Author Topic: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.  (Read 353 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jan

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9387
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2017, 05:50:PM »
No point. Just confirming a 'crazy' Sheila accurately fired 25 bullets into 5 people. In expert locations. David's diagram shows the accurrate shots into Nevill were from several feet away. Which refutes the publish evidence.

This was after Bamber had fully loaded a rifle but not put the silencer on. Meaning he could only fire one shot before the rabbits would disperse. Sheila later picking up the rifle after Bamber, Nevill & June had not put it away.

It's a sound moderator. Would you expect someone to shoot multiple rabbits at one time ?

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4624
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2017, 09:36:PM »
There certainly is a point with subsonic ammunition.  A sound moderator is very effective, more so than with high velocity (i.e. supersonic) ammunition, as the sound moderator does not reduce the "crack" made by a supersonic bullet, it only suppresses the muzzle boom.

"The reconstruction was held on an Army range after the court took a 28-mile drive in a police escorted convoy so that firearms expert Malcolm Fletcher could demonstrate the gun. The Chelmsford Crown Court jury of seven men and five women had asked to hear the sound of shots fired from the semi-automatic weapon. Mr Fletcher fired the un-silenced rifle five times into a huge block of soap which absorbed the impact of the bullets. Then he fired four times with the silencer in place. There appeared to be very little difference."
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4590
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2017, 10:20:PM »
"The reconstruction was held on an Army range after the court took a 28-mile drive in a police escorted convoy so that firearms expert Malcolm Fletcher could demonstrate the gun. The Chelmsford Crown Court jury of seven men and five women had asked to hear the sound of shots fired from the semi-automatic weapon. Mr Fletcher fired the un-silenced rifle five times into a huge block of soap which absorbed the impact of the bullets. Then he fired four times with the silencer in place. There appeared to be very little difference."

I do not know where that quote is from.  There is quite a lot of difference, although I accept that a .22 LR firing subsonic ammunition is not very loud even without a silencer.  It is significantly quieter with a silencer, not much more than a loud click.


Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4624
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2017, 10:45:PM »
I do not know where that quote is from.  There is quite a lot of difference, although I accept that a .22 LR firing subsonic ammunition is not very loud even without a silencer.  It is significantly quieter with a silencer, not much more than a loud click.

If that is from your own experience, maybe that's due to present-time propellants and silencer?

Some silencers now can make a .45 ACP very silent. Watch this https://youtu.be/3Lsx0WAetsI?t=41s


But if you watch Philip Boyce experiments there is not much difference https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=1m37s
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38976
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 03:07:PM »
I do not know where that quote is from.  There is quite a lot of difference, although I accept that a .22 LR firing subsonic ammunition is not very loud even without a silencer.  It is significantly quieter with a silencer, not much more than a loud click.

For what it's worth, my experience of being present during experiments / tests carried out at Birdwell Armoury, junction 36 gun club,where the same type of .22 LR Eley subsonic Hollow point ammunition was fired through a duplicate model anshuzt semi-automatic rifle, both with and minus a 17 baffles Parker Hale Silencer, I would describe the noise/sound accompanying the discharge as two versions of 'a click', where the click in question is more solid audibly, a click which is noticeably less solid when the silencer was fitted and a corresponding shot was fired!!!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4590
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2017, 12:41:PM »
If that is from your own experience, maybe that's due to present-time propellants and silencer?

Some silencers now can make a .45 ACP very silent. Watch this https://youtu.be/3Lsx0WAetsI?t=41s


But if you watch Philip Boyce experiments there is not much difference https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=1m37s

It is difficult to get a real view from a recording.

I have regularly used similar weapons and ammunition to that used at WHF, including at the time of the murders.   

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38976
Re: For those who believe Nevill was shot in bed.
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2017, 10:27:PM »
It is difficult to get a real view from a recording.

I have regularly used similar weapons and ammunition to that used at WHF, including at the time of the murders.

One think which struck me, when test firing at Birdwell Armoury took place, using a duplicate model 525 semi automatic rifle, a 17 baffles Parker hale silencer, and .22 LR subsonic ammunition, was that the noise or rapport from the firing of such a weapon with that type of ammunition was not very loud at all, it was like a dull clicking sound, both with and without the silencer! Of course, it should also be mentioned that on occasions when I remained in the shooting range office I heard no sound at all! When I spoke to Smith and Mallinson about this phenomena, they explained to me that when a shot is fired say in one room of a house, the sound becomes absorbed by the furnishings, and the decor including the curtains at windows and may not be heard in neighbouring rooms of the same building! Therefore, shots fired in the main bedroom might not be heard let's say in the bedroom where the children were sleeping, or vice versa! This does not rely on a silencer being fitted! A shot fired in the kitchen of the farmhouse, would not necessarily be heard upstairs in the main bedroom, or vice versa, for the same reason!

The gist of what I am saying is that there certain was no need to use a silencer with the rifle in the shootings, no matter who the shooter was, or might be!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...