The Bible

[Kaldin]

I know that this has been discussed many times before, but I can't find a recent thread about it, so apologies for that.

For me, the Bible does point the finger at Jeremy. If we are to believe the people who said there was no blood on Sheila's palms, how did the blood get on the Bible? Did anyone test that blood to make sure it was Sheila's blood? If she put the Bible there, it couldn't have been her blood - she couldn't have put her hands on it after she'd shot herself. On the other hand, if Jeremy shot Sheila, would he not have made sure that he didn't leave any blood on the Bible?

[Caroline]

I know that this has been discussed many times before, but I can't find a recent thread about it, so apologies for that.

For me, the Bible does point the finger at Jeremy. If we are to believe the people who said there was no blood on Sheila's palms, how did the blood get on the Bible? Did anyone test that blood to make sure it was Sheila's blood? If she put the Bible there, it couldn't have been her blood - she couldn't have put her hands on it after she'd shot herself. On the other hand, if Jeremy shot Sheila, would he not have made sure that he didn't leave any blood on the Bible?

I believe the bible was part of Jeremy's staging but he changed his mind - I think he may have initially set the scene as below, but decided it looked too staged.

[Steve_uk]

I know that this has been discussed many times before, but I can't find a recent thread about it, so apologies for that.

For me, the Bible does point the finger at Jeremy. If we are to believe the people who said there was no blood on Sheila's palms, how did the blood get on the Bible? Did anyone test that blood to make sure it was Sheila's blood? If she put the Bible there, it couldn't have been her blood - she couldn't have put her hands on it after she'd shot herself. On the other hand, if Jeremy shot Sheila, would he not have made sure that he didn't leave any blood on the Bible?

This is certainly not Essex Police's finest hour: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

Mike has a thread here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4296.0.html

[Steve_uk]

I believe the bible was part of Jeremy's staging but he changed his mind - I think he may have initially set the scene as below, but decided it looked too staged.

Didn't Julie say Matthew had placed a bible on her chest?

[Kaldin]

If that was Sheila's blood on the Bible, she couldn't have put it there. She didn't move after she was shot the first time, so she can't have picked up the bible, let alone shut it and then opened it again at the right page. The blood didn't get there from the blood running from Sheila's throat either.

If it was not her blood, she could have put it there before she died, but then the reports say that she had no blood on the palm of her hands. 

[Steve_uk]

If that was Sheila's blood on the Bible, she couldn't have put it there. She didn't move after she was shot the first time, so she can't have picked up the bible, let alone shut it and then opened it again at the right page. The blood didn't get there from the blood running from Sheila's throat either.

If it was not her blood, she could have put it there before she died, but then the reports say that she had no blood on the palm of her hands.

Jeremy could have staged the scene as he wished. Sheila could have brought the bible in from her room, but I agree with what you say.

[Kaldin]

Then there's the question of the Bible resting on top of her upper arm. The key to that depends on whether she was sitting up before she was shot, or she shot herself. If she was, and then fell back, the Bible could not have ended up on top of her arm. I've previously said that I think she was sitting up when she was shot, but now I'm not so sure. There's no sign of the blood from the wounds going in a downward direction, it went to her right, but then I don't know how long it would take for the blood to start flowing after the shot.

[Caroline]

If that was Sheila's blood on the Bible, she couldn't have put it there. She didn't move after she was shot the first time, so she can't have picked up the bible, let alone shut it and then opened it again at the right page. The blood didn't get there from the blood running from Sheila's throat either.

If it was not her blood, she could have put it there before she died, but then the reports say that she had no blood on the palm of her hands.

I don't think she did put there.

[Adam]

I know that this has been discussed many times before, but I can't find a recent thread about it, so apologies for that.

For me, the Bible does point the finger at Jeremy. If we are to believe the people who said there was no blood on Sheila's palms, how did the blood get on the Bible? Did anyone test that blood to make sure it was Sheila's blood? If she put the Bible there, it couldn't have been her blood - she couldn't have put her hands on it after she'd shot herself. On the other hand, if Jeremy shot Sheila, would he not have made sure that he didn't leave any blood on the Bible?

I've asked these questions before. Feel free to give answers -

Did Sheila read the bible ? A source please.

Would Sheila not have brought her own bible to WHF ?

Did Sheila  get her extreme religious views from the bible. If so, which part ?

Did Sheila have her own religious books which gave her extreme religious views ?

If Sheila didn't read anything religious, or bring anything to WHF,  how did she get her extreme religious views.

Did Sheila bring her own religious books to WHF. If not, why not ?

If Sheila had her own religious books, why didn't she use one of these prior to committing suicide ?

If Sheila didn't bring her own religious books to WHF and did not read any, why was the bible next to her ?

Is it common for religious people who have committed suicide, to read the bible beforehand ?

Was Sheila calm and controlled enough to decide to get the bible before committing suicide ?

Was the light in the main bedroom on for Sheila to read the bible ?

Would Sheila not read the bible in her own bedroom prior to opening fire if the murder/suicide was pre medidated ?

Did Sheila know where the bible was ?

Would Sheila read her mothers bible, who she had just killed ?

What page was the bible left open at . Did it relate to pre suicide reading ?

Why was blood on the bible pages as Sheila read it before shooting herself ?

If Sheila didn't read the bible after collecting it, before committing suicide, why did she bother going to get it ?

How did the bible end up on top of Sheila's blood on the carpet (TAC) ?

Would Sheila only decide to get the bible after killing four other people ?

When did Sheila write the alleged suicide note inside the bible ?

There are now claims of a suicide note in Sheila's bedroom. Are the CT going to withdraw claims a suicide note was in the bible ?

Did Bamber know about June's bible ?

Would Bamber putting the bible next to Sheila support a religious murder/suicide theory ?

Would Bamber be in control enough to put the bible next to Sheila ?

Does the bible support suicide ?

Does the bible support murder ?

Does the bible support ritualistic cleansing ? 

Could Sheila read the bible in the dark ?

Why did Sheila shoot herself once upstairs. Read the bible and then go downstairs ? As claimed by the OS.

Was Bob Miller correct when he said Bamber 'left the bible next to Sheila for the police's benefit'.

[Kaldin]

That's a lot of questions Adam, and I can't possible deal with all of them. Perhaps the Bible was on the bed or on the bedside table - June might have been reading it before she went to sleep. Colin Caffell seemed to think that Sheila was preoccupied with religion did he not? She got her views from her mother of course when she was growing up. She might not have shared them at the time, but with the onset of schizophrenia that could have changed. 

I've never claimed that Sheila shot herself once, and then went downstairs. In fact, that couldn't have happened, otherwise the blood stains on her would be different. I'm puzzled by those blood stains actually but that's for another thread.

Is it certain that the blood underneath the Bible is Sheila's? Did they test the blood on the Bible to see if it was Sheila's? If they did not, that was a big mistake as it could have clinched it.

The most interesting question you asked was about whether the light was on in the bedroom, but that's probably also for another thread.

[Kaldin]

I don't think she did put there.

Are you going to elaborate on that Caroline?

[Adam]

Obviously Sheila read the bible after killing 4 people.

Was she looking for redemption.  Is there a section in the bible about redemption after murder ?

If the bedroom light was off, how did Sheila read the bible. Or did she read it & then turn the light off ? That means she did everything between 3.36am - 3.48am.

There should not be one drop of blood on the bible.

[guest2181]

Obviously Sheila read the bible after killing 4 people.

Was she looking for redemption.  Is there a section in the bible about redemption after murder ?

If the bedroom light was off, how did Sheila read the bible. Or did she read it & then turn the light off ? That means she did everything between 3.36am - 3.48am.

There should not be one drop of blood on the bible.

With Sheila's 'palms being free from blood staining', the blood on the bible either can't belong to her, or it was stained with her blood after she died.

The position of the bible is suspect. Positioned by somebody else, the killer or the police?

[Kaldin]

Obviously Sheila read the bible after killing 4 people.

Was she looking for redemption ? Is there a section in the bible about redemption after murder.

If the bedroom light was off, how did Sheila read the bible ? Or did she read it & then turn the light off.

There should not be one drop of blood on the bible.

Why do you say she read it? I don't think the page the Bible was open at is particularly significant. Either Jeremy or Sheila could have opened the Bible at a random page. If Jeremy did it, how did he know so much about the Bible anyway?

I've been saying that if Sheila did it, her blood should not be on the Bible. The blood of someone else could be on it on though. I can't find any reference to anyone checking to see whose blood that belonged to, so I have to assume that it wasn't checked - very sloppy work.

Clearly, the lights must have been on when the murders were being committed, and some lights were still on when the police arrived. I'm trying to establish exactly which lights were on.

[Kaldin]

With Sheila's 'palms being free from blood staining', the blood on the bible either can't belong to her, or it was stained with her blood after she died.

The position of the bible is suspect. Positioned by somebody else, the killer or the police?

There are some statements by one or more police officers who think that the Bible was not in that position when they first saw it.

If Sheila really didn't have blood on her palms, the only way she could have put the Bible there is if she picked it up, opened it, left blood on it, closed it again, went and washed her hands, and then opened the Bible again at the same page.