Author Topic: The telephone off the hook  (Read 4783 times)

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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #135 on: October 14, 2018, 11:19:AM »
Ian Manley, BT engineer, pictured here with Jeremy Bamber
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:20:AM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #136 on: October 14, 2018, 11:27:AM »

Bottom line is there's sod all squared they could do about it. Their job is to defend. It really doesn't matter whether the defendant is guilty or innocent. They're entitled to be defended. I'll bet there aren't many who'd admit guilt to the person whose job it is to get them off.....................and I'll bet that NO barrister/solicitor will ask the question.

Where a defendant admits his / her guilt to a solicitor or an advocate and decides to please not guilty the solicitor or advocate cannot and will not represent that defendant in any court proceedings!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:27:AM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #137 on: October 14, 2018, 11:30:AM »

Rather like the above then, Maggie, eh?

Jeremy was under surveillance by the drugs squad at the time of the shootings, that surveillance included visual observations by the drugs squad, telephone tapping, and use of electronic devices which included a tracking device that cops fitted to Jeremy's astra motor vehicle!
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #138 on: October 14, 2018, 11:34:AM »

Vanezis didn't visit the scene and stated that had he done so, he'd have had reservations

https://listverse.com/2013/07/20/10-devastatingly-deceptive-or-bizarre-animal-mimics/

Venezis did eventually attend white housefarm, when DS Jones vented his suspicions about Jeremy Bamber...
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #139 on: October 14, 2018, 11:43:AM »
The only ways that anybody could override the negative / positive conditions which permitted or restricted access to an operator of a phone line, was when the telephone line was being constantly monitored under a telecommunications act warrant, or when a BT engineer was working on a junction box, and he was testing a particular line, or a number of telephone lines fed from and to a particular junction box the type that you tended to find located on pavements at roadside or in the street - all these junction boxes were linked to the nearest local exchange, which used metering to help in calculating individual phone bills where one unit of call time had a value, dependant upon day time, evening, week-end and international call rates!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:54:AM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #140 on: October 14, 2018, 12:16:PM »
Ian Manley told me that he knew a retired BT engineer who worked specifically on work and maintenance which needed to be carried out in local exchanges of the type used to calculate a customer's bills using the old metering system (the forerunner to itemised billings)! Through this introduction it soon became apparent that if necessary, the police / powers that be could break a customer's uses of each and every unit of call time, so that the length and duration of individual calls could be identified, that had been made, from (in particular), a customer's telephone line! It was possible to do this I was told because in the banks of technology at these old fashioned exchanges, a unit of a customer's call time was registered via the Meter, by measuring periods of voltages recorded whenever a customer made a day time call, an cheap rate evening call, a week-end call, or an international calls. Apparently differently detected and recorded voltages became stockpiled in the memory of the meters.as a result a trained engineer could pinpoint or identify the duration of all calls which had been made at a particular time of day, evening or week-end etc...

Well. Of course was all very interesting to me, since here was an opportunity for the police to be able to prove, or to disprove that Neville Bamber had made that viral telephone call to Jeremy during the cheap rate period ( middle of the night on the 7 August 1985)?  And, as it now turns out a second call from Neville Bamber, from the farmhouse to the police at Chelmsford at 3.26am..

We know that it was not possible to be able to find out the actual timing all these individual calls which could have been extracted at the local exchange if necessary could not give or provide a date when such a call, or a series of calls had actually been made, but this is where other factors might come into play - for example, the timing of police logs kept by Essex police...

Now, to somebody like myself, I could this all very intriguing...

Since, after discovering the existence of two police phone message logs, one timed at 3.26am, and another timed at 3.36am, I was interested in trying to discover the duration of the two logs in question, because I rather fancied the possibility of being able to discern one of these calls (in length) from the other, or and vice versa!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:17:PM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #141 on: October 14, 2018, 12:19:PM »
Quote from: mike tesko link=topic=9707.msg447737#msg447737

Since, after discovering the existence of two police phone message logs, one timed at 3.26am, and another timed at 3.36am, I was interested in trying to discover the duration of the two logs in question, because I rather fancied the possibility of being able to discern one of these calls (in length) from the other, or and vice versa!
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #142 on: October 14, 2018, 12:23:PM »


How, would somebody like me, go about determining the length of either of these two phone calls made to police, one timed as commencing from 3.26am, the other commencing at 3.36am, and determine the significance in both of these calls, in such a way that it must be accepted that both of these calls were not brought to life as part of some misunderstanding between PC West and Malcolm Bonnet? But rather, that one of these two calls had been made to police by Neville Bamber, whilst the latter one was made by Jeremy Bamber himself, 10 minutes later?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:25:PM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #143 on: October 14, 2018, 12:33:PM »
How, would somebody like me, go about determining the length of either of these two phone calls made to police, one timed as commencing from 3.26am, the other commencing at 3.36am, and determine the significance in both of these calls, in such a way that it must be accepted that both of these calls were not brought to life as part of some misunderstanding between PC West and Malcolm Bonnet? But rather, that one of these two calls had been made to police by Neville Bamber, whilst the latter one was made by Jeremy Bamber himself, 10 minutes later?

Well, consider the following known about, and accepted facts...

Jeremy complained about the length of time it was taking police to deal with his phone call to them, and that it took all of 9 minutes, for the police to eventually tell him that he should go straight to the farmhouse where he would be met by the police who had already been deployed to the incident!

Well, Jeremy was still on the phone to PC West at the time the operator (OC West) spoke to the operator at 3.42am requesting that the line at white house farm be checked because when PC West had tried to ring it the line had been engaged, just like Jeremy Bamber had said it was after his cut short phone call from his father!

So, what I decided to do was to lay out these known facts against the timings of the two specifically timed messages (3.26am and 3.36am, respectively)..
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:41:PM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #144 on: October 14, 2018, 12:46:PM »

So, what I decided to do was to lay out these known facts against the timings of the two specifically timed messages (3.26am and 3.36am, respectively)..

At the heart of this 'TEST' was the 3.42am time that PC West had contacted the operator to ask her to check the line at white house farm?

1st phone Call - 3.26am, PC West call to operator at 3.42am (16 minutes)

2nd phone call - 3.36am, PC West call to operator at 3.42am (6 minutes)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:47:PM by mike tesko »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2018, 12:53:PM »
At the heart of this 'TEST' was the 3.42am time that PC West had contacted the operator to ask her to check the line at white house farm?

1st phone Call - 3.26am, PC West call to operator at 3.42am (16 minutes)

2nd phone call - 3.36am, PC West call to operator at 3.42am (6 minutes)

Jeremy arrived at white house farm by 3.52am - it takes about 7 minutes to drive from his cottage(9 head Street, Goldhanger) to his parents farmhouse. He must have left' therefore no later than 3.45am to go to the farm from his cottage.. if he left sooner, he slow timed for whatever reason! If he left later, he must have been speeding part of the way (hence why he slowed his speed right down upon seeing a police car hurtling along behind him on the Tollsbury road. Maybe he thinking that the cops were to pull him over for speeding)!

Now, if he left his cottage at around 3.45am, to go to his parents cottage, this gave him just enough time from that point onwards, to reach white house farm by 3.52am
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #146 on: October 14, 2018, 12:59:PM »
Jeremy arrived at white house farm by 3.52am - it takes about 7 minutes to drive from his cottage(9 head Street, Goldhanger) to his parents farmhouse. He must have left' therefore no later than 3.45am to go to the farm from his cottage.. if he left sooner, he slow timed for whatever reason! If he left later, he must have been speeding part of the way (hence why he slowed his speed right down upon seeing a police car hurtling along behind him on the Tollsbury road. Maybe he thinking that the cops were to pull him over for speeding)!

Now, if he left his cottage at around 3.45am, to go to his parents cottage, this gave him just enough time from that point onwards, to reach white house farm by 3.52am

If you are one of those, who believe he deliberately took his time to get there to the farmhouse by 3.52am, then you must accept that Jeremy must have left much sooner than 3.45am..

But, for people like yourselves, who subscribe to this view, you must accept that PC West did not contact the operator until 3.42am asking her to check the phone line at white house farm? Then he told Jeremy Bamber to go directly to the scene where he would be met by police officers who had been deployed there already (deployed to the scene at 3.35am)..
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Online mike tesko

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2018, 01:01:PM »
If Jeremy Bamber had made his own call to police at say 3.26am, rather than at 3.36am, he couldn't have left his cottage until some point after PC West asked the operator to check the phone line at white house farm ( this took place at 3.42am) - so, we have at best an additional 2 minutes (maximum) which to add to Jeremy's travelling time, from his cottage before he arrived at the scene by 3.52am...

That's 2 minutes to get himself dressed and ready, to get himself out and into his car, and drive all the way to the farmhouse (that's a total of 9 minutes)...

He had a maximum of 2 minutes additional time, to get himself ready, get out into his car, start it up, and start driving, only to have to allow right down when the occupants of CA/07 came hurtling along behind him on Tollsbury road, done slowed down to allow the opoliice to go hurtloiing past him!

Everything I know about this case, tells me that Jeremy Bamber was not slow timing to delay his arrival at the farmhouse,I think it was reasonable to allow him a couple of minutes to get dressed after 3.42am, and drive, be delayed, and arrived at the scene by 3.52am..
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 01:12:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2018, 01:20:PM »
No, same tone, but dependant on the technical state of a phone line when operator did her/his check up, the operator might be able to break into the line, or might have to wait until one party or another vacated use of the telephone they were in control of, at (a) or (b) - if the state of the phone line an operator was checking was Simply 'negative' (phone off the hook) the operator could break into the line (positive influence) because the negative situation was "matched' by influence of the operator,. Similarly, if the phone line had a 'negative' / 'positive' state, at the time an operator was making a check, the operator would be able to break into a line because the 'positive' influence of an operator checking such a line would be such that a Negative / positive / positive condition is met! A negative / positive condition was met, when a different set of circumstances were prevalent, such as in the following examples:-

Phone (a) is off the hook, and (b) the operator is trying to break into the line, which can be successful

Phone (a) and phone (b) are is use in the following set of circumstances, there has been a call in progress between phone (a) and phone (b), but that one or other of the caller's, then for whatever cause or reason they put the handset of one or other phones down, off its hook, and after this has been done, the operator decides to make a call to check either -  either to called (a) or (b)..

But..

When phone (a) ends up with its handest 'off the hook', when either a call was in progress  between caller (a) and caller (b), or vice versa, the state of the line between both parties would be a positive / positive condition, and the operator (positive influence) could break into the phone line, because the positive status of the line was greater to that required in order to allow an operator to be able to  break into a telephone line, which is / are (1) a negative condition, (2) a negative / positive condition, (3) a positive / positive condition..

However, an operator would not be able to break into a telephone line, where none of the aforementioned conditions are met, where for example, phone (a) is simple off the hook (no connection to any caller) and phone (b) decides to call caller (a) . These circumstances create / produce a negative / negative situation which cannot be overridden, or broken into, because the total sum of influences would be negative / negative, and could not be at least matched by the positive influence of the operators actions!

Ian Manley (BT engineer)

Previously, you stated that the tones were different. This positive and negative stuff doesn't matter because the exchange at Maldon was unmaned during the night and the operator would have no way of knowing that the phone was off the hook or if a conversation was underway. The only way to tell, was to break into the line - which is what happened.

By the way, I know Ian and I emailed him, he also confirmed that the tones for engaged and off the hook are the same.
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The telephone off the hook
« Reply #149 on: October 14, 2018, 03:07:PM »
But we need some evidence of this Mike from Linda, we need evidence that Nevill called Police and it was concealed, that Julie was the Police's factotum, that Jeremy has an illegitimate child, that there exists a photograph of Sheila on the bed.


As for banning people, there have been too many banned already when they could have been given a second chance upon receipt of an apology.