Author Topic: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.  (Read 13337 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2018, 12:03:PM »
Yes, but  your argument wasn't in respect to clod cases, just because the defendant isn't well liked, isn't a reason to chuck out witness testimony. His own should have be strong enough to stand the test - it wasn't and he was convicted.





I would have said that this case,being years old,was/is a cold case ?

If it can ever be proved that the witnesses were indeed prejudiced then the case can end up null and void.
Wasn't there a woman/neighbour of the Bambers shouting  ( in court ? ) a Mrs Kempen,in disagreement to the prosecution witnesses ? Unfortunately I don't know much about this incident but it's more likely that a near neighbour knew the family more than others who weren't regular visitors.

Offline Caroline

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2018, 12:40:PM »




I would have said that this case,being years old,was/is a cold case ?

If it can ever be proved that the witnesses were indeed prejudiced then the case can end up null and void.
Wasn't there a woman/neighbour of the Bambers shouting  ( in court ? ) a Mrs Kempen,in disagreement to the prosecution witnesses ? Unfortunately I don't know much about this incident but it's more likely that a near neighbour knew the family more than others who weren't regular visitors.

I am sure you don't believe that, on the strength of 'some woman' shouting in court (which I have never heard before), they should all have packed up and gone home? Does my 'near neighbour' know more about me then my family? Most certainly not. The Bambers were private people and not fodder for nosey neighbours.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2018, 12:43:PM »




I would have said that this case,being years old,was/is a cold case ?

If it can ever be proved that the witnesses were indeed prejudiced then the case can end up null and void.
Wasn't there a woman/neighbour of the Bambers shouting  ( in court ? ) a Mrs Kempen,in disagreement to the prosecution witnesses ? Unfortunately I don't know much about this incident but it's more likely that a near neighbour knew the family more than others who weren't regular visitors.

Near neighbours? (other than those who lived in the farm cottages, themselves some distance from WHF, there were none) Friends? Relatives? It makes no difference. None of us is privy to what goes on behind other people's doors once they're closed. People who shout out in courts are generally seen as nuisance factors, rather than deliverers of true facts.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2018, 01:06:PM »
Near neighbours? (other than those who lived in the farm cottages, themselves some distance from WHF, there were none) Friends? Relatives? It makes no difference. None of us is privy to what goes on behind other people's doors once they're closed. People who shout out in courts are generally seen as nuisance factors, rather than deliverers of true facts.





One of the relatives was ushered from the courtroom.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2018, 01:09:PM »
If the evidence was circumstantial where's the written inference to it ? Like the end result as in guilty ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2018, 01:12:PM »




One of the relatives was ushered from the courtroom.

That's where shouting in court gets you.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2018, 01:12:PM »
If the evidence was circumstantial where's the written inference to it ? Like the end result as in guilty ?

Not sure what you mean?
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Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2018, 01:15:PM »
Not sure what you mean?





There still has to be evidence of fact even in circumstantial evidence though I haven't read of this " fact " in the verdict.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2018, 01:16:PM »
NGB may put me right re.this.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2018, 01:36:PM »




There still has to be evidence of fact even in circumstantial evidence though I haven't read of this " fact " in the verdict.

Circumstantial evidence is that which relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact such as a SOC fingerprint.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2018, 01:38:PM »
Circumstantial evidence is that which relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact such as a SOC fingerprint.





One fingerprint doesn't prove a mass murder.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2018, 01:39:PM »
Circumstantial evidence is NOT fact !

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2018, 01:46:PM »




One fingerprint doesn't prove a mass murder.

I don't know where it was inferred that it did? The key words in the explanatory sentence being "such as".

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2018, 01:48:PM »
Circumstantial evidence is NOT fact !

You're correct!  According to the dictionary definition, it's evidence which relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. It's used -and accepted- in many trials.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:01:PM by Jane J »

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2018, 02:02:PM »
You're correct! It's evidence which relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. It's used -and accepted- in many trials.






It's a questionable acceptance at many trials though, methinks where there isn't beyond reasonable doubt.