggested AE may have committed the massacre. She has been mentioned, and her involvement is open to debate..In this case Nevill somehow got to the phone & spent several minutes ringing Jeremy in the middle of the massacre No, he didn't - it would have only taken a matter of seconds for the person who made that call to Jeremy to speak those 11 words, hurriedly.., saying 'she'. or, 'Sheila's, or 'HE HAS'..Quite why Nevill would ring Jeremy in this situation is a mystery. Why should it be a mystery? Jeremy's cottage at Head Street was closer to whf than the police station at Witham, or Chelmsford! At the trial, the dastardly prosecution claimed that Neville Bamber would have phoned the police, not Jeremy! As it turns out Neville Bamber did phone the police at 3.26am, and the cops and the CPS had the 3.26am phone log contents capable of proving this, but withheld it's contents choosing instead to make out a false case, that Jeremy's call to police had taken place at 3.26am, instead of 3.36am, without disclosing the contents of the recorded 3.26am log, only the 3.36am log contents! They relied on a timing mistake, not one of contents - had the contents of both messages (3.26am and 3.36am) been exhibited, the defence would have been able to contend that Neville Bamber had made the 3.26am call to the police by a reliance upon the recorded words contained therein, 'Daughter', etc, as opposed to 'Sheila' or 'Sister'..
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:20:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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yes i supose it could be done but how does jimy bell know jeremys number and what would be his motive for phoning him.

Well, first of all, we don't know that Jeremy and James Bell did not know one another through the farming community! Also, I believe that the Bambers and James Bell were part of 'Maldon fruit and crop growers, Ltd, or whatever - it would be common practice for neighbouring farmers to have eachothers telephone contact information, including secondary numbers where they might be reached in an emergency. I should think if James Bell be the person who phoned Jeremy, that he intended to try and lure him to the farm before the police arrived to shoot him as well..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The other thing worthy of mentioning, was that at the time of the call made to Jeremy, the caller did not identify himself as Neville Bamber, for all we know James Bell could have made that call intending for Jeremy to know that he (James Bell) was at the farm, and that he was simply telling Jeremy that 'Sheila has got the gun, and that she was going crazy'. Jeremy could have mistook James Bell for his dad, something which Jame's Bell had not intended to happen - this would them make some sort of sense around the sighting of the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse, or even the unidentified male who was seen by PC Myall at the scene at 03.45am (was either of these two unidentified males, none other than James Bell)?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:32:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The other thing worthy of mentioning, was that at the time of the call made to Jeremy, the caller did not identify himself as Neville Bamber, for all we know James Bell could have made that call intending for Jeremy to know that he (James Bell) was at the farm, and that he was simply telling Jeremy that 'Sheila has got the gun, and that she was going crazy'. Jeremy could have mistook James Bell for his dad, something which Jame's Bell had not intended to happen - this would them make some sort of sense around the sighting of the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse, or even the unidentified male who was seen by PC Myall at the scene at 03.45am (was either of these two unidentified males, none other than James Bell)?

And then of course, there was the white coloured marina estate vehicle with some ladders strapped onto its roof rack that was seen driving up along Pages Lane at about 9.30pm on the evening of 6th August 1985?

Did James Bell have access to such a vehicle?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Detective Chief Supt' Ainsley was personally involved in all three investigations!

I think that when the nature of the investigation changed after the 1st week in September 1985, and DCS Ainsley took over, that he looked at the possibility of James Bell being Jeremy Bambers accomplice!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Thanks Mike. If Sheila's biological mother or AE were attempting the massacre, wouldn't it take several minutes for Nevill to ring Jeremy ? are you asking me about the passage of time before Neville made his call to Jeremy? Or the duration of the call once he spoke those 11 words to him?

Jeremy did say he was upstairs sleeping 'like a log'. We only have Jeremy's word regarding that / this - but by the same token there is no reliable or meaningful evidence to contradict what he says, or said - if I am wrong no doubt someone will take the opportunity to point this / it out to me!


« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:02:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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And then of course, there was the white coloured marina estate vehicle with some ladders strapped onto its roof rack that was seen driving up along Pages Lane at about 9.30pm on the evening of 6th August 1985?

Did James Bell have access to such a vehicle?

I am also mindful that an eye witness saw a man disposing of a rolled piece of carpet at the spot where Diane Jones remains were eventually found some two weeks or so after her disappearence! The eyewitness took the registration plate details of the vehicle in question but subsequently misplaced or lost it! Surely, the witness knew what make of car it was?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 01:21:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Seems to me Diane Jones demise came about through her becoming pregnant, her killer, had to either be (a) her husband, (b) Paul Barnes her ex lover, or (c) an accomplice of (a) or (b) hired to put her out of her misery (James Bell falls into this latter category) if Bell be Diane Jones murdered, he would not have done it as a hired assassin since he was in no need of money  with him being a millionaire. If Bell was responsible, he did it out of loyalty to one or other of (a) or (b), or for that matter both...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 01:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There were obvious apparent tenuous links between the following persons, and the three murder, and murder / suicide investigations:-

THE HARVEST MURDERS

(1) - the Diane Jones murder (July 1983)

(2) - whf murder / suicide (August 1985)

(3) - Auguste Bell murder and suicide of James Bell (September 1985)


Dr Jones
Diane Jones
Paul Barnes
James Bell
Neville Bamber
June Bamber
Auguste Bell

« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 01:37:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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If James Bell be at the heart of all three of these shooting tragedies, I ponder why he did not shoot dead Sheila Caffell, or the Auguste Bell child?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Thanks Mike. If Sheila's biological mother or AE were attempting the massacre, wouldn't it take several minutes for Nevill to ring Jeremy ? are you asking me about the passage of time before Neville made his call to Jeremy? Or the duration of the call once he spoke those 11 words to him?

Jeremy did say he was upstairs sleeping 'like a log'. We only have Jeremy's word regarding that / this - but by the same token there is no reliable or meaningful evidence to contradict what he says, or said - if I am wrong no doubt someone will take the opportunity to point this / it out to me!


I was ssking how long Nevill will have to wait before Jeremy answered the phone, after Nevill had dialled his number. 

I agree Nevill only said 11 words to Jeremy before hanging up, after Jeremy answered
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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I was ssking how long Nevill will have to wait before Jeremy answered the phone, after Nevill had dialled his number.

I agree Nevill only said 11 words to Jeremy before hanging up, after Jeremy answered

Jeremy wouldn't know, despite him provisionally claiming that he might have answered it immediately - the alternative ( if we proceed in the basis that Jeremy did in fact answer Neville's call)? I don't see how someone can honestly say in those circumstances, that they 'answered the call immediately' - sorry, but from personal experience, I have had people trying to contact me in the middle of the night, for me to be informed, that when I did eventually answer such a call, only to be informed that the person has been trying to contact me for the last 15 minutes, before I actually answered the call..

Therefore, I can't put a period of time, on the delay between when Neville made that call (or anyone purporting to be the caller)...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 03:34:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...