Author Topic: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?  (Read 116 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23986
!s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« on: August 02, 2017, 06:24:PM »
Several men have, today, been found guilty of planning the kind of appalling terrorist activity in which Lee Rigby was decapitated. Their counsel claimed that Police planted the tools necessary to carry out such a heinous crime, in order to frame them -is this beginning to sound familiar- not that it would be the first time they'd been found guilty of terrorist activities.
 I wonder what is the general feeling here? I know the majority say NCC is entirely wrong under any circumstances. Should these men have been given the benefit of the doubt and possibly been allowed to inflict mutilation and death on another person -MAYBE someone one of us know, OR, God forbid, a family member, or, even if underhand methods were used to obtain their conviction, was it justified? 

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9022
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 06:36:PM »
Several men have, today, been found guilty of planning the kind of appalling terrorist activity in which Lee Rigby was decapitated. Their counsel claimed that Police planted the tools necessary to carry out such a heinous crime, in order to frame them -is this beginning to sound familiar- not that it would be the first time they'd been found guilty of terrorist activities.
 I wonder what is the general feeling here? I know the majority say NCC is entirely wrong under any circumstances. Should these men have been given the benefit of the doubt and possibly been allowed to inflict mutilation and death on another person -MAYBE someone one of us know, OR, God forbid, a family member, or, even if underhand methods were used to obtain their conviction, was it justified?
I don't have any doubts over this particular case. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/02/three-musketeers-convicted-of-plotting-terrorist-attack

Every case should be decided on its own merits. http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/25/five-terror-plots-thwarted-since-westminster-attack-in-march-6661876/

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23986

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20171
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 03:34:AM »
Interesting that no one else has commented  ;) ;D
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Jon2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9022
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 10:15:AM »
As usual the Establishment plays for time, hoping the perpetrators will be dead by the time the case is resolved. One option might have been for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission as pertained in South Africa at the end of apartheid. Another would have been for Sinn Fein to release the names of the murderers before the Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998.

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23986
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 02:29:PM »
Interesting that no one else has commented  ;) ;D

Isn't it just? It's certainly telling.

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4546
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 04:46:PM »
Isn't it just? It's certainly telling.

So called noble cause corruption is never justified in my view.  Police get it wrong, whether through genuine error or through malice.

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23986
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 06:18:PM »
So called noble cause corruption is never justified in my view.  Police get it wrong, whether through genuine error or through malice.

I think we're looking at this from entirely different perspectives, Neil. Objectively, I can only acknowledge that what you say is correct to the letter of the law and I agree with what you say, HOWEVER, and using this latest case of the Three Musketeers planning a Lee Rigby style atrocity, but their lawyer claiming the police had framed them, would any of us have felt safe knowing that they were free. Suppose we lived in their community? Supposing, once they were free, one of our -MY- family lays, decapitated? Suddenly it isn't OBjective. It's SUBjective and it feels very different. Suddenly, whilst I KNOW that NCC is wrong, I don't FEEL it and I wish, like hell, that it had been practiced.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13016
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 07:57:PM »
I think we're looking at this from entirely different perspectives, Neil. Objectively, I can only acknowledge that what you say is correct to the letter of the law and I agree with what you say, HOWEVER, and using this latest case of the Three Musketeers planning a Lee Rigby style atrocity, but their lawyer claiming the police had framed them, would any of us have felt safe knowing that they were free. Suppose we lived in their community? Supposing, once they were free, one of our -MY- family lays, decapitated? Suddenly it isn't OBjective. It's SUBjective and it feels very different. Suddenly, whilst I KNOW that NCC is wrong, I don't FEEL it and I wish, like hell, that it had been practiced.
I haven't commented because I have only just come back onto the forum. 
I believe the law has to always be objective, that is the only way to keep personal opinions etc out of the criminal justice system. 
Of course no one wants such a horrendous crime to be perpetrated on anyone but it's the only way to try to keep corruption at bay. 

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23986
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 08:28:PM »
I haven't commented because I have only just come back onto the forum. 
I believe the law has to always be objective, that is the only way to keep personal opinions etc out of the criminal justice system. 
Of course no one wants such a horrendous crime to be perpetrated on anyone but it's the only way to try to keep corruption at bay.

I can perfectly well see what sort of almighty mess COULD occur if it was any other way, but I would be willing to allow a term of every crime being tried individually and making punishment fit crime.


Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9022
Re: !s Noble Cause Corruption Ever Acceptable?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 11:03:AM »
https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/45096/Gareth+Peirce+says+there+are+serious+questions+over+the+Birmingham+terror+trial

When this lady speaks , listen .
These trials are a money-spinner for the lawyers, just as Brexit is turning out to be. Ali Hussain was a gas fitter and the pipe bomb he had partially made was consistent with his handiwork. Of course we are reliant on Police telling the truth in court, but haven't they got enough to do than plant videos on terrorism on their mobile phones?

They should never have been let out of prison in the first place. Have the indeterminate sentences introduced under Blair now been scrapped?