Author Topic: The gun cupboard  (Read 335 times)

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Offline IndigoJ

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The gun cupboard
« on: August 08, 2018, 08:29:AM »
Is there any information about whether the gun cupboard would normally have been kept locked?

I find it odd that it was open and that JB stated he didn't replace a gun in the cupboard when he left that day

with two 6 year olds in the house i would have thought it a priority that it was kept locked and wouldn't that have been a condition of his gun licence?

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 08:47:AM »
As Jeremy said in court 'I didn't know what was going to happen, did I'.

Obviously he saw rabbits & got the rifle from the gun cupboard. Then left the rifle on the kitchen table.

Bit of a strange thing to do, take something as big as a rifle from a gun cupboard, then two minutes later not bother returning it back there.

Bit rude as well, him leaving a big rifle sprawled across someone else's table. When the gun cuoboard was feet away.

I can understand if he took a coffee mug from a cupboard. Drank a coffee & then left it on the kitchen table. Although still polite to wash it up & put it away afterwards.

Nevill & June would have seen the rifle sprawled across the kitchen table. However it has to assummed neither of them put it away.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:49:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 08:59:AM »
Is there any information about whether the gun cupboard would normally have been kept locked?

I find it odd that it was open and that JB stated he didn't replace a gun in the cupboard when he left that day

with two 6 year olds in the house i would have thought it a priority that it was kept locked and wouldn't that have been a condition of his gun licence?

There was no lock on the gun cupboard. Back then the laws were very relaxed.
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 09:04:AM »
There was no lock on the gun cupboard. Back then the laws were very relaxed.

Do you believe Sheila got the rifle from the kitchen table, or from the unlocked gun cupboard ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 09:15:AM »
Sheila getting the rifle from the gun cupboard is very unlikely.

Bamber has always promoted Sheila taking it from the kitchen table. This is more appropriate to a spontaneous action in the middle of a 3am pyschotic rage.

Doubtful Sheila in a rage would stop to think & decide to go to the gun cupboard. If she did she would not know what gun was loaded or the best weapon to use in a massacre attempt. Nevill would also have more chance to stop her.

Both Nevill and June must have left the rifle sprawled across the kitchen table. After Bamber put it there around 9pm.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:17:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 09:19:AM »
I don't think Sheila gave her dad a chance of putting the rifle away before she grabbed it.


Nevill may have taken the dogs out before he put the guns away in the cupboard. He wouldn't have finished the harvest until late as he'd resumed after Jeremy had left for home that night, then by the time Nevill took the dogs out the time would be getting on so who knows if Sheila had been in the kitchen on his return ? Sheila may have already been brandishing the rifle, we don't know.

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 09:24:AM »
How could Nevill, June, Bamber & Sheila have supper on the kitchen table ?

The first thing Bamber did when arriving at WHF, was get the rifle & then leave it on the kitchen table. There would be no room for supper.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:25:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 09:29:AM »
How could Nevill, June, Bamber & Sheila have supper on the kitchen table ?

The first thing Bamber did when arriving at WHF, was get the rifle & then leave it on the kitchen table. There would be no room for supper.




 


By the time JB had left supper was well finished because while he was waiting to go home weren't the family at the table discussing foster-care ?


However,the morning photo's showed the table had been laid for breakfast so someone had been busy  the night before ?

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 09:35:AM »



 


By the time JB had left supper was well finished because while he was waiting to go home weren't the family at the table discussing foster-care ?


However,the morning photo's showed the table had been laid for breakfast so someone had been busy  the night before ?

The table was laid for breakfast ? So the rifle had been put away.

I know supper was finished before Bamber left. As Bamber was at supper when the fostering conversations took place.

But how could the four of them have supper if the rifle was sprawled across the kitchen table ? The first thing Bamber did when entering WHF was get the rifle.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:36:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 09:39:AM »
Court of appeal:

'He said he had left the gun on the kitchen table with a full magazine and a box of ammunition nearby.'
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 09:54:AM »
The table was laid for breakfast ? So the rifle had been put away.

I know supper was finished before Bamber left. As Bamber was at supper when the fostering conversations took place.

But how could the four of them have supper if the rifle was sprawled across the kitchen table ? The first thing Bamber did when entering WHF was get the rifle.

But we only have his word for it that it was left out. It had to have been SAID that it was left out in order for Sheila -losing her grip on reality, we're encouraged to believe- to have become aware of it being there.

Offline lookout

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 10:02:AM »
The table was laid for breakfast ? So the rifle had been put away.

I know supper was finished before Bamber left. As Bamber was at supper when the fostering conversations took place.

But how could the four of them have supper if the rifle was sprawled across the kitchen table ? The first thing Bamber did when entering WHF was get the rifle.





Supper had finished and the twins in bed by the time JB had left. Beside anything else,the rifle had been left on the monks bench and not the table which guilters have stated.

Offline Adam

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2018, 10:05:AM »
But we only have his word for it that it was left out. It had to have been SAID that it was left out in order for Sheila -losing her grip on reality, we're encouraged to believe- to have become aware of it being there.

It is very surprising that Bamber did not put the rifle back in the gun cupboard after returning inside.

It is also very surprising that Bamber put the rifle sprawling across the kitchen table, knowing supper was about to be served.

It is very surprising that the table was not already laid for supper prior to Bamber putting the rifle on it.

It is also very surprising that Nevill or June did not tell Bamber to remove the rifle from the kitchen table prior to supper.

It is also very surprising that Nevill or June did not remove the rifle from the kitchen table themselves before supper.

It is very surprising that the 4 of them ate supper with the rifle sprawled across the kitchen table.

It is very surprising that after having supper with the rifle on the table, Nevill, June or Bamber still didn't remove the rifle.

It is very surprising that the kitchen table was set for Breakfast. But the rifle was still not put away.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2018, 10:11:AM »
It is very surprising that Bamber did not put the rifle back in the gun cupboard after returning inside.

It is also very surprising that Bamber put the rifle sprawling across the kitchen table, knowing supper was about to be served.

It is very surprising that the table was not already laid for supper prior to Bamber putting the rifle on it.

It is also very surprising that Nevill or June did not tell Bamber to remove the rifle from the kitchen table prior to supper.

It is also very surprising that Nevill or June did not remove the rifle from the kitchen table themselves before supper.

It is very surprising that the 4 of them ate supper with the rifle sprawled across the kitchen table.

It is very surprising that after having supper with the rifle on the table, Nevill, June or Bamber still didn't remove the rifle.

It is very surprising that the kitchen table was set for Breakfast. But the rifle was still not put away.





The rifle had been used the night/early morning before the table had been set for breakfast.

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: The gun cupboard
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2018, 10:18:AM »




The rifle had been used the night/early morning before the table had been set for breakfast.

are you saying that someone set the table for breakfast after the murders took place?

or are you saying JB left the rifle on the table which had been set for breakfast as supper had already been eaten by the time he put the rifle on the table?