Author Topic: The telephone off the hook  (Read 1790 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2018, 07:55:PM »
No you are assuming he would have a timed delayed answering machine on 24/7 way back in 1985. To make an argument fit.

What an earth is that ? 

Bamber's answering machine would be on 24/7. 

Which means Nevill either left a message while Bamber slept upstairs. Or Nevill didn't call.


'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2018, 08:24:PM »

Do we know what make model of phone and answering machine he had?

Yes, I have the details in one of the police logs which deals with all the exhibits in the three investigations, (1) the drug operation, (2) four murders and a suicide, and (3) five murders, I will try and locate the information overnight, I won't be sleeping to night much in any event..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2018, 08:33:PM »
I have already provided a source that Bamber had an answering machine. It would be on 24/7. we don't know that Jeremy's answer machine was switched on 24/7

So Bamber only had 5-10 seconds to answer Nevill's call. Nobody can say how many seconds had passed before Jeremy woke up and answered the call, he could have awoken on the first ring and answered the phone quickly!Or no seconds if the phone went straight to answer machine, as you suggested.  my understanding from Jeremy was that he could answer a call through his answer machine, but that he could not dial out from it. I need to find his letters where he mentions something in them about his answer machine on his bedside cabinet and the five audio tapes the cops seized...

It would have taken him several minutes to wake, realise the phone was ringing, decide to answer it & go downstairs. I don't necessarily agree with that, he could have awoken on the first ring and been out of bed and answering the phone in seconds, we will never know

So no call was made by Nevill. I disagree, I believe Neville did make the call to Jeremy, and I believe that Neville then went on to make his 3.26am call to the police as per the 3.26am phone log. There had to be a call from the scene to Jeremy's cottage no matter on who's side anybody is on, or what corner anyone is fighting on behalf of - without a call from white house farm to Jeremy's cottage, there was either
no attack upon Neville Bamber which cost him  his life after he had been using the telephone, or if Jeremy was the killer he must have been a complete fool to make up a story about receiving a call from his father if his father hadn't made such a call! At the very least I feel we can all be reassured in the knowledge that there must have been a call from A to B, whether Neville made that call, or the call was made by someone else purporting to be him, is another matter!


There either had to be someone back at Jeremy's cottage, (Jeremy himself, or some other person), to answer the call from white house farm, or the answer machine and the phone were unplugged and switched off and the person phoning from the Farmhouse was using the digital Statesman telephone with its last number dialled recall facility...

I can't believe that if Jeremy had been the killer, that he had phoned his own Cottage using the round finger dial phone which didn't have a last number dialled facility and which was normally plugged in upstairs in the main bedroom so to speak! Why would Jeremy unplug the statesman digital phone which was normally plugged in at the kitchen socket that would have helped to provide him with an alibi, and in its place, bring the round finger dial phone, downstairs after unplugging it, in at the kitchen socket? Surely he would have realised that the police would pick up on the fact that somebody had unplugged two different phones in two different parts of the house, hid one, and plugged the second one in at the socket where the first phone was normally plugged in, an activity which does nothing to advance Jeremy's alibi?

No, not only would June know which telephone she used that evening at about 10.00pm when she spoke with her sister Pamela Boutflour, and whether or not it was the statesman telephone she had used on that occasion, but when she went upstairs to bed she would surely have noticed if the round finger dial phone which was normally plugged in at the bedroom socket was missing or not? Similarly, at around 9.30pm when the farm secretary spoke to Neville Bamber on the telephone, he too would have known whether or not he used the statesman telephone in the kitchen, or the round finger dial phone in the bedroom, or the kitchen..

I can't see how Jeremy could have manipulated any of the telephones inside the farmhouse, and set them up with the handset of the round finger dial phone off its cradle plugged in at the kitchen socket because that doesn't help Jeremy with his alibi, it's as though if Jeremy is the killer, he wouldn't want to be able to prove that he received a call from his father, when all along that was the very reason why Jeremy tried to telephone Witham police station, and subsequently spoke to PC West at Chelmsford police station...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 09:07:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2018, 08:46:PM »
What an earth is that ?

Bamber's answering machine would be on 24/7.

Which means Nevill either left a message while Bamber slept upstairs. Or Nevill didn't call.


The evidence pointing to Sheila's culpability is in itself evidence that JB either picked up the phone in time or had the answering machine off one way or the other.

The evidence of Sheila's culpability is challenged only by hypothetical arguments that have little credulity. Assuming JB would have his answer machine on and then assume he wont wake in time does not in anyway turn the hypothesis into a factual event. It does not even increase the likleyhood of the hypothesis being true. That can only be done by facts and not assumptions.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 08:47:PM by David1819 »
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline Caroline

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2018, 08:48:PM »

The evidence pointing to Sheila's culpability is in itself evidence that JB either picked up the phone in time or had the answering machine off one way or the other.

The evidence of Sheila's culpability is challenged only by hypothetical arguments that have little credulity. Assuming JB would have his answer machine on and then assume he wont wake in time does not in anyway turn the hypothesis into a factual event. It does not even increase the likleyhood of the hypothesis being true. That can only be done by facts and not assumptions.

What evidence?

Offline Adam

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2018, 08:58:PM »

The evidence pointing to Sheila's culpability is in itself evidence that JB either picked up the phone in time or had the answering machine off one way or the other.

The evidence of Sheila's culpability is challenged only by hypothetical arguments that have little credulity. Assuming JB would have his answer machine on and then assume he wont wake in time does not in anyway turn the hypothesis into a factual event. It does not even increase the likleyhood of the hypothesis being true. That can only be done by facts and not assumptions.

Of course he wouldn't be 'awoken' from 'sleeping like a log', decide to answer the phone & go to the 'kitchen', within 5-10 seconds.

Of course he left his answering machine on 24/7. Everyone always has. There is no reason to turn it off.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2018, 09:09:PM »
Of course he wouldn't be 'awoken' from 'sleeping like a log', decide to answer the phone & go to the 'kitchen', within 5-10 seconds.

Of course he left his answering machine on 24/7. Everyone always has. There is no reason to turn it off.
'everyone' always hasn't!  We switched our answer phones on and off in the 80s.  On when out, on if unable to answer phone when in, otherwiise usually off

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2018, 09:14:PM »
Of course he wouldn't be 'awoken' from 'sleeping like a log', decide to answer the phone & go to the 'kitchen', within 5-10 seconds.

Of course he left his answering machine on 24/7. Everyone always has. There is no reason to turn it off.

The fact that Jeremy (let's say) did have his answer phone on 24/7, or as the case may be, at the time that Neville Bamber decided to call him, and the fact that the police found no evidence that there had been a recording of such a call on those audio tapes belonging to the answer machine, it must surely only mean if there had been such a call, that Jeremy in fact had responded to Neville's call before the automatic recording of his answer machine kicked in, otherwise, there would have been found some audio evidence in one form or another on the five tapes which the cops took along with his machine. As far as I know they didn't"t take Jeremy's telephone as well..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2018, 09:19:PM »
'everyone' always hasn't!  We switched our answer phones on and off in the 80s.  On when out, on if unable to answer phone when in, otherwiise usually off

Of course no one turns an answering machine off & on. They are just as useful when people are at home.

You know Nevill would not ring to leave a message. And even if he did, know Bamber would not wake prior to an answering machine being switched on.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2018, 09:20:PM »
Mike has already said Bamber left his answering machine phone on 24/7.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2018, 09:32:PM »
Right, since no-one taken me up on the challenge I set earlier in this thread, concerning the possibility that Jeremy could have been involved in the changing state of the farmhouse telephone line at around 5.55am, at which stage the phone had been in an off the hook state of play, but the line had mysteriously become engaged at around 5.55pm and that it might have been he (Jeremy)who was responsible for causing this / that as well as it being he who had dialled '999' to summons ambulances to the incident!

I'm not suggesting that he did, but at around 5.30am, a police officer took Jeremy to a nearby village pay phone box so that he could phone his girlfriend. Well it remains a possibility that one or two things happenned at the time he talked to Julie Mugford' and she to him! Either after talking to Julie, Jeremy had phoned white house farm from the phone box which to him resulted in a constant engaged tone which could have been picked up by the operator because of a drop in the voltage or an increase in voltage, which may have been followed up on by Jeremy dialling '999' requesting ambulances. It might have been the sudden change in the state of the line at white house farm, from originally being in a state 'off the hook', into 'an engaged tone', which caused the operator to patch the line to and from white house farm through to the control room at Chelmsford police station, without anyone inside the farmhouse touching or using any of the telephones...

I'm just saying that's all..
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 09:34:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2018, 09:38:PM »

I'm just saying that's all..

Another alternative cause could have involved someone who was still alive inside the farmhouse, unplugging the two phones (one in kitchen, one in bedroom), and plugging the one which had been unplugged upstairs in the bedroom into the kitchen socket downstairs, whilst discarding the Statesman digital phone in the kitchen - the state of the line could have become altered in these circumstances..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2018, 09:44:PM »
Right, since no-one taken me up on the challenge I set earlier in this thread, concerning the possibility that Jeremy could have been involved in the changing state of the farmhouse telephone line at around 5.55am, at which stage the phone had been in an off the hook state of play, but the line had mysteriously become engaged at around 5.55pm and that it might have been he (Jeremy)who was responsible for causing this / that as well as it being he who had dialled '999' to summons ambulances to the incident!

I'm not suggesting that he did, but at around 5.30am, a police officer took Jeremy to a nearby village pay phone box so that he could phone his girlfriend. Well it remains a possibility that one or two things happenned at the time he talked to Julie Mugford' and she to him! Either after talking to Julie, Jeremy had phoned white house farm from the phone box which to him resulted in a constant engaged tone which could have been picked up by the operator because of a drop in the voltage or an increase in voltage, which may have been followed up on by Jeremy dialling '999' requesting ambulances. It might have been the sudden change in the state of the line at white house farm, from originally being in a state 'off the hook', into 'an engaged tone', which caused the operator to patch the line to and from white house farm through to the control room at Chelmsford police station, without anyone inside the farmhouse touching or using any of the telephones...

I'm just saying that's all..

The tones for engaged and off the hook were the same.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2018, 09:50:PM »
The tones for engaged and off the hook were the same.

archives archives@bt.com
To   
Caroline,

In 1985 Maldon exchange was still an electro-mechanical exchange (Strowger). With this type of exchange a caller would receive engaged tone if the telephone was on a call or just off hook.


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Offline David1819

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2018, 11:25:PM »
What evidence?


Seriosly? Every time you have to make something fit its because of evidence showing Sheila was the shooter.

The scene of crime and all the details around it is evidence and always will be. Insisting that the Jeremy made it all look that way in a hypothetical scenario does not nullify the scene for what it is.

Why do you think RWB came up with the idea that Jeremy gave Sheila the gun and told her to shoot herself? Why did Bernard Knight said it would be extrodinary to stage a suicide like this without the victim objecting? Because the evidence shows she shot herself. The evidence is so great even guilters resort to a senario where Sheila is a willing participant in staging her own death as suicicde but under orders from Jeremy. These stupid theories are a result of the evidence of Sheila's involment.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:25:PM by David1819 »
"A theory without facts is fantasy"