Author Topic: 'Fatal Vision' which Freaked Out Jeremy Catalyst for Mugford' to get revenge!  (Read 300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10661
The Bamberettes might be hoping for a Helena Stoeckley-type confession from Julie, though they will wait in vain. https://youtu.be/HBqkx2SYQbY

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45186
It's an interesting case for sure, the blood and fibre evidence was pretty damning at trial against Mcdonald,  I am of the opinion he is guilty , his story of intruders does not add up imo

I'm reading the Carol Ann Lee book and at page 272 she says it was Jeremy who had mentioned to Julie after the murders that he had seen Fatal Vision

Yes, Jeremy mentioned it to Julie asking her if she had seen it on TV - Julie responded that she had seen the first episode only. Jeremy told her it freaked him out and that he couldn't bear to watch any more of it. He said it was uncanny how it was being broadcast on TV so close to the time of the shooting tragedy involving his own family..

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45186
The Bamberettes might be hoping for a Helena Stoeckley-type confession from Julie, though they will wait in vain. https://youtu.be/HBqkx2SYQbY

I believe that Essex police will be forced to release the drugs squad file that contains all the surveillance information obtained involving Jeremy Bambers illicit drug dealing activities, including phone tap evidence confirming that Jeremy did receive a telephone call from Neville Bamber on the morning of the shootings and that the gist of what Jeremy later revealed to Chelmsford police at 3.36am was the truth. It will also be confirmed that after Neville had phoned Jeremy, that Neville had phoned police himself at 3.26am, and that the contents recorded in the 3.26am log were accurately recorded insofar as what Neville Bamber had told the police at that time. It will also confirm that Jeremy had made several attempts to ring Neville back unsuccessfully and that Jeremy kept getting a constant engaged tone, and that the reason for this was that Neville was already talking to the police at Chelmsford at that time! Neville Bamber would have known that by ringing Witham police station at that time of the morning that if there was no-one there to take his call that his call would be automatically switched to the control room at Chelmsford police station. Therefore, the telephone records obtained under the telecommunications act warrant, will confirm that this was the route that Neville's call to police at 3.26am had taken! It will also be confirmed that after failing to re-establish contact with his father, that Jeremy had then tried unsuccessfully to contact Witham police station but that the phone equipment at the other end of the line kept ringing out. This would have occurred because at that time, the automatic switch system was already in use dealing with the switch of Neville Bambers call to Chelmsford police station. The phone tap records held as part of the drugs operation which was already ongoing since before the shooting tragedy will also confirm that after failing to make contact with the police at Witham police station, that Jeremy had then telephoned Julie Mugford' at 3.30am, and said to her that 'there's something wrong at the farm', and she had simply told him 'to go back to bed', and that after this call Jeremy had then made his 3.36am call to Chelmsford police as per the phone log record, and that Jeremy's call to the police on this occasion had lasted exactly 9 minutes in duration until 3.44am / 3.45am at which point Jeremy was told to go to white house farm where he would be met by police who had already been deployed to the incident! It took Jeremy Bamber all of 7 minutes to quickly get himself dressed, get downstairs and out into his astra car and drive to the farm along a route that would normally take around 7 minutes to negotiate driving at a normal speed! I believe that he was initially driving at a much faster speed than normal until he noticed the flashing lights of the police car hurtling along the Tollsbury road behind him, which must have momentarily caused Jeremy to think that the police were going to stop him for speeding along, hence why he slowed the car right down to about 30 MPH despite the road having a 60 MPH speed limit. In any event the suggestion that Jeremy had been taking his time on getting to white house farm on that occasion is only partially true, because as I say he was speeding during the first part of that journey but slowed down once the police came along fast behind him with its lights flashing, and from that point onwards Jeremy continued to drive at a much lower speed than the speed limit for the road, hence why Jeremy arrived some 3 - 4 minutes at the scene after police had already got there. The phone tap records which were part of the ongoing drugs operation will confirm all that has been spoken about here. The operation itself was actually being run from Southend police station headed by a DI Soanes...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 09:25:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45186
Separate Crime reference files were kept at Southend police station for the five deaths, than were created at Chelmsford police station - for example, at Chelmsford a general Crime reference of 'SC/688/85' was created which deal with the five deaths collectively, this was because at Southend police station, Sheila Caffell was also part of the drugs squad undercover operation, and because she ended up dead at the scene whilst the drugs squad operation was ongoing, Southend police took precedence over Chelmsford in creating individual crime reference files for each of the five victims, including Sheila who as I say was one of the suspected target criminals in the drugs investigation (I have these Southend police Crime reference numbers in my possession)! Freddie Emani was another who was being investigated as part of the same undercover operation, so was Julie Mugford' and all the other students who lived in the same building in bedsits close to her room...

All the missing evidence is being kept at Southend police station, the defence never got to see hardly any of this material, and would only have been given access to some of it if they could prove that it's disclosure would tend to prove let's say Jeremy Bambers innocence! The problem would have been then, and it is the same now, that the defence would have had to specify the evidence they are seeking to rely upon and give a valid reason for why that document or that evidence should be released, without having it confirmed beforehand that such a document or such information actually existed at all in the first instance! (Pii rules of evidence, and disclosure apply)...

The drugs operation files held at Southend police station is the way forward - they have got evidence proving that Jeremy Bamber did receive that early morning telephone call from Neville Bamber, it's contained and has been retained for over 33 years under a telecommunications act warrant (pii), which can in unusual circumstances be obtained for use in Jeremy Bambers defence providing he can specify the document / evidence he wants or needs, and gives a justifiable reason or ground why that information or documents should be released!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 12:17:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45186
On the matter of Julie Mugford's complicity in committing a whole host of serious criminal offences, she did not tell the jury that at the time she was making all these witness statements to Essex police that she was being put up in police digs and that the police were paying all of her expenses! Neither did she 'fess up to having already signed the £25,000 contract for her exclusive story if she helped to get Jeremy Bamber convicted of the murders! Furthermore, she also failed to tell the jury or the court, that during the trial that the News of the World were paying a five star hotel bill for Julie Mugford' and her mother to stay in prior to giving her evidence!

It was Criminal that the trial judge Drake told the jury in his summing up that they could convict Jeremy of the five murders on Mugford's evidence alone! Especially if the judge knew about her expenses all being paid by the police and the News of the World!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10661
On the matter of Julie Mugford's complicity in committing a whole host of serious criminal offences, she did not tell the jury that at the time she was making all these witness statements to Essex police that she was being put up in police digs and that the police were paying all of her expenses! Neither did she 'fess up to having already signed the £25,000 contract for her exclusive story if she helped to get Jeremy Bamber convicted of the murders! Furthermore, she also failed to tell the jury or the court, that during the trial that the News of the World were paying a five star hotel bill for Julie Mugford' and her mother to stay in prior to giving her evidence!

It was Criminal that the trial judge Drake told the jury in his summing up that they could convict Jeremy of the five murders on Mugford's evidence alone! Especially if the judge knew about her expenses all being paid by the police and the News of the World!

If I recall he advised the jury to treat her evidence with a great deal of caution, though admittedly it's unclear as to how they individually reached their decision.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45186
If I recall he advised the jury to treat her evidence with a great deal of caution, though admittedly it's unclear as to how they individually reached their decision.

What Drake said is not evidence, he wasn't a witness in the case, he was the trial judge, who was there to deal with points of law which in my opinion he failed miserably when dealing with the testimony of Julie Mugford', particularly if the judge knew about the News of the World Contract and the fact that she stood to benefit financially should Jeremy be convicted of the murders! If he didn't know anything whatsoever about it, why did the prosecuting authorities keep that information from the trial judge? Why did the solicitor acting for Julie Mugford' fail to bring this matter to the judges attention, and more importantly, why did Mugford' herself keep her big gob tightly shut regarding the deal?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:57:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline IndigoJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
it was a biased summing up , clearly the judge thought JB guilty.

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6137
it was a biased summing up , clearly the judge thought JB guilty.


I have put all public domain snippets of it here

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9404.msg438059.html#msg438059
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 04:56:PM by David1819 »
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6137
From memory the guy in Fatal Vision was soon back in jail and is still there today , he was guilty.


He was not "soon back in jail" he was convicted 9 years after the murders.
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."