Author Topic: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents  (Read 174 times)

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Offline David1819

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Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« on: June 28, 2018, 04:33:PM »
On the day of the murders Vanezis states that Sheila's stomach had partially digested food.

Some 30 years later he explains to CAL that this was actually for all the victims.

"Her stomach contained ‘partially digested food’.22 Vanezis made no reference to the stomach contents of the other victims, leading to speculation that Sheila might have eaten later than her family. ‘I’m sure they all had some food in their stomachs – I noted it for her and took it as read with the others.’"





However Vanezis did not carry out the autopsy's on June or the Twins until the following day (the 8th). In other words Vanezis is saying he somehow knew everyone's stomach contents before he even began to examine them. And writes this finding down on a sheet of paper that exclusively describes Sheila Caffell.



If they all had some food in their stomachs as Vanezis tells CAL. Then were are the reference's to these stomach contents of Nevill, June and the Twins? There seems to be only be one exhibit that consists of stomach contents and this belongs to none other than Sheila.




Were does this lead us?

The logical deduction is that there were no contents in the stomachs of the other four family members.
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline lookout

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 05:19:PM »
And the logical answer will be that because " they all sat down to eat at the same time that naturally their stomach contents would have been present too "---------so you can't win !!

Offline David1819

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 11:04:PM »
And the logical answer will be that because " they all sat down to eat at the same time that naturally their stomach contents would have been present too "---------so you can't win !!

We know from the telephone conversation between June and Pam that Sheila had just gone upstairs to bed. This was after they all had dinner.

The stomach contents indicate that Sheila must have got out of bed later that night and got food from the kitchen. This is also where the rifle and amunition was left.


By the time the police entered the building. The rifle was upstairs with Sheila who also had no panties on. But there was a pair of bloody painties left in the kitchen.


Once again the pieces all fit together.



"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline Caroline

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 11:08:PM »
On the day of the murders Vanezis states that Sheila's stomach had partially digested food.

Some 30 years later he explains to CAL that this was actually for all the victims.

"Her stomach contained ‘partially digested food’.22 Vanezis made no reference to the stomach contents of the other victims, leading to speculation that Sheila might have eaten later than her family. ‘I’m sure they all had some food in their stomachs – I noted it for her and took it as read with the others.’"





However Vanezis did not carry out the autopsy's on June or the Twins until the following day (the 8th). In other words Vanezis is saying he somehow knew everyone's stomach contents before he even began to examine them. And writes this finding down on a sheet of paper that exclusively describes Sheila Caffell.



If they all had some food in their stomachs as Vanezis tells CAL. Then were are the reference's to these stomach contents of Nevill, June and the Twins? There seems to be only be one exhibit that consists of stomach contents and this belongs to none other than Sheila.




Were does this lead us?

The logical deduction is that there were no contents in the stomachs of the other four family members.

No it doesn't - time of death and stomach contents were more important to deduce for Sheila because she was considered the perpetrator.

Offline lookout

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 08:10:AM »
Unfortunately we have no time of death to refer to.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 09:49:AM »
We know from the telephone conversation between June and Pam that Sheila had just gone upstairs to bed. This was after they all had dinner.

The stomach contents indicate that Sheila must have got out of bed later that night and got food from the kitchen. This is also where the rifle and amunition was left.


By the time the police entered the building. The rifle was upstairs with Sheila who also had no panties on. But there was a pair of bloody painties left in the kitchen.


Once again the pieces all fit together.

It doesn't mean that at all - you're making them fit.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 12:44:PM »
Sheila Cavell was still alive until after DS Jones and DC Clark had seen her body laid on top of the bed side by side with the body of June Bamber. there was a rifle laying on the bed in between both of the bodies. There was a Bible on top of Sheila Caffells chest, and by that stage Sheila had only got one bullet entry wound in her neck!

This occurred after 9.05am...

Everyone can continue to pretend that Sheila wasn't the woman's body seen through the laundry room window buy PC Collins and PC Delgado before the firearms officers entered the farmhouse. The claim by PC Collins and PC Delgado that once they had entered the kitchen and found the body of Nevill Bamber they realised that they had mistaken his body for that a woman, has no credibility what so ever! This is because Collins and Delgado did not look through the kitchen window into the kitchen, they have commenced the approach from the corner of white / red of the premises, along with the other four firearms officers, and had gone past the kitchen window and arrived at the door that they were going to try to force open! At this point PC Collins and PC Delgado went beyond the door in question to the next ground floor window which was the laundry room window and they both peered into the room beyond. it was through this window the laundry room window that they both saw the body of a woman! The body of that woman could only have been Sheila Caffell!

It took 5 hefty blows of a sledgehammer to smash the door open...

no doubt the noise and clamor made by the sledgehammer hitting or striking the door either awake or disturbed Sheila and she fled into the kitchen through the internal door in the back hallway! Once inside the kitchen she must have pushed November's body which was seated on a wooden chair back against the door through which she had just entered the kitchen by, and placed a second chair in front of his body to prevent it from falling forward!

When the police eventually got into the kitchen, they reported the presence of two bodies, the body of 1 dead male and the body of one dead female. at least I'm there was also a flurry of messages being passed confirming the presence of two bodies in the kitchen and on each occasion the mention of a female body always came after it has already been mentioned about a male body! Indeed, by 7.45 am staff back at the control room in Chelmsford Police Station, who won't be listening in via the open telephone line which have been patched through to them by the operator from 6 .09am, realise the what they were dealing with by that stage were 2 deaths one a murder and the other a suicide!

A further 3 bodies were found upstairs making 5 dead in total...

As such, the stomach contents of Sheila which were suggested has been partially digested, seems to be somewhat consistent with her having been alive a lot longer than any of the other four victims!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 12:48:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline IndigoJ

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 03:46:PM »
incredible that he didnt note the stomach contents of the other victims!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 04:38:PM »
We know from the telephone conversation between June and Pam that Sheila had just gone upstairs to bed. This was after they all had dinner.

The stomach contents indicate that Sheila must have got out of bed later that night and got food from the kitchen. This is also where the rifle and amunition was left.


By the time the police entered the building. The rifle was upstairs with Sheila who also had no panties on. But there was a pair of bloody painties left in the kitchen.


Once again the pieces all fit together.
Not necessarily. She could have kept fruit or other snack in her room.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Discrepancy Of The Stomach Contents
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2018, 06:15:PM »
Partially digested stomach contents of Sheila Caffell in the absence of the state of play regarding the stomach contents of any of the other four victims, suggests that at the time of post mortems that the pathologist must have been satisfied that Sheila had lived longer than the other victims, a view consistent with him believing that the shootings were four murders and a suicide, where Sheila shot and killed the other four victims...

I am not saying that the pathologist was entirely happy with Sheila having then taken her own life - I have a sneaky feeling he knew that Sheila had not shot herself twice using the same gun. I think he must have known that the two bullets he took from Sheila's body had been fired from two different guns! I arrive at this conclusion because he has shown little concern regarding the fact that the small piece of a badly fragmented bullet he recovered from Sheila's neck, bearing his signed exhibit reference PV/20, was not the same bullet which was examined by the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, by mid - September 1985, and which was also exhibited during the trial, as a whole bullet! Questions need to be asked and answers obtained regarding who had interfered with the non fatally fired bullet across and into Sheila Caffell's neck, with a trajectory from the right hand side of her neck to left? Well, it shouldn't be too difficult for any would be internal police enquiry to get to the truth because cops, experts from the Lab' and the prosecutor were all claiming that Sheila's death had been a one gun crime! But, if it were true, why did they have to tamper with one of the two bullets she was shot with, and by?

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...