Author Topic: The telephone off the hook  (Read 3637 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13540
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2018, 12:03:PM »

I try very hard to only give my own opinions...................and even harder to prevent my statements from sweeping ;D
I'm sure you do and I was commenting on a particular post from Adam.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2018, 01:05:PM »
Unfortunately, you have no proof that answering machinrs are left on 24/7.'.back in 1985 Mine certainly wasn't.  If you were in and available to answer your phone it was switched off as so annoying to not answer before the machine kicked in.  Sometimes you would forget to switch it on at night or choose not to.

Answering machines are left on 24/7. You know this.

The CT must make a statement on how Bamber answered his phone within 10 seconds & on why Nevill wanted to leave a message on Bamber's answering machine.

Bamber has said himself he had one downstairs phone & he was 'awoken' from sleeping 'like a log''
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2018, 01:10:PM »
Mike said Bamber had an answering machine. I also found a source for this yesterday.

Bamber has never said he turned his answering machine off when arriving back at his cottage. He wouldn't as no one ever would.

The CT must explain how something that would take several minutes, took less than 10 seconds - answering Nevill's call.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 01:29:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2018, 01:23:PM »
Bamber has said what he did when arriving back at his cottage -

Rang Julie (although cannot remember the conversation).

Watched TV. About skin heads.

Didn't eat.

Had a bath.

Went to bed.

His answering machine would have been on all day while he was at WHF. He would not turn it off if he was going straight to bed & back to work first thing in the morning. No one would & he has never said he did.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13540
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2018, 02:26:PM »
Answering machines are left on 24/7. You know this.

The CT must make a statement on how Bamber answered his phone within 10 seconds & on why Nevill wanted to leave a message on Bamber's answering machine.

Bamber has said himself he had one downstairs phone & he was 'awoken' from sleeping 'like a log''
Adam, my answer machine was not switched on 24 hours a day. Back then things were very different. I was simply pointing out that you had made a sweeping statement, I was not trying to prove anything else. It was a statement of facr, that is all

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2018, 07:33:AM »
Answering machines are just as useful when the person is at home.

A person could be sleeping, in the shower, cooking, with company, vaccumming, watching television, playing loud music, in the garden, under a sun bed or simply not want to talk to anyone. So it would be on 24/7.

Bamber said he had a bath & went to bed. The perfect times to have his answering machine on.

The CT need to explain how he was 'awoken' from sleeping 'like a log' & got to the 'downstairs kitchen phone' within 10 seconds, rather than 3 minutes. As well as why Nevill wanted to leave a message on Bamber's answering machine.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2018, 08:14:AM »
It has to be assummed that Bamber's phone was very loud & both the bedroom & kitchen doors were open. Otherwise he would not hear the phone, even if awake.

Nevill would not know what doors were open/closed & had rang at 3am to leave a message, although that was not going to assist him at WHF.

Hopefully Mike or the CT can explain how Bamber got to the phone before the answering machine came on & Nevill could leave his message on it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 08:16:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13540
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2018, 11:46:AM »
It has to be assummed that Bamber's phone was very loud & both the bedroom & kitchen doors were open. Otherwise he would not hear the phone, even if awake.

Nevill would not know what doors were open/closed & had rang at 3am to leave a message, although that was not going to assist him at WHF.

Hopefully Mike or the CT can explain how Bamber got to the phone before the answering machine came on & Nevill could leave his message on it.
I am not sure, can't remember but I think there was a choice of length of time before an answer phone cut in.  Unless we know the interval before his answer phone cut in it is difficult to judge whether he did have time to wake and answer the phone if the answer phone was switched on.
 I believe his cottage was tiny and his bedroom was at the top of the stairs and the phone at the bottom. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:48:AM by maggie »

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20570
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2018, 01:07:PM »
I am not sure, can't remember but I think there was a choice of length of time before an answer phone cut in.  Unless we know the interval before his answer phone cut in it is difficult to judge whether he did have time to wake and answer the phone if the answer phone was switched on.
 I believe his cottage was tiny and his bedroom was at the top of the stairs and the phone at the bottom.

You can choose the amount of rings before an answering machine starts. Suspect this will always be between 3-8 rings. If it is much more, the caller would have hung up before the answering machine starts.

This gives Bamber between 5-10 seconds.

Bamber's own evidence that he 'slept like a log', waa 'awoken' by the call & the phone was downstairs 'in the kitchen' makes it impossible he answered the phone within 5-10 seconds.



« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 01:08:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47499
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2018, 03:57:PM »
You can choose the amount of rings before an answering machine starts. Suspect this will always be between 3-8 rings. If it is much more, the caller would have hung up before the answering machine starts.

This gives Bamber between 5-10 seconds.

Bamber's own evidence that he 'slept like a log', waa 'awoken' by the call & the phone was downstairs 'in the kitchen' makes it impossible he answered the phone within 5-10 seconds.
Which phone was down stairs?

His house phone, or his answer phone?

Please direct me to the source of evidence where you got this information from, because it's news to me, and if Iv'e missed something as fundamental a fact as this I want my head chopping off..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47499
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2018, 04:27:PM »
Which phone was down stairs?

His house phone, or his answer phone?

Please direct me to the source of evidence where you got this information from, because it's news to me, and if Iv'e missed something as fundamental a fact as this I want my head chopping off..

As far as I am aware there was no mention of where the telephone handset that Jeremy picked up when Neville made his call to him that morning was located, at least not in either of the two witness statements he made to police, one dated 7 August 1985, the other dated 8 August 1985, but if I have missed it, apologies would be in order! I also do not believe that Jeremy was asked during his police interviews where his phones were kept at his cottage, and as far as I can recollect Jeremy didn't offer this information to them? That's my recollection of the location of the phones at Jeremy's cottage, and why I asked him whereabouts these phones were? I am sure Jeremy told me the phone he answered was on his bedside cabinet, but he could have been referring to his answer phone machine - I think he mentions something regarding these matters in one of the hundreds of letters I used to get from him, I will keep me eye out for mention of it when I have a peep into the files in my possession...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6503
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2018, 04:28:PM »
You can choose the amount of rings before an answering machine starts. Suspect this will always be between 3-8 rings. If it is much more, the caller would have hung up before the answering machine starts.

This gives Bamber between 5-10 seconds.

Bamber's own evidence that he 'slept like a log', waa 'awoken' by the call & the phone was downstairs 'in the kitchen' makes it impossible he answered the phone within 5-10 seconds.

From what I can recall. There were no rings at all. When I was a kid my parents would turn the answer machine on when ever we left the house then off when we got back. The answer machine would take the call imediatley and record the message. I now remember thinking back you would call people and get the answer message as soon as the connection was made. Answer machines were important until mobile phones and internet went mainstream. Because your house number was all you had and people often went out like always.



"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6503
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2018, 04:43:PM »
Hopefully Mike or the CT can explain how Bamber got to the phone before the answering machine came on & Nevill could leave his message on it.


I think there is a misunderstanding here. If the police were looking at JBs answer machine audio tapes for "Nevills Call" that means they are looking for a short blank audio message. In order to try and explain any electronic proof of a call made from WHF to JB.


Anyway until Mike uploads any documented evidence of the police doing there is not much point talking about it.

 
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47499
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2018, 04:52:PM »
I must admit I was more interested in the answer machine and the possibility that there could be some evidence contained on one of the five audio tapes, which the police had seized from his cottage in September 1985...

If Jeremy I've been at the Farmhouse and had made the call to himself, that is to his Cottage, the answer phone would have been activated had it been switched on. There would in those circumstances have been an audio recording of the phone call. Unless, of course, had Jeremy been the Killer, and he had intended to rely upon the last number dial facility on the digital phone which was normally plugged in at the kitchen socket! The only other alternative, would be was that with Jeremy at the Farmhouse making the call to his own Cottage at Goldhanger, there was someone else back at his Cottage who lifted the receiver of the telephone there off its cradle as if to answer the call. But, it would have been far easier for him had he been the killer, simply to unplug his home phone and switch off his answer machine before returning to the farmhouse to kill everybody, and leave the digital statesman phone that was normally plugged in at the kitchen socket back at White house farm (with its last number dialled facility), and he simply dial his own number and leave the handset off its cradle!

But...

The round finger dial telephone appears to have been plugged in at the kitchen socket, and I can't see any possibility of Jeremy simply dialling his own house number using that phone, either with his phone and answer machine disconnected, or not because with the round finger dial phone having no last number dialled facility it would have been of no use to him! And, besides Jeremy would then need to get back to his cottage, get cleaned up and make his unanswered call back to the farmhouse, but in order for him to do this he would have needed to tap the cradle and get a dialing tone on the kitchen phone at the scene, so that by the time he returned to his cottage, he could try to ring whf back only to get a constant engaged tone!

But, surely that would have been pushing his luck too far, don't you think?

Yes, Jeremy could then go through his script and try to contact the police at Witham and if there had been someone there, he could have told them his prepared script and sent them scurrying to white house farm, but as luck would have it Witham police station was unmanned when he tried to contact them because PS Bews, PS Saxby and PC Myalls we're currently engaged in other duties away from the police station at that time, so Jeremy phoned Julie and she told him to go back to bed, and after which Jeremy spent five minutes or so, looking up the telephone number to Chelmsford police station, and he spoke to PC West at 3.36am...

But...

Remember, there was Neville Bambers call to the police at 3.26am...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 04:59:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47499
Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2018, 05:05:PM »
But...

Remember, there was Neville Bambers call to the police at 3.26am...

Someone would need to still be present at the scene to speak the words attributed to Neville Bamber from 3.26am, onward - how long did that call last? Close examination of that phone log record does not make any mention that the call had been cut off, there is only an addendum message added later on, to the effect that the son of Mr Bamber had telephoned the police etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, and that the line or the phone had gone dead. So, this throws up another spanner in the works, was the call made by Neville Bamber to police at 3.26am, terminated, or not?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 05:06:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...