Author Topic: Ineffective assistance of counsel?  (Read 3449 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« on: February 10, 2018, 11:42:AM »
Rivlin's strategy IMO made it impossible for Jeremy to have a fair trial. By arguing the Sheila used the silencer before putting it away resulted in the judge instructing the jury to find Jeremy guilty.

Could Jeremy appeal against conviction on the ground that he suffered a miscarriage of justice as a result of defective representation? Jeremy did once write a letter of complaint to Sir David Napley.

Here are some legal extracts I found on the subject.


"In Winter v HMA 2002 SCCR 720, the Lord Justice Clerk, relying on E, reiterated that in order to succeed in an appeal based upon alleged defective representation, the appellant must show, not only that the instructed defence was not put forward, but also that the failure to do so meant that he was denied a fair trial."

"The United Kingdom ineffective assistance standard originated from case law. Initially, courts in the United Kingdom were concerned with the "extent of counsel's alleged ineptitude." Presently, the courts in the United Kingdom are primarily concerned with whether a miscarriage of justice" resulted from the counsel's conduct.'' More specifically, the courts are concerned with whether counsel's conduct was so prejudicial to the accused that it establishes that the accused did not have a fair trial."

"Hemphill v. H.M. Advocate. In Hemphill, the defendant argued that his solicitor failed to investigate the timing of the victim's death, consult or consider pathologist reports about the victim's time of death, and failed to question expert or forensic witnesses.  Rather than relying on information from experts, the solicitor cross-examined the Crown's pathologist based on the solicitor's own hypotheses. The High Court of Justiciary held that there had been a miscarriage of justice since counsel failed to investigate important forensic and pathological evidence. The Court found that if counsel had taken the appropriate steps, the defendant's defense would have been "significantly reinforced""





Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16860
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 11:52:AM »
he could such appeals very rarely work lawyers don't like being shown up incompetent.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 18057
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 12:08:PM »
Rivlin's strategy IMO made it impossible for Jeremy to have a fair trial. By arguing the Sheila used the silencer before putting it away resulted in the judge instructing the jury to find Jeremy guilty.

Could Jeremy appeal against conviction on the ground that he suffered a miscarriage of justice as a result of defective representation? Jeremy did once write a letter of complaint to Sir David Napley.

Here are some legal extracts I found on the subject.


"In Winter v HMA 2002 SCCR 720, the Lord Justice Clerk, relying on E, reiterated that in order to succeed in an appeal based upon alleged defective representation, the appellant must show, not only that the instructed defence was not put forward, but also that the failure to do so meant that he was denied a fair trial."

"The United Kingdom ineffective assistance standard originated from case law. Initially, courts in the United Kingdom were concerned with the "extent of counsel's alleged ineptitude." Presently, the courts in the United Kingdom are primarily concerned with whether a miscarriage of justice" resulted from the counsel's conduct.'' More specifically, the courts are concerned with whether counsel's conduct was so prejudicial to the accused that it establishes that the accused did not have a fair trial."

"Hemphill v. H.M. Advocate. In Hemphill, the defendant argued that his solicitor failed to investigate the timing of the victim's death, consult or consider pathologist reports about the victim's time of death, and failed to question expert or forensic witnesses.  Rather than relying on information from experts, the solicitor cross-examined the Crown's pathologist based on the solicitor's own hypotheses. The High Court of Justiciary held that there had been a miscarriage of justice since counsel failed to investigate important forensic and pathological evidence. The Court found that if counsel had taken the appropriate steps, the defendant's defense would have been "significantly reinforced""


But Sheila's blood was located in the silencer, which was impossible for him to explain away..

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48611
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 12:12:PM »
Was Rivlin like a fish out of water in his role as defence ?

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 32637
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 12:15:PM »
But Sheila's blood was located in the silencer, which was impossible for him to explain away..

Perhaps, in his heart of hearts, Rivlin thought Jeremy was guilty. Such a belief would surely colour his performance in the courtroom?

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27075
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 12:20:PM »
Was Rivlin like a fish out of water in his role as defence ?

He was a highly respected lawyer, not wet behind the ears. Most people on here spout on about what should or shouldn't have been mentioned, without having any real knowledge of the law (I've done it myself before anyone pipes up). There are rules to what can be brought up and the manner in which it is approached. Half the stuff dragged up here would have been objected to and would very likely have made the case against Bamber lot worse!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16860
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 12:27:PM »
Was Rivlin like a fish out of water in his role as defence ?

I don't think he had done a defence before he was a proscuter.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 32637
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 12:30:PM »
I don't think he had done a defence before he was a proscuter.


I thought one either trained to prosecute or defend. I hadn't realized that it was interchangeable.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48611
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 12:32:PM »
I don't think he had done a defence before he was a proscuter.






This is what I meant nugs. Once a prosecutor always a prosecutor.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48611
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 12:35:PM »
It's no wonder he befriended JB after the trial as he'd probably realised the error of his ways.? Why would you be friendly with someone who'd lost you the case ?

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 12:41:PM »

I thought one either trained to prosecute or defend. I hadn't realized that it was interchangeable.

It is the same qualification.  Many barristers both prosecute and defend.


Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 12:42:PM »
But Sheila's blood was located in the silencer, which was impossible for him to explain away..

According to Hayward. (Who's testimony was the Linchpin) It could either be Sheila's or RWB.

Sheila's blood and planted or RWBs blood and planted were both viable avenues. RWB had his own blood on him(obviously) They also had possetion of Sheila's bloodstained clothing also.

 



Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16860
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2018, 12:45:PM »





This is what I meant nugs. Once a prosecutor always a prosecutor.

id of thought if you were just starting in defence you begin with something small to start off with.

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16860
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 12:46:PM »
It is the same qualification.  Many barristers both prosecute and defend.


yes but most have a preference there normaly better at doing one than the other.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 32637
Re: Ineffective assistance of counsel?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2018, 12:51:PM »

yes but most have a preference there normaly better at doing one than the other.


I'm inclined to agree with that as I feel there may be a natural leaning to one or the other.