Author Topic: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two  (Read 58268 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2018, 02:43:PM »

Indeed. Last year Zellner got him to change his story and it all came back to him  ::)

This is from Avery new witness statement from June of last year

"on November 4th, I woke up at 6:00 a.m and went into the bathroom to take a shower. I saw that most of the blood on my sink, which I had not cleaned up the previous night, was gone It seemed to me that the blood had been cleaned up. I did not clean the blood and none of my family members had been in my trailer"

So the police sneeked into his bathroom while he was asleep and extracted his wet blood from his sink (they just happned to know it would be there). They then managed to keep the blood wet until the car was discovered to then plant inside the car.  ::)

Perhaps they added it to a bucket of water?  ::)
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Offline nugnug

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2018, 02:51:PM »

They are arguing for Averys innocence. This man who has his blood inside the victims car, the victims bones hidden behind his property and the murder weapon hanging on his wall.

This is why I am laughing Adam.

i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.

Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2018, 03:30:PM »
i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.

There was a smear of blood near the ignition. Exactly where Steve would have placed his cut right finger had he drove the car! Since this blood was smeared onto the plastic it had to have been wet when it was placed there.

If Steve had left blood on his sink they basically have 15 minutes to steal the blood from his sink and smear it on the car. Even thou they hadn't even discovered the car yet.  :-\

"On December 1, 2016, I was present at Ms . Zellner's law office, where I observed fresh
blood, collected from a volunteer, being dripped into a sink. It is my understanding that
this sink was in the bathroom of Steven Avery's trailer in October and November 2005
and had been removed and transported to Ms. Zellner 's law office. I observed the fresh
blood coagulate and dry. The fresh blood began to dry and coagulate approximately 15
minutes after it was deposited in the sink. At that time, I observed blood flakes begin to
form in the sink. After approximately 28 minutes, all of the blood was dry."



There was also Steve's DNA in her car that did not come from blood. The defence at trial argued that the police used a Saliva swap from Avery that was kept in the Sheriffs office to plant the DNA there.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 07:15:PM by David1819 »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2018, 07:14:PM »
i thought  the blood was on the car door handle i dident know there was any inside the car.

There was NONE on the door handle, NONE on the steering wheel and NONE on the keys. They tried several times to to transfer blood  to the area where it was found in Teresa's car but were unable to. David's post above doesn't take account of the new evidence because he doesn't know it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 07:14:PM by Caroline »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2018, 07:57:PM »
Stuart H. James forensic scientist and bloodstain pattern analyst with James and Associates
Forensic Consultants, Inc. in Fort Lauderdale, Florida states in his sworn affidavit;

OPINIONS REGARDING MS. HALBACH'S RA V-4-IGNITION STAIN

27. Through a series of experiments that I observed, I have concluded to a reasonable degree
of scientific certainty that the distribution of Mr. Avery's blood in various locations in the
passenger compartment of the RA V-4 are not consistent with purposeful behavior. The
prosecution told the jury that all of the blood deposited in the RA V-4 was from the cut on
the middle finger of Mr. Avery's right hand and that he was actively bleeding.
TT:2/12:85. However, there was no blood on the door handle, key, gearshift, interior
hood release, hood latch, hood prop, and battery cable.
28. It is my opinion that Mr. Avery's blood in the RA V-4 is consistent with being randomly
distributed from a source because his blood is present in some locations but absent is
some reasonably anticipated locations, such as those listed in ~ 27. The absence of blood
stains in these locations is inconsistent with an active bleeder.
29. The bloodstains belonging to Mr. Avery are consistent with an explanation other than Mr.
A very being in the RAV -4 and depositing his blood in those locations with his actively
bleeding cut finger. I-lad Mr. A very been actively bleeding in the RA V-4, it is my
opinion that his blood and bloody fingerprints would have been deposited elsewhere in
the vehicle.
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Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2018, 08:30:PM »
There was NONE on the door handle, NONE on the steering wheel and NONE on the keys. They tried several times to to transfer blood  to the area where it was found in Teresa's car but were unable to. David's post above doesn't take account of the new evidence because he doesn't know it.


Why would there be blood on the door handle and steering wheel when the cut is on the upper part of his finger? The part of his finger that is cut is not coming into contact with those areas. If he was cut under his finger then that would be a valid point. But he wasn't.

Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2018, 08:35:PM »
Stuart H. James forensic scientist and bloodstain pattern analyst with James and Associates
Forensic Consultants, Inc. in Fort Lauderdale, Florida states in his sworn affidavit;

OPINIONS REGARDING MS. HALBACH'S RA V-4-IGNITION STAIN

27. Through a series of experiments that I observed, I have concluded to a reasonable degree
of scientific certainty that the distribution of Mr. Avery's blood in various locations in the
passenger compartment of the RA V-4 are not consistent with purposeful behavior. The
prosecution told the jury that all of the blood deposited in the RA V-4 was from the cut on
the middle finger of Mr. Avery's right hand and that he was actively bleeding.
TT:2/12:85. However, there was no blood on the door handle, key, gearshift, interior
hood release, hood latch, hood prop, and battery cable.
28. It is my opinion that Mr. Avery's blood in the RA V-4 is consistent with being randomly
distributed from a source because his blood is present in some locations but absent is
some reasonably anticipated locations, such as those listed in ~ 27. The absence of blood
stains in these locations is inconsistent with an active bleeder.
29. The bloodstains belonging to Mr. Avery are consistent with an explanation other than Mr.
A very being in the RAV -4 and depositing his blood in those locations with his actively
bleeding cut finger. I-lad Mr. A very been actively bleeding in the RA V-4, it is my
opinion that his blood and bloody fingerprints would have been deposited elsewhere in
the vehicle.

Circuit Court Judge has already dismissed this stuff.

"The reports submitted by the defendant are equivocal in their conclusions and do not establish an alternate interpretation of the evidence.  Given the totality of evidence submitted at trial and the ambiguous conclusions as stated in the experts’ reports, it cannot be said that a reasonable probability exists that a different result would be reached at a new trial based on these reports.  As such, the defendant has not met his burden in order to obtain a new trial."

Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2018, 09:44:PM »
Circuit Court Judge has already dismissed this stuff.

"The reports submitted by the defendant are equivocal in their conclusions and do not establish an alternate interpretation of the evidence.  Given the totality of evidence submitted at trial and the ambiguous conclusions as stated in the experts’ reports, it cannot be said that a reasonable probability exists that a different result would be reached at a new trial based on these reports.  As such, the defendant has not met his burden in order to obtain a new trial."



At his trial the defence argued that Bobby Dassey could be the killer and that the police planted the blood from his 1996 blood tube and DNA from his 2003 Saliva swab. Because they jumped to the conclusion it was Steve Avery.

A re-trail would be much of the same except that someone took blood from his sink (withing 15 minutes of him bleeding in the sink) and planted it inside the car in that short time-frame. This whole argument rests on the Stevens recent claims that he noticed blood missing from the sink. Can you expect a reasonable jury to believe this combined with all the circumstancial evidence against him?

Furthermore an expert did testify at his trial that the bloodstain came from a finger.


"Q. And this -- I would like to ask you whether you
have an opinion, to a reasonable degree of
scientific certainty, whether this cut to the
hand is consistent with being the bloody object
that came in contact with the dashboard, by the
ignition switch of the RAV4?
Could the bloodstain that you
observed on the dashboard of Teresa Halbach's
RAV4, have come from a cut to a finger?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Stahlke, could you explain, what is
your experience with examining
contact transfer bloodstains.
A. Contact transfer bloodstains is a -- it can be a
transfer of a pattern. You can see in some
stains the outline of a particular -- of the
particular item that is bloody contacting a --
the unstained surface. And in some cases, you
can see the pattern or detail from the bloodied
item that has been transferred, then, onto an
unstained surface.
Q. And have you been to crime scenes and examined
contact transfer stains?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Do you know how many you have been to?
A. Well, I have been to approximately 200 field
responses. Of those, then, over 100 crime
scenes. And in every scene that has blood
present, I examine the stains to determine
whether or not there would be any additional
information that would be gained from those
stains that would be helpful in this
investigation."


I cant see a re-trial having a different outcome than the last.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2018, 10:09:PM »

At his trial the defence argued that Bobby Dassey could be the killer and that the police planted the blood from his 1996 blood tube and DNA from his 2003 Saliva swab. Because they jumped to the conclusion it was Steve Avery.

A re-trail would be much of the same except that someone took blood from his sink (withing 15 minutes of him bleeding in the sink) and planted it inside the car in that short time-frame. This whole argument rests on the Stevens recent claims that he noticed blood missing from the sink. Can you expect a reasonable jury to believe this combined with all the circumstancial evidence against him?

Furthermore an expert did testify at his trial that the bloodstain came from a finger.


"Q. And this -- I would like to ask you whether you
have an opinion, to a reasonable degree of
scientific certainty, whether this cut to the
hand is consistent with being the bloody object
that came in contact with the dashboard, by the
ignition switch of the RAV4?
Could the bloodstain that you
observed on the dashboard of Teresa Halbach's
RAV4, have come from a cut to a finger?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Stahlke, could you explain, what is
your experience with examining
contact transfer bloodstains.
A. Contact transfer bloodstains is a -- it can be a
transfer of a pattern. You can see in some
stains the outline of a particular -- of the
particular item that is bloody contacting a --
the unstained surface. And in some cases, you
can see the pattern or detail from the bloodied
item that has been transferred, then, onto an
unstained surface.
Q. And have you been to crime scenes and examined
contact transfer stains?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Do you know how many you have been to?
A. Well, I have been to approximately 200 field
responses. Of those, then, over 100 crime
scenes. And in every scene that has blood
present, I examine the stains to determine
whether or not there would be any additional
information that would be gained from those
stains that would be helpful in this
investigation."


I cant see a re-trial having a different outcome than the last.

It doesn't really matter where he said the blood came from, that could never be proven. However, a blood pattern expert has stated that he doesn't believe that blood could have gotten inside the car from his cut finger and as to your comment about the cut being on top, blood is liquid, it flows and as such, doesn't stay on top. Even if Avery is guilty, there is something wrong with the evidence THAT is the point!
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Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2018, 11:02:PM »
It doesn't really matter where he said the blood came from, that could never be proven. However, a blood pattern expert has stated that he doesn't believe that blood could have gotten inside the car from his cut finger and as to your comment about the cut being on top, blood is liquid, it flows and as such, doesn't stay on top. Even if Avery is guilty, there is something wrong with the evidence THAT is the point!

And a expert at trial said he believe's the stain did come from a finger. There is already counter expert evidence to refute the guy you are quoting.

If Avery is guilty, the blood got there from him driving the victims car. Its really that simple.

The picture I have attached is from a news clip the day the car was found. Here you can see the cut that Avery how claims is the source for all the blood he that he allegedly left in his sink less than 48 hours ago. It looks rather healed to me  :-\


Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2018, 11:39:PM »
And a expert at trial said he believe's the stain did come from a finger. There is already counter expert evidence to refute the guy you are quoting.

If Avery is guilty, the blood got there from him driving the victims car. Its really that simple.

The picture I have attached is from a news clip the day the car was found. Here you can see the cut that Avery how claims is the source for all the blood he that he allegedly left in his sink less than 48 hours ago. It looks rather healed to me  :-\

What guy? Trouble is David, you never provide links to these kind of claims - I guess you think your word is good enough - I don't

You saying it's that simple means absolutely nothing. The second series showed the blood spatter expert trying to recreate the stain, he couldn't and no matter how you play it down, if you cut your finger the blood flows from it it's doesn't just stay in the area of the cut so there would be blood at least on the steering wheel and the keys.

It looks healed to you - it looks healed to me because it isn't bleeding but that doesn't mean it was. Cuts can reopen and that one looks quite deep.
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Offline David1819

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2018, 12:30:AM »
What guy? Trouble is David, you never provide links to these kind of claims - I guess you think your word is good enough - I don't

You saying it's that simple means absolutely nothing. The second series showed the blood spatter expert trying to recreate the stain, he couldn't and no matter how you play it down, if you cut your finger the blood flows from it it's doesn't just stay in the area of the cut so there would be blood at least on the steering wheel and the keys.

It looks healed to you - it looks healed to me because it isn't bleeding but that doesn't mean it was. Cuts can reopen and that one looks quite deep.

I have posted the relevant part of the trial transcript of the expert I am talking about. The series is very dishonest and one sided. They could have interviewed  the expert at trial that disagrees with them (I am assuming they didn’t) because they only show you what they want to show.

Did you know that Avery was happy to take a polygraph test to prove his innocence over the rape case? He passed the test.

He also told detective’s that he was happy to take a polygraph test to “prove” he didn't kill Teresa. Yet to this day he has avoided taking one. How comes?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2018, 01:21:AM »
I have posted the relevant part of the trial transcript of the expert I am talking about. The series is very dishonest and one sided. They could have interviewed  the expert at trial that disagrees with them (I am assuming they didn’t) because they only show you what they want to show.

Did you know that Avery was happy to take a polygraph test to prove his innocence over the rape case? He passed the test.

He also told detective’s that he was happy to take a polygraph test to “prove” he didn't kill Teresa. Yet to this day he has avoided taking one. How comes?

You haven't posted a link so that people can read it themselves or named the expert in question. What trial are you talking about? There hasn't been a recent trial and Stuart James (the blood expert I quoted) has only recently carried out experiments to try and recreate the stain on the dashboard. His affidavit wasn't available at the trial.

Yes, I did know about the polygraph and although he passed, it didn't affect the outcome so taking one now would be risky. They don't measure truth telling just heart rate and galvanic skin response - in other words 'stress'.

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2018, 10:41:AM »
if brenden daseys  confesion is genuine shouldent his dna be there as well.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 12:46:PM by nugnug »

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix) Series Two
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2018, 12:05:PM »
if brenden daseys  confesion is genuine should his dna be there as well.

it should be , along with all the DNA from the bedroom where a supposed rape and torture took place including stabbing TH in the stomach and cutting her throat, not one iota of her blood was found there  ::)