Author Topic: Nevills burns revisited.  (Read 28645 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #315 on: July 15, 2018, 03:05:PM »
So from what I can gather,you wouldn't forgive JB ? Can I ask why he's any different to the monster Bundy?

Perhaps it's because the family would never forgive him ? You do what others tell you ?


I think the spectre of adoption hangs very heavily over over this crime, Lookout. I'm not aware of the family's feelings and even if I was, I'd be capable of supporting them without having them.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #316 on: July 15, 2018, 03:06:PM »
If the victim were a relative or friend, I could execute the perpetrator myself, if not, I couldn’t because I wouldn’t be as emotionally involved. That’s why they don’t let family choose punishments.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #317 on: July 15, 2018, 03:08:PM »

I think the spectre of adoption hangs very heavily over over this crime, Lookout. I'm not aware of the family's feelings and even if I was, I'd be capable of supporting them without having them.

I agree - I think ultimately feelings of abandonment let to resentment which led to murder.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #318 on: July 15, 2018, 03:11:PM »
Society as a whole hasn’t and won’t forgive him, hence the whole life tarrif. What he did was unforgivable but it’s not for an individual to forgive - it’s for the legal system to determine justice.

You're absolutely correct, Caroline. It matters not a JOT what society feels -it wasn't society's family who were slaughtered- but society IS entitled to reflect the opinion of/sentence handed down by the legal system.

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #319 on: July 15, 2018, 03:13:PM »
I agree - I think ultimately feelings of abandonment let to resentment which led to murder.


And to deny that is to deny Jeremy his feelings.................which is quite possible how the whole tragedy started.

Offline lookout

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #320 on: July 15, 2018, 03:37:PM »
Feelings ? Murderers don't have feelings !!

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #321 on: July 15, 2018, 03:45:PM »
Feelings ? Murderers don't have feelings !!


But ALL murderers were once small children who wanted nothing more than to be heard and approved by their parents.

Offline lookout

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #322 on: July 15, 2018, 04:19:PM »

But ALL murderers were once small children who wanted nothing more than to be heard and approved by their parents.






There must be millions of children " who'd wished to have been heard and approved " but there aren't millions who've murdered. It's as though you're excusing murder ?
To me there's NO excuse whatsoever for the lack of self-control unless a person is severely mentally ill and even then it has to be proved beyond doubt.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #323 on: July 15, 2018, 04:24:PM »

But ALL murderers were once small children who wanted nothing more than to be heard and approved by their parents.
It's strange I was thinking myself over the weekend as I watched the new Karen Carpenter docudrama how problems which are never discussed as adolescents often rear their head again and come back to bite with a vengeance. https://youtu.be/Vj5Y6OxdWGI
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 04:25:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #324 on: July 15, 2018, 04:32:PM »





There must be millions of children " who'd wished to have been heard and approved " but there aren't millions who've murdered. It's as though you're excusing murder ?
To me there's NO excuse whatsoever for the lack of self-control unless a person is severely mentally ill and even then it has to be proved beyond doubt.

You're absolutely correct, Lookout. But we must remember that all children are individuals. Some will, if they have some sense of their self worth, have loving grandparents, or aunts and uncles they can unburden themselves to and feel supported by. Others who, for whatever reason, feel worthless/ungrateful will keep it to themselves out of fear of others learning how worthless and undeserving they are. I'm NOT excusing murder. I AM trying to find reasons for it. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour whether one is 8 or 80.

I found it very hard trying to live in a world which was nothing but black or white. No room for error. No room for reasoning. No room for my own beliefs. It was all about what others had dictated as SHOULD have.

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #325 on: July 15, 2018, 04:36:PM »
It's strange I was thinking myself over the weekend as I watched the new Karen Carpenter docudrama how problems which are never discussed as adolescents often rear their head again and come back to bite with a vengeance. https://youtu.be/Vj5Y6OxdWGI

Sadly the problems which we experience in adolescence usually have their genesis in the unresolved conflicts of childhood.

Offline lookout

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #326 on: July 15, 2018, 06:02:PM »
It's strange I was thinking myself over the weekend as I watched the new Karen Carpenter docudrama how problems which are never discussed as adolescents often rear their head again and come back to bite with a vengeance. https://youtu.be/Vj5Y6OxdWGI






That was so sad Steve.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #327 on: July 15, 2018, 06:28:PM »





That was so sad Steve.
Do you see a parallel in the dominant mother, the children wanting to please parents yet who have no control, the switching of the mother's affection, the stifling of romantic relationships, the quest for a utopian perfection which leads to the ensuing tragedy..
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:38:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #328 on: July 15, 2018, 07:00:PM »
Do you see a parallel in the dominant mother, the children wanting to please parents, the switching of the mother's affection, the stifling of romantic relationships, the quest for a utopian perfection which leads to the ensuing tragedy..





A real harridan. People like that leave you powerless-----if you let them, but because the mother was so controlling she too had a hidden problem in the way that she was. To be driven in such a way is just as bad as being despondent from a mental health point of view.

I can't watch programmes about pushy parents or child prodigies knowing that it usually ends in tears. How cruel ! I remember that very young pianist many years ago a wonderful player----but over the years his life took a U- turn. They suffer burn-out in trying to please everyone. Some are able to stand back and realise what's happening to them before it's too late but if there's a driving force at the back of you it can only end in tragedy sooner or later. 

Offline Jane

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Re: Nevills burns revisited.
« Reply #329 on: July 15, 2018, 07:44:PM »




A real harridan. People like that leave you powerless-----if you let them, but because the mother was so controlling she too had a hidden problem in the way that she was. To be driven in such a way is just as bad as being despondent from a mental health point of view.

I can't watch programmes about pushy parents or child prodigies knowing that it usually ends in tears. How cruel ! I remember that very young pianist many years ago a wonderful player----but over the years his life took a U- turn. They suffer burn-out in trying to please everyone. Some are able to stand back and realise what's happening to them before it's too late but if there's a driving force at the back of you it can only end in tragedy sooner or later.

 I do get that it's hard to watch pushy parents. One has an overwhelming feeling of impotence -helplessness- possibly watching history repeat. Unfortunately, the more powerful and controlling the mother, the more powerless and controlled can be the child. Those who do override that power are very likely to end up emulating the parent they've tried so hard to divorce themselves from. However, whilst all learned behaviour is repeated, on a scale of 1 to 10, most achieve no more than a low mean average.