Author Topic: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...  (Read 25686 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2018, 01:35:PM »
But that wasn't his main concern in that last letter, but June's influence over them.







 It wasn't June he was most concerned about.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2018, 01:38:PM »
I asked you the reason why Colin asked for sole control of his sons. Why was that ?

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2018, 01:40:PM »






 It wasn't June he was most concerned about.

It was certainly concern about June which was the main thrust of his letter to Nevill. Indeed, I think the focus of the letter was about how he wanted them to be treated during their stay with her. I believe he speaks about how good it was to see Sheila's improvement.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2018, 01:40:PM »
Leaving aside her mental state, she was probably -if her various career attempts are anything to go by- psychologically flaky. Possibly because she'd had little experience of running a home and family without outside help. Possibly because she simply wasn't interested. It was certainly more unusual then, than now, for a mother not to have full custody of her children, but I'm willing to bet Sheila wasn't the only such case.





" Psychologically flaky " isn't a valid reason for not wanting children being alone with their mother.
Let's have the truth !! 

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2018, 01:41:PM »
Mothers who suffer from depression aren't given such an ultimatum.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2018, 01:44:PM »
There had been sheer desperation in Colin's letter-------if you have the ability to read between lines.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2018, 01:44:PM »
There's no date on this, but this is the letter. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2762.0.html

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2018, 01:46:PM »
I asked you the reason why Colin asked for sole control of his sons. Why was that ?

And I told you what I thought it may have been. Being an adoring mother isn't necessarily being a good one. I've called her flaky. Is it impossible that she may have had Short Term Memory Syndrome? I know a single, very loving mother who has this and before she had a partner she had a whole team of social workers helping her to cope with her two boys daily needs.

Offline maggie

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2018, 01:47:PM »

Why would she have had thoughts about the possibility of losing the boys? Colin had them already. She had unlimited access. Why would their going away be any different from when they were with Colin during the week?
Surely no one can answer these questons unless we know the true state of Sheila's mind at that time. A young woman who I have known from a very early age had a child and is now suffering from post partem psychosis, she is 'stabalised' on medication but totally unpredictable and chaotic.  Her parents have moved house so both she and her son can live with them because the daughter is unfit to be left alone to care for the child. She does nothing for her son who is now school age and in fact her parents have custody of the boy although she believes they have joint custody.  All  cases are different but the assumption that Sheila was in any way capable of caring for the boys doesn't mean she was but at the same time the assumption that Sheila was happy with Colin having the boys 100% of the time is also unproven. She may have hated and resented the situation blaming June and Nevill for the situation therefore was easily tipped over the edge by the complete loss of them for 2 weeks. It's a long time to not see your young children  at the best of timrs and and Sheila's mental health may have been 'stabalised' but that doesn't mean her reasoning was predictable and responsible by normal standards.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2018, 01:49:PM »
There had been sheer desperation in Colin's letter-------if you have the ability to read between lines.

But however much you want it to read that way, it was JUNE -not Sheila- who was the focus of his concern. He was probably aware that Sheila would be unlikely to oppose her. He was more concerned about what effect it would have on the boys that about what it would do to Sheila, I think.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2018, 01:52:PM »
Thanks Steve. That man was desperate and very concerned to the point of expressing real fear.

Had he known or had some sort of premonition that something dreadful was going to happen ? I very much think so.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2018, 01:53:PM »
Certain things stay in my mind and that was one of them. You do have to fear for him.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2018, 01:54:PM »
Surely no one can answer these questons unless we know the true state of Sheila's mind at that time. A young woman who I have known from a very early age had a child and is now suffering from post partem psychosis, she is 'stabalised' on medication but totally unpredictable and chaotic.  Her parents have moved house so both she and her son can live with them because the daughter is unfit to be left alone to care for the child. She does nothing for her son who is now school age and in fact her parents have custody of the boy although she believes they have joint custody.  All  cases are different but the assumption that Sheila was in any way capable of caring for the boys doesn't mean she was but at the same time the assumption that Sheila was happy with Colin having the boys 100% of the time is also unproven. She may have hated and resented the situation blaming June and Nevill for the situation therefore was easily tipped over the edge by the complete loss of them for 2 weeks. It's a long time to not see your young children  at the best of timrs and and Sheila's mental health may have been 'stabalised' but that doesn't mean her reasoning was predictable and responsible by normal standards.

I'm assuming nothing of the sort. I suspect she was decidedly INcapable of caring for children.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2018, 01:58:PM »
Surely no one can answer these questons unless we know the true state of Sheila's mind at that time. A young woman who I have known from a very early age had a child and is now suffering from post partem psychosis, she is 'stabalised' on medication but totally unpredictable and chaotic.  Her parents have moved house so both she and her son can live with them because the daughter is unfit to be left alone to care for the child. She does nothing for her son who is now school age and in fact her parents have custody of the boy although she believes they have joint custody.  All  cases are different but the assumption that Sheila was in any way capable of caring for the boys doesn't mean she was but at the same time the assumption that Sheila was happy with Colin having the boys 100% of the time is also unproven. She may have hated and resented the situation blaming June and Nevill for the situation therefore was easily tipped over the edge by the complete loss of them for 2 weeks. It's a long time to not see your young children  at the best of timrs and and Sheila's mental health may have been 'stabalised' but that doesn't mean her reasoning was predictable and responsible by normal standards.
But was she guilty of neglect or was she wilfully harming them? My opinion is the former. She had care and control of her sons at weekends and this arrangement seemed to work perfectly fine. It was June who used her weekly trip to London to cajole her grandsons into making unscheduled trips to White House Farm, overriding both Sheila and Colin's wishes on the subject.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Bible - secrets of the tragedy...
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2018, 02:01:PM »
A few mothers can be deemed " incapable " but it's not to say that with help from the right quarters that these mothers can't make a go of it.
Sheila by the sound of things was beyond help and I would have said a risk particularly as it had been said that her health had deteriorated on her last admission to St Andrews given the mental state she'd been in at that time.