Author Topic: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally  (Read 927 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2018, 02:09:PM »
I can't help thinking that because she had spent time in the penal system this might have been seen by politicians in league with accountants as a way to cut public spending instead of a real effort to make her well.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:15:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Jane

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2018, 02:11:PM »
I've read about all the abortive attempts to cure her (if that's the right word) but one picture summed it up for me: the young woman clutching her pink cuddly toy, suggesting that she still had love to give and was capable of feeling it, even if it were only directed at an inanimate object. The problem lay in her distrust of humans, so much so that she wished to detach herself permanently from them. I have to ask myself if this is the case why that human contact had failed and why better efforts could not be made by them to ameliorate the condition of someone they purport to love.

Steve, I DO hear hat you say. I, too, have a sense of frustration, anger, helplessness. How CAN this have happened? MAYBE the psychotherapy didn't dig deeply enough. MAYBE she was resistant to it. MAYBE she refused certain drugs/therapies. I can't help but feel, that as an adult, she wasn't allowed to have some responsibility in the treatment she received. It sounds very much to me as if she'd had all she wanted and couldn't take any more. MAYBE that teddybear reminded her of a time when she felt safe and difficult decisions weren't required of her.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 02:17:PM »
Steve, I DO hear hat you say. I, too, have a sense of frustration, anger, helplessness. How CAN this have happened? MAYBE the psychotherapy didn't dig deeply enough. MAYBE she was resistant to it. MAYBE she refused certain drugs/therapies. I can't help but feel, that as an adult, she wasn't allowed to have some responsibility in the treatment she received. It sounds very much to me as if she'd had all she wanted and couldn't take any more. MAYBE that teddybear reminded her of a time when she felt safe and difficult decisions weren't required of her.
..and as you say gaining control over her fate by following legal procedures for a number of years until she arrived at that point. The problem I have is why she has put the onus, the responsibility and burden of killing her onto others.

Offline Jane

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2018, 02:38:PM »
..and as you say gaining control over her fate by following legal procedures for a number of years until she arrived at that point. The problem I have is why she has put the onus, the responsibility and burden of killing her onto others.
I can't help thinking that because she had spent time in the penal system this might have been seen by politicians in league with accountants as a way to cut public spending instead of a real effort to accommodate her wish.

I think the Dutch have a very different way of seeing things than do we. The Dutch have legal euthanasia, which is something I'd certainly opt for if I had the choice. The most I could do now is sign a DNR, however, a 90+ year old of my acquaintance who is completely bed bound was indignant when asked!!! So why would she put responsibility for her death in the hands of others? Presumably, for no deeper reason than because that's the way it's done in Holland and there are those whose job it is to administer their client/patient's wishes.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2018, 06:17:PM »
Can anybody understand this woman's condition? I thought voices in one's head could be controlled by medication, or is there still a gap in psychiatric medicine or are these voices merely a reflection of one's inner self? https://www.dailywire.com/news/26461/netherlands-doctors-approve-euthanizing-29-year-hank-berrien
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:16:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2018, 06:48:PM »
A person who is normal and healthy can hear voices in their head. It's not only those who are diagnosed with illness. When I say normal and healthy I mean those who've suffered some form of trauma can hallucinate------it's to do with shock.

Sometimes it's whatever drugs a patient takes which can cause voices and hallucinations. It's trial and error because when those drugs are stopped, so do the voices.

Offline lookout

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2018, 07:08:PM »
Can anybody understand this woman's condition? I thought voices in one's head could be controlled by medication, or is there still a gap in psychiatric medicine or are these voices merely a refelection of one's inner self? https://www.dailywire.com/news/26461/netherlands-doctors-approve-euthanizing-29-year-hank-berrien





Chlorpromazine which Sheila should have taken but didn't is an antipsychotic and would have quelled the voices in her head.

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 08:03:PM »
Reading this actually made me cry, not least because my son has suffered from almost the same symptoms as she had from age 13 to 18 that he is now, believe me there is always hope and there are many ways of helping , a combination of medication, therapy , love and support . We should never give up on people who have mental illness ! shame on these so called "doctors" !

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 08:07:PM »
Can anybody understand this woman's condition? I thought voices in one's head could be controlled by medication, or is there still a gap in psychiatric medicine or are these voices merely a reflection of one's inner self? https://www.dailywire.com/news/26461/netherlands-doctors-approve-euthanizing-29-year-hank-berrien

there are a number of anti psychotic medications that are now available , so if one didn't work they could have tried others, in combination with psychotherapy would have been her best chance

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 08:16:PM »
It has made me think about all categories of people who have been euthanized by the Dutch and Belgian governments and reconsider my attitude about Ashley Smith, a thread which nugnug started and for whom there should have been proper help.

Offline maggie

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 08:39:PM »
Reading this actually made me cry, not least because my son has suffered from almost the same symptoms as she had from age 13 to 18 that he is now, believe me there is always hope and there are many ways of helping , a combination of medication, therapy , love and support . We should never give up on people who have mental illness ! shame on these so called "doctors" !
It certainly sounds inhumane however, tragically many people choose to end their own lives every day.  Some succeed and some fail, those who fail and are determined keep trying until they succeed.  I don't feel I have a right to judge.

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 08:45:PM »
It certainly sounds inhumane however, tragically many people choose to end their own lives every day.  Some succeed and some fail, those who fail and are determined keep trying until they succeed.  I don't feel I have a right to judge.

I feel I have the right to judge someone who assists them i.e a doctor who is enabled by the legal system to carry out this shocking act ! imo it is inhumane

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 08:46:PM »
It certainly sounds inhumane however, tragically many people choose to end their own lives every day.  Some succeed and some fail, those who fail and are determined keep trying until they succeed.  I don't feel I have a right to judge.
But aren't we all tarnished in some way by being complicit in this legalized killing? Why does the individual concerned wish for an audience or at least another medical professional to perform the procedure for them?

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2018, 09:10:PM »
But aren't we all tarnished in some way by being complicit in this legalized killing? Why does the individual concerned wish for an audience or at least another medical professional to perform the procedure for them?

imo the person is ill and lacking in the necessary insight to make the decision.

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: 29-year-old Dutch woman ends her life legally
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 09:11:PM »
It has made me think about all categories of people who have been euthanized by the Dutch and Belgian governments and reconsider my attitude about Ashley Smith, a thread which nugnug started and for whom there should have been proper help.

I've just googled that, horrendous case!