Author Topic: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"  (Read 721 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2018, 07:16:PM »
I will give you a straight answer when any question you ask of me permits. Thus far, all you asked of me is to verify or deny your own beliefs. They're NOT my beliefs and I feel unable to judge what I consider to be, at best, hypothetical. I really have no answer for why 6000 people would sign a petition about something so tenuous, other than to suggest that there are many more who haven't.

"Your problem is..........." Ha!! How I'd love just 1p for every time I've heard that. I'm nothing, if not true to myself, Lookout, and I refuse to be coerced..............but your anger is beginning to show.






My word do you always think you're right  ::) Anger ? I haven't got an ounce of anger in my body and what's more I can't muster up any either. I have a placid disposition and don't resort to anger--------it's bad for the soul.
I might get frustrated now and again caused by the stupidity of others,but never angry-------I'll leave that to you.

I'd asked you a perfectly straightforward question but as per you've skirted around it--------again. ::)

Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 07:18:PM »
Those more intelligent than yourself,who find JB guilty have added that the trial was unfair. They're not blinkered or on a mission you see.

Offline Jane J

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 07:43:PM »





My word do you always think you're right  ::) Anger ? I haven't got an ounce of anger in my body and what's more I can't muster up any either. I have a placid disposition and don't resort to anger--------it's bad for the soul.
I might get frustrated now and again caused by the stupidity of others,but never angry-------I'll leave that to you.

I'd asked you a perfectly straightforward question but as per you've skirted around it--------again. ::)

There's that projection again, Lookout, and whilst you may perceive yourself as being without anger,
 I suspect those of us who've been on the receiving end of it see it rather differently. We're not always the best judges of our own behaviours. Placid? Believe me, you're not. Frustrated? I'm sure you are. When you ask me "a perfectly straightforward question" I'll be very happy to answer -thus far I think all you want is AN answer- but I can't and won't answer something I doubt the validity of -if only on the grounds that it just might turn round and bite me- any more than I can tell you what I'd do/how I'd act in a situation I have no experience of.

Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2018, 08:36:PM »
There's that projection again, Lookout, and whilst you may perceive yourself as being without anger,
 I suspect those of us who've been on the receiving end of it see it rather differently. We're not always the best judges of our own behaviours. Placid? Believe me, you're not. Frustrated? I'm sure you are. When you ask me "a perfectly straightforward question" I'll be very happy to answer -thus far I think all you want is AN answer- but I can't and won't answer something I doubt the validity of -if only on the grounds that it just might turn round and bite me- any more than I can tell you what I'd do/how I'd act in a situation I have no experience of.






So if there'd have been hanging in force,you'd have seen him hang because you have no doubts about the murder and thought it was a fair trial ? So now we know.
That's the big difference between you and I.!!

Offline Jane J

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2018, 08:42:PM »





So if there'd have been hanging in force,you'd have seen him hang because you have no doubts about the murder and thought it was a fair trial ? So now we know.
That's the big difference between you and I.!!

Ha! I guess, as you're all for the death penalty, you'd be there ahead of the crowd. Remember, I DON'T believe in a death penalty. THAT'S the big difference between us.

Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2018, 09:19:PM »
Ha! I guess, as you're all for the death penalty, you'd be there ahead of the crowd. Remember, I DON'T believe in a death penalty. THAT'S the big difference between us.






The biggest difference is that I'd ask for a second opinion-----------you WOULDN'T !!

Offline Caroline

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2018, 09:30:PM »





The biggest difference is that I'd ask for a second opinion-----------you WOULDN'T !!

From who?
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Jane J

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 09:36:PM »





The biggest difference is that I'd ask for a second opinion-----------you WOULDN'T !!

No you wouldn't. According to you, you're never wrong. You've said MANY times that if someone is guilty of murder they deserve the death penalty. WHAT would be the point of a second opinion if you believed they were guilty? No need, under the circumstances you're speaking of, for me to ask for a second opinion. In fact, I have little idea of what point you're trying to make here.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 09:38:PM by Jane J »

Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 10:21:PM »
No you wouldn't. According to you, you're never wrong. You've said MANY times that if someone is guilty of murder they deserve the death penalty. WHAT would be the point of a second opinion if you believed they were guilty? No need, under the circumstances you're speaking of, for me to ask for a second opinion. In fact, I have little idea of what point you're trying to make here.






Stop talking rubbish----it's you who believes that JB's guilty,not me and this is what this is all about. I simply asked YOU if YOU thought the original trial was unfair and instead of giving a straight answer you've dithered around posting all kinds of excuses aimed at me.
The reason you've lost the point is your own fault for not giving an answer in the first place as an intelligent person would have done.
 Mincing words cuts no ice with me.

Offline Jane J

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2018, 06:59:AM »





Stop talking rubbish----it's you who believes that JB's guilty,not me and this is what this is all about. I simply asked YOU if YOU thought the original trial was unfair and instead of giving a straight answer you've dithered around posting all kinds of excuses aimed at me.
The reason you've lost the point is your own fault for not giving an answer in the first place as an intelligent person would have done.
 Mincing words cuts no ice with me.

Actually, it ISN'T about JB. It's about "Murder, Mystery And My Family" which I'd hoped would be an interesting segway from JB as there's so little to say about it, but you hi-jacked it with your first post and dragged it right back to JB -you didn't so much lose the point of the thread, as bury it.

 However, had you asked a straightforward question, I'd have given you a straightforward answer, but every question you asked had an 'attachment' ie there ARE hidden documents, there ARE documents 'KNOWN' to be advantageous to Jeremy. If I'd been debating with an intelligent person that person would have formed the questions differently. Had that person asked me "IF there are documents hidden which could have been advantageous..............." I'd have answered.

 I think you maybe the wrong person to accuse others of lacking in intelligence. That, of anyone prepared to say someone is innocent -OR indeed, guilty- on nothing but gut instinct, has to be questionable.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 07:25:AM by Jane J »

Offline Roch

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2018, 10:40:AM »
A series in which family members ask barristers to reexamine cases in which ancestors were convicted and subsequently hanged. Their new findings are then presented to a judge who decides whether or not the conviction was safe. The conclusion is never foregone. One can feel quite sentimental -on behalf of relatives eager to clear a family name- about certain cases and very certain that the original decision will be overturned, but it's a very rare occurrence. The interesting part is listening to the two barristers, one for the defense and one for the prosecution, arguing from opposite corners but totally supportive of each other's submissions if either is challenged for not presenting what the family representative hoped they would.

A similar thing could happen in the Bamber case, very easily, in the event of a few more case-related deaths, including Jeremy's.  It would unlikely that family members would be involved - unless it was some of Jeremy's biological relatives.

Offline lookout

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2018, 11:03:AM »
Actually, it ISN'T about JB. It's about "Murder, Mystery And My Family" which I'd hoped would be an interesting segway from JB as there's so little to say about it, but you hi-jacked it with your first post and dragged it right back to JB -you didn't so much lose the point of the thread, as bury it.

 However, had you asked a straightforward question, I'd have given you a straightforward answer, but every question you asked had an 'attachment' ie there ARE hidden documents, there ARE documents 'KNOWN' to be advantageous to Jeremy. If I'd been debating with an intelligent person that person would have formed the questions differently. Had that person asked me "IF there are documents hidden which could have been advantageous..............." I'd have answered.

 I think you maybe the wrong person to accuse others of lacking in intelligence. That, of anyone prepared to say someone is innocent -OR indeed, guilty- on nothing but gut instinct, has to be questionable.






So it's alright for SJ to say that he had a gut instinct,but because it's me it's different ?
Anyway,neither you nor anyone else would understand or even TRY to understand why I've said JB is innocent.
I used a psychological stance when I first saw the case in 1985 and KNOWING that JB would be charged pretty well from day one,I followed his movements and manner and drew my own conclusions from thereon. To all,he was the OBVIOUS character in all this but my mind told me otherwise.
The long drawn-out case as it was and still is to my way of thinking is an unnecessary evil in my mind and only sets out to remind us that much deeper thought is needed  in working out these cases.

The programmes shown give an insight into how crimes/murders are solved and are an excellent way of showing how they can be solved by two very clever barristers through reading,studying and being thorough  in their findings. A modern day look at sentencing which is brought up to date but sadly there are still as many MOJ's as there were hangings,an estimated 800.

We now know why Sheila had no blood on her nightdress ? So why were police looking through JB's clothes hoping to find blood when it's the assailant who's blood-free ?
Nevill's clothing was also blood-free wasn't it ? Although guilters would have said he'd worn his garments as opposed to him not having worn them.
The programme leaves you with all kinds of ideas,but for me where I don't see JB at the scene,it means nothing and only involves those who were present after JB left for home.       

Offline Caroline

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2018, 11:46:AM »
A similar thing could happen in the Bamber case, very easily, in the event of a few more case-related deaths, including Jeremy's.  It would unlikely that family members would be involved - unless it was some of Jeremy's biological relatives.

So put him forward! He has no family left to support him - so why don't you put him forward. Bearing in mind that it has to be PROVEN that there is NEW evidence.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Caroline

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2018, 11:50:AM »





So it's alright for SJ to say that he had a gut instinct,but because it's me it's different ?
Anyway,neither you nor anyone else would understand or even TRY to understand why I've said JB is innocent.
I used a psychological stance when I first saw the case in 1985 and KNOWING that JB would be charged pretty well from day one,I followed his movements and manner and drew my own conclusions from thereon. To all,he was the OBVIOUS character in all this but my mind told me otherwise.
The long drawn-out case as it was and still is to my way of thinking is an unnecessary evil in my mind and only sets out to remind us that much deeper thought is needed  in working out these cases.

The programmes shown give an insight into how crimes/murders are solved and are an excellent way of showing how they can be solved by two very clever barristers through reading,studying and being thorough  in their findings. A modern day look at sentencing which is brought up to date but sadly there are still as many MOJ's as there were hangings,an estimated 800.

We now know why Sheila had no blood on her nightdress ? So why were police looking through JB's clothes hoping to find blood when it's the assailant who's blood-free ?
Nevill's clothing was also blood-free wasn't it ? Although guilters would have said he'd worn his garments as opposed to him not having worn them.
The programme leaves you with all kinds of ideas,but for me where I don't see JB at the scene,it means nothing and only involves those who were present after JB left for home.     

There is a BIG difference Lookout, SJ's 'gut feeling' was based on meeting Jeremy at the scene of his family's murder. His behaviour didn't sit right with him. Your 'gut feeling' could only have been based on a picture of him. Granted he doesn't look like the stereotypical murderer but then again, they usually don't.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Caroline

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Re: "Murder, Mystery And My Family"
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2018, 11:52:AM »
A series in which family members ask barristers to reexamine cases in which ancestors were convicted and subsequently hanged. Their new findings are then presented to a judge who decides whether or not the conviction was safe. The conclusion is never foregone. One can feel quite sentimental -on behalf of relatives eager to clear a family name- about certain cases and very certain that the original decision will be overturned, but it's a very rare occurrence. The interesting part is listening to the two barristers, one for the defense and one for the prosecution, arguing from opposite corners but totally supportive of each other's submissions if either is challenged for not presenting what the family representative hoped they would.

Been watching it on catch up, really interesting and really sad to think that so many people went to their deaths in this way. This is why I HATE the DP and I hope they NEVER bring it back!
100% GUILTY - No doubts!