Author Topic: Ineffective assistance of counsel?  (Read 4888 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 01:00:PM »

yes but most have a preference there normaly better at doing one than the other.






This is why the case was lost. No way can such a transition take place. It was a hopeless mess. Totally unfair from beginning to end.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2018, 01:15:PM »
as a proscuter most of the works done for you ver different with the defence.

the police find the witnesses for you and all the statements you have more less unlimted money and as most people plead guilty anyway most of the time you only have to turn up.

Offline David1819

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 01:22:PM »
He was a highly respected lawyer, not wet behind the ears. Most people on here spout on about what should or shouldn't have been mentioned, without having any real knowledge of the law (I've done it myself before anyone pipes up).

And your doing it again...

There are rules to what can be brought up and the manner in which it is approached. Half the stuff dragged up here would have been objected to and would very likely have made the case against Bamber lot worse!


 ::)

Offline lookout

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 01:23:PM »
as a proscuter most of the works done for you ver different with the defence.

the police find the witnesses for you and all the statements you have more less unlimted money and as most people plead guilty anyway most of the time you only have to turn up.






I agree nugs,it is much harder for the defence.

Offline lookout

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 01:30:PM »
I wonder why Rivlin represented JB ? Or who'd made the suggestion that he does ? He just let the prosecution ride roughshod over him,as happens when there's a poor defence anyway.

Offline David1819

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 01:32:PM »


I agree nugs,it is much harder for the defence.

Unless the defendant is very wealthy. OJ Simpson, Robert Durst to name a few.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 01:39:PM »
Unless the defendant is very wealthy. OJ Simpson, Robert Durst to name a few.

even then they haven't got more funds than the prosecution there just evenly matched.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 02:10:PM »

yes but most have a preference there normaly better at doing one than the other.

That is often true.


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2018, 02:24:PM »
According to Hayward. (Who's testimony was the Linchpin) It could either be Sheila's or RWB.

Sheila's blood and planted or RWBs blood and planted were both viable avenues. RWB had his own blood on him(obviously) They also had possetion of Sheila's bloodstained clothing also.
Patrick J Lincoln testified that the blood found in the silencer was specific to Sheila Caffell.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2018, 02:27:PM »
I wonder why Rivlin represented JB ? Or who'd made the suggestion that he does ? He just let the prosecution ride roughshod over him,as happens when there's a poor defence anyway.
He was second choice to George Carmen. It was said his soft-spoken flat Northern vowels hid a steely resolve, but I doubt a South-East England jury would have seen it that way.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2018, 03:23:PM »
He was second choice to George Carmen. It was said his soft-spoken flat Northern vowels hid a steely resolve, but I doubt a South-East England jury would have seen it that way.

George Carman would not have taken the case on legal aid.


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2018, 03:33:PM »
George Carman would not have taken the case on legal aid.
The excuse in Blood Relations was that he was too busy.

Offline lookout

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2018, 03:51:PM »
He was second choice to George Carmen. It was said his soft-spoken flat Northern vowels hid a steely resolve, but I doubt a South-East England jury would have seen it that way.






I wouldn't have been too sure about Carman either,somehow.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2018, 04:04:PM »
The excuse in Blood Relations was that he was too busy.

He always refused to accept a legal aid brief, and whenever asked his clerk would say he was "not available".   

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2018, 04:05:PM »
I think George Carmen would have made a better job but saw which way the wind was blowing. I was actually referring to Rivlin, though never heard Carmen speak even though he was born in Blackpool.