Author Topic: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?  (Read 39740 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #165 on: January 21, 2018, 09:21:PM »
In a nutshell, the earth is more likely to be relatively flat, as opposed to being a globe module...
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Offline Reader

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #166 on: January 21, 2018, 09:51:PM »
Mike, you wrote "Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time!"

I asserted that putting the words "right" and "wrong" in the same sentence and ending that sentence with an exclamation mark doesn't imply that the situation is impossible.

Your reply to that was "from 'a perspective stance' it would".

Should your sentence "Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time!" be interpreted using that stance? If not, why did you mention it?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:05:PM by Reader »

Offline Reader

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #167 on: January 21, 2018, 11:04:PM »
A NASA Expert, claims that the moon rotates around the earth twice as fast as the earth is supposed to travel around the sun...
You're slightly misquoting him. However, what he said was poorly worded. His exact words are immaterial, but it's easy to understand what he meant.

As the equator is roughly 25,000 miles long, someone on the equator is being carried round the earth (due to the earth's rotation) at roughly 1040 mph on average.

The moon's orbit is roughly 1,500,000 miles long and one orbit takes nearly 4 weeks, so the moon's orbital speed is about 2288 mph on average, which is somewhat more than double 1040 mph. Describing this as "twice as fast" in casual conversation is acceptable. However, I don't know the wider context in which the remark was made, and possibly this comparison, though roughly correct, wasn't appropriate in relation to what the NASA guy was trying to explain.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #168 on: January 22, 2018, 08:32:AM »
Mike, you wrote "Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time!" but not physically the right way up and the wrong way up from one person's perspective, the key understanding being that right and wrong in this concept requiring at least two different perspectives, or more - if we use a clear glass ball as representing the globe earth module, and we position two people 'north' and 'south' at 180° a part on the same plane, and two other people at 'East' and 'West' on a plane at a 90° angle in / to the first example (gravity being located at the centre of the clear glass ball). Now, in an imaginary situation, of let's say a person being at the hub of gravity looking outward at the various locations /  points of interest ('north', 'south', 'east' and 'west') he sees the following orientation if at the hub he is standing upright with his head facing 'north' and his feet toward 'south' - the person stood at 'north' is standing upright or the right way up; the person standing at the position 'south' is standing upside down; the person standing at the 'east' position is standing sideways on, with their feet closest to the hub and can be said to be standing left to right; the fourth person standing sideways on, with their feet closest to the hub of the earth and can be said to be standing right to left. This would be the reality of the situation from the persons perspective at the hub of the earth!

However, the orientation of the person at 'north', 'south', 'east' and 'west' would be different if the person at the hub was standing upside down, or sideways on ('west' to 'east'), or sideways on ('east' to 'west')! The possible orientation of people standing at 'north', 'south', 'east', 'west' and at 'the hub' itself would be countless and variable in a world where any person could be standing the right way up, upside down, sideways on, and sideways on, at one and the same time from someone else's perspective...

The imaginary orientations could not all apply to the perspective of the person standing at 'north', 'south', ' east'  'west' or at 'the hub', at one and the same time, therefore, be right and wrong at one and the same time in a earth is a globe module! Of course there is no such complication in a flat earth module, since everyone no matter where they were standing in relation to any other person, or number of other people, would all be deemed to be standing upright along with everybody else who would also be standing upright

I asserted that putting the words "right" and "wrong" in the same sentence and ending that sentence with an exclamation mark doesn't imply that the situation is impossible. it does for a person, an object or a thing in one place on any event horizon for that persons, that object, or that things perspective!

Your reply to that was "from 'a perspective stance' it would".

Should your sentence "Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time!" be interpreted using that stance? If not, why did you mention it? from a single person's perspective, his orientation could not be 'the right way up', 'upside down', 'sideways on', (this way), 'sideways on' (that way)at one and the same time!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:26:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #169 on: January 22, 2018, 11:55:AM »
if at the hub he is standing upright with his head facing 'north' and his feet toward 'south'
In the globe model, "down" and "up" refer to the directions directly towards and away from the hub (centre of gravity) of the globe, and therefore depend on where the observer is, rather than being the same for all observers, so you have to provide some arbitrary definition (as you did) of "upright" for a hypothetical observer positioned at the hub. It's easy to see that nothing impossible or even strange is occurring in the globe module. You just get minor complications of wording when you describe a bunch of observers at different locations. If two such observers arrive at the same location, their "up" and "down" directions match.

In the globe model, a person standing on the equator "flips over" once per day from the point of view of some imaginary observer who isn't rotating with the earth. From the point of view of the person on the equator, they haven't flipped at all, but the sun, moon and stars seem to be rotating round them. Neither observer has any reason to assert that the globe model is impossible or implausible. However, such observers might prefer to say that they are rotating with the earth, and also with respect to each other. There's nothing illogical or absurd about that, especially in the hypothetical situation of the earth being transparent.

You've yet to explain what people are seeing in the sky when they directly observe the International Space Station (which anyone can do). On the next occasion when there's a clear sky, why not look out for it yourself?

Offline petey

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #170 on: January 22, 2018, 12:36:PM »
How about just keeping things simple to start with.

On a conventional flat map, the USA lies to the West of England and Russia lies to the East. Is this correct?

Importantly, do you believe that the USA and Russia are only separated by approx. 51 miles by the Bering Strait? Or has this been made up?

Or if they are separated by only approx. 51 miles, how can this be possible in a flat earth model?

Maybe I should blame my Geography teachers for my apparent ignorance!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:37:PM by petey »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #171 on: January 22, 2018, 12:52:PM »
In the globe model, "down" and "up" refer to the directions directly towards and away from the hub (centre of gravity) of the globe, and therefore depend on where the observer is, rather than being the same for all observers, so you have to provide some arbitrary definition (as you did) of "upright" for a hypothetical observer positioned at the hub. There is no such need for a hypothetical observer in the flat earth module, where 'up' and 'Down' apply to all observers no matter where they might be on the flat earths stage!It's easy to see that nothing impossible or even strange is occurring in the globe module. but, that's just the point, non of this phenomenon can be detectable in an earth is a globe module, it's all hypothetical, with no way of proving that people on the opposite side of the world in a globe earth module stand, walk and live upside down, or that other people standing, operate and live sideways on (in one direction or another)! In a flat earth module, no such hypothetical scenario falls to be considered... You just get minor complications of wording when you describe a bunch of observers at different locations. I accept that / this... If two such observers arrive at the same location, their "up" and "down" directions match. yes, as they do in the flat earth module, but with the added reassurance that even when two such observers do not meet up at the same location, both observers have the exact same 'up' and 'down' orientation! In the globe model, a person standing on the equator "flips over" once per day from the point of view of some imaginary observer who isn't rotating with the earth. In contrast, in a flat earth module, no-one 'flips' or rotates on a spinning earth...From the point of view of the person on the equator, they haven't flipped at all, because they can't physically 'flip' and don't physically 'flip' in a flat earth module.. but the sun, moon and stars seem to be rotating round them. that is, because they are as per the flat earth module.. Neither observer has any reason to assert that the globe model is impossible or implausible. because it is not..However, such observers might prefer to say that they are rotating with the earth, and also with respect to each other. The earth is not a globe that spins at around 1000 MPH upon its axis! It can't be true, people, animals, insects, birds, fish, aeroplanes, motor cars, and boats, cannot possibly exist, operate or function in different orientations upon the surface of the earth! The earth is static, it was created by God in this way according to scripture. It's static, and the great lights (sun and the moon) rotate above the earth in and around the firmament which cause daylight hours, and hours of darkness upon different areas of the flat earth, the sun, the moon and the other planets and star constellations rotate with precise accuracy around 'the north Star' which is fixed in the firmament! There's nothing illogical or absurd about that, especially in the hypothetical situation of the earth being transparent. But, that's just the thing, insofar as the earth being formed in the image of a globe module, everything is far from being transparent, whereas, adopting the flat earth module ticks all the boxes of logic and truth... You've yet to explain what people are seeing in the sky when they directly observe the International Space Station (which anyone can do). One thing is self evident, and this must be that the ISS is simply rotating above the static earth as in the flat earth module, round and round, just like the sun, the moon, and planets, and stars rotate around the 'north star' in the firmament...On the next occasion when there's a clear sky, why not look out for it yourself? I shall try to...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:58:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #172 on: January 22, 2018, 01:05:PM »



I don't recall that God's word provides lectures in astrophysics -nor do I have recall of Him having said that the world spins on it's axis at 1000 mph -certainly no one here has. Perhaps it's just that those who wrote down his words had no understanding of it.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #173 on: January 22, 2018, 04:11:PM »
I am very interested in some moon video footage which appears to show star constellation behind the surface of the moon, as if the moon itself might not be a solid body of evidence...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #174 on: January 22, 2018, 04:13:PM »
I am also bemused by the fact that in daylight images where the moon has been captured in the day time sky, that it is against a background of blue sky?

I thought it was dark in space?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #175 on: January 22, 2018, 04:15:PM »
Oh, and then there are occasions where we have the moon (in whatever phase) in the same region of the sky with the sun close by in that part of the sky?

I thought the earth contributed to the shape of the moon out in the so called space?
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Offline buddy

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #176 on: January 22, 2018, 04:16:PM »
Fuck sakes it's round. Can you name another planet that's flat?
Lets get rid of this stupid thread.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #177 on: January 22, 2018, 04:19:PM »
And, then there is also the fact that in some video footage of the moon in the sky, clouds have been to pass in front and behind the moon?


How can that be true...
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #178 on: January 22, 2018, 04:20:PM »
Fuck sakes it's round. Can you name another planet that's flat?
Lets get rid of this stupid thread.

No, its not round, as you put it, its fundamentally flat...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?
« Reply #179 on: January 22, 2018, 04:34:PM »
No, its not round, as you put it, its fundamentally flat...

You're right. It's ellipsoid.