Author Topic: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?  (Read 1395 times)

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Luminous Wanderer

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Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« on: April 13, 2018, 11:26:PM »
I may need to reach for my tin foil hat, and I hesitate to say this as I’m not naturally one for conspiracy theories, but is it completely inconceivable that Essex Police, or perhaps the Metropolitan Police, might have recruited a civilian or even assigned one of their own officers to post on boards like this and promote an anti-Bamber perspective, the aim being to divert and discourage discussion?  You can imagine that such an operator would be obnoxious and repetitive, and would lie about the case and flame other posters.  Another intriguing thought is that some of the screen handles on here might not be just one individual, but might be several perhaps working to an organised agenda.

It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds.  The Israeli Defence Force have a very large social media operation: their operators are known as hasbara.

I know quite a lot about the police and the way they work internally, and they do have covert media operations and, if there is a significant cover-up of wrong-doing, then it wouldn’t surprise me if they have individuals on the payroll to ‘manage perceptions’ and alert them to case developments.

Probably not, I’m probably allowing my imagination to run away with me.  It’s just a thought.

What does prompt me to think along those lines is that, I have to say this, some anti-Bamber posters seem like very queer people.  I’m neutral about Jeremy Bamber, but I can well understand somebody like Mike becoming committed to overturning the conviction.  It’s the sort of thing that people do campaign about, and I’m willing to give people like Mike and Nigel considerable leeway because I can comprehend why somebody would become impassioned in such a cause. 

What’s baffling me is the other side of it.  It’s not as usual for people to become obsessed with wanting to keep somebody in prison and suppress or divert discussion of the case and lie about it – unless you’re a member of the family or working for the police, then it would make sense.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 11:30:PM by Luminous Wanderer »

Offline David1819

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 11:45:PM »
Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?

Yes that's plainly obvious.

What’s baffling me is the other side of it.  It’s not as usual for people to become obsessed with wanting to keep somebody in prison and suppress or divert discussion of the case and lie about it – unless you’re a member of the family or working for the police, then it would make sense.

Some members on here have contact with Jeremys extended family to some extent or another.

One member here has met Julie Mugford in person.





Luminous Wanderer

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 12:34:AM »
Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?

Yes that's plainly obvious.

Some members on here have contact with Jeremys extended family to some extent or another.

One member here has met Julie Mugford in person.

Thanks.  I thought that would be the case!  Otherwise, it's pretty queer behaviour in some quarters.

Offline lookout

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 09:49:AM »
Pity the same weren't behind the release next month of Colin Pitchfork whose murders had been PROVEN and whose home town is within a short distance to where the relatives of the victims live. Where are the " gangs " who are stopping/blocking his release. ? Are there stark differences between murderers, or isn't it financially viable regarding support in Pitchforks case  ??  This is a man/monster who will commit murder again !!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 12:44:PM »
I may need to reach for my tin foil hat, and I hesitate to say this as I’m not naturally one for conspiracy theories, but is it completely inconceivable that Essex Police, or perhaps the Metropolitan Police, might have recruited a civilian or even assigned one of their own officers to post on boards like this and promote an anti-Bamber perspective, the aim being to divert and discourage discussion?  You can imagine that such an operator would be obnoxious and repetitive, and would lie about the case and flame other posters.  Another intriguing thought is that some of the screen handles on here might not be just one individual, but might be several perhaps working to an organised agenda.

It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds.  The Israeli Defence Force have a very large social media operation: their operators are known as hasbara.

I know quite a lot about the police and the way they work internally, and they do have covert media operations and, if there is a significant cover-up of wrong-doing, then it wouldn’t surprise me if they have individuals on the payroll to ‘manage perceptions’ and alert them to case developments.

Probably not, I’m probably allowing my imagination to run away with me.  It’s just a thought.

What does prompt me to think along those lines is that, I have to say this, some anti-Bamber posters seem like very queer people.  I’m neutral about Jeremy Bamber, but I can well understand somebody like Mike becoming committed to overturning the conviction.  It’s the sort of thing that people do campaign about, and I’m willing to give people like Mike and Nigel considerable leeway because I can comprehend why somebody would become impassioned in such a cause. 

What’s baffling me is the other side of it.  It’s not as usual for people to become obsessed with wanting to keep somebody in prison and suppress or divert discussion of the case and lie about it – unless you’re a member of the family or working for the police, then it would make sense.
Maybe you are the obsessive here and not people who as you say have been posting for years, seeing people come and go, encouraging debate but most importantly making friends whom we would never disparage in a way you always seem to intimate in your writings.

Your latest disparagement comes as no surprise. Since you are a Johnny-come-lately (as you only too readily admit) let me explain my rationale behind posting on this site for years.

I'm from a neighbourhood very close to where Julie went to grammar school, we ended up choosing the same career in the mid-1980s and even working for the same employer in London when opportunities were limited in the North, when the savage cuts imposed by the Conservative government of the time began to bite.

I have never met her (which clears up one point made by david 1819, a member who is on the opposite side of the fence to myself but with whom I have had very few problems). I have been Julie's harshest critic over the years, to which my various threads attest, but there is one aspect of the Bamber case I may be able to shed light on from a personal perspective.

The education system of the 1980s was a victim of the prevailing selfishness of the time, mainly emanating from the top, and the result was a sharp deterioration in the behaviour of pupils at all levels. This has, to some extent, been rectified today, but if I take you back to a classroom of the 1980s you would find a small handful of wilful, unruly pupils who spoilt it for the rest, and which Senior Management had very little strategies in place for dealing with, let alone the teacher based in the classroom.

I am labouring this background information because it has a direct relevance to the Bamber case. It's actually ngb1066's pet topic (along with the News of the World deal) and if the case wasn't so intrinsically serious I would manage a wry smile every time it's mentioned to malign Julie, though nowadays all it brings forth is a grimace on my world-weary face.

I am alluding, of course, to the prescription Julie requested from the doctor at Lewisham in October 1984 to relieve what I believed to be tension type headaches. Of course the insinuation always is by the pro-Bamber supporters that she procured these tablets with the express intention of colluding with Jeremy's plan to drug his parents, simultaneously burning down the Farm. It was the plot Jeremy indirectly alluded to to Charles Marsden in The Frog and Beans shortly before Christmas 1984, but once again this evidence is dismissed by the Jeremy lovers.

I am here to tell you now that I knew personally several members of staff who were on medication of such a description. I could go into further detail but will desist, except to say it was not uncommon for female members of staff to put on weight, or male menbers to binge drink at weekends. Several members took early retirement after corporal punishment was abolished in 1986.

There is therefore in my opinion no sinister motive for Julie requesting sleeping tablets, and anyway credit her with enough sense to know that such mild tranquillizers dissolved in a gin and tonic would as likely as not be ineffectual. June had her own medication anyway and would be unlikely to drink anything her son proffered her.

I don't mind your imagination running away with you (as you put it) as long as there are not snide accompanying remarks. The double entendre of "queer" may or may not be a case in point. It is to members' credit here that never in the whole history of my time here has anyone made any snide remark about Jeremy's alleged liaison with Brett Collins even though they may have been tempted so to do.

There are parameters on this website which you are perpetually bordering on and may well yet again have crossed. A tin hat? You need a Faraday cage.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 05:40:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Roch

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 01:35:PM »
Some do have an agenda, in the sense that they deliberately and actively support the surviving relatives, by way of denial and avoidance of certain case evidence.  In doing so, they disrespect the relatives who were killed.  The surviving relatives do not want the true circs of the killings to come to light - as this would undermine the conviction of Jeremy and expose their own wrongdoing in the process. You can support the surviving relatives or you respect the slain relatives - but you cannot do both.   

Offline maggie

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2018, 01:59:PM »
I may need to reach for my tin foil hat, and I hesitate to say this as I’m not naturally one for conspiracy theories, but is it completely inconceivable that Essex Police, or perhaps the Metropolitan Police, might have recruited a civilian or even assigned one of their own officers to post on boards like this and promote an anti-Bamber perspective, the aim being to divert and discourage discussion?  You can imagine that such an operator would be obnoxious and repetitive, and would lie about the case and flame other posters.  Another intriguing thought is that some of the screen handles on here might not be just one individual, but might be several perhaps working to an organised agenda.

It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds.  The Israeli Defence Force have a very large social media operation: their operators are known as hasbara.

I know quite a lot about the police and the way they work internally, and they do have covert media operations and, if there is a significant cover-up of wrong-doing, then it wouldn’t surprise me if they have individuals on the payroll to ‘manage perceptions’ and alert them to case developments.

Probably not, I’m probably allowing my imagination to run away with me.  It’s just a thought.

What does prompt me to think along those lines is that, I have to say this, some anti-Bamber posters seem like very queer people.  I’m neutral about Jeremy Bamber, but I can well understand somebody like Mike becoming committed to overturning the conviction.  It’s the sort of thing that people do campaign about, and I’m willing to give people like Mike and Nigel considerable leeway because I can comprehend why somebody would become impassioned in such a cause. 

What’s baffling me is the other side of it.  It’s not as usual for people to become obsessed with wanting to keep somebody in prison and suppress or divert discussion of the case and lie about it – unless you’re a member of the family or working for the police, then it would make sense.
We don't know who is posting on here LW, many people use an avatars and conceal their true identity. It is however against forum rules to speculate on another poster's identity or to expose them on the open forum in some way. Anyone with real reservations is welcome to pm Ngb or myself with details. We are all aware that anyone can post on the forum a s long as Admin accepts their application to join.

Luminous Wanderer

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2018, 08:06:PM »
Maybe you are the obsessive here and not people who as you say have been posting for years, seeing people come and go, encouraging debate but most importantly making friends whom we would never disparage in a way you always seem to intimate in your writings.

Your latest disparagement comes as no surprise. Since you are a Johnny-come-lately (as you only too readily admit) let me explain my rationale behind posting on this site for years.

I'm from a neighbourhood very close to where Julie went to grammar school, we ended up choosing the same career in the mid-1980s and even working for the same employer in London when opportunities were limited in the North, when the savage cuts imposed by the Conservative government of the time began to bite.

I have never met her (which clears up one point made by david 1819, a member who is on the opposite side of the fence to myself but with whom I have had very few problems). I have been Julie's harshest critic over the years, to which my various threads attest, but there is one aspect of the Bamber case I may be able to shed light on from a personal perspective.

The education system of the 1980s was a victim of the prevailing selfishness of the time, mainly emanating from the top, and the result was a sharp deterioration in the behaviour of pupils at all levels. This has, to some extent, been rectified today, but if I take you back to a classroom of the 1980s you would find a small handful of wilful, unruly pupils who spoilt it for the rest, and which Senior Management had very little strategies in place for dealing with, let alone the teacher based in the classroom.

I am labouring this background information because it has a direct relevance to the Bamber case. It's actually ngb1066's pet topic (along with the News of the World deal) and if the case wasn't so intrinsically serious I would manage a wry smile every time it's mentioned to malign Julie, though nowadays all it brings forth is a grimace on my world-weary face.

I am alluding, of course, to the prescription Julie requested from the doctor at Lewisham in October 1984 to relieve what I believed to be tension type headaches. Of course the insinuation always is by the pro-Bamber supporters that she procured these tablets with the express intention of colluding with Jeremy's plan to drug his parents, simultaneously burning down the Farm. It was the plot Jeremy indirectly alluded to to Charles Marsden in The Frog and Beans shortly before Christmas 1984, but once again this evidence is dismissed by the Jeremy lovers.

I am here to tell you now that I knew personally several members of staff who were on medication of such a description. I could go into further detail but will desist, except to say it was not uncommon for female members of staff to put on weight, or male menbers to binge drink at weekends. Several members took early retirement after corporal punishment was abolished in 1986.

There is therefore in my opinion no sinister motive for Julie requesting sleeping tablets, and anyway credit her with enough sense to know that such mild tranquillizers dissolved in a gin and tonic would as likely as not be ineffectual. June had her own medication anyway and would be unlikely to drink anything her son proffered her.

I don't mind your imagination running away with you (as you put it) as long as there are not snide accompanying remarks. The double entendre of "queer" may or may not be a case in point. It is to members' credit here that never in the whole history of my time here has anyone made any snide remark about Jeremy's alleged liaison with Brett Collins even though they may have been tempted so to do.

There are parameters on this website which you are perpetually bordering on and may well yet again have crossed. A tin hat? You need a Faraday cage.

It's always funny how some posters, in an attempt to rebut what I say, actually reinforce it.  This lengthy, rambling post from Steve is a perfect example.

Offline lookout

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2018, 09:00:PM »
I enjoy reading Steve's posts because they're written without malice for starters. Secondly he is his " own person " and doesn't have to follow anyone in particular which causes friction in those whose aim it is to " get them on side ". Steve is a harmless character who also isn't afraid to give vent on his own views of the case------which is fine.

Luminous Wanderer

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2018, 09:24:PM »
I enjoy reading Steve's posts because they're written without malice for starters.

I don't and they're not written without malice.  His posts are full of assumptions.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 09:25:PM »
I enjoy reading Steve's posts because they're written without malice for starters. Secondly he is his " own person " and doesn't have to follow anyone in particular which causes friction in those whose aim it is to " get them on side ". Steve is a harmless character who also isn't afraid to give vent on his own views of the case------which is fine.
And lookout is the same-an independent poster who doesn't constantly need to tap other people's brains for inspiration.

Luminous Wanderer

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 09:32:PM »
And lookout is the same-an independent poster who doesn't constantly need to tap other people's brains for inspiration.

No, you plagiarise cheap true-crime writers instead.  You treat as fact what you read in a popular book that a biased author has written about the case.  For you, this forum is a sort of gossip shop.  You're a lightweight.  I also don't accept that your posts are without malice, and I don't believe you contribute anything here.  I think your posts are full of assumptions and I don't believe you have given any serious thought to this case beyond that you don't like Jeremy Bamber.

Of course, that's your right - I just wish you'd get off my case.

What causes these tensions is different people have different ideas about what these forums are for.  To an extent, we're at cross-purposes.  To me, a forum such as this is about honest discussion of the case and that involves collaboration, but collaboration isn't possible among people who are dishonest in the first place or who don't understand evidence.  I can't have a sensible discussion with Adam, for instance, because he's a one-trick pony, entrenched in his views and inherently dishonest. 

To give you credit, at least you don't put on any pretence that you're serious.  Adam does, even thought he isn't.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 09:33:PM by Luminous Wanderer »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2018, 09:53:PM »
No, you plagiarise cheap true-crime writers instead.  You treat as fact what you read in a popular book that a biased author has written about the case.  For you, this forum is a sort of gossip shop.  You're a lightweight.  I also don't accept that your posts are without malice, and I don't believe you contribute anything here.  I think your posts are full of assumptions and I don't believe you have given any serious thought to this case beyond that you don't like Jeremy Bamber.

Of course, that's your right - I just wish you'd get off my case.

What causes these tensions is different people have different ideas about what these forums are for.  To an extent, we're at cross-purposes.  To me, a forum such as this is about honest discussion of the case and that involves collaboration, but collaboration isn't possible among people who are dishonest in the first place or who don't understand evidence.  I can't have a sensible discussion with Adam, for instance, because he's a one-trick pony, entrenched in his views and inherently dishonest. 

To give you credit, at least you don't put on any pretence that you're serious.  Adam does, even thought he isn't.
And you look at the mote in others but don't see the beam in your own eye. Only one other poster has ever accused me of plagiarism and he left pretty sharpish years ago.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2018, 10:17:PM »
Some do have an agenda, in the sense that they deliberately and actively support the surviving relatives, by way of denial and avoidance of certain case evidence.  In doing so, they disrespect the relatives who were killed. The surviving relatives do not want the true circs of the killings to come to light - as this would undermine the conviction of Jeremy and expose their own wrongdoing in the process. You can support the surviving relatives or you respect the slain relatives - but you cannot do both.   
You see another major reason I'm here and why you and Luminous Wanderer won't get rid of me is that I'm also Colin's unofficial advocate, as well as attempting to reassure Julie that she's entitled to get on with the rest of her life without undue harrassment.

Not to make this personal but have members here considered what Colin has endured for 33 years simply because Bamber refuses to confess, quite apart from the trauma of losing his boys?  All credit to him for picking up the shards of his shattered life and carrying on, giving help to other victims of this type of nightmare in workshops all around the world, as well as constructing the most moving pieces of art, in contrast to the destructive urge Jeremy has mainly manifested ever since incarceration.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 10:18:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline maggie

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Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2018, 10:57:PM »
You see another major reason I'm here and why you and Luminous Wanderer won't get rid of me is that I'm also Colin's unofficial advocate, as well as attempting to reassure Julie that she's entitled to get on with the rest of her life without undue harrassment.

Not to make this personal but have members here considered what Colin has endured for 33 years simply because Bamber refuses to confess, quite apart from the trauma of losing his boys?  All credit to him for picking up the shards of his shattered life and carrying on, giving help to other victims of this type of nightmare in workshops all around the world, as well as constructing the most moving pieces of art, in contrast to the destructive urge Jeremy has mainly manifested ever since incarceration.
Imo it makes no difference whether it is believed JB is innocent or guilty.  Colin Caffell deserves deep respect whoever killed his boys. I doubt in the end who killed them is the issue for Colin, should think it will always be the loss of his beloved boys and the loss of their lives which is so hard to bear.  I have enormous respect for the way he dealt with it as I'm sure every other decent person has.  There can be no question about that.
As for JM she behaved rather less well in many respects,  JB innocent or guilty her behavour was and is questionable
 Again if JB is innocent then her behavour is unforgiveable.  I believe in the benefit of the doubt and the fact anyone can make a mistake particularly when young.  I also believe in having an open mind wicj is the reason some of us question those who have closed minds when there are still so many unanswered questions.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 08:11:AM by maggie »