Author Topic: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.  (Read 1618 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 11:21:PM »




Susan May had  already lost two appeals through a system riddled in red-tape and bureaucracy with the CoA unwilling to investigate MOJ's which leaves the CCRC redundant.

Lack of funds is the enemy which in effect creates a lack of power in which to carry out the mounting feasibilities of potential MOJ's---------which the commission was meant for. Surely they can sort the wheat from the chaff as regards chancers ?

Lack of funds and too many cases - recipe for disaster. The CCRC was established for good reason but it's lost it's way.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 06:13:AM »
Lack of funds and too many cases - recipe for disaster. The CCRC was established for good reason but it's lost it's way.

Funds eaten up by those cases which have caused them to take the 'up the garden path' route?

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 07:37:AM »
Funds eaten up by those cases which have caused them to take the 'up the garden path' route?






It shouldn't really be that easy to be " led up the garden path " where a mass crime is committed don't you think ?

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 07:58:AM »
If you want my personal opinion about funding miscreants I'd prefer to see it being ploughed into the NHS/Research where lives matter most as well as to those whose special skills help to mend those lives.

Crime is crime and has always been there to solve without the aid/need of extra funding but with the high cost of specialised high-tech. equipment used within the NHS for the varying illnesses/injuries,this is where any extra money should be going and not to solve crimes where brain-power should be sufficient.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 07:59:AM »





It shouldn't really be that easy to be " led up the garden path " where a mass crime is committed don't you think ?


No, it 'shouldn't', but I've expressed views on "shouldn't" numerous time. IMO. it's a word which serves little purpose. We've all been in situations when our work load has been so great we haven't known what to do first. It's usually during those times when errors occur. Where there are humans, there is likely to be fallibility. Where there are too few humans doing too much work loaded onto them by other humans, the fallibility is likely to be greater.

I truly don't know what the answer is, in this case -there is clearly more to the problem than Jeremy Bamber- other than setting up sub committees to root out those cases which are bogus BEFORE the CCRC sees them, but who's to say that would meet with approval, and who's to say that such isn't open to corruption? There is NOTHING which isn't open to corruption. I just believe that MOST people are honest.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2018, 08:24:AM »

No, it 'shouldn't', but I've expressed views on "shouldn't" numerous time. IMO. it's a word which serves little purpose. We've all been in situations when our work load has been so great we haven't known what to do first. It's usually during those times when errors occur. Where there are humans, there is likely to be fallibility. Where there are too few humans doing too much work loaded onto them by other humans, the fallibility is likely to be greater.

I truly don't know what the answer is, in this case -there is clearly more to the problem than Jeremy Bamber- other than setting up sub committees to root out those cases which are bogus BEFORE the CCRC sees them, but who's to say that would meet with approval, and who's to say that such isn't open to corruption? There is NOTHING which isn't open to corruption. I just believe that MOST people are honest.






Complex cases such as the Bamber one and others which are similar that don't show any direct forensic evidence should be put in order of priority. There can't be that many "bogus offenders" who plead innocent when clearly they aren't, but to continue fighting for 33 years needs looking into to my mind.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2018, 08:44:AM »
What the programme did highlight was the same " theme " of lost/destroyed/withheld paperwork and also poor forensic work.
As with any crime the first on the scene are the police and it's down to their skill and experience to work out the scenario as it happened followed by a forensic science team to verify the findings both teams working together.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2018, 08:47:AM »
There shouldn't be any need for a " middleman " such as the CCRC if the police do their job properly.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2018, 09:04:AM »
If you want my personal opinion about funding miscreants I'd prefer to see it being ploughed into the NHS/Research where lives matter most as well as to those whose special skills help to mend those lives.

Crime is crime and has always been there to solve without the aid/need of extra funding but with the high cost of specialised high-tech. equipment used within the NHS for the varying illnesses/injuries,this is where any extra money should be going and not to solve crimes where brain-power should be sufficient.


I can fully support that.







Complex cases such as the Bamber one and others which are similar that don't show any direct forensic evidence should be put in order of priority. There can't be that many "bogus offenders" who plead innocent when clearly they aren't, but to continue fighting for 33 years needs looking into to my mind.


I guess it comes down to how they judge "priority". From the number quoted last night of cases awaiting attention, I'm inclined to think that it's being suggested the majority might be bogus.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 09:15:AM »
What the programme did highlight was the same " theme " of lost/destroyed/withheld paperwork and also poor forensic work.
As with any crime the first on the scene are the police and it's down to their skill and experience to work out the scenario as it happened followed by a forensic science team to verify the findings both teams working together.


Yes, there seems to have been corruption -although the person accused appears to have denied such.

I imagine it's easier for police to do their job when they approach it with an open mind. In the Bamber case, such was impossible because of the information given by Jeremy. If information was passed from SOC to forensics, it would all have been a repeat of what Jeremy had said. They had no other source. They trusted him.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 09:32:AM »

Yes, there seems to have been corruption -although the person accused appears to have denied such.

I imagine it's easier for police to do their job when they approach it with an open mind. In the Bamber case, such was impossible because of the information given by Jeremy. If information was passed from SOC to forensics, it would all have been a repeat of what Jeremy had said. They had no other source. They trusted him.





This is just it-------when there is "no other source" is when extra digging/investigating is required and shouldn't be a given that the most obvious is the killer.

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 09:37:AM »
An example was last night's programme where Kevin Lane's background was one of violence-----but it doesn't say that his violence led to murder.
JB's background was allegedly greed,but again it doesn't mean that he killed the family for money or even killed the family at all so what else do you have ?

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 09:39:AM »
Not all violent people commit murder and not all greedy people commit murder. The spectrum is much wider and far more complex.

Offline Jane

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 09:46:AM »




This is just it-------when there is "no other source" is when extra digging/investigating is required and shouldn't be a given that the most obvious is the killer.

Oh, I agree, but given Jeremy's background and the way in which he presented himself, it was almost guaranteed that his word would be accepted in a way that Kevin Lane's might not have been. Here we have a combination of conditioning and fallibility, and we mustn't leave out the 'biggie' -our own prejudices- I believe you hinted last night that people who use babies to bolster support for them may not be who they're presenting themselves as being? Naturally, I'm certain there are cases where this maybe so......................but WHICH cases?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 09:51:AM by Jane J »

Offline lookout

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Re: BBC 1 Tonight---" Last chance for Justice ". Panorama @ 7.30pm.
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2018, 11:16:AM »
Oh, I agree, but given Jeremy's background and the way in which he presented himself, it was almost guaranteed that his word would be accepted in a way that Kevin Lane's might not have been. Here we have a combination of conditioning and fallibility, and we mustn't leave out the 'biggie' -our own prejudices- I believe you hinted last night that people who use babies to bolster support for them may not be who they're presenting themselves as being? Naturally, I'm certain there are cases where this maybe so......................but WHICH cases?





Indeed,it would take an experienced person and not one who " goes by the book " to look out for the behaviours/signs of those who have offended against those who haven't.