What WAS Jeremy's Ultimate Aim In Life?

[Jane]

After 3 years they didn't give it chance !

They'd been together for much longer than 3 years.

[lookout]

They'd been together for much longer than 3 years.

Married ?

[Jane]

Married ?

Living together, certainly. Married? She was pregnant when they married, suffered a late miscarriage. Went to Japan, came home, was pregnant again, miscarried. got pregnant with the twins, spent most of the pregnancy in hospital.

[lookout]

Something caught my eye just half an hour ago while going through old posts. One " recognised " poster had said that Colin had walked out on Sheila and the twins when they were about 4/5 months old then never visited them for a year or so. Hard hearted was the poster's description.

What are your thoughts on this and what damage would you have envisaged to Sheila and the twins ?

[Jane]

Something caught my eye just half an hour ago while going through old posts. One " recognised " poster had said that Colin had walked out on Sheila and the twins when they were about 4/5 months old then never visited them for a year or so. Hard hearted was the poster's description.

What are your thoughts on this and what damage would you have envisaged to Sheila and the twins ?

Surely, before we leap into "Hard-hearted" and envisaged damage territory, this 'fact' requires verification? Hasn't enough damage been inflicted on the family and it's wider members by attaching 'facts' to them that aren't true? However,if we look at what IS known, Colin appears to have been an excellent and caring father who provided his boys with security and creativity. It's possible, that by the time they were 6, both boys knew that Mummy was often poorly and felt responsible for her well being. NOT a good and healthy place for any child to be.

[lookout]

Surely, before we leap into "Hard-hearted" and envisaged damage territory, this 'fact' requires verification? Hasn't enough damage been inflicted on the family and it's wider members by attaching 'facts' to them that aren't true? However,if we look at what IS known, Colin appears to have been an excellent and caring father who provided his boys with security and creativity. It's possible, that by the time they were 6, both boys knew that Mummy was often poorly and felt responsible for her well being. NOT a good and healthy place for any child to be.

I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .

However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !! 

[Jane]

I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .

However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !!

Lookout, the key phrase, of ALL who inhabit a world of only black or white, is SHOULD (N'T) HAVE. It usually relates to things past and the past can't be changed in the present. However, for the purposes of answering your post, I'll join this world..................

You speak of what the family "should have" done for Sheila, but you're overlooking that it was Sheila's choice to live in London. Who, of the family, other than June and Nevill, are you suggesting "should have" offered their help, given that they were aware of her circumstances, anyway? There was Pam, as busy a farmer's wife, with her own family, as was June. There was Ann, a cousin, never close to Sheila, with a young family of her own. There was? Granny Speakman! WHO, of these women, in your opinion, "SHOULD HAVE" made more of an effort, regarding Sheila? Do you realize how silly a statement is "they should have downed tools for an hour or two a week to support her"? Have you ANY idea how long it would have taken for them to get from their rural homes in Essex to Sheila's home in London? "An hour or two" would have just about got them there if they hadn't traveled in rush hour. Sheila, allegedly, had friends. We know there were day carers for the boys. We know her mother-in-law helped her. If Sheila was finding it so difficult to cope, maybe it's she who "should have" as in moved closer to where you believe other help "should have" been forthcoming. Did she not have some responsibility in all this?

[lookout]

Lookout, the key phrase, of ALL who inhabit a world of only black or white, is SHOULD (N'T) HAVE. It usually relates to things past and the past can't be changed in the present. However, for the purposes of answering your post, I'll join this world..................

You speak of what the family "should have" done for Sheila, but you're overlooking that it was Sheila's choice to live in London. Who, of the family, other than June and Nevill, are you suggesting "should have" offered their help, given that they were aware of her circumstances, anyway? There was Pam, as busy a farmer's wife, with her own family, as was June. There was Ann, a cousin, never close to Sheila, with a young family of her own. There was? Granny Speakman! WHO, of these women, in your opinion, "SHOULD HAVE" made more of an effort, regarding Sheila? Do you realize how silly a statement is "they should have downed tools for an hour or two a week to support her"? Have you ANY idea how long it would have taken for them to get from their rural homes in Essex to Sheila's home in London? "An hour or two" would have just about got them there if they hadn't traveled in rush hour. Sheila, allegedly, had friends. We know there were day carers for the boys. We know her mother-in-law helped her. If Sheila was finding it so difficult to cope, maybe it's she who "should have" as in moved closer to where you believe other help "should have" been forthcoming. Did she not have some responsibility in all this?

I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?

Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.

I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.

[Caroline]

I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .

However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !!

You taling about this?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2787.msg95387.html#msg95387

You trust the poster? I thnk you would trust anyone who believes Bamber innocent but the post comment isn't even sourced and it's clear thee poster isn't sure about the comment.

[Caroline]

I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?

Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.

I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.

Again, your opinion on people you have never met!

[Caroline]

I did NOT say that he worked at WHF !! I said he knew/knows the families. Mistakes like that about what I allegedy said are the root cause of problems on here. I wish people would read my posts properly !!
Ask him, he'll know !

HE SAID he worked at WHF and didn't! I didn't YOU said it - I wish people would read my posts properly!!

[Jane]

I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?

Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.

I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.

When will you realize that nothing JUST happens, and nothing happens for nothing. The Bamber/Boutflour family dynamic was years in the making. They kind of involvement YOU see as help, may well been seen by others as interference.