Neville Bamber - he never slept in his bed during night he was shot and killed!

[Steve_uk]

Nevill was asleep downstairs, in a chair, probably after a nightcap.

This may well be true, but it begs the question why Jeremy did not finish him off there and then in the lounge. Assuming Bamber knew his father's sleeping habits was it his original intention to force him by gunpoint to the kitchen telephone, was he going to replace the bedroom telephone after all were killed or did he gamble that nobody would ask where Nevill made the purported call from faced with the fait accompli of Sheila in the master bedroom with the rifle atop of her?

[Adam]

The judge never called his phone called "mysterious".

The only thing that is mysterious is where you got that idea from.


Except Sheila hit with two shots to the jaw that penetrated into the back of his neck and a shot that seperated the bones in his arm.

The fact a gun designed to kill vermin caused a comminuted fracture to his arm and went through his jaw bones and teeth. Leads me to suspect he may have had osteoporosis (weak bones due to old age)

Wilkes's book says 'the third question concerned the mysterious telephone call in the middle of the night'. In the chapter on the judges summing up.

Wilkes's book is unbiased. So doubtful he would start writing the word 'mysterious' over 200 pages in, unless the judge said it.

The judge is perfectly entitled to use that word.

Even the most loyal Bamber supporter will agree Nevill's phone call is the strangest phone call ever.

[Adam]

The judge never called his phone called "mysterious".

The only thing that is mysterious is where you got that idea from.


Except Sheila hit with two shots to the jaw that penetrated into the back of his neck and a shot that seperated the bones in his arm.

The fact a gun designed to kill vermin caused a comminuted fracture to his arm and went through his jaw bones and teeth. Leads me to suspect he may have had osteoporosis (weak bones due to old age)

Well that was Bamber hitting Nevill from close range after catching him by surprise.

An up & awake Nevill will quickly tackle & disarm a woman half his size, holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits. Ringing Jeremy, lol.

[mike tesko]

Thanks Mike. I forgot Nevill was outside when Sheila shot everyone else.

Why did Sheila let Nevill make phone calls when he came inside WHF ? although the police originally thought that Sheila had forced Neville Bamber downstairs at gun point to force him to get Jeremy to come to the farm, they abandoned this idea once the nature of the investigation took another turn at the beginning of September 1985, and onwards! It's not surprising since by November they were adding four spent bullet cases to the main bedroom crime scene (spent cases, DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4) so that by the time the matter came to court, the prosecution could lead with the argument that Neville Bamber could not possibly have spoken to Jeremy or any other person because he had received 4 non fatal shots two of which were to his mouth and his jaw, and therefore he would have not been able to talk or speak, and that this somehow proved that Jeremy had deliberately lied about the telephone call he says he got from his dad! This sipuggestion that Neville had been shot as many as four times non fatally whilst he was present upstairs in the main bedroom cannot be true, since for the first month or so cops believed that Neville had spoken to Jeremy on the telephone! Not only this, but Neville had also spoken to police (3.26am) as well - how could the cops have believed this to be true for longer than a month of so, if they knew from the outset that Neville Bamber had been shot a total of four times earlier upstairs bin his bedroom? They couldn't and they wouldn't have! They only changed their minds once PI Miller instructed DC Hammersley to vacate 4 exhibits listed in his second witness statement and replace these with 4 spent bullet cases. This, by anybodies standards equates to fabricating the evidence, and I am of no doubt that this is what the cops did. They added in 4 spent bullet cases into the main bedroom crime scene, so that the prosecution could argue that Neville Bamber had been shot 4 times before he even reached the kitchen! But, the fact is that he wasn't and he hadn't been shot four times at all already..After killing everyone else, thought she would try to kill him straight away. She had to wait until he was confined to a smaller compact area such as outside the main bedroom door, or the children's bedroom door on the top landing, or as the case may be somewhere on the main stairs either coming up or going down! Catch him by surprise. That is precisely what she did, Adam - she took him by surprise, and knew because she had unplugged the bedroom phone that he would have to either go to the upstairs office, or downstairs to the kitchen to use the only two phones plugged in by that stage to raise the alarm! Sheila knew that there were two ways to get to the upstairs office phone from a starting point of being on the top landing either outside the main bedroom doorway, or alternatively on the top landing outside the children's bedroom doorway, and that was that (a) Neville would have to  go back down the main stairs and through the kitchen and up the back stairs in order to arrive at the upstairs office phone, or (b) enter the upstairs bathroom and remove the panel of the bathroom wall which gave access to an area close to the upstairs office and it's phone! Hence, why she waited either behind her own bedroom door or the latched door at the top of the spiral doorway on the top landing for the right opportunity to shoot at him! Of course, if Neville Bamber had gone back down the main stairs trying to get to the upstairs office phone, hecwoukd have in any event entered the kitchen where there was also a phone plugged in, so no doubt when and if he got as far as the kitchen phone there is every reason to believe that he took that opportunity to make the two telephone calls he made, the first a very brief call to Jeremy ' Sheila's got the gun, she's gone crazy, come quickly', followed almost immediately by his 3.26am call to the police, 'Daughter gone Berserk 'the and ' My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'...]

[mike tesko]

I would certainly tackle Sheila in the situation Nevill was in. yes, but what situation did Neville Bamber find himself in? Had no-one been shot at all by the time Sheila confronted him? Or, had Sheila already killed off her two children and her mum (June)?Prior to any shots being fired yes, I see the point, I agree that if no shots had actually been fired by the time Sheila confronted Neville for the first time with the vermin gun that I would have expected him to confront Sheila, at peril of him being wounded, especially since Neville would have had the safety and well-being of his two grandchildren and his wife on his mind..The only reason I would hesitate is if Sheila had a shot gun. well, that's just it, there had been an altercation with the shotgun late on the previous evening in the kitchen an so far as anybody knows, although Neville Bamber had put the shotgun away in the cupboard of the downstairs office, once he stumbled upon Sheila's handy work (the shooting dead of June and the two children) he might have had it in the back of his mind that Sheila might have recovered the shotgun and be laying in wait somewhere in the farmhouse for him with the shotgun! Hence, why when Neville actually spoke to the police that he told them ' My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', because the shotgun was his gun, not Jeremy's? The anshuzt rifle was Jeremy's ( albeit purchased for him by Neville)...

Sheila having a rifle used for shooting vermin would not stop me protecting the lives of myself & my family. yes, but if your family had already been found shot to death, why would you risk also being shot and killed by the same person responsible for killing your family shortly beforehand? Wouldn't you first of all try to avoid direct contact with someone who has just killed three persons and would you not flee and if possible try to raise the alarm? I personally, in such circumstances would have left the farmhouse and gone to one of the neighbouring farm cottages and raised the alarm there!Nevill would know if Sheila luckily hit him in the torso with one shot, it would be a non fatal wound. that would be assuming that he physically saw her holding the vermin rifle - but Neville could have already made his mind up to get to a telephone asap after discovering the tragic scene and noticing that the bedroom telephone was missing, he could have been on his way down the main stairs without having set his eyes on Sheila, he could have been thinking in the back of his mind that Sheila had retaken possession of the shotgun that she had possession of earlier in the previous evening. As it turns out Sheila managed to get a shot off at him with the vermin rifle whilst he was descending down the main stairs! I believe the bullet fired on that / this occasion was the bullet which struck his arm. Blood which subsequently dripped from the fingers of that wounded arm spilled onto the kitchen floor directly beneath that part of the kitchen worktop and Neville's bloody fingermarks were visibly left on the edge of the worktop at that location - so, we know that Neville was standing there at that part of the kitchen where the phones handset was left off its cradle, because of the presence of those bloody fingermarks and the dripped blood onto the kitchen floor below! Neville was wounded when and by the time he called Jeremy, and then the police at 3.26am..

[mike tesko]

Nevill was asleep downstairs, in a chair, probably after a nightcap.

I believe that upon returning to the farmhouse after taking the tractor to the fields, that Neville undressed downstairs and probably did nod off, like you said after a nightcap and was unaware that his wife and two grandchildren had either already been shot and killed, or that whilst he was a sleep the shooter shot them which caused him to go upstairs to investigate and then discovered that either June had been shot by Sheila, and that Sheila was threatening to kill the children, or whatever, so Neville came back downstairs to try and raise the alarm...

But, Neville Bamber wasn't in bed when the shooter shot June...

[mike tesko]

This may well be true, but it begs the question why Jeremy did not finish him off there and then in the lounge. Assuming Bamber knew his father's sleeping habits Jeremy did know that Neville often did not retire to bed, but that he often nodded off after a tot or two of whiskey either downstairs in the lounge, or upstairs in his office.. was it his original intention to force him by gunpoint to the kitchen telephone, was he going to replace the bedroom telephone after all were killed or did he gamble that nobody would ask where Nevill made the purported call from faced with the fait accompli of Sheila in the master bedroom with the rifle atop of her? there are huge problems with this part of your theorey, since you can't keep ignoring the now known facts, which were deliberately not disclosed by police and prosecution regarding where police had got Sheila's body in different locations inside the farmhouse at different times of the mornings investigation, and simply put this down as an error or a mistake on the part of the police! Police don't make the sort of mistakes we are now dealing with! Sheila's body at one time or another, according to timed police messages, and police officers accounts, downstairs behind the door in the laundry (before the firearm officers entered the premises), Sheila's body was in the kitchen for a period of about half and hour or more between 7.35am and 8.10am, her body was not upstairs at 8.10am. Then her body was upstairs in the main bedroom 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am (declared deceased at this time by Dr Craig), followed by Sheila's body being laid on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber with the rifle resting on the bed in between both bodies, and not only did Sheila only have one bullet wound to her neck at that point, but she had a Bible on her chest, as viewed by DS Jones and DC Clark (9.05am), who in turn recounted what they had seen to Ann Eaton and the other relatives who were gathered at Jeremy's cottage on the first morning of the police investigation, only for the Coroner's Officer, PC Wright (9.30am) to describe seeing Sheila's body laid on the main bedroom floor with two bullet entry wounds to her neck, and the fact that the gun had been removed from her body by this time! So many errors and or mistakes, having been made by the police in this investigation, it simply can't possibly be true that so many significant reports one after the other can be explained away as a mistake on the part of the police! The truth in the matter is that Sheila's body was in all of these different locations and positions in and around the farmhouse, downstairs and upstairs, nobody could make up all these details and try to then explain them all away as errors, or mistakes - Sheila was not dead when the firearms team entered the farmhouse, she wasn't dead when they saw her through the laundry room window on the floor behind the door, she wasn't"t dead downstairs in the kitchen at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, and 7.42am. She hadn't committed suicide downstairs before 7.45am! She was not upstairs at or by 8.10am! She was not dead upstairs at 8.44am, ' on the far side of the bed', and she wasn't dead when Jones and Clark saw her body with a single bullet wound to her neck with her body laid on top of the bed (9.05am), but by 9.30am when the Coroner's Officer, PC Wright saw Sheila's body laid on the main bedroom floor, she was dead - she had received the second fatal shot shortly beforehand! These are not mistakes, these are not errors, this is police corruption at its worst. Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself, and her brother Jeremy Bamber did not kill her (these are facts)!

[Adam]

Thanks for clarifying everything Mike.

[David1819]

Wilkes's book says 'the third question concerned the mysterious telephone call in the middle of the night'. In the chapter on the judges summing up.

Wilkes's book is unbiased. So doubtful he would start writing the word 'mysterious' over 200 pages in, unless the judge said it.

The judge is perfectly entitled to use that word.

Even the most loyal Bamber supporter will agree Nevill's phone call is the strangest phone call ever.

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.

[Steve_uk]

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene, and disappeared, with none having the slightest idea of who it should be, or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise."

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative.

Why would the author be biased if Bamber had initially succeeded in pulling the wool over his eyes? What new developments since the book was written prove his innocence?

[mike tesko]

The Judge only used that word once and it was in the following passage.

"EITHER the defendant or Sheila carried out the killings. hang on a moment, the truth in the matter was that either Sheila or Jeremy shot and killed the others, and that there was no suggestion that anyone else could have been responsible for their deaths - 'their deaths' being the deaths of June Bamber, Daniel and Nicholas Caffell, and Neville Bambers death, the judge can't have been referring to Sheila's death because he is setting out the argument that either Sheila or Jeremy carried out those shootings and killings, otherwise your saying that the trial judge gave a misdirection when he said what he said in his summing up speech to the jury..No-one suggests that there is anyone else who can conceivably have been the guilty party, and we are not concerned with any fanciful imaginations of some mysterious third party having appeared on the scene No, you have got this all wrong, so did the trial judge - try not to overlook the fact that what we know now about concerning the presence of Sheila Caffell's body downstairs in the Laundry room and the kitchen before being declared dead by 8.44am, upstairs 'on the 'far side of the bed', and then upstairs laid on top of the bed 9.05am, before her body ends up on the bedroom floor by 9.30am.., that in the circumstances of Sheila's death there was almost certainly an involvement of a third party in her death, but there was a third party involvement in Sheila Caffell's death, the cops shot her.. there on the main bedroom floor (but cops did shoot her whilst Sheila's body was laid out on the main bedroom floor!)!, and disappeared, again, you are misinformed, since about an hour after the police first arrived at the premises, a scruffy lookingg hunched man was spotted walking away from he farmhouse!with none having the slightest idea of who it should be Cops originally thought this reason could have been or was to be of a minimum value..., Stop, please stop, the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from Whf has nothing to do with the shooting dead of Sheila Caffell.. this is not true, we now know that Essex police were responsible for shooting Sheila Caffell dead once her body had been moved from its position of being laid on top of the bed, on to the bedroom floor! And, yet in the interim period Sheila's dead body was in several locations at different times of the Investigation... or why it should be, and it has not been argued otherwise." the reason it wasn't argued during the trial in October 1986, or at the 2002 appeal was because the cops and the prosecution concealed all the available information and evidence concerning what had really occurred or happened..

PS: Wilkes book is biased and very much out of date. Mike gave Wilkes some material on the the case but Wilkes never bothered to bring it up in the book because it didnt support his narrative. I did provide Roger Wilkes with material from the Bamber files..

[mike tesko]

Why would the author be biased if Bamber had initially succeeded in pulling the wool over his eyes? Jeremy didn't shoot dead his sister,  the only people who are responsible for trying to pull the wool over everybody's eyes during the trial were the solicitors, cops and relatives! What new developments since the book was written prove his innocence? Let's start with (1) Sheila wasn't dead when police looked through the laundry room window and reportedly saw the body of a dead Female (behind the door) and She hadn't committed suicide downstairs in the kitchen by 7.45am..[/list]

[mike tesko]

The distribution of the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases in the three different rooms inside the farmhouse tell a story of their own:-

Main bedroom (2)
Children's bedroom (2)
Kitchen (1)

If the shootings were a one gun crime, the distribution of these 5 double marked bullet cases give an insight into what the shooter did, who she /he targeted, how, when, whereabouts and why?

[mike tesko]

In point of fact, the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases were extracted and ejected from the anshuzt rifle in the following ratio per room inside the farmhouse:-

Main bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item refence numbers of DRH/8 (29), and DRH/43 (44)

Children's bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item reference numbers of DRH/38 (41), and DRH/39 (42)

Kitchen (1) this spent cartridge case had the exhibit defence and Lab' item number of DRH/19 (38)...

[mike tesko]

In point of fact, the 5 double magazine marked bullet cases were extracted and ejected from the anshuzt rifle in the following ratio per room inside the farmhouse:-

Main bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item refence numbers of DRH/8 (29), and DRH/43 (44)

Children's bedroom (2) these two spent cartridge cases had the exhibit and Lab' item reference numbers of DRH/38 (41), and DRH/39 (42)

Kitchen (1) this spent cartridge case had the exhibit defence and Lab' item number of DRH/19 (38)...

If the shooter fired off the first full load of the guns ammunition magazine, the last 5 rounds fired were discharged in the main bedroom (2), the children's room (2) and downstairs in the kitchen (1)...